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traced4040

let me just say that i actually hate PBF

hate it when he says he's the best without actually fighting the best

but i do think he is one of the smartest men in the bxing (probs not true but does have smart advisors)

i think he did the best thing by retiring

if he had fought on he would have been exposed as a fraud

after DLH and Hatton he would have had to headline a fight

lets face it, PBF couldnt attract flies to shit. if that was to happen you can bet that even if he won, no way would HBO put up a decent purse for the next fight when the fight woulda have done 600k PPV at best .

also unlike DLH or Hatton the next likely opponent (cotto/mosley/margarito) were in their prime and genuine welterweights

take into accont their relatively small following and all of a sudden its a no win situation for PBF

in the time he's been out cotto mosley and margarito grew a following

more importantly they beat each other giving PBF a built-in excuse of why he shouldnt have to fight any one of them

also along comes pacquiao who is small enuff for PBF to have confidence in beating and best of all marquez who gave pac his hardest fights calls him out

a flyweight with credit callin him out - oh happy days for PBF

he then makes a beeline for Don King and suddenly GB drops its pants to sign him

this guy is either extremely lucky or patient or smart........

i change my mind he just got lucky
Romulus9
He's barely the smartest man named Floyd Mayweather in boxing.

That's not saying much.

Smartest man in boxing? He doesn't crack the top 500.
Keith
pbf is a great boxer. he is smart enough to realize that the only reason he is "it" right now is that 0. although skilled, he is not an exciting boxer. quick, name a great floyd fight. the first castillo fight? that was but it happened a long time ago. thats the only one imo. people dont tune it because he produces great fights. they tune in because of the 0. he is smart enough to keep that 0 by fighting tier 2 fighters. I believe that as soon as the 0 disapears, floyd will be just another name in the fight game. the thing is, will he ever lose the 0?
Box in Hand
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 5 2009, 08:30 PM) *
pbf is a great boxer. he is smart enough to realize that the only reason he is "it" right now is that 0. although skilled, he is not an exciting boxer. quick, name a great floyd fight. the first castillo fight? that was but it happened a long time ago. thats the only one imo. people dont tune it because he produces great fights. they tune in because of the 0. he is smart enough to keep that 0 by fighting tier 2 fighters. I believe that as soon as the 0 disapears, floyd will be just another name in the fight game. the thing is, will he ever lose the 0?



1. Chavez (This is the fight that let me know he would beat Hatton, he broke the pressure fighter down)
2. Corley (Corley is no push over, watch as Floyd goes toe to toe and dismantles him)
3. Corrales (Made the great Chico look like a zombie)
4. Gatti (For the sheer violence)
provo
Ca mon! Hate him or love him he's smart, and one of the best in our generation the man has got skills he can pick anyone apart "remember sport is boxing' stick and move and that's what he does best! And if he wouldn't have retired and fought cotto people would have been like "well cotto is still young" Marga-cheto people would have been like well who has he beat? And seriously besides cotto,who has he beat ??, mayweather will never get respect because of his shit talking "but remember the man is a entertainer as well , like he says there's always a bad guy and a good guy and fuck it all be the bad guy"
And now people are hating that he's fight JMM, why ? He's the number 2 fighter in boxing and already has said he'll fight pac,who is number 1..the man is coming back to take the top 2 out of the game , and he'll do it.... "THERE'S ONLY 1 MAYWEATHER "

OH YEAH FUCK SHANE MOSLEY...LOL
Box in Hand
QUOTE (provo @ Jun 5 2009, 10:14 PM) *
Ca mon! Hate him or love him he's smart, and one of the best in our generation the man has got skills he can pick anyone apart "remember sport is boxing' stick and move and that's what he does best! And if he wouldn't have retired and fought cotto people would have been like "well cotto is still young" Marga-cheto people would have been like well who has he beat? And seriously besides cotto,who has he beat ??, mayweather will never get respect because of his shit talking "but remember the man is a entertainer as well , like he says there's always a bad guy and a good guy and fuck it all be the bad guy"
And now people are hating that he's fight JMM, why ? He's the number 2 fighter in boxing and already has said he'll fight pac,who is number 1..the man is coming back to take the top 2 out of the game , and he'll do it.... "THERE'S ONLY 1 MAYWEATHER "

OH YEAH FUCK SHANE MOSLEY...LOL



I think you make more sense than most people. I was always taught the object of boxing is to give punishment without taking it. Fans want blood and guts but that shortens a fighters career by years. Fighters shouldn't be old at 35 but they are because of the punishment. Castillo and Corrales gave us the greatest fight in history only to become mirrors of themselves after that. Floyd is an asshole with a big mouth and an no fucking class what so ever. "But", that motherfucker can flat out fight. How many people have seen his entire fight portfolio? That guy does shit in the ring that no one does any more. How is it, that he is able to beat people with the Philly shell? It's because people don't know how to penetrate it. He wins with superior foot work, angles, and speed. I don't care if no one agrees with me but if I had to build a fighter I'm taking Sugar Ray Robinson and if I can get him I making a Floyd, minus the wack ass attitude.
provo
Ok I agree he can be a asshole , but seiously ,there fighters , why be nice to someone else who wants to kick your ass? Mayweather beats his opponents before he even steps in the ring with them,that's why he talks shit , make the other fighter loose their focus and try and hurt u ,and sit back and counter all night ,like he always does...
provo
Traced4040 sit back and have a beer and think! Before you start posting...lol...
Keith
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Jun 5 2009, 10:59 PM) *
1. Chavez (This is the fight that let me know he would beat Hatton, he broke the pressure fighter down)
2. Corley (Corley is no push over, watch as Floyd goes toe to toe and dismantles him)
3. Corrales (Made the great Chico look like a zombie)
4. Gatti (For the sheer violence)

i dont think they were great fights. they were great performances on floyds part. i mean the corrales fight? you think that was a great fight? how can it be a great fight when one guy doesnt land a single significant punch. that is a tremendous performance on floyds part but that does not qualify as a great fight. i feel the same about the others. maybe the gatti fight was exciting to watch because i loved watching that guy take a beating. club fighter. so even if what you say is true, mayweather has not had a great fight since 2005. and before his fight with gatti, pbf floyd described him as a c+ fighter, a fake, and a blown up club fighter. pbf destroyed him. so how can that be classified as a great fight? all times greats do not fight c+ fighters. this example proves that floyd seeks out the opponents that can add to the 0.
WolfishPromistah
Yeah, keith, but "by" Floyd, against what Box in Hand (by the way, please add my name too) is not forgetting to point out as tough opponents. Floyd whipped 'em all! And he wasn't thought just to blast any single one of the guys out of there, but totally dominated each and every single one -- "great performances" that "made those fights," unquestionably.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (WolfishPromistah @ Jun 6 2009, 08:07 AM) *
Yeah, keith, but "by" Floyd, against what Box in Hand (by the way, please add my name too) is not forgetting to point out as tough opponents. Floyd whipped 'em all! And he wasn't thought just to blast any single one of the guys out of there, but totally dominated each and every single one -- "great performances" that "made those fights," unquestionably.


Ok so he beat Corrales who was one moment away froma Mccall like meltdown due to all the shit going down in his life at the time. No way should that guy have been getting in a ring. I would still pick PBF over a focused Chico but not that easy.

Corley was a goodish fighter and no more.

Gatti-club level rubbish as PBF himself had stated. He absolutely SHOULD have crushed gatti and did.

Of course he was always gonna beat Hatton at 147, Ricky had already lost there (in most people's opnions) to the much less talented Luis Collazo.

Gee what achievements.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Jun 6 2009, 03:59 AM) *
2. Corley (Corley is no push over, watch as Floyd goes toe to toe and dismantles him)


You serious? The guy was coming off a loss & had beaten no one of any signifigance whatsoever. No push over indeed laugh.gif . You Floyd cum junkies must be smoking some seriously good herb to come out with this shit.
Keith
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 6 2009, 09:38 AM) *
You serious? The guy was coming off a loss & had beaten no one of any signifigance whatsoever. No push over indeed laugh.gif . You Floyd cum junkies must be smoking some seriously good herb to come out with this shit.
"
i was thinking the same thing. my first thought was "who the fuck is corley?". i had to look it up. it was so dumb i had to leave it alone. i admit i never saw the fight. but i cant believe we had a demarcus corley reference on here to prove how great pbf is. lmao.
Sugar Q
Aside from all the personality BS that shouldn't even be mentioned when discussing a fighter's skill level. I would say that Floyd aint the greatest to lace'em up but right now he's the smartest to ever lace'em up. That's right smarter than Ali, Ray Robinson, Leonard, etc. Fighting isn't just about getting in the ring it's also about knowing who to engage and when. It's about hitting and not getting hit and it's about outwitting your opponent which Floyd has mastered. It's also about not letting anyone or anything take you out of your game plan which people have consistently tried to do to Floyd. Margarito was a hype job that Arum sold and many fell for but Floyd side stepped that BS and fought the linear guy which beating Margarito would've still made him have to do. Now people wanna force a Mosley fight that would technically put PBF at #5 P4P but again Floyd is smart enough to take the perfectly timed leap over Mosley to the #2 arguably #1 guy. Doesn't matter what anyone says or thinks I'll take those moves with the 0 over any other fighter in the game right now without even blinking perhaps over any other fighter ever to lace'em up.
JLUVBABY
truth is floyd is a very good fighter.. border line great and as much of a fan i am of his i will go on record of saying tha he needs to fight and beat a few of the 147 lbers. to cement his legacy... i dont blame the floyd haters for the most part because they make great points.. he moved up to 147 he should be fighting the full fledge welters.. i can understand that... but that being said the same thing should go for pac... he has moved up and fought at 147 and looked good so he should be able to fight the elite at 147 as well... regardless of the fact that he started at 108.... he's been there so he should be fighting the same guys the floyd haters want floyd to fight.. sumthin tells me neither one of those guys will fight them all and if they did flod would have the better chance of running through the group than pac... just saying there seems to be a lot of floyd hate but lets not create a double standard..
Keith
we can discuss this from now until the end of time. i repeat, floyd is a great boxer. i like to use the example of thomas hearns. i dont think anyone would argue that hearns was a great fighter. hall of famer. highly skilled and feared by his opponents. he lost the 2 biggest fights of his career. ko'd in both. but they were awesome fights against other awesome fighters. legendary in fact. even in defeat he elevated his status as a boxer. nobody holds those loses against him. floyd doesnt get it.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 6 2009, 01:34 PM) *
we can discuss this from now until the end of time. i repeat, floyd is a great boxer. i like to use the example of thomas hearns. i dont think anyone would argue that hearns was a great fighter. hall of famer. highly skilled and feared by his opponents. he lost the 2 biggest fights of his career. ko'd in both. but they were awesome fights against other awesome fighters. legendary in fact. even in defeat he elevated his status as a boxer. nobody holds those loses against him. floyd doesnt get it.



Fighter's from the past put it on the line way more than PBF has in many years. In Floyds mind, he thinks he already has his legacy cemented, which he clearly has not. There were and are many top fighters he could fight to do that though. And I will wait and see his plans after he is done toying with JMM. His welterweight reign has been very mediocre, as far as quality goes. Just maybe Floyd has big plans after JMM, and starts looking for the bigger and better welterweights that could elevate his status as an ATG. I am clearly not a fan of his, but I sure respect his abilities in the ring. I sure hope he challenges himself in his next couple of fights, and if he would lose, so fucking what? I would give him a ton more respect than cherry picking opponents and getting wins. And I am not just going off of JMM, I am talking about his welterweight reign. Also, I am glad he's back, he generates alot of interest in the sport and adds even more excitement to the WW division.

Shit... I hate Calzaghe, but I wish he would come back too. I thought that in his prime still, he had a couple of challenges out there that I would have loved to see him tested more.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 6 2009, 10:58 AM) *
Margarito was a hype job that Arum sold and many fell for but Floyd side stepped that BS and fought the linear guy which beating Margarito would've still made him have to do. Now people wanna force a Mosley fight that would technically put PBF at #5 P4P but again Floyd is smart enough to take the perfectly timed leap over Mosley to the #2 arguably #1 guy. Doesn't matter what anyone says or thinks I'll take those moves with the 0 over any other fighter in the game right now without even blinking perhaps over any other fighter ever to lace'em up.

This has been mentioned in a different thread but by side-stepping the Margarito hype job Floyd also turned down a career-high payday. He could have fought Margarito AND Baldomir for double the money that he made fighting just Baldomir. Maybe even more, since who knows whether beating Margo would have earned him more $ to fight Baldy.

I'm sure it's also been said, but regardless of their p4p standings, Mosley is universally seen as the tougher fight for Floyd than JMM is. Bottom line, Floyd ain't getting more p4p props for beating a guy two weight divisions below him. Only the biggest PBF nut huggers could argue different.

Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Jun 5 2009, 10:23 PM) *
I was always taught the object of boxing is to give punishment without taking it.

If PBF fought every fight the way he did against Chico and Gatti, I have no doubt in my mind he would be more popular. Those are fights where he dished out punishment without taking it. I don't think you could really say PBF punished Oscar or Baldy. He did what he had to do to preserve his zero.

WolfishPromistah
But then too Floyd never claimed he wouldn't meet these guys at 147 some said he wouldn't, and whom some still believe he won't. But he "may or may not" face them all; still, the fact is if the fights don't happen, Floyd will arguably not be the one to blame, as in any of the other fights that have not gone down between him and some others. However, he's made his thing out of fighting guys "at the right time," which is not exactly objectionable in my book. He, for one, was looking for Margarito to beat Shane (didn't happen), yet he still came back after Shane won in devastating fashion.

I suspect that had Margarito won against Mosely, having already beaten Cotto too, Floyd would have come back to try to meet him down the line, as he told him they'd likely meet later on anyway(before he retired, when Margarito went up to him and asked him to fight) but only "when the money was right" and there was bigger advantage for the BOTH of them. Yes, I have leaned with Floyd over the years most times, having patience with him as I have implied at least that maybe others should -- when the time is right, we'll see the fights.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Jun 6 2009, 02:12 PM) *
This has been mentioned in a different thread but by side-stepping the Margarito hype job Floyd also turned down a career-high payday. He could have fought Margarito AND Baldomir for double the money that he made fighting just Baldomir. Maybe even more, since who knows whether beating Margo would have earned him more $ to fight Baldy.

I'm sure it's also been said, but regardless of their p4p standings, Mosley is universally seen as the tougher fight for Floyd than JMM is. Bottom line, Floyd ain't getting more p4p props for beating a guy two weight divisions below him. Only the biggest PBF nut huggers could argue different.


The thing I don't get about all the ducking and cherry picking theories is Floyd only turned down 1 fighter and that was Margarito and just like Arum is standing in the way of Pacquiao/PBF, stood in the way of Cotto/PBF and countless other great fights, with their history isn't it intelligent to believe that Arum was among the reasons the Margarito fight never happened? Mosley may be seen as tougher but Mosley is also seen as the man with the toothache. Chagaev may lose to Klitschko but Shane has a lot to learn from him about seizing the opportunity and on less than 30 days notice.
Box in Hand
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 6 2009, 08:38 AM) *
You serious? The guy was coming off a loss & had beaten no one of any signifigance whatsoever. No push over indeed laugh.gif . You Floyd cum junkies must be smoking some seriously good herb to come out with this shit.



Cum Junkie? Go fight a shark.
Box in Hand
Here's my thing and you can agree or not. Floyd is a major asshole (I've said this already) so I'm not nut riding. My point is, the motherfucker can fight and that is obvious. He is brilliant in that ring and if he had a personality like Mosely or Pac maybe some of you hating would change tone. See, I can hate a person and absolutely respect his work. I don't like De la Hoya but that dude had boxing on his back for years and he deserves that repect.
gbh32001
I still think Floyd is overrated. If he will win against Mosley and Pacman I will give him respect.But until now, he is still overrated to me and a big time fraud/conman. Don't bring in Cotto and Paul Williams.Cotto is too slow, Manny and Floyd will defeat this puerto Rican. Paul Williams?too big for a welterweight he have no room for Floyd division.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 6 2009, 03:29 PM) *
The thing I don't get about all the ducking and cherry picking theories is Floyd only turned down 1 fighter and that was Margarito and just like Arum is standing in the way of Pacquiao/PBF, stood in the way of Cotto/PBF and countless other great fights, with their history isn't it intelligent to believe that Arum was among the reasons the Margarito fight never happened? Mosley may be seen as tougher but Mosley is also seen as the man with the toothache. Chagaev may lose to Klitschko but Shane has a lot to learn from him about seizing the opportunity and on less than 30 days notice.


Fuck Sugar will you quit with this toothache bullshit. I don't know how many times on these boards that one has been shot down in flames, by Shane's soon-to-be ex wife no less.

Here's the thing, you go on and on and on (and on) about PBF being a great businessman and he is right to take fights based on money first. Fine. Then tell me this. How DUMB would've have been for Shane as a PARTNER of Golden Boy to take the fight with PBF and risk beating him thus making the PBF/Goldie showdown a lot less lucrative.

Pretty fucking dumb if you ask me. Anyone with half a brain knew that part time fighter Goldie had virtually zero chance of beating Floyd but that it would make the biggest bucks out there. Although I favour PBF over Shane I sure give Sugar a hell of a better shot than Goldie of pulling the upset. Better to keep that fight for after the mammoth PBF/Goldie production. Plus it becomes a better sell if both Shane and PBF have Goldie as a common scalp.

And here's the other point, PBF KNEW he could call out Shane and that Shane's hands were tied as a partner of Golden Boy and that Oscar was ALWAYS gonna get first dibs at Floyd. That was a 'safe' call out and you know it.

Quit this fairytale nonsense you spouting, everyone had their business hats on over this one.
gbh32001
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Jun 7 2009, 01:40 PM) *
Fuck Sugar will you quit with this toothache bullshit. I don't know how many times on these boards that one has been shot down in flames, by Shane's soon-to-be ex wife no less.

Here's the thing, you go on and on and on (and on) about PBF being a great businessman and he is right to take fights based on money first. Fine. Then tell me this. How DUMB would've have been for Shane as a PARTNER of Golden Boy to take the fight with PBF and risk beating him thus making the PBF/Goldie showdown a lot less lucrative.

Pretty fucking dumb if you ask me. Anyone with half a brain knew that part time fighter Goldie had virtually zero chance of beating Floyd but that it would make the biggest bucks out there. Although I favour PBF over Shane I sure give Sugar a hell of a better shot than Goldie of pulling the upset. Better to keep that fight for after the mammoth PBF/Goldie production. Plus it becomes a better sell if both Shane and PBF have Goldie as a common scalp.

And here's the other point, PBF KNEW he could call out Shane and that Shane's hands were tied as a partner of Golden Boy and that Oscar was ALWAYS gonna get first dibs at Floyd. That was a 'safe' call out and you know it.

Quit this fairytale nonsense you spouting, everyone had their business hats on over this one.
If you gave Sugar a hell of a better shot than Oscar then definitely Sugar will win by a UD against PBF based on Oscar-PBF scoring. Fraud know this one, that's why there is no way he can take the fight against Mosley because he know the risk. PBF is a smart business man, if it were not so, he did not leave the sport for hiding.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Jun 7 2009, 01:40 AM) *
Fuck Sugar will you quit with this toothache bullshit. I don't know how many times on these boards that one has been shot down in flames, by Shane's soon-to-be ex wife no less.

Here's the thing, you go on and on and on (and on) about PBF being a great businessman and he is right to take fights based on money first. Fine. Then tell me this. How DUMB would've have been for Shane as a PARTNER of Golden Boy to take the fight with PBF and risk beating him thus making the PBF/Goldie showdown a lot less lucrative.

Pretty fucking dumb if you ask me. Anyone with half a brain knew that part time fighter Goldie had virtually zero chance of beating Floyd but that it would make the biggest bucks out there. Although I favour PBF over Shane I sure give Sugar a hell of a better shot than Goldie of pulling the upset. Better to keep that fight for after the mammoth PBF/Goldie production. Plus it becomes a better sell if both Shane and PBF have Goldie as a common scalp.

And here's the other point, PBF KNEW he could call out Shane and that Shane's hands were tied as a partner of Golden Boy and that Oscar was ALWAYS gonna get first dibs at Floyd. That was a 'safe' call out and you know it.

Quit this fairytale nonsense you spouting, everyone had their business hats on over this one.



Here's the real point. Floyd has been calling Shane out since they were at 130-135. I'm a big fan of both guys, started out as more of a fan of Shane's. I've heard PBF call Shane out with my own ears at least 3 times to no avail. The Golden Boy BS is BS. It wasn't even a given that the Oscar fight would happen. So everybody suppose to believe this BS about Shane and Oscar being able to beat a man that had never been beaten? The P4P best? So Oscar said, no Shane step aside let me beat him first, LOL! Please with the BULLSHIT!!!!! Floyd called Shane out cause he knows he's quicker and smarter in the ring. I use to think Shane would be his toughest fight but after watching Shane through the years I see what Mayweather sees and I believe PBF will be too much for Shane possibly stopping him from an accumulation of shots. If Cotto can outbox Shane what does anyone think PBF will do? I know Shane has never been stopped but constant peppering will do it. Don't get me wrong Shane's a tough dude but Floyd is on another level.
Keith
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 7 2009, 11:22 AM) *
Here's the real point. Floyd has been calling Shane out since they were at 130-135. I'm a big fan of both guys, started out as more of a fan of Shane's. I've heard PBF call Shane out with my own ears at least 3 times to no avail. The Golden Boy BS is BS. It wasn't even a given that the Oscar fight would happen. So everybody suppose to believe this BS about Shane and Oscar being able to beat a man that had never been beaten? The P4P best? So Oscar said, no Shane step aside let me beat him first, LOL! Please with the BULLSHIT!!!!! Floyd called Shane out cause he knows he's quicker and smarter in the ring. I use to think Shane would be his toughest fight but after watching Shane through the years I see what Mayweather sees and I believe PBF will be too much for Shane possibly stopping him from an accumulation of shots. If Cotto can outbox Shane what does anyone think PBF will do? I know Shane has never been stopped but constant peppering will do it. Don't get me wrong Shane's a tough dude but Floyd is on another level.

so are you saying shane will never land his big right hand or his crushing left hook? i agree that constant peppering can break a fighter down as floyd as proven over and over again but... shane only needs a few punches to change a fight. and his hand speed is close to floyds. so as pbf is peppering he will get hit with hard shots. the only fighter pbf has faced in recent years with similar hand speed is judah, and judah landed on floyd during the first half of their fight. problem was judah broke down like he always does. shane will not break down like that, and he hits harder thean judah. it will be a great fight, and i hope we see it.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Jun 6 2009, 05:42 PM) *
Here's my thing and you can agree or not. Floyd is a major asshole (I've said this already) so I'm not nut riding. My point is, the motherfucker can fight and that is obvious. He is brilliant in that ring and if he had a personality like Mosely or Pac maybe some of you hating would change tone. See, I can hate a person and absolutely respect his work. I don't like De la Hoya but that dude had boxing on his back for years and he deserves that repect.

I respect Floyd as a fighter but hate his personality and think he takes the coward's way out. He's a fucking cunt. Great fighter though. If he wasn't, I wouldn't care.
Keith
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 7 2009, 11:22 AM) *
Here's the real point. Floyd has been calling Shane out since they were at 130-135. I'm a big fan of both guys, started out as more of a fan of Shane's. I've heard PBF call Shane out with my own ears at least 3 times to no avail. The Golden Boy BS is BS. It wasn't even a given that the Oscar fight would happen. So everybody suppose to believe this BS about Shane and Oscar being able to beat a man that had never been beaten? The P4P best? So Oscar said, no Shane step aside let me beat him first, LOL! Please with the BULLSHIT!!!!! Floyd called Shane out cause he knows he's quicker and smarter in the ring. I use to think Shane would be his toughest fight but after watching Shane through the years I see what Mayweather sees and I believe PBF will be too much for Shane possibly stopping him from an accumulation of shots. If Cotto can outbox Shane what does anyone think PBF will do? I know Shane has never been stopped but constant peppering will do it. Don't get me wrong Shane's a tough dude but Floyd is on another level.

and furthermore, floyd couldnt take out dlh. are we saying dlh is a better fighter then shane at this point? and it took him 9 rounds to take out hatton. shane is better in every single way then hatton. i admit, i can see floyd winning a fight with shane, but if its going to end in a ko, it wont be shane looking up at the lights.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 7 2009, 11:22 AM) *
Here's the real point. Floyd has been calling Shane out since they were at 130-135. I'm a big fan of both guys, started out as more of a fan of Shane's. I've heard PBF call Shane out with my own ears at least 3 times to no avail. The Golden Boy BS is BS. It wasn't even a given that the Oscar fight would happen. So everybody suppose to believe this BS about Shane and Oscar being able to beat a man that had never been beaten? The P4P best? So Oscar said, no Shane step aside let me beat him first, LOL! Please with the BULLSHIT!!!!! Floyd called Shane out cause he knows he's quicker and smarter in the ring. I use to think Shane would be his toughest fight but after watching Shane through the years I see what Mayweather sees and I believe PBF will be too much for Shane possibly stopping him from an accumulation of shots. If Cotto can outbox Shane what does anyone think PBF will do? I know Shane has never been stopped but constant peppering will do it. Don't get me wrong Shane's a tough dude but Floyd is on another level.


No Oscar didn't say step aside let me beat him, he said step aside my fight with him, it will be a MUCH bigger fight, and Shane as a businessman obviously agreed.

Don't try and tell me the Oscar fight wasn't a done deal. Sure there might have been the usual B.S posturing that went with it but both fighters ODLH and PBF could see that their fight would generate by FAR the biggest purses of their careers.

As well you mention that PBF called out Shane at 135 when Shane had the option of going up to fight ODLH which was again by FAR the bigger money fight for him. Sugar you constantly defend PBF for his business first tactics then you'll have to concede that other fighters do the same. So why the problem with Shane not fighting PBF at 135 when he could go and fight Oscar at a higher weight for more bucks and greater career exposure.

Right business move yeah?

Sugar Q
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Jun 7 2009, 03:49 PM) *
No Oscar didn't say step aside let me beat him, he said step aside my fight with him, it will be a MUCH bigger fight, and Shane as a businessman obviously agreed.

Don't try and tell me the Oscar fight wasn't a done deal. Sure there might have been the usual B.S posturing that went with it but both fighters ODLH and PBF could see that their fight would generate by FAR the biggest purses of their careers.

As well you mention that PBF called out Shane at 135 when Shane had the option of going up to fight ODLH which was again by FAR the bigger money fight for him. Sugar you constantly defend PBF for his business first tactics then you'll have to concede that other fighters do the same. So why the problem with Shane not fighting PBF at 135 when he could go and fight Oscar at a higher weight for more bucks and greater career exposure.

Right business move yeah?


My point exactly. If Shane can do whats best for him why can't Floyd? Shane calling out Floyd is the same as Williams calling out Shane. So Shane calling out Floyd should have no more merit than Floyd calling him out since they were at the lower weights. I just think the people on the Shane bandwagon are full of shit. Where were they when PBF called Shane out and if it's all about options then why not chill and see what happens because Marquez is the better option right now. It's funny, if PBF thought fighting Shane would've jeopardized a fight with Oscar he wouldn't have called him out.
traced4040
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 7 2009, 05:16 PM) *
My point exactly. If Shane can do whats best for him why can't Floyd? Shane calling out Floyd is the same as Williams calling out Shane. So Shane calling out Floyd should have no more merit than Floyd calling him out since they were at the lower weights. I just think the people on the Shane bandwagon are full of shit. Where were they when PBF called Shane out and if it's all about options then why not chill and see what happens because Marquez is the better option right now. It's funny, if PBF thought fighting Shane would've jeopardized a fight with Oscar he wouldn't have called him out.


im with sugar Q on this one.

i dont think PBF comes close to being the greatest because of the opposition he's faced but this happens because boxing is fundamentally flawed

promoters and fighters get away with putting on bogus fights

floyd is exploiting the system and he does it well

the truth is the only reason they continue to do so, is there is still money to be made from it. if there wasnt, they would stop

like i said, PBF cant keep cherry picking fighters because he doesnt have a big enough fanbase to attract the $$ he needs/wants without quality opposition.

so i guess its only a matter of time
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 7 2009, 05:16 PM) *
My point exactly. If Shane can do whats best for him why can't Floyd? Shane calling out Floyd is the same as Williams calling out Shane. So Shane calling out Floyd should have no more merit than Floyd calling him out since they were at the lower weights. I just think the people on the Shane bandwagon are full of shit. Where were they when PBF called Shane out and if it's all about options then why not chill and see what happens because Marquez is the better option right now. It's funny, if PBF thought fighting Shane would've jeopardized a fight with Oscar he wouldn't have called him out.


He called him out Sugar because he knew Shane had no intention of taking him up on it. That's WHY he called him out. Shane had also PUBLICLY stated before the Vargas fight that he was taking the rest of the year off. Geez I don't understand what is so hard to figure about this.

Did I say Shane calling out PBF had more merit than the other way around? Dude your argument is all over the place.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Jun 8 2009, 01:55 AM) *
He called him out Sugar because he knew Shane had no intention of taking him up on it. That's WHY he called him out. Shane had also PUBLICLY stated before the Vargas fight that he was taking the rest of the year off. Geez I don't understand what is so hard to figure about this.

Did I say Shane calling out PBF had more merit than the other way around? Dude your argument is all over the place.


Shane was struggling at 147 at that time and everyone was calling him out from Zab, Margarito, PBF, Williams, Clottey,etc. Floyd thought Shane was easy money that's why he called him out and during that time Shane didn't have any better options. Shane wasn't in the position to dictate to anyone. You don't turn down the P4P best especially when you're willing to fight for low purses. No argument my dude we're having a discussion.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 7 2009, 05:16 PM) *
My point exactly. If Shane can do whats best for him why can't Floyd? Shane calling out Floyd is the same as Williams calling out Shane. So Shane calling out Floyd should have no more merit than Floyd calling him out since they were at the lower weights. I just think the people on the Shane bandwagon are full of shit. Where were they when PBF called Shane out and if it's all about options then why not chill and see what happens because Marquez is the better option right now. It's funny, if PBF thought fighting Shane would've jeopardized a fight with Oscar he wouldn't have called him out.


heres the kicker.. floyd probably outboxes shane.. paul williams will beat the brakes off mosely... truth is shane knows he is at the end of his career and needs that big fight... he would have had leverage had he fought berto.. i will always say that..
Keith
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jun 8 2009, 08:06 PM) *
heres the kicker.. floyd probably outboxes shane.. paul williams will beat the brakes off mosely... truth is shane knows he is at the end of his career and needs that big fight... he would have had leverage had he fought berto.. i will always say that..

shane can't beat pbf, williams, and he already lost to cotto. i have also read on this forum from numerous people that pac dances circles around shane and wins big. duran, leonard, and sweet pea are all going to come out of retirement and take their turn beating shane too. lost in all this is the fact that shane is basically the recognized champ of one of the best divisions in boxing except... he cant beat anyone. lmao. also, only 1 fighter on the planet that can actually make 147 weight has beaten him. i dont know if shane can beat those guys but he certainly has a chance:

he hits harder then any other welterweight
power in both hands and works the body
his hand speed is above average
he has never faded in a fight
elite chin

in my opinion, thats a combination of skills that would give any fighter at 147 problems.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 8 2009, 08:51 PM) *
shane can't beat pbf, williams, and he already lost to cotto. i have also read on this forum from numerous people that pac dances circles around shane and wins big. duran, leonard, and sweet pea are all going to come out of retirement and take their turn beating shane too. lost in all this is the fact that shane is basically the recognized champ of one of the best divisions in boxing except... he cant beat anyone. lmao. also, only 1 fighter on the planet that can actually make 147 weight has beaten him. i dont know if shane can beat those guys but he certainly has a chance:

he hits harder then any other welterweight
power in both hands and works the body
his hand speed is above average
he has never faded in a fight
elite chin

in my opinion, thats a combination of skills that would give any fighter at 147 problems.



Don't get it twisted I'm not saying Shane is a cake walk. Shane beats everybody but PBF and Williams. If he fights Cotto the way he's capable he beats Cotto also in a rematch but if he goes in without sticking to a solid game plan he will lose again.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jun 8 2009, 07:06 PM) *
heres the kicker.. floyd probably outboxes shane.. paul williams will beat the brakes off mosely... truth is shane knows he is at the end of his career and needs that big fight... he would have had leverage had he fought berto.. i will always say that..

Man, beating Berto wouldn't have given Mosley any more leverage than he already has. Seriously, what would it have done for him besides awarded him another meaningless alphabet trinket he likely would have been forced immediately afterward to vacate anyway? He already beat up the top dog in the division in Margarito and became the recognized champ again. Beating a greenhorn like Berto that no one knows or thinks a whole lot about wouldn't have done a thing.

Not saying he shouldn't have fought him. I agree with you that he should have, just to put in the work. But the leverage Shane has now is all the leverage he's ever gonna have. Fact is he beat DLH twice and that didn't do much for him. It's just not in the cards for him to be a power player. He's a fighter's fighter and a fan favorite and the only thing he can do is try and wait these other top guys out until one of them has no better options than to come see him.
Keith
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Jun 8 2009, 11:30 PM) *
Man, beating Berto wouldn't have given Mosley any more leverage than he already has. Seriously, what would it have done for him besides awarded him another meaningless alphabet trinket he likely would have been forced immediately afterward to vacate anyway? He already beat up the top dog in the division in Margarito and became the recognized champ again. Beating a greenhorn like Berto that no one knows or thinks a whole lot about wouldn't have done a thing.

Not saying he shouldn't have fought him. I agree with you that he should have, just to put in the work. But the leverage Shane has now is all the leverage he's ever gonna have. Fact is he beat DLH twice and that didn't do much for him. It's just not in the cards for him to be a power player. He's a fighter's fighter and a fan favorite and the only thing he can do is try and wait these other top guys out until one of them has no better options than to come see him.

ya, i absolutely agree with your assessment. he reminds me of hagler. and this situation is similar to him waiting to fight leonard.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 9 2009, 07:02 AM) *
ya, i absolutely agree with your assessment. he reminds me of hagler. and this situation is similar to him waiting to fight leonard.



Shane's my dude but he aint no Hagler cause Hagler would've fought PBF a long time ago and definitely would take on Williams (you didn't call out Marvelous Marv). The only comparison I see is conditioning.
Keith
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 9 2009, 11:31 AM) *
Shane's my dude but he aint no Hagler cause Hagler would've fought PBF a long time ago and definitely would take on Williams (you didn't call out Marvelous Marv). The only comparison I see is conditioning.

i was not refering to fight styles or who they fought or attitude, etc. he reminds me of hagler in that towards the end of his career he really only wanted to fight leonard. he felt a need to fight leonard because he knew if they never fought it would always be a big "what if". except leonard always held all the cards and retired on him then came back when he felt like he had a good shot at beating hagler. shane really wants to fight pbf and its not just for the money. pbf retired, now he is back and he holds all the cards and he will wait until its the best time for him to fight shane. its very similar.

and other then pwill, who hasnt shane stepped up and fought through the years? any fighter with credentials that wanted to fight shane got their wish.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 9 2009, 11:49 AM) *
i was not refering to fight styles or who they fought or attitude, etc. he reminds me of hagler in that towards the end of his career he really only wanted to fight leonard. he felt a need to fight leonard because he knew if they never fought it would always be a big "what if". except leonard always held all the cards and retired on him then came back when he felt like he had a good shot at beating hagler. shane really wants to fight pbf and its not just for the money. pbf retired, now he is back and he holds all the cards and he will wait until its the best time for him to fight shane. its very similar.

and other then pwill, who hasnt shane stepped up and fought through the years? any fighter with credentials that wanted to fight shane got their wish.



Ok I feel you on that but the difference is Ray never intended on fighting Marv again. I think PBF wants to fight SHane also but on his terms not Shane's or anyone else's. The who Shane fought and didn't is debatable. Shane should've fought Oscar a 3rd time, could've fought Forrest again and contrary to what many think Shane never wanted any part of PBF now all of a sudden he's ready? Beating Margarito proved nothing but how much hype Margarito was. Check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_IGuj0C1hU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d45qL6nC_34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEHF5HX6Jb0

This was in July talking about a fight in November. EXCUSES, EXCUSES!!!!!!!!!
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 9 2009, 02:08 PM) *
Ok I feel you on that but the difference is Ray never intended on fighting Marv again. I think PBF wants to fight SHane also but on his terms not Shane's or anyone else's.

How is that different than Leonard-Hagler? SRL wanted to fight Hagler but strictly on his terms. The only possible difference here is PBF's acting like he doesn't want to face Shane at all.


QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 9 2009, 02:08 PM) *
The who Shane fought and didn't is debatable. Shane should've fought Oscar a 3rd time

So Shane was a pussy then for fighting Winky Wright instead?


QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 9 2009, 02:08 PM) *
Shane never wanted any part of PBF now all of a sudden he's ready?

Brought up to death and I don't even buy it. He went up in weight to fight DLH instead. That's hardly the same thing as not wanting any part of a guy. As for the youtube links, I dodn't watch but I'm assuming it's Shane's post-fight interview after the Vargas rematch judging by the dates you're listing and again, I don't buy it. The Oscar fight was unofficially official.

And again, what does this have to do with now anyway? If Floyd won't fight Shane now that has nothing to do with 1999 or 2006. That has to do with Floyd not wanting any part of Shane.


QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 9 2009, 02:08 PM) *
Beating Margarito proved nothing but how much hype Margarito was.

So now yo're totally discrediting his win over Margarito?

Wow man. You need to stop including in every PBF nuthugging post of yours the caveat that you're a fan of Mosley. You don't seem like a fan of Mosley's to me. You seem like a H.A.T.E.R.

Fuck PBF.
Mean Mister Mustard
Reasons why Mayweather won't fight either of these guys: Margarito sucks, Cotto sucks because Margarito beat him, Williams (Who? Call PBf when you're a CEO like him lol), Mosley never wanted to fight him so why fight him now? Seems perfectly reasonable doesn't it?
Sugar Q
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Jun 9 2009, 03:58 PM) *
!) How is that different than Leonard-Hagler? SRL wanted to fight Hagler but strictly on his terms. The only possible difference here is PBF's acting like he doesn't want to face Shane at all.

2) So Shane was a pussy then for fighting Winky Wright instead?


3) Brought up to death and I don't even buy it. He went up in weight to fight DLH instead. That's hardly the same thing as not wanting any part of a guy. As for the youtube links, I dodn't watch but I'm assuming it's Shane's post-fight interview after the Vargas rematch judging by the dates you're listing and again, I don't buy it. The Oscar fight was unofficially official.

4) And again, what does this have to do with now anyway? If Floyd won't fight Shane now that has nothing to do with 1999 or 2006. That has to do with Floyd not wanting any part of Shane.


5) So now yo're totally discrediting his win over Margarito?

Wow man. You need to stop including in every PBF nuthugging post of yours the caveat that you're a fan of Mosley. You don't seem like a fan of Mosley's to me. You seem like a H.A.T.E.R.

Fuck PBF.


1) My bad I skimmed thru thinking we were referring to Hagler/Leonard 2

2) No Shane was an idiot for choosing 4 mill to fight a much bigger risk rather than 12 for a guy he beat twice while knowing that the big risk would still be there for even bigger money afterwards.

3) The youtube links only show that PBF has been calling Shane out from 130-147 and it also shows Shane in July 06 making excuses for not wanting to fight in Nov 06 going as far as throwing Margarito out there. What does it sound like to you when the P4P best is calling you out and your making excuses while telling him to go fight someone else? Floyd told him boldly "I'll beat you then I'll beat your boss". Sounds like and out and out chump to me.

4) It has everything to do with now. First of all this would be behind all of us if Shane would've taken one of PBF's many offers and furthermore Shane is in no position to dictate. If you called a guy out numerous times and he turned you down you would make him wait too or you would never fight him unless there was an offer you couldn't refuse.

5) I'm a huge Shane fan but I always said Margarito was overrated. Shane did what he had to do and very impressively can't take that away from him but Margarito was overrated.

Just because I'm a fan doesn't mean I won't call it like I see it. PBF would have a very tough time with Williams in my opinion but I'm still a fan. I'm a fan of Cotto's but I know he could possibly lose to Clottey. I'm a fan of Pacquiao's but I think him and his team are full of shit with their catch weight demands. I'm a Floyd fan but if he doesnt fight the welter-wt elite I'll be amongst the peole calling him a cherry picker.
Keith
i am not quite sure pbf was the p4p king in 06(hopkins after tarver, wright after shane and tito), at least not as clearly as he was when he retired. not fighting a guy who calls you out is a bit different then ducking someone. in 99, shane chose a bigger fight for much more money then facing pbf. in 06, besides having some dental work(which may or may not be an excuse, nobody knows but shane), shane also has a weight issue. i think that was the bigger problem. he had to come down to 47. not an easy thing to do in a few months considering how musclebound shane was at the time. there really isnt anything keeping them from fighting these days. same weight, shane is the welter champ, and outside of a pac fight shane would bring pbf his biggest purse and glory. the only current holdup is pbf attitude. this is much more of a duck.

and you dont fight trilogies when the fighters dont split the first 2. thats not how it works. so facing forrest a third time makes no sense and is not a duck, and facing wright(a much better fighter then dlh) is also not a duck.
Keith
also, margarito was not overated. he just wasnt perfect. he fought everybody he could during the last 7 yrs at welter. clottey, pwill, cotto, mosley. he is the only fighter to do so. he didnt always come out on top but none of those other fighters came close to dominating margarito the way shane did. clottey may of been winning prior to a hand injury, pwill barely held on, cotto collapsed. shane dominated. make all the plaster assumptions you want in those other fights, but margarito could of been swinging with concrete blocks that night and it would not of mattered. he barely sniffed shane. watch the 1st round on youtube. shane landed 2 huge body shots that sapped margarito for the rest of the fight.
D-MARV
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 9 2009, 07:39 PM) *
also, margarito was not overated. he just wasnt perfect. he fought everybody he could during the last 7 yrs at welter. clottey, pwill, cotto, mosley. he is the only fighter to do so. he didnt always come out on top but none of those other fighters came close to dominating margarito the way shane did. clottey may of been winning prior to a hand injury, pwill barely held on, cotto collapsed. shane dominated. make all the plaster assumptions you want in those other fights, but margarito could of been swinging with concrete blocks that night and it would not of mattered. he barely sniffed shane. watch the 1st round on youtube. shane landed 2 huge body shots that sapped margarito for the rest of the fight.

LMAO
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Big Slim @ Jun 8 2009, 10:30 PM) *
Man, beating Berto wouldn't have given Mosley any more leverage than he already has. Seriously, what would it have done for him besides awarded him another meaningless alphabet trinket he likely would have been forced immediately afterward to vacate anyway? He already beat up the top dog in the division in Margarito and became the recognized champ again. Beating a greenhorn like Berto that no one knows or thinks a whole lot about wouldn't have done a thing.

Not saying he shouldn't have fought him. I agree with you that he should have, just to put in the work. But the leverage Shane has now is all the leverage he's ever gonna have. Fact is he beat DLH twice and that didn't do much for him. It's just not in the cards for him to be a power player. He's a fighter's fighter and a fan favorite and the only thing he can do is try and wait these other top guys out until one of them has no better options than to come see him.


well i feel that beating berto would have done a lot for mosely.. got him some work etc. when he does fight again it will be a minute since his fight against marg... and regardless of what anyone thinks major belts are bargaining tools... whomever he fights he will be the holder of some major hardware.. and i will ask this... knowing what we know now was marg. actually the top dog in the division?.. marg. is a known cheater.. how long does those4 hand wrpas go back?.. surely that wasnt the first time... that was a fight mosely wasnt supposed to win...and i will also say i am not so sure berto is an easy fight for mosely just throwing that in there.. i think if they thought they could take that EASY payday it would have been mosely and not urango last weekend... just saying... he can wait these guys out but with the mentality he has he's gonna be waiting for a fight for a long time... a fighters fighter takes on those that challenge them.. hint the berto fight...
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