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King Eugene
Dont know how credible buddy is but I checked it out and I'm liking what I read.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=20107
JonnyBlaze
Do ya like how Chad made Johnson wait and continue to get older??

I'd be real happy about this fight but Chad is scared to do it again with Johnson..He,like I think he lost the fight..
King Eugene
I honestly think he'll be Johnson a lot more convincing this time around.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (3King3 @ May 27 2009, 01:47 AM) *
I honestly think he'll be Johnson a lot more convincing this time around.

How do ya figure that??Cause Johnson is older??Dawson did not beat Tarver worse the second time even though punch stats may say differently..Punch stats are not accurate when judging a fight though..In the amateurs they are but not the pros..A guy could have a huge round one round and a shitty one the next but end up with good stats at the end..Tarver was in the second fight more than the first one..I really think Dawson has fear of Johnson..I really like Dawson but he showed fear when being asked about Johnson..He arguably lost the fight and he doesn't want another one..Johnson is the guy to fight for him at light heavy though so he's kinda forced into it..
King Eugene
He arguably won the fight as well...wait a minute. He did win the fight. He did enough in the early rounds to seal the deal. Johnson started slow and thats what lost him the fight. I think Dawson will be more prepared for Johnson late onslaught. Yes Dawson was rocked a few times late in the fight but Johnson still couldn't put him away. I think that says more a bout Johnson than it does Dawson since he supposedly has a glass chin.
King Eugene
Johnson is almost like a measuring stick for the LHW division. He's no world beater but he's no ATG either but at the end of the day he'll give you a run for your money and the crown their moneys worth.
Blayde
QUOTE (Fitz @ May 27 2009, 09:32 AM) *
Johnson is a guy that can't beat anybody convincingly, he is just a work horse that's it. I think people sometimes try to make him into something more than he is. I like him, he tries hard though.


For sure, Johnson is a guy who seemed to hurt Dawson several times in their first bout and who apparently has the better stamina despite being 15 years older. I dont think Johnson is that great, either, but I think hes a dangerous matchup for Chad.

That being said I think Dawson won the first fight and will do it again, but with Johnson tight D and the pressure he applies its gonna be close again.
Method
I think Glenn won the first but I think Chad will win the rematch. I'm pulling for Glenn, though.
D-MARV
I love How people think Dawson is ducking Johnson. He beat Johnson and went on to beat the guy who beat Johnson. The only reason Johnson had to wait was that Tarver had the rematch clause.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Fitz @ May 27 2009, 06:57 AM) *
You mean the guy who split fights with Johnson.

I though Tarver CLEARLY won both fights but whatever... Dawson went on to fight Tarver who had a belt at the time and was coming off a win over someone who had previously beaten Johnson himself.
D-MARV
Dawson just vacated the IBF title...


Looks like Dawson-Johnson II is a done deal.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Fitz @ May 27 2009, 02:32 AM) *
Johnson is a guy that can't beat anybody convincingly, he is just a work horse that's it. I think people sometimes try to make him into something more than he is. I like him, he tries hard though.

People definitely try to make Johnson into something more than he is. He's a true prizefighter. Seems like a good guy. I'm a fan. He's a guy who makes better fighters have to work hard to beat him.
JLUVBABY
i have to say this and i will continue to say it... johnson beat dawson in their fight.. just because the judges give a fighter a "w" doesnt make them a winner with the fans that know boxing, though i know judging can be subjective and what i like the next guy may not like when judging a fight, etc... its a win in the record book but johnson won that fight by a few rounds... that being said i do believe that dawson has matured as a fighter and i would have to give him the edge this time around though i will say this i hope johnson puts it on him this time around again to make up for the injustice of the first fight.. he was robbed in my opinion the first time around...
Fitz
QUOTE (Big Slim @ May 28 2009, 02:31 AM) *
People definitely try to make Johnson into something more than he is. He's a true prizefighter. Seems like a good guy. I'm a fan. He's a guy who makes better fighters have to work hard to beat him.


Yep, agreed. I'm not trying to diss Johnson or anything, I have respect for him, he makes a tough fight for just about anyone and never in for an easy night with him, but he just can't win any fight convincingly, kind of like Taylor couldn't and many others, except he doesn't have that same status that other guys have.
I just think he works very hard, and what makes him tough, just a work horse. But I do feel that some people try to make him out to be an elite guy.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ May 27 2009, 07:03 PM) *
but he just can't win any fight convincingly


Ask Roy Jones if GJ beat him convincinly!!!


Just messing with ya Fitz.
King Eugene
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ May 27 2009, 09:31 PM) *
Ask Roy Jones if GJ beat him convincinly!!!


Just messing with ya Fitz.

"clearing my throat" I'll glady answer that...he CANT! nea.gif

Ask James Toney if RJ beat him convincingly!
Fitz
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ May 28 2009, 11:31 AM) *
Ask Roy Jones if GJ beat him convincinly!!!


Just messing with ya Fitz.


Haha. Even if I were to ask RJJ, I doubt he would remember a thing laugh.gif
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (3King3 @ May 27 2009, 09:34 PM) *
"clearing my throat" I'll glady answer that...he CANT! nea.gif

Ask James Toney if RJ beat him convincingly!


Oooooohhhhhhh...you wanna go there 3King. Atleast my boy can take punches from HEAVYWEIGHTS, never been close to stopped, Roy's been iced TWICE by one punch KO's at lightheavyweight. laugh.gif And he got bitch slapped for 11 rounds against that feather fisted fruit cake. laugh.gif
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ May 27 2009, 09:36 PM) *
Haha. Even if I were to ask RJJ, I doubt he would remember a thing laugh.gif


If you were to ask him, his response would be something like...Pensacola in the House!!! Or maybe... STILL P4P the best!!!
Fitz
LOL. You nailed that one, that's probably exactly how it would go.
King Eugene
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ May 27 2009, 09:43 PM) *
Oooooohhhhhhh...you wanna go there 3King. Atleast my boy can take punches from HEAVYWEIGHTS, never been close to stopped, Roy's been iced TWICE by one punch KO's at lightheavyweight. laugh.gif And he got bitch slapped for 11 rounds against that feather fisted fruit cake. laugh.gif

LMAO...so, atleast he one the Heavyweight strap fair and square and more convincingly than James Michelin Man Toney and didn't lose to Montel Griffin twice! He might talk fast but he dont sound like he has donuts in one jaw and spit in the other.

Lets go...we can go all day. LOL
King Eugene
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ May 27 2009, 09:45 PM) *
If you were to ask him, his response would be something like...Pensacola in the House!!! Or maybe... STILL P4P the best!!!

LMAO...ah shut the hell up.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (3King3 @ May 27 2009, 09:47 PM) *
LMAO...so, atleast he one the Heavyweight strap fair and square and more convincingly than James Michelin Man Toney and didn't lose to Montel Griffin twice! He might talk fast but he dont sound like he has donuts in one jaw and spit in the other.

Lets go...we can go all day. LOL


It's WON, not one!!! I got you all rattled??? Yeah.. and he cherry picked the Quiet Man, wow that is so impressive! And that Michelin Man embarrassed that same Ruiz with 3 weeks of training and about 30 pounds overweight. Beating Ruiz is nothing to brag about.

Toney BEAT Griffin twice, I do not care what those judges scored it. Roy had to stoop to an all-time low and sucker-punch Griffin in the first fight because he was all befuddled by Montell. The only reason won the rematch cause MG never emotionally recoverd from Roy's cheap shot in the first fight.

What you gonna do when Lacy stretches Roy? Maybe Roy can ask Pazienza for a rematch? laugh.gif
King Eugene
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ May 27 2009, 10:09 PM) *
It's WON, not one!!! I got you all rattled??? Yeah.. and he cherry picked the Quiet Man, wow that is so impressive! And that Michelin Man embarrassed that same Ruiz with 3 weeks of training and about 30 pounds overweight. Beating Ruiz is nothing to brag about.

Toney BEAT Griffin twice, I do not care what those judges scored it. Roy had to stoop to an all-time low and sucker-punch Griffin in the first fight because he was all befuddled by Montell. The only reason won the rematch cause MG never emotionally recoverd from Roy's cheap shot in the first fight.

What you gonna do when Lacy stretches Roy? Maybe Roy can ask Pazienza for a rematch? laugh.gif

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
He didn't cherry pick Ruiz. He picked a tuff Hall of Fame SOB that whooped up on Holyfield. What do you mean...Ruiz is everything to brag about!

Toney took a spanking from good ol Griffin. That last punch Roy threw was a "and stay yo ass down" shot. Griffin was already down and hurt. That was just a little extra whip cream on the topping. LOL The second fight Roy had to go finish closing the deal on his new single so he had no time to play around with Griffin for 12 rounds. Get'em out of there!

If Lacy stretches Roy you can have my sig! Pazienza dont want none! Ask Toney would he be willing to give Ivan Barkley a rematch. I bet he'd be shaking in his boots lol.
iron_mike
Oh man, I would LOVE to see this fight...seems like the only way Johnson can win is if he wins every round (Daniel Judah) or score a KO. I forgot how I scored I, but I had him winning that by at least 2 or 3 rds...why is it certain fighters always seem to get jobbed? Augustus comes to mind as well
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (3King3 @ May 27 2009, 10:30 PM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
He didn't cherry pick Ruiz. He picked a tuff Hall of Fame SOB that whooped up on Holyfield. What do you mean...Ruiz is everything to brag about!

Toney took a spanking from good ol Griffin. That last punch Roy threw was a "and stay yo ass down" shot. Griffin was already down and hurt. That was just a little extra whip cream on the topping. LOL The second fight Roy had to go finish closing the deal on his new single so he had no time to play around with Griffin for 12 rounds. Get'em out of there!

If Lacy stretches Roy you can have my sig! Pazienza dont want none! Ask Toney would he be willing to give Ivan Barkley a rematch. I bet he'd be shaking in his boots lol.


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

First the Campbell thread gets derailed with PBF shit, and now we are derailing poor GJ thread. laugh.gif Man... we just can not stop talking/bickering about the egotistical fighters, while the quiet nice guys get no love.

Anyway, you know I am messing with ya, I like Roy too. Quick funny( kind of) story about the fight between Jones and Toney. I was going to a get together with some friend to watch it at another house back in 1994. I lived at home at the time, and my parents knew I was a huge Toney fan, so when I left, I left my parents a note to let them know I would be home late that night(when out after fight too). So I left this detailed note telling my parents how Toney was going to destroy Roy and was bragging up a storm about the fight. The funny part is my Mom and Dad thought it was funny and still to this day has the note and is humorous for me to read.
Big Slim Sweet
James Toney > Roy Jones Jr. That's easy.

Did Roy ever knock out an undefeated top 3 p4p champion at the top of his game like Toney did Nunn? No.

Did Roy ever beat the crap out of an undefeated top 10 p4p champion at the top of his game - 30 pounds and 12 years later no less - like Toney did Jirov? No.

Did Roy ever beat the holy living shit out of an all-time great, legendary heavyweight champion and bury him in the canvas like Toney did Holyfield? No.

What did Roy do that Toney didn't? Pump out a bunch of top 40 hits for a soft decade like Rick Springfield did in the early 80's? laugh.gif laugh.gif

Knocking out Montell Griffin as his career highlight? laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Getting KTFO not once but twice and soon to be thrice? laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

James Toney had more skills than Roy Jones any day of the week any week of the year. Bigger and better wins in his career and a funnier personality to boot. Lights Out by a landslide.
King Eugene
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ May 27 2009, 10:49 PM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

First the Campbell thread gets derailed with PBF shit, and now we are derailing poor GJ thread. laugh.gif Man... we just can not stop talking/bickering about the egotistical fighters, while the quiet nice guys get no love.

Anyway, you know I am messing with ya, I like Roy too. Quick funny( kind of) story about the fight between Jones and Toney. I was going to a get together with some friend to watch it at another house back in 1994. I lived at home at the time, and my parents knew I was a huge Toney fan, so when I left, I left my parents a note to let them know I would be home late that night(when out after fight too). So I left this detailed note telling my parents how Toney was going to destroy Roy and was bragging up a storm about the fight. The funny part is my Mom and Dad thought it was funny and still to this day has the note and is humorous for me to read.

LOL too funny...I did it on purpose though just to be an asshole. LOL

Did you enjoy your time out since Toney lost as much as you would if Toney had one(won) lol.
King Eugene
QUOTE (Big Slim @ May 28 2009, 12:57 AM) *
James Toney > Roy Jones Jr. That's easy.

Did Roy ever knock out an undefeated top 3 p4p champion at the top of his game like Toney did Nunn? No.

Did Roy ever beat the crap out of an undefeated top 10 p4p champion at the top of his game - 30 pounds and 12 years later no less - like Toney did Jirov? No.

Did Roy ever beat the holy living shit out of an all-time great, legendary heavyweight champion and bury him in the canvas like Toney did Holyfield? No.

What did Roy do
that Toney didn't? Pump out a bunch of top 40 hits for a soft decade like Rick Springfield did in the early 80's? laugh.gif laugh.gif

Knocking out Montell Griffin as his career highlight?

Getting KTFO not once but twice and soon to be thrice?

James Toney had more skills than Roy Jones any day of the week any week of the year. Bigger and better wins in his career and a funnier personality to boot. Lights Out by a landslide.

Did Toney beat Roy?
fuck.gif laugh.gif fuck.gif laugh.gif fuck.gif laugh.gif
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ May 27 2009, 06:09 AM) *
I though Tarver CLEARLY won both fights but whatever... Dawson went on to fight Tarver who had a belt at the time and was coming off a win over someone who had previously beaten Johnson himself.

Styles make fights..In their old age(for a boxer),Johnson's style is still competitive with Dawson..He is still able to throw punches in bunches..Johnson has never been fast but has lost some speed as well..If Johnson can punch when Dawson does,he'll stay in the fight and has a chance to win this fight..If he waits on Dawson(which would be uncharacteric of him),he'll get beat..This was very obvious in the first fight..Johnson was very slow compared to Dawson and if he sat there and let Dawson get off,he was a sitting duck..

Tarver has not been able to really put out a high output with speed on the punches since the Johnson fights..
JonnyBlaze
Well I won't be delusional about Holyfield but you guys sure are about the Toney/Holyfield fight..Holyfield had been through how many insane wars in his career??The last good fight Holyfield had was the second Lennox Lewis fight..You guys are talking about the Ruiz fights and how he got "whooped" by him??Well he was 38-39 years old in those fights and his shoulder was fucked up and he thought he could beat Ruiz even with one arm..Really stupid plan but he showed he was a warrior like Danny Williams did with one arm..He waited till after the Donald fight to get his shoulder fixed for real and not just try to rest it up..

What is there to brag about that you beat a 41 year old guy that had many many wars and was suffering from injuries in his best arm(Toney fight)??Guys who had been in wars like Holyfield had been in retired by the time they were in their early/mid 30s..Barrera is one guy..Erik Morales was 32 when he said he was retiring..Who knows if he's comin back or not..Riddick Bowe first retired when he was 29 because of what Holy did to him in their 3 fights..Golota made him realize what kinda damage had been done to him from Holy..He then comes back as a vegetable at age 38 and fights 3 easy fights and we never see him again besides in the stands at fights.
D-MARV
LMAO...

Roy Jones > James Toney and thats not up for debate.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 28 2009, 03:36 AM) *
Well I won't be delusional about Holyfield but you guys sure are about the Toney/Holyfield fight..Holyfield had been through how many insane wars in his career??The last good fight Holyfield had was the second Lennox Lewis fight..You guys are talking about the Ruiz fights and how he got "whooped" by him??Well he was 38-39 years old in those fights and his shoulder was fucked up and he thought he could beat Ruiz even with one arm..Really stupid plan but he showed he was a warrior like Danny Williams did with one arm..He waited till after the Donald fight to get his shoulder fixed for real and not just try to rest it up..

What is there to brag about that you beat a 41 year old guy that had many many wars and was suffering from injuries in his best arm(Toney fight)??Guys who had been in wars like Holyfield had been in retired by the time they were in their early/mid 30s..Barrera is one guy..Erik Morales was 32 when he said he was retiring..Who knows if he's comin back or not..Riddick Bowe first retired when he was 29 because of what Holy did to him in their 3 fights..Golota made him realize what kinda damage had been done to him from Holy..He then comes back as a vegetable at age 38 and fights 3 easy fights and we never see him again besides in the stands at fights.


Jonny I know you have mad man-love for Holy so I won't go on about it too long, but I don't think it's the fact that Toney beat Holy that impresses it is the WAY he beat him that blew many of us away.

One arm or two he just owned Holy mentally and physically in that fight in a way that hasn't been done to him before or AFTER. No-one has owned Holy that completely. When his corner threw in the towel Holy almost looked relieved and there he is a few years later still being vaguely competitive (and even being robbed out of another title) but that night he got plain raped by the former MIDDLEWEIGHT champion of the world.

Sometimes it's not just winning the fight it's how you win the fight.

But back on track I actually like Dawson in a rematch. I get the feeling he will take this fight. And it's one I will buy for sure (provided the shithead programmers in NZ actually buy the fight.)
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ May 28 2009, 06:50 AM) *
Jonny I know you have mad man-love for Holy so I won't go on about it too long, but I don't think it's the fact that Toney beat Holy that impresses it is the WAY he beat him that blew many of us away.

One arm or two he just owned Holy mentally and physically in that fight in a way that hasn't been done to him before or AFTER. No-one has owned Holy that completely. When his corner threw in the towel Holy almost looked relieved and there he is a few years later still being vaguely competitive (and even being robbed out of another title) but that night he got plain raped by the former MIDDLEWEIGHT champion of the world.

Sometimes it's not just winning the fight it's how you win the fight.


clapping.gif clapping.gif clapping.gif clapping.gif clapping.gif


This man knows what he is talking about. thumbsup_anim.gif thumbsup_anim.gif thumbsup_anim.gif
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ May 28 2009, 05:50 AM) *
Jonny I know you have mad man-love for Holy so I won't go on about it too long, but I don't think it's the fact that Toney beat Holy that impresses it is the WAY he beat him that blew many of us away.

One arm or two he just owned Holy mentally and physically in that fight in a way that hasn't been done to him before or AFTER. No-one has owned Holy that completely. When his corner threw in the towel Holy almost looked relieved and there he is a few years later still being vaguely competitive (and even being robbed out of another title) but that night he got plain raped by the former MIDDLEWEIGHT champion of the world.

Sometimes it's not just winning the fight it's how you win the fight.

But back on track I actually like Dawson in a rematch. I get the feeling he will take this fight. And it's one I will buy for sure (provided the shithead programmers in NZ actually buy the fight.)

I guess we could say the same for when Marciano beat Joe Louis then huh??Louis did ok in the beginning than got a bad beating..We should give Marciano a shit load of props then too for that right??Louis was 37 in that fight..

Holy did get robbed out of the title by a dead man walking..The only really good win in his comeback was against Fres Oquendo..People even thought Fres won this fight too(not me)..I know before I tried to plead a case for all the guys in his comeback but right here I'm not trying to BS..It would have been dope if he won the title again but there was a lot missing,especially his speed..He tried to be more technical which was good but it was because all he had to rely on was his skill and none of his abilities he had before like speed,reflexes ,and stuff like that..He shoulder was better in his comeback but obviously it was nothing like it was against Bowe or Mercer..His left shoulder was fucked up after the second Lennox fight..Do you honestly think Holy is that dumb to keep getting hit with right hands or right jabs by southpaws over and over??Be honest with yourselves..Go back and watch the fights..His shoulder starts off ok,then he stops throwing it and basically hangs by his side the rest of the way..It happened against Byrd,Toney,and in the first Moorer fight..I don't see how ya don't notice something is wrong..

Also,we can talk shit about every guy Pac-man,Floyd,Harry Greb,Holyfield,and Chris Byrd has fought then too at higher weight classes..Holy started as a LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT,remember??I think ya forgot..Pac-man was a strawweight who has beaten a welterweight and jr. welterweight..Chris Byrd started at 169 and at one point was the best heavyweight holding his one belt longer than any other heavyweight champ at that time after Lennox left..Chris Byrd was a way better heavyweight than Toney too..He was beating guys weighing 280 and he'd sometimes come in below 200 lbs..He struggled to be a heavyweight..
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 28 2009, 04:18 PM) *
I guess we could say the same for when Marciano beat Joe Louis then huh??Louis did ok in the beginning than got a bad beating..We should give Marciano a shit load of props then too for that right??Louis was 37 in that fight..

Holy did get robbed out of the title by a dead man walking..The only really good win in his comeback was against Fres Oquendo..People even thought Fres won this fight too(not me)..I know before I tried to plead a case for all the guys in his comeback but right here I'm not trying to BS..It would have been dope if he won the title again but there was a lot missing,especially his speed..He tried to be more technical which was good but it was because all he had to rely on was his skill and none of his abilities he had before like speed,reflexes ,and stuff like that..He shoulder was better in his comeback but obviously it was nothing like it was against Bowe or Mercer..His left shoulder was fucked up after the second Lennox fight..Do you honestly think Holy is that dumb to keep getting hit with right hands or right jabs by southpaws over and over??Be honest with yourselves..Go back and watch the fights..His shoulder starts off ok,then he stops throwing it and basically hangs by his side the rest of the way..It happened against Byrd,Toney,and in the first Moorer fight..I don't see how ya don't notice something is wrong..

Also,we can talk shit about every guy Pac-man,Floyd,Harry Greb,Holyfield,and Chris Byrd has fought then too at higher weight classes..Holy started as a LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT,remember??I think ya forgot..Pac-man was a strawweight who has beaten a welterweight and jr. welterweight..Chris Byrd started at 169 and at one point was the best heavyweight holding his one belt longer than any other heavyweight champ at that time after Lennox left..Chris Byrd was a way better heavyweight than Toney too..He was beating guys weighing 280 and he'd sometimes come in below 200 lbs..He struggled to be a heavyweight..


Understood Jonny that Holy started at Light Heavyweight but he campaigned at HW for a long time and I consider him a 'genuine' HW (although Victor Conte and Balco may disagree with me LOL).

You're still not answering my question dude and it's not about Pac, or Chris Byrd or Harry Greb.

Have you ever seen anyone do that to Holyfiled in a ring before or SINCE?

And as you say Holy went on to fight legit HW's Oquendo and Valuev. Many fighters have fougt with injuries and I don't doubt the veracity of what you say, but it's one thing for an opponent to know a guy has a weakness it is a totally different thing for him to dismantle an opponent the way James did that night.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ May 28 2009, 03:47 PM) *
Understood Jonny that Holy started at Light Heavyweight but he campaigned at HW for a long time and I consider him a 'genuine' HW (although Victor Conte and Balco may disagree with me LOL).

You're still not answering my question dude and it's not about Pac, or Chris Byrd or Harry Greb.

Have you ever seen anyone do that to Holyfiled in a ring before or SINCE?

And as you say Holy went on to fight legit HW's Oquendo and Valuev. Many fighters have fougt with injuries and I don't doubt the veracity of what you say, but it's one thing for an opponent to know a guy has a weakness it is a totally different thing for him to dismantle an opponent the way James did that night.

Chris Byrd and even M Moorer put whoopings on Holyfield too..Toney stopped him but do you really think nothing was wrong with him??Bowe has put Holyfield close to death in the first fight and he went on and finished the fight..Bowe hit a hell of a lot harder than Toney..If you can't raise your arm to block someones straight right or jab,you're in major trouble..Toney did stop him though..He was landing his straight right which is one of his best punches over and over again..Yeah,Holy went on to fight guys like Fres but during the gap between I think it was Donald and Bates,he was resting his shoulder to allow him to use it again..He took 2 years off cause his shoulder was so bad..Lennox 2 was his last great fight..It was sweet to see him come back though after the injury and KO Bates and the baseball player Maddalone..

In my opinion Holy's legit losses were to Bowe and he should have lost the first Lennox fight..Also,the Ibragimov fight but he was real old in that fight..When I say legit losses,I mean Holy was able to be himself and was healthy..The judges went easy on him in the first Lennox fight and therefore robbed him in the second fight..Holy and Lennox should have been 1-1..
JLUVBABY
riddick bowe beat holyfield quicker and better than toney.... put him dam near to sleep...
King Eugene
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ May 28 2009, 09:38 PM) *
riddick bowe beat holyfield quicker and better than toney.... put him dam near to sleep...

Riddick had Holy on queer street!
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ May 28 2009, 09:38 PM) *
riddick bowe beat holyfield quicker and better than toney.... put him dam near to sleep...


And Bowe was in his PRIME at the time too. Bowe was also a big natural talented top heavyweight.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ May 28 2009, 08:46 PM) *
And Bowe was in his PRIME at the time too. Bowe was also a big natural talented top heavyweight.

Yeah,and he was fighting a guy who was a light heavyweight/cruiserweight..Holy was naturally a cruiserweight but forced himself on the heavyweight division to show everyone he would own Tyson and he did that..Yet,when they were orginally supposed to fight Tyson got locked up..Bowe did have Holy fazed after all the big shots taken..Holyfield also knocked Bowe down too in the third fight..Holyfield was the first guy to ever put him down..Holyfield said he had hepatitis A in this fight which is why he drained out..If he did have it,it's a shame cause that fight was amazing and would have been even better had it gone longer..It was a sweet fight anyway though..


So should we say Mike Tyson,Riddick Bowe,and Mercer lost to a light heavyweight??YUP!!!If we're saying that Toney is a middleweight than Holy is a lightheavyweight..Ya can't argue that shit but I know some of you will try..Hell,Riddick Bowe and Mercer were both knocked down for the first time in their careers by a light heavyweight..Tyson got knocked out by one too..
Fitz
Holyfield was a heavyweight, Toney was not a middleweight then, but shouldn't have been a heavyweight either.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Fitz @ May 28 2009, 11:08 PM) *
Holyfield was a heavyweight, Toney was not a middleweight then, but shouldn't have been a heavyweight either.

Toney couldn't make weight anymore..He always had weight problems and what can ya say??He lives/loves to eat..Should he of fought at heavyweight??No cause then he felt he could completely let himself go in weight..In this interview he even talks about it.."Hot dogs,pizza,ect"..Holyfield became a heavyweight,he was not a natural heavyweight till later in his career..His first heavyweight fight he was 202 lbs..In the first Riddick Bowe fight he was 205 lbs..He was 5 lbs over cruiserweight fighting a guy who weighed 235..Toney and Holy were basically the same weight when they fought..Holyfield was always the role of Dave slaying golith..Holyfield 208--George Foreman 258..Also,in my opinion this was the best version of Foreman..Yeah,he didn't look to be in fighting shape but he was stronger mentally and was a hell of a lot smarter in the ring with Archie Moore in his corner working with him..He had Archie way back in his prime days for a little bit but Archie really didn't get through to him till his comeback..

Toney interview
Fitz
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 29 2009, 02:32 PM) *
Toney couldn't make weight anymore..He always had weight problems and what can ya say??He lives/loves to eat..Should he of fought at heavyweight??No cause then he felt he could completely let himself go in weight..In this interview he even talks about it.."Hot dogs,pizza,ect"..Holyfield became a heavyweight,he was not a natural heavyweight till later in his career..His first heavyweight fight he was 202 lbs..In the first Riddick Bowe fight he was 205 lbs..He was 5 lbs over cruiserweight fighting a guy who weighed 235..Toney and Holy were basically the same weight when they fought..Holyfield was always the role of Dave slaying golith..Holyfield 208--George Foreman 258..Also,in my opinion this was the best version of Foreman..Yeah,he didn't look to be in fighting shape but he was stronger mentally and was a hell of a lot smarter in the ring with Archie Moore in his corner working with him..He had Archie way back in his prime days for a little bit but Archie really didn't get through to him till his comeback..

Toney interview


Holy and Toney may have been similar in weight, but one guy was full of muscle, the other guy was full of fat. You are missing the point, Toney was a heavyweight because he was fat and lazy. Holyfield became a heavyweight. Toney should never have been a heavyweight, but was because of laziness, Holyfield wasn't in this case so to me Toney is not a natural heavyweight, Holyfield became a heavyweight.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ May 29 2009, 12:58 AM) *
Holy and Toney may have been similar in weight, but one guy was full of muscle, the other guy was full of fat. You are missing the point, Toney was a heavyweight because he was fat and lazy. Holyfield became a heavyweight. Toney should never have been a heavyweight, but was because of laziness, Holyfield wasn't in this case so to me Toney is not a natural heavyweight, Holyfield became a heavyweight.


Good post, except the fact you call Toney fat and lazy. He's big boned. laugh.gif
King Eugene
Plain and simple, Roy beat Toney, Toney beat Holy, so morally Roy beat Holyfield too. LMAO
King Eugene
http://www.boxingscene.com/index.php?m=show&id=20142

Dawson says he's no puppet. LOL
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Fitz @ May 28 2009, 11:58 PM) *
Holy and Toney may have been similar in weight, but one guy was full of muscle, the other guy was full of fat. You are missing the point, Toney was a heavyweight because he was fat and lazy. Holyfield became a heavyweight. Toney should never have been a heavyweight, but was because of laziness, Holyfield wasn't in this case so to me Toney is not a natural heavyweight, Holyfield became a heavyweight.

How'd I miss the point when that's basically what I said..Holy forced himself into the heavyweight division,so yes,he became a legit heavyweight..Weights helped add on weight for Holy..Toney ate his way into the division which is why I brought up the pizza and hot dogs..How did I miss the point when we both made the same kinda point??
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (3King3 @ May 29 2009, 12:26 AM) *
Plain and simple, Roy beat Toney, Toney beat Holy, so morally Roy beat Holyfield too. LMAO

Tarver and beat Roy twice,Dawson beat Tarver twice,so morally Dawson would beat Roy twice too..hahaha..Like that??
The Original MrFactor
I thought the 1st was damn close. I gave it to Dawson 115-113. However, I found myslef yelling at the screen, pulling for Johnson to stop him or at least knock him down. Johnson is an ATG opponent. Not an elite, but definatley deserves honorable mention in the HOF. You know you'll always have a fight on your hands if you are fighting Johnson.

In the rematch, I expect Johnson to take some risks earlier and maybe catch Chad this time.

For some of you older heads... How would Johnson vs Mike McCallum have looked. I'm talking about the McCallum that fought James Toney the 1st time.
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