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D-MARV
Bernard Hopkins - 56(32)-5-1

Highlights:
One of the greatest middleweights of all time
- 20 defenses of the Middleweight crown
- Oldest Middleweight champion of all time
- Title holder in two weight classes


Notable wins: Felix Trinidad, Kelly Pavlik, Winky Wright, Antonio Tarver, Oscar De Hoya


Floyd Mayweather Jr - 39(25)-0

Highlights:
-6 time champ in 5 different weight classes
-Bronze medalist in 1996 olympic games


Notable wins: Diego Corrales, Jose Luis Castillo (2x), Zab Judah, Ricky Hatton, Oscar De La Hoya
Box in Hand
In my humble opinion, Hopkins has the better resume. He hasn't ducked anyone which is proven by his 20 consecutive defense. You can't do that by ducking and dodging. He moved up in class and did something even Sugar Ray Robinson couldn't do by moving from Middleweight to Light Heavyweight and capturing the title. Then he goes on to be the current Middleweight champion who knocked out the man that took his title (Jermaine Taylor) even though no one gave him a chance. Floyd does has some impressive wins and the better defense if you ask me but he hasn't taken on all comers as we would like him to.
thehype
Hopkins!
JD
Hopkins.

I don't think it's all that tough of a choice either.
BigG
Hopkins.
Keith
hopkins. hands down. he has never ducked anyone. win or lose he has fought absolutely everyone... and most of the time he won. 20 straight title defenses is ridiculous. mayweather is too busy ducking the best fighters to string together 5 defenses.
Mean Mister Mustard
It is a close one. Let's not forget Mayweather established himself as a special fighter by beating Genaro Hernandez, only 2 years after turning pro. Then he dismantled Manfredy, Corrales and so on. He started his pro career with a bang establishing himself early while Hopkins toiled in relative obscurity fighting for 50 to a 100 grand per championship fight. It wasn't until 2001 when he was 36 that Hopkins began doing his most important work.

At this point though Hopkins has the edge which he has because of the fighters he has beat but also the novelty that most of the guys he beat were so much younger than he was. Mayweather still is only 31 and provided he gets back to doing what he started in 2002, when he used to fight dangerous contenders, I think he could top Hopkins.
Nay_Sayer
You guys are not seeing reality.

Floyd has the better resume, easily.

Sure, Hopkins moved up all of 2 weight classes and has those 20 defenses in what was a weak division.

Floyd, OTOH, has campaigned in all of 5 different weight classes and won titles in them all.

Floyd moved up in weight to beat HOF competition.

Hopkins has not fought any HOF competition above 160 lbs except for Wright, who had to move up from 160 to face Hopkins @ LHW.

The HOF fighters Hopkins fought @ 160lbs were either moving up in weight or beat him.
Romulus9
I say let them fight in November and settle it.

I pick Hopkins.
1zz
Hopkins does.
PR316
B-Hop for sure. Floyd hasn't fought anyone as good as a prime Trinidad.


Floyd's resume isn't bad at all as a few like to make it out to be but Hopkins has pretty much fought everybody...


Jones
Calzaghe
Trinidad
Wright
De La Hoya
Tarver
Pavlik
Taylor


He may end up fighting Dawson, Adamek, or possibly David Haye if Haye beats Klitschko. We'll see.
D-MARV
I see this as a toss up... VERY CLOSE!

I think the Corrales win is just as good as the Trinidad win. BUt oh well, Both men have a good argument.


For everyone who gives Hopkins credit for Pavlik and Wright, I hope you guys give Mayweather credit for Marquez, if he wins.





AND... If Mayweather does indeed fight and beat Pacquiao then I don't think it's a question of who has the better resume.
Sugar Q
Gotta lean towards BHop right now cause win or lose he's fought some great fighters but fights with Marquez, Mosley, Pacquiao,etc would change that.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ May 15 2009, 11:20 AM) *
I see this as a toss up... VERY CLOSE!

I think the Corrales win is just as good as the Trinidad win. BUt oh well, Both men have a good argument.


For everyone who gives Hopkins credit for Pavlik and Wright, I hope you guys give Mayweather credit for Marquez, if he wins.

AND... If Mayweather does indeed fight and beat Pacquiao then I don't think it's a question of who has the better resume.

Agreed with that..Corrales was the moster just like Trinidad was the monster at 160..
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 15 2009, 12:40 PM) *
Agreed with that..Corrales was the moster just like Trinidad was the monster at 160..

Trinidad was monster a @ 147 and 154. At 160, I don't know...
Lil-lightsout
It is very close IMO, I would slightly favor Hopkins for having more fights and MAYBE a little overall tougher opposition. But you should also remember that PBF is still undefeated(it has got to mean something, right?), where Hops has official losses against Calzaghe, JT 2 times, Jones Jr., and his pro debut, plus a draw with Mercado. So maybe that should be taking into consideration? I am not knocking Hopkins at all, just saying he does have some losses where Floyd has beating everyone up till this point. Either way you look at it, both fighters make a case for who has the better resume.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ May 15 2009, 12:20 PM) *
I see this as a toss up... VERY CLOSE!

I think the Corrales win is just as good as the Trinidad win. BUt oh well, Both men have a good argument.


For everyone who gives Hopkins credit for Pavlik and Wright, I hope you guys give Mayweather credit for Marquez, if he wins.





AND... If Mayweather does indeed fight and beat Pacquiao then I don't think it's a question of who has the better resume.


Nope. Hopkins was 42 and 43 when he beat those guys. Tecchnically he shouldn't even be fighitng, that's why he gets credit. Nice try though.
MarzB
This thread reminds me back in 2005 when Hop and Floyd were trading jobs with each other over who was the "REAL" pound 4 pound king, LOL,

QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ May 15 2009, 01:18 PM) *
Trinidad was monster a @ 147 and 154. At 160, I don't know...


I'm very curious what Trindad would have done to Keith Holmes however there was a reason that Trindad came into the Hopkins fight at 3-1 odds and it didnt' all deal with Hopkins being an unknown to the mainstream either. Trindad OBLITERATED Wiliam Joppy who was a legitamate charge/champion at in the middleweight divison at the time.

In fact Trindad was declaring all after the fight how "he's a true middlweight" and 'this is the division he belongs". Thats why I desmiss most notions of Hop fighting/beating up little guys.

Meantime, Hop at this point and thats only do to length of career and focus. They both have good resumes and have WOW people (even I thought Floyd was gonna lose when he fought Chico) at times.

The one commonality that you see in both of them (ironically they're both my favorite active fighters) is their dedication to the sport along with their conditioning. They are both one of the few handfull of fighters in history with exception to the Jonese fight that have never been DOMINATED in fights. All of Hopkins loses save for the jones fight could have EASILY gone the other way in his favor.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ May 15 2009, 01:18 PM) *
Trinidad was monster a @ 147 and 154. At 160, I don't know...

Yup..

Corrales would of been better off if the Floyd fight was a division higher too like Trinidad may of done better if it was a lower weight too..Also,Floyd fought Castillo who I think P4P is better than Trinidad..Castillo is a smarter fighter in my opinion..Floyd also has the underrated(not to us though) Augustus on his resume too..

Right now I say B-Hop but Floyd may pass him up with wins over Pac-man,Marquez(if we're doin this based off names,not the actual fight),and other welterweights..Paul Williams would be huge for Floyd to have on there in my opinion..
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 15 2009, 04:13 PM) *
Yup..

Corrales would of been better off if the Floyd fight was a division higher too like Trinidad may of done better if it was a lower weight too..Also,Floyd fought Castillo who I think P4P is better than Trinidad..Castillo is a smarter fighter in my opinion..Floyd also has the underrated(not to us though) Augustus on his resume too..

Right now I say B-Hop but Floyd may pass him up with wins over Pac-man,Marquez(if we're doin this based off names,not the actual fight),and other welterweights..Paul Williams would be huge for Floyd to have on there in my opinion..


Castillo was good and very underrated but he's not better P4P than Trinidad. Hell, if memory serves me correctly the highest he ever got to the list was in the lower 10. Trinidad for a while was in the top 3. Trinidad's victories over Whitaker and DLH alone trump anything Castillo accomlished and that was a lot.

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ May 15 2009, 03:17 PM) *
Castillo was good and very underrated but he's not better P4P than Trinidad. Hell, if memory serves me correctly the highest he ever got to the list was in the lower 10. Trinidad for a while was in the top 3. Trinidad's victories over Whitaker and DLH alone trump anything Castillo accomlished and that was a lot.

I should clarify that..I think Castillo had more skills than Trinidad..I'm not talking the actual P4P rankings..Yet,my opinion is biased on Trinidad if ya all haven't noticed..I'm not a fan of his and never was..
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 15 2009, 04:20 PM) *
I should clarify that..I think Castillo had more skills than Trinidad..I'm not talking the actual P4P rankings..Yet,my opinion is biased on Trinidad if ya all haven't noticed..I'm not a fan of his and never was..


I agree, Castillo had very underrated countepunching skills. Very good timing too. Mayweather had to dig deep to get those 2 wins against him. Too bad that Castillo's skills eroded. He still has that world class chin and hook to the body but his speed and reflexes are done.

I never rooted for Trinidad either but no I respect him because he fought everybody. Campas, Camacho, Whitaker, DLH, Pineda, Reid, Vargas, Joppy, Hopkins, Mayorga, Wright, Jones.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ May 15 2009, 03:26 PM) *
I agree, Castillo had very underrated countepunching skills. Very good timing too. Mayweather had to dig deep to get those 2 wins against him. Too bad that Castillo's skills eroded. He still has that world class chin and hook to the body but his speed and reflexes are done.

I never rooted for Trinidad either but no I respect him because he fought everybody. Campas, Camacho, Whitaker, DLH, Pineda, Reid, Vargas, Joppy, Hopkins, Mayorga, Wright, Jones.

After the fights with Corrales,you could only expect their skills to be eroded..Both Corrales and Castillo were both done after their fights..It was amazing stuff in the first fight..

No doubt Trinidad never backed down from anyone and wanted everyone..If he were around in any era,he'd always want the best and would of ended up with an amazing resume(names) but I don't know how well he'd do..The B-Hop fight showed what a very smart thinking fighter can do to someone with that kind of style..Thinkers are the top elites in boxing..History tells us that and today's fighters tell us that..
Thegreatequalizer
i think i have to go with mayweather. he's undefeated and even though he did some cherry picking did usually fight top guys (not at 140 though).

hopkins lost twice to taylor, who is not a hall of famer. even though they were close, he still lost basically. until floyd loses i'd find it hard to pick hopkins resume.
JLUVBABY
i give hopkins the edge cuzz early in his reign he blitzed guys that have been forgotten like joe lipsey that he knocked out.. john david jackson he k.o'd... a glenn johnson that is not the same fighter as he is today but he beat him he's better now... robert allen syd vanderpool echols holmes eastman where all good solid fighters when he fought and beat them... his reign at middleweight was very solid... mayweather could have had the same type of reign but he moved up which is what makes his career a little clouded... but no doubt he is as good as a prime hopkins... hopkins is not as good as he was 10 years ago... shows how good he really was... prime hopkins had killer instinct and would have chopped down calzaghe...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Thegreatequalizer @ May 15 2009, 05:15 PM) *
i think i have to go with mayweather. he's undefeated and even though he did some cherry picking did usually fight top guys (not at 140 though).

hopkins lost twice to taylor, who is not a hall of famer. even though they were close, he still lost basically. until floyd loses i'd find it hard to pick hopkins resume.


you can argue that hopkins vs. taylor is 1 and 1 but hopkins was an old man also.... no way jermain taylor beats the hopkins of the late 90's.... he gets ko'd and the fight is not even close... hokins changed his fighting style to prolong his career...
D-MARV
The reason why I made this tread is because most people will take Hopkins at first glance. But when you sit down and think about it, it's a lot closer than you think.
rusty_trombone
yeah, gotta go with hopkins
King Eugene
Its pretty even to me.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Fitz @ May 15 2009, 08:56 PM) *
Bernard Hopkins. It's easy for people to take Hopkins for granted, but if you really sit down and think about it and see what Hopkins has been doing in his 40's. It's really been impressive. Like I have said, it's not like Foreman or some other guys that won in there 40's who had dropped considerably and got by on power or something like Foreman. He is actually still beating world class fighters and is still as sound as any world class fighter out there. At his age, he SHOULDN'T be beating the world class fighters he is beating, he shouldn't even be very competitive. Most fighters would have start losing and going down in skill maybe 7-8 years ago and he is still doing what he is doing. I don't think anybody will do what Hopkins is doing at his age in the quality he is doing it in.

What Hopkins has done at this age is phenominal.
torvix2000
Factoring everything and not just the quality of opposition? I'd say Hopkins, easy.

In terms of resume', I'd say almost even. It's because prior to becoming a "coward", Mayweather has in his resume some great fights.

Overall, Hopkins!
Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ May 15 2009, 06:43 PM) *
you can argue that hopkins vs. taylor is 1 and 1 but hopkins was an old man also.... no way jermain taylor beats the hopkins of the late 90's.... he gets ko'd and the fight is not even close... hokins changed his fighting style to prolong his career...


a younger hopkins would have beat taylor, no doubt. but a younger hopkins did lose to roy jones.
Method
As far as Im concerned, an older Hopkins beat Taylro twice AND Calzaghe. A very YOUNG Hopkins lost a decision to Roy Jones, but in my opinion, it was far from any sort of domination.

Hopkins has the better career and better resume. Not questioning Floyd's athleticism and skill, but he has done more to avoid greatness than to seek it out.

The fucking guy eeks out a decision to ODLH, and these days talks as if he fucking dominated him. Hopkins, on the other hand, arguably didnt lose a round to DLH.

As for Corales, I mean, I love Chico, but he was B cal.
Al Hata

I'm going to go with Hopkins. He has won fights that many boxing experts did not expect him to win like Tito, Tarver and Pavlik. He did lose to Taylor and Joe Cal but I remember watching the fights thinking how easily a prime BHop would have won them.

I love Floyd, but hasn't taken any risks lately and until he fights and beats Mosley, Cotto and Pac I can't say he has a better resume.
The CEO
Yeah...gotta give it to Hopkins as of right now...but if Mayweather pulls off the run I was talkin' about...beating JMM, Pac, then Mosley or Cotto...I think he'd noticeably take the lead....
buford54
For now it's Hops. Considering the calibre of opposition available to him, he has fought everyone in and around his weight class.
Floyd has a huge pool of good fighters surrounding him and has, thus far, chosen to work his way into BIG money.

As far as the losses Hopkins has sustained versus Floyd's being undefeated:
All of Hopkins recent losses (JT, Calzaghe) can be strongly disputed and are still argued to this day.
Floyd has at least 2 fights where his wins can be disputed (JLC 1 and ODLH).

While Floyd has moved from 130 to 154 through the course of his career, remember he started much younger than Hops and had grew into the weights in 5-7 pound increments.
Hops, at 40, was still making 160. He then jumped 15 pounds in one shot and dominated the champ there.
kingknockout
QUOTE (Method @ May 16 2009, 07:59 PM) *
As far as Im concerned, an older Hopkins beat Taylro twice AND Calzaghe. A very YOUNG Hopkins lost a decision to Roy Jones, but in my opinion, it was far from any sort of domination.

Hopkins has the better career and better resume. Not questioning Floyd's athleticism and skill, but he has done more to avoid greatness than to seek it out.

The fucking guy eeks out a decision to ODLH, and these days talks as if he fucking dominated him. Hopkins, on the other hand, arguably didnt lose a round to DLH.

As for Corales, I mean, I love Chico, but he was B cal.





no2.gif nea.gif
King Eugene
QUOTE (Thegreatequalizer @ May 16 2009, 07:53 PM) *
a younger hopkins would have beat taylor, no doubt. but a younger hopkins did lose to roy jones.

You make it sound like thats a discredit.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (Method @ May 16 2009, 06:59 PM) *
Hopkins, on the other hand, arguably didnt lose a round to DLH.

What fight were you watching?


QUOTE (Method @ May 16 2009, 06:59 PM) *
As for Corales, I mean, I love Chico, but he was B cal.

Mayweather KO'ing Corrales @ 130 is more impressive than Hopkins KO'ing DLH @ 160...
Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE (3King3 @ May 17 2009, 11:46 AM) *
You make it sound like thats a discredit.


i'm just mentioning things i take into consideration when i'm comparing resumes. it's a little tough because b-hop is way past floyd in terms of where he is in his career. i think as far as the ratio of beating top fighters to fights goes they're pretty close. but then b-hop has some losses, so that makes me lean towards f-bomb.


how about ranking the resumes of b-hop, floyd and jones? how do you guys have that?
King Eugene
I think Hopkins biggiest accomplishments where his 20 title defenses, moving up 15 pounds and dominating the man who knocked Roy off the pound 4 pound number 1 spot, and still being an elite fighter at the age of 43.

Roy's biggest accomplishments are being at 8 time champ, going from middleweight to heavyweight staying undefeated while capturing the heavyweight crown and going back down to reclaim the LHW title.

Floyd's are being a 5 division champion while remaining undefeated.

Hmmmm Roy's my boy but at this moment I have to go with Hopkin's cause of the longevity of his career.

Is it just me or does it seem like Hopkins has been going around dominating fighters who beat the fighters he lost too? Well except for Calzaghe.
gbh32001
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ May 18 2009, 12:42 AM) *
What fight were you watching?



Mayweather KO'ing Corrales @ 130 is more impressive than Hopkins KO'ing DLH @ 160...
Mayweather is the greatest boxer of all time, until JMM suffocate him.LOL
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Thegreatequalizer @ May 16 2009, 06:53 PM) *
a younger hopkins would have beat taylor, no doubt. but a younger hopkins did lose to roy jones.


you can not compare a prime roy jones and a prime jermain taylor.. jones destroys taylor prime for prime... and fact is that even though hopkins lost to jones he gave him a very stern test and pretty much fought him on even grounds... hopkins gave jones the most hell in a fight till the tarver fights for jones... roy had to work for that win...
D-MARV
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ May 17 2009, 04:45 PM) *
you can not compare a prime roy jones and a prime jermain taylor.. jones destroys taylor prime for prime... and fact is that even though hopkins lost to jones he gave him a very stern test and pretty much fought him on even grounds... hopkins gave jones the most hell in a fight till the tarver fights for jones... roy had to work for that win...

Montell Griffin gave Roy a tough time in their first fight. Roy clearly won the Hopkins fight and be reminded he only fought with 1 arm. My point is this though, The Hopkins of recent is better than the hopkins of the past. That's just my opinion.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ May 17 2009, 03:51 PM) *
Montell Griffin gave Roy a tough time in their first fight. Roy clearly won the Hopkins fight and be reminded he only fought with 1 arm. My point is this though, The Hopkins of recent is better than the hopkins of the past. That's just my opinion.


i agree hopkins of recent is better than hopkins of the past... but montell was on his way to getting ko'd when jones hit him while he was down... griffin frustrated him but the rematch showed the truth of what they represented in the ring... hopkins fought though losing most of the rounds on pretty even terms with a young hungry roy jones jr.. nobody else would come that close till the tarver fights...
Method
QUOTE
and be reminded he only fought with 1 arm.


My man, if you REALLY believe that, then I have to question whether you actually saw the fight, or if you were still an itch n your daddy's pants. The biggest crock of shit n Roy Jones' career is his much later concotion that his right hand was hurt. Not ONLY that, but at one point during the fight, and this is NOT for dispute (watch the fucking tape), the color commentators hypothesize that Roy hurt his LEFT hand, because he STOPPED throwing it. Again, it's ON TAPE, so go fuck yourself with the "Roy beat him with one arm" shit!
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Method @ May 17 2009, 09:27 PM) *
My man, if you REALLY believe that, then I have to question whether you actually saw the fight, or if you were still an itch n your daddy's pants. The biggest crock of shit n Roy Jones' career is his much later concotion that his right hand was hurt. Not ONLY that, but at one point during the fight, and this is NOT for dispute (watch the fucking tape), the color commentators hypothesize that Roy hurt his LEFT hand, because he STOPPED throwing it. Again, it's ON TAPE, so go fuck yourself with the "Roy beat him with one arm" shit!


I have not seen that fight in years, so I could not tell you my scorecard(though I know I thought Roy won comfortably). But I was wondering if you scored there fight and what it was? I used to train in the same gym as Steve Little at the time, and he was always going down to Philly to spar with Hopkins to prepare him for his fight with Jones. I specifically remember Little tell the guys at the gym Hopkins was not going to win that fight. Not that he was knocking on him, just stating his opinion from there sparring sessions. No point to my story, just crazy thinking how long ago that was, and Bernard is STILL around being one of the best fighters around at his age yet.


King Eugene
Deep down I think it still messes with Hopkins though. No matter what he does he still has that unrevenged loss hanging over his head.

One of my co-workers favorite fighter is BHop and she always talks about Hopkins did this and Hopkins did that and how much better Hopkins and his career is better than Jones and I always shut her up and say...who did Hopkins lose to when he didn't gain the middleweight IBF title? LOL
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (3King3 @ May 17 2009, 11:48 PM) *
Deep down I think it still messes with Hopkins though. No matter what he does he still has that unrevenged loss hanging over his head.


You think? I am not sure...but I would think Hopkins knows he matured as a fighter as he got older and there is no shame in losing to Jones at that time. And he fought him tough, and did not get blown away either. I would just think Hopkins is comfortable with his career, and does not worry too much what happened in 1993. Maybe I am wrong though? dntknw.gif
King Eugene
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ May 18 2009, 12:21 AM) *
You think? I am not sure...but I would think Hopkins knows he matured as a fighter as he got older and there is no shame in losing to Jones at that time. And he fought him tough, and did not get blown away either. I would just think Hopkins is comfortable with his career, and does not worry too much what happened in 1993. Maybe I am wrong though? dntknw.gif

I kind of think so. I thought he was pursuing a rematch before the Calzaghe fight...could be wrong though dntknw.gif I bet if Jones beats Lacy then that potential match up would surface again. Of course I'd pick Hopkins this time though.
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