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kidbazooka1
What do you guys think. Will Mayweather go for it or will he out price himself like usual.

link
JonnyBlaze
Floyd should be looking at a fight with Pac-man(if he gets past Hatton)..Pac-man is P4P champ right now..Pac-man is at his best now and he wants a older version of Marquez..Don't get me wrong,Marquez is like an aging wine..In boxing though,you could spoil after one day/night..Marquez didn't look as good as I'd hoped against Diaz..I really wish he would have controlled Diaz more in the beginning than fight it out with him..It's weird that Floyd would want this fight over all the other fights he could have..Why all of a sudden does he want Marquez when PLENTY of other guys have been calling him out..

Pac-man and Paul Williams are the 2 guys I'd want to see Floyd fight..
kidbazooka1
I don't know Fitz i think Marquez could give Floyd some problems he's not your typical come forward brawler or safety first boxer he can switch it up also Floyd would be coming off the longest layoff of his career which won't help him any.

But your right the fight ain't worth it it's a no one situation for Floyd.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
I'm not a huge PBF fan but I see this as being an easy night's work for him.

Looking past the knockdowns Manny actually had some success in their 2nd fight boxing JMM, so if Manny could hold his own I suspect Floyd will coast it fairly easily.

I think it was Tyson who made the observation that when a guy who is as naturally quick and atheletic as Mayweather decides to pot shot his way to victory he's virtually impossible to beat.

I'd agree with that.

People always bring the first Castillo fight, but hey Floyd had one bad night in his career and it was a long time ago. Even with the layoff he's now a much more complete (and bigger) fighter.

Does Marquez trouble him? I don't think so, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
torvix2000
LOL!

Mayweather demanding $20M, I've read some time ago. How much would he demand against Marquez? This fight talk is more bogus than Dela Hoya-Pacquiao. Okay, DLH-Pacman happened but it's because of the money. Both were satisfied.
Method
I find it hard to believe that Marquez, of all people, would be the guy that Floyd comes out of retirement for.
D-MARV
QUOTE(Method @ Mar 4 2009, 05:38 AM) [snapback]426956[/snapback]
I find it hard to believe that Marquez, of all people, would be the guy that Floyd comes out of retirement for.

I agree.

But if he does decide to fight Marquez, I wouldn't call it a pussy move, as long as he fights some other guys like Manny Pac or Mosley.
JD
Mosley was not big enough for him to come back for...but Marquez is?

Makes no sense. Unless Floyd views Marquez as simply a tuneup he can try to package as a fight the public is demanding.
torvix2000
I think these fighters should make a pact and deny Mayweather his comeback. Let him go bankrupt for a while. Hard to do since money talks. But if Mayweather's gonna demand ridiculous amounts, then shun him.

Why? Because Mayweather's messing around with us by being on canvass mode. Canvassing for an opponent who would accept much less.
Sugar Q
Come on guys. The unfair thing about all this is these guys are calling out Mayweather! If I'm retired and they wanna pay me 20-30 mill to pussy whip some little guy that believes his own hype, I like all of you would do the same thing. Once again PBF challenged Mosley and Cotto so nobody ducked them they turned down the fights. At the same time if he does decide to come back I think he has to challenge Shane again.
torvix2000
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Mar 4 2009, 02:46 PM) [snapback]426965[/snapback]
Come on guys. The unfair thing about all this is these guys are calling out Mayweather! If I'm retired and they wanna pay me 20-30 mill to pussy whip some little guy that believes his own hype, I like all of you would do the same thing. Once again PBF challenged Mosley and Cotto so nobody ducked them they turned down the fights. At the same time if he does decide to come back I think he has to challenge Shane again.


Sorry. I never thought of that. Yeah. I would do the same thing. Easy money. After all, I was the one who recommend current generation fighters to go after the money first and then greatness 2nd.
Big Slim Sweet
I'm sorry, Marquez is a great, great fighter, but Floyd returning to fight him would be a gigantic pussy move. If/when Floyd comes back, it really needs to be against either Mosley, Pacquiao or Cotto. As great as Marquez is he's the least dangerous of that group, and he brings the least amount of money to the table. No way.

That said, I don't think for a second this fight will ever happen.
JLUVBABY
fact is if floyd fights any of the guys moving up pacman, marquez, even hatton again that we now know he can beat its money fights he's making not legacy fights... if he indeed is planning to fight again floyd needs to fight a solid welterweight contender to shake the rust then go into the only fight that matters at this point which is a shane mosely fight... none of the smaller guys being mentioned have a chance in hell of beating him pacman included... now i will say if he continues to play his game and does plan to come back then the longer he stays out the better chances these guys have of clipping him... but fact remains floyds biggest risk remain mosely, cotto and paul williams... and the paul fight might be becoming out of reach cuzz he is growing into an even bigger fighter.
stillperpetuallygrooving
damarvelous1 just shut up, just shut your faggity ass mouth, youze a bitch, youze always been and always will be a bitch ass hoecake.

that being said, marquez is clearly the pound for pound best fighter in the world...everyone, ESPECIALLY FLOYD knows that marquez took manny to school their second fight, and won the first fight, albeit a lot closer. marquez definitely won the overall fight their first time, but since boxing is judged by each individual round, then i can kinda understand manny getting the decision. i think marquez is easily the toughest challenged for mayweather

however, since most boxing fans dont understand the technicality involved, they all just assume manny beat marquez, and therefor deserves the top pound for pound spot...moreover, most boxing fans just wanna see the biggest names fight regardless of skill level...so, floyd wont get as much money for fighting marquez so he MIGHT come back and fight the winner of pacquiao/hatton. and as much as i like ricky, and as skilled as he is, he simply is not as good as mayweather.
D-MARV
Sugar Q brought up a good point! All these people are bashing Mayweather, but I have not heard Money May call out anyone. All these fighters, (Hatton, Marquez, and Mosley are calling Mayweather out.
Method
QUOTE
Price himself out. I don't understand this, it's not like Marquez to me is a danger move for Mayweather. Mayweather should price himself out of a fight with Marquez, because if he took a fight with him, I would actually think it's a pussy move, not a step towards greatness.


Word.

I actually HOPE some poor fucking promoter gives Floyd his $20M guarantee, because IF anyone guarantees this fraud of a mkt'ble fighter $20M to fight Marquez, they are going to take a fiscal bite in the ass.

The ONLY way Floyd could have come close to making that kind of loot would have been to fight a pre-Paq DLH.

Floyd is NOT a draw. There are no if's, and's, or but's about that. He fought Gatti in AC, Hatton in Vegas (and it was ALL England), and he fought DLH. ALL three of those dance partners were the draw and brought the market.

Marquez does NOT have that appeal, as much as I respect his skills as a fighter.

There is just no way Floyd will ever make any money again if some shit head guarantees him $15-20M for Marquez, because said shithead will go broke, and all the other promoters will be hip to the bamboozle.

Floyd's best shot at that kinda money would be vs Hatton IF Hatton gets by Paq.

A Cotto fight wouldnt do it, nor would a Paq fight (paq fight prob 2nd most $lucrative$ for Floyd).
Nay_Sayer
Actually, I see this as a good move for Mayweather.

Why?

An Argument can be made that JMM is 1-1 or even 2-0 against the Pac Man. Should Floyd come out of retirement and dominate JMM - that, IMO, gives Floyd plenty of leverage in the P4P argument deparment. It also provides the Mayweather camp with the perfect angle with which to promote a fight with Paquiao. "I dominated the guy you struggled with in two fights."
thehype
LOL

I think boxing fans byte at a little tidbit of news they can sink their teeth into.

Richard Schaefer: "So Al, tell me, ven is your boy Floyd going to decide if he truly vants to come out of retirement?"

Al Haymon: "Well Rich, you know Lil Floyd is itchin' to put a whoopin' on anybody if the price is right."

Richard Schaefer: "Vell, how vould he feel about breaking out his sombrero one more time to face Marquez?"

Al Haymon: "Hey, you know Lil Floyd. If the price is right then we've got a fight."

Richard Schaefer: "Good!"

BREAKING NEWS!!! MAYWEATHER-MARQUEZ TALKS HEAT UP!

laugh.gif

Come on now...Floyd's going to come back and fight whoever offers the biggest payday for him and as of now, that person is either going to be Manny Pacquiao or Ricky Hatton. The only way Marquez gets the fight with him is 1) the winner of Pacquiao-Hatton chooses not to fight Floyd (fat chance) or 2) Marquez is willing to take short, short, SHORT money and allows Floyd to take like 80% of the pot (possible, I guess, but I doubt it).

I highly doubt we'll see Floyd in the ring with Marquez anytime soon. You never know though...I guess.

laugh.gif
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 4 2009, 02:48 PM) [snapback]426986[/snapback]
An Argument can be made that JMM is 1-1 or even 2-0 against the Pac Man. Should Floyd come out of retirement and dominate JMM - that, IMO, gives Floyd plenty of leverage in the P4P argument deparment. It also provides the Mayweather camp with the perfect angle with which to promote the fight. "I dominated the guy you struggled with in two fights."

But couldn't Manny just come back and say, "I obliterated the guy you barely eked out a split decision against"? It goes both ways.

Also, an argument can be made that Pacman should be 2-0 against Marquez.

I hate PBF but I'll side with him when it's merited. He doesn't need any leverage in the p4p argument. Everyone still considers him p4p #1 in recess, why else would they all be calling him out? If he comes out of retirement to fight Manny, everyone will know that it is Manny challenging for PBF's p4p title. Or at minimum it'll be like Frazier-Ali, where Floyd will be coming back to try and reclaim what was once rightfully his.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Mar 4 2009, 01:27 PM) [snapback]426989[/snapback]
But couldn't Manny just come back and say, "I obliterated the guy you barely eked out a split decision against"? It goes both ways.

That argument would hold water if Pacquiao had fought DLH @ 154lbs. Unfortunately, he didn't so it doesn't.


QUOTE(Big Slim @ Mar 4 2009, 01:27 PM) [snapback]426989[/snapback]
Also, an argument can be made that Pacman should be 2-0 against Marquez.

Maybe, if you live on Fantasy Island.
dbdbdb
Hey what's up guys.

Just to chime in on this BS article.

One relevant point I'll make before I comment: * - Sadly, The economy is tanking BIG time. cray.gif

* - Every boxer out there knows that being a boxing legend with no paper ain't going to put bacon & eggs on the kitchen table for their family. So, from here on out ...... IT IS PURELY AND SOLELY ABOUT WHAT OPPONENT IS GOING TO BRING IN THE BIGGEST PURSE.

Floyd isn't coming out to fight JMM, not today ....... not tomorrow ...... not ever. Because he doesn't bring enough paper to the equation. The only one's AT PRESENT, who can generate the kind of money Floyd wants is either Hatton or Pac-Man. All this rap by Floyd's crew, is just a ploy to generate interest in an Out-Of-Retirement-Party ..... leading to another huge payday.

UNFORTUNATELY, Even though Mosley just whipped AM ass, he doesn't generate enough paper to warrant a fight with Floyd and Cotto is sadly in the same boat. So the best option for both Mosley & Cotto is to fight each other again. And hope to god that the winner of the Hatton vs Pac-Mac doesn't BITE on a Mega-Payday with Floyd.

If the winner of the Hatton vs Pac-Mac DOES fight Floyd ......... Then both Mosley & Cotto will be looking at small purses for some time to come.

Williams is moving on to BIGGER things {SADLY} ...... I think he's come into the realization that he's not going to be able to make a living at wealterweight .... So, he's presently looking for a weight class where he can make his mark, because it isn't going to happen at wealterweight.

IMHO!!!
JD
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 4 2009, 02:47 PM) [snapback]426990[/snapback]
That argument would hold water if Pacquiao had fought DLH @ 154lbs. Unfortunately, he didn't so it doesn't.


So Floyd would be fighting Marquez at 126, 130...or even 135?
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Mar 4 2009, 02:57 PM) [snapback]426993[/snapback]
Williams is moving on to BIGGER things {SADLY} ...... I think he's come into the realization that he's not going to be able to make a living at wealterweight .... So, he's presently looking for a weight class where he can make his mark, because it isn't going to happen at wealterweight.

That would have to be 160lbs. Jr Middle is a wasteland sans Oscar. So, unless Oscar grows a set and makes the Williams fight @ 154, what's the point in fighting there?

That leaves Pavlik, a wounded duck ready to be taken....
Fitz
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Mar 5 2009, 02:30 AM) [snapback]426971[/snapback]
I'm sorry, Marquez is a great, great fighter, but Floyd returning to fight him would be a gigantic pussy move. If/when Floyd comes back, it really needs to be against either Mosley, Pacquiao or Cotto. As great as Marquez is he's the least dangerous of that group, and he brings the least amount of money to the table. No way.

That said, I don't think for a second this fight will ever happen.


I agree completely. Marquez is definitely one of the best fighters. But he is small and untested at the higher weights, and will be a pussy move if Mayweather took it. He needs to fight Williams, Mosley or Cotto. Fuck Pacquiao also for now, unless he smashes Hatton in the best possible fashion, even if Pacquiao eeks out a close win, Mayweather should fuck the fight with Pacquiao.

QUOTE(Method @ Mar 5 2009, 04:52 AM) [snapback]426983[/snapback]
Word.

I actually HOPE so poor fucking promoter gives Floyd his $20M guarantee, because IF anyone guarantees this fraud of a mkt'ble fighter $20M to fight Marquez, they are going to take a fiscal bite in the ass.

The ONLY way Floyd could have come close to making that kind of loot would have been to fight a pre-Paq DLH.

Floyd is NOT a draw. There are no if's, and's, or but's about that. He fought Gatti in AC, Hatton in Vegas (and it was ALL England), and he fought DLH. ALL three of those dance partners were the draw and brought the market.

Marquez does NOT have that appeal, as much as I respect his skills as a fighter.

There is just no way Floyd will ever make any money again if some shit head guarantees him $15-20M for Marquez, because said shithead will go broke, and all the other promoters will be hip to the bamboozle.

Floyd's best shot at that kinda money would be vs Hatton IF Hatton gets by Paq.

A Cotto fight wouldnt do it, nor would a Paq fight (paq fight prob 2nd most $lucrative$ for Floyd).


I also agree about him not being the draw people make him out to be, he always had a pretty good dance partner.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(JD @ Mar 4 2009, 03:19 PM) [snapback]426995[/snapback]
So Floyd would be fighting Marquez at 126, 130...or even 135?

No. I think if the fight were to happen, Floyd would insist that it happen @ 147 lbs...
streetlion1
Well Gayweather sure as hell isnt gonna step in there with any natural Welters so he is just following suit with another little guy who much dont expect to beat him...BUT...Marquez is no Hatton so I think he could give GBF all he can handle....or at least I hope so.


I see Gayweather taking this fight... Marquez, hatton, or Pacman....he knows he has to fight one of the little guys because Mosley or Cotto would take what little manhood he has in the ring.


The man(and in his case I use that term losely)has no nuts so it might take some idiot to offer him 15-20mil. to step in the ring!
JD
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 4 2009, 05:10 PM) [snapback]427001[/snapback]
No. I think if the fight were to happen, Floyd would insist that it happen @ 147 lbs...


Right, and I think that kind of goes back to Slim's point.
BigG
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 4 2009, 10:08 PM) [snapback]427000[/snapback]
I agree completely. Marquez is definitely one of the best fighters. But he is small and untested at the higher weights, and will be a pussy move if Mayweather took it. He needs to fight Williams, Mosley or Cotto. Fuck Pacquiao also for now, unless he smashes Hatton in the best possible fashion, even if Pacquiao eeks out a close win, Mayweather should fuck the fight with Pacquiao.



I also agree about him not being the draw people make him out to be, he always had a pretty good dance partner.


I agree that Mayweather wasn't the draw vs. DLH. Then again, Mayweather-DLH did 2.5 million buys while Pacquiao-DLH did 1.25....obviously De La Hoya is a draw but does that show Mayweather is at least as big a draw as Manny? When was the last time DLH did 2.5 million buys? The answer is never besides his fight with Floyd. Fact is, Mayweather helps sells fight. Mayweather has become a pretty big draw over the years...
streetlion1
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Mar 4 2009, 05:08 PM) [snapback]427014[/snapback]
I agree that Mayweather wasn't the draw vs. DLH. Then again, Mayweather-DLH did 2.5 million buys while Pacquiao-DLH did 1.25....obviously De La Hoya is a draw but does that show Mayweather is at least as big a draw as Manny? When was the last time DLH did 2.5 million buys? The answer is never besides his fight with Floyd. Fact is, Mayweather helps sells fight. Mayweather has become a pretty big draw over the years...

I think it was more about the match-up in general....I think alot of fans considered the Pacman-DLH fight a bullshit fight and many expected DLH to walk through him so they didnt order. Also the press, 24/7 series, and just everything in general leading up to the fight between DLH-GBF was better anyway.

I dont think people love GBF I think they may love to hate him...which may sell tickets anyway because alot of people wanna see him lose.

Coming from me it doesnt mean much because I cant stand Gayweather...but im willing to bet more people hate him than love him.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 4 2009, 03:47 PM) [snapback]426990[/snapback]
Maybe, if you live on Fantasy Island.

Tell me, did Manny beat JMM last year by split decision on Fantasy Island or here on Planet Earth?

Had one judge understood the rules of judging five years ago and scored the first round appropriately, would Manny have beaten JMM by split decision then as well? Or am I concocting some sort of elaborate fantasy?

Hence, you can make an argument that Pacman should be 2-0 against Marquez. Here. On Earth. Dipshit.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Mar 4 2009, 07:08 PM) [snapback]427014[/snapback]
I agree that Mayweather wasn't the draw vs. DLH. Then again, Mayweather-DLH did 2.5 million buys while Pacquiao-DLH did 1.25....obviously De La Hoya is a draw but does that show Mayweather is at least as big a draw as Manny? When was the last time DLH did 2.5 million buys? The answer is never besides his fight with Floyd. Fact is, Mayweather helps sells fight. Mayweather has become a pretty big draw over the years...

Not saying Pac-DLH would have done 2.4 million necessarily, but the economy definitely played a role in that disparity.

Also, like Streetlion said a lot of people didn't consider the Manny-Oscar match-up legitimate.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(JD @ Mar 4 2009, 05:01 PM) [snapback]427010[/snapback]
Right, and I think that kind of goes back to Slim's point.

I don't think so.

Floyd fought Oscar @ his most comfortable weight. Manny fought Oscar @ a weight in which Oscar hadn't fought @ in 8 years. IIRC correctly, Oscar was having problems making 147 as early as 1999. This is a case of apples to oranges...
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Mar 4 2009, 07:01 PM) [snapback]427051[/snapback]
Tell me, did Manny beat JMM last year by split decision on Fantasy Island or here on Planet Earth?

That decision could have gone either way.


QUOTE(Big Slim @ Mar 4 2009, 07:01 PM) [snapback]427051[/snapback]
Had one judge understood the rules of judging five years ago and scored the first round appropriately, would Manny have beaten JMM by split decision then as well? Or am I concocting some sort of elaborate fantasy?

That decision could have gone either way.

QUOTE(Big Slim @ Mar 4 2009, 07:01 PM) [snapback]427051[/snapback]
Hence, you can make an argument that Pacman should be 2-0 against Marquez. Here. On Earth. Dipshit.

I don't recall saying anything to the contrary. Why don't you LEARN HOW TO READ. And when you're done with that why don't you go find yourself a nice Big Black Dick to suck on, bitch...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Mar 4 2009, 02:57 PM) [snapback]426993[/snapback]
Hey what's up guys.

Just to chime in on this BS article.

One relevant point I'll make before I comment: * - Sadly, The economy is tanking BIG time. cray.gif

* - Every boxer out there knows that being a boxing legend with no paper ain't going to put bacon & eggs on the kitchen table for their family. So, from here on out ...... IT IS PURELY AND SOLELY ABOUT WHAT OPPONENT IS GOING TO BRING IN THE BIGGEST PURSE.

Floyd isn't coming out to fight JMM, not today ....... not tomorrow ...... not ever. Because he doesn't bring enough paper to the equation. The only one's AT PRESENT, who can generate the kind of money Floyd wants is either Hatton or Pac-Man. All this rap by Floyd's crew, is just a ploy to generate interest in an Out-Of-Retirement-Party ..... leading to another huge payday.

UNFORTUNATELY, Even though Mosley just whipped AM ass, he doesn't generate enough paper to warrant a fight with Floyd and Cotto is sadly in the same boat. So the best option for both Mosley & Cotto is to fight each other again. And hope to god that the winner of the Hatton vs Pac-Mac doesn't BITE on a Mega-Payday with Floyd.

If the winner of the Hatton vs Pac-Mac DOES fight Floyd ......... Then both Mosley & Cotto will be looking at small purses for some time to come.

Williams is moving on to BIGGER things {SADLY} ...... I think he's come into the realization that he's not going to be able to make a living at wealterweight .... So, he's presently looking for a weight class where he can make his mark, because it isn't going to happen at wealterweight.

IMHO!!!


very well said...
JD
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 4 2009, 09:20 PM) [snapback]427078[/snapback]
I don't think so.

Floyd fought Oscar @ his most comfortable weight. Manny fought Oscar @ a weight in which Oscar hadn't fought @ in 8 years. IIRC correctly, Oscar was having problems making 147 as early as 1999. This is a case of apples to oranges...


OK, well that covers half the dicussion. Now on the other half.

Floyd would be fighting Marquez at a weight he has NEVER been at, which is two weights above a class that is his biggest class. And...Pacquiao fought Marquez at his most comfortable weight.

Not apples and oranges.

You said: "Should Floyd come out of retirement and dominate JMM - that, IMO, gives Floyd plenty of leverage in the P4P argument deparment. It also provides the Mayweather camp with the perfect angle with which to promote a fight with Paquiao. "I dominated the guy you struggled with in two fights."

Slim said: "But couldn't Manny just come back and say, "I obliterated the guy you barely eked out a split decision against"? It goes both ways."

You said: "That argument would hold water if Pacquiao had fought DLH @ 154lbs. Unfortunately, he didn't so it doesn't."

I said: "So Floyd would be fighting Marquez at 126, 130...or even 135? "

You said: "No. I think if the fight were to happen, Floyd would insist that it happen @ 147 lbs..."

I said: "Right, and I think that kind of goes back to Slim's point."

You said: "I don't think so. Floyd fought Oscar @ his most comfortable weight. Manny fought Oscar @ a weight in which Oscar hadn't fought @ in 8 years."

Now I am saying: "OK, well that covers half the dicussion. Pacquiao fought Marquez at his most comfortable weight. Floyd would be fighting Marquez at a weight two classes above his largest, that he has never fought at, and that is clearly too big for him."
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(JD @ Mar 5 2009, 07:03 AM) [snapback]427120[/snapback]
OK, well that covers half the dicussion. Now on the other half.

Floyd would be fighting Marquez at a weight he has NEVER been at, which is two weights above a class that is his biggest class. And...Pacquiao fought Marquez at his most comfortable weight.

Not apples and oranges.

Agreed.


QUOTE(JD @ Mar 5 2009, 07:03 AM) [snapback]427120[/snapback]
You said: "Should Floyd come out of retirement and dominate JMM - that, IMO, gives Floyd plenty of leverage in the P4P argument deparment. It also provides the Mayweather camp with the perfect angle with which to promote a fight with Paquiao. "I dominated the guy you struggled with in two fights."

[Snippage]

Now I am saying: "OK, well that covers half the dicussion. Pacquiao fought Marquez at his most comfortable weight. Floyd would be fighting Marquez at a weight two classes above his largest, that he has never fought at, and that is clearly too big for him."

I see your point. IMO, there's a difference between the two scenerios. Firstly, in the case of a Marquez/Mayweather fight, you have a situation where Marquez is calling out Mayweather. Secondly, it's not like Mayweather is a true welterweight, he's really a 140lb fighter posing as a welterweight. Marquez walked into the ring @ 140lbs for his last fight. Mayweather walked into the ring @ 146lbs for his last fight. The weight is a non-issue, IMO.

This sharply contrasts with Pacquiao/de la Hoya. In this case you have the suits over @ Golden-Boy picking on a smaller fighter for purely business reasons. Most didn't even think this fight would be competitive. Anyhow, it wasn't a case were Pacquiao called out de la Hoya. Then there's the weight issue. De la Hoya had problems making 147 as early as 1999. On fight night, he was a walking dead man. Now contrast that to Marquez. If Marquez adds one pound to his walk-in-the-ring weight from his last fight, he's a welterweight. Obviously, it's easier to go up in weight than it is to cut back down to a weight you hadn't fought @ in *8* years. Ask Oscar. Ask Roy.
JD
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 5 2009, 11:11 AM) [snapback]427125[/snapback]
Agreed.
I see your point. IMO, there's a difference between the two scenerios. Firstly, in the case of a Marquez/Mayweather fight, you have a situation where Marquez is calling out Mayweather. Secondly, it's not like Mayweather is a true welterweight, he's really a 140lb fighter posing as a welterweight. Marquez walked into the ring @ 140lbs for his last fight. Mayweather walked into the ring @ 146lbs for his last fight. The weight is a non-issue, IMO.

This sharply contrasts with Pacquiao/de la Hoya. In this case you have the suits over @ Golden-Boy picking on a smaller fighter for purely business reasons. Most didn't even think this fight would be competitive. Anyhow, it wasn't a case were Pacquiao called out de la Hoya. Then there's the weight issue. De la Hoya had problems making 147 as early as 1999. On fight night, he was a walking dead man. Now contrast that to Marquez. If Marquez adds one pound to his walk-in-the-ring weight from his last fight, he's a welterweight. Obviously, it's easier to go up in weight than it is to cut back down to a weight you hadn't fought @ in *8* years. Ask Oscar. Ask Roy.


If we call Floyd a natural 140 pounder, which he probably is...I think we can safely call Marquez a natural 130 pounder. I think 135 is pushing it for him, and against a big lightweight (like Castillo or Corrales), he would have problems - there just aren't any right now. But on the flipside, it's not like Pacquiao is a true welter either.

I am not sure that I agree it is easier to just go up in weight, especially when you are fighting at a weight which is above your best already...and by going up, it would mean another 12 pounds of fighting weight.

I don't think the weight can be a non-issue in one instance, and not another. Especially when we try to make it a non-issue in the instance where the guy would be going up 12 pounds to fight in a class he shouldn't be sniffing. In the end, this is all semantics and probably doesn't have an impact on anything, I just think we should be consistent in the way we look at things.

All good.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 4 2009, 10:25 PM) [snapback]427079[/snapback]
That decision could have gone either way.
That decision could have gone either way.
I don't recall saying anything to the contrary.

When did I say the decisions couldn't have gone either way?? You said an argument could be made that JMM is 1-1 or even 2-0 against Manny. I said an argument could also be made that Pacman should be 2-0 against Marquez. This is all. I never referenced the validity of the decisions. You then said that argument could only be made on fantasy island. I subsequently pointed out how wrong you were.

QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 5 2009, 12:11 PM) [snapback]427125[/snapback]
Secondly, it's not like Mayweather is a true welterweight

Neither is Pacquiao.
Method
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Mar 4 2009, 06:08 PM) [snapback]427014[/snapback]
I agree that Mayweather wasn't the draw vs. DLH. Then again, Mayweather-DLH did 2.5 million buys while Pacquiao-DLH did 1.25....


No, you're wrong.

Mayweather/DLH did 2.5 M buys because of DLH and because of the 24.7 countdown seris.

DLH did 1.25M because by this time, DLH had lost so many times, and people had seen enough 24/7's to be wise to the 24.7 gimmick, and to realize that DLH's appeal is/was/has slipping/ed. The guy gets standing o-boos now.

Mayweather helps sell fights as well as any good b-side dance partner. He's not a stand alone draw.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Mar 5 2009, 12:02 PM) [snapback]427131[/snapback]
When did I say the decisions couldn't have gone either way?? You said an argument could be made that JMM is 1-1 or even 2-0 against Manny. I said an argument could also be made that Pacman should be 2-0 against Marquez. This is all. I never referenced the validity of the decisions. You then said that argument could only be made on fantasy island. I subsequently pointed out how wrong you were.

I respect your opinion. However, I just don't see how anyone in their right mind would argue that Pacquiao should be up 2-0 against Marquez. That's grasping @ straws, IMO.
Chi-Town
QUOTE(Method @ Mar 5 2009, 12:27 PM) [snapback]427133[/snapback]
No, you're wrong.

Mayweather/DLH did 2.5 M buys because of DLH and because of the 24.7 countdown seris.

DLH did 1.25M because by this time, DLH had lost so many times, and people had seen enough 24/7's to be wise to the 24.7 gimmick, and to realize that DLH's appeal is/was/has slipping/ed. The guy gets standing o-boos now.

Mayweather helps sell fights as well as any good b-side dance partner. He's not a stand alone draw.



I don't think that's true anymore....his last two fights did crazy numbers. He's a mainstream celebrity now and I think that his next fight will do big numbers regardless of the opponent. Of course he probably won't do 2 million PPVs again, but I definitely think after being on WWE, Dancing w/ The Stars , the fights with DLH and Hatton he turned that corner and became an A side draw. Its not like 2005 or 2006 when only hardcore people knew who he was, everyone knows him now. Matter of fact, I GUARANTEE that when he does sign a contract that the mainstream media will report on it somewhat extensively, even if it's a tuneup.
I don't really respect the way he carries himself but I think saying he can't carry a card on his own is an old, out of date argument.
dbdbdb
QUOTE(Chi-Town @ Mar 5 2009, 06:43 PM) [snapback]427150[/snapback]
I don't think that's true anymore....his last two fights did crazy numbers. He's a mainstream celebrity now and I think that his next fight will do big numbers regardless of the opponent. Of course he probably won't do 2 million PPVs again, but I definitely think after being on WWE, Dancing w/ The Stars , the fights with DLH and Hatton he turned that corner and became an A side draw. Its not like 2005 or 2006 when only hardcore people knew who he was, everyone knows him now. Matter of fact, I GUARANTEE that when he does sign a contract that the mainstream media will report on it somewhat extensively, even if it's a tuneup.
I don't really respect the way he carries himself but I think saying he can't carry a card on his own is an old, out of date argument.


Valid Point!!!!

I'm willing to bet that his return fight with {Insert Name Here} will do very well. Also, I've never seen soo many movie stars, celebrities etc.... at any of Mosley {Mosley vs DLH exception}, Cotto or many other fighter's fights as there have been at Floyds.

His bizaar antics, stunts and impeccable boxing technique have gained him a good size fanbase over time. And its not just fans who would like to witness him win .... but also those who would like to be there for his FIRST lost. {They fill seats too}

So, I agree that the old argument of Floyd NOT being a draw is wearing very thin.
Method
You guys claim it's SO thin but you have absolutely ZERO basis for your OWN claim that this guy is now a A-class (first rate) draw. Put him in w Stevie Forbes and see what kind of numbers he does. The last time he was in with a Stevie Forbes-type guy he did 8,000 in American Airlines Arena in Miami.

Get the fuck out of my face with this bullshit.

Floyd is NOT A-Side. IF he was, people would be throwing A-side money at him to fight whoever, and they're not.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 5 2009, 06:05 PM) [snapback]427146[/snapback]
I respect your opinion. However, I just don't see how anyone in their right mind would argue that Pacquiao should be up 2-0 against Marquez. That's grasping @ straws, IMO.



Both fights were very, very close. I am confused, why could not anyone think Pac should be up 2-0? I am sure many people thought Pac won both fights. Just like many people think they split, and some even think JMM won both. It just depends who you talk to. I personally have no problem with any of the scenerios because thats how close the fights were, and I do not think anyone would be wrong.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(Method @ Mar 5 2009, 08:24 PM) [snapback]427169[/snapback]
You guys claim it's SO thin but you have absolutely ZERO basis for your OWN claim that this guy is now a A-class (first rate) draw. Put him in w Stevie Forbes and see what kind of numbers he does. The last time he was in with a Stevie Forbes-type guy he did 8,000 in American Airlines Arena in Miami.

Get the fuck out of my face with this bullshit.

Floyd is NOT A-Side. IF he was, people would be throwing A-side money at him to fight whoever, and they're not.


You scare me Method, you can be so mean!!! laugh.gif Seriously, I agree with you. Floyd needs a good dance partner to get great PPV numbers. Sure, numbers would be great for a Pacman fight, numbers would be decent for a Mosley fight, and numbers would be terrible for a Forbes fight. Just my opinion.
and the NEW
So basically, you guys are saying if he is not an A-class draw, then his recent competition has been strong? wink.gif
dbdbdb
QUOTE(Method @ Mar 5 2009, 08:24 PM) [snapback]427169[/snapback]
You guys claim it's SO thin but you have absolutely ZERO basis for your OWN claim that this guy is now a A-class (first rate) draw. Put him in w Stevie Forbes and see what kind of numbers he does. The last time he was in with a Stevie Forbes-type guy he did 8,000 in American Airlines Arena in Miami.

Get the fuck out of my face with this bullshit.

Floyd is NOT A-Side. IF he was, people would be throwing A-side money at him to fight whoever, and they're not.


I never stated "A-class (first rate) draw" I stated that he does have a fan-base of both people that want to see him win and people who want to see him lose. But to overlook that reality is bordering on denial IMO.

* And to bring reality into the argument: Unless you were there on the scene interviewing every single person that entered the arena to find out first hand WHO they were there to see ...... IT IS ALL SPECULATION ON YOUR PART.

I don't care how you draw your conclusions ....... IT IS STILL SPECULATION ON YOUR PART.

There is absolutely NO way for anyone here or anywhere else to state with precision WHO people came to see.

THAT"S REALITY!!!!

So, since that's the case ....... A case can be made for both sides of the argument, since no one has first hand DATA detailing who people were really there to see.

*********************

To be clear on my position: I think and know for a fact that it takes TWO to equal a great gate and event ........ NO one would pay good paper to see DLH or any one else enter the ring alone without a dance partner.

And since that's the case ........ No one can argue the ratios of who was there to see who ..... People came\went there to see them both ...... FIGHT EACH OTHER.
Spyder
To be honest for EVERYONE, the DLH-Mayweather EVENT was bigger than either fighter. The hoopla...star gazing...people asking, "Where are you watching 'The Fight'?"...all of that was bigger than either DLH or Mayweather.

THAT is what sold that fight.
Method
Sorry. No it wasn't.
Method


And as far as...

QUOTE
I don't care how you draw your conclusions ....... IT IS STILL SPECULATION ON YOUR PART.


By your logic, then Stevie Forbes could be JUST AS RESPONSIBLE for the 7 figure numbers as ODLH.
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