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Nay_Sayer
Head to head, who has the better record?

Hatton's best wins, IMO:

Kostya Tszyu KO11
Luis Collazo UD12
Jose Luis Castillo KO4
Carlos Maussa KO9


Wlad's best wins, IMO:

Chris Byrd UD12
Samuel Peter UD12
Calvin Brock KO7
Sultan Ibragimov UD12


Is there any comparison to be made between the two?



JLUVBABY
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 17 2009, 10:33 AM) [snapback]428506[/snapback]
Head to head, who has the better record?

Hatton's best wins, IMO:

Kostya Tszyu KO11
Luis Collazo UD12
Jose Luis Castillo KO4
Carlos Maussa KO9
Wlad's best wins, IMO:

Chris Byrd UD12
Samuel Peter UD12
Calvin Brock KO7
Sultan Ibragimov UD12
Is there any comparison to be made between the two?


p4p wlad klit has over all better skill level and pedigree for the game... p4p meaning if this fight could take place and they both weighed 160 but their attributes stayed the same wlad would bust hatton up...
D-MARV
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 17 2009, 11:33 AM) [snapback]428506[/snapback]
Head to head, who has the better record?

Hatton's best wins, IMO:

Kostya Tszyu KO11
Luis Collazo UD12
Jose Luis Castillo KO4
Carlos Maussa KO9
Wlad's best wins, IMO:

Chris Byrd UD12
Samuel Peter UD12
Calvin Brock KO7
Sultan Ibragimov UD12
Is there any comparison to be made between the two?


Hatton's Record

Tszyu was getting Older... And that was a poorly managed fight

Castillo... WAYYYYYYYYYY past his prime. He just showed up for a Paycheck

Collazo... Could have gone either way. Collazo has yet to beat anyone of significance

Maussa I guess we should rank Manuel Garnica as a P4Per too.



Wlad's Record

Beat 3 out of 4 in thier primes. Chris Byrd was not in his prime but he thouroughly dominated.

Other notable wins for Wlad include:

Lamon Brewster
KO of Jameel McCline
KO of Monte Barrett
Chris Byrd (1st fight)

You can argue Hatton being over Wlad in a P4P sense but comparing resumes isn't going to get it done. In Fact, CEO... Im starting to feel you. I don't know why I have Hatton in my top 10. I'll remove him until after the Pac fight. I guess Im just a fan of his.




The CEO
I like how you say "P4P....."..and then ask, who has the better record listing the decisions...lol...way to try to twist it into being favorable for your illogical Hate...I mean point of view...

I'm not gonna waste my time any longer than I have to....so from Tszyu for Hatton....from Peter for Klitschko....this is their last 8 fights respectively....looking at backgrounds, results, AND performances.



Kostya Tszyu - Tszyu quits after being the victim of illegal tactics and blatant homecooking all night long....this is Hatton's best win, and most controversial at the same time....let's look at what he's really done since this fight...

Carlos Maussa - you listed this as a best win...lol, The Maussa hangs with and even chops Hatton's face up before getting knocked out by a leaping left hook....

Luis Collazo - life and death struggle for Hatton, many think Hatton lost.

Juan Urango - limited brawler takes it to Hatton's body in the 5th, and Hatton hugs out the rest of the fight...clear win though...

Jose Luis Castillo - What was Castillo's physical and financial status? Yeah...WORN and BROKE. Castillo knew he was not going to receive any compensation for that fight....lol

Floyd Mayweather Jr - didn't deserve this fight in the 1st place, Hatton is picked like a cherry and paid millions to lose his 0 and get absolutely Owned.

Juan Lazcano - looked like crap in this fight, got rocked by a little old light puncher, aided by ref, but wins clearly...

Paul Malignaggi - Malignaggi barely even threw punches in this fight....and is HE special to begin with? Hardly...I'd say he's a B fighter at his best....sure can take a beating though...





Samuel Peter - everyone thought this guy was a BEAST when they fought...Wlad struggles and wins a close, but clear one...

Chris Byrd - 2ND win over Byrd...a most Dominating victory over the once highly regarded boxer...this is when I recognized Wladdy a Top 10-15 P4P boxer...

Calvin Brock - regarded as The Future of the heavies at the time...Wlad puts him to sleep with one shot and walks over him like a bum in the street.

Ray Austin - beats the tough, limited heavy with one hand....on PURPOSE.

Lamon Brewster - AVENGES his knockout loss convincingly.

Sultan Ibragimov - touted Heavy...better than Maussa on Hatton's 8.

Tony Thompson - another average heavy...gets knocked out.

Hasim Rahman - one hit wonder shows up for paycheck...but once again...it's better than that Maussa win you listed....kinda like the Castillo win for Hatton in that Castillo and Rahman didn't wanna be there...



Your opinion is wrong.....end of story.

Hatton a current "P4P boxer"....LOL...yeah right....put these two in a vacuum at the same size and builds, and Hatton gets CRUSHED.......which was MY point all along in that other thread...
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 17 2009, 12:24 PM) [snapback]428522[/snapback]
Hatton's Record

Tszyu was getting Older... And that was a poorly managed fight
Castillo... WAYYYYYYYYYY past his prime. He just showed up for a Paycheck
Collazo... Could have gone either way. Collazo has yet to beat anyone of significance
Maussa I guess we should rank Manuel Garnica as a P4Per too.

Tszyu was coming off KO victories over Sharba Mitchell [a fight most experts picked Mitchell to win], James Leija, and handing Zab Judah his first loss KO2.

Castillo was a little long in the tooth but was coming off a KO victory over Diego Corrales two years earlier. In addition, Castillo is by far superior to anyone Klitscho has ever faced with the notable exception of Chris Byrd [a blown up MW].

Collazo hasn't beat anyone of signicance but the exact same is true for ALL of Klitscho's opponents except for Chris Byrd. Even Still, Collazo was a titlist in the deepest division in all of Boxing when Hatton faced him.

Maussa was coming off the brutal KO over [Emanuel Steward trained] Vivian Harris, capturing the WBA title.


QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 17 2009, 12:24 PM) [snapback]428522[/snapback]
Wlad's Record

Beat 3 out of 4 in thier primes. Chris Byrd was not in his prime but he thouroughly dominated.

Would you care to name exactly *who* were those "3 out of 4 in thier primes" that Klitscho beat?
The CEO
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Mar 17 2009, 01:43 PM) [snapback]428514[/snapback]
p4p wlad klit has over all better skill level and pedigree for the game... p4p meaning if this fight could take place and they both weighed 160 but their attributes stayed the same wlad would bust hatton up...


Ofcourse...and this is cliche...but "anyone who knows Boxing should know this.."


QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 17 2009, 02:24 PM) [snapback]428522[/snapback]
Hatton's Record

Tszyu was getting Older... And that was a poorly managed fight

Castillo... WAYYYYYYYYYY past his prime. He just showed up for a Paycheck

Collazo... Could have gone either way. Collazo has yet to beat anyone of significance

Maussa I guess we should rank Manuel Garnica as a P4Per too.
Wlad's Record

Beat 3 out of 4 in thier primes. Chris Byrd was not in his prime but he thouroughly dominated.

Other notable wins for Wlad include:

Lamon Brewster
KO of Jameel McCline
KO of Monte Barrett
Chris Byrd (1st fight)

You can argue Hatton being over Wlad in a P4P sense but comparing resumes isn't going to get it done. In Fact, CEO... Im starting to feel you. I don't know why I have Hatton in my top 10. I'll remove him until after the Pac fight. I guess Im just a fan of his.


EVERYONE should fucking feel me on this, marv....lol....everything must be considered....I get pissed having to type all that shit out again because I've been successfully discrediting Hatton for YEARS...it's plain as day what the deal is here if you've followed the sport closely for a long time and are objective....

The only reason Hatton is on The Ring's P4P list is because it's owned by Golden Boy Promotions, and he's DLH's comedian, wannabe sidekick who draws big money....


I won't be replying anymore in here other than to gloat....

SAY I'M RIGHT, NAY!....SAY IT!!
D-MARV
QUOTE

Tszyu was coming off KO victories over Sharba Mitchell [a fight most experts picked Mitchell to win], James Leija, and handing Zab Judah his first loss KO2
.
LOL dude... The Judah fight was 4 years prior! LOL

QUOTE
Castillo was a little long in the tooth but was coming off a KO victory over Diego Corrales two years earlier.
LOL You did it again. OK if we are playing this game... Wlad KO'd Mercer when Mercer was coming off his war with Lennox Lewis in which he pushed Lewis to the limit.


Collazo hasn't beat anyone of signicance but the exact same is true for ALL of Klitscho's opponents except for Chris Byrd. Even Still, Collazo was a titlist in the deepest division in all of Boxing when Hatton faced him. Well... By you're definition, Collazo was only a paper titlest. So who cares?

QUOTE
Maussa was coming off the brutal KO over [Emanuel Steward trained] Vivian Harris, capturing the WBA title.


Maussa was OVERRATED and you know it! If you Give Hatton credit for that then you need to give Wlad credit for Thompson and Ibragiimov!

QUOTE
Would you care to name exactly *who* were those "3 out of 4 in thier primes" that Klitscho beat?

Why? you already mentioned them in the original post


Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Mar 17 2009, 12:40 PM) [snapback]428527[/snapback]
Samuel Peter - everyone thought this guy was a BEAST when they fought...Wlad struggles and wins a close, but clear one...

Chris Byrd - 2ND win over Byrd...a most Dominating victory over the once highly regarded boxer...this is when I recognized Wladdy a Top 10-15 P4P boxer...

Calvin Brock - regarded as The Future of the heavies at the time...Wlad puts him to sleep with one shot and walks over him like a bum in the street.

Ray Austin - beats the tough, limited heavy with one hand....on PURPOSE.

Lamon Brewster - AVENGES his knockout loss convincingly.

Sultan Ibragimov - touted Heavy...better than Maussa on Hatton's 8.

Tony Thompson - another average heavy...gets knocked out.

Hasim Rahman - one hit wonder shows up for paycheck...but once again...it's better than that Maussa win you listed....kinda like the Castillo win for Hatton in that Castillo and Rahman didn't wanna be there...
Your opinion is wrong.....end of story.

You've got to be fucking kidding me...

Samuel Peter - Gets dropped by Jameel fucking McCline *3* times, but manages to drop the little Klit *3* times. Lays down like a tomato can for older brother Vitaly.

Chris Byrd - Ole man gets KO'ed by the Klit, two fights later gets KO'ed by a LHW NOBODY has ever heard of...

Calvin Brock - GREEN like Kermit the Frog, hasn't beaten anyone of note...

Ray Austin - Need I even go there?

Lamon Brewster - *15* month layoff and *eye surgery*. 'Nuff said...

Sultan Ibragimov - Could have been a nice win for Klit if it weren't for the fact that they BOTH spent twelve rounds playing gay swordfighting with each other...

Tony Thompson - 6'7" sparring partner is his only claim to fame.

Hasim Rahman - You're kidding, right? Two words here: Oleg Maskaev...


Sorry, but the Klit's resume doesn't measure up.
The CEO
It's "You've got to be fucking kidding me..." every time.....laugh.gif...Nay HAS to be doing this for fun.

I win......you lose.

Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 17 2009, 01:12 PM) [snapback]428535[/snapback]
Why? you already mentioned them in the original post

With the exception of Chris Byrd, those guys are ALL shit. I don't see how the Klitschko crowd can hang their hats on the Chris Byrd victories. What does that say about your guy? That he beat a guy who a] Lennox Lewis refused to lower himself to fight, and b] is a blown up middleweight lacking HW puching power and was outweighed by 30 pounds? Is that really something to be proud of as a Klitschko fan? If the Chris Byrd wins represent Klitschkos best then they're pretty WEAK.

Ike Ibeabuchi blasted out Chris Byrd when Byrd was at his fighting best. The Klit couldn't manage that feat until Byrd was an ole man....
D-MARV
Yeah... Im getting the feeling that he's just fucking with us.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Mar 17 2009, 01:23 PM) [snapback]428539[/snapback]
It's "You've got to be fucking kidding me..." every time.....laugh.gif...Nay HAS to be doing this for fun.

I win......you lose.

Only @ the Special Olympics....wink.gif
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 17 2009, 01:28 PM) [snapback]428541[/snapback]
Yeah... Im getting the feeling that he's just fucking with us.

I'm guessing you guys are younger, maybe mid twenties to early thirties?

I've been watching HW Boxing since the Mike Tyson era. I've seen some good heavyweights come and go. Wlad isn't one of them...
D-MARV
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 17 2009, 03:49 PM) [snapback]428544[/snapback]
I'm guessing you guys are younger, maybe mid twenties to early thirties?

I've been watching HW Boxing since the Mike Tyson era. I've seen some good heavyweights come and go. Wlad isn't one of them...

Im not saying Wlad is a all time great... Im saying that he should be up for consideration for the P4P list AND his resume is better than HAtton's.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 17 2009, 01:56 PM) [snapback]428545[/snapback]
Im not saying Wlad is a all time great... Im saying that he should be up for consideration for the P4P list AND his resume is better than HAtton's.

If the HW division was deep like WW is, then you'd have a point. However, the fact is, the HW division equates to a mound of shit. There's nothing impressive in being able to sit atop that mound in the fashion W Klit does so. It's not like he's Tyson, ruling a shitty division with an iron fist. I could respect Tyson for doing was a REAL HW champ is supposed to do, take out the garbage.

Klit doesn't take out the garbage. He *IS* the garbage...
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Mar 17 2009, 01:40 PM) [snapback]428527[/snapback]
Chris Byrd - 2ND win over Byrd...a most Dominating victory over the once highly regarded boxer...this is when I recognized Wladdy a Top 10-15 P4P boxer...

I don't know...Wlad was like the equivalent of 2-3 weight divisions heavier than Byrd. I can't really give him any p4p points for obliterating the little guy, especially since the little guy likely had his mind on some REAL punishment he was set to receive from that screaming banshee wife of his when he got home.

Hatton got on the p4p radar cause he was undefeated when he stopped Tszyu, who most folks had in their top 5 p4p at the time. No matter how disgraceful the circumstances of that win were - and they were absolutely fucking disgraceful - it remains by far the best win of either man's (Hatton & Wlad) career.

Also, getting KTFO by Floyd Mayweather is a better look - turnbuckle aside, lol - than getting mopped up by the likes of Ross Purity, Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster. I know we're going on five years now, but it's hard to look past those utterly humiliating losses. Wlad may have even been on his way to getting KO'd by Touch of Crap in their fight later that year as well.

Gotta side with Nay Sayer here. Though I agree Hatton's record is overrated (one of the reasons I hate the fact PBF chose to fight him over Mosley). If you made the two the same weight you'd have Hatton at about 6'3" 240. I think his roughhouse tactics would be too much for Wlad, who's inner vagina I believe would blossom to the surface once again.
JLUVBABY
whats funny is the same thing being said about klitschko is the same thing that was being said about lennox before him... he isnt a champ that captivates the general public so i guess i cant blame you guys i just know a good fighter when i see one and he is most def. one... people felt the same about larry holmes back in the day and he is most def at least a top 5 heavy of all time and i rank him 3... not putting wlad into that same catagory but just saying he is better than what i think some on this board want o give him credit for.. he for sure is not garbage..
BigG
QUOTE
not putting wlad into that same catagory but just saying he is better than what i think some on this board want o give him credit for.. he for sure is not garbage..


Wlad is a very good Heavyweight fighter..but definitely not a GREAT like Holmes. Holmes had more skills and speed and was tougher. Wlad more power in his right hand.
Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 17 2009, 03:17 PM) [snapback]428538[/snapback]
You've got to be fucking kidding me...

Samuel Peter - Gets dropped by Jameel fucking McCline *3* times, but manages to drop the little Klit *3* times. Lays down like a tomato can for older brother Vitaly.

Chris Byrd - Ole man gets KO'ed by the Klit, two fights later gets KO'ed by a LHW NOBODY has ever heard of...

Calvin Brock - GREEN like Kermit the Frog, hasn't beaten anyone of note...

Ray Austin - Need I even go there?

Lamon Brewster - *15* month layoff and *eye surgery*. 'Nuff said...

Sultan Ibragimov - Could have been a nice win for Klit if it weren't for the fact that they BOTH spent twelve rounds playing gay swordfighting with each other...

Tony Thompson - 6'7" sparring partner is his only claim to fame.

Hasim Rahman - You're kidding, right? Two words here: Oleg Maskaev...
Sorry, but the Klit's resume doesn't measure up.


the problem is that you can't make hatton's resume any better than this. castillo had failed to make weight on his last two fights and was previously a lightweight. maussa? paper champ. etc. etc. it's no better than klits.
Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Mar 17 2009, 06:35 PM) [snapback]428575[/snapback]
whats funny is the same thing being said about klitschko is the same thing that was being said about lennox before him... he isnt a champ that captivates the general public so i guess i cant blame you guys i just know a good fighter when i see one and he is most def. one... people felt the same about larry holmes back in the day and he is most def at least a top 5 heavy of all time and i rank him 3... not putting wlad into that same catagory but just saying he is better than what i think some on this board want o give him credit for.. he for sure is not garbage..


one thing to take into account is that wlad has the much better technique and wins in a more impressive fashion than hatton's brawling and sometimes ugly (but entertaining) style.
The CEO
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 17 2009, 03:49 PM) [snapback]428544[/snapback]
I'm guessing you guys are younger, maybe mid twenties to early thirties?

I've been watching HW Boxing since the Mike Tyson era. I've seen some good heavyweights come and go. Wlad isn't one of them...


I'm late 30s...been watching avidly since like Ali-Norton....you're like a babe in the woods...

Wlad is a very good Heavyweight...and a very good boxer....a better boxer than Hatton....period.


QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 17 2009, 03:56 PM) [snapback]428545[/snapback]
Im not saying Wlad is a all time great... Im saying that he should be up for consideration for the P4P list AND his resume is better than HAtton's.


No...he's not...he's not near Lennox level yet either....people can bash his chin all they want...I'd say it's average for a heavy.....but his Boxing skills can NOT be denied...

My point was and is that Lil' Klit is a better "P4P boxer" than Hatton....and that his style is Hatton's worst nightmare...his own clinching strength, that jab, that hook off the jab...the right hand....FORGET ABOUT IT.

Hatton would get SLAUGHTERED in this hypothetical matchup.


QUOTE(Big Slim @ Mar 17 2009, 04:22 PM) [snapback]428549[/snapback]
I don't know...Wlad was like the equivalent of 2-3 weight divisions heavier than Byrd. I can't really give him any p4p points for obliterating the little guy, especially since the little guy likely had his mind on some REAL punishment he was set to receive from that screaming banshee wife of his when he got home.

Hatton got on the p4p radar cause he was undefeated when he stopped Tszyu, who most folks had in their top 5 p4p at the time. No matter how disgraceful the circumstances of that win were - and they were absolutely fucking disgraceful - it remains by far the best win of either man's (Hatton & Wlad) career.

Also, getting KTFO by Floyd Mayweather is a better look - turnbuckle aside, lol - than getting mopped up by the likes of Ross Purity, Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster. I know we're going on five years now, but it's hard to look past those utterly humiliating losses. Wlad may have even been on his way to getting KO'd by Touch of Crap in their fight later that year as well.

Gotta side with Nay Sayer here. Though I agree Hatton's record is overrated (one of the reasons I hate the fact PBF chose to fight him over Mosley). If you made the two the same weight you'd have Hatton at about 6'3" 240. I think his roughhouse tactics would be too much for Wlad, who's inner vagina I believe would blossom to the surface once again.


The Tszyu "W" IS the biggest single win of both their careers...but the circumstances of how he gained that win MUST be taken into consideration....and his performances since then...

Hatton may have had some humiliating losses too if he wouldn't have been so blatantly protected.......look at his resume BEFORE Tszyu....it's outright laughable, Slim...he fought some bum named Mark Ramsey TWICE....several fights apart.....he has one of, if not the most, padded resume(s) I've seen in modern times....and what has he really done in the last 4 years that makes him remain in Top 10 P4P consideration....nothing, I say.

Regardless....you can side with Nay on records and disappoint me if you want...you know how cool we are....lol....but to me, the answer is most simple....Wladmir Klitschko has the better career, and is straight up a P4P better boxer than Hatton....


QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Mar 17 2009, 06:35 PM) [snapback]428575[/snapback]
whats funny is the same thing being said about klitschko is the same thing that was being said about lennox before him... he isnt a champ that captivates the general public so i guess i cant blame you guys i just know a good fighter when i see one and he is most def. one... people felt the same about larry holmes back in the day and he is most def at least a top 5 heavy of all time and i rank him 3... not putting wlad into that same catagory but just saying he is better than what i think some on this board want o give him credit for.. he for sure is not garbage..


That's true...Wladimir gets killed around here....and I think you know me...I'm not a superfan of ANYBODY'S....I hate damn near all of 'em...lol.....the ONLY reason I'm arguing about this with a little fervor is because Nay thinks (or is acting like) Hatton is better than Klitschko in a P4P boxer sense...


QUOTE(Thegreatequalizer @ Mar 17 2009, 06:53 PM) [snapback]428579[/snapback]
one thing to take into account is that wlad has the much better technique and wins in a more impressive fashion than hatton's brawling and sometimes ugly (but entertaining) style.


You'd think everyone would take that into account...but no.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 17 2009, 07:12 PM) [snapback]428535[/snapback]
Maussa was OVERRATED and you know it!


YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU SOB! Speaking that way about the Apostle is tantamount to treason in these parts. Be warned!
BigG
Of course because Maussa has the same fighting style as Joe Calzaghe and Maussa also once threw a flying headbutt at Vivian harris just some "veteran tactics" from El Apostle.
torvix2000
Every "glass chinned" heavyweight who managed to get a lot of wins and few KO has got to have some skills in them. WLAD is one of them.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(Thegreatequalizer @ Mar 17 2009, 06:53 PM) [snapback]428579[/snapback]
one thing to take into account is that wlad has the much better technique and wins in a more impressive fashion than hatton's brawling and sometimes ugly (but entertaining) style.


Definately agree Wlad has better technique, but Ricky is way tougher and more determined than the fragile Klit. So hypothetically speaking if they fought at the same weight class, I would be more inclined to pick Hatton on his toughness to break Wlad down. I would take Hatton's heart and skills over Wlad's skills and heart anyday, especially considering the WAY Wlad flopped in three of his fights. I easily would see Ricky breaking Wlad down. Wlad lost to Purrity(ouch!), Sanders(okay he got caught early, but still he got his ass kicked), and mentally broke down after Brewster swallowed his heart. Hatton lost to the P4P best in a fun competative fight, no shame there. IMO I would say overall Ricky is a better fighter than Wlad, though Wlad has better technique and fundementals. Here is an example, Forrest-Mayorga is kind of like I would see a fight between the two.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(Thegreatequalizer @ Mar 17 2009, 05:53 PM) [snapback]428579[/snapback]
one thing to take into account is that wlad has the much better technique and wins in a more impressive fashion than hatton's brawling and sometimes ugly (but entertaining) style.


that can be argued but my thing is that technique wise... ring generalship.. overall boxing ability and let me also say boxing pedigree wlad. whips hatton in every catagory.. you can argue like someone does who they have beaten and i understand that but overall skill level also means a lot... wlad fights in a division where everyman is supposed to pack some type of a punch even if his knockout ratio doesnt say the same.. those guys can punch...
King Eugene
QUOTE(3King3 @ Mar 17 2009, 08:33 PM) [snapback]428591[/snapback]
I totally disagree. It would be a lot closer than your predicting. For some reason people keep forgetting Floyd can brawl as well. Look at the fight he had with Chop Chop or whatever the hell his nickname was and the fight with N'Dou. He brawled a lot in those fights and was damn good at it. In the inside you wont get too many clean shots on Floyd and everybody knows that. He is one of the best at adjusting to a fighters style through out the fight. And Duran outbox Floyd? LMAO yea um...that aint happening. I'm a fan of Floyd but not a nutt hugger like I am with Roy(I'm not afraid to admit it) but I believe a lot of guys are picking Duran over Floyd more out of hate for the guy instead of recognizing his true skill. Yes its true he hasn't fought all the fights we as fans thinks he should have but regardless of what you want to say he's damn good and can fight any type of fight.

Duran is a beast and an all time great and NOBODY can dispute that. Tell you the truth I'd pick KT over Duran at 140.

I know it was late in his career but didnt Duran lose to Pazzienza?

Roy is pound for pound better than both of them.

Signed sealed delivered! Yall musta forgot!
Big Slim Sweet
Wlad does have the advantages over Hatton in terms of technique and ability, it's true. But I tend not to take that too into consideration with the whole mythical p4p match-ups. It's one of the reasons I criticize some for putting Marquez above Pacquiao. Gotta go by what they actually do with their ability.

Hatton, despite what everyone here is saying about him (all of it true, btw) still has that one big win, and more importantly, still has only lost to the p4p best. And while I'm sure it's true that his record was/is grossly padded with pub crawling drunks Frank Warren managed to round up on the streets of Manchester earlier in his career, I'm sure it's also true that Wlad's record is equally if not more padded with hapless journeyman rounded out of their homes and marched into Germany from around the globe who he outweighed by 40 pounds. So I think that's a wash. Both these guys came on to the scene stuffing their bellies with European pastries.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Big Slim @ Mar 18 2009, 10:14 AM) [snapback]428687[/snapback]
Gotta go by what they actually do with their ability.

Yep. @ the end of the day this is what's really important. The simple fact is, Hatton has beaten the better opposition...
D-MARV
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 18 2009, 12:54 PM) [snapback]428689[/snapback]
Yep. @ the end of the day this is what's really important. The simple fact is, Hatton has beaten the better opposition...

NO
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(The C.E.O. @ Mar 17 2009, 05:50 PM) [snapback]428586[/snapback]
Wlad is a very good Heavyweight...and a very good boxer....a better boxer than Hatton....period.

Let's put down the Kool-Aid and be real about this.

Very good Heavyweights and very good boxers don't get clowned by the likes of Purrity, Sanders, and Brewster. Wlad is a step above average...
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 18 2009, 03:23 PM) [snapback]428722[/snapback]
NO

YES
D-MARV
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 18 2009, 05:28 PM) [snapback]428723[/snapback]
Let's put down the Kool-Aid and be real about this.

Very good Heavyweights and very good boxers don't get clowned by the likes of Purrity, Sanders, and Brewster. Wlad is a step above average...

Purity was very early in his career. No one clowns Manny Pac for his 2 KO losses.

Sanders fight Wlad got caught. SEE Lennox Lewis



Wlad got his redemption against Brewster.


Bottomline... Greater fighters have lost to lesser opponents.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 18 2009, 03:52 PM) [snapback]428727[/snapback]
Purity was very early in his career. No one clowns Manny Pac for his 2 KO losses.

No one clowns Manny Pac because of the quality opposition he has beaten...


QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 18 2009, 03:52 PM) [snapback]428727[/snapback]
Sanders fight Wlad got caught. SEE Lennox Lewis

Lewis avenged both his losses by KO. Wlad and Lewis have *nothing* in common...


QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 18 2009, 03:52 PM) [snapback]428727[/snapback]
Wlad got his redemption against Brewster.

You mean after Brewster and been off for *15* months and was coming back from *eye surgery*. Is that the Brewster you're talking about?
D-MARV
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 18 2009, 06:00 PM) [snapback]428728[/snapback]
No one clown Manny Pac because of the quality opposition he has beaten...

My point is that people suffer early KOs. Wlad has beaten fighters that were better than Purity!


QUOTE
Lewis avenged both his losses by KO. Wlad and Lewis have *nothing* in common...
Yes the do! they both came back from KO losses to regain the title and claim the #1 spot.



QUOTE
You mean after Brewster and been off for *15* months and was coming back from *eye surgery*. Is that the Brewster you're talking about?

Thats exactly who I'm talking about! Klit did stop Brewster (who has never been stopped).
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 18 2009, 04:13 PM) [snapback]428729[/snapback]
My point is that people suffer early KOs. Wlad has beaten fighters that were better than Purity!

Purrity is shit. Manny Pac may have suffered KO losses but he has wins over Morales, Barrera, Marquez, and de la Hoya. Wlad Klitschko and Manny Pac do not belong in the same sentence...


QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 18 2009, 04:13 PM) [snapback]428729[/snapback]
Yes the do! they both came back from KO losses to regain the title and claim the #1 spot.

No.

Lennox Lewis = Undisputed HW Champion

Wlad Klitschko =/= Undisputed HW Champion

There are no comparisons to be made between W. Klit and Lennox Lewis.


QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 18 2009, 04:13 PM) [snapback]428729[/snapback]
Thats exactly who I'm talking about! Klit did stop Brewster (who has never been stopped).

First and foremost, Wlad failed to rematch both Purrity and Sanders. That in itself is an epic failure.

Secondly, the Brewster rematch needs to be put in it's proper context. Brewster was coming of off a *15* month layoff and *eye surgery*. Does that not count for anything?
D-MARV
You argument is sooo far off that its not even worth arguing anymore. You say Wlad is a pussy because he didn't avenge is losses. I guess Hopkins is a pussy... Manny Pac is a pussy... You use a boxing site called "Cyber-Boxing" as your defense and then you go on to call guys like JMM, Vic, and Chad Dawson paper champs. I think it's safe to say that you lost this argument. Im done with this thread...

Another Day, Another Thread.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 18 2009, 05:19 PM) [snapback]428742[/snapback]
then you go on to call guys like JMM, Vic, and Chad Dawson paper champs.

Yeah, Dawson is a paper champion.

Now, someone find the message where I accused JMM or Darchinyan of being paper champions....
King Eugene
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 18 2009, 07:27 PM) [snapback]428745[/snapback]
Yeah, Dawson is a paper champion.

Now, someone find the message where I accused JMM or Darchinyan of being paper champions....

Dawson is not a paper champ. He won all of his titles in the Ring by defeating the champ. I dont see how you could see him as a paper champ. Why cause he hasn't rematched Johnson?
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(3King3 @ Mar 18 2009, 07:28 PM) [snapback]428756[/snapback]
Dawson is not a paper champ. He won all of his titles in the Ring by defeating the champ. I dont see how you could see him as a paper champ. Why cause he hasn't rematched Johnson?

Dawson is a paper champ because he, like Tarver, Jones, Hopkins, and Calzaghe, have never beaten the linear champ @ 175lbs...
D-MARV
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 18 2009, 09:45 PM) [snapback]428757[/snapback]
Dawson is a paper champ because he, like Tarver, Jones, Hopkins, and Calzaghe, have never beaten the linear champ @ 175lbs...

LOL
D-MARV
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 18 2009, 10:12 PM) [snapback]428761[/snapback]
Just give up with this guy. He thinks if you are not the undisputed linear champion, it makes you a paper titlist. All it does is show you are not the undisputed champion, but it doesn't mean you are a linear champion. He has no middle ground. Most normal people can separate it as a paper champion, a titlist, unified champion and undisputed champion. This guy has two categories; paper champion and linear champion, that's it.
Kind of like separating girls as sluts or no sluts. You are a virgin, you aren't a whore, you aren't a virgin you are. He has made it very simple, but still stupid and not very effective.

you're right... I can't believe we wasted all these pages arguing with him.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 18 2009, 08:12 PM) [snapback]428761[/snapback]
Just give up with this guy. He thinks if you are not the undisputed linear champion, it makes you a paper titlist.

Well, if you're not the Undisputed Champion they you are in fact a paper titlist.

I don't see a problem here....
King Eugene
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 18 2009, 09:45 PM) [snapback]428757[/snapback]
Dawson is a paper champ because he, like Tarver, Jones, Hopkins, and Calzaghe, have never beaten the linear champ @ 175lbs...

LMAO...who was the linear champ through all of there reigns? I could have swore all of them where...well except for Calzaghe. And please dont bring up that Dariusz cat.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(3King3 @ Mar 18 2009, 08:34 PM) [snapback]428766[/snapback]
LMAO...who was the linear champ through all of there reigns? I could have swore all of them where...well except for Calzaghe. And please dont bring up that Dariusz cat.


Michalczewski
Gonzales
Erdei
King Eugene
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 18 2009, 10:41 PM) [snapback]428769[/snapback]
Michalczewski
Gonzales
Erdei

LMAO...you mean the same Gonzales Roy destroyed, the same Michalczweski that lost to Gonzales and went life and death for 12 rounds against Richard Hall?
Dude your off your rocker now. But if thinking this makes you feel any better than you go ahead.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(3King3 @ Mar 18 2009, 08:44 PM) [snapback]428770[/snapback]
LMAO...you mean the same Gonzales Roy destroyed, the same Michalczweski that lost to Gonzales and went life and death for 12 rounds against Richard Hall?
Dude your off your rocker now. But if thinking this makes you feel any better than you go ahead.

Facts are facts. The winner of Michalczweski and Virgil Hill determined the rightful LHW champion after Michael Spinks moved up to HW. Most of the belts Roy paraded around with in the '90s were stripped from Michalczweski or someone else. Roy Jones' "reign" at LHW was one of the biggest frauds of the 20th century. Calzaghe's claim to the LHW title is based on a lineage that goes back to Roy Jones. Therefore, Calzaghe's claim as the LHW champion is as bogus as Jones' claim was....
Spyder
So Nay Sayer's "Champion" isn't necessarily the best guy in the division...yeah, that makes sense. laugh.gif
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 18 2009, 10:54 PM) [snapback]428771[/snapback]
Facts are facts. The winner of Michalczweski and Virgil Hill determined the rightful LHW champion after Michael Spinks moved up to HW. Most of the belts Roy paraded around with in the '90s were stripped from Michalczweski or someone else. Roy Jones' "reign" at LHW was one of the biggest frauds of the 20th century. Calzaghe's claim to the LHW title is based on a lineage that goes back to Roy Jones. Therefore, Calzaghe's claim as the LHW champion is as bogus as Jones' claim was....


But Ring Magazine considered Calzaghe as the 175 pound champ?
King Eugene
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Mar 18 2009, 10:54 PM) [snapback]428771[/snapback]
Facts are facts. The winner of Michalczweski and Virgil Hill determined the rightful LHW champion after Michael Spinks moved up to HW. Most of the belts Roy paraded around with in the '90s were stripped from Michalczweski or someone else. Roy Jones' "reign" at LHW was one of the biggest frauds of the 20th century. Calzaghe's claim to the LHW title is based on a lineage that goes back to Roy Jones. Therefore, Calzaghe's claim as the LHW champion is as bogus as Jones' claim was....

ROFL clapping.gif clapping.gif clapping.gif clapping.gif Bravo!
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