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JonnyBlaze
Who do you all think would have won this fight any why??

I'm getting bored with mostly talking about Mayweather,Pac-man,and Marquez..So lets get this thread going..I'm hoping to hear some good break downs..
Nay_Sayer
If Ibeabuchi could have got his hands on the pre-Steward Lewis then I'd take Ike by brutal KO...
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ May 20 2009, 04:46 PM) *
If Ibeabuchi could have got his hands on the pre-Steward Lewis then I'd take Ike by brutal KO...

What about after he had been training with Steward??Why do ya think Ike by brutal KO??
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Let's assume that both are in their primes then I'd take Lewis by wide UD.

Ike was able to do jack shit with Tua so I doubt he'd have the tools to take out a prime Lennox. I know I'm in the minority here but I've watched Tua/Ibeabuchi a heap of times (primarily because it's one of the best heavyweight scraps of the modern era) and at no point can I give that fight for The President. Yes I gave him all the early rounds but I gave Tua all the rounds from mid way on and I think Tua buzzed Ike more than Ike buzzed Tua.

But back to your question Jonny. When Lennox decides to he is a very effective safety first fighter (take the Tua figth as a prime example) and seeing Ike as a legitimate threat he would've used that all time great jab of his to keep him at bay and frustrate him. Ike had big time heart in the ring no doubt but Lewis had big time ring smarts, so he wins. At the end of the day just too technically proficient.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ May 20 2009, 05:26 PM) *
Let's assume that both are in their primes then I'd take Lewis by wide UD.

Ike was able to do jack shit with Tua so I doubt he'd have the tools to take out a prime Lennox. I know I'm in the minority here but I've watched Tua/Ibeabuchi a heap of times (primarily because it's one of the best heavyweight scraps of the modern era) and at no point can I give that fight for The President. Yes I gave him all the early rounds but I gave Tua all the rounds from mid way on and I think Tua buzzed Ike more than Ike buzzed Tua.

But back to your question Jonny. When Lennox decides to he is a very effective safety first fighter (take the Tua figth as a prime example) and seeing Ike as a legitimate threat he would've used that all time great jab of his to keep him at bay and frustrate him. Ike had big time heart in the ring no doubt but Lewis had big time ring smarts, so he wins. At the end of the day just too technically proficient.

Good points Ollie..I think you're right about Lennox's jab being a big factor and I agree Lennox had the edge in ring smarts..

I don't agree with what you said about the Tua fight though..I thought it was an amazing fight first off but I saw the fight in Ike's favor..His output in that fight was something no other heavyweight could do ever again(in my opinion)..He is able to take a massive shot too..It was definitely a close fight and just talking about it makes me want to watch it again..Maybe tonight after class..thumbsup_anim.gif

My opinion is still to come later..
jlupi
he would've used that all time great jab of his to keep him at bay >>>>

I never loved his jab. He mostly pawed with it to keep the distance
torvix2000
QUOTE (jlupi @ May 20 2009, 11:47 PM) *
he would've used that all time great jab of his to keep him at bay >>>>

I never loved his jab. He mostly pawed with it to keep the distance


His jab was overrated but his right wasn't. He was able to keep Tua at bay because well... we know all about Tua.
D-MARV
Lewis UD. He was just too good for Ike.
Lil-lightsout
Lewis by DQ. Ike would have had a meltdown getting soundly outboxed by LL, and he eventually would have probably hit him after the bell or threw him out of the ring, or broke the stool over his head, or something like that.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ May 20 2009, 06:11 PM) *
His jab was overrated but his right wasn't. He was able to keep Tua at bay because well... we know all about Tua.

Whether you think it was overrated or not,it was powerful and the more he threw it,the better he'd do in a fight..
D-MARV
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ May 20 2009, 07:11 PM) *
His jab was overrated but his right wasn't. He was able to keep Tua at bay because well... we know all about Tua.

I don't know about Tua... Can you fill me in?
torvix2000
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ May 21 2009, 02:14 AM) *
I don't know about Tua... Can you fill me in?


Get the foucka outta here! LOL!
BigG
Lewis wins a decision the Klitshcko way, jab, right, hold.
D-MARV
A "Prime" Lewis gives everybody HELL.




He would have gave Ali all he can handle.
BigG
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ May 21 2009, 02:26 AM) *
A "Prime" Lewis gives everybody HELL.




He would have gave Ali all he can handle.


A prime Lewis would have got his ass kicked against Larry Holmes and the Prime Tyson and Ali too.
torvix2000
QUOTE (biggeorge89 @ May 21 2009, 02:28 AM) *
A prime Lewis would have got his ass kicked against Larry Holmes and the Prime Tyson and Ali too.


A prime Lewis could get lucky against Holmes and Ali and cut him up winning via RSC... then Lewis would quit... este retire... from boxing telling the world that the was just "not into it" but at the same time always bragging how he would handle Holmes and Ali everytime they fight. Lol!
D-MARV
QUOTE (biggeorge89 @ May 20 2009, 09:28 PM) *
A prime Lewis would have got his ass kicked against Larry Holmes and the Prime Tyson and Ali too.

Holmes would have been tough.



Lewis beats Tyson 8 times out of 10.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (biggeorge89 @ May 21 2009, 02:28 AM) *
A prime Lewis would have got his ass kicked against Larry Holmes and the Prime Tyson and Ali too.


I don't think so. I think he would have handled Tyson unless Tyson caught him with a lucky shot. Tyson was a two beat fighter & Lewis provided he survives the first 2 rounds would time him with his jab & clock him eventually cleaning his clock with a big right.

Holmes & Ali would have posed a different problem to Lewis as they could really move & pump the jab in particular Holmes. His size & powerful right hand may be the difference but it would be a close chess match.

QUOTE (torvix2000 @ May 21 2009, 03:09 AM) *
A prime Lewis could get lucky against Holmes and Ali and cut him up winning via RSC... then Lewis would quit... este retire... from boxing telling the world that the was just "not into it" but at the same time always bragging how he would handle Holmes and Ali everytime they fight. Lol!


What you mean the old slow fat verging on retirement Lewis? You obviously just don't get it that Lewis not only won the fight he left Vitali with a permamant reminder via the chasm gushing blood. This is not some dodgy stoppage that gifted Lewis a win but a legit stoppage for the safety of the fighter. Lets not go back down this path..............
King Eugene
Lewis makes this fight look like his fight with Tyson...maybe even worse. Timing him with the jab to keep him at bay and then eventually unloading that right hand until he couldn't take it anymore. Wait a minute hold up...didn't a Prime Lewis (with Manny) do everybody like that? lol
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ May 20 2009, 09:11 PM) *
Holmes would have been tough.



Lewis beats Tyson 8 times out of 10.

I'd go with 9 out of 10 in Lennox's favor..

Holyfield would be 10 out of 10 against Tyson..Tyson would continue to have mental breakdowns in the ring after the first fight with Holy cause he knew he couldn't bully him or push Holy around..Holy would stand his ground..

Steven,I completely agree with your analysis of Tyson/Lewis..Lewis would time Tyson(can be hard because he is fast but he is predictable with his movements)..
Romulus9
QUOTE (biggeorge89 @ May 20 2009, 09:28 PM) *
A prime Lewis would have got his ass kicked against Larry Holmes and the Prime Tyson and Ali too.



A prime Lewis didn't even want to deal with an old Holmes. (Read Larry's book... very cool read.)

A truly prime Lewis could have hung with Ali, but that would have had to have been the Lewis that fought Rahman the second time or somewhere in there.

A prime Lewis gives even a prime Tyson problems just based on angles alone. He's built, and fights, in a way that would drive Tyson crazy. The difference between 2002 Tyson and 1988 Tyson is the feet. A June 1988 Tyson could get inside the Lewis jab that, while as good as there was in his era, isn't quite what its often made out to be. The jab from a 38 year old Larry Holmes that Tyson fought in January 1988 was still better than Lewis' jab ever was. Ever.

No matter who is concerned out of the three you mentioned, the problem that would come back and get Lewis in all three fights is the same: his chin. Of the three, he'd fare best against Tyson but the results may not look good for him collectively.

JonnyBlaze
Lennox has a great chin..What are you talking about??The punches he took from Klitchko were insane..Rahman and McCall caught him with perfect shots..Any heavyweight would of been messed up from those shots..
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 21 2009, 02:38 AM) *
Steven,I completely agree with your analysis of Tyson/Lewis..Lewis would time Tyson(can be hard because he is fast but he is predictable with his movements)..


Tyson is extremely predictable but he usually overwhelms his opposition.
King Eugene
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 20 2009, 10:52 PM) *
Lennox has a great chin..What are you talking about??The punches he took from Klitchko were insane..Rahman and McCall caught him with perfect shots..Any heavyweight would of been messed up from those shots..

What I've noticed is after a fighter is down twice he's automatically hit with the "glass chin" tag which isn't necessarily the case or fair. Every now and then guys just get caught.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (3King3 @ May 20 2009, 10:01 PM) *
What I've noticed is after a fighter is down twice he's automatically hit with the "glass chin" tag which isn't necessarily the case or fair. Every now and then guys just get caught.

Just about everyone gets caught whether they get KO'd or just put down..If you get hit with a perfect punch,like the liver shot,you're goin down..Lennox was careless and he got hit with a perfect punch twice..He made a mistake,that's it..He doesn't have a glass chin at all!!
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (wvu8893 @ May 21 2009, 03:43 AM) *
A prime Lewis didn't even want to deal with an old Holmes. (Read Larry's book... very cool read.)


That is Larry's words in his autobiography & of course he will make himself look good in it. I have the book & it is a fantastic read but claims like that should be taken with a grain of salt.

QUOTE (wvu8893 @ May 21 2009, 03:43 AM) *
No matter who is concerned out of the three you mentioned, the problem that would come back and get Lewis in all three fights is the same: his chin. Of the three, he'd fare best against Tyson but the results may not look good for him collectively.


I don't buy the glass chin bit because both times Lewis was KO'd he was hit as flush as you can get on the chin. I have seen him take many big shots & one that stands out is a uppercut from Holyfield in the 8th round (I think) in their 2nd fight that if he had a glass chin would have dropped him.

torvix2000
If it wasn't his chin, then it's his skills which was lacking. He couldn't prevent being KOed/TKOed twice by 1-shots. If it wasn't his skills, then what? I suppose he got a very bad case of bad luck twice.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ May 21 2009, 06:57 AM) *
If it wasn't his chin, then it's his skills which was lacking. He couldn't prevent being KOed/TKOed twice by 1-shots. If it wasn't his skills, then what? I suppose he got a very bad case of bad luck twice.


Torvix for once we agree? The sloppiness of those losses will always taint Lennox's career.
torvix2000
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ May 21 2009, 01:03 PM) *
Torvix for once we agree? The sloppiness of those losses will always taint Lennox's career.


Yup! People say he doesn't have a glass chin. But if he doesn't have a glass chin, then why did he get KOed/TKOed by 1-shots? People will reply the usual "because any heavyweight will fall down from that type of shot". Then why the heck did he allow himself to get caught by that type of shot TWICE? Probably he didn't have the skills or heart or whatever. But people will say he is extremely skilled. If so, then he could have prevented one of those two KO/TKOs. Or perhaps he just came unprepared. Again, TWICE!!! If he came unprepared twice, then he has no rights to brag and ridicule the heavyweight division after he left. WHICH IS WHICH?!!
jlupi
Whether you think it was overrated or not,it was powerful >>>>> effective maybe. If I remember holy made fun of the lack of power. compare power to to bowe who was hurting holy w his jab.

Lewis to me was a good fighter but not great. On a given night he could possibly beat anyone because of his power and size. However he could lose to antone also. 1 punch KOs to mccall and rock hurt by briggs and bruno. none were world beaters. GREAT fighters should not lose to club fighers and lightning should not strike twice.

In possibly his best performance he was lucky to get by mercer who did fight a great fight but was far from a great fighter.

And lets not forget than great performance over Zeljko Mavrovic.

Fact is Lewis really diddnt get popular untill he faught an aging holy (who in my opinion gave him a hell of a fight in #2) and a shot tyson.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ May 20 2009, 05:26 PM) *
Let's assume that both are in their primes then I'd take Lewis by wide UD.

Ike was able to do jack shit with Tua so I doubt he'd have the tools to take out a prime Lennox. I know I'm in the minority here but I've watched Tua/Ibeabuchi a heap of times (primarily because it's one of the best heavyweight scraps of the modern era) and at no point can I give that fight for The President. Yes I gave him all the early rounds but I gave Tua all the rounds from mid way on and I think Tua buzzed Ike more than Ike buzzed Tua.

But back to your question Jonny. When Lennox decides to he is a very effective safety first fighter (take the Tua figth as a prime example) and seeing Ike as a legitimate threat he would've used that all time great jab of his to keep him at bay and frustrate him. Ike had big time heart in the ring no doubt but Lewis had big time ring smarts, so he wins. At the end of the day just too technically proficient.

I agree with every word of this analysis. Including the part about Tua beating Ike.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (jlupi @ May 20 2009, 05:47 PM) *
I never loved his jab. He mostly pawed with it to keep the distance

Lewis tended to paw with the jab, but when he was dialed in he could really shoot it down the pipe nicely.

Watch the Rahman rematch as an example.

Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ May 21 2009, 05:57 AM) *
If it wasn't his chin, then it's his skills which was lacking. He couldn't prevent being KOed/TKOed twice by 1-shots. If it wasn't his skills, then what? I suppose he got a very bad case of bad luck twice.

With Rahman it was his ego.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 20 2009, 05:09 PM) *
What about after he had been training with Steward??Why do ya think Ike by brutal KO??

Lewis under Steward was just a different animal altogether who never really got outboxed [notable exception to Ray Mercer]. Of course Frank [Glass Joe] Bruno was giving the pre-Steward Lewis ALL he could handle before walking into a big left hook. Had that been Ike in front of him instead on Bruno, Lewis would have got KTFO that night, IMO...
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ May 21 2009, 05:46 PM) *
Lewis under Steward was just a different animal altogether who never really got outboxed [notable exception to Ray Mercer]. Of course Frank [Glass Joe] Bruno was giving the pre-Steward Lewis ALL he could handle before walking into a big left hook. Had that been Ike in front of him instead on Bruno, Lewis would have got KTFO that night, IMO...



We are talking about the best version of both fighters not the average version.
JLUVBABY
i suppose i am in the minority when i say that ike was the one heavyweight that would give lewis fits.. he took a hell of a punch and he brought it all night long... he caught up and did to chris byrd sumthing even the klits couldnt do and that was bust him up and take him out rather early and that was not even the byrd that the klits fought but a young very elusive chris byrd.. the one that was hard to hit with a hand full of rice... while i agree the steward trained lewis would have been harder for him to beat i think ike would have bulled him and eventually did to him what rahman and mccall got lucky in doing only his ko wouldnt have been luck... the guy was a beast.... rather he won or loss the tua fight he took tuas best power shots all night long and kept coming and brought the same back tuas way... he had the best chance of any heavy other than a in shape bowe to give lewis hell... bowe was another fighter that at his very best (first holyfield fight) was good enough to beat a prime lewis...
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ May 21 2009, 05:53 PM) *
We are talking about the best version of both fighters not the average version.

I'd take Lewis by close UD...
jlupi
bowe was another fighter that at his very best (first holyfield fight) was good enough to beat a prime lewis>>>

its a shame bowe had such a short prime...
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (jlupi @ May 22 2009, 02:25 PM) *
bowe was another fighter that at his very best (first holyfield fight) was good enough to beat a prime lewis>>>

its a shame bowe had such a short prime...

Holyfield ruined Bowe and made Bowe punchy..Why do ya think he is the way he is now??Golota did some damage too but I give 95% of the damage done to Bowe to Holyfield..

As far as saying Lewis must lack skill if not his chin is ridiculous..He got hit with a perfect punch when he was cocky and lowered his hands..That could happen to anyone who gets confident like Lennox did..He'd get cocky and feel extra slick and he paid for that twice..
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (jlupi @ May 22 2009, 08:25 PM) *
bowe was another fighter that at his very best (first holyfield fight) was good enough to beat a prime lewis>>>

its a shame bowe had such a short prime...


Bowe threw his belt in the bin rather than face Lewis & Lewis already knocked him out in the Olympics.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ May 26 2009, 01:07 AM) *
Bowe threw his belt in the bin rather than face Lewis & Lewis already knocked him out in the Olympics.

That was so pathetic..I really wish we could of seen Lewis/Bowe in the pros but Lewis already had Bowe mentally beat so the fight would of sucked anyway..
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