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Snoop
Since the Moore vs Jones thread has become a debate about weightlifting, well at least some of it, I thought it would be a good idea to just start a forum about training/boxing exercises. I usually go on another board for that but a lot of the posters are douches. Since it seems like many of the posters have experience in it and enjoy discussing it, why don't we? Thoughts?
BigG
I'd love that. Being an amateur boxer myself who's always in the gym, I'd love to hear some tips stories from you guys.
Spyder
We should call it...VK3do Dedication Forum.
Snoop
QUOTE(Spyder @ Feb 5 2009, 08:55 PM) [snapback]423971[/snapback]
We should call it...VK3do Dedication Forum.

laugh.gif

The ULTIMATE trainer.
Snoop
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Feb 5 2009, 08:51 PM) [snapback]423970[/snapback]
I'd love that. Being an amateur boxer myself who's always in the gym, I'd love to hear some tips stories from you guys.

You think there's any way you could use your mod powers to start a new forum?
BigG
Unfortunately not, only Hype, Jack, Akay can do that.
Snoop
Maybe pass a word up the ranks then?
stillperpetuallygrooving
one of the best, and perhaps underrated training technique to increase punching power AND speed is the cable machine. do one arm at a time. hold the grip in a fist, and then simply "pretend punch" with the newly added resistance...you can do jabs, hooks, uppercuts, etc...start at a weight in which you can throw the desired punch at least 25-30 times, do 3-4 sets, increasing the weight each time and doing less repititions (this is known as the "pyramid technique")...always stay true to punching form, as it is the most important factor in gaining speed and strength, not to mention avoiding injury...in a matter of weeks you will notice significant POP on your punches....

once you get your punching form down pat with the cables, spice things up a little bit and confuse your muscles...do both arms at the same time and throw combinations...one week do high reps/low weight, the next do low reps/high weight....

oh yeah, not only does it help speed and power for the intermediate and advanced pugilist, it also helps new boxers learn the proper technique on how to throw a punch, thus giving them correct "muscle memory" for their future boxing career...

im a genius i know, go ahead and verify how great of an exercise this is, yeah i know i made it up, AND YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST...
JonnyBlaze
I like this thread..Good idea..I'll write some good tips later..

Are we talkin technique or work outs or both??
Snoop
QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Feb 6 2009, 02:58 AM) [snapback]424032[/snapback]
I like this thread..Good idea..I'll write some good tips later..

Are we talkin technique or work outs or both??

Well my whole idea was to get another forum started but wanted to show that there would be support for it from the posters. But if you wanna start here, be my guest. It just might get all tangled up is all.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Fitz @ Feb 5 2009, 10:01 PM) [snapback]424033[/snapback]
As long as you don't say other good tips are wrong.

I'll post wherever I want and say whatever I want..

If someone says to shadow box with 10 lb. weights(example,not literal),I'll definitely say it's wrong and I'll be keepin you healthy for saying it instead of having you go try it and fuck your shoulder up..I wouldn't comment on a tip that I have no idea about..Like StillPer's tip,I don't know about it and I may not do it but it could help some of you guys and could be a cool thing to try out..

Snoop,it would be cool to get another forum started for this..I'll talk to Percy about it..For starters,lets begin here..



JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Fitz @ Feb 5 2009, 10:33 PM) [snapback]424045[/snapback]
Cool, so in your opinion Holyfield is wrong. Thanks. I will know from now.

Holy was a lot faster when he wasn't using weights..The weights helped him convert to a heavyweight since his body was always naturally smaller..
D-MARV
Are we having another debate about weight lifting?

Let's not forget that the hottest names in the sport do lift... Mosley is one of them.
King Eugene
I cant do it cause they blocked it at work but if you go to youtube and type in The Sweet Science (an ESPN Special they had on Roy after the Ruiz fight) it will show clips of Jones working out with Mackie which he was also lifting weights. That son of a gun didn't look slow in the Ruiz fight to me.
JonnyBlaze
Rowing is one of the best exercises for any boxer..All the best fighters of the past did rowing and I bet some still do today..I use a rowing machine that has a resistant chain connected to it..I do one pull of it to my belly button with arms against my side,than a pull right below my chest and let my arms go out naturally and than a pull to my throat with my elbows bent and at shoulder level..Do 2-3 minutes of this as fast as you can..You can do an extra round or 2 if you want..You also want to make sure you go all the way forward after a pull so you really work your legs a lot..These are killers if you do em right..Full body work out and will boost your stamina up a lot..

Sprints----Get on a treadmill and for starters do 4 sets of these..Run on either 10(I'd suggest 10 for most people),12,or 15 for a minute straight and rest for a minute(or a little longer if you're tired) than keep repeating this..Once you get better,add on another set or 2..Once you keep improving after that,add on a half of a minute or another minute if you wanna push yourself but I wouldn't recommend adding any more sets of yet..Once you get to sprinting 2 minutes for 4-6 sets,than you can add more sets on..This will take a long time to improve to the next level since these sprints will kill you if you're not used to these kind of interval training methods..

If ya guys like this stuff,I'll add more work outs on here..Boxing tips are hard to give over the internet but I'll attempt this another time..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(3King3 @ Feb 6 2009, 01:10 AM) [snapback]424069[/snapback]
I cant do it cause they blocked it at work but if you go to youtube and type in The Sweet Science (an ESPN Special they had on Roy after the Ruiz fight) it will show clips of Jones working out with Mackie which he was also lifting weights. That son of a gun didn't look slow in the Ruiz fight to me.

I actually have the dvd of him training for his second fight with Tarver..Heart of the Champion I think it's called..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Fitz @ Feb 6 2009, 03:48 AM) [snapback]424089[/snapback]







hahaha..Nice try Fitz!!That shit would take ages to do what even 1 minute of what this rowing machine does(for a boxer's benefits)..Our row machine is resistance,not weights..I'm glad you posted those things though so I can tell ya all,do not go fast with any of those things he posted..This rowing machine I use is resistance and is meant for very fast speeds and you need to strap your feet into feet holders to allow you to go even faster(I make the machine shake)..The seat on the row machine also moves back and forth very far for people of different height..To do the rows that you showed,you are using your legs but it isn't going to build a lot of stamina by just standing while holding weights..This makes you bend your knees as far as you can while moving in and getting the chain/cable to get become resistant again since it becomes loose after pulling it out far..

My friend tried the row machine today and could only do 1 minute before being completely winded..This shit will increase stamina A LOT!!I have seen people puke after 2 minutes on it..It's no joke..I'll try to find a picture of it..
JonnyBlaze
Row machine
JonnyBlaze
Fitz,ya notice how all these guys have stiff backs??Well with this rowing machine you get you back into the motion like you are really rowing..Do you think someone is going to row a boat or anything the way that the one dude in the first picture is rowing with weights??hahaha..Archie Moore is one of the many guys I can refer to who would actually get in a real boat and row as fast as he could for however long as he did it for..Joe Louis did too..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Fitz @ Feb 6 2009, 04:13 AM) [snapback]424092[/snapback]
It works the same muscles, and you do know that resistance can be used with weights?

I'm not saying anything is wrong with rowing, it's great for cardio as well. But it is ridiculous to suggest that weights aren't good. You can do every exercise I posted at very light weight and high repetition and a high tempo and then mix it with heavier lifting to gain more strength.
I used the row machine as well for cardio, though I do cable rows a lot also, and it's more for strength. I don't know why you think that is body building.

Forget the weight shit,nothing I posted about was about weights so why do you gotta keep at this shit??No one should use the row machine that first dude is using and go fast with it(or atleast no where near as fast as the row machine I am recommending..This row machine will work your lungs just as hard as if you were sprinting..Make sure to go as fast as you can on it too to maximize benefits in the 2 minutes(for starters)..3 minutes for advanced people..Also,make sure to do the 3 motions I posted to get every single muscle in your body used..

Check out the machine..
Spyder
Fitz...the problem with weights is they increase fatigue...it sucks, but it's true.

Bigger muscles require more oxygen.
thehype
You got it. Training Tips forum is up and located in the Other Hype section. I'll move this thread over there.
Spyder
Thanks Hype!

thumbsup_anim.gif
Spyder
QUOTE(Fitz @ Feb 6 2009, 10:05 AM) [snapback]424112[/snapback]
I agree to an extent, it really depends on the type of program you use though.

I would LOVE to see Mackie's workout program...that guy is a genius. No doubt!
The CEO
New section....cool....

Let me add my 2 cents....I haven't done a push up in 5 years and am built like a post prime, Larry Holmes...lol

Spyder
laugh.gif

I guess that's better than Butterbean...

Box in Hand
Ok, since weights are introduced here, I'll give my opinion. There is nothing wrong with weight training for fighters. The quickest human I have ever seen used weights at least 4 time a week (Bruce Lee). Check out his book, The Art of Expressing the Human Body. My suggestion is you have to run and you have to stretch or you will become stiff. I have sparred with a lot of guys who lift weights and they are the easiest people to beat. They aren't flexible and their arms get tired after 1 or two rounds. You should also add swimming if you're going to lift weights. Here's my regiment

1. Run, Mackie Shilstone has a great routine that simulates an actual fight, he has the fighters run once around the field then sprint as hard as they can. This helps because in fights you will speed up and slow down.
2. Shadow box, this is for speed, flexibility, and to work on your technique.
3. Bag work, the heavy bag helps with distance and power. Always use a boxing timer to simulate an actual round.
4. Speed bag, works reflexes and speed.
5. Resistance cords, also works speed.
6. Sparring, this is very important because this is where you test your mettle. This is where you learn if what you learned will work.
7. Yoga or Pilates, This may make some laugh but the more flexible fighter is usally the better fighter. Yoga and Pilates works.

Finally, have a good coach or partner to help you with your weaknesses that you can't see.
Jack 1000
Great idea for the new forum! I posted about it on the main page of the Rules/Suggestions thread. We are seeing more users who are very interested in training, diet, conditioning, and anything that may help supplement their health.The best advice is to consult with your physician or health-care professional(s) for the proper regiments that are unique to you.

I have also been interested in learning about natural health care supplements that our community may use in training. What has worked, what hasn't.

ONE RULE THAT REALLY MUST APPLY TO THE FORUM. PLEASE DO NOT URL LINK TO ANY SITES THAT SOLICIT HEALTH CARE PRODUCTS OR SERVICES. THERE IS NO WAY OF KNOWING THE LEGITIMACY OF THE CLAIMS MADE BY THE SITE PROMOTING THE PRODUCTS OR SERVICES AND WE DON'T WANT SPAMMY HEALTH-CARE ADVERTISING IN THIS FORUM!

This forum is for users to discuss their experiences and results with BOXING, MMA, NUTRITION and WEIGHT CONDITIONING PROCEDURES for our community. Please do not advertise or solicit products by linking to them in this section.

Jack

Administrator
stillperpetuallygrooving
The general idea behind the weight training aspect involved in boxing is to develop the fast twitch muscles, and rather than build muscle mass, you simply need to retain muscle mass and lose body fat. Essentially you want as much of your body weight as possible to be muscle as long as you stay in a healthy distance your desired fighting weight. Example, most welterweight fighters walk around at an in shape, lean 160 pounds or so, and then gradually lose the extra weight in the few months leading up to the weigh-in.

In order to achieve the aforementioned results, a regular workout for a boxer should be cardio-intense with high reps and little rest between sets. Supersets are also very good, this is where two workouts are performed consecutively in order to comlete one set, exmaple: do a set of pushups/chest exercise immediately followed with a set of pullups/back exercise, then rest for 60 seconds and repeat 3 times. 50 percent of the workout should be resistance/strength training at an intense pace, and the other 50 percent should be strictly cardio. It is important when doing cardio to do something different each day. One day just jog 3 miles or so, the next day do sets of sprints, the next do sets of running up-hill. This way your fast twitch muscles will develop explosiveness with the sprints and up-hill runs and your overall endurance will improve from the long jogs.

This regimen of 30-45 minutes of resistance training coupled with 30-45 of cardio should be done 4-6 times per week depending on how cruel and intense you are on your body, it will let you know if you need an extra day of rest.

This is just the very tip of the iceberg of my knowledge on strength training as well as working out. I used to be a personal trainer and I know the exact science behind strength and fitness training. My knowledge of strength training combined with my love, knowledge, and time spent in boxing gyms allows me a special insight on how to prepare the body for boxing.

Starting next week I am getting back in the gym, and I am going to keep a detailed log/photo/video journal of the transformation I am about to put my body through. This is not only for my general health and well being, I also plan on finally making my debut in the amateur ranks in order to help pay my law through law school this fall. Starting this monday, over the next two months I am going to go from my current weight of 175 pounds with a body fat of around 16 percent or so to about 165 to 160 pounds with a body fat of 6-8 percent.

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Spyder @ Feb 6 2009, 11:03 AM) [snapback]424111[/snapback]
Fitz...the problem with weights is they increase fatigue...it sucks, but it's true.

Bigger muscles require more oxygen.

EXACTLY!!!!You nailed it Spyder..When I was doing weights I would be dead tired after 1 round of 2 minutes and now I can spar 4 rounds of 3 minutes minus the weights..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Feb 6 2009, 01:13 PM) [snapback]424126[/snapback]
Ok, since weights are introduced here, I'll give my opinion. There is nothing wrong with weight training for fighters. The quickest human I have ever seen used weights at least 4 time a week (Bruce Lee). Check out his book, The Art of Expressing the Human Body. My suggestion is you have to run and you have to stretch or you will become stiff. I have sparred with a lot of guys who lift weights and they are the easiest people to beat. They aren't flexible and their arms get tired after 1 or two rounds. You should also add swimming if you're going to lift weights. Here's my regiment

1. Run, Mackie Shilstone has a great routine that simulates an actual fight, he has the fighters run once around the field then sprint as hard as they can. This helps because in fights you will speed up and slow down.
2. Shadow box, this is for speed, flexibility, and to work on your technique.
3. Bag work, the heavy bag helps with distance and power. Always use a boxing timer to simulate an actual round.
4. Speed bag, works reflexes and speed.
5. Resistance cords, also works speed.
6. Sparring, this is very important because this is where you test your mettle. This is where you learn if what you learned will work.
7. Yoga or Pilates, This may make some laugh but the more flexible fighter is usally the better fighter. Yoga and Pilates works.

Finally, have a good coach or partner to help you with your weaknesses that you can't see.

Speed bad works a lot more than just speed and reflexes..It builds up some of the most important muscles you can get for boxing(if done properly)..Sugar Ray Robinson and Louis(best guys to watch) and other guys now and in the past hit the speed bag the proper way..It builds up a muscle that attaches from the neck to the shoulder that is the most important muscle including the neck and legs for taking a punch..It isn't the trap either..I forget the name of it..

I'm with you on the yoga or pilates stuff even though I don't do it..Flexibility is important and will help keep you looser in the ring instead of stiff like Jeff Lacy..

Good work out plan Box in Hand..
Spyder
QUOTE(Fitz @ Feb 6 2009, 07:44 PM) [snapback]424186[/snapback]
Did you read stillperpetuallygrooving. He has had the most insightful post by anyone here, and uses weights. If you use weights like he has said, you shouldn't feel what you were feeling when you used weights.

He also thinks that he can pay his way through law school by being an amateur fighter...
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Fitz @ Feb 6 2009, 03:11 AM) [snapback]424061[/snapback]
It's actually natural to slow down when moving up.


Tell that to Manny Pac smart guy cool.gif He looked as fast as ever against DLH.

QUOTE(3King3 @ Feb 6 2009, 05:10 AM) [snapback]424069[/snapback]
I cant do it cause they blocked it at work but if you go to youtube and type in The Sweet Science (an ESPN Special they had on Roy after the Ruiz fight) it will show clips of Jones working out with Mackie which he was also lifting weights. That son of a gun didn't look slow in the Ruiz fight to me.


Steroids work wonders my good man.

QUOTE(JonnyBlaze @ Feb 6 2009, 07:35 AM) [snapback]424088[/snapback]
I actually have the dvd of him training for his second fight with Tarver..Heart of the Champion I think it's called..


Well they fucked up with the naming of that one didn't they. Should be called "Heart of a flea chin of a flyweight"
STEVENSKI
To build stamina I get a firm grip of the bar & warm up nice & slow aiming to build rythym rather than pace. Once warmed up I increase the speed of my workout & vigirously work it changing up my workout by having short pulls with many reps & long pulls with less reps. I try to do this with both arms but my right sems to have more stamina. I finish my workout by towelling off & having a shower.
Spyder
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Feb 6 2009, 09:16 PM) [snapback]424208[/snapback]
To build stamina I get a firm grip of the bar & warm up nice & slow aiming to build rythym rather than pace. Once warmed up I increase the speed of my workout & vigirously work it changing up my workout by having short pulls with many reps & long pulls with less reps. I try to do this with both arms but my right sems to have more stamina. I finish my workout by towelling off & having a shower.

How many blokes do you run through in a typical workout?
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(Spyder @ Feb 7 2009, 02:22 AM) [snapback]424212[/snapback]
How many blokes do you run through in a typical workout?


No this is a purely solo workout. Sometimes I work it in with doing snatches as well.
Spyder
I prefer snatches to a clean/jerk.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Spyder @ Feb 6 2009, 08:54 PM) [snapback]424187[/snapback]
He also thinks that he can pay his way through law school by being an amateur fighter...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..When I just saw that I was about to post about it too..Ya got em Spyder..
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE(stillperpetuallygrooving @ Feb 6 2009, 05:34 PM) [snapback]424163[/snapback]
Supersets are also very good, this is where two workouts are performed consecutively in order to comlete one set, exmaple: do a set of pushups/chest exercise immediately followed with a set of pullups/back exercise,



I thought they were called 'splits' as they work TWO different major muscle groups? (The chest and back in your example).



My interpetation of 'super sets', are when you have two exercises that work the same muscle group. One based on heavier weight with less reps at a slow pace, then the follwing exercise has less weight with more reps at an explosive pace.

For instance, for Chest, you do Bench press with a heavyish weight (one that you can just about perform about 12 reps with), then straight away, you do 20 push ups at an explosive pace.

Rest for a minute then repeat 2 other times.


I do this type of workout a lot. It jacks your heart rate up and gives you a good mix of strength and muscular endurance.


ANother example would be Squats for 12 reps, then 20 burpees straight after.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Feb 6 2009, 10:16 PM) [snapback]424208[/snapback]
To build stamina I get a firm grip of the bar & warm up nice & slow aiming to build rythym rather than pace. Once warmed up I increase the speed of my workout & vigirously work it changing up my workout by having short pulls with many reps & long pulls with less reps. I try to do this with both arms but my right sems to have more stamina. I finish my workout by towelling off & having a shower.

God damn!!!hahaha..That shit is too funny!!You got me crackin up over here..
MarzB
Onto the "weight" points, I think weights are one of the WORSE things a boxer could use. Sure, Mosley and Holyfield uses them amongst other boxers but Shane I don't believe in his return tour to 147 has implemented them. I'm pretty certain he didn't use them in his last camp as his ability to throw combinations seemed to MAGICALLY come back.

I'm all for innovation in the training techniques and think weights do have "SOME" purpose but not HEAVY lifting that the average person that works out partakes in.

I believe if a boxer incorporates a weight training program, they should immediately box/hit the bag/shadow after lifting. It's my opinion that it's the elasticity of your muscles that generate speed and power not merely the "horse power" or "size" within it.

-- ------------

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(MarzB @ Feb 11 2009, 08:34 PM) [snapback]424749[/snapback]
Onto the "weight" points, I think weights are one of the WORSE things a boxer could use. Sure, Mosley and Holyfield uses them amongst other boxers but Shane I don't believe in his return tour to 147 has implemented them. I'm pretty certain he didn't use them in his last camp as his ability to throw combinations seemed to MAGICALLY come back.

I'm all for innovation in the training techniques and think weights do have "SOME" purpose but not HEAVY lifting that the average person that works out partakes in.

I believe if a boxer incorporates a weight training program, they should immediately box/hit the bag/shadow after lifting. It's my opinion that it's the elasticity of your muscles that generate speed and power not merely the "horse power" or "size" within it.

--------------

I'm with ya MarzB..
Spyder
QUOTE(Fitz @ Feb 11 2009, 09:25 PM) [snapback]424775[/snapback]
Who said anything about them lifting heavy? Most fighters are supposed to lift light, but with high tempo to work there heart rate.

Also, you can add Hopkins to the list who lifts weights, and RJJ when he moved up.

Speaking of Hopkins lifting weights and moving up...has anyone else noticed that he seems to have regained his youth in doing that.

It's like Jermain Taylor showed us that Hopkins was an old fighter, then Hop moved up to Lt Heavy and all of a sudden he's fighting like he's in his 20's.

QUOTE
Growth hormone (GH) is a peptide hormone that stimulates growth and cell reproduction in humans and other animals. This hormone is used clinically to treat children's growth disorders and adult growth hormone deficiency. In recent years, replacement therapies with human growth hormones (HGH) have become popular in the battle against aging. Reported effects include decreased body fat, increased muscle mass, increased bone density, increased energy levels, improved skin tone and texture, and improved immune system function.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Spyder @ Feb 12 2009, 09:46 AM) [snapback]424886[/snapback]
Speaking of Hopkins lifting weights and moving up...has anyone else noticed that he seems to have regained his youth in doing that.

It's like Jermain Taylor showed us that Hopkins was an old fighter, then Hop moved up to Lt Heavy and all of a sudden he's fighting like he's in his 20's.

In my opinion he was having a hard time making 160 even though he still could..The extra weight he had gave him more energy..Being able to eat more food has helped him a lot..This has happened to plenty of fighters..Corrales was way more of a beast at 135 than below it..
Spyder
No way Jon...Chico was crazy good until the Floyd fight at 130.

Everything he did after that loss was just building his rep back up.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Spyder @ Feb 13 2009, 05:44 PM) [snapback]424997[/snapback]
No way Jon...Chico was crazy good until the Floyd fight at 130.

Everything he did after that loss was just building his rep back up.

I'm not sayin he wasn't good below 135 but right before he fought Floyd he said he'd never fight at 130 again but to fight Floyd convinced him to..I do think he was better at 135 than any other weight but he was still good at any weight..Guys who train to lose weight to fight are at a huge disadvantage against guys who train to box..Hatton could be better than he is but his training camp is focused on him losing weight and not skills..

Fighters have even said they have more energy and feel better in the ring when they add on weight..B-Hop seriously would look like shit in first half of fights and come on later..I really think the weight was an issue for him and he felt he had to pace himself a lot more..There is no doubt about it he could of continued to fight at 160 and make weight with ease but his body didn't like it as much as it does now..Ya know what I mean??
JonnyBlaze
Spyder,I missed the thing about growth hormones..Do you think B-Hop takes them??
Spyder
I wouldn't be surprised at all. The man is 43.

Before working with Mackie...no way. But when I saw him weigh in for the Tarver fight, it raised my eyebrows...
MarzB
QUOTE(Fitz @ Feb 11 2009, 10:25 PM) [snapback]424775[/snapback]
Who said anything about them lifting heavy? Most fighters are supposed to lift light, but with high tempo to work there heart rate.

Also, you can add Hopkins to the list who lifts weights, and RJJ when he moved up.



It wasn't said but lets look at this from a realistic perspective. Most people who will try to incorporate this with a boxing program will tend to go the traditional route. I'm not talking about the HOPKINS of the world although I'm VERY curious exactly what it is he does. Floyd also has been seen with weights.

I personally believe one doesn't need them and can get EXACTLY if not better results with ployometrics exercises.
ROLL DEEP
Why do people bash weights?


As long as you're using low weights and developing fast twitch muscle fibres (the explosive type) that light weights will give you, why not use them?


If you're arm, for instance, gets used to throwing a punch with a 5kgs dumbell in your hand, and it gets used to having to exert a certain amount of power to reach your desired speed, then WITHOUT the dumbell, you'll punch quicker and harder.


Providing you don't go heavy with the weights (which was never mentioned when the whole weights thing came about), and develop slow twitch muscle fibres, you'll be fine.



Doing an intense weights session also keeps your body burning calories AFTER training too while the muscle repairs themselves, so they can aid in loosing weight too.
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