Mosley is presently the man in the WW division and judging from his most recent statements wants to cash in on that position. Mosley has also, stated recently that he would like to have the winner of the Pac-man vs Hatton battle. So, he is currently in limbo until after the fight scheduled for May 02, 2009.
Complication #1: http://www.setanta.com//ie/Articles/other-...edy/gnid-49317/
Arum is already talking purse percentages for a potential Floyd vs Pac-Man match-up {If Manny beats Hatton}. Which would imply that Arum knows that this match-up is a potential huge money-maker and also seems to be softening up Floyd {In the process} to accept less than his normal purse percentage demands.
Mosley may find himself in the position of "King without a dance partner" because of Arum's preferences.
Another likely dance partner for Mosley is Cotto II, which may not bring in the paper he wants -- But would give him a chance to redeem his lost. Furthermore Cotto is scheduled to fight Clottey in June 2009 which would push a second match-up with Mosley to the end of the year.
Complication #2: Floyd is potentially scheduled to fight JMM in July 2009 -- The timing of this potential battle is perfect to set-up a match between Floyd & Manny later this year.
If plans pan-out the way they appear to be panning out -- Mosley will have no choice but to face Cotto again near the end of the year. And a potential lost to Cotto {Which is very possible} would ruin any potential money-run plans Mosley may have for the future.
From what I've collected ..... Mosley may be putting himself in a bad position and further away from any pot of gold.
Full Version: Mosley's dance partner issues
The way I see it, you've got Pacquaio-Hatton May 2, Cotto-Clottey June 13, and Mayweather-JMM July 18. Figure 2 of the 3 winners will face each other, with Mosley hoping to get whoever's left by year's end. It seems pretty evident Shane is not planning on fighting again until around October-December, which I don't think is his wisest move but for a guy like him who stays in shape year round it's probably much less of an issue.
Worst-case scenario for Shane would be Pacquaio, Clottey and Floyd all win. You know PBF-Pac would happen next which would leave Shane with the least financially desireable opponent in Clottey who also presents him a very tough physical challenge.
Now if Cotto wins and Arum doesn't want to deal with Floyd's demands he may opt to make the Pacquaio-Cotto fight, which could possibly lead to a Mayweather-Mosley fight, (if you-know-who doesn't back out). That works for me.
If Hatton wins that throws everything up in the air. But fortunately he won't. And neither will Marquez. Those two fights seem much more clear cut than Cotto-Clottey which is around 50-50 IMO.
Basically I'm saying Shane needs to be rooting his ass off for Cotto.
Worst-case scenario for Shane would be Pacquaio, Clottey and Floyd all win. You know PBF-Pac would happen next which would leave Shane with the least financially desireable opponent in Clottey who also presents him a very tough physical challenge.
Now if Cotto wins and Arum doesn't want to deal with Floyd's demands he may opt to make the Pacquaio-Cotto fight, which could possibly lead to a Mayweather-Mosley fight, (if you-know-who doesn't back out). That works for me.
If Hatton wins that throws everything up in the air. But fortunately he won't. And neither will Marquez. Those two fights seem much more clear cut than Cotto-Clottey which is around 50-50 IMO.
Basically I'm saying Shane needs to be rooting his ass off for Cotto.
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 22 2009, 01:48 PM) 
The way I see it, you've got Pacquaio-Hatton May 2, Cotto-Clottey June 13, and Mayweather-JMM July 18. Figure 2 of the 3 winners will face each other, with Mosley hoping to get whoever's left by year's end. It seems pretty evident Shane is not planning on fighting again until around October-December, which I don't think is his wisest move but for a guy like him who stays in shape year round it's probably much less of an issue.
Worst-case scenario for Shane would be Pacquaio, Clottey and Floyd all win. You know PBF-Pac would happen next which would leave Shane with the least financially desireable opponent in Clottey who also presents him a very tough physical challenge.
Now if Cotto wins and Arum doesn't want to deal with Floyd's demands he may opt to make the Pacquaio-Cotto fight, which could possibly lead to a Mayweather-Mosley fight, (if you-know-who doesn't back out). That works for me.
If Hatton wins that throws everything up in the air. But fortunately he won't. And neither will Marquez. Those two fights seem much more clear cut than Cotto-Clottey which is around 50-50 IMO.
Basically I'm saying Shane needs to be rooting his ass off for Cotto.
Worst-case scenario for Shane would be Pacquaio, Clottey and Floyd all win. You know PBF-Pac would happen next which would leave Shane with the least financially desireable opponent in Clottey who also presents him a very tough physical challenge.
Now if Cotto wins and Arum doesn't want to deal with Floyd's demands he may opt to make the Pacquaio-Cotto fight, which could possibly lead to a Mayweather-Mosley fight, (if you-know-who doesn't back out). That works for me.
If Hatton wins that throws everything up in the air. But fortunately he won't. And neither will Marquez. Those two fights seem much more clear cut than Cotto-Clottey which is around 50-50 IMO.
Basically I'm saying Shane needs to be rooting his ass off for Cotto.
Agreed!!
Mosley really needs Cotto to win because none of the HUGE money fights are leaning his way. And I really don't see a second match-up with Cotto being BIG unless its in NYC near or around the PR parade and that slots taken by Clottey. The biggest obstacle to any potential Mosley vs Floyd fight is that it doesn't have the legs to generate the money Floyd wants.
If Clottey wins, I believe he would take a fight with Mosley. But again it will not generate the kind of paper Mosley is looking for.
A Cotto win would be good for Mosley, because it generates a decent purse ... not huge, but decent.
Mosley should stay busy by fighting Cintron, Berto, or Lujan. These would be good stay busy fights that are very winnable for him.
LOL... Paul Williams has been calling out Mosley. PWill would fight him tomorrow.
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Apr 22 2009, 03:39 PM)
LOL... Paul Williams has been calling out Mosley. PWill would fight him tomorrow.
PW has called out everyone and their mother, with no takers.
Mosley won't take him up on that offer because the risk is much too great and the reward much too low. Especially since both DLH & Mosley were in the audience when PW racked up 1200 punches with Winky.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 22 2009, 04:00 PM)
PW has called out everyone and their mother, with no takers.
Mosley won't take him up on that offer because the risk is much too great and the reward much too low. Especially since both DLH & Mosley were in the audience when PW racked up 1200 punches with Winky.
Mosley won't take him up on that offer because the risk is much too great and the reward much too low. Especially since both DLH & Mosley were in the audience when PW racked up 1200 punches with Winky.
Oh ok... Kind of like Mayweather-Margarito?
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Apr 22 2009, 04:19 PM)
Oh ok... Kind of like Mayweather-Margarito?
Sounds familiar Like I stated in another thread ..... there's nothing Floyd has done that isn't practiced by many other fighters in the game.
Floyd's made it an art though. He's made it the entire theme of his latter-day career. No one else has practiced it to the same degree as he has. Maybe no one else in the history of the sport.
Shane's always fought the toughest guys out there. Forest, Winky, Cotto, Margarito, etc. At 37 and clearly past his best, let the man eat some cake for once.
Shane's always fought the toughest guys out there. Forest, Winky, Cotto, Margarito, etc. At 37 and clearly past his best, let the man eat some cake for once.
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 22 2009, 06:00 PM)
Floyd's made it an art though. He's made it the entire theme of his latter-day career. No one else has practiced it to the same degree as he has. Maybe no one else in the history of the sport.
Shane's always fought the toughest guys out there. Forest, Winky, Cotto, Margarito, etc. At 37 and clearly past his best, let the man eat some cake for once.
Shane's always fought the toughest guys out there. Forest, Winky, Cotto, Margarito, etc. At 37 and clearly past his best, let the man eat some cake for once.
With the exception of Margarito... Who has Floyd avoided?
By the way... Welcome to the team... You were long overdue!
i think if berto gets past urango shane would take a look at him. like previous posts if cotto loses to clottey then shane will def have to look at the berto or maybe if hatton after he loses to pac cuz i see pac vs money may next after pacs win... hatt and shane are both golden boy fighters should be easy fight to make and that fight would prob still bring more money to the table than a clottey or cotto
Mosley should root for a Hatton victory, which I think is very possible. A Hatton-PBF rematch is not that desirable, and Mosley would stand to make money fighting either of them. I don't think it's a mistake sitting idle until after May 2 (unless somehow he could land a PBF fight before Marquez), but Mosley needs to pull the trigger on his next fight immediately after the outcome is known. If Pac does win, I'd think about getting in the ring with Williams, because we don't know how his body will respond to moving back down in weight.
As a huge fan of Mosley, it does dissappoint me he does not want to fight PW, though until PW gets serious and drops down it really means nothing. But I can understand his position at his age wanting big name fights, and no one even knows PW yet, which is a damn shame considering he is one of the very few fighters today wanting to prove himself against anyone. I personally hope PW drops back down and he gets a big fight.
I hope Shane does not wait around too long, I wish he would take a busy fight to stay sharp. This is just very frustrating waiting around to see how the welterweight picture pans out.
I hope Shane does not wait around too long, I wish he would take a busy fight to stay sharp. This is just very frustrating waiting around to see how the welterweight picture pans out.
mosely should have taken the berto fight.. i get the feeling he's gonna be on the shelf for a while.. at his age that cant help him he needs if nuthin else stay busy fights... i think something about berto bothers his people.. they are not confidant in that fight for mosely... should he have won he would have picked up another belt and stayed busy...
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Apr 22 2009, 05:57 PM)
With the exception of Margarito... Who has Floyd avoided?
By the way... Welcome to the team... You were long overdue!
By the way... Welcome to the team... You were long overdue!
He hasn't outright ducked any other fighter specifically the way he did Margarito. He's just consistently taken the path of least resistance. In 2007 I wouldn't say he ducked Mosley and Cotto, but he did chose to fight Hatton over either one of them when most everyone recognized Hatton as the easiest of the three. Juts consistent moves like that going back to '05. Gatti over Tszyu, Judah and Baldomir over Margarito, Hatton over Mosley or Cotto. Now it looks like Marquez over Mosley.
I just don't think anyone can point to anything Shane's done or doing and say it's no different than Floyd. Shane's career is defined by his willingness to fight anybody. He took $4 million to fight Winky instead of $14 million to fight Oscar for a third time on principal. Was it smart? Hell no. Did his career suffer as a result? Hell yes. But if nothing else, that decision alone should ensure that he never, ever gets compared to a guy like Mayweather.
And it's unfair to hold Mosley accountable as the man ducking Paul Williams. None of the welterweights wants to fight Paul Williams. Not Mosley, not Margarito, not Cotto, not Mayweather, not Berto, etc. No one is going to take that risk. In the case of Mayweather and Margarito, there was a mandate from the boxing public for Mayweather specifically to fight Tony, and he refused. Very different situation to the one Paul Williams is in, which is more like Winky Wright's years ago.
With all that said, I wouldn't be at all shocked to see Mosley wind up being the guy to accept the challenge and fight Paul Williams before the end of the year. If it happens, he'll lose, his career will suffer, Mayweather et al will use it as an excuse to dismiss him from the discussion permanently. And people will still sit here and say Floyd's the man not Shane. SMMFH.
Oh, and thanks for the warm welcome Marv!
I see Mosley getting the Shaft as well. He's waiting on Manny Pac, but I don't see Manny going anywhere near Shane...
The way it looks, I would predict that Shane will fight Berto this fall. Floyd would probably fight the Hatton-Pac winner and PWill fighting a 154 fighter like Santos. I would love to see PWill get Pavlik in the ring but I think Kelly will fight Abe. As far as Cotto- Clottey, that type of match up screams REMATCH... I hope there is a decisive winner but who knows? Too bad for Shane though... time is ticking. In a perfect world we would see Mayweather-Mosley.
The way it looks, I would predict that Shane will fight Berto this fall. Floyd would probably fight the Hatton-Pac winner and PWill fighting a 154 fighter like Santos. I would love to see PWill get Pavlik in the ring but I think Kelly will fight Abe. As far as Cotto- Clottey, that type of match up screams REMATCH... I hope there is a decisive winner but who knows? Too bad for Shane though... time is ticking. In a perfect world we would see Mayweather-Mosley.
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 23 2009, 12:48 PM)
He hasn't outright ducked any other fighter specifically the way he did Margarito. He's just consistently taken the path of least resistance. In 2007 I wouldn't say he ducked Mosley and Cotto, but he did chose to fight Hatton over either one of them when most everyone recognized Hatton as the easiest of the three. Juts consistent moves like that going back to '05. Gatti over Tszyu, Judah and Baldomir over Margarito, Hatton over Mosley or Cotto. Now it looks like Marquez over Mosley.
In 2007, Floyd made the decision to fight DLH & Hatton for a total purse of over 50 Million.
What combination of two fights between (Cotto, Mosley, Margarito) would have yielded the same or ever close to 50 Million.
Floyds actions were justified!!!!
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 23 2009, 12:48 PM)
I just don't think anyone can point to anything Shane's done or doing and say it's no different than Floyd. Shane's career is defined by his willingness to fight anybody. He took $4 million to fight Winky instead of $14 million to fight Oscar for a third time on principal. Was it smart? Hell no. Did his career suffer as a result? Hell yes. But if nothing else, that decision alone should ensure that he never, ever gets compared to a guy like Mayweather.
With the exception of DLH -- Mosley lost each of his toughest fights.
Reference: http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...2&cat=boxer
And since when is credit given for losing. I'll admit that it takes heart to challenge the Big Dogs. But the goal is to win and every time Mosley fought a Big Dog ... he lost. It doesn't take away from his heart, but it also doesn't add to his credentials.
Floyd fought many Big Dogs prior to WW and it has CLEARLY been established that Floyd only moved up to challenge DLH. Hatton {Since many mention him} was a viable opponent who was undefeated, gave each of his opponents hell and was choosen by many to be the one to hand Floyd his first defeat. When it didn't happen -- Many switched their rap {On the spot} and then stated that Hatton was too small to win.
Again in a head-to-head matchup ........... Floyds record is better than Mosleys. And I throw down the gauntlet for anyone to prove different. Furthermore, Floyd hasn't lost yet.
Do the comparison yourself ... its all there in black & White.
Mosley:
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...2&cat=boxer
Floyd:
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...2&cat=boxer
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 23 2009, 12:48 PM)
And it's unfair to hold Mosley accountable as the man ducking Paul Williams. None of the welterweights wants to fight Paul Williams. Not Mosley, not Margarito, not Cotto, not Mayweather, not Berto, etc. No one is going to take that risk. In the case of Mayweather and Margarito, there was a mandate from the boxing public for Mayweather specifically to fight Tony, and he refused. Very different situation to the one Paul Williams is in, which is more like Winky Wright's years ago.
Since when does so-called fan mandates dictate what matches actually happen. If the potential fight shows the promise of generating a good purse it will happen, in spite of what the fans want. And speaking of this so-called mandate -- Only Floyds detractors wanted to see that fight. Because they were under the out-of-mind impression that AM would beat him.
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 23 2009, 12:48 PM)
With all that said, I wouldn't be at all shocked to see Mosley wind up being the guy to accept the challenge and fight Paul Williams before the end of the year. If it happens, he'll lose, his career will suffer, Mayweather et al will use it as an excuse to dismiss him from the discussion permanently. And people will still sit here and say Floyd's the man not Shane. SMMFH.
Both Mosley and Floyd are the problem for any match-up between them. Because they both want top dollar and they both want top billings.
PW already stated that he is returning to WW to re-claim the belt he had to forfeit. Mosley isn't crazy -- And will not be the first victim in the WW division when PW returns.
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Apr 22 2009, 08:47 PM)
As a huge fan of Mosley, it does dissappoint me he does not want to fight PW, though until PW gets serious and drops down it really means nothing. But I can understand his position at his age wanting big name fights, and no one even knows PW yet, which is a damn shame considering he is one of the very few fighters today wanting to prove himself against anyone. I personally hope PW drops back down and he gets a big fight.
I hope Shane does not wait around too long, I wish he would take a busy fight to stay sharp. This is just very frustrating waiting around to see how the welterweight picture pans out.
I hope Shane does not wait around too long, I wish he would take a busy fight to stay sharp. This is just very frustrating waiting around to see how the welterweight picture pans out.
as a shane fan ya should want him to stay as far away as he can from P-will. Wrong fight not only for all the physical advantages p-will would have but like you mentioned it wouldnt bring much money to the table for shane.
i get a felling floyd beats marq then takes on shane early 2010 shane doesnt take a "busy" fight thus is rusty and floyd crusies to a UD lol or maybe its more like wishful thinking cuz ive always wanted to see shane vs floyd
I would like to see shane take a busy fight too but dont know who is out there for him? unless he swallows his pride fights a lesser name on hbo or a undercard or sumthing cuz i dont see arum puttin pac with shane im sure he'll pursue a fight with floyd
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 23 2009, 12:54 PM)
In 2007, Floyd made the decision to fight DLH & Hatton for a total purse of over 50 Million.
What combination of two fights between (Cotto, Mosley, Margarito) would have yielded the same or ever close to 50 Million.
Floyds actions were justified!!!!
What combination of two fights between (Cotto, Mosley, Margarito) would have yielded the same or ever close to 50 Million.
Floyds actions were justified!!!!
2007 is not the year in question here. 2006 is. That was the year PBF fought Zab when the fight no longer meant anything, then turned down Margarito for what would have at the time been double his career high payday.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 23 2009, 12:54 PM)
With the exception of DLH -- Mosley lost each of his toughest fights.
Reference: http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...2&cat=boxer
And since when is credit given for losing. I'll admit that it takes heart to challenge the Big Dogs. But the goal is to win and every time Mosley fought a Big Dog ... he lost. It doesn't take away from his heart, but it also doesn't add to his credentials.
Reference: http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...2&cat=boxer
And since when is credit given for losing. I'll admit that it takes heart to challenge the Big Dogs. But the goal is to win and every time Mosley fought a Big Dog ... he lost. It doesn't take away from his heart, but it also doesn't add to his credentials.
You and I have been down this road before. For my tastes, I'll take Shane daring to go above and beyond his comfort zone over Floyd safely doing what he's done. To me, Shane's professional resume is more impressive than Floyd's, though I realize most would not agree with me.
The goal is to be GREAT, not just to win. Fighters like Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns & Evander Holyfield all saw their legacies improve after valiant efforts in defeat.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 23 2009, 12:54 PM)
Floyd fought many Big Dogs prior to WW and it has CLEARLY been established that Floyd only moved up to challenge DLH.
Again, Floyd's career prior to WW (actually Jr. WW) is not what's in question here. It's what he's done after moving up from 135 that is. And if he only moved up to challenge DLH (I'd argue he first moved up to have at Gatti), then what's he doing still swimming in the big dogs pool but only challenging the little pups to come in and race?
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 23 2009, 12:54 PM)
Since when does so-called fan mandates dictate what matches actually happen. If the potential fight shows the promise of generating a good purse it will happen, in spite of what the fans want. And speaking of this so-called mandate -- Only Floyds detractors wanted to see that fight. Because they were under the out-of-mind impression that AM would beat him.
Double a career-high payday doesn't equate to a good purse?
It wasn't just the fans - or Floyd's detractors - mandating the Mayweather-Margarito fight, it was a large contigent of the boxing community as well. It was a fight that was supposed to happen, bottom line. The promoters wanted it. HBO wanted it. Damn near every person involved in the sport of boxing wanted to see that fight. One guy didn't.
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 23 2009, 10:32 PM)
2007 is not the year in question here. 2006 is. That was the year PBF fought Zab when the fight no longer meant anything, then turned down Margarito for what would have at the time been double his career high payday.
You and I have been down this road before. For my tastes, I'll take Shane daring to go above and beyond his comfort zone over Floyd safely doing what he's done. To me, Shane's professional resume is more impressive than Floyd's, though I realize most would not agree with me.
The goal is to be GREAT, not just to win. Fighters like Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns & Evander Holyfield all saw their legacies improve after valiant efforts in defeat.
Again, Floyd's career prior to WW (actually Jr. WW) is not what's in question here. It's what he's done after moving up from 135 that is. And if he only moved up to challenge DLH (I'd argue he first moved up to have at Gatti), then what's he doing still swimming in the big dogs pool but only challenging the little pups to come in and race?
Double a career-high payday doesn't equate to a good purse?
It wasn't just the fans - or Floyd's detractors - mandating the Mayweather-Margarito fight, it was a large contigent of the boxing community as well. It was a fight that was supposed to happen, bottom line. The promoters wanted it. HBO wanted it. Damn near every person involved in the sport of boxing wanted to see that fight. One guy didn't.
You and I have been down this road before. For my tastes, I'll take Shane daring to go above and beyond his comfort zone over Floyd safely doing what he's done. To me, Shane's professional resume is more impressive than Floyd's, though I realize most would not agree with me.
The goal is to be GREAT, not just to win. Fighters like Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns & Evander Holyfield all saw their legacies improve after valiant efforts in defeat.
Again, Floyd's career prior to WW (actually Jr. WW) is not what's in question here. It's what he's done after moving up from 135 that is. And if he only moved up to challenge DLH (I'd argue he first moved up to have at Gatti), then what's he doing still swimming in the big dogs pool but only challenging the little pups to come in and race?
Double a career-high payday doesn't equate to a good purse?
It wasn't just the fans - or Floyd's detractors - mandating the Mayweather-Margarito fight, it was a large contigent of the boxing community as well. It was a fight that was supposed to happen, bottom line. The promoters wanted it. HBO wanted it. Damn near every person involved in the sport of boxing wanted to see that fight. One guy didn't.
AGREE, AGREE and AGREE!!!
Floyd has a '0' on his record..big fuck! He is a money chasing coward who has not proved himself for the last 5 years!!
Floyd zipping through the weights and picking and choosing fights is not as impressive as someone like B Hop or whoever holding it down in one weight.
Shane's record is patchy...but who's to say Floyd's wouldn't be if he hadn't taken on the same opposition?
When Floyd was down at super-feather, he looked to me like an ATG. He was taking on everyone at the weight, from Hernandez to Chavez to Corrales in an attempt to clean it out. Even when he went to lightweight, he took on Castillo twice. That was ATG stuff.
Everything since has been less than thrilling. He went to jr welter and welter and took on the biggest names with the least risk. GRANTED...he's in it for the money, and Gatti, DLH and Hatton gave him that. But c'mon, surely in the 5 years or so he's been up at jr welter/welter he could have found time to take on a Margarito, Mosley or Williams? Y'know, at least ONE fight that was more about legacy than money?
Mosley has taken several fights that were more about legacy than money...Forrest, Wright and Margarito. All of those were fucking tough fights that he needn't have taken. He could have settled for other, less demanding fights and gotten paid just as well or much more. Instead he took the hardest path, and that tells me a lot about Shane. It's lessened his reputation as an ATG (because he lost a bunch of fights), but it's STRENGTHENED his reputation as a fighter, something I wish Floyd would do.
It ain't all about the '0'.
Black
Shane's record is patchy...but who's to say Floyd's wouldn't be if he hadn't taken on the same opposition?
When Floyd was down at super-feather, he looked to me like an ATG. He was taking on everyone at the weight, from Hernandez to Chavez to Corrales in an attempt to clean it out. Even when he went to lightweight, he took on Castillo twice. That was ATG stuff.
Everything since has been less than thrilling. He went to jr welter and welter and took on the biggest names with the least risk. GRANTED...he's in it for the money, and Gatti, DLH and Hatton gave him that. But c'mon, surely in the 5 years or so he's been up at jr welter/welter he could have found time to take on a Margarito, Mosley or Williams? Y'know, at least ONE fight that was more about legacy than money?
Mosley has taken several fights that were more about legacy than money...Forrest, Wright and Margarito. All of those were fucking tough fights that he needn't have taken. He could have settled for other, less demanding fights and gotten paid just as well or much more. Instead he took the hardest path, and that tells me a lot about Shane. It's lessened his reputation as an ATG (because he lost a bunch of fights), but it's STRENGTHENED his reputation as a fighter, something I wish Floyd would do.
It ain't all about the '0'.
Black
QUOTE (blackbelt2003 @ Apr 25 2009, 01:45 AM)
Mosley has taken several fights that were more about legacy than money...Forrest, Wright and Margarito. All of those were fucking tough fights that he needn't have taken. He could have settled for other, less demanding fights and gotten paid just as well or much more. Instead he took the hardest path, and that tells me a lot about Shane. It's lessened his reputation as an ATG (because he lost a bunch of fights), but it's STRENGTHENED his reputation as a fighter, something I wish Floyd would do.
The other dangerous fight Mosley took that goes under the radar because he won convincingly, though I think it was perceived as a dangerous and not totally necessary fight for Mosley at the time was his fight with Collazo.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 23 2009, 01:54 PM)
In 2007, Floyd made the decision to fight DLH & Hatton for a total purse of over 50 Million.
What combination of two fights between (Cotto, Mosley, Margarito) would have yielded the same or ever close to 50 Million.
Floyds actions were justified!!!!
With the exception of DLH -- Mosley lost each of his toughest fights.
Reference: http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...2&cat=boxer
And since when is credit given for losing. I'll admit that it takes heart to challenge the Big Dogs. But the goal is to win and every time Mosley fought a Big Dog ... he lost. It doesn't take away from his heart, but it also doesn't add to his credentials.
Floyd fought many Big Dogs prior to WW and it has CLEARLY been established that Floyd only moved up to challenge DLH. Hatton {Since many mention him} was a viable opponent who was undefeated, gave each of his opponents hell and was choosen by many to be the one to hand Floyd his first defeat. When it didn't happen -- Many switched their rap {On the spot} and then stated that Hatton was too small to win.
Again in a head-to-head matchup ........... Floyds record is better than Mosleys. And I throw down the gauntlet for anyone to prove different. Furthermore, Floyd hasn't lost yet.
Do the comparison yourself ... its all there in black & White.
Mosley:
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...2&cat=boxer
Floyd:
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...2&cat=boxer
Since when does so-called fan mandates dictate what matches actually happen. If the potential fight shows the promise of generating a good purse it will happen, in spite of what the fans want. And speaking of this so-called mandate -- Only Floyds detractors wanted to see that fight. Because they were under the out-of-mind impression that AM would beat him.
Both Mosley and Floyd are the problem for any match-up between them. Because they both want top dollar and they both want top billings.
PW already stated that he is returning to WW to re-claim the belt he had to forfeit. Mosley isn't crazy -- And will not be the first victim in the WW division when PW returns.
What combination of two fights between (Cotto, Mosley, Margarito) would have yielded the same or ever close to 50 Million.
Floyds actions were justified!!!!
With the exception of DLH -- Mosley lost each of his toughest fights.
Reference: http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...2&cat=boxer
And since when is credit given for losing. I'll admit that it takes heart to challenge the Big Dogs. But the goal is to win and every time Mosley fought a Big Dog ... he lost. It doesn't take away from his heart, but it also doesn't add to his credentials.
Floyd fought many Big Dogs prior to WW and it has CLEARLY been established that Floyd only moved up to challenge DLH. Hatton {Since many mention him} was a viable opponent who was undefeated, gave each of his opponents hell and was choosen by many to be the one to hand Floyd his first defeat. When it didn't happen -- Many switched their rap {On the spot} and then stated that Hatton was too small to win.
Again in a head-to-head matchup ........... Floyds record is better than Mosleys. And I throw down the gauntlet for anyone to prove different. Furthermore, Floyd hasn't lost yet.
Do the comparison yourself ... its all there in black & White.
Mosley:
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...2&cat=boxer
Floyd:
http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human...2&cat=boxer
Since when does so-called fan mandates dictate what matches actually happen. If the potential fight shows the promise of generating a good purse it will happen, in spite of what the fans want. And speaking of this so-called mandate -- Only Floyds detractors wanted to see that fight. Because they were under the out-of-mind impression that AM would beat him.
Both Mosley and Floyd are the problem for any match-up between them. Because they both want top dollar and they both want top billings.
PW already stated that he is returning to WW to re-claim the belt he had to forfeit. Mosley isn't crazy -- And will not be the first victim in the WW division when PW returns.
Dayum my dude, I got's to give it up. That's real talk 101. I couldn't have said it better. Great job.
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Apr 24 2009, 04:37 PM)
Dayum my dude, I got's to give it up. That's real talk 101. I couldn't have said it better. Great job.
Really? I think this one...
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 23 2009, 04:32 PM)
2007 is not the year in question here. 2006 is. That was the year PBF fought Zab when the fight no longer meant anything, then turned down Margarito for what would have at the time been double his career high payday.
You and I have been down this road before. For my tastes, I'll take Shane daring to go above and beyond his comfort zone over Floyd safely doing what he's done. To me, Shane's professional resume is more impressive than Floyd's, though I realize most would not agree with me.
The goal is to be GREAT, not just to win. Fighters like Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns & Evander Holyfield all saw their legacies improve after valiant efforts in defeat.
Again, Floyd's career prior to WW (actually Jr. WW) is not what's in question here. It's what he's done after moving up from 135 that is. And if he only moved up to challenge DLH (I'd argue he first moved up to have at Gatti), then what's he doing still swimming in the big dogs pool but only challenging the little pups to come in and race?
Double a career-high payday doesn't equate to a good purse?
It wasn't just the fans - or Floyd's detractors - mandating the Mayweather-Margarito fight, it was a large contigent of the boxing community as well. It was a fight that was supposed to happen, bottom line. The promoters wanted it. HBO wanted it. Damn near every person involved in the sport of boxing wanted to see that fight. One guy didn't.
You and I have been down this road before. For my tastes, I'll take Shane daring to go above and beyond his comfort zone over Floyd safely doing what he's done. To me, Shane's professional resume is more impressive than Floyd's, though I realize most would not agree with me.
The goal is to be GREAT, not just to win. Fighters like Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns & Evander Holyfield all saw their legacies improve after valiant efforts in defeat.
Again, Floyd's career prior to WW (actually Jr. WW) is not what's in question here. It's what he's done after moving up from 135 that is. And if he only moved up to challenge DLH (I'd argue he first moved up to have at Gatti), then what's he doing still swimming in the big dogs pool but only challenging the little pups to come in and race?
Double a career-high payday doesn't equate to a good purse?
It wasn't just the fans - or Floyd's detractors - mandating the Mayweather-Margarito fight, it was a large contigent of the boxing community as well. It was a fight that was supposed to happen, bottom line. The promoters wanted it. HBO wanted it. Damn near every person involved in the sport of boxing wanted to see that fight. One guy didn't.
...picked it apart quite nicely.
Simple questions for everyone
Which fight would you have preferred to see happen instead of the other. I'm not talking legacy, i'm not talking about who had the most money to offer, i'm not talking boxing politics... all that shit is out the window. As a boxing fan, which fights would you have preferred to watch
PAST:
Floyd vs Baldomir or vs Margarito
Floyd vs Judah or Margarito
Present:
Floyd vs Marquez or vs Mosely?
Answers please.
Which fight would you have preferred to see happen instead of the other. I'm not talking legacy, i'm not talking about who had the most money to offer, i'm not talking boxing politics... all that shit is out the window. As a boxing fan, which fights would you have preferred to watch
PAST:
Floyd vs Baldomir or vs Margarito
Floyd vs Judah or Margarito
Present:
Floyd vs Marquez or vs Mosely?
Answers please.
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Apr 25 2009, 02:04 AM)
Simple questions for everyone
Which fight would you have preferred to see happen instead of the other. I'm not talking legacy, i'm not talking about who had the most money to offer, i'm not talking boxing politics... all that shit is out the window. As a boxing fan, which fights would you have preferred to watch
PAST:
Floyd vs Baldomir or vs Margarito
Floyd vs Judah or Margarito
Present:
Floyd vs Marquez or vs Mosely?
Answers please.
Which fight would you have preferred to see happen instead of the other. I'm not talking legacy, i'm not talking about who had the most money to offer, i'm not talking boxing politics... all that shit is out the window. As a boxing fan, which fights would you have preferred to watch
PAST:
Floyd vs Baldomir or vs Margarito
Floyd vs Judah or Margarito
Present:
Floyd vs Marquez or vs Mosely?
Answers please.
I would have much rather seen Floyd vs. Judah. I just watched that fight two nights ago. That thing was pretty competitive early on. Floyd was trying to stop him before the low blow and I think had it not happen Judah would have been stopped by Floyd. But thats just my opinion.
Fair enough
What about the other 2
What about the other 2
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Apr 25 2009, 02:56 AM)
Fair enough
What about the other 2
What about the other 2
From and financial and political standpoint he should have took on Baldabore but for his Legacy he should have went for Margarito.
I think he'll eventually fight Shane simply because he doesn't like all the fame and media attention Shane is getting now but I think it wont be for another fight or two. Even though he is the best fighter in the world you cant just come off a long layoff and jump in with Shane when his confidence is sky high and he has been more active lately.
I actually didn't mind Floyd taking on Judah and Baldy as it won him two of the belts, although I wish he hadn't given up the IBF one.
but I just can't believe that an 'all time great' like Mayweather, after winning the belts, couldn't find time to take on Margarito, Williams, Cotto or Mosley. That's FOUR big names he missed out! FOUR!
If Floyd really was the modern day Sugar Ray or Ali, like he keeps saying he is, he wouldn't have missed out on all those fights.
Black
but I just can't believe that an 'all time great' like Mayweather, after winning the belts, couldn't find time to take on Margarito, Williams, Cotto or Mosley. That's FOUR big names he missed out! FOUR!
If Floyd really was the modern day Sugar Ray or Ali, like he keeps saying he is, he wouldn't have missed out on all those fights.
Black
From memory, i think the Baldi fight made him around 8 million. The problem with that being it was almost the exact same amount Margs was offering him. Which basically disposes of the financial argument for fighting baldomir. Which leaves legacy and the thrill of being the linear champ.... yawn. I personally dont believe for a second that yje linear belt came into floyds mind for legacy reasons even for a second, at best it was just a tool to sidestep margarito who seemed dangerous at the time
As for Marquez, even PBF the man of sublime boxing skills took a few tune ups as he moved up, and Marquez is going to fight a bigger faster younger more skilled fighter on his first fight 10 pounds north of his last match? The problem with floyd is he never got out of tune up mode. He's been tuned so much he could be a violin in the philharmonic orchestra. Its just too bad he is afraid to play a challenging beethoven symphony at the opera house, instead he consistently choses the the sweet notes in his repetoire to play mary had a little lamb. What i find sickening is he plays nursery rhymes to packed houses and gets a standing ovation...
Marquez called out PBF, so have many others, PBF could have said no. He didnt this time, and given the circumstances i think it reflects poorly on him. And whilst people may hug PBF's nuts for a few years after he is gone, when future generations with a rational perspective examine floyds career above 135, he will suffer for it in the history books
As for Marquez, even PBF the man of sublime boxing skills took a few tune ups as he moved up, and Marquez is going to fight a bigger faster younger more skilled fighter on his first fight 10 pounds north of his last match? The problem with floyd is he never got out of tune up mode. He's been tuned so much he could be a violin in the philharmonic orchestra. Its just too bad he is afraid to play a challenging beethoven symphony at the opera house, instead he consistently choses the the sweet notes in his repetoire to play mary had a little lamb. What i find sickening is he plays nursery rhymes to packed houses and gets a standing ovation...
Marquez called out PBF, so have many others, PBF could have said no. He didnt this time, and given the circumstances i think it reflects poorly on him. And whilst people may hug PBF's nuts for a few years after he is gone, when future generations with a rational perspective examine floyds career above 135, he will suffer for it in the history books
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Apr 25 2009, 05:20 AM)
From memory, i think the Baldi fight made him around 8 million. The problem with that being it was almost the exact same amount Margs was offering him. Which basically disposes of the financial argument for fighting baldomir. Which leaves legacy and the thrill of being the linear champ.... yawn. I personally dont believe for a second that yje linear belt came into floyds mind for legacy reasons even for a second, at best it was just a tool to sidestep margarito who seemed dangerous at the time
As for Marquez, even PBF the man of sublime boxing skills took a few tune ups as he moved up, and Marquez is going to fight a bigger faster younger more skilled fighter on his first fight 10 pounds north of his last match? The problem with floyd is he never got out of tune up mode. He's been tuned so much he could be a violin in the philharmonic orchestra. Its just too bad he is afraid to play a challenging beethoven symphony at the opera house, instead he consistently choses the the sweet notes in his repetoire to play mary had a little lamb. What i find sickening is he plays nursery rhymes to packed houses and gets a standing ovation...
Marquez called out PBF, so have many others, PBF could have said no. He didnt this time, and given the circumstances i think it reflects poorly on him. And whilst people may hug PBF's nuts for a few years after he is gone, when future generations with a rational perspective examine floyds career above 135, he will suffer for it in the history books
As for Marquez, even PBF the man of sublime boxing skills took a few tune ups as he moved up, and Marquez is going to fight a bigger faster younger more skilled fighter on his first fight 10 pounds north of his last match? The problem with floyd is he never got out of tune up mode. He's been tuned so much he could be a violin in the philharmonic orchestra. Its just too bad he is afraid to play a challenging beethoven symphony at the opera house, instead he consistently choses the the sweet notes in his repetoire to play mary had a little lamb. What i find sickening is he plays nursery rhymes to packed houses and gets a standing ovation...
Marquez called out PBF, so have many others, PBF could have said no. He didnt this time, and given the circumstances i think it reflects poorly on him. And whilst people may hug PBF's nuts for a few years after he is gone, when future generations with a rational perspective examine floyds career above 135, he will suffer for it in the history books
That's crazy. How many fighters have PBF taken on that were coming up in weight? Even Hatton had already won a title at 147 before they fought. When all is said and done Marquez name will be bigger on PBF's record than Margarito's would've been. When people examine Floyd's career above 135 their gonna see record breaking wins over DelaHoya and Hatton, also wins over a bunch of former champions like Corley (who came within seconds of derailing Cotto), Sharmba (former world champ and P4P top 10) the beat down of Gatti (one of the most exciting fighters of his time) and the exciting drama of the Zab fight. Unfortunately unless Shane follows up his destruction of Margarito with something big his career will be tainted by the 4 losses.
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Apr 26 2009, 06:03 AM)
breaking wins over DelaHoya and Hatton, also wins over a bunch of former champions like Corley (who came within seconds of derailing Cotto), Sharmba (former world champ and P4P top 10) the beat down of Gatti (one of the most exciting fighters of his time) and the exciting drama of the Zab fight. Unfortunately unless Shane follows up his destruction of Margarito with something big his career will be tainted by the 4 losses.
Way to sugar coat things.
All right let's deal with this nonsense.
If 2007 was not the year you were referring to then you shouldn't have put it in the post I responded to. {Look at what you wrote in the post I responded to {2007}} So let's look at the adjusted year 2006. Floyd fought Baldomir {Linear Champ} & Judah { Vacant IBO Belt}. AM fought Gomez & Clottey. So when exactly were these two suppose to mix it up when both had an active year?
The GOAL is to get PAID!!! I don't know what world you live in, but legacy doesn't pay the bills. Not before and certainly not in 2009. Many want to criticize Floyd for going after that paper but the name of the game is PRIZE-FIGHTING!!!!! And walking the street with legacy won't get you more than a cup of coffee on a good day.
If a fighter achieves GREATNESS while fighting for money, that's all good. But for any fighter to fight for LEGACY ONLY is both foolish and stupid. Do you want a tally of former fighters who were considered GREAT at one time that don't have a pot to piss in today?????
This is the nonsense spewed by people who DO NOT make a living in the sport of boxing. It about the money!!!! Fuck what idiot fans on boxing forums say!!! How many donations have these same fans made to any organization that supports retired boxers????
Floyd is RIGHT & CORRECT for going after that paper ... Because there is NO ONE out there in the audience or on boxing forums who will contribute one thin nickle to helping them when they're out of the sport, slurring their words.
This goes back to the point I made earlier THERE IS NOTHING THAT FLOYD HAS DONE OR IS DOING THAT OTHER FIGHTERS HAVEN'T OR AREN'T DOING AS WELL. NOT ONE THING.
The only difference is the haters\detractors only notice it when Floyd's name it attached to the act.
Exactly who is this LARGE contingent of the boxing community??? That is the most off-the-mark statement I've read on this forum.
It was the haters\detractors who wanted to watch that fight because they BLINDLY thought that AM would beat Floyd .... PERIOD.
The same thing with Mosley & Cotto ... the haters\detractors honestly believe that one of these two have a chance of beating him. So those potential fights have to be made ... it is a matter of life & death ... someone out there has to beat Floyd.
It an obsession with these idiot so-called "LARGE contingent of the boxing community" -- Mosley can lose, Cotto can lose, AM can lose .. BUT it don't mean a thing if Floyd is still out there UNDEFEATED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 23 2009, 05:32 PM)
2007 is not the year in question here. 2006 is. That was the year PBF fought Zab when the fight no longer meant anything, then turned down Margarito for what would have at the time been double his career high payday.
If 2007 was not the year you were referring to then you shouldn't have put it in the post I responded to. {Look at what you wrote in the post I responded to {2007}} So let's look at the adjusted year 2006. Floyd fought Baldomir {Linear Champ} & Judah { Vacant IBO Belt}. AM fought Gomez & Clottey. So when exactly were these two suppose to mix it up when both had an active year?
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 23 2009, 05:32 PM)
You and I have been down this road before. For my tastes, I'll take Shane daring to go above and beyond his comfort zone over Floyd safely doing what he's done. To me, Shane's professional resume is more impressive than Floyd's, though I realize most would not agree with me.
The goal is to be GREAT, not just to win. Fighters like Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns & Evander Holyfield all saw their legacies improve after valiant efforts in defeat.
The goal is to be GREAT, not just to win. Fighters like Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns & Evander Holyfield all saw their legacies improve after valiant efforts in defeat.
The GOAL is to get PAID!!! I don't know what world you live in, but legacy doesn't pay the bills. Not before and certainly not in 2009. Many want to criticize Floyd for going after that paper but the name of the game is PRIZE-FIGHTING!!!!! And walking the street with legacy won't get you more than a cup of coffee on a good day.
If a fighter achieves GREATNESS while fighting for money, that's all good. But for any fighter to fight for LEGACY ONLY is both foolish and stupid. Do you want a tally of former fighters who were considered GREAT at one time that don't have a pot to piss in today?????
This is the nonsense spewed by people who DO NOT make a living in the sport of boxing. It about the money!!!! Fuck what idiot fans on boxing forums say!!! How many donations have these same fans made to any organization that supports retired boxers????
Floyd is RIGHT & CORRECT for going after that paper ... Because there is NO ONE out there in the audience or on boxing forums who will contribute one thin nickle to helping them when they're out of the sport, slurring their words.
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 23 2009, 05:32 PM)
Again, Floyd's career prior to WW (actually Jr. WW) is not what's in question here. It's what he's done after moving up from 135 that is. And if he only moved up to challenge DLH (I'd argue he first moved up to have at Gatti), then what's he doing still swimming in the big dogs pool but only challenging the little pups to come in and race?
This goes back to the point I made earlier THERE IS NOTHING THAT FLOYD HAS DONE OR IS DOING THAT OTHER FIGHTERS HAVEN'T OR AREN'T DOING AS WELL. NOT ONE THING.
The only difference is the haters\detractors only notice it when Floyd's name it attached to the act.
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Apr 23 2009, 05:32 PM)
Double a career-high payday doesn't equate to a good purse?
It wasn't just the fans - or Floyd's detractors - mandating the Mayweather-Margarito fight, it was a large contigent of the boxing community as well. It was a fight that was supposed to happen, bottom line. The promoters wanted it. HBO wanted it. Damn near every person involved in the sport of boxing wanted to see that fight. One guy didn't.
It wasn't just the fans - or Floyd's detractors - mandating the Mayweather-Margarito fight, it was a large contigent of the boxing community as well. It was a fight that was supposed to happen, bottom line. The promoters wanted it. HBO wanted it. Damn near every person involved in the sport of boxing wanted to see that fight. One guy didn't.
Exactly who is this LARGE contingent of the boxing community??? That is the most off-the-mark statement I've read on this forum.
It was the haters\detractors who wanted to watch that fight because they BLINDLY thought that AM would beat Floyd .... PERIOD.
The same thing with Mosley & Cotto ... the haters\detractors honestly believe that one of these two have a chance of beating him. So those potential fights have to be made ... it is a matter of life & death ... someone out there has to beat Floyd.
It an obsession with these idiot so-called "LARGE contingent of the boxing community" -- Mosley can lose, Cotto can lose, AM can lose .. BUT it don't mean a thing if Floyd is still out there UNDEFEATED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People fail to realize that Mayweather-MArgarito went into early talks but they broke down beacuse of dates...
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Apr 26 2009, 11:33 AM)
People fail to realize that Mayweather-MArgarito went into early talks but they broke down beacuse of dates...
All I remember was Mayweather saying "who is Margarito?" and "if it doesn't make dollars, it doesn't make sense". I don't remember any negotiating.
Enough of this BULLLLSHEET!!!
Let Gayweather do what he wants! Let's respect him for that. Let's just put him at #10 p4p if ever he comes back. He's gonna have to work hard to be at #1 again.
Let Gayweather do what he wants! Let's respect him for that. Let's just put him at #10 p4p if ever he comes back. He's gonna have to work hard to be at #1 again.
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Apr 25 2009, 10:31 PM)
Enough of this BULLLLSHEET!!!
Agreed!!!!!!
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 25 2009, 09:30 PM)
All right let's deal with this nonsense.
If 2007 was not the year you were referring to then you shouldn't have put it in the post I responded to. {Look at what you wrote in the post I responded to {2007}} So let's look at the adjusted year 2006. Floyd fought Baldomir {Linear Champ} & Judah { Vacant IBO Belt}. AM fought Gomez & Clottey. So when exactly were these two suppose to mix it up when both had an active year?
The GOAL is to get PAID!!! I don't know what world you live in, but legacy doesn't pay the bills. Not before and certainly not in 2009. Many want to criticize Floyd for going after that paper but the name of the game is PRIZE-FIGHTING!!!!! And walking the street with legacy won't get you more than a cup of coffee on a good day.
If a fighter achieves GREATNESS while fighting for money, that's all good. But for any fighter to fight for LEGACY ONLY is both foolish and stupid. Do you want a tally of former fighters who were considered GREAT at one time that don't have a pot to piss in today?????
This is the nonsense spewed by people who DO NOT make a living in the sport of boxing. It about the money!!!! Fuck what idiot fans on boxing forums say!!! How many donations have these same fans made to any organization that supports retired boxers????
Floyd is RIGHT & CORRECT for going after that paper ... Because there is NO ONE out there in the audience or on boxing forums who will contribute one thin nickle to helping them when they're out of the sport, slurring their words.
This goes back to the point I made earlier THERE IS NOTHING THAT FLOYD HAS DONE OR IS DOING THAT OTHER FIGHTERS HAVEN'T OR AREN'T DOING AS WELL. NOT ONE THING.
The only difference is the haters\detractors only notice it when Floyd's name it attached to the act.
Exactly who is this LARGE contingent of the boxing community??? That is the most off-the-mark statement I've read on this forum.
It was the haters\detractors who wanted to watch that fight because they BLINDLY thought that AM would beat Floyd .... PERIOD.
The same thing with Mosley & Cotto ... the haters\detractors honestly believe that one of these two have a chance of beating him. So those potential fights have to be made ... it is a matter of life & death ... someone out there has to beat Floyd.
It an obsession with these idiot so-called "LARGE contingent of the boxing community" -- Mosley can lose, Cotto can lose, AM can lose .. BUT it don't mean a thing if Floyd is still out there UNDEFEATED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If 2007 was not the year you were referring to then you shouldn't have put it in the post I responded to. {Look at what you wrote in the post I responded to {2007}} So let's look at the adjusted year 2006. Floyd fought Baldomir {Linear Champ} & Judah { Vacant IBO Belt}. AM fought Gomez & Clottey. So when exactly were these two suppose to mix it up when both had an active year?
The GOAL is to get PAID!!! I don't know what world you live in, but legacy doesn't pay the bills. Not before and certainly not in 2009. Many want to criticize Floyd for going after that paper but the name of the game is PRIZE-FIGHTING!!!!! And walking the street with legacy won't get you more than a cup of coffee on a good day.
If a fighter achieves GREATNESS while fighting for money, that's all good. But for any fighter to fight for LEGACY ONLY is both foolish and stupid. Do you want a tally of former fighters who were considered GREAT at one time that don't have a pot to piss in today?????
This is the nonsense spewed by people who DO NOT make a living in the sport of boxing. It about the money!!!! Fuck what idiot fans on boxing forums say!!! How many donations have these same fans made to any organization that supports retired boxers????
Floyd is RIGHT & CORRECT for going after that paper ... Because there is NO ONE out there in the audience or on boxing forums who will contribute one thin nickle to helping them when they're out of the sport, slurring their words.
This goes back to the point I made earlier THERE IS NOTHING THAT FLOYD HAS DONE OR IS DOING THAT OTHER FIGHTERS HAVEN'T OR AREN'T DOING AS WELL. NOT ONE THING.
The only difference is the haters\detractors only notice it when Floyd's name it attached to the act.
Exactly who is this LARGE contingent of the boxing community??? That is the most off-the-mark statement I've read on this forum.
It was the haters\detractors who wanted to watch that fight because they BLINDLY thought that AM would beat Floyd .... PERIOD.
The same thing with Mosley & Cotto ... the haters\detractors honestly believe that one of these two have a chance of beating him. So those potential fights have to be made ... it is a matter of life & death ... someone out there has to beat Floyd.
It an obsession with these idiot so-called "LARGE contingent of the boxing community" -- Mosley can lose, Cotto can lose, AM can lose .. BUT it don't mean a thing if Floyd is still out there UNDEFEATED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DAYUM!!!!!!! THAT'S WHAT'S UP MY DUDE. VERY WELL SAID. I CO-SIGN!!!!!!!!
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 25 2009, 08:58 PM)
Way to sugar coat things.
Well it only takes a second to re-watch the Cotto/Corley fight and if you wanna get technical the Corley/PBF fight was an title eliminator. Gatti was the champion when they fought so was Zab and anybody who saw the Zab fight knows that was a good, exciting, dramatic fight.
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Apr 26 2009, 01:26 PM)
Gatti was the champion champion when they fought so was Zab
Haha.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 26 2009, 02:30 AM)
-- Mosley can lose, Cotto can lose, AM can lose .. BUT it don't mean a thing if Floyd is still out there UNDEFEATED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mosely lost because mosely took risks
Cotto lost because cotto took risks
AM lost because AM took risks
Floyd is undefeated because he DOESN'T take risks
Only a few want PBF to lose, I want him to fight a fucking real fucking welterweight... he's the former p4p no. 1, the linear welterweight champ... and he's lining up marquez? Jesus christ, PBF could fight a pygmy with one leg and you'd still give him a handjob afterwwods
Hey, why are people still talking about Margarito?
Margarito never deserved a shot with Mayweather, and now that Margarito has been exposed as a liar and a cheat, not only does he not deserve a shot with Mayweather, he doesn't deserve to step in the ring with ANY FIGHTER ever again.
Margarito never deserved a shot with Mayweather, and now that Margarito has been exposed as a liar and a cheat, not only does he not deserve a shot with Mayweather, he doesn't deserve to step in the ring with ANY FIGHTER ever again.
QUOTE (Imperius3 @ Apr 26 2009, 06:53 AM)
Hey, why are people still talking about Margarito?
Margarito never deserved a shot with Mayweather, and now that Margarito has been exposed as a liar and a cheat, not only does he not deserve a shot with Mayweather, he doesn't deserve to step in the ring with ANY FIGHTER ever again.
Margarito never deserved a shot with Mayweather, and now that Margarito has been exposed as a liar and a cheat, not only does he not deserve a shot with Mayweather, he doesn't deserve to step in the ring with ANY FIGHTER ever again.
So floyd had a crystal ball? He could see the future, before Margarito was exposed he was considered the danger man in the division. Floyd really is superhuman... LOL. Revisionistic hind site is no excuse. You dont even have any proof marg was cheating back then, so your argument means less than chicken mcnugget. Do you really think zab or baldomir would have beaten that version of Margarito, zab wouldve stood up to Margarito like a urine soaked newspaper, and flat footed, hunting target stapled to his forehead baldomir wouldve been KO'd
QUOTE (Imperius3 @ Apr 26 2009, 04:53 PM)
Margarito never deserved a shot with Mayweather, and now that Margarito has been exposed as a liar and a cheat, not only does he not deserve a shot with Mayweather, he doesn't deserve to step in the ring with ANY FIGHTER ever again.
Hindsight is not an excuse, so it's not to be used. Also when ever someone says Margarito didn't deserve to be in the ring with Floyd, I come back with: How were Brusseles, Mitchell, Corley, Judah and Mitchell all more deserving than Margarito? After all, I'm assuming that those guys all deserved to be in the ring?
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Apr 26 2009, 12:31 AM)
Mosely lost because mosely took risks
Cotto lost because cotto took risks
AM lost because AM took risks
Floyd is undefeated because he DOESN'T take risks
Only a few want PBF to lose, I want him to fight a fucking real fucking welterweight... he's the former p4p no. 1, the linear welterweight champ... and he's lining up marquez? Jesus christ, PBF could fight a pygmy with one leg and you'd still give him a handjob afterwwods
Cotto lost because cotto took risks
AM lost because AM took risks
Floyd is undefeated because he DOESN'T take risks
Only a few want PBF to lose, I want him to fight a fucking real fucking welterweight... he's the former p4p no. 1, the linear welterweight champ... and he's lining up marquez? Jesus christ, PBF could fight a pygmy with one leg and you'd still give him a handjob afterwwods
I like how ya put that..Mayweather doesn't need to take risks though..His skill is so high that it's the other guy he makes have to take the risks..Why take risks if you're owning the other guy??I like how Floyd lets the KO come instead of going for it..
Do I want to see him lose though??Yeah,I want him to see he is not the god he thinks he is..He needs to fix his ego..I did like seeing him giving Chad Dawson a lot of props though..
Stop this Floyd Mayweather discussion.
If he gets back, I'd put him at #10 p4p. He'd have to work hard to be at the top again. Perhaps, in doing this, the guy's ego might be touched.
If he gets back, I'd put him at #10 p4p. He'd have to work hard to be at the top again. Perhaps, in doing this, the guy's ego might be touched.
I'm not talking about hindsight, nor did I say "Margarito was caught cheating now, so that's why he didn't deserve a shot at Mayweather back then." Re-read what I posted.
Mayweather fought Corley early in 2004 when Margarito was virtually unknown. Late in 2004, Margarito lost to Santos, lowering him even more in the rankings. Early in 2005, Margarito beat Lujan and Cintron, not big names at the time (and still not now). Margarito didn't fight until about a year later against Manuel Gomez. Mayweather fought Bruseles and Gatti early in 2005 (Gatti was a big PPV event) and then he fought Mitchell late in 2005. At the time, these were reasonable opponents for Mayweather considering not much was known about Margarito and since these opponents were actually known to be solid. If I recall correctly, people weren't really even mentioning Margarito-Mayweather till about early 2006 around the time Mayweather was fighting Judah. Like 3King said above, I much preferred to see Mayweather fight Judah than Margarito because Judah was the better overall fighter and had a much better chance at beating him than Margarito did. IMO, a Margarito fight would be a replay of Mayweather-Baldomir. Judah would actually win rounds, Margarito's slow ass wouldn't.
Now, instead of fighting Baldomir, I wish Mayweather had fought Margarito. If anything just so I'd never have to hear about it again. But a DLH fight was on the horizon, and Mayweather was taking the safest route possible to secure it. Baldomir had made a name for himself though with his latest string of wins, Judah and Gatti. I also suppose by choosing to fight Baldomir, a future Mayweather-Margarito fight would've been built and hyped more, with better value. The decision to fight Baldomir was reasonable and smart, but yes I would've preferred a fight with Margarito. What's kind of funny, is I remember some people complaining that Mayweather was going to duck Baldomir, but once the fight was signed, they went back to the Margarito claim. it's funny how biased people can be. I also think a Margarito-Baldomir fight would be competitive (I would've favored Margarito by decision) since they both have strong chins with roughly the same amount of skill (Baldomir might be a little craftier).
My view has always been that Mayweather did not "duck" Margarito, he just ignored and disregarded him. It sucks because I would've liked the fight to happen just to shut everyone up, but seeing how biased and irrational some people are, there would always be another fighter to fight. What's done is done though. This issue is old, let's forget about the past and look into the future. Bouts with Marquez, Pacquiao, and Mosley would be beyond great. These opponents are much better than Margarito, and they will provide much more competitive fights. Let's move on.
Mayweather fought Corley early in 2004 when Margarito was virtually unknown. Late in 2004, Margarito lost to Santos, lowering him even more in the rankings. Early in 2005, Margarito beat Lujan and Cintron, not big names at the time (and still not now). Margarito didn't fight until about a year later against Manuel Gomez. Mayweather fought Bruseles and Gatti early in 2005 (Gatti was a big PPV event) and then he fought Mitchell late in 2005. At the time, these were reasonable opponents for Mayweather considering not much was known about Margarito and since these opponents were actually known to be solid. If I recall correctly, people weren't really even mentioning Margarito-Mayweather till about early 2006 around the time Mayweather was fighting Judah. Like 3King said above, I much preferred to see Mayweather fight Judah than Margarito because Judah was the better overall fighter and had a much better chance at beating him than Margarito did. IMO, a Margarito fight would be a replay of Mayweather-Baldomir. Judah would actually win rounds, Margarito's slow ass wouldn't.
Now, instead of fighting Baldomir, I wish Mayweather had fought Margarito. If anything just so I'd never have to hear about it again. But a DLH fight was on the horizon, and Mayweather was taking the safest route possible to secure it. Baldomir had made a name for himself though with his latest string of wins, Judah and Gatti. I also suppose by choosing to fight Baldomir, a future Mayweather-Margarito fight would've been built and hyped more, with better value. The decision to fight Baldomir was reasonable and smart, but yes I would've preferred a fight with Margarito. What's kind of funny, is I remember some people complaining that Mayweather was going to duck Baldomir, but once the fight was signed, they went back to the Margarito claim. it's funny how biased people can be. I also think a Margarito-Baldomir fight would be competitive (I would've favored Margarito by decision) since they both have strong chins with roughly the same amount of skill (Baldomir might be a little craftier).
My view has always been that Mayweather did not "duck" Margarito, he just ignored and disregarded him. It sucks because I would've liked the fight to happen just to shut everyone up, but seeing how biased and irrational some people are, there would always be another fighter to fight. What's done is done though. This issue is old, let's forget about the past and look into the future. Bouts with Marquez, Pacquiao, and Mosley would be beyond great. These opponents are much better than Margarito, and they will provide much more competitive fights. Let's move on.
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 26 2009, 03:33 AM)
Hindsight is not an excuse, so it's not to be used. Also when ever someone says Margarito didn't deserve to be in the ring with Floyd, I come back with: How were Brusseles, Mitchell, Corley, Judah and Mitchell all more deserving than Margarito? After all, I'm assuming that those guys all deserved to be in the ring?
this pretty much sums up my feelings on money may.
QUOTE (Imperius3 @ Apr 26 2009, 04:24 AM)
I'm not talking about hindsight, nor did I say "Margarito was caught cheating now, so that's why he didn't deserve a shot at Mayweather back then." Re-read what I posted.
Mayweather fought Corley early in 2004 when Margarito was virtually unknown. Late in 2004, Margarito lost to Santos, lowering him even more in the rankings. Early in 2005, Margarito beat Lujan and Cintron, not big names at the time (and still not now). Margarito didn't fight until about a year later against Manuel Gomez. Mayweather fought Bruseles and Gatti early in 2005 (Gatti was a big PPV event) and then he fought Mitchell late in 2005. At the time, these were reasonable opponents for Mayweather considering not much was known about Margarito and since these opponents were actually known to be solid. If I recall correctly, people weren't really even mentioning Margarito-Mayweather till about early 2006 around the time Mayweather was fighting Judah. Like 3King said above, I much preferred to see Mayweather fight Judah than Margarito because Judah was the better overall fighter and had a much better chance at beating him than Margarito did. IMO, a Margarito fight would be a replay of Mayweather-Baldomir. Judah would actually win rounds, Margarito's slow ass wouldn't.
Now, instead of fighting Baldomir, I wish Mayweather had fought Margarito. If anything just so I'd never have to hear about it again. But a DLH fight was on the horizon, and Mayweather was taking the safest route possible to secure it. Baldomir had made a name for himself though with his latest string of wins, Judah and Gatti. I also suppose by choosing to fight Baldomir, a future Mayweather-Margarito fight would've been built and hyped more, with better value. The decision to fight Baldomir was reasonable and smart, but yes I would've preferred a fight with Margarito. What's kind of funny, is I remember some people complaining that Mayweather was going to duck Baldomir, but once the fight was signed, they went back to the Margarito claim. it's funny how biased people can be. I also think a Margarito-Baldomir fight would be competitive (I would've favored Margarito by decision) since they both have strong chins with roughly the same amount of skill (Baldomir might be a little craftier).
My view has always been that Mayweather did not "duck" Margarito, he just ignored and disregarded him. It sucks because I would've liked the fight to happen just to shut everyone up, but seeing how biased and irrational some people are, there would always be another fighter to fight. What's done is done though. This issue is old, let's forget about the past and look into the future. Bouts with Marquez, Pacquiao, and Mosley would be beyond great. These opponents are much better than Margarito, and they will provide much more competitive fights. Let's move on.
Mayweather fought Corley early in 2004 when Margarito was virtually unknown. Late in 2004, Margarito lost to Santos, lowering him even more in the rankings. Early in 2005, Margarito beat Lujan and Cintron, not big names at the time (and still not now). Margarito didn't fight until about a year later against Manuel Gomez. Mayweather fought Bruseles and Gatti early in 2005 (Gatti was a big PPV event) and then he fought Mitchell late in 2005. At the time, these were reasonable opponents for Mayweather considering not much was known about Margarito and since these opponents were actually known to be solid. If I recall correctly, people weren't really even mentioning Margarito-Mayweather till about early 2006 around the time Mayweather was fighting Judah. Like 3King said above, I much preferred to see Mayweather fight Judah than Margarito because Judah was the better overall fighter and had a much better chance at beating him than Margarito did. IMO, a Margarito fight would be a replay of Mayweather-Baldomir. Judah would actually win rounds, Margarito's slow ass wouldn't.
Now, instead of fighting Baldomir, I wish Mayweather had fought Margarito. If anything just so I'd never have to hear about it again. But a DLH fight was on the horizon, and Mayweather was taking the safest route possible to secure it. Baldomir had made a name for himself though with his latest string of wins, Judah and Gatti. I also suppose by choosing to fight Baldomir, a future Mayweather-Margarito fight would've been built and hyped more, with better value. The decision to fight Baldomir was reasonable and smart, but yes I would've preferred a fight with Margarito. What's kind of funny, is I remember some people complaining that Mayweather was going to duck Baldomir, but once the fight was signed, they went back to the Margarito claim. it's funny how biased people can be. I also think a Margarito-Baldomir fight would be competitive (I would've favored Margarito by decision) since they both have strong chins with roughly the same amount of skill (Baldomir might be a little craftier).
My view has always been that Mayweather did not "duck" Margarito, he just ignored and disregarded him. It sucks because I would've liked the fight to happen just to shut everyone up, but seeing how biased and irrational some people are, there would always be another fighter to fight. What's done is done though. This issue is old, let's forget about the past and look into the future. Bouts with Marquez, Pacquiao, and Mosley would be beyond great. These opponents are much better than Margarito, and they will provide much more competitive fights. Let's move on.
I totally agree. Margarito was on the sideline calling Mayweather out. He never did anything to demand a fight besides run his mouth. If he would've taken a page from the past he wouldnt have sat on his WBO title he would have beat someone besides Kermit and made his case that way. Why would anyone be still talking about Margarito any way isn't he a completely dead issue? Does anyone think Margarito had a chance against PBF? With Marquez, Pacquiao and Mosley on the horizon haters are pissed at the thought of PBF retiring undefeated which is funny on one had but sad on the other.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 25 2009, 08:30 PM)
If 2007 was not the year you were referring to then you shouldn't have put it in the post I responded to. {Look at what you wrote in the post I responded to {2007}} So let's look at the adjusted year 2006. Floyd fought Baldomir {Linear Champ} & Judah { Vacant IBO Belt}. AM fought Gomez & Clottey. So when exactly were these two suppose to mix it up when both had an active year?
My fault getting those years mixed up, but as for 2006 - when were they supposed to mix it up? How about at the end of the year, INSTEAD OF Mayweather fighting Baldomir and Margarito fighting Clottey! Those fights didn't prevent PBF-Marg from happening and you know it. They happened because PBF-Marg wasn't.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 25 2009, 08:30 PM)
The GOAL is to get PAID!!! I don't know what world you live in, but legacy doesn't pay the bills. Not before and certainly not in 2009. Many want to criticize Floyd for going after that paper but the name of the game is PRIZE-FIGHTING!!!!! And walking the street with legacy won't get you more than a cup of coffee on a good day.
If a fighter achieves GREATNESS while fighting for money, that's all good. But for any fighter to fight for LEGACY ONLY is both foolish and stupid. Do you want a tally of former fighters who were considered GREAT at one time that don't have a pot to piss in today?????
This is the nonsense spewed by people who DO NOT make a living in the sport of boxing. It about the money!!!! Fuck what idiot fans on boxing forums say!!! How many donations have these same fans made to any organization that supports retired boxers????
Floyd is RIGHT & CORRECT for going after that paper ... Because there is NO ONE out there in the audience or on boxing forums who will contribute one thin nickle to helping them when they're out of the sport, slurring their words.
If a fighter achieves GREATNESS while fighting for money, that's all good. But for any fighter to fight for LEGACY ONLY is both foolish and stupid. Do you want a tally of former fighters who were considered GREAT at one time that don't have a pot to piss in today?????
This is the nonsense spewed by people who DO NOT make a living in the sport of boxing. It about the money!!!! Fuck what idiot fans on boxing forums say!!! How many donations have these same fans made to any organization that supports retired boxers????
Floyd is RIGHT & CORRECT for going after that paper ... Because there is NO ONE out there in the audience or on boxing forums who will contribute one thin nickle to helping them when they're out of the sport, slurring their words.
Other fighters manage to get paid while also fighting the best and most deserving challengers. Is Shane Mosley fighting for free? No he's getting PAID. But he also wants to fight the best. You act like Floyd can't get paid unless he fights weak opposition.
Funny, until PBF came around there was never this problem of having to choose between fighting the best fighters and getting paid. SRL didn't seem to have this problem. ODLH didn't seem to have this problem. Weird about Floyd, huh?
I'm not interested in rooting for a guy who doesn't give a shit about his product. I'm not interested in cheering someone on who ONLY wants to make money without another thought in the world. I don't go stand outside investment banks and applaud the CEO's as they walk in and out. These are not the men I want to support and defend.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 25 2009, 08:30 PM)
This goes back to the point I made earlier THERE IS NOTHING THAT FLOYD HAS DONE OR IS DOING THAT OTHER FIGHTERS HAVEN'T OR AREN'T DOING AS WELL. NOT ONE THING.
The only difference is the haters\detractors only notice it when Floyd's name it attached to the act.
The only difference is the haters\detractors only notice it when Floyd's name it attached to the act.
No other top fighter has avoided his biggest challenges the way Floyd has. If another fighter did I assure you he would be called out for it the same way. This has nothing to do with haters or detractors, it has to do with a great fighter ripping off the boxing public.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 25 2009, 08:30 PM)
Exactly who is this LARGE contingent of the boxing community??? That is the most off-the-mark statement I've read on this forum.
If you're now denying that there was ever a public mandate for the Mayweather-Margarito fight I don't know what to tell you other than you're dead wrong and there's no need to even discuss this any further.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 25 2009, 08:30 PM)
It was the haters\detractors who wanted to watch that fight because they BLINDLY thought that AM would beat Floyd .... PERIOD.
Nope. It was people who wanted to see the welterweight champ defend against his most deserving challenger. Shame on us.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 25 2009, 08:30 PM)
The same thing with Mosley & Cotto ... the haters\detractors honestly believe that one of these two have a chance of beating him. So those potential fights have to be made ... it is a matter of life & death ... someone out there has to beat Floyd.
It is the same thing with Mosley and Cotto, but it's not about wanting to see Floyd lose. It's about wanting to see him take on his toughest challenges. If he beats them, he gets props. No backtracking. No 'what about this guy what about that guy?' bullshit. The best are supposed to fight the best, win or lose. If the best refuse, they ain't shit.
QUOTE (dbdbdb @ Apr 25 2009, 08:30 PM)
It an obsession with these idiot so-called "LARGE contingent of the boxing community" -- Mosley can lose, Cotto can lose, AM can lose .. BUT it don't mean a thing if Floyd is still out there UNDEFEATED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess this sums up perfectly why we'll never see eye to eye on the subject. You, like Mayweather, believe it's all about keeping that precious 0 at the expense of acting like a man. I and many others think that 0 becomes more and more farcical the more the guy carrying it behaves like a little bitch.
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