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Jack 1000
For all on-going comments and post fight reactions to HBO's boxing double-header tonight:

Marquez vs. Diaz and John vs. Juarez.

Keep everything in this thread.

Jack

Administrator
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Wow, that was a good fight. I had it just like the judges, a draw. I thought Juarez won rounds 1,2,4,8,11,and 12. Lederman was pretty off tonight in giving John the 1st and 12th rounds. I thought those were pretty clear Juarez rounds, as he closed the distance and cut off the ring and also landed hard shots. Juarez had success when he jabbed his way in. He did that in the first four rounds and the last two rounds. He stopped working his way in though in the middle rounds, and just let John keep him at distance. He lost those rounds, just like he has in other fights. If he would have jabbed his way in all night, he'd be champ. I'd love to see a rematch between these two, as that was an action packed fight that had colliding styles.
The CEO
I wanna puke...what's wrong with judges....do they feel they HAVE to roll with the hometown boy to keep up appearances or something?

Spirited effort from Juarez in the last 3 rounds...but he got straight outboxed and outworked the majority of the fight....no way Juarez won 6 rounds or deserves a Draw....

Break the fucking chain, judges....call that shit right!
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Looking forward to this fight starting as well. I gots to go with Marquez tonight, as he's going to use angles and his boxing skills to outslick Diaz. Diaz has the work rate, but I think Marquez will keep him at bay and stay on the outside. I'd love to see Marquez-Pac 2, as I think Marquez beat him twice. Should be a good one.
The CEO
KTSF....you know your Boxing....but God Damn...Juarez did NOT win 6 rounds.....I'd say he won 3 or 4 at most...the only way I'd give him 5 is if I was a biased judge being generous to the homeboy....

Hope they don't screw Marquez too....
lloyd mayflower
different class. 4 rounds in and already the best scrap iv seen for a while.
Box in Hand
Marquez is landing the more telling shots but he needs to get off the ropes.
lloyd mayflower
toss a coin for the winner of this one i reckon. doubt there will be many better fights than this in 2009. am i the only one that thinks this is right up there in the p4p stakes, given that im not one of those who likes to smoke mannys banger?
Box in Hand
Diaz just got hurt.. starting to look like the Campbell fight. He freaks when he gets cut!
Box in Hand
Marquez the Legend!
lloyd mayflower
unbelievable to be able to step up a gear like that. marquez is fuckin superb. pac is a dick if he doesnt eventually give him another shot cos he has done it the right way, chased down and fought the best and knocked them out. respect
Romulus9
First of all, this is not only Fight of the Year so far (and it'll take something massive to top it in the next 9 months) but this is the fight to put in the JMM Time Capsule.

Secondly, what a great job tonight by Rafael Ramos. GREAT job start to finish, from staying out of the way and letting them fight, not worrying about the cuts, and handling the end of the fight perfectly.

Great, great, great night of boxing. When it's good, there's NOTHING like the Sweet Science.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Mar 1 2009, 12:01 AM) [snapback]426588[/snapback]
Marquez the Legend!



Marquez looked highly beatable tonite but with no one at 135 he should be safe. A move of to 140 would be disastrous for him.
Box in Hand
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Feb 28 2009, 11:05 PM) [snapback]426591[/snapback]
Marquez looked highly beatable tonite but with no one at 135 he should be safe. A move of to 140 would be disastrous for him.


Beatable? He faced a young bull and came through fire at 35. I think he showed all the others a fucking way to become Legend!
Box in Hand
Diaz's kryptonite is CUTS! Real men fight through blood.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Mar 1 2009, 12:05 AM) [snapback]426591[/snapback]
Marquez looked highly beatable tonite but with no one at 135 he should be safe. A move of to 140 would be disastrous for him.


WooooW! Marquez just called out Mayweather! I like Marquez but dude is delusional. I see Shane was standing behind him so maybe Marquez will go up and hand that ass to Shane.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Mar 1 2009, 12:05 AM) [snapback]426591[/snapback]
Marquez looked highly beatable tonite but with no one at 135 he should be safe. A move of to 140 would be disastrous for him.


WooooW! Marquez just called out Mayweather! I like Marquez but dude is delusional. I see Shane was standing behind him so maybe Marquez will go up and hand that ass to Shane.
lloyd mayflower
if that was beatable, i hate to think what diaz would have had to do to beat him, possbily the use of a sledgehammer. marquez took everything diaz had then knocked him the fuck out, badly.
Box in Hand
QUOTE(lloyd mayflower @ Feb 28 2009, 11:09 PM) [snapback]426596[/snapback]
if that was beatable, i hate to think what diaz would have had to do to beat him, possbily the use of a sledgehammer. marquez took everything diaz had then knocked him the fuck out, badly.


Amen brother. Amen.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(lloyd mayflower @ Mar 1 2009, 12:09 AM) [snapback]426596[/snapback]
if that was beatable, i hate to think what diaz would have had to do to beat him, possbily the use of a sledgehammer. marquez took everything diaz had then knocked him the fuck out, badly.


If Diaz was a puncher Marquez would've been outta there.
Box in Hand
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Feb 28 2009, 11:11 PM) [snapback]426598[/snapback]
If Diaz was a puncher Marquez would've been outta there.



If If was a fifth we'd all be drunk.
lloyd mayflower
maybe, but its not like diaz was tickling him, that was a war, have to respect both fighters. really enjoyed that, marquez's stock severely rises after that tho
Sugar Q
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Mar 1 2009, 12:12 AM) [snapback]426599[/snapback]
If If was a fifth we'd all be drunk.


Well I'm not a betting man but Marquez is moving to 140 you know smile.gif
Sugar Q
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Mar 1 2009, 12:13 AM) [snapback]426601[/snapback]
Well I'm not a betting man but Marquez is moving to 140 you know smile.gif



Great fighter but he can't be getting hit like that when he steps up in weight.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Mar 1 2009, 12:11 AM) [snapback]426598[/snapback]
If Diaz was a puncher Marquez would've been outta there.


If,If,If,

No one at 135 can put the same type of pressure AND have the punching power you are speaking of. I picked Diaz tonight and expected the whole fight to look like it did in the first 5. I actually thought JMM was slowing down in there but he broke Diaz down very well. I agreed with Torvix when he said JMM eats pressure fighters for lunch but I thought that if Cambpell couldn't hurt Diaz then JMM wouldn't wither. I was wrong there.

JMM might not have any superfights at 135 but I agree it would be a mistake for him to take on either Hatton or Mosley or anyone of those guys 1t 140+
The CEO
WHAT A GREAT FIGHT!!

Marquez is definitely a Legend....he's phenomenal....Diaz came at him with EVERYTHING......but that's a very risky move against such an experienced, master boxer....I know Diaz was being bold and having success, but he should have known better to keep goin' after a crafty genius of JMM's level....should have showed him a little more respect....

Regardless of that....I'm VERY impressed with both those guys tonight....they gave their all in there, man....awesome fight.

lloyd mayflower
he'll obviusly be calling out the winner of hatton pacquiao, either one would be magic. il be in attendance on may 2nd and i cant wait!
The CEO
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Mar 1 2009, 12:09 AM) [snapback]426593[/snapback]
Diaz's kryptonite is CUTS!


ain't that the truth....once I saw Diaz was opened up, I told my wife this one would be over soon....he gets so visibly affected by it....
Box in Hand
I think Floyd Eats Marquez in a snooze fest of pot shot workmanship. He needs to focus on the winner of Hatton and Pac and stay away from Mosely.
The Original MrFactor
My 2 cents for the nite...

Chris John wont be fighting in the US again. And I dont blame him... Fight should have been 116-112 John.


Marquez deserves mad credit. Not only did he beat the baby bull, he knocked his ass out!!! If it had gone to the cards, no way Marquez wins. Great fight. We will never see Pacquiao/Marquez III. Pac dont want any of that. BTW, when studying footwork, this would have been a great night for a young cat who is trying to work his way up to see some spectacular footwork. Chris John and JMM have very good subtle movement with their feet that place them in great position to return fire. 2 great technical fighters...
Mean Mister Mustard
Was it me or was Harold Lederman particularly bad tonight?
Sugar Q
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Mar 1 2009, 12:23 AM) [snapback]426607[/snapback]
I think Floyd Eats Marquez in a snooze fest of pot shot workmanship. He needs to focus on the winner of Hatton and Pac and stay away from Mosely.



Floyd stops Marquez inside 7 maybe earlier.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Mar 1 2009, 12:22 AM) [snapback]426606[/snapback]
ain't that the truth....once I saw Diaz was opened up, I told my wife this one would be over soon....he gets so visibly affected by it....



I thought the same exact thing...
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 1 2009, 12:25 AM) [snapback]426611[/snapback]
What a great fight, and Marquez looked good, but he has lost a step. I don't think he looked as sharp in this fight tonight, though he fought like an experienced fighter and his experience carried him a long way. I don't think he looked back, but to me he looked a little more vulnerable but what a performance.
I also feel sorry when Marquez called out Mayweather. Like that is going to be happen. For having the resume Marquez has, he isn't really in a big position to find many big fights right now.


I thought Diaz woul be too much and outwork him for 12 rounds, after a while JMM was doing a good job of making Diaz miss with his flurries, not a great job but good enough.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 1 2009, 12:25 AM) [snapback]426611[/snapback]
What a great fight, and Marquez looked good, but he has lost a step. I don't think he looked as sharp in this fight tonight, though he fought like an experienced fighter and his experience carried him a long way. I don't think he looked back, but to me he looked a little more vulnerable but what a performance.
I also feel sorry when Marquez called out Mayweather. Like that is going to be happen. For having the resume Marquez has, he isn't really in a big position to find many big fights right now.



Fitz... Man, Marquez hasnt lost a step. He's fighting over his natural weight. Not to mention he was fighting the Tazmanian Devil tonite. Diaz is going to push most guys at 135 to their tolerable limits. Marquez is kind of a smaller guy atthe weight and he weathered the storm and beat a guy, similar to the way he's beaten most guys. He does what he does very effective, efficient and well...
kidbazooka1
WOw what a f*Cking fight this is what boxing is all about definitly FOTY so far.

Marquez is a f*cking master he was able to adjust midway through the fight and stop a younger and tough as nails fighter who had never been stopped before.

Big props for Marquez for moving up and taking out two of of the top 135lbers Pacqiiao could learn a thing or two from Marquez.

As for the Mayweather comment Marquez ain't stupid he knows a fight like that may never happen I think he kinda through that out there to clown Pacqiuao saying that if he doesn't wanna fight him again he'll go for the real p4p king.

Overall great fight and Diaz has nothing to be ashamed of he lost to one of the greatest fighters of his era he's only 25 he'll be back.
kidbazooka1
Diaz was taking the shots good at first but it was only a matter of time before a sharp shooter like Marquez would take him out.
D-MARV
Let's see.... Marquez KOs Casamayor and Diaz, and Manny KOs Ghandi???? mmmmm,

P4P
1. Juan Manuel Marquez
2. Manny Pacquiao


Sugar Q
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 1 2009, 12:32 AM) [snapback]426619[/snapback]
I actually picked Marquez to win, and by very close decision as well. I am giving Marquez heaps of credit and not taking too much away from Diaz either. I do think Marquez looked good, all I am saying is to me I think it looked like he lost a little bit compared to last time I saw him. I think his experience counts for a lot and he came out like a champion and in no way am I saying that he is shot. I just think he looked a little older, but still quite good.



Marquez should be thanking GOD he didnt have a Edwin Rosario type fighter tonite or even a Hector Camacho, or Livingston Bramble. The baby bull can fight but he can't punch and the moment he started resting Marquez jumped on him. 140 will be the end of a brilliant career. Let's hope he was joking about 147 cause I'm sure a lot of those guys at 140-147 are calling trying to make that fight right now.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 1 2009, 01:32 AM) [snapback]426619[/snapback]
I actually picked Marquez to win, and by very close decision as well. I am giving Marquez heaps of credit and not taking too much away from Diaz either. I do think Marquez looked good, all I am saying is to me I think it looked like he lost a little bit compared to last time I saw him. I think his experience counts for a lot and he came out like a champion and in no way am I saying that he is shot. I just think he looked a little older, but still quite good.


I actually thought he looked better tonight than agianst Casa he was up against younger hungrier more active fighter.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 1 2009, 12:38 AM) [snapback]426621[/snapback]
Let's see.... Marquez KOs Casamayor and Diaz, and Manny KOs Ghandi???? mmmmm,

P4P
1. Juan Manuel Marquez
2. Manny Pacquiao


That's exactly why I say the P4P title should be vacant until further notice.
The CEO
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Mar 1 2009, 12:24 AM) [snapback]426609[/snapback]
Was it me or was Harold Lederman particularly bad tonight?


You just can't count on Lederman at all nowadays...the guy's been shot for like 2, 3 years now....there was a time when he was spot on 80%+...but that time's gone...

QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 1 2009, 12:25 AM) [snapback]426611[/snapback]
What a great fight, and Marquez looked good, but he has lost a step. I don't think he looked as sharp in this fight tonight, though he fought like an experienced fighter and his experience carried him a long way. I don't think he looked back, but to me he looked a little more vulnerable but what a performance.
I also feel sorry when Marquez called out Mayweather. Like that is going to be happen. For having the resume Marquez has, he isn't really in a big position to find many big fights right now.


Ofcourse one would assume Marquez HAS to be past his prime....but I don't think he's lost a full step...maybe a quarter step if any...Diaz was all over him from the jump, and Marquez always looks vulnerable early....gotta remember that....

and seeing Mayweather's name made me wanna say something....as far as Boxing intellect goes, Marquez IS on the same level as Mayweather....the guy is a genius...and so damn accurate.

I appreciate Marquez greatly....
Romulus9
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Mar 1 2009, 12:24 AM) [snapback]426609[/snapback]
Was it me or was Harold Lederman particularly bad tonight?



I thought Harold was WAY off in the main event.

I had Marquez up 78-74 going to the 9th.

I also had John winning 115-113.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Mar 1 2009, 01:39 AM) [snapback]426622[/snapback]
Marquez should be thanking GOD he didnt have a Edwin Rosario type fighter tonite or even a Hector Camacho, or Livingston Bramble. The baby bull can fight but he can't punch and the moment he started resting Marquez jumped on him. 140 will be the end of a brilliant career. Let's hope he was joking about 147 cause I'm sure a lot of those guys at 140-147 are calling trying to make that fight right now.


I don't think he was seriouse like I said i think he was just trying to clown on Manny by saying that if the so called p4p best don't wanna fight him he'll fight the real p4p best.
alaganza
great fight. I thought this was definitely a pick 'em fight. I had Diaz going into it. Marquez has the ability to make great adjustments and break fighters down. To me this was an amazing performance by Marquez. Diaz really needs to learn to clinch but you have to love this guys desire to be aggressive. FOY so far and it will be extremely tough to surpass this one. Hats off to both fighters tonight. They really let it all hang out.
Mean Mister Mustard
I'll be rewatching this fight just to see how Marquez punches in between the other guys blows, just so precise. And he does it in combination, must guys are 1 shot counter punchers, he does it in bunches and he can throw every punch in the book. Real solid all around pro. His defense to me is not upt there with Hopkins and Mayweather, he gets hit a little too much but man he is better than most guys with his defense. I also thinkg his defense is his offense. He punches between the other guy's punches and so they hesitate and stop throwing, then once they are on the outisde he lets loose with his pot shots and either stops you or outboxes you for 12 tounds.
Jack 1000
Classic fight with Marquez-Diaz. Not quite up there with Corrales-Castillo I, but will certainly be a candidate for FOTY honors and a keeper for great fights!

Having said that, Marquez-Mayweather would be a tactical fight of counter-punching, no where near like what we saw tonight. Marquez needs a brawler opponent to force a brawl and no way Mayweather would ever do that. That's even if Floyd came out of retirement. Well, I would love to see Floyd KTFO, it's not happening.

Scoring for Marquez-Diaz was damn near impossible because it was so two-sided with both men taking turns bashing each other. I had it 4-4 at the time of the KO.

On the prelim. Chris John should have won over Rocky Juarez. Booing crowds are more into hero worshiping and disappointed that their guy Juarez did not win. Had Rocky gotten that decision it would have been criminal. I had it 6-4-2 for John. (Yes, a rarity, of two even rounds. The 1st and the 4th.) That's the best I could give for credit to Rocky.

I'm sick of Lamply's nut-hugging of Punchstats every fucking round. That toy has got to be taken away from HBO. It's an inaccurate joke.

I can never understand what Manny Steward is saying. More and more, he just seems wasted.

HBO is too Ring Magazine happy, They keep ignoring alphabet titles like they are going to go away. Face it. Not happening. What's wrong with showing respect to the belt won by identifying it as such? Showtime never had that problem, so why is that so hard for HBO to do?

Great boxing! This just shows how well boxing can work when it is NOT PPV. HBO should allow the rights of Marquez-Diaz to be shown to commercial networks and outlets such as Spike TV, to show how the greatest boxing WILL ALWAYS be 100 to 1000's better than anything MMA can or will ever produce.

Jack
Box in Hand
I would like to officially state that "I don't like Max Kellerman". I would rather deal with Larry Merchant's ancient ass than Kellerman. He probably never got hit in the face in his life yet acts like he is king boxing analyst of the universe.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Mar 1 2009, 01:08 AM) [snapback]426631[/snapback]
Classic fight with Marquez-Diaz. Not quite up there with Corrales-Castillo I, but will certainly be a candidate for FOTY honors and a keeper for great fights!

Having said that, Marquez-Mayweather would be a tactical fight of counter-punching, no where near like what we saw tonight. Marquez needs a brawler opponent to force a brawl and no way Mayweather would ever do that. That's even if Floyd came out of retirement. Well, I would love to see Floyd KTFO, it's not happening.

Scoring for Marquez-Diaz was damn near impossible because it was so two-sided with both men taking turns bashing each other. I had it 4-4 at the time of the KO.

On the prelim. Chris John should have won over Rocky Juarez. Booing crowds are more into hero worshiping and disappointed that their guy Juarez did not win. Had Rocky gotten that decision it would have been criminal. I had it 6-4-2 for John. (Yes, a rarity, of two even rounds. The 1st and the 4th.) That's the best I could give for credit to Rocky.

I'm sick of Lamply's nut-hugging of Punchstats every fucking round. That toy has got to be taken away from HBO. It's an inaccurate joke.

I can never understand what Manny Steward is saying. More and more, he just seems wasted.

HBO is too Ring Magazine happy, They keep ignoring alphabet titles like they are going to go away. Face it. Not happening. What's wrong with showing respect to the belt won by identifying it as such? Showtime never had that problem, so why is that so hard for HBO to do?

Great boxing! This just shows how well boxing can work when it is NOT PPV. HBO should allow the rights of Marquez-Diaz to be shown to commercial networks and outlets such as Spike TV, to show how the greatest boxing WILL ALWAYS be 100 to 1000's better than anything MMA can or will ever produce.

Jack


I agree about compubox, I think it is good to get an approximation of the activity rate of a fightter but it is nowhere near as useful as Lampley keeps making it out to be. Don't take it away but maybe only show the annoucners the numbers at the end of the fight.

I think the John-Juarez fight showed that John has the style to give JMM fits because he moves and jabs very well and makes guys go to him. However, if you watch the JMM-John fight, it was close but only because JMM was to tentative. Remember, this was the time when JMM was playing it safe and had 2 relatively boring fights with that Mexican dude on the undercard of Hopkins-DLH and then another one against Polo. He turned it up late against John but he had the points deducted.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE(Box in Hand @ Mar 1 2009, 02:14 AM) [snapback]426632[/snapback]
I would like to officially state that "I don't like Max Kellerman". I would rather deal with Larry Merchant's ancient ass than Kellerman. He probably never got hit in the face in his life yet acts like he is king boxing analyst of the universe.

Me too..

Marquez was amazing tonight..He fought the wrong fight for awhile but it all worked out in the end..He did a lot of good work through out the whole fight but turned it on a lot later,like I usually expect from him..Marquez likes figuring guys out and exploiting them and did this with the left uppercut tonight..Diaz fought any amazing fight too..I really didn't like seeing the final punch stats though..They both almost landed 300 punches on each other..BRUTAL shit!!It was very entertaining but I hope nothing was taken out of either of these guys after this fight(Diaz especially since he is still very young)..
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