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traced4040
http://www.examiner.com/x-2850-LA-Boxing-E...-Manny-vs-Floyd

interesting article

its a conspiracy theory but what if its true??????

would mayweather really skip marquez straight for manny?

its interesting that it comes right aftert he cotto vs clottey match

i dont doubt for a sec that PBF was going for Clottey so that Cotto gets taken out of the manny sweepstakes

but it does raise the question does PBF need Manny right now before the Marquez fight?

i think there are 2 good reasons for PBF to skip marquez

1. PPV

the big problem will be when the fight does seriosuly bad numbers. with the state fo the economy and PBF not being a draw, this will seriously effect his bargaining power

the tickets arent selling well and i would thin k that the fight does asomewhere around 400 - 600k

those numbers are impressive but theyre not the type of numbers that get you paid $15M+

2. Cotto

if Pac takes on Cotto and wins then it enhances Pac's legacy while ppl will be asking why PBF was scared to take Cotto on

im not saying that cotto would have won againstPBF but we all know that Pac's populaity really hurts PBF and his ego

also i think he would be very confident of beating cotto after saturday and would look to take that fight on after fighting Pac and before Pac has fought cotto


with that being said i really hope it doesnt happen

Mrquez deserves this fight

if does happen i hope marquez counter offers Manny and they take a fight leaving PBF to fight Mosley
torvix2000
LOL! Gayweather's afraid that JMM-PAC would outsold JMM-PBF.
torvix2000
QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 15 2009, 12:56 AM) *
if does happen i hope marquez counter offers Manny and they take a fight leaving PBF to fight Mosley


Do you really believe Gayweather will fight Mosley if what you are saying indeed happened?
traced4040
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Jun 14 2009, 09:04 PM) *
Do you really believe Gayweather will fight Mosley if what you are saying indeed happened?


i think he needs the money
traced4040
the more i think about it the more i want Pac vs JMM3

if PBF is out for a while then it makes perfect sense for Pac to challenge JMM

this would really lower PBF's bargaining position should he win agaisnt marquez

it also leaves PBF without a dance partner
torvix2000
QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 15 2009, 01:13 AM) *
the more i think about it the more i want Pac vs JMM3


I'm sad for JMM. I disrepected him before because he acted like Pac's dog. But when he started doing the right things (making his name without Pac by fighting Diaz, Casa), he was shot down by Gayweather. Fouck!
STEVENSKI
I feel for JMM. The dude is getting raped by PBF & his cowardice & PBF does not even have the courtesy to give the poor bloke a reach around.
Jack 1000
Gayweather will NEVER fight any boxer with the punching ability to hurt him, period.

Jack
traced4040
its beign reported that the rib isnt broken and there was no cartlidge damage

apparently its a muscle strain or something

given its hard for doctors to asses that kind of injury and that richard schaeffer said it was a "legitimate" injury, i know truly belive it was a case of poor ticket sales

the fact that they havent even mentioned any realistc potential dates and with an ambigous statement like PBF will fight once this year (schaeffer) makes it obvious

it loook more and more like Pac vs PBF
thehype
QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 14 2009, 08:56 PM) *
ppl will be asking why PBF was scared to take Cotto on


You lost me on that one.
traced4040
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 14 2009, 09:02 PM) *
You lost me on that one.


i think PBF will get asked why he didnt fight Cotto before his retirement

i think PBF would have won and i dont think he was scared of cotto but he still should have taken him on
IkeB2
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jun 14 2009, 08:49 PM) *
Gayweather will NEVER fight any boxer with the punching ability to hurt him, period.

Jack



You are either dumb or just hate FM. He fought Gatti, Hattin, D. Corrales, DelaHoya, Juddah and Phillip Ndou(who had 30 KO's in 34 fights). All of which had KO power. What do people see when you watch boxing? I love him but hate his mouth sometimes, but always am able to recognize that he is the best boxer of this generation. Yes, I will admit I would like to see him act like the rest and just fight the fights we want to see, but at the end of the day, if you don't have an ax to grind, you can't take away what he has done....period1
traced4040
QUOTE (IkeB2 @ Jun 14 2009, 09:10 PM) *
You are either dumb or just hate FM. He fought Gatti, Hattin, D. Corrales, DelaHoya, Juddah and Phillip Ndou(who had 30 KO's in 34 fights). All of which had KO power. What do people see when you watch boxing? I love him but hate his mouth sometimes, but always am able to recognize that he is the best boxer of this generation. Yes, I will admit I would like to see him act like the rest and just fight the fights we want to see, but at the end of the day, if you don't have an ax to grind, you can't take away what he has done....period1


i dont agree with PBF not fighting opponenets with power and i think he is a dmn good boxer

but read this artcile first before you bring up those names

http://queensberry-rules.com/2009/05/kindl...r-jrs-jock.html

article highlight

During Mayweather's tenure at junior welterweight, the top men were, at various times, Kostya Tszyu, Hatton and Miguel Cotto. Mayweather fought DeMarcus Corley, Henry Bruseles and Arturo Gatti.

During Mayweather's tenure at welterweight, the top men were, at various times, Cotto, Antonio Margarito, Paul Williams and Mosley. Mayweather fought Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir, Hatton (moving up from junior welterweight) and took a detour to junior middleweight for Oscar De La Hoya. Before his temporary retirement, he was making plans to fight Hatton and De La Hoya again.

STEVENSKI
QUOTE (IkeB2 @ Jun 15 2009, 02:10 AM) *
but at the end of the day, if you don't have an ax to grind, you can't take away what he has done....period1


No one is debating what he has done prior to 140. It is his fights since that have people asking legitimate questions.
D-MARV
Mayweather-Cotto wil be discussed. I will put money on it.
provo
Mayweather vs Pacquiao Oct 17,I think this played a big part cause of cottos win last night! And mayweather was never scared of cotto ,he wanted cotto 2 years before he retired but arum didn't let it happen..
STEVENSKI
Can someone please explain to me what Mayweather has actually done to deserve a fight against Pac?

Box in Hand
QUOTE (IkeB2 @ Jun 14 2009, 09:10 PM) *
You are either dumb or just hate FM. He fought Gatti, Hattin, D. Corrales, DelaHoya, Juddah and Phillip Ndou(who had 30 KO's in 34 fights). All of which had KO power. What do people see when you watch boxing? I love him but hate his mouth sometimes, but always am able to recognize that he is the best boxer of this generation. Yes, I will admit I would like to see him act like the rest and just fight the fights we want to see, but at the end of the day, if you don't have an ax to grind, you can't take away what he has done....period1



Well said.
traced4040
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jun 14 2009, 09:16 PM) *
Mayweather-Cotto wil be discussed. I will put money on it.


it will be but i doubt it will happen

if theyre cancelling this one because of poor ticket sales then they wont want to risk it happening again against cotto

cotto wouldnt have won many new fans yesterday, its not being disrepectful - i just think he was a much better fighter pre - margarito

cotto doesnt have no where near the intrigue of pac and with the irs breathing down his neck he cant afford to not make money

it also gets complicated because of his ego and the fact that he will want to co-promote the event

this means that his own promotion company will be needing to pay the purse and if ticket sales are bad then he could actually lose money

also if the ppv are bad then you can bet he will get offered a low share against pac which he wont accept meaning he gets screwed
traced4040
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 14 2009, 09:21 PM) *
Can someone please explain to me what Mayweather has actually done to deserve a fight against Pac?


despite the fact that he hasnt fought anyone of note (or in prime) since moving up to 140, PBF is still a highly skilled boxer

i also really want to see him knocked down and given a beating worse than the one Brian Kenny inflicted
D-MARV
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 14 2009, 10:21 PM) *
Can someone please explain to me what Mayweather has actually done to deserve a fight against Pac?

How about being a top pound for pound boxer since 2001.


You know, you're hate for Floyd is getting pretty pathetic. You blast all these so called "Nuthuggers" but you say some of the stupidest things in regards to Floyd.
IkeB2
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 14 2009, 09:15 PM) *
No one is debating what he has done prior to 140. It is his fights since that have people asking legitimate questions.



My response was to someone who said he will never face anyone who can hurt him. To say that, a person doesn't know boxing. Everyone forgets, he beat an undefeated Hatton and Baldamir hadn't been beaten in 9 years. Hatton got knocked out by a left hook from Pac......what did PBF knock him out with. It is always easier to beat someone once he has been beaten. People want to give credit to Pac for something Floyd did first. If Oscar would have won the fight vs Pac, people would have cheered to the heavens although Oscar has been a 154lb boxer and walks around at 170 for a long time....no one would say he was too big. Floyd walks around at 145 and everyone want to kill him for fighting the same type of fighter and saying PBF is fighting these small guys. Also, Mosley had been linked to fighting Pac and no one has said he was too big. Folks, we can't have it both ways. Floyd gets ridiculed no matter what he does.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jun 15 2009, 02:35 AM) *
How about being a top pound for pound boxer since 2001.


You know, you're hate for Floyd is getting pretty pathetic. You blast all these so called "Nuthuggers" but you say some of the stupidest things in regards to Floyd.



He is not a top P4P boxer currently he is coming out of retirement so therefore has had any P4P rating removed. He has done nothing to deserve getting a shot at Pac unless you are a ridiculously big PPV draw you have to earn a shot. If he followed through on his hollow promises & actually flogged Marquez then he would be first in line but he is showing his true colours now.

I just want to know what he has done to deserve a shot at Pac? What does he bring to the table? Is he a champion in any division currently? Pac beat both Floyd's most recent opponents far more convincingly than Floyd did. He does not bring much at all.

He has already shown that even after all his BS he still cannot sell out a arena in his home country. If Pac were to fight in his home turf the fight would sell out in seconds mot minutes not days & certainly not months like Mayweather.
traced4040
QUOTE (IkeB2 @ Jun 14 2009, 09:45 PM) *
My response was to someone who said he will never face anyone who can hurt him. To say that, a person doesn't know boxing. Everyone forgets, he beat an undefeated Hatton and Baldamir hadn't been beaten in 9 years. Hatton got knocked out by a left hook from Pac......what did PBF knock him out with. It is always easier to beat someone once he has been beaten. People want to give credit to Pac for something Floyd did first. If Oscar would have won the fight vs Pac, people would have cheered to the heavens although Oscar has been a 154lb boxer and walks around at 170 for a long time....no one would say he was too big. Floyd walks around at 145 and everyone want to kill him for fighting the same type of fighter and saying PBF is fighting these small guys. Also, Mosley had been linked to fighting Pac and no one has said he was too big. Folks, we can't have it both ways. Floyd gets ridiculed no matter what he does.


your arguments are pointless and secondly your response left itself open because you started mentioning other things like opponets he has fought

a lot of good fighters that lose go on to become much better fighters

but just to provide some perspective tell me an undefeated fighter that PBF fought

apart from Hatton that he made move up in weight, Hatton was never comfortbale at welterweight which is why he barely fougth there. making Hatton move up was to ensure he would win and Hatton was more than competitive until he got stopped

now lets look at your theory that pac shouldnt get credit cause PBF already defeated them

well look at PBF's oppnents hadnt they been defeated before? wouldnt that mean according to your logic that he shouldnt get credit for it?

also you completey ignored my response with the top contednders at that time

do you really think Zab is better than Kostya? if i remember correctly Kostya slapped Zab around

also are you serious with PBF fighting small guys?

small guys would be 140, marquez only had two fights at lightweight

do you not see how ridiculous that statement is?

even if he fought smaller guys it would be ok but featherweights?

pac gets credit for fighting and beating bigger guys

apart from oscar who was a part time boxer not in his prime PBF has not fought bigger guys

also it was a split decision against Oscar
IkeB2
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 14 2009, 09:46 PM) *
He is not a top P4P boxer currently he is coming out of retirement so therefore has had any P4P rating removed. He has done nothing to deserve getting a shot at Pac unless you are a ridiculously big PPV draw you have to earn a shot. If he followed through on his hollow promises & actually flogged Marquez then he would be first in line but he is showing his true colours now.

I just want to know what he has done to deserve a shot at Pac? What does he bring to the table? Is he a champion in any division currently? Pac beat both Floyd's most recent opponents far more convincingly than Floyd did. He does not bring much at all.

He has already shown that even after all his BS he still cannot sell out a arena in his home country. If Pac were to fight in his home turf the fight would sell out in seconds mot minutes not days & certainly not months like Mayweather.


You are one of the dumbest people I heard/read comment on boxing and PBF. His fights have sold out in minutes. You are comparing a country with one great fighter and boxing being the sport to watch now, vs America with 10 big boxing names and golf, football, baseball, nascar, basketball and hokey as a sport. So after Pac has losses, been knocked out and just won two fights against two fighters that Floyd doesn't get credit for beating is your rational for him being great???

So, if Peyton Manning and Tom Brady retire today and come back next season, will they all of sudden be average QB's and no team would go after them?
thehype
QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 14 2009, 10:14 PM) *
i dont agree with PBF not fighting opponenets with power and i think he is a dmn good boxer

but read this artcile first before you bring up those names

http://queensberry-rules.com/2009/05/kindl...r-jrs-jock.html


Couldn't read it...your link is bad.

QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 14 2009, 10:14 PM) *
article highlight

During Mayweather's tenure at junior welterweight, the top men were, at various times, Kostya Tszyu, Hatton and Miguel Cotto. Mayweather fought DeMarcus Corley, Henry Bruseles and Arturo Gatti.


Tszyu was with Showtime and Mayweather was with HBO, making the fight nearly impossible to make.

Floyd ASKED to fight Cotto at 140, but Arum REFUSED to make the fight.

Floyd ASKED to fight Hatton at 140, but Hatton REFUSED to take the fight, saying he needed more time before stepping up.

QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 14 2009, 10:14 PM) *
During Mayweather's tenure at welterweight, the top men were, at various times, Cotto, Antonio Margarito, Paul Williams and Mosley. Mayweather fought Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir, Hatton (moving up from junior welterweight) and took a detour to junior middleweight for Oscar De La Hoya. Before his temporary retirement, he was making plans to fight Hatton and De La Hoya again.


When Floyd fought Mitchell, the "top man" was Zab Judah.

Cotto didn't move up to welterweight until December of 2006 and at that time, Floyd was already slated to fight Oscar.

Mosley was too busy fighting Vargas and other 154 lbers. Mayweather even called him out after the Bruseles fight (2005), but to no avail. Even when Mosley had an opportunity to say he wanted the fight, he chose to mention a toothache and a vacation instead.

Paul Williams was still a relative unknown. He didn't even fight his first big name opponent (Sharmba Mitchell) until August of 2006 (a year after Floyd fougth Sharmba) and he didn't get his biggest win (Antonio Margarito) until July of 2007 (two months after Floyd was fighting Oscar).

The only "top man" you can really point to and say Floyd didn't fight him is Antonio Margarito, but honestly, that fight didn't even become a possibility until Floyd left Bob Arum AFTER the Zab Judah fight. Up until that point, Bob Arum wasn't interested in putting Floyd in the ring with Margarito.

Like I said, I didn't read the article, but I assume it's trying to descredit Floyd's resume by pointing out names of guys he could have fought...which is cool and all, but you also have to consider that there's a lot more to it than just naming names and accusing a fighter of ducking them. If you do your research, you'll understand that there's a lot of reasons why most of those fights didn't happen and Floyd isn't the person to blame for many of them.

"I want to fight the best out there. I would love to fight Kostya Tszyu, Arturo Gatti, the best out there. I hear that Shane Mosley is coming down to 147. I hear Oscar De La Hoya is coming down to 147. Floyd Mayweather is willing to go to 147 to fight Shane Mosley or Oscar De La Hoya." - Floyd Mayweather Jr., January 22, 2005



Other guys Floyd called out after fights:

traced4040
QUOTE (IkeB2 @ Jun 14 2009, 09:59 PM) *
You are one of the dumbest human people I heard/read comment on boxing and PBF. His fights have sold out in minutes. You are comparing a country with one great fighter and boxing being the sport to watch now, vs America with 10 big boxing names and golf, football, baseball, nascar, basketball and hokey as a sport. So after Pac has losses, been knocked out and just won two fights against two fighters that Floyd doesn't get credit for beating is your rational for him being great???

So, if Peyton Manning and Tom Brady retire today and come back next season, will they all of sudden be average QB's and no team would go after them?



i agree that stevenski says some outrageous things sometimes but you dont have a fesible argument

firstly his fights have sold out

the hatton and oscar fights sold out

but only because hatton and oscar were fightin. they had an established fan base before the fight.

in previous PBF fights, there were a lot of empty seats at the stadiums and the PPV numbers were 250K - 400K at best

Floyf got credit for his fight against hatton and oscar but the oscar fight was a split decision and he made hatton go up in weight

furthermore he chose not to fight the best at the time includding margarito, mosley, cotto and paul williams

also you have resorted to draggin other sports into the mix because you've ran out of justifications why PBF is great

do you really think peyton manning is a good arguement in a boxing forum?

poor form
IkeB2
QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 14 2009, 09:58 PM) *
your arguments are pointless and secondly your response left itself open because you started mentioning other things like opponets he has fought

a lot of good fighters that lose go on to become much better fighters

but just to provide some perspective tell me an undefeated fighter that PBF fought

apart from Hatton that he made move up in weight, Hatton was never comfortbale at welterweight which is why he barely fougth there. making Hatton move up was to ensure he would win and Hatton was more than competitive until he got stopped

now lets look at your theory that pac shouldnt get credit cause PBF already defeated them

well look at PBF's oppnents hadnt they been defeated before? wouldnt that mean according to your logic that he shouldnt get credit for it?

also you completey ignored my response with the top contednders at that time

do you really think Zab is better than Kostya? if i remember correctly Kostya slapped Zab around

also are you serious with PBF fighting small guys?

small guys would be 140, marquez only had two fights at lightweight

do you not see how ridiculous that statement is?

even if he fought smaller guys it would be ok but featherweights?

pac gets credit for fighting and beating bigger guys

apart from oscar who was a part time boxer not in his prime PBF has not fought bigger guys

also it was a split decision against Oscar



You guys need to learn how to read. The names were to illustrate guys with knockout power, not great fighter. Who has beat and undefeated fighter? Last time I checked, PBF, Hatton and Cotto were the only undefeated star boxers last year and PBF beat Hatton and Cotto lost to Margarito. So, tell me who has beaten anyone with an undefeated record besides PBF and Margarito? You people just don't like him because he talks a lot and he is black....period. Regardless of what you say....Pac fought a bigger man but the bigger men didn't get talked about for fighting a smaller man. But if PBF fights "smaller fighters" you guys want to say he sucks. If it's good for everyone else, it should be good for Floyd.
traced4040
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 14 2009, 10:06 PM) *
Couldn't read it...your link is bad.



Tszyu was with Showtime and Mayweather was with HBO, making the fight nearly impossible to make.

Floyd ASKED to fight Cotto at 140, but Arum REFUSED to make the fight.

Floyd ASKED to fight Hatton at 140, but Hatton REFUSED to take the fight, saying he needed more time before stepping up.



When Floyd fought Mitchell, the "top man" was Zab Judah.

Cotto didn't move up to welterweight until December of 2006 and at that time, Floyd was already slated to fight Oscar.

Mosley was too busy fighting Vargas and other 154 lbers. Mayweather even called him out after the Bruseles fight (2005), but to no avail. Even when Mosley had an opportunity to say he wanted the fight, he chose to mention a toothache and a vacation instead.

Paul Williams was still a relative unknown. He didn't even fight his first big name opponent (Sharmba Mitchell) until August of 2006 (a year after Floyd fougth Sharmba) and he didn't get his biggest win (Antonio Margarito) until July of 2007 (two months after Floyd was fighting Oscar).

The only "top man" you can really point to and say Floyd didn't fight him is Antonio Margarito, but honestly, that fight didn't even become a possibility until Floyd left Bob Arum AFTER the Zab Judah fight. Up until that point, Bob Arum wasn't interested in putting Floyd in the ring with Margarito.

Like I said, I didn't read the article, but I assume it's trying to descredit Floyd's resume by pointing out names of guys he could have fought...which is cool and all, but you also have to consider that there's a lot more to it than just naming names and accusing a fighter of ducking them. If you do your research, you'll understand that there's a lot of reasons why most of those fights didn't happen and Floyd isn't the person to blame for many of them.

"I want to fight the best out there. I would love to fight Kostya Tszyu, Arturo Gatti, the best out there. I hear that Shane Mosley is coming down to 147. I hear Oscar De La Hoya is coming down to 147. Floyd Mayweather is willing to go to 147 to fight Shane Mosley or Oscar De La Hoya." - Floyd Mayweather Jr., January 22, 2005



Other guys Floyd called out after fights:





hey hype

http://queensberry-rules.com/2009/05/kindl...r-jrs-jock.html

http://queensberry-rules.com/2009/05/
kindly-remove-yourself-from-floyd-mayweather-jrs-jock.html


try the link now

i agree on some points you said

but i still feel if he really wanted to fight those guys he could have

you and i both know that what is said in the press and the truth is shadyat best in boxing

but at the end of the day he didnt fight them and has no right to be called the gretaest ever

who he did fight where lesser opponens and i dont believe for one second hatton would want to fight PBF at 147

that had to be on PBF's terms

also he fought Zab after Zab lost the title to baldomir and whilst he went on to fight Baldomir, i think he took advantage of Zab coming off a loss

i wont say he ducked these fighters but he didnt fight them

and no i dont believe that what PBF says is what he truly wants

traced4040
QUOTE (IkeB2 @ Jun 14 2009, 10:09 PM) *
You guys need to learn how to read. The names were to illustrate guys with knockout power, not great fighter. Who has beat and undefeated fighter? Last time I checked, PBF, Hatton and Cotto were the only undefeated star boxers last year and PBF beat Hatton and Cotto lost to Margarito. So, tell me who has beaten anyone with an undefeated record besides PBF and Margarito? You people just don't like him because he talks a lot and he is black....period. Regardless of what you say....Pac fought a bigger man but the bigger men didn't get talked about for fighting a smaller man. But if PBF fights "smaller fighters" you guys want to say he sucks. If it's good for everyone else, it should be good for Floyd.


the whole undefeated thing was my point exactly

you used it to say pac shouldnt get credit because PBF already beat oscar and hatton

and now your saying??? well i dont know what your saying anymore

PBF isnt disliked for talking trash

he is disliked for talking trash and not backing it up

how many hall of famers has PBF fought? how many in their prime?

i cant blive you still dont get it

PBF marquex difference is like a heavywieght fighting a welterweight

do you not understand?

i didnt like the whole pac vs oscar match up but oscar did it for the money

PBF is doing this and saying that marquez is his best challenger

are you serious? he think marquez is more dangerous than Mosley or cotto or Paul Williams?

traced4040
QUOTE (IkeB2 @ Jun 14 2009, 10:09 PM) *
You guys need to learn how to read. The names were to illustrate guys with knockout power, not great fighter.


you also pointed out why PBF doesnt get much love

your right Gatti, Hatton, Juddah and Phillip Ndou arent great fighters

so you just proved my point that he didnt fight those that were the best at that time
provo
If mayweather would have fought Margacheto ,everyone would have been like "well who's margarito beat" baldomir was the ring welterweight champion.so floyd took that fight as well as 8 mill.mayweather will never get respect,the man wants the biggest names in boxing .
Lil-lightsout
I am not saying I know all about boxing, but alot of the stuff mainly in Mayweather threads is garbage. It just gets ridiculous and it very easy to see who really follows the sport and makes solid points on either side, and it is even easier to see the clueless with there worthless posts and lack of knowledge of fighters or the game.

I do make jokes in posts occasionally about fighters and the sport, but some of the stuff that people seriously say are off the wall.
thehype
QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 14 2009, 11:17 PM) *
but i still feel if he really wanted to fight those guys he could have


I disagree. The only fight that he could have made if he really wanted to was the Margarito fight...that's it.

The networks prevented the Kostya Tszyu fight from happening, Bob Arum prevented the Cotto fight from happening and Ricky Hatton himself prevented the Hatton fight from happening sooner. I don't know how you think Floyd can control the neworks, Bob Arum and Ricky Hatton.

Same with Mosley. Mosley wasn't interested in making that fight until AFTER he fought Collazo and the two actually began negotiations to make the fight, but Mosley got trumped when his boss, De La Hoya, decided to take the fight instead. That's not Floyd faults...that's Mosley's poor timing. And you can't really blame him for not fighting Paul Williams either as Williams just simply wasn't a "force" until AFTER he beat Margarito in July of 2007. By the time, Floyd was getting ready to fight Hatton, a guy that you just accused him of ducking at 140. And then, even after Williams became a "force" at 147, he turned around and lost to Quintana the fight after that in February of 2008 so people had their doubts as to how good he really was. I don't know how you can blame Mayweather for a Paul Williams fight not happening when Paul Williams was still trying to prove that he belonged to be mentioned as one of the best.

I'm not saying that Floyd should be called the greatest ever...far from it...but again, I don't think he should be getting blamed for fights not happening when the fact of the matter is that a lot of those fights didn't happen because of other circumstances...not because Floyd simply chose not to make them. That's naive statement. The truth and the facts are out there if you know where to look for them and I can tell you right now that reading someone's opinionated article is usually not where you're going to find them.

QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 14 2009, 11:17 PM) *
i wont say he ducked these fighters but he didnt fight them


You might as well say he ducked them though as that's obviously what you're implying. I mean, I can point to a lot of guys that other fighters should have fought. Oscar De La Hoya should have fought Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright. Manny Pacquiao should have fought Joel Casamayor, Humberto Soto, Joan Guzman and Nate Campbell. Does that mean they ducked them? No...of course not...there were just other circumstances (like bigger paydays) that prevented those fights from happening.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (IkeB2 @ Jun 15 2009, 03:59 AM) *
You are one of the dumbest people I heard/read comment on boxing and PBF. His fights have sold out in minutes. You are comparing a country with one great fighter and boxing being the sport to watch now, vs America with 10 big boxing names and golf, football, baseball, nascar, basketball and hokey as a sport.


You can call me dumb all you like it is no skin off my nose. I know boxing well enough to have the respect of most people on here in regards to my knowledge. I admit I can get a bit irrational when it comes to mayweather but that is life. I can't stand the prick.

His most recent fight on sale did not sell out in minutes nor days or even weeks. What is your point?

Stop beating around the bush here sunshine.

England which has just as much sport yet when Ricky Hatton or Calzaghe fight they sell out arenas in minutes. Sure they may have only had two great fighters but considering they have a population 1/5 the size of the USA that equates to 10 big names.......

In Germany they get 60,000 people to a Klit fight & when their world champions fight it is to a packed football stadium not a basketball or hockey stadium but a football stadium.

Do you see where this is going yet?

DLH sells out arenas in minutes PBF does not end of story.
traced4040
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 14 2009, 11:22 PM) *
You might as well say he ducked them though as that's obviously what you're implying. I mean, I can point to a lot of guys that other fighters should have fought. Oscar De La Hoya should have fought Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright. Manny Pacquiao should have fought Joel Casamayor, Humberto Soto, Joan Guzman and Nate Campbell. Does that mean they ducked them? No...of course not...there were just other circumstances (like bigger paydays) that prevented those fights from happening.



what you have said is totally plausible

but you missed my point

if you look back at my posts you will see that despite the fact that i dont like PBF i do respect him

i have also defended him at times and thought the baldomir fight was a better move in terms of money than the hype that was building for margarito

i was sincere when i said he didnt duck them but the fact is he didnt fight them, telling larry merchant you want to fight them is a lot easier than actually fighting them

at the end of the day he did not fight the top guys, even if it wasnt his fault you cant say that he did.

PBF legacy is built upon his "0" and his constant bragging that he's beaten the best

that is the thing that i chose to debate

the question remains does his sublime skills hold true against the relentless pressure of kostya, the size of margarito and mosley or the punching output of pwill

also whislt it was hattons fault for not taking the fight sooner, explain why PBF didnt fight it at 140 to take hatton's lineal crown?

lastly i dont understand the truth is out there. do you mean i need to read a "opinionated" article defending floyd? isnt that hypocrisy?

im not saying that the article was completely right but i cant believe you would so openly dismiss it when it raises good valid points

you cant argue that those guys he mentioned where the best or percieved best at that time

at the end of the day no-one really knows

the only thing that holds true is PBF never fought those guys


STEVENSKI
QUOTE (IkeB2 @ Jun 15 2009, 04:09 AM) *
Who has beat and undefeated fighter? Last time I checked, PBF, Hatton and Cotto were the only undefeated star boxers last year and PBF beat Hatton and Cotto lost to Margarito. So, tell me who has beaten anyone with an undefeated record besides PBF and Margarito? You people just don't like him because he talks a lot and he is black....period.


Stop bringing the Race card into play. No one was asking or cares about a fighter being undefeated although Pavlik was another undefeated player who got a 1 in the L column as did Paul Williams (although not a star in a lot of eyes). That is not a part of this discusion just like the colour of a fighters skin is not up for discusion here.

Stop changing the subject to your wild & unfounded accusations of racism.

traced4040
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 15 2009, 01:01 AM) *
Stop bringing the Race card into play. No one was asking or cares about a fighter being undefeated although Pavlik was another undefeated player who got a 1 in the L column as did Paul Williams (although not a star in a lot of eyes). That is not a part of this discusion just like the colour of a fighters skin is not up for discusion here.

Stop changing the subject to your wild & unfounded accusations of racism.



ive heard the race card before..... many a times

but peyton manning as an excuse???? WTF

next thing Brett Favre will get blamed some how
torvix2000
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 15 2009, 04:22 AM) *
You might as well say he ducked them though as that's obviously what you're implying. I mean, I can point to a lot of guys that other fighters should have fought. Oscar De La Hoya should have fought Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright. Manny Pacquiao should have fought Joel Casamayor, Humberto Soto, Joan Guzman and Nate Campbell. Does that mean they ducked them? No...of course not...there were just other circumstances (like bigger paydays) that prevented those fights from happening.


Well, if Gayweather wanted to, statistically speaking he could have fought the top guys.

The article is not even an opinion. It is a fact the more you read it. So here's the link again.

http://queensberry-rules.com/2009/05/kindl...r-jrs-jock.html
torvix2000
QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 15 2009, 04:55 AM) *
also whislt it was hattons fault for not taking the fight sooner, explain why PBF didnt fight it at 140 to take hatton's lineal crown?


Considering that Gayweather's fans (under his jock) are saying that PBF isn't a big guy when discussions involve Paul Williams. So Gayweather can make 140 easy.
torvix2000
Arum now has order from Pacman's camp to make the Cotto fight!!!

http://www.examiner.com/x-5699-NY-Boxing-E...acquiaoCotto-on
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