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Box in Hand
So it has been said that Pacman ordered Arum to set up a fight with Cotto. It is my humble opinion that Manny saw what I saw and that was that Cotto is a wounded duck. He did not look like the invincible world beater people made him out to be just a few fights ago. He looked slow and didn't look like he had much pop on his punches. He is also becoming a bleeder who swells up too quickly. I'm not sure how I feel about this fight but I will pick Pacman to win. Cotto looks like he is on the decline.
torvix2000
Another cherry picked opponent for Pacman. Cotto would look like DLH against Pac. He's gonna hit air all night long. Assuming his face doesn't get busted up. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons Gayweather decided to "postpone" his fight with Marquez is that he's thinking he should have sched a fight with either Cotto or Pac. But it's too late. Pac will beat the man he avoided.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Jun 15 2009, 08:45 AM) *
So it has been said that Pacman ordered Arum to set up a fight with Cotto. It is my humble opinion that Manny saw what I saw and that was that Cotto is a wounded duck. He did not look like the invincible world beater people made him out to be just a few fights ago. He looked slow and didn't look like he had much pop on his punches. He is also becoming a bleeder who swells up too quickly. I'm not sure how I feel about this fight but I will pick Pacman to win. Cotto looks like he is on the decline.


No one looks like they have much pop against a turtle shell defense like Clottey's but if you look closely alot of Cotto's punches were getting through and pushing him back. What do you mean "becoming a bleeder"? It was caused by a headbutt, don't make him out to be Arturo Gatti. LOL anything to discredit Pacquiao. The guy would be taking on a hardhitting skilled REAL welterweight and you have to complain.
Box in Hand
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Jun 15 2009, 09:07 AM) *
No one looks like they have much pop against a turtle shell defense like Clottey's but if you look closely alot of Cotto's punches were getting through and pushing him back. What do you mean "becoming a bleeder"? It was caused by a headbutt, don't make him out to be Arturo Gatti. LOL anything to discredit Pacquiao. The guy would be taking on a hardhitting skilled REAL welterweight and you have to complain.



Pac and Roach aren't stupid. They see something like some of us see something and that is there are "Holes" in Cotto's game now. He is slow and retreats under fire. Yes the headbutt caused the cut but the scar tissues is starting to amass on his face which means he'll bleed easier (Mark my words). Either way, I'm going with Pac on this based on how vulnerable Cotto looked on Saturday (I thought Clottey won that fight). The fight was close but Cotto got a gift from Arum who wanted this fight to happen.
thehype
laugh.gif

EVERY opponent for Manny Pacquiao is going to be cherrypicked since he's now in the position to pick and choose whatever opponent he wants.

laugh.gif

I don't really mind the cherrypicking...what I don't like is having these guys drain themselves to make a catchweight.

But hey, I guess I can't really complain so those guys are making the decision to do it.

Manny will beat Cotto...I can already see Roach and Moorer having him working on his uppercuts in training.

laugh.gif
torvix2000
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 15 2009, 02:21 PM) *
I don't really mind the cherrypicking...what I don't like is having these guys drain themselves to make a catchweight.


That's why it's called cherrypicking! If at 147, then it won't be cherrypicking.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (thehype @ Jun 15 2009, 10:21 AM) *
laugh.gif

EVERY opponent for Manny Pacquiao is going to be cherrypicked since he's now in the position to pick and choose whatever opponent he wants.

laugh.gif

I don't really mind the cherrypicking...what I don't like is having these guys drain themselves to make a catchweight.

But hey, I guess I can't really complain so those guys are making the decision to do it.

Manny will beat Cotto...I can already see Roach and Moorer having him working on his uppercuts in training.

laugh.gif




Hype your my dude but I'm rooting for Cotto in this one. Team Pac is full of shit! How can you call yourself the best if your clearly cherry picking the wounded. Not even Floyd can be accused of that. I think this is the first time in history this shit has been done and it's not a good look for boxing. Beat the guy at his best or fight the guys @ 140 and below. I hope Cotto heals, gets himself together and stomps a mud hole in Pac's little ass. Got love for Pac but their full of shit. What would the flakes be saying if Paul Williams wanted to fight Jermaine Taylor @ 156 right now?
Keith
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 15 2009, 01:21 PM) *
Hype your my dude but I'm rooting for Cotto in this one. Team Pac is full of shit! How can you call yourself the best if your clearly cherry picking the wounded. Not even Floyd can be accused of that. I think this is the first time in history this shit has been done and it's not a good look for boxing. Beat the guy at his best or fight the guys @ 140 and below. I hope Cotto heals, gets himself together and stomps a mud hole in Pac's little ass. Got love for Pac but their full of shit. What would the flakes be saying if Paul Williams wanted to fight Jermaine Taylor @ 156 right now?

they would be saying "great, i get to see pwill fight. i will take what i can get". lol
Mean Mister Mustard
Cotto beats Clottey and he's a wounded duck all of a sudden? Surreal.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Jun 15 2009, 01:40 PM) *
Cotto beats Clottey and he's a wounded duck all of a sudden? Surreal.



I don't think he's a wounded duck at all but team Pac seems to think so. I think if his cut heals properly and his head is together he's gonna kick Pacquiao's ass. Clottey's a big dude and a very underrated boxer with damn good defense. Team Pac thinks depleting Cotto and attacking that scar tissue is gonna get it done. I think when Cotto catches him with those sledge hammers we're gonna see what Pacquiao is really made of and those body shots will stop all that speedy gonzales shit. Hopefully Cotto isn't war torn cause he's been in some and that seems to be what Team Pac is banking on which is fucked up. Pacquiao couldn't hold Duran's jockstrap!
Box in Hand
Here's why I call Cotto a wounded duck and I feel Pac and Roach feel the same or they wouldn't be taking this fight.

1. He got damaged in the Margarito fight.

2. He took a lot of punishment in the Clottey fight and is accumlating a lot of scar tissue.

3. He looks very slow compared to the way he was pre-Margs. Anyone that can hang with Mosely has to have speed.


This may or may not be true but Roach doesn't put Pac in with people he thinks he can't win against. He saw Oscar was old and couldn't pull the trigger and Hatton was tailor made for Pac. This is a case of the wolves smelling the blood.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Jun 15 2009, 01:40 PM) *
Cotto beats Clottey and he's a wounded duck all of a sudden? Surreal.


You make a good point. Though I think Cotto did not look like the pre-Margarito Cotto, he did fight a top tough welterweight and beat him. Now I know it was a controversial decision, but Cotto did win a very close fight. A pac fight is a totally different style match-up too than he had with Clottey. I mean Cotto deserves alot of credit for fighting with that nasty huge cut for 3/4 of the fight. I mean that sure could not have helped his performance. Too many people want to write off fighters after a subpar performance, me included sometimes, but we really do not know how well Cotto could match-up with Pacman. I mean Cotto had disadvantages against Clottey in speed,jab,size or height, etc. Cotto could maybe fight a better fight against Pac, and his punches will have more effect on Pac than they did Clottey. I mean I always thought Cotto would stop Pac, and I questioned his performance Saturday night too, and now think Pac has a better chance than I originally thought he did. But I still think Cotto should not be written off for his fight with Clottey, and maybe next time out we will see a spectacular performance by him?

Remember just about everybody writing off Mosley after his performance against Mayorga? He is done, Margarito is going to kill him. Remember? Look what happened, he got a new trainer refound himself and put on one of his best performances ever. And of course there is the style match-up too, so you are not always going to see the samething from a certain fighter time and time again.
Sugar Q
At the same time there's a reason why Pacquaio wants no part of Mosley but Cotto was able to outbox and hang with the speed of Mosley so if Cotto gets the proper rest, heals up and isn't messed up from all the wars he's gonna get Pacquaio. This time it wont be a strong, 170 pound physical specimen (gotta throw a pause clause up in there).
JLUVBABY
if this is the fight thats next for cotto (pac).. he needs a long rest maybe a few months then go into a very good training camp... cotto looked like a beaten up fighter saturday night and is lucky clottey didnt have what it took to turn up the heat or he would have gotten beat...
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Jun 15 2009, 02:14 PM) *
Pac and Roach aren't stupid. They see something like some of us see something and that is there are "Holes" in Cotto's game now.



Sheyit there have always been holes in Cottos game. This is nothing new it has just become more apparent since he took his licks against Margarito.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 15 2009, 05:21 PM) *
Hype your my dude but I'm rooting for Cotto in this one. Team Pac is full of shit! How can you call yourself the best if your clearly cherry picking the wounded. Not even Floyd can be accused of that. I think this is the first time in history this shit has been done and it's not a good look for boxing. Beat the guy at his best or fight the guys @ 140 and below. I hope Cotto heals, gets himself together and stomps a mud hole in Pac's little ass. Got love for Pac but their full of shit. What would the flakes be saying if Paul Williams wanted to fight Jermaine Taylor @ 156 right now?



Give it up Sugar & change your name to Sour. How is Cotto "wounded"? He beat one of the top fighters at 147. You are a strange man indeed. Maybe if Cotto took a thrashing & was knocked out for 10 minutes & Pac wanted to make a fight with him you would have a point but he "won" a close fight.

Don't bring PW into things he is not a star by any measure & nor is Taylor.

QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 15 2009, 05:51 PM) *
I don't think he's a wounded duck at all but team Pac seems to think so.


See the bold above. You say Cotto who won last weekend is "wounded" but then 30 minutes later he is not wounded? make your mind up goddamit!
traced4040
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 15 2009, 12:21 PM) *
Hype your my dude but I'm rooting for Cotto in this one. Team Pac is full of shit! How can you call yourself the best if your clearly cherry picking the wounded. Not even Floyd can be accused of that. I think this is the first time in history this shit has been done and it's not a good look for boxing. Beat the guy at his best or fight the guys @ 140 and below. I hope Cotto heals, gets himself together and stomps a mud hole in Pac's little ass. Got love for Pac but their full of shit. What would the flakes be saying if Paul Williams wanted to fight Jermaine Taylor @ 156 right now?



Firstly pac has ever calle dhimself the best

hs people may have and others in the press has but he himself hasnt

also Cotto won right? and to say Cotto is not a dangerous fighter is stupid

he doesnt look as good as pre-margs but pac came back from that contreversial win over marquez and mosley over the loss to mayorga

but just to show how absurd your statement is, who should pac face instead? do you think valero would be a bettermatch up as he isnt wounded?

last time i checked most boxers get injured in a match win lose or draw

not even floyd can be accused of that???????

really????? Zab Judah not meaning anything to you?

PBF fought him after zab had lost to baldomir

sharmba mitchell won his previous fight but just before that he got pummeled by kostya tyzu and knocked down 4 times

henry bruseles was coming off a draw

and demarcus corley was beaten by zab judah


QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 15 2009, 12:21 PM) *
I think this is the first time in history this shit has been done and it's not a good look for boxing.


ithink that is one of the silliest quotes i read on this forum

firslty boxing has always been shady

and secondly since when is taking a fight with a recognised welterwegiht champion (bad performance aside) a cowardly thing to do?

doesnt cotto hold the belt?

doesnt cotto only have one possibly tainted loss?

are you seriosuly going to criticse a flyweight for making a welterweight shed 3 pounds just to make PBF look good?

are you serious??????
traced4040
there are holes in everyboys game

PBF for all his defence is not pverly offensive which results in a lot of decisions

Pac goes forward recklessly

Pwill is overly offensive

at the end fo the day knowing there is a flaw and exploiting that flaw are two different things

it takes a great boxer to win

if all it takes was to recognise a flaw then the fighters shouldnt even bother fightin

Sugar Q
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 15 2009, 07:56 PM) *
Give it up Sugar & change your name to Sour. How is Cotto "wounded"? He beat one of the top fighters at 147. You are a strange man indeed. Maybe if Cotto took a thrashing & was knocked out for 10 minutes & Pac wanted to make a fight with him you would have a point but he "won" a close fight.

Don't bring PW into things he is not a star by any measure & nor is Taylor.



See the bold above. You say Cotto who won last weekend is "wounded" but then 30 minutes later he is not wounded? make your mind up goddamit!



I think I explained that I don't think Cotto is wounded but Team Pacquiao does. Their going after fighters they feel are wounded. I think Cotto wins this fight. I think being in with Pacquiao wont be nearly as tough as being in with Clottey and Mosley.
traced4040
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 15 2009, 07:25 PM) *
I think I explained that I don't think Cotto is wounded but Team Pacquiao does. Their going after fighters they feel are wounded. I think Cotto wins this fight. I think being in with Pacquiao wont wont be nearly as dangerous as being in with Clottey and Mosley.


if you think he isnt wounded (which i dont) then whats your argument against the fight?

oh wait .................. now i get it

you think people should fight people that they dont think they can beat

just for shits and giggles

thats a great strategy, lets go against fighters that will pummel us

how about evander holyfield or one of the klitscho brothers

if manny thinks he can beat him then i say prove it

but you seem to be against it cause its not what PBF would do

i guess your right there

PBF will take on a lightweight instead
Boxingjunkie
Pac vs. Cotto is a great match up. Cotto looked good against Clottey, not great, but good. The cut had the most to do with that. Cotto is a legitimate welter and Manny is moving around weights fighting who he wants. Picking your opponents is part of boxing. They all do it when they get to the top. Floyd has been doing it for years. Pac and Cotto are two of the nicest and down to earth guys in boxing. Neither ever brags and that is why this fight will make a ton of money. People respect them. Its sad that they both get bashed just because they dont talk a lot of trash.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 16 2009, 12:25 AM) *
I think I explained that I don't think Cotto is wounded but Team Pacquiao does. Their going after fighters they feel are wounded. I think Cotto wins this fight. I think being in with Pacquiao wont wont be nearly as tough as being in with Clottey and Mosley.



Nope they are going after fighters they think will make the biggest PPV #'s most money & bring the biggest gate. They also spot flaws & every fighter has flaws believe it or not & Roach will base the gameplan around those flaws.

Considering the fact that Cotto just had a big success financially & PBF's ticket sales tanked it makes sense to make a Cotto vs Pac fight.

Pac should have a fight in the Philipines on a Sunday afternoon to time in with the networks in the USA & give his people a chance to see him shine. He would sell out a arena that would seat 100,000 in less time than it takes certain other fighters to wipe their arse.
Douchebag
People forget to mention that Cotto could not see right hands for 9 fucking rounds, and was the first time fighting with out his uncle against one of THE best welters in Clottey of course he is going to look like shit. Cotto needs to get a real team around him ASAP. The only thing that I wish Cotto would have did against Clottey is not let him off the hook when he had him against the ropes. Even if Cotto wasn't throwing much, he still should have kept him there. Cotto let him off the hook to many times and because of that, the fight was closer than it should have been. Cotto received most of the damage from a the head butt in the third, Cotto was never hurt, never wobbled, in fact it was Clottey that was scared to open up because he felt the power and when he got buzzed.
D-MARV
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 15 2009, 09:21 PM) *
People forget to mention that Cotto could not see right hands for 9 fucking rounds, and was the first time fighting with out his uncle against one of THE best welters in Clottey of course he is going to look like shit. Cotto needs to get a real team around him ASAP. The only thing that I wish Cotto would have did against Clottey is not let him off the hook when he had him against the ropes. Even if Cotto wasn't throwing much, he still should have kept him there. Cotto let him off the hook to many times and because of that, the fight was closer than it should have been. Cotto received most of the damage from a the head butt in the third, Cotto was never hurt, never wobbled, in fact it was Clottey that was scared to open up because he felt the power and when he got buzzed.

Great Point!

Cotto only had one eye for most of the fight. He fought extremely well considering the conditions.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jun 16 2009, 02:23 AM) *
Great Point!

Cotto only had one eye for most of the fight. He fought extremely well considering the conditions.


Yeah well he got two ears I got one eye!
D-MARV
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Jun 15 2009, 09:32 PM) *
Yeah well he got two ears I got one eye!

Cotto is only half the warrior you are.
STEVENSKI
"He don wanna fight"
Box in Hand
Freddie Roach loves Pac like a son and he really didn't want him fighting De la Hoya because of the size (Do the research before you say I'm crazy). Once he was sure De la Hoya was gun shy he felt better about the fight. I know Cotto's a good fighter but damn he lost something. He's been balls to walls for years and that ages a fighter. His jab looked like it lost speed and his feet looked heavy. That is why I say he's a wounded duck plus all those right hand shots he took and all of the scar tissue he has. He looks like lunch to Pac and unless Cotto gets some rest and or a better training camp he will indeed be lunch like Pacman pellets.
AussieLad
Yep, i guess an argument can be made that pac is cherrypicking opponents just like floyd...

The difference being that pac is cherrypicking cotto, a guy mayweather avoided...

Pac is cherrypicking a legit welter, whereas floyd is cherrypicking a guy who has never fought higher than 135...

Pac is cherrypicking a guy who has a decent chance of beating him, whereas marquez has 0 chance of beating floyd

Anyway you cut it... floyd is still p4p no.1 of the cherrypickers
Sugar Q
QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 15 2009, 08:37 PM) *
if you think he isnt wounded (which i dont) then whats your argument against the fight?

oh wait .................. now i get it

you think people should fight people that they dont think they can beat

just for shits and giggles

thats a great strategy, lets go against fighters that will pummel us

how about evander holyfield or one of the klitscho brothers

if manny thinks he can beat him then i say prove it

but you seem to be against it cause its not what PBF would do

i guess your right there

PBF will take on a lightweight instead



Dude I think this is a very good fight without all the BS attached to it. If its gonna be for Cotto's WBO belt I think the WBO should intervene and throw out the catch weight BS so we can see what's really good. It's the games Team Pacquiao are playing that I dont think is good for boxing. We love Sugar Ray Robinson because when he went up to fight the Lt-heavy-wt champion he went up without all these BS mind games team Pac likes to play. Roy didn't tell Ruiz he has to come down to 200 or no fight. A truly great fighter wouldn't try to handicap another fighter before a fight and Pacquiao is just as guilty as Margarito was cause he knows whats going on. The true All Time Greats wouldn't do this BS.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 16 2009, 03:41 AM) *
A truly great fighter wouldn't try to handicap another fighter before a fight and Pacquiao is just as guilty as Margarito was cause he knows whats going on.


Now I have heard it all. Comparing loaded wraps to a catchweight is truly pathetic. Sugar please have a sleep & look at the absolute crap you have written in teh morning.
traced4040
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 15 2009, 10:41 PM) *
Dude I think this is a very good fight without all the BS attached to it. If its gonna be for Cotto's WBO belt I think the WBO should intervene and throw out the catch weight BS so we can see what's really good. It's the games Team Pacquiao are playing that I dont think is good for boxing. We love Sugar Ray Robinson because when he went up to fight the Lt-heavy-wt champion he went up without all these BS mind games team Pac likes to play. Roy didn't tell Ruiz he has to come down to 200 or no fight. A truly great fighter wouldn't try to handicap another fighter before a fight and Pacquiao is just as guilty as Margarito was cause he knows whats going on. The true All Time Greats wouldn't do this BS.



What games are Pac's team trying to play?

setting up a catch weight?

are you serious?

do you know why there are weight divisions? (if you dont know, which i assume you dont, its for safety reasons)

do you realise that a catch weight is simply a weight that both fighters can make

would you prefer pac make cotto go down to 140?

i for one dont think pac is a 147 fighter and he was under in the DLH fight

so if you think its going to be a good fight then shouldnt cotto go down as pac cant go up?

like i said catch weight is supposed to be more advantageous to both fighters that realistically cant make the proper weight division

do you realise that sugar ray robnson fought in multiple divisions that saw him go from welterweight to middleweight and back down to welterweight????

the same with duran and bascially the same with most other great fighters

they fought people who mattrered and went up and down weight to take onthe fights

you bring out these names but dont really argue other than they took on fighters at heavier weights than where they started. pretty much all fighters do. actually pretty much everyone grows up. im pretty sure its a natural thing

do you realise at what weight pac started at?

do you really think he can be competitive above 147

look at it this way, Hatton started at 140 and stayed there, if he did what pac did and grow into it better then he could ave fought at light middleweight or atleast tried harder at welterweright

he stayed there becasue he wasnt competitive at above 140

now if you look at cotto, cotto used to be dominant at 140 and that wasnt that long ago, to think that isnt going to be a tough fight for pac or anyone else is ridiculous

you also have repeatedly avoided my responses about PBF

last i heard, (befreo the "postponent") that they fight might be at 144 with marquez who is a natural featherwight

where were you when that happened???????

lastly its blatanly obvious your just nut huggin with the comparisons to margarito comment

its disgusting that you think a potentially lethal act is the same as roach trying to protect his fighter from harm
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (traced4040 @ Jun 16 2009, 03:02 AM) *
What games are Pac's team trying to play?

setting up a catch weight?

are you serious?

do you know why there are weight divisions? (if you dont know, which i assume you dont, its for safety reasons)

do you realise that a catch weight is simply a weight that both fighters can make

would you prefer pac make cotto go down to 140?

i for one dont think pac is a 147 fighter and he was under in the DLH fight

so if you think its going to be a good fight then shouldnt cotto go down as pac cant go up?

like i said catch weight is supposed to be more advantageous to both fighters that realistically cant make the proper weight division

do you realise that sugar ray robnson fought in multiple divisions that saw him go from welterweight to middleweight and back down to welterweight????

the same with duran and bascially the same with most other great fighters

they fought people who mattrered and went up and down weight to take onthe fights

you bring out these names but dont really argue other than they took on fighters at heavier weights than where they started. pretty much all fighters do. actually pretty much everyone grows up. im pretty sure its a natural thing

do you realise at what weight pac started at?

do you really think he can be competitive above 147

look at it this way, Hatton started at 140 and stayed there, if he did what pac did and grow into it better then he could ave fought at light middleweight or atleast tried harder at welterweright

he stayed there becasue he wasnt competitive at above 140

now if you look at cotto, cotto used to be dominant at 140 and that wasnt that long ago, to think that isnt going to be a tough fight for pac or anyone else is ridiculous

you also have repeatedly avoided my responses about PBF

last i heard, (befreo the "postponent") that they fight might be at 144 with marquez who is a natural featherwight

where were you when that happened???????

lastly its blatanly obvious your just nut huggin with the comparisons to margarito comment

its disgusting that you think a potentially lethal act is the same as roach trying to protect his fighter from harm



Yeah Sugar always conveniently forgets that his boy Fraud was all set to fight JMM at a catchweight. I bet Sugar wishes he was a girl just so he could date Fraud and then have the honour of getting the bash from the former p4p champ. LOL

Don't take much notice notice of what Sugar says, Fraud could fight Ivan Claderon next and he would still find a way to defend it.
traced4040
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Jun 16 2009, 03:48 AM) *
Yeah Sugar always conveniently forgets that his boy Fraud was all set to fight JMM at a catchweight. I bet Sugar wishes he was a girl just so he could date Fraud and then have the honour of getting the bash from the former p4p champ. LOL

Don't take much notice notice of what Sugar says, Fraud could fight Ivan Claderon next and he would still find a way to defend it.


yeah i know... its just really frustrating though

its one thing to say PBF is a great boxer

its another thing to try and discredit other fighters just to build him up
The Original MrFactor
Cotto is not damaged goods... He just went 12 rounds with a top 5 welterweight and IMO he lost, but was awarded a gift. Cotto didnt dominate because Clottey is that good. Freddie is definately fooling himself, if he thinks Cotto is damaged.

Cotto will dominate Manny Pacquiao. Cotto is possibly the most difficult guy Manny will face. Not only is Cotto going to be the bigger, stronger guy. he's in his prime and younger. He's very skilled. He has very good speed and he cab crack. Manny will wilt like Carlos Quintana did against Cotto.

To date Manny has made DLH and Hatton look like childs play. Both great wins, but I think Cotto dominates and stops both of them in similar fashion.
caneman
I personally think Pacman might be starting to go up too far in weight but man I have to hand it to the guy, @ least he is willing to fight those guys. It's going to be interesting if this fight comes off! On Cotto himself, I am noticing that he goes to the ropes too often almost like Jermain Taylor @ times...to me that means a top notch guy can put him on the ropes & then close the show! I like Cotto but if he goes to the ropes too much against the right guys, he might be taking a Roy Jones Jr style nap! lol!
torvix2000
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jun 16 2009, 10:39 AM) *
Cotto is not damaged goods... He just went 12 rounds with a top 5 welterweight and IMO he lost, but was awarded a gift. Cotto didnt dominate because Clottey is that good. Freddie is definately fooling himself, if he thinks Cotto is damaged.

Cotto will dominate Manny Pacquiao. Cotto is possibly the most difficult guy Manny will face. Not only is Cotto going to be the bigger, stronger guy. he's in his prime and younger. He's very skilled. He has very good speed and he cab crack. Manny will wilt like Carlos Quintana did against Cotto.

To date Manny has made DLH and Hatton look like childs play. Both great wins, but I think Cotto dominates and stops both of them in similar fashion.


Then if Pac beats Cotto, you won't complain about Cotto being washed up?
JaRaNDa
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 15 2009, 05:21 PM) *
I think this is the first time in history this shit has been done and it's not a good look for boxing. Beat the guy at his best or fight the guys @ 140 and below.



QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 16 2009, 02:41 AM) *
It's the games Team Pacquiao are playing that I dont think is good for boxing. We love Sugar Ray Robinson because when he went up to fight the Lt-heavy-wt champion he went up without all these BS mind games team Pac likes to play. Roy didn't tell Ruiz he has to come down to 200 or no fight.


I'm totally with you with this comments here and it these 'catchweight' fights really have me fired up now! If a particular fighter can't agree or physically make weight to fight the other then don't consider it at all!

Why is it alright for Manny not to fight at 147 because he aint a 147 fightter all of a sudden? But I guess he was a 147 fighter to fight a weight drained SHOT dlh for money! Although he has proven he has fought as a welterweight on fight night and has made welterweight limit in the past but he won't because Cotto, Mosley or any other welterweight won't have any unusual disadvantages come fight night? I can appreciate Manny resume and I don't like to say it but his win over Hatton does give him arguments for fights with Mosley, Cotto, Mayweather! but WHY make those fights if it's not at welter..if so should'nt pac stay at 140 and stay and fight there or move back down to 135?

I think these are legit question to be asked specially when it's the 'p4p #1' campaigning now at these weight divisions but won't fight any of those guys under normal circumstances ONLY unless they fight out of there normal fight weight? come on now..I just want to see meaningful, legit fair fights..that's all!
Keith
there are a lot of different ways you can look at this match up. what fighter has given pac the most trouble? jmm. what fighter has given cotto the most trouble? margs. cotto is much more like jmm then pac is like margs. and do you think jmm could beat cotto? i dont. i think cotto thrashes jmm. its tough to judge pac for me because his last 3 fights have been somewhat misleading.
JD
In Pacquiao’s only fight at welterweight, he weighed in at 142 pounds…1-4-2. He should NOT be fighting at welterweight, nor does he claim to be a welterweight.

It was a one shot deal to get at Oscar. When it comes to the Golden Boy, fighter make exceptions to fight him.
JaRaNDa
QUOTE (JD @ Jun 16 2009, 01:43 PM) *
In Pacquiao’s only fight at welterweight, he weighed in at 142 pounds…1-4-2. He should NOT be fighting at welterweight, nor does he claim to be a welterweight.


I'm not saying Pac 'claims' his a welter nor am I saying that's his natural or close to his best weight, it's more what some fans bring up as an argument.

Pac has proven he can fight at 147 only a months ago so it's nothing out of the question. My argument is why can't pac weigh 1-4-2 again to make fights with those top guys?? Instead the fight will only be made if any of those fighters come in at a disadvantage and loose weight? If not maybe Pac should take a step back a let the bigger boys fight eachother and instead concentrate on fighting fighters his willing to fight under normal circumstances!

I just think the way this 'catchweight' fights keep on going we should just fuck off all the divisions together and just pick boxers names out of a hat and match the ones that look good on 'paper'.
Keith
if 2 fighters agree at a catchweight, let em fight. nobody is forcing them to sign on the dotted line. in the case of pac vs cotto/mosley, the only prob i have with a catchweight is the title. it takes the drama out of pac trying to win a championship in a 6th division.
JD
QUOTE (JaRaNDa @ Jun 16 2009, 09:58 AM) *
I'm not saying Pac 'claims' his a welter nor am I saying that's his natural or close to his best weight, it's more what some fans bring up as an argument.

Pac has proven he can fight at 147 only a months ago so it's nothing out of the question. My argument is why can't pac weigh 1-4-2 again to make fights with those top guys?? Instead the fight will only be made if any of those fighters come in at a disadvantage and loose weight? If not maybe Pac should take a step back a let the bigger boys fight eachother and instead concentrate on fighting fighters his willing to fight under normal circumstances!

I just think the way this 'catchweight' fights keep on going we should just fuck off all the divisions together and just pick boxers names out of a hat and match the ones that look good on 'paper'.


He could do that, and if we weren't in the world of the day early weigh-in, I would think that he should...that said, I don't have an issue with catch weight fights if it means the best fighting the toughest opponents.
torvix2000
People can't seem to accept the fact that Pac weight 142 for a 147 fight. And he ate everything he wanted.

Both Pac and DLH fought at a catchweight. Just so happened that the catchweight is exactly 147. Why? Because DLH was at what weight before that and Pac was at what weight?

Pac even fought Hatton at 140 by weighing 138.

torvix2000
QUOTE (JD @ Jun 16 2009, 02:19 PM) *
He could do that, and if we weren't in the world of the day early weigh-in, I would think that he should..


Yeah. If these were yesteryears, IMHO Pac would fight Cotto and Mosley at 147.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Jun 16 2009, 11:07 AM) *
People can't seem to accept the fact that Pac weight 142 for a 147 fight. And he ate everything he wanted.

Both Pac and DLH fought at a catchweight. Just so happened that the catchweight is exactly 147. Why? Because DLH was at what weight before that and Pac was at what weight?

Pac even fought Hatton at 140 by weighing 138.


Many fighters have moved up in weight and fought. So many that I don't know where to start and all of them were at a weight disadvantage when they did. Many far more than 3 or 4 pounds. PBF fought Oscar weighing 150 to Oscar's solid 154. Let's be real about this Manny's f--king up the game with this BS. When 2 fighters come in at their best we get a great result with no excuses. That's what boxing has always been and that's what it should be. Agreeing on a catch weight is different from demanding one.
PR316
I'll say this, I think the cut on the eye affected Cotto alot in the Clottey fight. That being said, I do think Clottey edged it out and could have won convincingly if he stepped up his aggression. But thats over and done with. Cotto to his credit showed alot of heart and went 12 hard rounds with a top welterweight. Thats something Manny hasn't done yet.


This fight is hard to call. To me, Cotto is going to have to bring back his jab that he had pre Margarito if he's going to have a shot in this one. Pacman's speed is going to be a big problem and Miguel will have to take alot to get his in. He can definitley hurt Manny. But Manny can KO him IMO.


I lean towards Pacquiao for now but Im not 100 percent sure yet.
Box in Hand
It amazes me when people say Cotto isn't damaged goods. He has lost speed and that is evident and he seems to have lost his jab as well (He needs to find it). The thing that nuetralizes speed is a jab and if he can't put that jab out there over 12 rounds he's in trouble. Also, he needs to worry about cuts because Manny may not be able to KO him but those laser shots of his will be like death by paper cuts. Cotto got a blessing on Saturday both from the judges and Clottey. Clottey threw that fight away with inactivity (Ala, Winky Wright vs. Jermaine Taylor). Clottey had several chances to ice Cotto and didn't so shame on him. Cotto is wounded folks. He lost his head trainer, he took one of the worst ass whoopings I've seen in a long time, he has lost speed, and is accumalting lots of scar tissue. Manny and Roach smell some chicken. If Manny wins people will claim he is the next Henry Armstrong and that isn't accurate. Manny beat up a skeleton and a dumb ass who rushed in head first with no angles and no defense. The jury is still out on him beating elite welterweights. I'm a part time fighter due to work and family and with 6 weeks training I feel I could've beat those versions of De la Hoya and Hatton. So, Manny fight Shane at 147 and I'll be impressed.
Keith
what version of hatton are you talking about? there has only been one version of hatton and that guy had not been beaten at 140. hatton has weaknesses no doubt, but i dont think its fair to say it wasnt an impressive win from manny. why does manny have to fight shane at 147 to impress you? manny is a 5 division champ with claim to 4 lineal titles. he doesnt have to impress you and he can fight whoever he wants at this point.
Box in Hand
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 16 2009, 02:22 PM) *
what version of hatton are you talking about? there has only been one version of hatton and that guy had not been beaten at 140. hatton has weaknesses no doubt, but i dont think its fair to say it wasnt an impressive win from manny. why does manny have to fight shane at 147 to impress you? manny is a 5 division champ with claim to 4 lineal titles. he doesnt have to impress you and he can fight whoever he wants at this point.



Easy Cowboy. This is my opinion so if you don't like it bite a bullet. I think the Hatton win was not impressive at all! Hatton was tailored made for Manny and any intelligent person knows that. Manny can do whatever the fuck he wants, I'm just stating my opinion. I mean who the fuck are you, his male mistress? He needs to cut the catchweight shit out and fight Mosely OR Cotto at the proper weight.
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