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JLUVBABY
no berto fight for mosely .. i am tripping why would mosely not take this fight?... even if he is not mayweathers opponent for july why wouldnt he not fight berto to possibly add some more hardware to what he's got?.. it would be more bargaining leverage for the possible looming mayweather fight... makes no scence to me.. what do you guys think?
pcraw
Mosley is all about the huge fights and he didn't want to take any fight that would jeopardize him getting the Pacquiao/Hatton winner!

King Eugene
QUOTE(pcraw @ Mar 20 2009, 08:13 PM) [snapback]429043[/snapback]
Mosley is all about the huge fights and he didn't want to take any fight that would jeopardize him getting the Pacquiao/Hatton winner!

Thats understandable...Cash in while you can. I bet its going to be a big ordeal once that fight is over as to weather Mayweather or Mosley gets the winner. I'm thinking since Mosley is with Golden Boy already he has the better chance in landing that fight.
thehype
Who is Andre Berto?
Fitz
Mosley is at the tail end of his career. Pacquiao/Hatton isn't far away, that will open doors and may possibly open doors for Mayweather to enter the equation and then there is Cotto. Mosley has a lot of good possibilities that will all fair better for him money wise and legacy wise.
JLUVBABY
mosely berto is a good fight... if he is avoiding berto come on... that should be a winnable fight and shall he win he picks up another belt.. berto is a big fight he is a belt holder... what other options does he have?... unless mayweather fights him in june, IF he is indeed coming back, what other big fight options, since thats what he's looking for, does he have till later in the year?.. the big names are all locked up fighting each other... cotto clottey are fighting.. pac and hatton or locked up... who else is there?.. unless he is content with not having a fight... berto deserves a shot like him or not based on the fact that he IS a belt holder... Why not give him a shot?.. Mosely has no other big names on his radar till the end of the year or at least the 3rd quarter of the year except maybe paul williams and i doubt mosely makes that fight happen, ever.
King Eugene
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Mar 20 2009, 10:21 PM) [snapback]429055[/snapback]
mosely berto is a good fight... if he is avoiding berto come on... that should be a winnable fight and shall he win he picks up another belt.. berto is a big fight he is a belt holder... what other options does he have?... unless mayweather fights him in june, IF he is indeed coming back, what other big fight options, since thats what he's looking for, does he have till later in the year?.. the big names are all locked up fighting each other... cotto clottey are fighting.. pac and hatton or locked up... who else is there?.. unless he is content with not having a fight... berto deserves a shot like him or not based on the fact that he IS a belt holder... Why not give him a shot?.. Mosely has no other big names on his radar till the end of the year or at least the 3rd quarter of the year except maybe paul williams and i doubt mosely makes that fight happen, ever.

I doubt any Welters challenge Paul Williams. Me personally I'd like to see one unified linear champ. I think fighting Berto would be a step towards that. But at the end of the day these cats are looking to get paid and Berto really doesn't draw any money.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(3King3 @ Mar 20 2009, 10:13 PM) [snapback]429058[/snapback]
I doubt any Welters challenge Paul Williams. Me personally I'd like to see one unified linear champ. I think fighting Berto would be a step towards that. But at the end of the day these cats are looking to get paid and Berto really doesn't draw any money.


these guys are not gonna have super fights every time out.. besides williams who he is not gonna fight who else is there in the fore seeable future for him to lock horns with?.. cuzz i seriously doubt mayweather fights mosely out the gate... mosely needs to stay sharp and thats a fight that can be made..
dbdbdb
QUOTE(3King3 @ Mar 20 2009, 11:13 PM) [snapback]429058[/snapback]
I doubt any Welters challenge Paul Williams. Me personally I'd like to see one unified linear champ. I think fighting Berto would be a step towards that. But at the end of the day these cats are looking to get paid and Berto really doesn't draw any money.


P. Williams called each and every WW in the top tier out. And because no one wanted to be in the same ring as him, he's having to move up just to get a fight. This is BS!!!!

If you want to talk about the REAL most feared ....... Look no further than P.Williams.

*******
Back to Mosley.

Berto and Mosley is a good matchup because both are champs. Mosley should try to collect that belt Berto has, since there is no guarentee that Hatton or Pac-Man will move back up to WW. Unless GBP has something to really wet their whistle.

And judging from reports Pac-Man is difficult at the negotiating table. So you add both Mosley and Pac-Man {Both want the highest percentage at the same time} and you have a nightmare at negotiation time.

Even Hatton {If he wins} will strongly believe he's the P4P best boxer on the planet laugh.gif and will want the higest percentage in any negotiation with GBP. So, you have another nightmare trying to make that fight.

And if Floyd comes back and targets Pac-Man {After a possible Manny win} and IF Manny really wants that fight -- Mosley is going to end up holding an empty dance card.

WTF!!!!!

Bird in the hand, worth two in the bush, scenario for Mosley ...... Take the Berto Matchup.
King Eugene
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Mar 20 2009, 11:31 PM) [snapback]429060[/snapback]
these guys are not gonna have super fights every time out.. besides williams who he is not gonna fight who else is there in the fore seeable future for him to lock horns with?.. cuzz i seriously doubt mayweather fights mosely out the gate... mosely needs to stay sharp and thats a fight that can be made..

It would be a very good fight to take but to risky for a stay busy fight though. He loses and blows a huge pay day between the Hatton vs. Pac Man winner. I'm not a hater but I think if he did lose to Berto, Floyd would probably be more willing to fight him. I'm a Floyd fan but just keeping it real.
Lil-lightsout
Paul Williams at Jr. Middleweight looks real strong, and is an offensive machine. Lets see how he fares against Winky next, and who really knows if he REALLY wants to drop back down for some bigger fights. I just do not know if he would want to get back down to welterweight again. But if PW would come back down to welterweight, I know he will not be as strong. He did not look good in his first fight with Quintana, and he faded badly against AM late in the fight. I would love for him to drop back down to ww to see him get whooped on by Mosley or Mayweather, they would pick him apart. He can get away with his attack now against some type of fighters, but I would honestly pick Cotto, Mosley, and Mayweather to beat him at welterweight. I know many would disagree.

Anyway, Mosley must know something if he did turn down Berto. I am sure he has some type of plan, I just hope it does not mean he will wait around several more months till he has another fight. I think a Berto fight would be awesome, I think Berto would be tough early with his speed and aggression, but Shane would figure him out and stop him at some point. Berto does not seem to have a sturdy chin.

I have no clue how this welterweight division is going to play out, but this would be my dream.




Hatton beats Pacman.
Cotto beats Clottey
Mayweather beats Marquez
Mosley beats Berto

Then Rematches


Mosley beats Cotto
Mayweather beats Hatton(after moving up)


Then the Fight

Mosley KO's Mayweather!!!

Then Mosely retires on top, and Floyd loses everything as he bets his whole fortune on himself.

King Eugene
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Mar 21 2009, 01:10 AM) [snapback]429071[/snapback]
I have no clue how this welterweight division is going to play out, but this would be my dream.
Hatton beats Pacman.
Cotto beats Clottey
Mayweather beats Marquez
Mosley beats Berto

Then Rematches
Mosley beats Cotto
Mayweather beats Hatton(after moving up)
Then the Fight

Mosley KO's Mayweather!!!

Then Mosely retires on top, and Floyd loses everything as he bets his whole fortune on himself.

Your not MLK Jr.

...and this dream definitely isn't coming true. laugh.gif
hardhead
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Mar 21 2009, 05:10 AM) [snapback]429071[/snapback]
Paul Williams at Jr. Middleweight looks real strong, and is an offensive machine. Lets see how he fares against Winky next, and who really knows if he REALLY wants to drop back down for some bigger fights. I just do not know if he would want to get back down to welterweight again. But if PW would come back down to welterweight, I know he will not be as strong. He did not look good in his first fight with Quintana, and he faded badly against AM late in the fight. I would love for him to drop back down to ww to see him get whooped on by Mosley or Mayweather, they would pick him apart. He can get away with his attack now against some type of fighters, but I would honestly pick Cotto, Mosley, and Mayweather to beat him at welterweight. I know many would disagree.

Anyway, Mosley must know something if he did turn down Berto. I am sure he has some type of plan, I just hope it does not mean he will wait around several more months till he has another fight. I think a Berto fight would be awesome, I think Berto would be tough early with his speed and aggression, but Shane would figure him out and stop him at some point. Berto does not seem to have a sturdy chin.

I have no clue how this welterweight division is going to play out, but this would be my dream.
Hatton beats Pacman.
Cotto beats Clottey
Mayweather beats Marquez
Mosley beats Berto

Then Rematches
Mosley beats Cotto
Mayweather beats Hatton(after moving up)
Then the Fight

Mosley KO's Mayweather!!!

Then Mosely retires on top, and Floyd loses everything as he bets his whole fortune on himself.


I read an article very recently(I think it was boxingscene) where Williams stated that he would definitely move back down to Welterweight for the right fight, the question for me is the longer he stays at JM can he really do it and will it take something out of him to get down to 147?
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Mar 20 2009, 10:41 PM) [snapback]429063[/snapback]
P. Williams called each and every WW in the top tier out. And because no one wanted to be in the same ring as him, he's having to move up just to get a fight. This is BS!!!!

If you want to talk about the REAL most feared ....... Look no further than P.Williams.

*******
Back to Mosley.

Berto and Mosley is a good matchup because both are champs. Mosley should try to collect that belt Berto has, since there is no guarentee that Hatton or Pac-Man will move back up to WW. Unless GBP has something to really wet their whistle.

And judging from reports Pac-Man is difficult at the negotiating table. So you add both Mosley and Pac-Man {Both want the highest percentage at the same time} and you have a nightmare at negotiation time.

Even Hatton {If he wins} will strongly believe he's the P4P best boxer on the planet laugh.gif and will want the higest percentage in any negotiation with GBP. So, you have another nightmare trying to make that fight.

And if Floyd comes back and targets Pac-Man {After a possible Manny win} and IF Manny really wants that fight -- Mosley is going to end up holding an empty dance card.

WTF!!!!!

Bird in the hand, worth two in the bush, scenario for Mosley ...... Take the Berto Matchup.


i couldnt have said that better... thank you...lol
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(3King3 @ Mar 20 2009, 10:43 PM) [snapback]429064[/snapback]
It would be a very good fight to take but to risky for a stay busy fight though. He loses and blows a huge pay day between the Hatton vs. Pac Man winner. I'm not a hater but I think if he did lose to Berto, Floyd would probably be more willing to fight him. I'm a Floyd fan but just keeping it real.


floyd fought zab after the baldomir loss.. and that fight did pretty good and was entertaining... styles make fights.. thats part of the problem with the sport today, just because you lose dont take you out of contention, well it matters how you lose i suppose but you get the point... the big misconception is that a loss is the end of a career... all a loss really means is you are not being a punk being protected unless you are really that good, ala mayweather, and no matter how much one might want to hate mayweather is that good... and to elaborate on mayweather for a second had he or if he comes back and stays in the game we will see him eventually lose as well, unless like i said he is truley that great... mosely, unless he just goes on a losing streak will always have name recognition and will always be able to get the big fights... he could fight berto who has thrown down a gauntlet for him... mosely is not old for a fighter... this is not the 80's or 90's when a fighter in the lower weight divisions hit 30-32 they where considered old and over the hill... mosely has a lot of fight left in him.. unless his people know that styles make fights and margarito had a style suited for him and berto doesnt.... i dont know but thats what i am gathering from them turning down this fight...
King Eugene
QUOTE(JLUVBABY @ Mar 21 2009, 03:29 AM) [snapback]429096[/snapback]
floyd fought zab after the baldomir loss.. and that fight did pretty good and was entertaining... styles make fights.. thats part of the problem with the sport today, just because you lose dont take you out of contention, well it matters how you lose i suppose but you get the point... the big misconception is that a loss is the end of a career... all a loss really means is you are not being a punk being protected unless you are really that good, ala mayweather, and no matter how much one might want to hate mayweather is that good... and to elaborate on mayweather for a second had he or if he comes back and stays in the game we will see him eventually lose as well, unless like i said he is truley that great... mosely, unless he just goes on a losing streak will always have name recognition and will always be able to get the big fights... he could fight berto who has thrown down a gauntlet for him... mosely is not old for a fighter... this is not the 80's or 90's when a fighter in the lower weight divisions hit 30-32 they where considered old and over the hill... mosely has a lot of fight left in him.. unless his people know that styles make fights and margarito had a style suited for him and berto doesnt.... i dont know but thats what i am gathering from them turning down this fight...

I still think Berto vs. Mosley would be an entertaining fight...especially for the summer. And as I've stated before I think it would give us a similar preview of what Mosley vs. Mayweather would look like cause of Berto's style is a little similar to Floyd's. What I dont want is for Mosley landing the Pac vs. Hatton winner but have to move down to 140 just to make it. That could possibly drain Shane and he not come in 100% and end up like DLH. Which I doubt will happen but you never know.
dbdbdb
One more comment on this topic.

Is it reality for a fighter of Mosley's caliber to openly state:

"He only wants mega-fights," "and has no interest in title unifications - he only wants the big money"

I mean after a long career, I can understand the desire to get paid as you wind down your career. BUT, there are only a few dance partners who combined with Mosley has any potential to generate a BIG MONEY event. Plus, considering the state of the economy, where many people {even the rich} are scaling back on their spending.

Is this a realistic stance to take at this point in time ????

And a potential problem with this line of thinking at this time ..... I seriously believe that two of the current Cash-Cows of boxing {Pac-Man & Hatton} BOTH would lean HARD towards a match with the retired P4P King ... Floyd Mayweather over a match with Mosley. I mean honestly, Mosley is in the worst position right now -- where he's going to be competing head-to-head as a dance partner with Floyd.

I think Cotto, Pac-Man and Hatton would all favor a matchup with Floyd over Mosley because of the potential financial edge Floyd has -- plus the fans want to see it.

Mosley may find himself stagnant for some time to come -- And I don't think its a good move to pass Berto up. Floyd's in a position to keep Mosley sidelined for the next year by the moves he makes. Leaving Mosley hoping and waiting to get a BIG Money Fight for a long, long time.
JLUVBABY
To answer King, personally i dont think mosely can get down to 140... i could be wrong but i dont see it... and to dbd... you are absolutely right... IF Floyd comes back I seriously doubt he will make mosely his dance partner in july.... mosely will find himself in a position where no other big names is avalable and his margarito beating will lose a lot of its luster cuzz he will not have fought in so long.. you also made a good point that i think i touched on in an earlier post and that is mosely really isnt in the position to make that type of stand... the average joe blow dont know suger shane mosely... he is not barber shop talk... he needs the dance partner to to make mega fights and there arent a lot of them right now for him... 3 of them are locked down in fights and the other is still as we speak retired... berto is his best option right now, unless like i keep saying his people know something we dont... styles make fights and the fight before he fought marg. he looked like shit vs. mayorga... those judges had that fight very close at the time of the knockout... lets not lose focus on that... as good as shane is he wasnt supposed to go life an death with mayorga...
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
No way should Mosley take a Berto fight right now. Berto isn't a big name fighter and the risk would highly outweight the reward. Even though I thought Collazo beat Berto, Berto still has nice hand speed and you never know what can happen in boxing. After beating THEEE welterweight champ, he should be looking at a mega fight. Either with Mayweather or the winner of Hatton-Pacquiao. Berto should look at fighting Louie Collazo again. That was an excellent fight, and there's unfinished business there for Berto.
dbdbdb
QUOTE(KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ Mar 22 2009, 01:00 AM) [snapback]429227[/snapback]
No way should Mosley take a Berto fight right now. Berto isn't a big name fighter and the risk would highly outweight the reward.


That line sounds soo familiar these days & I glad you mentioned it as a realistic stradegy.

"No way should XYZ take a XYZ fight right now. XYZ isn't a big name fighter and the risk would highly outweight the reward. "
JD
I think Mosley should fight Berto. It beats not fighting anyone, and it's not like he can afford to be on the shelf for 9 or 10 months at his age.

While Naz was a big part of looking great against Margarito, I think Mosley's activity was a bigger part. He had fought 4 months earlier and did not sit and get rusty. If Mosley sits out for 9 or 10 months it will only hurt him...not help him. Better to stay active and win a strap than do nada.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE(JD @ Mar 22 2009, 08:31 AM) [snapback]429260[/snapback]
I think Mosley should fight Berto. It beats not fighting anyone, and it's not like he can afford to be on the shelf for 9 or 10 months at his age.

While Naz was a big part of looking great against Margarito, I think Mosley's activity was a bigger part. He had fought 4 months earlier and did not sit and get rusty. If Mosley sits out for 9 or 10 months it will only hurt him...not help him. Better to stay active and win a strap than do nada.


thats my thinking jd...
D-MARV
We may be looking at Mosley-Mayweather in July... I think that's why Mosley turned down Berto.
GOON
I think Berto would whip up on mosely dome piece, and that's why he did not want the fight...it's just not a good fight for mosely at this point in his career...the risk/reward is not in his favor...


oh yeah, damarvelousone, correct me if i'm wrong, but did'nt joe louis get knocked out like a little bitch by marciano? oh, wait, i know, you're going to say that he was not in his "prime", right? HAHAHAHAHA...
GOON
huh? what the deuce are you talking about, kind sir?
GOON
hahha i just think it is funny that damarvelousone has a quote talking about marciano not being shit compared to joe loui, when in REALITY, marciano finished his career undefeated and knocked joe louis STRAIGHT THE FUCK OUT...but, as always, there will be an excuse as to why louis is better...
D-MARV
QUOTE(GOON @ Mar 22 2009, 07:00 PM) [snapback]429306[/snapback]
hahha i just think it is funny that damarvelousone has a quote talking about marciano not being shit compared to joe loui, when in REALITY, marciano finished his career undefeated and knocked joe louis STRAIGHT THE FUCK OUT...but, as always, there will be an excuse as to why louis is better...

Nice try Stillimaloserandihavenothingbettertodowithmylife.
GOON
uhh? wtf are you talking about? dont you have anything to say about joe louis getting his clock cleaned by marciano?

THOUGHT NOT...
JD
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 22 2009, 05:11 PM) [snapback]429297[/snapback]
We may be looking at Mosley-Mayweather in July... I think that's why Mosley turned down Berto.


I wouldn't bet on it, but would be ecstatic if it were that case.

If Mosley isn't get the Mayweather fight, he should just fight Berto.
D-MARV
QUOTE(JD @ Mar 22 2009, 08:03 PM) [snapback]429316[/snapback]
I wouldn't bet on it, but would be ecstatic if it were that case.

If Mosley isn't get the Mayweather fight, he should just fight Berto.

I know it doesnt mean much... But CEO of Golden boy, Richard Schaefer announced that he is in early discussions with the Mayweather camp.
Again I know it doesn't hold much credence, but I'm assuming that may be the reason Shane turned down the Berto fight. Also, Berto is fighting Urango this summer.
JD
Oh that is precisely why I think he turned it down.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 22 2009, 08:50 PM) [snapback]429328[/snapback]
I know it doesnt mean much... But CEO of Golden boy, Richard Schaefer announced that he is in early discussions with the Mayweather camp.
Again I know it doesn't hold much credence, but I'm assuming that may be the reason Shane turned down the Berto fight. Also, Berto is fighting Urango this summer.


If Mosley fights Mayweather, I am so going, and I do not care if it's on the west coast. I am terrified of flying, but I will do it for this fight. I will also lay a good bit of cash on Mosley too. If some how Floyd gets lucky and wins, I will be that idiot that runs in the ring to take a shot at Floyd. Hopefully his back will be to me so just maybe I can land that perfect shot to put PBF to sleep. I will make sure to wear a fighthype shirt too for publicity reasons.
D-MARV
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Mar 22 2009, 09:58 PM) [snapback]429345[/snapback]
If Mosley fights Mayweather, I am so going, and I do not care if it's on the west coast. I am terrified of flying, but I will do it for this fight. I will also lay a good bit of cash on Mosley too. If some how Floyd gets lucky and wins, I will be that idiot that runs in the ring to take a shot at Floyd. Hopefully his back will be to me so just maybe I can land that perfect shot to put PBF to sleep. I will make sure to wear a fighthype shirt too for publicity reasons.

Well you know it will be in Vegas!
Brad
it is funny how many times Floyds name gets mentioned in certain match ups, I must have missed his comeback fight because last time I checked he was retired.

Oh thats right Floyd is doing this and Floyd is doing that so he must be coming back..........yeah I think it is on Lennox Lewis undercard, Lennox is also doing this and that and talking about returning. And Mike Tyson vs Evander Holyfield is the co-main.......

Time to move on folks... If the comeback happens then great but until then put your hands away and your dicks back in your pants
Sugar Q
PBF doesn't need to clean up the welter-wt division just a fight with Mosley or Cotto (either would do but moreso Mosley), Pac (if he wins) and Marquez if he wants it. All this BS about cleaning up the division is BS. I don't hear anyone saying Pac should clean out 140 or 147 or even 135 for that matter. PBF beat Corrales, Castillo, Hatton and Baldomire and DeLaHoya (all top guys at the time in their divisions) come back and beat Mosley (current top guy at 147) and Pac or whoever is the perceive P4P guy then call it a day once and for all. No need to pick on Berto, what would that prove? Let all the fake ass boxing experts that the closest they've ever been to a ring was their television or a magazine continue to do what they do. TALK SH-- !
D-MARV
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Mar 23 2009, 01:16 PM) [snapback]429388[/snapback]
PBF doesn't need to clean up the welter-wt division just a fight with Mosley or Cotto (either would do but moreso Mosley), Pac (if he wins) and Marquez if he wants it. All this BS about cleaning up the division is BS. I don't hear anyone saying Pac should clean out 140 or 147 or even 135 for that matter. PBF beat Corrales, Castillo, Hatton and Baldomire and DeLaHoya (all top guys at the time in their divisions) come back and beat Mosley (current top guy at 147) and Pac or whoever is the perceive P4P guy then call it a day once and for all. No need to pick on Berto, what would that prove? Let all the fake ass boxing experts that the closest they've ever been to a ring was their television or a magazine continue to do what they do. TALK SH-- !

I don't think it's the boxing experts that are clowning Floyd. It's the fans that do that.
dbdbdb
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 23 2009, 01:32 PM) [snapback]429389[/snapback]
I don't think it's the boxing experts that are clowning Floyd. It's the fans that do that.


Actually to be more specific .... Its the Floyd haters that do that.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Mar 23 2009, 01:39 PM) [snapback]429391[/snapback]
Actually to be more specific .... Its the Floyd haters that do that.

Some of the most knowledgeable and reasonable fans of the sport, IMO. cool.gif
kidbazooka1
Mosley doesn't need Berto but if they did fight he whips him easy IMO.

Berto needs to rematch Colloza.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(damarvelous1 @ Mar 23 2009, 01:32 PM) [snapback]429389[/snapback]
I don't think it's the boxing experts that are clowning Floyd. It's the fans that do that.


I liked fake experts better than fake fans :-)
Sugar Q
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 23 2009, 05:40 PM) [snapback]429406[/snapback]
Exactly, that's what people have been asking for years. Just fight a legitimate welter. I'm glad you can see it from my perspective and others. Thanks.
Yep, Hatton was the top guy at 147 after fighting one time in a close fight with Collazo and then moving down to 140, and then moving up to 147 for his second fight there. Baldomir was the man, but never considered the best, and sure I suppose DLH could be considered the top guy at 154 after beating Mayorga.
Does it matter how close they have been in a ring or not? They are critics and have every right to be critics. Do you think everyone that says a movie sucks are actors? Or people that say music is shit are all musicians? The only people who use this stupid argument on people not being able to comment on something they "haven't done" are usually fans of the person getting criticised.


1) Yes Hatton was the top guy at 140 and has been since he beat Zu
2) Like it or lump it Baldomire was the top dawg when PBF beat him
3) Yes DeLaHoya coming off the Mayorga win was the man to beat at 154
3) I've heard George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis and my HOF trainer family member say over and over again "EVERYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE RING IS JUST AN OBSERVATION"
Anyone can comment on anything at any given time it's your right but it doesn't mean you know what your talking about and anyone who says PBF needs to beat anyone else to solidify his status don't know what the f--- their talking about. When you've been in the ring either training or fighting you get a true perspective on what it's all about. That's probably why CRITICS never become trainers or fighters but the other way around :-)
Brad
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Mar 24 2009, 09:35 AM) [snapback]429435[/snapback]
Anyone can comment on anything at any given time it's your right but it doesn't mean you know what your talking about and anyone who says PBF needs to beat anyone else to solidify his status don't know what the f--- their talking about. When you've been in the ring either training or fighting you get a true perspective on what it's all about. That's probably why CRITICS never become trainers or fighters but the other way around :-)


I been in the ring training for years, but I don't know what this has to do with me wanting to see Floyd fight all the big names and keep on showing how much better than them he is. You have a fighter in Emanuel Augustus who will fight someone on two days notice, stoned off his face and for a pay cheque of $2,500, and then you get Floyd Mayweather who will have so many conditions that need to be in his favour for the fight to come off. Does that mean that one of these guys doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about?

I may have missed what you really meant......
Brad
What makes a legit welter to you guys?

Funny to hear Mosley and Cotto mentioned as legit welters, I always thought they were no different to Zab and Hatton in the sense that they moved up in weight to welter, Mosley came from an even lighter weight.

The perfect tests for these little guys who climb weight are Margarito, Clottey and to a lesser extent, Andre Berto, natural welterweights, not weight climbers. We saw what happened with Cotto and Mosley when they fought the real welters, Cotto failed as a welterweight and Mosley passed once again. Judah was chased out of 147 by Clottey.

Calling for Floyd to fight Cotto for a real welterweight test and dismissing his welterweight fight against Hatton isn't right, what will be next, Floyd hasn't fought a real welterweight until he fights Pacman LMAO
Sugar Q
QUOTE(Brad @ Mar 23 2009, 09:00 PM) [snapback]429436[/snapback]
I been in the ring training for years, but I don't know what this has to do with me wanting to see Floyd fight all the big names and keep on showing how much better than them he is. You have a fighter in Emanuel Augustus who will fight someone on two days notice, stoned off his face and for a pay cheque of $2,500, and then you get Floyd Mayweather who will have so many conditions that need to be in his favour for the fight to come off. Does that mean that one of these guys doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about?

I may have missed what you really meant......



No it means one of these guys is being grossly mismanaged. There's FAR too many broke ass former champions. It's really sad to see. So to see PBF be very successful and well managed is a beautiful thing. I too would love to see him fight Mosley or Cotto and I think if he comes back and doesn't fight one of those guys THEN I will be one of the first to criticize him and I've been in or around the ring all my life. Just imagine what Emanuel's career would be like if he made good decisions and was properly managed like Floyd. It's a business and fighters have to maximize their money making opportunities. But doesn't your ring experience make you know the rigors of the fight game first hand? Watching a fighter on tv is far different than being in the ring. Being in the ring makes you an authority of sorts.
dbdbdb
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Mar 23 2009, 09:14 PM) [snapback]429438[/snapback]
No it means one of these guys is being grossly mismanaged. There's FAR too many broke ass former champions. It's really sad to see. So to see PBF be very successful and well managed is a beautiful thing. I too would love to see him fight Mosley or Cotto and I think if he comes back and doesn't fight one of those guys THEN I will be one of the first to criticize him and I've been in or around the ring all my life. Just imagine what Emanuel's career would be like if he made good decisions and was properly managed like Floyd. It's a business and fighters have to maximize their money making opportunities. But doesn't your ring experience make you know the rigors of the fight game first hand? Watching a fighter on tv is far different than being in the ring. Being in the ring makes you an authority of sorts.


Taking some of your points Sugar Q,

I totally agree with you -- It is that business mentality that has gotten Floyd where he is financially. As an example: {Floyd vs Corley} Floyd made 3million while Corley made 150,000. That has been the pattern for some time. Floyd is about that Business along with boxing. So, all that being said, wouldn't it be safe to assume that, that same practice and business smarts will be a part of any decision to return out of retirement. I say yes!!

Financially speaking:

Floyd vs Hatton in Manchester would be a serious money-maker
Floyd vs Paquiao in Las Vegas would also be a serious Money-maker.
!
Floyd vs Mosley {Would be a fans fight} but would NOT have the same money generating potential as Hatton & Paquiao.
Floyd vs Cotto {Would be a fans fight} but would NOT have the same money generating potential as Hatton & Paquiao.

So, looking at these four potential fights, as a business man, What Fights Would You Take????

It is these kind of moves and decisions that have made Floyd financially sound ... whereas other fighters are still trying to get a decent payday. Why do you think Marquez is calling out Floyd .. For the glory .. or to finally, after a very long career make some decent money.

Sometimes Money & Glory doesn't go hand-in-hand ... and WHEN that's the case .... GO FOR THE MONEY.

As previously stated, its mainly the Floyd detractors who don't and won't give his career the credit its due. But boxing analysis, Former Greats, Sports writers and those who are the voice of boxing, have absolutely NO PROBLEM giving Floyd the props he deserves.

!
Sugar Q
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 23 2009, 09:42 PM) [snapback]429440[/snapback]
They fought at 147. Hatton had 1 fight at 147 before he lost to Mayweather and it was a controversial fight. Sorry, that doesn't make him the top guy of his division, as it wasn't 140. Sorry, but you were very wrong.

2. Yes I know he was the top dog, being the top dog doesn't mean you are the best though. That's all I'm saying, it just sounds pathetic listing Baldomir as a name to give praise for. I don't knock Floyd for taking the fight, anyone with a brain would have taken it. Just don't go listing a win over Baldomir as something special.

3. You are doing the exact same fucking thing I am right now, except we are looking at it differently. Fighters aren't more knowledgeable than fans. Sure some are, but a lot aren't also. I hear fucking stupid shit come out of fighters mouths all the time. I bet you can click on any major boxing outlet and find something stupid that comes out of a fighters mouth.


1) My dude the point was that Hatton was the top 140 pounder when he fought Mayweather and with Mayweather being a natural 130 pounder there was no size advantage so that was a legitimate fight forget the weight but you can't forget either man's accomplishments.

2) Not only was Baldomire the linear champion and legitimate man to beat he was a LEGITIMATE WELTER-WT. Very reminiscent of a John Ruiz. Was Ruiz a true champion?

3) There's stupidity everywhere but how many fans are trainers or real players in the boxing game. At the same time how many of those fighters that say stupid things end up training other fighters to become champions. Every noteworthy principle player in the boxing game has some kinda ringtime under their belt. There's a reason for that. Anybody can talk about something but to actually have experience is the reason why any meaningful, high paying position in life requires experience.
Brad
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 24 2009, 10:49 AM) [snapback]429441[/snapback]
I'm talking about solid guys who handle 147 well. They carry power, strength of a welter. They are not too small or physical. Hatton and Zab don't have the size or strength of a real 147 fighter. Cotto and Mosley are. Yes Mosley and Cotto moved up in weight, but are not giving away much there, they belong there. They have the strength and size of a welter (yes I know people will bring Margarito up to shut the Cotto argument down, but Margarito was much stronger. Cotto to me is still a 147 fighter).
You are right about Margarito, Berto, Clottey being real welters, but we are talking about Mayweather. None of those fights are realistic, not enough money, so I am just mentioning legit 147 fighters that can bring some money also.
Don't know how Cotto failed as a 147 fighter though. He lost to a guy that was bigger and stronger than him. Margarito is bigger and stronger than the average 147 fighter anyways. Just because someone moves up in weight and has a loss doesn't mean they are a failure at that weight.

Saying that Cotto is a legit welter but Zab isn't is whats throwing me.

Mosley is for sure a legit welter campaigner, the man won titles at jnr middle and unlike Cotto he didn't look like a kid next to a man when matched with Margarito. Margarito may come across as big but its only because of all the weight climbers, he certainly didn't look all that big next to Clottey or Williams (but then again who would look big next to Williams lol). The average 147 pound fighter has started his career at a lighter weight. Floyd fights them then we'll hear criticism that its just another guy who isn't a real welter, ala Judah.

I don't see how Cotto has become the A player at 147, he is too small and we'll see him fail again against Clottey, another real welter. What makes him more legit than Judah? I'd pick Spinks over Quintana, Oktay Urkal and Zab Judah wasn't natural welters, Alfonzo Gomez and Michael Jennings really deserve no mention and Margarito chewed Cotto up and spat him back out. I scored the Mosley-Cotto bout for Mosley. What has he done against the welterweights in their division that just completely overshadows the talents of Judah? Bearing in mind that according to the haters they weren't acceptable foes for Mayweather as evidence of dominance at 147.

I don't mind seeing Cotto do his thing at 147, he has the talent to hang with a lot of guys bigger than him, but he's certainly not the biggest threat at 147 and if and when Floyd fights him, IT IS A BIGGER IF THAT HE'll EVEN FIGHT AGAIN, then the detractors will still be out, Zab was undisputed and that wasn't good enough because he lost to Baldomir and Baldomir wasn't good enough because he wasn't worthy of the crown apparantly.

I'm getting lost in my story here, but what my point is, is that if we want to see how Floyd can handle a welter then we need to see him in with Clottey, Margarito, Berto or Mosley. I think against Berto and Margarito i'd probably fall asleep on my bar stool like I did with the Baldomir fight, it'd be that one sided, and Mosley and Clottey are the only real welters i'd want him to fight.

I'm hoping all this big talk about Cotto stops after people get to see him get crushed by Clottey. Too big for 140, too small for 147, hope he's got a good retirement fund.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Mar 23 2009, 10:50 PM) [snapback]429445[/snapback]
1) My dude the point was that Hatton was the top 140 pounder when he fought Mayweather and with Mayweather being a natural 130 pounder there was no size advantage so that was a legitimate fight forget the weight but you can't forget either man's accomplishments.


Sorry, but no freaking way is Floyd a natural 130 pounder!!! So what if he started out his career at 130 pounds, he got older and his body matured. I would like to see PBF make 140 pounds again, not saying he could not, but it would not be easy either. And no way could he make 130 pounds! Last time he made 140 was in 2005. Do you realize the thousands of fighters that start there career at a certain weight, does not mean it is there natural weight?

Roy Jones started at 154lbs, does that make him a natural jr. middleweight? ODLH at 130? the list goes on and on.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(Fitz @ Mar 23 2009, 11:55 PM) [snapback]429455[/snapback]
1- My dude, we are arguing that his reign at 147 wasn't the best. Hatton was not a top 147 fighter. Should we give Hopkins a whole lot of credit for beating DLH because he was a top 147 or 154 fighter? We judge on what fighters did in the weight class at the time. Not what they did in other weight classes in other times.

2- I'm not arguing with that. I just don't see the point in bringing him up as a 'good win'. I'm simply stating that he wasn't great. Do you think he was a good fighter? Please don't beat around the bush or mention that he was the top dog because I agree with that. I'm just asking simply. Is he a good fighter?

3- You said:
Which is stupid, you mentioned this just because people don't agree with you. It's common to see someone pull out this card when they can't be bothered arguing. You can tell you are a big Floyd fan, you are using his tactics. When ever someone doesn't agree with him or criticises him, he says "how many fights have you had", "have you been in a ring before". I heard him use that on Larry Merchant and Brian Kenny or whatever his name is on ESPN when he got exposed a few years back, so I'm not surprised you are using the same stuff he says. lol.


My dude you write a book to respond to everybody's post when someone doesn't agree with you. I respect opinions but to try to discredit a great fighter says something. There's not much of a difference in Baldomire and John Ruiz, Juan Roldan, Pipino Cuevas and even Tony Margarito. All tough, Durable fighters that always come to fight. Not great fighters but tough, durable fighters. You notice whenever Merchant or Kenny are asked that question they dont have an answer because it's easier to criticize something you can't do. When you win 5 world titles in 5 different divisions and your still undefeated you have mastered the craft and can talk all the sh-- you wanna talk and once again I had Corrales when PBF and Corrales fought so he made me a believer. If you close your ears and eyes (if you don't like what you see) PBF is a consummate pro, never out of shape, gotta be considered the smartest guy to ever lace'em up right now cause no matter what you, me or anybody else says he's gonna always do what he feels he can do and thats the mark of greatness.
JD
QUOTE(dbdbdb @ Mar 23 2009, 10:22 PM) [snapback]429443[/snapback]
Taking some of your points Sugar Q,

I totally agree with you -- It is that business mentality that has gotten Floyd where he is financially. As an example: {Floyd vs Corley} Floyd made 3million while Corley made 150,000. That has been the pattern for some time. Floyd is about that Business along with boxing. So, all that being said, wouldn't it be safe to assume that, that same practice and business smarts will be a part of any decision to return out of retirement. I say yes!!

Financially speaking:

Floyd vs Hatton in Manchester would be a serious money-maker
Floyd vs Paquiao in Las Vegas would also be a serious Money-maker.
!
Floyd vs Mosley {Would be a fans fight} but would NOT have the same money generating potential as Hatton & Paquiao.
Floyd vs Cotto {Would be a fans fight} but would NOT have the same money generating potential as Hatton & Paquiao.

So, looking at these four potential fights, as a business man, What Fights Would You Take????

It is these kind of moves and decisions that have made Floyd financially sound ... whereas other fighters are still trying to get a decent payday. Why do you think Marquez is calling out Floyd .. For the glory .. or to finally, after a very long career make some decent money.

Sometimes Money & Glory doesn't go hand-in-hand ... and WHEN that's the case .... GO FOR THE MONEY.

As previously stated, its mainly the Floyd detractors who don't and won't give his career the credit its due. But boxing analysis, Former Greats, Sports writers and those who are the voice of boxing, have absolutely NO PROBLEM giving Floyd the props he deserves.

!


I think people struggle with the fact that ability doesn't match up to accomplishment - which says as much for his ability as it does for his disinterest in fighting for legacy. The welterweight division has had some interesting fights for him over the past year and a half or so, but he had no interest in those fights and opted to retire; but even before that he moved to welter, campaigned at welter, and then made his two biggest fights against non-welters. Now retiring is certainly his prerogative and should be respected...just don't go on spouting off that you are on the same level as guys who did stay active and fought whatever was there.

Floyd Mayweather wants to call himself Sugar Ray Leonard...or Sugar Ray Robinson...but he isn't - not even close. This isn't necessarily because of ability, it is because of his mindset.
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