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Sugar Q
Clottey's a talented dude but his lack of killer instinct and focus will get him destroyed against Paul Williams. I don't see this fight happening unless it's for the vacant title and Paul wants to get back into the mix @ 147. It's definitely not a big money fight so I don't see why Clottey would take the risk. Not only does Clottey seem to be lacking the eye of a tiger he also seems to be getting bad advice.
Keith
they are not even in the same league. think pwill beating wright... but much much worse.
salvador
I'd LOVE to see Clottey-Williams. And it's not like anyone else is begging to get in the ring with Williams.
D-MARV
Clottey has always welcomed the challenge. I give him credit for that!

Williams outworks him.
Lil-lightsout
They could fight at 154, I think it is an excellent match-up. PW would most likely win a comfortable decision, cause Paul would work over Clottey if he did too much of the earmuffs and not enough punching. Clotteys best and probably only real chance are to hope and hurt PW in an exchange. Clottey threw some really nice uppercuts early against Cotto. I would not mind if they made this fight. I mean who's PW going to fight next? I mean he just beat a 2 year on the shelf old Winky, and before that a n even older Phillips whose been through tons of wars. Is he going to chase down a fight with Roberto Duran next? hahahaha. Just kidding Demarv.
Jack 1000
Williams wins, but not as one sided as people might anticipate.

Jack
kingknockout
see this is the shit i like....i love a fighter that is willing to take on ANY challenge, man does clottey get new respect for me, i already liked him cus of that, but this.......this just makes me like him even more.

he's giving the sport and the fans what we want....real boxing competition
Sugar Q
I'd rather see Williams/Cintron or Williams/Martinez then Williams vs one of the champs at 160 unless Clottey beats one of the titleholders at 154.
JLUVBABY
clottey doesnt seem to have that third gear to me.... we shoulda/coulda been talking bout him as a winner right now but to me he just didnt have that extra gear... cotto was on the verge of being a beaten man and clottey couldnt bring him there for what ever reason... cotto looked similiar to the way he did in the marg. fight at times.. i just dont know why clottey didnt push the issue... i think he loses to williams and a few others because of his lack of killer instinct... i think teddy atlas said it the best when he said clottey lost his right to complain...
salvador
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jun 15 2009, 03:47 PM) *
Williams wins, but not as one sided as people might anticipate.

Jack


I agree and I think it's entirely possible that Clottey could be Williams' toughest challenge to date.
D-MARV
QUOTE (salvador @ Jun 15 2009, 07:22 PM) *
I agree and I think it's entirely possible that Clottey could be Williams' toughest challenge to date.

No. Paul toughest Challenge was the first Quintana fight. I don't see anything Clottey brings that Paul should fell threatend by. Williams wont be discouraged by Clottey's high guard. Clottey will get his forearms fucked up. Clottey wins 1 maybe 2 rounds.
salvador
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jun 15 2009, 06:29 PM) *
No. Paul toughest Challenge was the first Quintana fight. I don't see anything Clottey brings that Paul should fell threatend by. Williams wont be discouraged by Clottey's high guard. Clottey will get his forearms fucked up. Clottey wins 1 maybe 2 rounds.


Sometimes I can't believe the things that you post. Are you kidding me? Quintana? Seriously, Williams has too many advantages over Clottey to count, but Clottey has fast hands, throws short straight heavy counters (as opposed to Williams still too wide shots), and a granite chin. Williams might outwork him and get a comfortable decision, but it sure as hell won't be a comfortable fight for him. Williams would get hit more often and more cleanly against Clottey than against anyone he's faced - and the fight will go 12 long rounds.
D-MARV
QUOTE (salvador @ Jun 15 2009, 07:52 PM) *
Sometimes I can't believe the things that you post. Are you kidding me? Quintana? Seriously, Williams has too many advantages over Clottey to count, but Clottey has fast hands, throws short straight heavy counters (as opposed to Williams still too wide shots), and a granite chin. Williams might outwork him and get a comfortable decision, but it sure as hell won't be a comfortable fight for him. Williams would get hit more often and more cleanly against Clottey than against anyone he's faced - and the fight will go 12 long rounds.

News Flash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Williams lost the first fight to Quintana. It doesn't get much tougher than that. LMAO. I never heard of a "easy loss".


I would expect Williams to earn an hard fought decison but based on rounds, it wouldn't be close.
traced4040
it a god match up

good fight for both fighters as they arent big draws yet

i think cotto won the fight but you can easily say that clottey lost it

he wasnt as aggressive as he shoulda been

that hesitation and his chin means that i favor a Pwill 12 round decision

Pwill punches like no tomorrow whether your in guard or not

Clottey might not get hurt with his solid defense but he really didnt punch enuff in the Cotto fight to make me think he can outwork PWill
King Eugene
You have to be an effective counter puncher the night you fight Williams in order to beat him. Effective counter punching is something Clottey WILL NOT do.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jun 15 2009, 08:01 PM) *
News Flash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Williams lost the first fight to Quintana. It doesn't get much tougher than that. LMAO. I never heard of a "easy loss".


I would expect Williams to earn an hard fought decison but based on rounds, it wouldn't be close.



I think Williams stops Clottey. The moment Clottey shows quit in his eyes Williams will take him out. Williams is an improved fighter since Quintana and he knows how to break the high guard. Williams by stoppage.
Keith
i think you need to do either of 2 things to beat pwill. one way would be to find a way to throw as many punches as pwill by slowing his pace down and speeding yours up. the other would be a fighter with really heavy hands that doesnt need to land in volume to hurt pwill. clottey doesnt punch in volume and with his earmuffs routine would be an easy target. and clottey doesnt not have the power to hurt pwill with individual punches. so i think clottey gets run right out of the building.
Keith
i cant believe clottey gets this much credit. solid fighter. no more. tell me who has this guy has beat that he gets this much credit? i cant freaking believe people give him a chance against pwill. the only way this is close is if pwill has probs making 47 and is drained. if they fight at 54 clottey is a dead man.
salvador
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 16 2009, 12:59 PM) *
i cant believe clottey gets this much credit. solid fighter. no more. tell me who has this guy has beat that he gets this much credit? i cant freaking believe people give him a chance against pwill. the only way this is close is if pwill has probs making 47 and is drained. if they fight at 54 clottey is a dead man.


He just beat Cotto!

You still haven't told me which three of the four close rounds I mentioned (3,4,10,11) that Cotto won. If Cotto didn't win at least 3 of those rounds, then Cotto clearly lost the fight. And I also think that Judah and Corrales are pretty big wins - and the Judah win was about as one sided as it gets.
Mean Mister Mustard
Margarito beat Clottey the only way he could which was with activity and Clottey could not keep up. Williams would do the same thing only better.

Clottey has handspeed which he could use to outbox Williams but for that he would have to use his legs more to outmanouver him, much like Quintana did. I don't think Clottey is that type of fighter though.
salvador
QUOTE (3King3 @ Jun 15 2009, 11:57 PM) *
You have to be an effective counter puncher the night you fight Williams in order to beat him. Effective counter punching is something Clottey WILL NOT do.


I think the most important things to have fighting Williams are a good defense, a granite jaw, and quick and accurate combinations. Clottey probably gets outworked (and outreached) by Williams, but Clottey won't be a walk in the park for Williams.
salvador
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jun 15 2009, 07:01 PM) *
News Flash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Williams lost the first fight to Quintana. It doesn't get much tougher than that. LMAO. I never heard of a "easy loss".


I would expect Williams to earn an hard fought decison but based on rounds, it wouldn't be close.


Quintana is a short, B level fighter who happens to be a Southpaw and didn't represent much of a challenge to Williams. The reason Williams lost was he didn't go into the ring with a killer instinct that night - which may be Williams' biggest flaw.

Thegreatequalizer
i really like this. sure williams is going to win, but at least clottey has the balls to fight him. it will be a good fight between two top guys at welter, what's to complain about? it may give williams the springboard to finally getting some of those other welters to man up and fight him.
Keith
QUOTE (salvador @ Jun 16 2009, 03:25 PM) *
He just beat Cotto!

You still haven't told me which three of the four close rounds I mentioned (3,4,10,11) that Cotto won. If Cotto didn't win at least 3 of those rounds, then Cotto clearly lost the fight. And I also think that Judah and Corrales are pretty big wins - and the Judah win was about as one sided as it gets.

sal, lmao, your great dude. i could really care less what 2 rounds i have to give him after 1,6,11,12. fact is he lost. you have also said that cotto is a diminished fighter since margs. so which is it? on one hand you want me to be impressed that clottey edged a decison against cotto, and on the other i am supposed to believe cotto is a shot fighter. and imo, even the best version of cotto gets his faced swolled up against the punisher.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 16 2009, 01:59 PM) *
i cant believe clottey gets this much credit. solid fighter. no more. tell me who has this guy has beat that he gets this much credit? i cant freaking believe people give him a chance against pwill. the only way this is close is if pwill has probs making 47 and is drained. if they fight at 54 clottey is a dead man.



This is a nice guy competition to a lot of these guys in here. Clottey is a good fighter but the only reason why he isn't one of the top guys is his own fought. Clottey is a bit frustrating but he has no one to blame but himself. Twice he has dropped the ball and if he does the same against Paul he's getting stopped.
D-MARV
QUOTE (salvador @ Jun 16 2009, 03:25 PM) *
He just beat Cotto!

You still haven't told me which three of the four close rounds I mentioned (3,4,10,11) that Cotto won. If Cotto didn't win at least 3 of those rounds, then Cotto clearly lost the fight. And I also think that Judah and Corrales are pretty big wins - and the Judah win was about as one sided as it gets.

Sometimes, I can't believe the things that come out of your mouth. rolleyes_anim.gif
salvador
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 16 2009, 02:38 PM) *
sal, lmao, your great dude. i could really care less what 2 rounds i have to give him after 1,6,11,12. fact is he lost. you have also said that cotto is a diminished fighter since margs. so which is it? on one hand you want me to be impressed that clottey edged a decison against cotto, and on the other i am supposed to believe cotto is a shot fighter. and imo, even the best version of cotto gets his faced swolled up against the punisher.


Cotto is definitely a diminished fighter. He ain't the killer anymore. I never once got the impression that he ever believed there was even a chance he could ko Clottey. He never even seemed to try.

The 11th was close, but Clottey won it becasue Cotto ran the entire round and neither guy did much else. Cotto also ran for the entire 12th and it's hard to blame Clottey for not being able to catch a guy who's running his ass off after 11 tough rounds. And I agree that even the best version of Cotto would get smoked by Williams.

That said, Clottey beat Cotto clearly and the reason it's important to clarify that is because Don Trella's score of 116-111 makes it VERY CLEAR that there were some payoffs. The fight was rigged and it's tragic for boxing that guys who care enough to spend hours typing on boards like this aren't outraged by such soul killing corruption.

Why can't you just admit that Cotto didn't win at least 3 of the 4 rounds in question? That would solve a lot of the debate.

D-MARV
QUOTE (salvador @ Jun 16 2009, 06:02 PM) *
Cotto is definitely a diminished fighter. He ain't the killer anymore. I never once got the impression that he ever believed there was even a chance he could ko Clottey. He never even seemed to try.

The 11th was close, but Clottey won it becasue Cotto ran the entire round and neither guy did much else. Cotto also ran for the entire 12th and it's hard to blame Clottey for not being able to catch a guy who's running his ass off after 11 tough rounds. And I agree that even the best version of Cotto would get smoked by Williams.

That said, Clottey beat Cotto clearly and the reason it's important to clarify that is because Don Trella's score of 116-111 makes it VERY CLEAR that there were some payoffs. The fight was rigged and it's tragic for boxing that guys who care enough to spend hours typing on boards like this aren't outraged by such soul killing corruption.

Why can't you just admit that Cotto didn't win at least 3 of the 4 rounds in question? That would solve a lot of the debate.

The only tragedy is you're bitching and moaning. Clottey isn't even trippin' as much as you are. Again, It was a close fight in which 1 point either way would be a good score. GET OVER IT! Clottey has.
I can't believe you came on here talking about you were going to give up boxing because of this fight. JESUS! it was a close fucking fight.
Keith
sal, i replied on the other thread, but if it makes you happy, 1,4,6,10,11,12. there are your 6.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 16 2009, 07:14 PM) *
Clottey was unable to beat a declined Cotto, a Cotto with a cut pouring into his eye for basically the whole fight convincingly. I think it says more about Clottey than Cotto, he had just about every advantage and couldn't close the show.
Like I said, he won the war no doubt, but on a round by round basis Cotto has an argument for the fight. I think people are under the impression that who ever won the war and caused more physical damage wins the fight, but that doesn't work. Scoring round by round doesn't always work like that.
Like I have pointed out, in two rounds you have one guy edging a round and the second round the other guy rocks his opponent and lands about 15 clean power shots.
At the end they are still 1-1 and it's really that simple. That's just the way it's scored and how the Cotto-Clottey fight panned out. Rounds Cotto won were close with not much activity, and the rounds Clottey won were dominant, in the end you don't get bonus points for winning a round more clearly than the other.
Bad luck.


Very good post Fitz...as usual. I had Cotto winning by one point, but some of those close rounds I gave to Cotto maybe Clottey could have taking one or two of them. I would have had no problem with Clottey winning either, the only problem I had was the ridiculous 116-111 card. I thought it was a close fight either way.
King Eugene
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jun 16 2009, 08:14 PM) *
Very good post Fitz...as usual. I had Cotto winning by one point, but some of those close rounds I gave to Cotto maybe Clottey could have taking one or two of them. I would have had no problem with Clottey winning either, the only problem I had was the ridiculous 116-111 card. I thought it was a close fight either way.


Please let go of his branch. It has to be hard for him to walk with an extra 130-40 pounds hanging on his midsection. LMAO

You know I'm just messing with ya man.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (3King3 @ Jun 16 2009, 09:37 PM) *

Please let go of his branch. It has to be hard for him to walk with an extra 130-40 pounds hanging on his midsection. LMAO

You know I'm just messing with ya man.


You crack me up 3King3. laugh.gif Maybe if you made some good knowledgeable posts, unlike all the same Jones trite you spew, I would give you some props too. Now go back to listening to your Roy Jones CD and watch the replay of Jones KO'n that fucking policeman!!!

I do know you're kidding, that was funny too.
King Eugene
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Jun 16 2009, 09:44 PM) *
You crack me up 3King3. laugh.gif Maybe if you made some good knowledgeable posts, unlike all the same Jones trite you spew, I would give you some props too. Now go back to listening to your Roy Jones CD and watch the replay of Jones KO'n that fucking policeman!!!

I do know you're kidding, that was funny too.

Hey man my copy is scratched. I played it too much. Will you burn me a copy of yours? LOL
King Eugene
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 16 2009, 10:07 PM) *
Hey, be fair to him. He made one post, you have made a whole thread.

http://www.fighthype.com/community/index.php?showtopic=22715

I raise you:


Please explain to me how that thread is nutt swinging?
salvador
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jun 16 2009, 05:40 PM) *
The only tragedy is you're bitching and moaning. Clottey isn't even trippin' as much as you are. Again, It was a close fight in which 1 point either way would be a good score. GET OVER IT! Clottey has.
I can't believe you came on here talking about you were going to give up boxing because of this fight. JESUS! it was a close fucking fight.


Fuck you.

And I assure you that Clottey, who's career earnings just suffered a multi million dollar blow, is way more upset than I am.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jun 16 2009, 11:14 PM) *
in the end you don't get bonus points for winning a round more clearly than the other.
Bad luck.


Actually you do if it is a very dominant round. Rare I know but it does happen.
D-MARV
QUOTE (salvador @ Jun 17 2009, 07:46 AM) *
Fuck you.

And I assure you that Clottey, who's career earnings just suffered a multi million dollar blow, is way more upset than I am.

And he should be. He let Cotto off the hook.
Sugar Q
QUOTE (salvador @ Jun 16 2009, 06:02 PM) *
Cotto is definitely a diminished fighter. He ain't the killer anymore. I never once got the impression that he ever believed there was even a chance he could ko Clottey. He never even seemed to try.

The 11th was close, but Clottey won it becasue Cotto ran the entire round and neither guy did much else. Cotto also ran for the entire 12th and it's hard to blame Clottey for not being able to catch a guy who's running his ass off after 11 tough rounds. And I agree that even the best version of Cotto would get smoked by Williams.

That said, Clottey beat Cotto clearly and the reason it's important to clarify that is because Don Trella's score of 116-111 makes it VERY CLEAR that there were some payoffs. The fight was rigged and it's tragic for boxing that guys who care enough to spend hours typing on boards like this aren't outraged by such soul killing corruption.

Why can't you just admit that Cotto didn't win at least 3 of the 4 rounds in question? That would solve a lot of the debate.


Sal my dude in Cotto's defense Clottey hasn't been avoided for nothing. He's a big strong dude. That's 170lbs of solid muscle. Aint no fat on dudes body. We just saw Cotto up against a true 147-154 pounder and Clottey has a granite chin. Cotto could have never ko'd Clottey before or after the Margarito fight. Remember Margarito couldn't budge Cotto. Pacquioa's gonna be in for a very rude awakening.
salvador
QUOTE (Sugar Q @ Jun 17 2009, 09:45 AM) *
Sal my dude in Cotto's defense Clottey hasn't been avoided for nothing. He's a big strong dude. That's 170lbs of solid muscle. Aint no fat on dudes body. We just saw Cotto up against a true 147-154 pounder and Clottey has a granite chin. Cotto could have never ko'd Clottey before or after the Margarito fight. Remember Margarito couldn't budge Cotto. Pacquioa's gonna be in for a very rude awakening.


Don't get me wrong, Cotto's still one of my favorite fighters if for no other reason than because of his willingness to take on the very best - and Clottey is an A level fighter. God Bless Cotto for taking the fight. That said, Cotto is diminished and I wouldn't be surprised to see him in with Pac next and then maybe one last farewell fight.

My assumption with Pac is that he is a natural 130 pounder with crazy speed and I'm not at all sold on his chin at 147. I'd still pick him to beat Cotto, but you're right, if Cotto lands a few solid body shots early then Cotto might just destroy him. Because Pac ain't got the chin or the frame of Marg or Clottey, and Cotto KNOWS that he can ko Pac with the right punch. The question is whether or not he'll land those punches early. I'd love to see this fight.
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