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du365
Here is what Leon said about Taylor:

Leon's Response: I'll say here what everybody else has been saying behind Jermain Taylor's and Lou DiBella's back.Jermain Taylor is done. He's made a ton of money, and he's been knocked out twice in his last four fights. Who really cares about seeing him fight a stooge to get knocked out again the next time he faces somebody with a pulse, capable of taking advantage of his De La Hoyaesque ability to finish, or not finish fights? Something tells me we'll see Jermain face a very weak contender before losing to Froch or somebody else again.

Well he is an adviser, is he right?
thehype
G. Leon also said that Mayorga was going to stop De La Hoya...

He also said Pacquiao vs. De La Hoya would NEVER happen...

G. Leon says a lot of things that are pretty far out there...the important thing is to understand WHY he's saying it and in this particular case, he's saying it simply because he advises a fighter (Allan Green) who's in the exact same division and promoted by the exact same promoter. G. Leon is saying what he feels he needs to say to up the stock of his own fighter.

So is Taylor done? I wouldn't say that...Taylor is what he is...a fighter who's still green and unable to take advantage of certain situations simply because he rushed into fights with guys who he wasn't ready to fight yet. If Taylor is "done" as Leon claims, then what does that say about Jeff Lacy, who's penciled in as the next opponent for Roy Jones...hell...what does that say about Roy Jones for that matter, who needed to face an even weaker non-contender in Omar Shieka just to get his swagger back?

The irony is that as "done" as Taylor is, Leon would LOVE to let his fighter be that very weak contender that Taylor faces next. Speaking of his fighter, I don't know if I'd be as proud as he and the rest of Green's team are about a win over Carlos De Leon Jr.

Pfffft.

I'll take Taylor over Green by stoppage!

The real question though is why the hell are you even paying attention to anything that Leon says? I'll already told you all that he writes fake interviews...what makes you think he wouldn't just say any other bullshit off the top of his head?

laugh.gif
Mean Mister Mustard
I don't think he should stop fighting. So he didn't live up to his expectations. So what? Tons of fighters never do, that's why those guys are special. If Taylor is Ko'd in his next fight against some guy like Manny Siaca then yeah he should retire. But he can still beat a lot of guys or at least be competitive with the best of the division.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Apr 28 2009, 10:04 PM) *
I don't think he should stop fighting. So he didn't live up to his expectations. So what? Tons of fighters never do, that's why those guys are special. If Taylor is Ko'd in his next fight against some guy like Manny Siaca then yeah he should retire. But he can still beat a lot of guys or at least be competitive with the best of the division.

Agreed..Tyrell Biggs didn't live up to his expectations after winning the olympics..Sometimes when guys have too much pressure on them to be the next big guy like the gold medal olympians,they break down..
neophyte7
TAYLOR NEVER BEAT HOPKINS-- deep down in his heart he knows he lost the first time and struggled for gift the second time-- his confidence was never the same after being given Hopkins Taylor I-- he probably remembers when he turned to the ref for help several times during that bout when hop was clocking him in the late rounds-- Honestly Taylor has panned out exactly like I thought after facing Hopkins--- he has zero confidence despite being a fast starter and still has not learned how to relax in the ring-- he is beyond 30 and is along the lines of a Zab Judah in the ring--- he should STEP OFF -
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Apr 28 2009, 11:04 PM) *
I don't think he should stop fighting. So he didn't live up to his expectations. So what? Tons of fighters never do, that's why those guys are special. If Taylor is Ko'd in his next fight against some guy like Manny Siaca then yeah he should retire. But he can still beat a lot of guys or at least be competitive with the best of the division.


Agree. JT needs an easy fight next for sure, his confidence is at an all time low right now. This is now the second time he got KO'd badly, it is going to be hard to rebound from this. He needs to change his habits, trainer, and mentality if he wants to improve.
thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 28 2009, 10:48 PM) *
I agree with most of your post hype, but I wouldn't say Taylor is still 'green'. To me he is who he is, just didn't live up.


Maybe green isn't the exact word as he's certainly not green in experience, but he's green as far as skills are concerned. He still lacks a lot of fundamentals that he SHOULD have picked up if he wasn't rushed into fights with guys that he wasn't ready for. His jab is gone, he still doesn't know how to clinch effectively, he doesn't work the body enough, he wastes a lot of energy on big punches that are missing or blocked (not to mention the energy he wastes every time he taps himself on the forehead with that herky-jerk movement that he does)...those are things that he should have worked on had his career been managed properly. If he fought a few more veterans like Joppy, he could have learned how to hone some of those skills...instead, he was forced to try and work on those skills against the likes of Hopkins, Wright, Ouma, Spinks and Pavlik...he can't work on those skills when he's too busy trying to survive. And I think that's part of his problem...he's so used to surviving and conserving energy that he just automatically shuts it down midway through a fight.

Just to put it in perspective, Pavlik started his career 6 months BEFORE Jermain Taylor. By the time he was 24-0 (in March, 2005), he was taking on the likes of Dorian Beaupierre, Fulgencio Zuniga, Bronco McKart, Jose Luis Zertuch and Edison Miranda before getting his first crack at a title. Despite still being a basic fighter, Pavlik had a lot more time to learn a lot of the fundamentals that Taylor still struggles with. Taylor, who again started his career 6 months AFTER Pavlik, was facing Bernard Hopkins by the time he was 24-0 (in July, 2005...roughly the same timeframe as Pavlik). He had only really been "tested" against the likes of Daniel Edouard, William Joppy, Raul Marquez and Alex Bunema...and honestly, those weren't even tests...just punching bags who folded under the "sheer energy" (as Lampley would call it) of Taylor. After facing competition like that, they actually thought he was freakin' ready for Bernard Hopkins...and the reality is, he wasn't. And since that fight, Taylor's never really had an opportunity to fix his flaws because it was too late to put him in with softer competition. Instead of finding weaker opponents, they just found him smaller opponents, who were still skilled enough to cause him severe problems and put serious doubt into his head. I guarantee if Pavlik was 24-0, as opposed to being 35-0, the first time he fought Hopkins, then he probably wouldn't have attained the level he's currently at...especially if he had to fight Hopkins again, followed by Wright, Ouma and Spinks.

Personally, I think Leon's TOTALLY wrong on this one. If Taylor was truly done as a fighter, I'd expect him to look like Sam Peter just did in his last fight...a guy who was unwilling to try and win the fight. You can tell Peter has totally checked out of boxing. Taylor, on the other hand, was definitely trying to win that fight...in fact, 2 of the judges thought he WAS winning. I still think there's a lot of guys that Taylor can beat, including Allan Green, Edison Miranda, Andre Ward, Jean Pascal, Jesse Brinkley and several others. I think as a fighter, Taylor just suffers from mental toughness and lacks some fundamentals...a problem that can be remedied if he got with the right trainer. As odd as it sounds, I think Taylor could actually do himself a huge favor if he made the move to the West coast and enlisted the services of Freddie Roach, who's pretty good at teaching the fundamentals and would probably have the right personality to help Taylor get over that mental hump (I also think Michael Moorer would help out extremely in that area). Two stoppage losses does not mean the end of the world for a fighter...at least it certainly didn't mean the end of the world for Roy Jones Jr. (who, ironically, you don't here Leon saying is "done"). Now if he were getting pounded and knocked out cold, that's a totally different story.
thehype
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Apr 28 2009, 11:10 PM) *
he is beyond 30 and is along the lines of a Zab Judah in the ring--- he should STEP OFF -


Zab Judah is more done than Taylor is.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (thehype @ Apr 28 2009, 10:41 PM) *
Zab Judah is more done than Taylor is.

Way more done!!
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
I don't think Taylor is done as a fighter, but done as a top contender. I'm sure he'll fight a couple tune up bouts, and get another shots against the likes of Bute, Andrade, Froch, or hell even Kessler. I still think they should push for a match against Roy Jones Jr., since I do think he could beat him at this stage. I would also keep him away from Allan Green. Green is a good boxer, who has good power. Green has a jab, speed, and power, all things Taylor doesn't need to see at this point. I see them trying to get him in with a fighter like Joey Gilbert. That'd be a safe match back, and would get him some attention. Then, maybe focus on a Green or Brinkley. If he gets past that, then try and match him up with Froch in a rematch, or Librado Andrade. I think both would stop him late.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (thehype @ Apr 29 2009, 03:32 AM) *
The real question though is why the hell are you even paying attention to anything that Leon says? I'll already told you all that he writes fake interviews...what makes you think he wouldn't just say any other bullshit off the top of his head?


Exactly
salvador
I really don't think Taylor's heart has been in it since the second Hopkins fight.

With the exceptions of a couple of moments (the first 2 rounds of the first Pavlik fight being the most obvious), Taylor just hasn't looked like he particularly wants to be fighting. There's not enough anger in him.
Spyder
His killer instinct is done, but I don't think that he's done as a fighter.

I think that Roach and Moorer would be good for him...although Roach couldn't get James Toney motivated. Maybe Floyd Sr would be a better fit. He could get Jermain fired up, and fine tune his technique as well.

Although I doubt that he'll ever leave Ozell Nelson...
Douchebag
Jermain Taylor's biggest problem is Jermain Taylor.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (thehype @ Apr 28 2009, 10:39 PM) *
I still think there's a lot of guys that Taylor can beat, including Allan Green, Edison Miranda, Andre Ward, Jean Pascal, Jesse Brinkley and several others.

Ward beats Taylor. No doubt about it...


QUOTE (thehype @ Apr 28 2009, 10:39 PM) *
Two stoppage losses does not mean the end of the world for a fighter...at least it certainly didn't mean the end of the world for Roy Jones Jr. (who, ironically, you don't here Leon saying is "done").

You don't hear Leon saying Jones is done because, IMO, it goes without saying.

Jones is DONE....
blackbelt2003
LMAO, how can Jermain Taylor be done?

He just came 15 seconds from winning a world title...if that is being done, then 99.9% of the world's professionals should retire.


This isn't Ray Robinson losing to a 10 round novice 15 years after his world title days. This is a guy in the prime of his life struggling to regain the form he had just a couple years ago when he was world champion. Give me a break.


If you bumped into a journeyman who was as good as Taylor, you'd be telling him to reach for the top. Because it's Taylor, he's 'done'.




Black
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (blackbelt2003 @ Apr 29 2009, 11:15 AM) *
LMAO, how can Jermain Taylor be done?

He just came 15 seconds from winning a world title...if that is being done, then 99.9% of the world's professionals should retire.


This isn't Ray Robinson losing to a 10 round novice 15 years after his world title days. This is a guy in the prime of his life struggling to regain the form he had just a couple years ago when he was world champion. Give me a break.


If you bumped into a journeyman who was as good as Taylor, you'd be telling him to reach for the top. Because it's Taylor, he's 'done'.




Black

Exactly..

His situation reminded me of a basketball game..A team could be winning the whole game and then the other team comes back in the last minute and beats them(with a buzzer beater)..It's a very disappointing loss but you can come back from it..Taylor should rest up for a few months than try to get back in there around September..Taylor still has a chance to correct his stamina problem..
thehype
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Apr 29 2009, 12:11 PM) *
Ward beats Taylor. No doubt about it...


I doubt it...I'm not so sure Ward could even take some of the punches that Taylor landed on Froch.

QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Apr 29 2009, 12:11 PM) *
You don't hear Leon saying Jones is done because, IMO, it goes without saying.


No...you don't hear him saying it because it wouldn't serve a purpose for him to say it. When Jones lost to Calzaghe, there was no talk from him about Jones being done and blah, blah, blah...instead, what you got was a nice little locked interview from Jones talking some ridiculous shit about moving up to heavyweight

QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Apr 29 2009, 12:11 PM) *
Jones is DONE....


Agreed...and in my opinion, he's more done than Jermain Taylor.
thehype
QUOTE (Spyder @ Apr 29 2009, 10:21 AM) *
Maybe Floyd Sr would be a better fit. He could get Jermain fired up, and fine tune his technique as well.

Although I doubt that he'll ever leave Ozell Nelson...


Floyd Sr. is a HORRIBLE fit.

Floyd Sr. is not the type of guy you need to work with if you're having confidence issues.

laugh.gif

I think Roach is a much better fit...he has a history of getting fighters back to the basics and doing what they do best (i.e. even Tyson looked like the Tyson of old with Freddie before he blew his knee out against Williams). Roach and Moorer are a lot "friendlier" (for lack of a better term...basically a lot less harsher on fighters) than a no-nonsense guy like Big Floyd and I think they could help Taylor build up his confidence in his own abilities.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (thehype @ Apr 29 2009, 03:32 PM) *
I doubt it...I'm not so sure Ward could even take some of the punches that Taylor landed on Froch.

I doubt that Ward would stand right in front of Taylor and get hit repeatedly by the punches Froch got hit with.

How about a nice little sig bet if/when this fight gets made?


QUOTE (thehype @ Apr 29 2009, 03:32 PM) *
No...you don't hear him saying it because it wouldn't serve a purpose for him to say it. When Jones lost to Calzaghe, there was no talk from him about Jones being done and blah, blah, blah...instead, what you got was a nice little locked interview from Jones talking some ridiculous shit about moving up to heavyweight

Agreed...and in my opinion, he's more done than Jermain Taylor.

No argument here.

salvador
QUOTE (thehype @ Apr 29 2009, 03:41 PM) *
Floyd Sr. is a HORRIBLE fit.

Floyd Sr. is not the type of guy you need to work with if you're having confidence issues.


I'm sure that confidence has something to do with Taylor's decline, but I really think Taylor's lack of desire is the key problem.

As crazy as it might sound, Taylor could do a lot worse than Ann Wolfe.
Method
QUOTE (du365 @ Apr 28 2009, 10:15 PM) *
Here is what Leon said about Taylor:

Leon's Response: I'll say here what everybody else has been saying behind Jermain Taylor's and Lou DiBella's back.Jermain Taylor is done. He's made a ton of money, and he's been knocked out twice in his last four fights. Who really cares about seeing him fight a stooge to get knocked out again the next time he faces somebody with a pulse, capable of taking advantage of his De La Hoyaesque ability to finish, or not finish fights? Something tells me we'll see Jermain face a very weak contender before losing to Froch or somebody else again.

Well he is an adviser, is he right?


He's not Taylor's advisor. I said Taylor was done immediately after the fight, and basically say it for the same reason - who cares about seeing him fight a tune-up type just to get beat by a title holder. Distinctly contradicting my last statement, I do think Jermain has it in him to beat Froch (hell, I had him up convincingly in the first go-round), I dont really think all that much of Froch.

I would be careful about saying that shit when Lou DiBella is around. Lou would probably take exception to that stuff being said on the site.
JLUVBABY
is jermain done as a fighter... no he is not... no fighter is actually done.. he can fight on but i see his career going in the same light as a mathew saad muhamed.. he can no longer take a punch... i hate to see it happen to him like this but the writing was all over the wall after his fights with hopkins.. i thought he won the second one and lost the first one... or was it the other way around i forget but i had them one and one... you have to ask though how much of that was hopkins being an aged fighter at that time.. i dont see him beating the beast that hopkins was of the mid 90's... hopkins dont get enough respect for the body of work he put in early as middleweight champ.... it was very solid... he changed his style to prolong his career and in his case it worked... anyways.. jermain will more than likely lose to any true contender he fights.. i see a guy like allen green beating him... he can beat a guy like miranda as long as miranda dont connect on him correctly... it would probably be wise for him to hang them up but i am sure we will see him going down in another highlight reel....lol...
Spyder
QUOTE (thehype @ Apr 29 2009, 04:41 PM) *
Floyd Sr. is a HORRIBLE fit.

Floyd Sr. is not the type of guy you need to work with if you're having confidence issues.

laugh.gif

I think Roach is a much better fit...he has a history of getting fighters back to the basics and doing what they do best (i.e. even Tyson looked like the Tyson of old with Freddie before he blew his knee out against Williams). Roach and Moorer are a lot "friendlier" (for lack of a better term...basically a lot less harsher on fighters) than a no-nonsense guy like Big Floyd and I think they could help Taylor build up his confidence in his own abilities.

Jermain doesn't have Michael Grant-esque confidence issues...he just lost the fire that he had against guys like Joppy, Edouard, and even Hopkins.

Big Floyd is the type of guy that will kick your ass into being tough. If you aren't giving 100%...he'll f*ck you up! That's EXACTLY what Jermain needs...he doesn't need someone in the gym trying not to hurt his feelings. Naw, he needs a big Mayweather boot up his ass!

laugh.gif

JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 29 2009, 07:25 PM) *
I think he may have lost his hunger, which I think means they should no longer fight, but with that said I think a big part of it is he just didn't flower like he was supposed to. I still haven't watch the Taylor-Froch fight though, so I will have to see how Taylor looks. Have it on my hard drive, just haven't watched it yet.
Though he does seem like he has no where to go. Probably struggle making 160 and will get beat by other top guys at 168.
When people say he shouldn't retire I can see where they are coming from as he can still beat some B grade fighters, but from Taylors perspective, it's a hard pill to swallow when you are supposed to be a new face in boxing, a guy that will carry the sport for the next few years, an A level guy and them be reduced to nothing more than a B level guy.
If he started off as a B level guy fair enough, but with those expectations it may be a bit hard to stick a round and it will be hard for him. He will be Jermain Taylor, the guy that didn't live up, rather than being taken for what he is like a B level guy like Miranda who don't have expectations and there isn't a huge deal being made out when he does lose to a top guy.


i always said he was rushed too fast... aka david reid and fernando vargas and the list goes on for former olympians that where rushed too fast... they make it to green but not longevity... most of them fizzle out quick... or is put in with lions too early...
Spyder
To be fair to David Reid...the man had one eye and a limited amount of time to get it done. I'm not mad at his people for cashing in as quickly as possible.

Vargas could've used a few more fights before Tito...that is for sure!
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