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traced4040
Firstly can we stop with the whole Mayweather thing. too much talk of mayweather, which is usually fine but the same arguments are being mde all the time so please try to atleast have new arguments

1. Mike Tyson

in the ring and out of it this guy was a walking headline

the thing that made Tyson special was that he hit like a heavyweight but moved and had the skills of a lightweight.

Fav fight
Any of 1st round KO's, the look on his opponents before a fight told you that they didnt want to be there, there was a certain doom in their eyes and Tyson did the merciful thing by going nuts as soo as the bell rung.

this is what true pressure was about as he would simply wail on guys until they fell.

i did some light sparring and gym work ages ago but i never really did anything else and instead did soccer and basketball so i never understood it until Tyson said "everyone has a plan........ until they get hit" it dawned on me that facing Tyson and feeling that first punch was to realise that you were going to get hurt badly. the look of despair in his opponents just goes to show how powerful and overwhelming he was


2. Manny Pacquiao

this guy fights like lightweight but hits like a heavyweight

you cant complain about his fights as he makes thing happen.

isnt the type to complain and just gets on with it

also does what boxers should do and moves up to take on new challenges against bigger men

Fav fight
Hatton for one punch power

Diaz for showcasing skill

MAB1 cause i still dont like the cheap shots MAB threw and was glad he got a TKO over him


3. Paul Williams

this guys is a non stop punching machine and his nickname should be changed to the "output"

he punches like Billy Blanks with repitition and without care for his opponents, whether they are blocking or getting hit he simply keeps on punching

also should class in his loss with a sincere congrats to quintana

Fav Fight
Winky Wright
it wasnt Winky's best fight and he looked out of form but Pwill went to town regardless



4. Ali

what can be said that hasnt already been mentioned.

not only do i respect him for his boxing record but also his stance against the Vietnam War

he used skill and startegy and whilst i hate the way he treated foreman and frazier (who helped him out), he brought boxing to the next level

Fav Fight
Rumble in the Kungle and Thrilla in Manila


5. Morales

one of my fav nicknames of all time "El Terrible"

like pac this guy was a warrior

he went toe t toe and whilst he lost to pac he went down swinging.

he got hard in the third fight but was still throwing punches like he was winning

Fav Fight
Morales vs Pac 1

i just luv the fact that he went south paw to show boat

pac made him pay and he almost lost but this guy ddnt care

most people would have been worried and yet he tries to entrtain


Honorable mention goes to Kostya Tszyu

he was the epitome of the russian fromm rocky movie

this guy was an unrelenting machine, cold blooded and as Zab Judah found out heavy handed

also beat Roger Mayweather


Dishounourable mention goes to Zab Judah

this was a talented individual that managed to steal defeat from the jaws of victory

he also cancelled one of his biggest fights when he "accidentally" smashed a shower door requiring 50 stitches to his hand.

he also low blowed Mayweather when he was losing and thought he didnt deservet he TKO against tszyu

Keith
1 - mike tyson. he was absolutely must see early in his career. i will go out on a limb and claim that 22 yr old tyson was not only the most electric hw ever, but the greatest. bar bone. absolute fear during his fights. fear that if you went to the bathroom you may miss the the fight...literally.

2 - ray leonard. speed, footwork, skill, power, and a flair for the dramatic. my numero uno pfp fighter of all time.

3 - thomas hearns. bad intentions. at all times. he is known more as the "hitman" but i always preferred "the motor city cobra".

4 - prince hamed. he was completely one dimensional, but he was just fun to watch... and then he started drinking his own koolaid.

5 - roy jones. not always exciting but you had to watch in awe as he rarely lost a round for about 7 years.
Romulus9
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 10 2009, 10:36 PM) *
2 - ray leonard. speed, footwork, skill, power, and a flair for the dramatic. my numero uno pfp fighter of all time.



Seriously?
Keith
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jun 10 2009, 10:47 PM) *
Seriously?

uh ya. its an opinion. and to be honest, one based solely on fighters i actually watched multiple times. surely, i could do a lot worse the ray leonard as the #1 pfp fighter of all time. its not totally out of the question. sugar ray robinson usually gets the nod but i never saw him fight other then in clips.
King Eugene
1. Roy Jones Jr. - His pure and raw talent was like none other. His speed and reflexes combined with his power was a site to see. If you've never seen Roy in his prime then I advise you to youtube some clips.

2. Mike Tyson - Do I really need to elaborate?

3. Evander Holyfield - I cant recall too many boring fights he was in...well atleast in his hey day.

4. James Toney - This dude has pure skill. I always thought he was an entertaining cat just from his interviews alone but after seeing the Iran Barkley fight...I was a bonafide fan.

5. Tommy Hearns - That sneaky right hand is brutal. I bet Duran would agree!
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 10 2009, 09:52 PM) *
uh ya. its an opinion. and to be honest, one based solely on fighters i actually watched multiple times. surely, i could do a lot worse the ray leonard as the #pfp fighter of all time. its not totally out of the question. sugar ray robinson usually gets the nod but i never saw him fight other then in clips.

Wow,only clips of Sugar Ray Robinson..You really need to watch some of his full fights..It's only a matter of time before you change your opinion I guess..No one moved like Ray Robinson..Watch Ray Robinson's triple left hook against Luc Van Damn..Fastest triple left hook I've seen..
JonnyBlaze
Most exciting,top 5??Hard to say since I wish it was top 10..I'll give it a try..

1)Holyfield---His name says it all..No explaining needs to be done
2)Joe Louis---extremely accurate and put together really nice/lethal combos..Fights--Abe Simon 2,Schmeling 2,Buddy Baer 1 and 2,Max Baer,and many others.
3)Roy Jones Jr.---In his prime,he was amazing to watch..
4)Archie Moore---How can I not put him on here..Yvon Durelle/Archie 1 is one of the craziest fights I've seen and Archie was in his 40s..
5)Micky Ward---He was an absolute savage in the ring..He and Mike McCallum were both bodysnatchers..Ward's fight with Emanuel Augustus was amazing..Die hard shit..

Honorable mention---Tommy Hearns,Duran,McCallum,Halger,Corrales,Marciano,Sugar Ray Robinson,Pac-man,Jean Marc-Mormeck,A. Pryor,and Tony Zale
King Eugene
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jun 11 2009, 12:47 AM) *
Wow,only clips of Sugar Ray Robinson..You really need to watch some of his full fights..It's only a matter of time before you change your opinion I guess..No one moved like Ray Robinson..Watch Ray Robinson's triple left hook against Luc Van Damn..Fastest triple left hook I've seen..

You've seen Roys?
Not the one against Percy Harris but the one against Bryant Brannon. Well the first one was more of an uppercut but damn three lefts that damn fast is unreal. Just watch it if you have the opportunity.
King Eugene
offtopic.gif I know but sunday marathon of old school fights came on ESPN Classics. One of the fights was Ali vs. Liston I with Joe Louis commentating. I swear Joe Louis and Emmanuel Stewart sound just a like LOL
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (3King3 @ Jun 11 2009, 12:17 AM) *
You've seen Roys?
Not the one against Percy Harris but the one against Bryant Brannon. Well the first one was more of an uppercut but damn three lefts that damn fast is unreal. Just watch it if you have the opportunity.

I was thinking about you saying this when I was typing that and yes I believe Sugar Ray's was faster..I know the triple lefts you're talkin about..It's close and may even be equal but I think Ray's was faster..Have you seen the triple left I'm talkin about??He knocked him out with it..You got to find good footage though and not the sped up footage..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (3King3 @ Jun 11 2009, 12:21 AM) *
offtopic.gif I know but sunday marathon of old school fights came on ESPN Classics. One of the fights was Ali vs. Liston I with Joe Louis commentating. I swear Joe Louis and Emmanuel Stewart sound just a like LOL

Thanks for the info..Joe and Emmanuel do sound similar..Joe naturally talks slower though in my opinion..Not from boxing but that is how he's always talked..He is so laid back and calm,it suits him..
Keith
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jun 11 2009, 12:47 AM) *
Wow,only clips of Sugar Ray Robinson..You really need to watch some of his full fights..It's only a matter of time before you change your opinion I guess..No one moved like Ray Robinson..Watch Ray Robinson's triple left hook against Luc Van Damn..Fastest triple left hook I've seen..

can you tell where i can watch some full fights. youtube? what i see on youtube is not spectacular. i am not saying he wasnt great because his record speaks for itself and his place at the top on most experts list also speaks volumes but... every clip i watch on youtube is of ray robinson beating up a slow white dude. i like white dudes but it makes it difficult to compare fighters of different eras. RR fought before carribean, mexican, central and south american fighters came on to the scene. and for that matter even before black fighters fought in the numbers they have from say the mid 60's on.
D-MARV
Umm... Roy Jones Jr had the greatest left hook I have ever seen.


Now to the question. I'm only naming fighters from the 90s on because I already knew the outcome to the older fights which took away from the excitement.

1. Mike Tyson, I can't name one Tyson fight ever that I was not on the edge of my seat the entire fight. Even the older Tyson was exciting because you knew he could Knock his opponent out, Bite, or snap a limb.

2. Roy Jones Jr., Though he dominated and rarely lost a round until the first Tarver fight, Roy was always fun to watch. He was the closest thing Boxing had to Superman.

3. Manny Pacquiao, Manny should have been a character on "Street Fighter".

4. Ricardo Mayorga, Ricardo is BADDASS in his own right. The slugger might be one of the all time greats when it comes to pre fight build ups.

5. Zab Judah. Hate him or Love him, whenever you saw Zab fight you just knew some shit was going down.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jun 11 2009, 01:03 AM) *
5)Micky Ward---He was an absolute savage in the ring..He and Mike McCallum were both bodysnatchers..Ward's fight with Emanuel Augustus was amazing..Die hard shit..


Maybe the second half of his career. But coming up and the first half of his career, he was definately no savage in there, far from it. And I have seen many of his fights on ESPN in the 90's. He used to do the earmuffs alot, and cover up too much and not return fire. He did not always fight the way he did in the later half of his career.
Mean Mister Mustard
I'm surprised at the number of people choosing Roy Jones as one of the most exciting fighters. Sure, coming up he would KO guys out but between 1998-2003 he was a bore to watch, hurting his opponents and when they realized they could do nothing against him he would lay back and carry them for 12 rounds. I do understand however, understand why many are picking him, his talent alone could make fights interesting to watch.

Tommy Hearns was a great puncher and could also box. He was a fighter at heart though , that plus his weak chin made his fights compelling to watch.

Julio Cesar Chavez. Just came foward and ripped you apart with hooks to the head and body. Mixed in every punch in the manual so that his opponents didn't know from which direction the punches were coming from. His granite chin allowed him to take the other guy's shots while still coming foward.
Romulus9
Jones was one of my favorites to watch but never one of the most exciting.

He was, however, more exciting than John Ruiz and Chris Byrd (sorry Byrd Man!).

In terms of excitement, there were just guys that you knew would never be in a boring fight, some of which you knew were never going to amount to anything, others who were titlists several times over. The guys who would give everything they had every time they stepped in the ring. Guys like:

Julian Jackson
Arturo Gatti
Rocky Gannon
Vinny Pazienza
Greg Haugen
Edwin Rosario
Thomas Hearns
Roberto Duran
Carmen Basilio
Kevin Kelley
Ray Mancini


I'd call that exciting and entertaining. Then you have idiots like Camacho, Hamed, Hatton, and Mayweather for whom the entrances and outfits are usually more "entertaining" than the fights.
Keith
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jun 11 2009, 03:36 PM) *
I'd call that exciting and entertaining. Then you have idiots like Camacho, Hamed, Hatton, and Mayweather for whom the entrances and outfits are usually more "entertaining" than the fights.

this is an absolute opinion question. its not really a debate. what one fight fan finds entertaining or exciting is their own business. if i liked hamed because he dressed and acted like a clown thats my business. but he was also fun to watch fight.
Romulus9
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 11 2009, 04:34 PM) *
this is an absolute opinion question. its not really a debate. what one fight fan finds entertaining or exciting is their own business. if i liked hamed because he dressed and acted like a clown thats my business. but he was also fun to watch fight.


Thanks for chiming in. I'm well aware that it's an opinion question.

It doesn't change the fact that Hamed wasn't worth the Charmin two-ply that I wipe with after a trip to an all-you-can-eat buffet.
Keith
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jun 11 2009, 04:51 PM) *
Thanks for chiming in. I'm well aware that it's an opinion question.

It doesn't change the fact that Hamed wasn't worth the Charmin two-ply that I wipe with after a trip to an all-you-can-eat buffet.

never said he was. its just crappy to criticize someone elses choices of who they found exciting to watch. the topic wasnt "greatest fighter of all time". you had gatti on your list and he was worth a ham sandwich and bag of french fries.
Romulus9
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 11 2009, 05:39 PM) *
never said he was. its just crappy to criticize someone elses choices of who they found exciting to watch. the topic wasnt "greatest fighter of all time". you had gatti on your list and he was worth a ham sandwich and bag of french fries.


Uh huh.

Two time world champion. That's probably worth something.

I like that you saw Gatti but didn't mention Rocky Gannon. laugh.gif

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 11 2009, 05:48 AM) *
can you tell where i can watch some full fights. youtube? what i see on youtube is not spectacular. i am not saying he wasnt great because his record speaks for itself and his place at the top on most experts list also speaks volumes but... every clip i watch on youtube is of ray robinson beating up a slow white dude. i like white dudes but it makes it difficult to compare fighters of different eras. RR fought before carribean, mexican, central and south american fighters came on to the scene. and for that matter even before black fighters fought in the numbers they have from say the mid 60's on.

Go to my video clips thread..I'll get some on there for ya guys..
Keith
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jun 11 2009, 05:56 PM) *
Uh huh.

Two time world champion. That's probably worth something.

I like that you saw Gatti but didn't mention Rocky Gannon. laugh.gif

well using that criteria, why wouldnt hamed be worth anything? he was a world champion. held 3 belts at one time and should of had all 4 if the hadnt stripped wilfredo vazquez before they fought. thats impressive to me.

i dont claim to be a rocky gannon expert so i didnt comment on him.

you started out commenting that my personal choice of srl couldnt be taken seriously. then you commented on how hamed (among others) was an idiot. do you have a problem with me? i cant respect your opinion unless you respect mine.
Keith
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jun 11 2009, 06:15 PM) *
Go to my video clips thread..I'll get some on there for ya guys..

thanks man.
Romulus9
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 11 2009, 06:56 PM) *
well using that criteria, why wouldnt hamed be worth anything? he was a world champion. held 3 belts at one time and should of had all 4 if the hadnt stripped wilfredo vazquez before they fought. thats impressive to me.

i dont claim to be a rocky gannon expert so i didnt comment on him.

you started out commenting that my personal choice of srl couldnt be taken seriously. then you commented on how hamed (among others) was an idiot. do you have a problem with me? i cant respect your opinion unless you respect mine.



I never said Hamed was worthless. I said his entrances tended to be more entertaining than his fights, like Camacho and others. That's what I said.

I also said Gatti was a two-time champion, which is worth more than a ham sandwich and bag of chips.

I didn't say your choice of Ray Leonard couldn't be taken seriously. I asked if you seriously thought he was P4P #1 all time.

To be honest, I don't think Ray Leonard is CLOSE to #1 P4P because beating Benitez, Duran with stomach cramps, and Hearns isn't exactly a resume that merits such a ranking. Ray Robinson is light years ahead of Leonard, and so are many other past champions whose abilities and resumes make his pale in comparison. That is, after all, what P4P is all about, dating back to Robinson, for whom the title was created in the 1950s.

That's what I said, exactly.

I have no problem with you. Why would I?

Yes, Hamed is an idiot. His idiocy is what landed him in jail. Camacho is an idiot but he's mellowed. Mayweather is the same idiot he's always been. His comments speak for themselves.
Keith
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jun 11 2009, 07:08 PM) *
To be honest, I don't think Ray Leonard is CLOSE to #1 P4P because beating Benitez, Duran with stomach cramps, and Hearns isn't exactly a resume that merits such a ranking. Ray Robinson is light years ahead of Leonard, and so are many other past champions whose abilities and resumes make his pale in comparison. That is, after all, what P4P is all about, dating back to Robinson, for whom the title was created in the 1950s.


i see ray robinsons record. i see the clips. i have read about how great he was. what is your opinion about the fact that most of his competition came from white fighters? i am not saying there have never been great white fighters, but would that pass in present times? would you take a fight record flooded with nothing but white fighters that seriously?
Romulus9
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 11 2009, 07:24 PM) *
i see ray robinsons record. i see the clips. i have read about how great he was. what is your opinion about the fact that most of his competition came from white fighters? i am not saying there have never been great white fighters, but would that pass in present times? would you take a fight record flooded with nothing but white fighters that seriously?



Wow. What an amazingly racist perspective.

I take each fighter for what they are. What difference does their race make? If they can fight, they can fight. If not, then it doesn't really matter.

If you have a fight record full of wins over good fighters and champions, what difference does it make if they are black, white, Hispanic, whatever?
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 11 2009, 06:24 PM) *
i see ray robinsons record. i see the clips. i have read about how great he was. what is your opinion about the fact that most of his competition came from white fighters? i am not saying there have never been great white fighters, but would that pass in present times? would you take a fight record flooded with nothing but white fighters that seriously?

Romulus,I don't think this is racist..

Anyway,guys like Basilio,LaMotta,Fullmer,and Olson would be with the elite today..Basilio was a lot better than people give him credit for I believe..You have to remember,these guys hung with the best fighter P4P EVER!!I think Olson deserves a hell of a lot more credit too..Olson had a great defense and had real good skills..I believe if those guys were in a different era,they may have owned it..
Romulus9
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jun 11 2009, 07:44 PM) *
Romulus,I don't think this is racist..

Anyway,guys like Basilio,LaMotta,Fullmer,and Olson would be with the elite today..Basilio was a lot better than people give him credit for I believe..You have to remember,these guys hung with the best fighter P4P EVER!!I think Olson deserves a hell of a lot more credit too..Olson had a great defense and had real good skills..I believe if those guys were in a different era,they may have owned it..



You're right. It's not racist. It's just discriminatory on the basis of race alone and nothing else.

Imagine for a second if I said that a given fighter was overrated because all he did was beat a bunch of black fighters and that didn't amount to much, or if it was just a bunch of Hispanic fighters and no white fighters. Think the reaction would be a little different? Jack Johnson was a joke. All he did was beat a bunch of white fighters as champion too. Did he DEFEND against any black fighters? How many did Joe Louis defend against? Charles, Walcott.... and.... er.... umm....

Yeah.

Bias based on race alone = racism.

Plus it shows a hilarious lack of knowledge considering how truly great some of those fighters you listed were. I've got a nice Carmen Basilio DVD set that illustrates his career. Think about some of the guys from back then. Olson, Basilio, LaMotta, Fullmer, Randy Turpin... what an era to have all of them, plus Robinson, fighting each other.
Keith
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jun 11 2009, 07:44 PM) *
Romulus,I don't think this is racist..

Anyway,guys like Basilio,LaMotta,Fullmer,and Olson would be with the elite today..Basilio was a lot better than people give him credit for I believe..You have to remember,these guys hung with the best fighter P4P EVER!!I think Olson deserves a hell of a lot more credit too..Olson had a great defense and had real good skills..I believe if those guys were in a different era,they may have owned it..

i can say with the upmost certainty that i am not racist. my point is simple. i think the fight game today is much more competitive because the competition is truly worldwide. all parts of the globe are fully represented. it makes for better fights and better fighters.
torvix2000
There's a saying in basketball "WHITE MEN CAN'T JUMP!". Is that racist.? Nope.
King Eugene
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Jun 11 2009, 08:43 PM) *
There's a saying in basketball "WHITE MEN CAN'T JUMP!". Is that racist.? Nope.

Damn I haven't heard that one in a while. LOL
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Jun 11 2009, 07:43 PM) *
There's a saying in basketball "WHITE MEN CAN'T JUMP!". Is that racist.? Nope.

That's just a stereotype..
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Jun 12 2009, 01:43 AM) *
There's a saying in basketball "WHITE MEN CAN'T JUMP!". Is that racist.? Nope.



Just like saying a blackie can't swim. By & large it is true even if it is a stereotype.
torvix2000
If somehow, those blacks didn't happen to get in America, then NBA might be pure whites. Then we wouldn't be able to know the things that we know now - THAT BLACKS are excellent basketball players.
Keith
if you want to be honest, i think what i said was the exact opposite of racist. i believe boxing is better off represented by all people, of all colors, from all over the world. isnt that the definition on "world champion"? i never said anywhere that white fighters werent great simply because they were white. there are plenty of great white fighters now and then.

romulous, you still havent answered my question. in the present time, would a fighter be taken seriously if they only competed against white fighters?
King Eugene
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 11 2009, 08:50 PM) *
Just like saying a blackie can't swim. By & large it is true even if it is a stereotype.

Did you watch the Olympics? Did you follow Michael Phelps recording 8 gold medals? Well if you did you would have noticed that on his relay team there was a black guy that helped him win one of those medals so by in large its NOT true. Hell have you even bothered watching the movie based on a true story called PRIDE?
King Eugene
Everyone on here knows I'm not a racist but I heard a joke a while back that was funny as hell to me. Some of you probably have heard it.

You know why there aren't any pools in Cuba?

No. Why?

Cause everybody in Cuba that could swim are already in America.

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Alright, now I know about to hear some black jokes so bring'em on. And for the record, I think a lot of black jokes I've heard white pretty funny. Ever seen Guess Who with Bernie Mac and Ashton Kutcher? The dinner table seen was pure comedy!
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (3King3 @ Jun 11 2009, 08:26 PM) *
Did you watch the Olympics? Did you follow Michael Phelps recording 8 gold medals? Well if you did you would have noticed that on his relay team there was a black guy that helped him win one of those medals so by in large its NOT true. Hell have you even bothered watching the movie based on a true story called PRIDE?

No one jumped on the white guys can jump or the boxing thing about white dudes..Anyone could have..There are plenty of exceptions..There have been plenty of great white boxers and I've seen plenty of white guys with big jumps..They're just stereotypes and theres not much to say about em..

Boxers are not smart and weren't able to do anything else other than box because they were poor..Theres a stereotype about all boxers..Black dudes can't play hockey..Another..

No need to talk about this shit if ya ask me..Also Keith,I don't think you're racist and I haven't thought anyone on here is racist..

Keith
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jun 11 2009, 10:11 PM) *
No one jumped on the white guys can jump or the boxing thing about white dudes..Anyone could have..There are plenty of exceptions..There have been plenty of great white boxers and I've seen plenty of white guys with big jumps..They're just stereotypes and theres not much to say about em..

Boxers are not smart and weren't able to do anything else other than box because they were poor..Theres a stereotype about all boxers..Black dudes can't play hockey..Another..

No need to talk about this shit if ya ask me..Also Keith,I don't think you're racist and I haven't thought anyone on here is racist..

thanks man. i didnt mean to have this discussion go in this direction. the dude called me a racist and i thought it was way out of line. i just think sugar ray robinsons competition was limited. he didnt face worldwide competition like fighters have increasingly done over the last 40 years. maybe those guys were good, or even great, but they were mostly white and that begs the question "did he face as stiff a competition as fighters have since?". is that not a a valid question to ask if the claim is that RR was the pfp greatest of all time?
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 11 2009, 09:19 PM) *
thanks man. i didnt mean to have this discussion go in this direction. the dude called me a racist and i thought it was way out of line. i just think sugar ray robinsons competition was limited. he didnt face worldwide competition like fighters have increasingly done over the last 40 years. maybe those guys were good, or even great, but they were mostly white and that begs the question "did he face as stiff a competition as fighters have since?". is that not a a valid question to ask if the claim is that RR was the pfp greatest of all time?

Sugar Ray did not have worldwide competition but he did go over to Europe a couple of times..Sugar Ray fought very "stiff" competition..He fought a lot of great fighters..Sugar Ray was going to fight Archie Moore at light heavyweight but the fight fell through..Like I said though,Basilio,LaMotta,and Olson would have all been competitive today and I believe they all would have a good chance at becoming champ..Basilio and LaMotta were as tough as nails and Basilio had a lot of skill to go with his toughness..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 11 2009, 09:19 PM) *
Stereotypes with some credence. Sure you can find some white guys that can jump high, or black guys that can swim and some good asian rugby players. But doesn't mean it makes it false.
It's true that there isn't as many good black swimmers, it's true there isn't as many good white basketball players. No need to try play the good guy, because what ever you say, we can back all these stereotypes with some straight up stats and percentages and you won't be able to prove that wrong because you come up with a small percentage that goes against the grain.
I really hate how people think that if you believe in a sterotype (even if you can back it up with facts) that it's racist.

Stereotypes can be racist..Yet,the stereotypes we are talking about aren't..

The stereotype about jumping I don't believe to be true but the highest jumpers are black guys..There aren't many black swimmers..Most basketball players are black..
kidbazooka1
Morales
Pacquiao
Corrales
Arce
Gatti
Marquez(current not old version)
Juan Diaz

JonnyBlaze
I don't know if anyone brought him up yet but Juan M. Lopez..If he hasn't been brought up,I'm surprised..

Kidbazooka,Corrales definitely has to make the list.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jun 12 2009, 02:09 AM) *
I don't know if anyone brought him up yet but Juan M. Lopez..If he hasn't been brought up,I'm surprised..

Kidbazooka,Corrales definitely has to make the list.


Your right Lopez deserves to be up there aswell.
traced4040
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Jun 12 2009, 08:40 AM) *
Your right Lopez deserves to be up there aswell.



Kidbazooka your signature pic looks hilarious

the guy in the background looks like he just won the lottery!
torvix2000
QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 13 2009, 01:57 PM) *
Kidbazooka your signature pic looks hilarious

the guy in the background looks like he just won the lottery!


The guys should be banned from entering the ring. LOL! Look at him! While Hatton was clinging for his life.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (3King3 @ Jun 12 2009, 02:26 AM) *
Did you watch the Olympics? Did you follow Michael Phelps recording 8 gold medals? Well if you did you would have noticed that on his relay team there was a black guy that helped him win one of those medals so by in large its NOT true. Hell have you even bothered watching the movie based on a true story called PRIDE?


Of course hence my term "by & large" meaning that the majority of good swimmers are not black & conversely the majority of good sprinters are black. That is just keeping it real. Different ethnic groups are better suited to different types of sports based on their genetic makeup.


QUOTE (keith @ Jun 12 2009, 01:53 AM) *
if you want to be honest, i think what i said was the exact opposite of racist. i believe boxing is better off represented by all people, of all colors, from all over the world. isnt that the definition on "world champion"? i never said anywhere that white fighters werent great simply because they were white. there are plenty of great white fighters now and then.



The reason there are more "ethnic" fighters is because boxing is a poor sport & therefore draws most of its talent from the socioeconomicly disadvantaged portion of the worlds population. There are Harvard graduates that could have surely been world champions but because they had different options to take in life they never considered boxing.

That is the cold hard facts. Look back 100 years & there were proportionally a larger # of "white" fighters fighting because they were socially disadvantaged as well. That is just how it is. To generalise the Jews & Irish & Italians are more financially stable now than they were 80 years ago which is wh ythere are far fewer fighters from that ethnic background.

Also to clear things up so that no idiots run with it there is only one race & that is the human race we just come in different flavours & all bleed red.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 12 2009, 03:19 AM) *
thanks man. i didnt mean to have this discussion go in this direction. the dude called me a racist and i thought it was way out of line. i just think sugar ray robinsons competition was limited. he didnt face worldwide competition like fighters have increasingly done over the last 40 years. maybe those guys were good, or even great, but they were mostly white and that begs the question "did he face as stiff a competition as fighters have since?". is that not a a valid question to ask if the claim is that RR was the pfp greatest of all time?


That is where I could not disagree more with you. IMO & it is only my opinion the talent pool was many many times deeper 70 years ago than it is today. How many NFL linebackers could have been heavyweight champions had they decided to box instead of get a guarenteed college education & potential multi million $ contracts.

As a potential professional athlete you tend to get scouted at a very young age & your whole educational development is moulded about it. You are catered for & educated accordingly so even if you get your knee broken over the back of your skull & cannot play (insert sport here) you get a education so you can have a good job & support yourself.

Would any right thinking induvidual trade that to take punches often for a pittance unless you are one of teh lucky ones that can make th ebig money?

A average fighter makes far less than a minor league athlete. I know I would not take that risk.
torvix2000
STEVENSKI,

You just solidified the idea that there could have been a lot more variety to Sugar Ray's opponents.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Jun 13 2009, 03:25 PM) *
STEVENSKI,

You just solidified the idea that there could have been a lot more variety to Sugar Ray's opponents.



How? Who? Name the fighters he should have fought? What variety could have he had? If he fought a beaner then a jewboy then a mick then a blacky then a wop & then a chinger & kept doing it in that order would have that been more suitable? Should have he thrown in the odd Arab & Eskimo as well?

He fought the best all over the US & Europe. Where else at that time was a hotbed of 147-160lb contenders. Robinson did not bar ethnicity & fought anyone a fight was made with.

Manny Pac has fought way too many Latino & Asian fighters with not enough variety of Caucasians & Blacks for my liking. He should have more variety shouldn't he?
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