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Full Version: cotto vs. sugar shane rematch, who wins?
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stillperpetuallygrooving
i think that cotto would beat him for the second time, in similar fashion. The fight will be very close, but at the same time still clearly showing cotto as the winner. shane's stock does not drop, and he still gets big time, top fights in the remaining bouts of his career. cotto goes on to get mayweather...
Yucayeke
QUOTE(stillperpetuallygrooving @ Mar 15 2009, 01:41 PM) [snapback]428219[/snapback]
i think that cotto would beat him for the second time, in similar fashion. The fight will be very close, but at the same time still clearly showing cotto as the winner. shane's stock does not drop, and he still gets big time, top fights in the remaining bouts of his career. cotto goes on to get mayweather...


Not so sure about that one. I saw it a draw first time around and although Cotto looked good in his last outing, he looked good against who? exactly.

extremely competitive fight, but I would like to see how Cotto reacts to a well place uppercut or left hook by someone that will make it hurt while doing it.

Still it is for damn sure that the fans will NOT lose on this one! Of course he has to get through Clottey first, 2009 is shaping up to be one hell of a year isn't it!
Big Slim Sweet
I too scored their first fight a draw, with Shane coming on late seemingly having figured Cotto out somewhat. I'd favor Mosley in the rematch, but agree that like the first fight it'd be close and hotly contested.
stillperpetuallygrooving
i had it 115-113 for cotto...i thought he simply landed the cleaner shots, especially down the stretch in the championship rounds...but yeah the fans would win either way...cotto should win a reasonably tough match against clottey, im saying cotto UD, somewhere in the 116-112 range on the scorecards.
Mean Mister Mustard
I had Cotto winning it 7-5 and then watching it on video had it 8-4. It was a competitive matchup but Cotto clearly beat him. Mosley held a lot during the middle rounds.

As good as Mosley is Cotto knows how to beat him, give him movement, jabs and straight rights. But it would not be a wipeout.
dbdbdb
Mosley was just too inconsistant in their first matchup to win -- He didn't have a planB and in the middle rounds found himself searching for a way to match Cotto's style.

Cotto was consistant, steady and used his skillset well enough to pull out those cruial rounds. {Those middle rounds were the key to winning over the judges} And that's where Mosley faltered.

Mosley fights better when he doesn't bounce around. He's a power fighter and that power comes out when he uses his footwork and bangs away. The bouncing, jab flickering mosley will never beat Cotto -- he has to stay close, use his speed, move in circles and bang away. If Mosley fights Cotto again he should fight him the same way he fought Margarito.

Who wins a second matchup???

It depends on how Mosley fights, because you know what you're going to get from Cotto.

JLUVBABY
this is a styles make fights type of fight.. cotto has the style that beats mosely now thats not to say if they fight X amount of times mosely cant pull a win but cotto's style is bad for mosely..
streetlion1
I had Cotto winning the first fight 115-113...but if they had gave the fight to Shane I wouldnt have been upset it was a good fight. In a rematch I think I would be on the fence regarding a prediction....I could see the fight going either way BUT Shane does have the best trainer in boxing now...would Naz be the difference? Having him would make me lean towards Mosley.

Either way it would be a good fight and should happen somewhere down the line.
Lil-lightsout
As a Mosley nuthugger, he will stop Cotto. No doubt about it. After the mental damage that was done already by AM, once Shane applies the heat, Cotto will fold again. I guarantee it! Cotto will make it competative at first, but Mosley's improved training and confidence will be the change this time around.
kidbazooka1
Even though the first fight wa close Cotto has the skill to beat Shane if a rematch happens Cotto takes it easier this time around.

Cotto by UD.
Thegreatequalizer
i think mosley will look for a late ko and i think it will probably happen.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Maybe being off the 'jin and tonics' has helped Shane. LOL

Fighting is such a mental sport. I love how many casual fans or anti-boxing critics don't get that and only look at the physical aspects.

Cotto has been stopped in brutal fashion by a guy that Shane went on to destroy, plaster or no plaster. Shane has never been dealt to like that in his career. To me in a tight fight it is now the difference maker. I'd say Shane goes after those demons in Cotto's head in a big way.

If Shane makes Cotto fight the full 3 minutes of every round it won't go 12 rounds.
torvix2000
However, when Mosley found out that the correct way to fight Cotto was to simply pressure him, it was already too late. He tried to box Cotto in the first half. But he was already pressuring Cotto in the later rounds and he was successful backing Cotto up. I've felt that Cotto got hurt, he just didn't show it.

In the rematch, I can see Mosley putting the pressure on Cotto. Now that he knows Cotto can't really hurt him. I think Mosley probably thought Cotto's a monster... that Cotto would break him down little by little. But it was too late when he found out it wasn't the case.

So knockout or UD for Mosley in their rematch.
torvix2000
QUOTE(the ollie reed fan club @ Mar 16 2009, 08:23 AM) [snapback]428351[/snapback]
If Shane makes Cotto fight the full 3 minutes of every round it won't go 12 rounds.


I also see it this way. It wasn't a smart move to try to box Cotto in the first place. LOL! I've mistyped Cotto as Cotton. Might become a nick. Cotton because he got knocked out like cotton.
torvix2000
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 16 2009, 10:42 AM) [snapback]428363[/snapback]
No. Cotto slowed down as well. It wasn't as simple as Mosley just turning it on, it was a combination of both. Cotto gassed and slowed down a bit, and Mosley turned it up. It wasn't as simple as you put it.


Well, we'll just have to wait for this fight to happen again.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 16 2009, 05:27 AM) [snapback]428356[/snapback]
I think some people forget, that the Mosley that showed up against Margarito won't be the same that will show up against Cotto. Not saying Mosley can't win, but I get the impression that they think the fight will be totally different after seeing the Margarito fight.
For one, Mosley was able to load up on those right hands on a flat footed fighter who takes about a day to complete a punch. Mosley can load up multiple big shots and land by the time Margarito finishes one. That made him look great.
Cotto can just about match Mosley for speed, as I didn't see a significant difference in speed when they fought, he posses a jab and will make Mosley box more. When you get hit yourself, it will make you think a little more and you will be more selective when throwing. Styles make fights, Margarito has the style that allowed Mosley to do some of those things, Cotto doesn't.


Good point Fitz. But I see Mosley really pressuring Cotto this time from the get go. He seen he can be broke and hurt, Mosley will be more inclined to fight more and not try and box as much this time. I just do not see Shane letting Cotto fight at his pace this time. Plus Cotto knows in the back of his mind what happened before against AM, I personally do not think he will ever truly recover from that. This sport is more mental than physical. Meldrick Taylor was never the same after Chavez I. I look forward to seeing Cotto in a really tough fight to see how he responds. Also, looking at Mosley's perspective, when they first fought, Shane was fighting an undefeated fighter in Cotto and he really did not know many intangibles about Cotto. Now he knows full well about what happened to him with AM, and I think he will take advantage of that. And even when Shane fought AM, he made a point right off the bat that he was not going to run from him. He stood in front of him and loaded up to make a point to AM, YOU ARE IN FOR A FIGHT! I think he will go after Cotto right away and make a statement to him right away to tell him this is not going to be like the first fight.

I always thought Jack was holding back Shane too, I can not wait to see who he fights next and to see what he looks like with Naz in his corner. It would be nice to see Mosley get a rematch with Cotto sometime soon, and a fight with Mayweather. But who really knows what the heck is going to happen with all these fighters and matchups.
dbdbdb
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Mar 16 2009, 11:21 AM) [snapback]428377[/snapback]
Good point Fitz. But I see Mosley really pressuring Cotto this time from the get go. He seen he can be broke and hurt, Mosley will be more inclined to fight more and not try and box as much this time. I just do not see Shane letting Cotto fight at his pace this time. Plus Cotto knows in the back of his mind what happened before against AM, I personally do not think he will ever truly recover from that. This sport is more mental than physical. Meldrick Taylor was never the same after Chavez I. I look forward to seeing Cotto in a really tough fight to see how he responds. Also, looking at Mosley's perspective, when they first fought, Shane was fighting an undefeated fighter in Cotto and he really did not know many intangibles about Cotto. Now he knows full well about what happened to him with AM, and I think he will take advantage of that. And even when Shane fought AM, he made a point right off the bat that he was not going to run from him. He stood in front of him and loaded up to make a point to AM, YOU ARE IN FOR A FIGHT! I think he will go after Cotto right away and make a statement to him right away to tell him this is not going to be like the first fight.

I always thought Jack was holding back Shane too, I can not wait to see who he fights next and to see what he looks like with Naz in his corner. It would be nice to see Mosley get a rematch with Cotto sometime soon, and a fight with Mayweather. But who really knows what the heck is going to happen with all these fighters and matchups.


I think both Cotto & Margarito left something in that ring when they fought. IMHO Cotto may have softened AM up, with all the bombs he was hitting him with. And I do believe Cotto hits alot harder than Mosley. The Margarito that fought Shane didn't seem to have the same ability to take a punch as he did prior to fighting Cotto.

I also agree, that Mosley Sr. was holding Shane back. It takes a true trainer to bring out the best in a fighter -- Shane was a naturally gifted fighter. So Mosley Sr. didn't really have to do much to keep Shane on point. BUT to bring out the best in Shane -- He needs a trainer who's capable of taking his fighter to the next level. And I think Naz was a very good move for Shane.
!
Douchebag
What people seem to forget is that at the start of their first fight Shane WAS trying to pressure Cotto and was still getting his ass beat, then in the middle rounds he tried to outbox Cotto and that didn't work either only when Cotto was gassed did Shane start stepping it up and to me those rounds where toss up because Cotto was still landing the cleaner shots.
frankypc
Cotto was kicking mosley's ass, in round 6 i think it was mosley came to the corner and his father asked him how he was and the looks on shanes face was like WTF is going on lol, after that round all he did was hold cotto and wrestle as he did with margo, cotto got tired and shane took notice and pressured cotto. But as some others have said, winning a few rounds in the end doesnt change that he was inconsistent in the early and middle rounds.


I do think a rematch could be won by mosley, and naz might help. but i still go with cotto.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(the ollie reed fan club @ Mar 16 2009, 04:23 AM) [snapback]428351[/snapback]
Maybe being off the 'jin and tonics' has helped Shane. LOL

Fighting is such a mental sport. I love how many casual fans or anti-boxing critics don't get that and only look at the physical aspects.

Cotto has been stopped in brutal fashion by a guy that Shane went on to destroy, plaster or no plaster. Shane has never been dealt to like that in his career. To me in a tight fight it is now the difference maker. I'd say Shane goes after those demons in Cotto's head in a big way.

If Shane makes Cotto fight the full 3 minutes of every round it won't go 12 rounds.


I agree. People forget the wear and tear on a fighter after such a brutal ko. Especially if the Clottey fight happens. Cotto may not survive and if he does it will be even more wear and tear which Shane will take full advantage of. The Shane who fought Margarito was a more focused, intense Shane with a great corner that now includes B-Hops ringside coaching.
Mean Mister Mustard
Conscience and Franky bring up some very good points. Mosley was getting tagged bad in those first 8 rounds and it wasn't until Cotto gassed that he beagn to have success. Other than that he was just landing an occasional looping right and wrestling a whole bunch just like in the AM fight.

Naz or no Naz Mosley will have trouble against Cotto. He could fight like he did in the AM fight but Cotto would just counter him more.

By the way, in the Cotto-Mosley fight at one point Jack Mosley tells his son to "Go out there and have fun" yeah great advice.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Mar 16 2009, 06:25 PM) [snapback]428424[/snapback]
Conscience and Franky bring up some very good points. Mosley was getting tagged bad in those first 8 rounds and it wasn't until Cotto gassed that he beagn to have success. Other than that he was just landing an occasional looping right and wrestling a whole bunch just like in the AM fight.

Naz or no Naz Mosley will have trouble against Cotto. He could fight like he did in the AM fight but Cotto would just counter him more.

By the way, in the Cotto-Mosley fight at one point Jack Mosley tells his son to "Go out there and have fun" yeah great advice.



That will be the difference in the rematch. Naz is a better strategic trainer than Jack Mosley and with the addition of B-Hop Shane is a better fighter. Jack didn't give Shane any advice that's why no adjustments were made but you better believe Naz will have a great plan.
STEVENSKI
Jack Mosley gives the best advice ever.

"Go out there, do some things"

"You might be ahead Shane"

What a legend.

Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(STEVENSKI @ Mar 16 2009, 09:22 PM) [snapback]428456[/snapback]
Jack Mosley gives the best advice ever.

"Go out there, do some things"

"You might be ahead Shane"

What a legend.


"Why aren't you using your legs?"

"Go out there and have fun"

"Do the Roy Jones thing."
STEVENSKI
Exactly. Forgot about some of those gems.


The thing is if FMsnr says things like that in his crackhead voice (yeah yeah I know he is no crackhead) it sounds funny.

When Jack says it he says it serious like.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(The Conscience @ Mar 16 2009, 01:37 PM) [snapback]428393[/snapback]
Shane WAS trying to pressure Cotto and was still getting his ass beat


QUOTE(frankypc @ Mar 16 2009, 04:44 PM) [snapback]428421[/snapback]
Cotto was kicking mosley's ass

Cotto was outboxing Mosley early to midway through the fight, but an ass-kicking? You guys are crazy. Perhaps you saw it that way because the Judah fight was still fresh in your minds and you assumed Cotto was going to keep turning up the heat until he stopped Mosley? I remember at one point (I think around round 6 or 7) I thought to myself Cotto might be the first guy to stop Shane. But then the fight started to change course shortly afterwards.

In the end it was as close as a fight can be. Punchstat numbers I believe were dead even. In trying to say that some of us are focusing too much on the last third of the fight you might be allowing yourselves to do the opposite, acting like the first part of the fight is what really counts. What makes anyone think Cotto won't get gassed the next time as well? What makes anyone think Cotto will be mentally stronger for the rematch now that's he's been KO'd? In the first fight he really had that classic 'I've never been beaten and never will' mentality. And what makes anyone think Naaz can't possibly help Shane make in-fight adjustments in a way that Jack hopelessly couldn't?

Other than the potential age factor, I really think all signs point to Shane having the advantages second time around.
D-MARV
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Mar 17 2009, 11:18 AM) [snapback]428504[/snapback]
I remember at one point (I think around round 6 or 7) I thought to myself Cotto might be the first guy to stop Shane. But then the fight started to change course shortly afterwards.

That's exactly what I said to myself. Then all of a sudden, Mosley just turned it on.
frankypc
I thinks that is our discrepancy then, i dont think he turned anything on, he was getting tagged alot, and because of his experience he wasnt going to end like judah, so he did his best hatton impersonation and started holding for dear life, and cotto kept getting more and more tired and as a true veteran he took advantage of that.

But wasnt about him turning anything on, its more about as others have said, cotto getting tired.


(By the way, im just joking about the hatton impersonationg thing, he obviously dint do it that extreme)
Big Slim Sweet
Frank, I would say "holding for dear life" is a bit extreme as well, but otherwise I see your points.

My feeling is that if they fight again, Cotto will gas again, and Mosley will be able to capitalize on it this time with greater success. One, he'll be expecting it and possibly able to recognize it sooner; Two, with Naaz in his corner he won't be on his own again (as he was really for years with Jack); Three, with the Margarito fight having happened - legit or not - Cotto's resistance is likely to be weaker.
frankypc
Lol, true, the holding for dear life it a bit melodramatic. And i do think in a cotto rematch mosley would resume the holding from the beginning in hopes of getting cotto out of gss earlier. But i do think that cotto will put more effort in his stamina from now on. Of course thats my assumption because i think he is trying to make the adjustments necesarry to improve even more, and he has a great personal trainner that probably was insisting on that earlier but until the margarito fight maybe cotto wasnt listening who knows?

I think mosley can win a rematch, mosley is such an experience and talented fighter that not giving him a chance would be plain stupid, but i dont think it will happen, because cotto was also in that ring and will know in what areas he should improve to come out with the victory again.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Mar 17 2009, 11:18 AM) [snapback]428504[/snapback]
Cotto was outboxing Mosley early to midway through the fight, but an ass-kicking? You guys are crazy. Perhaps you saw it that way because the Judah fight was still fresh in your minds and you assumed Cotto was going to keep turning up the heat until he stopped Mosley? I remember at one point (I think around round 6 or 7) I thought to myself Cotto might be the first guy to stop Shane. But then the fight started to change course shortly afterwards.

In the end it was as close as a fight can be. Punchstat numbers I believe were dead even. In trying to say that some of us are focusing too much on the last third of the fight you might be allowing yourselves to do the opposite, acting like the first part of the fight is what really counts. What makes anyone think Cotto won't get gassed the next time as well? What makes anyone think Cotto will be mentally stronger for the rematch now that's he's been KO'd? In the first fight he really had that classic 'I've never been beaten and never will' mentality. And what makes anyone think Naaz can't possibly help Shane make in-fight adjustments in a way that Jack hopelessly couldn't?

Other than the potential age factor, I really think all signs point to Shane having the advantages second time around.


That is exaclty the point, it was the early and mid rounds that won the fight for Cotto. Other than that I agree with you.
xxxxxx
QUOTE(stillperpetuallygrooving @ Mar 15 2009, 08:41 AM) [snapback]428219[/snapback]
i think that cotto would beat him for the second time, in similar fashion. The fight will be very close, but at the same time still clearly showing cotto as the winner. shane's stock does not drop, and he still gets big time, top fights in the remaining bouts of his career. cotto goes on to get mayweather...



Mosley wins the rematch.
Douchebag
QUOTE(xxxxxx @ Mar 19 2009, 10:09 AM) [snapback]428833[/snapback]
Mosley wins the rematch.



Thank you for that well thought out analysis.
xxxxxx
QUOTE(The Conscience @ Mar 19 2009, 09:16 AM) [snapback]428834[/snapback]
Thank you for that well thought out analysis.



your welcome.
Douchebag
QUOTE(xxxxxx @ Mar 19 2009, 01:31 PM) [snapback]428861[/snapback]
your welcome.


Awesome
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(xxxxxx @ Mar 19 2009, 10:09 AM) [snapback]428833[/snapback]
Mosley wins the rematch.


Yep. Cuts through the crap and states the obvious.
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