QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ May 23 2009, 12:11 AM)
Again, poor logic and bad argument. You are parading him around as a leader for social change, I am just pointing out that he certainly was not. It does not matter what my personal opinions on any of that shit is. Get your shit straight.
How are you pointing out he is not a social leader? All you've done is said, "So what he read those books, college kids read those books." Well so do leaders for social change. In fact it's almost necessary that social leaders do, so the fact that college kids read them too is irrelevant. It would had been a stronger argument if he had NOT read those books. Then you point out he was not an agent for social change because he objectified women in music, yet MLK was a huge womanizer, and Gandhi used to beat women. I don't agree with that but it doesn't change what they accomplished. Social leaders do not have to be God-like.
Pac had multiple opinions when it came to women. The type of women he addressed in "I Get Around" (The song you posted) and strong women he describes in "Keep Ya Head Up" (The song I posted). The reason I bring up the forum's view on women, and possibly yours, is because the way ya'll talk about women sometimes, you can't say you can't relate to where he's coming from, therefore, it would be unfair to call him contradictory if ya'll share similar views. Hell, why would you share views about women that are against, in your definition, a social leader anyway?
The whole debate started because people were reducing Tupac as a common street rapper thug when in reality, that judgment is based off not knowing anything about him. All of the points I brought up (his library of text, T.H.U.G.L.I.F.E, the fact that his mother was a Black Panther and named him after a Peruvian revolutionary, his lyrics), NOBODY, including you, has addressed those points. Mainstream rappers like Ja Rule, 50 Cent, and all that other bullshit do not have that kind of background and all I'm saying is you can't bunch him with the rest of him. There are valid reasons as to why people thought he was a potential revolutionary leader.
You wonder why whole communities held candle light vigils upon his death, why PhD Professors write poems, books and teach classes on him, why an entire generation respects his work. It must because they're all misinformed right? They're the ones that got shit fucked up, not you, who didn't know ANY of the information I pointed out in this thread, and even so, THEY'RE the ones misinterpreting it? Not you right? Gimmie a fucking break bro.
I'm a firm believer in respecting people's opinion, so I'm not trying to convince you to believe as I do. He's not a social leader to you, fine. But at least understand and RESPECT the opinions of those that do for the reasons mentioned.