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Full Version: ESPN Classic @4pm (CST) RBR: Klitschko vs. Chaegnev (SPOILERS 4:15)
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Jack 1000
For all the on-going round by round action and post fight reactions to the Klitschko vs. Chagneav fight.

Jack

Administrator
D-MARV
I forgot about this fight after last night's fight! LOL

I just hope someone gets KO'd.
BigG
Klitschko wins round 1 IMO 10-9
BigG
Chagaev down in round 2 from right hand
BigG
Round 2 10-8 for Klitschko
BigG
round 3 is an easy round for Klitschko looking like a typical Klitschko fight
D-MARV
I know his style isn't crowd-friendly, but he's making it look very easy in there.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jun 20 2009, 05:25 PM) *
I know his style isn't crowd-friendly, but he's making it look very easy in there.


Yes, he gets credit for that. Chagaev is no bum.
Mean Mister Mustard
Chagaev did a good job of bobbing and weaving in that round. Plus he landed a couple of straight lefts to the body. That's what these guys should do against the Klits, when they realize they can't touch his chin at least go to the body. We're not asking him to go all out, but at least thrown some straight shots to the body.
lloyd mayflower
anyone got a link for a stream? im stuck at fucking work without a tv
D-MARV
Chageav is getting fucked up!
D-MARV
Good performance from Wladimir.

No question who the best Heavyweight is now.
BigG
Im sorry but the Heavyweight division badly needs to get back the times of the 70s or early 90s. Klitschko is not a great a champion. He dominates average fighters. He is a physical specimen but fuck it Haye would be a live dog against him.
D-MARV
Don't get mad at Klitschko.

He is just doing his job. This is not the first time a Heavyweight has dominated an average bunch of fighters.
Romulus9
David Haye wants no part of Klitschko. He can't take as many right hands as Chagaev did. Vitali's is better than Wlad's, but Wlad has a better jab.


AND, I'm pretty sure both Klitschkos can do more damage than an old Monte Barrett.


Let Haye fight Chagaev or Valuev.
D-MARV
Let Haye fight Arreola.
Romulus9
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jun 20 2009, 05:59 PM) *
Let Haye fight Arreola.


Fine by me.
JD
Haye would have lost earlier.
D-MARV
QUOTE (JD @ Jun 20 2009, 06:25 PM) *
Haye would have lost earlier.

I think you're right.

Haye would't have recovered from the right that put Chageav down.
JD
Haye got dropped by Monte Barrett even though it was not ruled. He later went on to say how surprised by how of a puncher Barrett was and how the heavies hit so much harder than Cruisers.

Wlad would have, and may still crush him.
thefloatingmonkey
Haye better fight with his hands up if they ever fight. He would need to put pressure on Klitschko and take him out of that jab, jab, jab game plan.
lloyd mayflower
regardless of whether you think haye will get KO'd by Wlad, i think the fight is still a must, because its undeniable that on the list of possible opponents for Wlad, hes the only one that brings anything potentially different/exciting to the table, and despite him being largely untested at heavy, hes the only one id give Wlad a good bit of credit for beating. I cant see any potential opponent that looks any different to Wlads string of previous opponents in recent years. Its all just fucking slow ass one dimensional robots or fat bastards
JD
I would love to see the Haye fight.
The Original MrFactor
Haye gets KO'd too... He beat Monte Barret, but Barrett had his moments. Klit is about as unbeatable as it gets within a division. maybe Floyd should move up and fight him. After all, all he has to do is step back and counter...

Its really looking like the Klits will rule into their early 40's. SIZE does matter when fighting them. They fight big and win easily. When was the last time Wlad struggled?? Its been a minute. Nobody on the landscape has a shot at this point. Haye will get KO'd, perhaps with one shot. the size difference between the Klits and everyone else that matters is so great that the other guys have no shot at all...

Wlad should be P4P top 5 imo. In fact I thionk he ranks right up there with the greats of the division. He's well into his prime and we see what kind of fighter he has become. His size and speed would give anyone in any era a real challenge. Kudos to him. I've become a fan...
BGv2.0
This is the perfect fight to show people who CANNOT understand why American fans in particular simply cannot ever fully support Wlad!

I like Wlad as a person....he really seems like an intelligent, respectful, charitable human being. AND....I give him him kudos for being a sheer physical force and well conditioned specimen.

BUT.....ANY other HW Champion in recent history would have FINISHED Chagiev when he was all but begging for it in the corner.

Ali, Holms, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis...even Bowe.....has that same situation....they take the guy out with combos...INCLUDING hooks and uppercuts.

Wlad.....even though the guy was wide open for all of the above....simply jabbed/right handed him until the end of the round.

With the limited opposition that Raslan put up....coupled with the power and reach Wlad has.....there is NOWAY this fight should have seen the 8th round and there is no excuse for it ending with the guy quiting on his stool.

I don't care how Wlad dominates his opposition....unless he starts KOing them the way the last HW Champions have in the last couple of decades....Americans are never going to truly back him.

AND....that is a shame because IMHO...this is something Wlad himself has control over.
BigG
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jun 21 2009, 05:41 AM) *
Haye gets KO'd too... He beat Monte Barret, but Barrett had his moments. Klit is about as unbeatable as it gets within a division. maybe Floyd should move up and fight him. After all, all he has to do is step back and counter...

Its really looking like the Klits will rule into their early 40's. SIZE does matter when fighting them. They fight big and win easily. When was the last time Wlad struggled?? Its been a minute. Nobody on the landscape has a shot at this point. Haye will get KO'd, perhaps with one shot. the size difference between the Klits and everyone else that matters is so great that the other guys have no shot at all...

Wlad should be P4P top 5 imo. In fact I thionk he ranks right up there with the greats of the division. He's well into his prime and we see what kind of fighter he has become. His size and speed would give anyone in any era a real challenge. Kudos to him. I've become a fan...


Mr. Factor...top 5 P4P?

Pacquiao, Marquez, Hopkins, Mayweather, Cotto, Clottey, Williams, Donaire, Calderon, Darchinyan, Montiel, Lopez, Dawson are all rated higher than either Klitschko
D-MARV
QUOTE
Wlad should be P4P top 5 imo. In fact I thionk he ranks right up there with the greats of the division. He's well into his prime and we see what kind of fighter he has become. His size and speed would give anyone in any era a real challenge. Kudos to him. I've become a fan...


Wlad has his case for being P4P.

Unfortunately, unless you're name is Bernard Hopkins, you have to be exciting to get any kind of credit in today's sport.


No way Clottey should be ranked over Wladimir. That's just messed up.
The CEO
I didn't watch this fight....and I really don't need to to be honest........but it's good to finally see a little appreciation for Wlad's prowess......sounds to me like he carried another victim....I think both The Klits get off on that....prolonging the torture.

Wlad most definitely has P4P Boxing skills and has perennially stayed anywhere from 8-15 on my personal list.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (biggeorge89 @ Jun 21 2009, 06:54 AM) *
Mr. Factor...top 5 P4P?

Pacquiao, Marquez, Hopkins, Mayweather, Cotto, Clottey, Williams, Donaire, Calderon, Darchinyan, Montiel, Lopez, Dawson are all rated higher than either Klitschko



Why should Dawson, Clottey Williams, Donaire, Calderon, Darchinian, Montiel and Lopez be higher than Klit?
Mean Mister Mustard
I think an argument could be made for W.Klit to be in the top 10. He hasn't lost since 05 and has beaten solid guys like Peter, Byrd, Ibragimov and now Chagaev.

He has become too passive though, it used to be that he had one hell of a left hook and now he doesn't even use it. He keeps winning his though.

The question is who can beat him? Haye might have a shot, he's not that small and he is quick and hits hard. Like you guys said though, his chin might not hold up. Who else? Valuev? Maybe, you never know. After all, Klithscko fights going backwards now and relies more on fighting at a distance which would mean good things for Valuev since he would be able to box with him. The problem is Valuev's defence is not good.

So who else? Ruiz? I don't know, haven't seen him fight since he lost to Valuev the second time and he ate a lot of jabs in that one.

Arreola and Povetking would be more of the same: Come foward, eat jabs and rights, quit in corner or get Ko'd.

Eddie Chambers? Doesn't punch enough and if he just covers up like he usally does he will get stopped.

Is Dimitrenko the guy?

Sure, on paper none of these guys appear to have much of a chance but you never know.
Romulus9
QUOTE (biggeorge89 @ Jun 21 2009, 06:54 AM) *
Mr. Factor...top 5 P4P?

Pacquiao, Marquez, Hopkins, Mayweather, Cotto, Clottey, Williams, Donaire, Calderon, Darchinyan, Montiel, Lopez, Dawson are all rated higher than either Klitschko



I think Klitschko has to be top 10. Top 5 may not be the case but that says more about the class of fighters in the world now than it does about the current heavyweight champion.

That said, Pacquiao, Marquez, and Williams are certainly above Wlad P4P. Hopkins hasn't fought in 8 months and doesn't have anything on the horizon, so that'll start dropping him down the list. That's just how it goes. Mayweather hasn't been in the ring in almost 2 years, and since he "retired", he's nowhere near the list because he's not an active fighters. Clottey isn't near the P4P list for me. Darchinyan, Donaire, and Montiel certainly are. Lopez is a guy that's going to be on the list for a long, long, long time. As long as he sees fit.

Wlad has absolutely DOMINATED the division for 4 years. Since he's gotten his little stamina problem whipped, Emanuel has really crafted himself another excellent champion. So he doesn't follow the exciting formula that others have. He wins, and he does so consistently. Chagaev was an undefeated champion, and while Wlad didn't go in for the kill in the second round, he also didn't take chances he deemed unnecessary, dominated his opponent, took a number of solid shots that could be counted on one hand, and came away with a stoppage win and the Ring Magazine belt.

Absolutely he's top 10 P4P and he could be top 5 depending on one's subjective criteria.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jun 21 2009, 10:07 AM) *
Why should Dawson, Clottey Williams, Donaire, Calderon, Darchinian, Montiel and Lopez be higher than Klit?

Dawson and Williams have beaten the better competition as of late....
D-MARV
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Jun 21 2009, 01:19 PM) *
Dawson and Williams have beaten the better competition as of late....

Yep. Agreed...

I've been waiting for you to weigh in on this event. Do you recognize Wladimir as the "True" Heavyweight champ yet?
BigG
Put it this way, I think if you put Wlad in with the Pacquiao, Mayweather, Cotto, Mosley, Marquez, Clottey, Bradley, Campbell class he wouldn't even be a factor. I think he's a good champion dominating a weak division.
D-MARV
QUOTE (biggeorge89 @ Jun 21 2009, 02:23 PM) *
Put it this way, I think if you put Wlad in with the Pacquiao, Mayweather, Cotto, Mosley, Clottey, Bradley, Campbell class he wouldn't even be a factor. I think he's a good champion dominating a weak division.

I Disagree!

Wlad's style would pose a threat to just about all those fighters you listed.
BigG
I'm pretty sure Klitschko in a mythical P4P fight would get MANGLED by the likes of Pacquiao,Mosley and Cotto. LOL...if there was a HW version of Pacquiao Klitschko would be floored 10 times in the first round.

Sorry DMarv I'm just never impressed by Wlad. He has huge physical advantages by his brother and it's not his fault the HW division is shit...
D-MARV
QUOTE (biggeorge89 @ Jun 21 2009, 02:27 PM) *
I'm pretty sure Klitschko in a mythical P4P fight would get MANGLED by the likes of Pacquiao,Mosley and Cotto. LOL...if there was a HW version of Pacquiao Klitschko would be floored 10 times in the first round.

Sorry DMarv I'm just never impressed by Wlad. He has huge physical advantages by his brother and it's not his fault the HW division is shit...

I can see Pac's style fucking Wlad up but you are really underrating the guy.

Wlad's qualities:

Jab- A
Power- A
Feet- A
Speed- B+
Ring IQ- A
Heart- B
Chin- C
Jack 1000
I still think the Klitschko brothers are just the best of a sucky weight division. Wlad didn't show me anything new. This was the typical Klitschko's fight (yes, saying both here is NOT a typo.) Working behind the jab, plod along and set up for the right hand. Say what you want about David Haye as only a Cruiserweight, and having a suspect chin himself. But against EITHER brother he will at least pressure them. If Corrie Sanders can smash Wlad over over the ring, at lest Haye and Arreola have punchers chances. Lamon Brewster also could apply pressure against Wlad and win. At least Arreola and Haye, although barring a punchers chance will likely lose, they will at least go down swinging.

I liked the commentary as well with the Flores'. Critics of Ring may dislike that they kept going on about the Ring belt. But they probably did this for general public simplicity. They made sense out of a fight that was confusing from the get-go what belts were on the line. If arrogant Atlas had been there, he would have had one of his two-year old temper tantrums about a national commission, and the Hepatitis B thing, along with the Klitschko bashing. The Flores' did something reminiscent of the times when Don Dumphy would call boxing back in the 40's-early 70's. They just CALLED THE FIGHT. They didn't cheer-lead, they didn't pom-pom, they didn't have a 20 minute soliloquy about "Let's LOVE the fight we are calling" from the Jim Lampley school of broadcasting.

I know there wasn't much to say about the one-sided beating, but it was nice to have relaxed conversation. They gave a nice little time-line graphic about how the fight came to be and kept their mouths shut about their personal opinions.

HEY HBO! HOW ABOUT A JOB FOR THESE GUYS? I think they did very well. (Or even regulars at ESPN?)

Jack
Romulus9
Really Jack?

I thought the commentary was dreadful. BJ Flores wasn't bad doing analysis but the blow-by-blow was just awful. Brian Kenny's absence was obvious. He'd have done a far better job. I hate when there's a lead broadcaster who clearly has no idea what to say.

I'll say this: I really like Joe Tessitore. As good as Bob Papa was with ESPN2 FNF and now with HBO on Boxing After Dark, I think Tessitore is one of the best around. Of course, I miss Al Albert and Sean O'Grady on TNF. I'd love to see Al and Sean, or Joe and Teddy, doing HBO BAD instead of the circus troupe that's on there now. Papa is good but Lennox Lewis is awful and Kellerman, while insightful at times, just pisses me right off. I keep waiting on him to break out the leather jacket.

Seriously, remember Al and Sean on TNF? Wouldn't it be great to have them on the air with the BAD quality of fights, with that kind of audience? Or Tessitore and Atlas?

I thought yesterday's commentary really made me more appreciative of the good commentary that's out there and never really talked about. I can't take much more of Lennox Lewis on the air. From a broadcast a couple of years ago:


"You dont want to get hit on the chin, because this is the sport of boxing."

Lampley asked Lennox, "how does it feel to get a low blow" Lennox then said, "It hurts real, real bad."

Lampley asked him about the difficulty in fighting a southpaw, and lennox said "It is real hard to fight a southpaw, but I have never fought one."

When talking about a puncher's chance, Lennox said, "when a boxer has an opportunity to knock you out with one punch, that is what they mean when they say 'a puncher's chance'."


HOW DOES HE HAVE A JOB!?
D-MARV
I rather have PWill, Roy Jones, and Chad Dawson do commentary.

Can you imagine trying to figure out what the hell their saying?
Romulus9
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jun 21 2009, 03:54 PM) *
I rather have PWill, Roy Jones, and Chad Dawson do commentary.

Can you imagine trying to figure out what the hell their saying?



I'd like to see an all Mayweather broadcast team. Flyrd Sr. and Roger would be completely unintelligible, just a bunch of incoherent babbling, ranting and raving. Also included, free of charge, is Floyd Jr., talking in an understandable manner, but constantly clapping the whole time a la his Brian Kenny interview.

I wouldn't even care who was fighting. It'd be worth watching for the freak show.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jun 21 2009, 02:09 PM) *
I liked the commentary as well with the Flores'. Critics of Ring may dislike that they kept going on about the Ring belt. But they probably did this for general public simplicity. They made sense out of a fight that was confusing from the get-go what belts were on the line. If arrogant Atlas had been there, he would have had one of his two-year old temper tantrums about a national commission, and the Hepatitis B thing, along with the Klitschko bashing. The Flores' did something reminiscent of the times when Don Dumphy would call boxing back in the 40's-early 70's. They just CALLED THE FIGHT. They didn't cheer-lead, they didn't pom-pom, they didn't have a 20 minute soliloquy about "Let's LOVE the fight we are calling" from the Jim Lampley school of broadcasting.

I know there wasn't much to say about the one-sided beating, but it was nice to have relaxed conversation. They gave a nice little time-line graphic about how the fight came to be and kept their mouths shut about their personal opinions.

HEY HBO! HOW ABOUT A JOB FOR THESE GUYS? I think they did very well. (Or even regulars at ESPN?)

Jack


Well....although I myself would have TOTALLY supported an Atlas outburst in relation to this fight due to the Hep-B situation.....I do agree with you about the commentary.

I was REALLY impressed by BJ Flores as a commentator. As a matter of fact I would LOVE for HBO to boot Kellerman for him.

If his career as a fighter ever goes south....he will have that job in the bag.

I also liked Joe Mesi as a commentator as well.

And the good thing about those guys....is that they KNOW what it is like to be in there....



As for the other situations with this fight.....

When they said that he had "traces" of Hep-B in his blood.....it made me laugh....because that's kind of like being "sort of" pregnant...lol

Also....I know a LOT of fans give the Ring credit for their rankings and whatnot....but IMHO they make just about as much sense as the others nowadays. If that was the LEGIT #3 in the world....then I'm number 4!

When you look at recent activity and the whole Valuev situation....I did not and don't really consider Chagiev that high.

2 years of on and off activity.....sharing your belt with a caveman.....Hep-B....boring 12 round wins over the likes of Skelton...

YET.....you are number 3 in the world.....NAH!

I don't have a lot of faith in Chris Arreola....but based on activity and recent wins....I consider him higher than Raslan.


BUT.....whatever....it is what it is.


White Tyson? lol

Man.....this division is killing me!
Romulus9
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Jun 22 2009, 12:58 AM) *
White Tyson? lol

Man.....this division is killing me!



Maybe he's talking about the Tyson that fought Kevin McBride. In that case, he'd be correct.
Jack 1000
QUOTE
Well....although I myself would have TOTALLY supported an Atlas outburst in relation to this fight due to the Hep-B situation.


In reflection, maybe that would have been a good idea.

QUOTE
White Tyson? lol


Maybe the second coming of Peter McNeeley for Cheagnev. Yes, that bad! LOL!



Jack
D-MARV
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jun 21 2009, 04:01 PM) *
I'd like to see an all Mayweather broadcast team. Flyrd Sr. and Roger would be completely unintelligible, just a bunch of incoherent babbling, ranting and raving. Also included, free of charge, is Floyd Jr., talking in an understandable manner, but constantly clapping the whole time a la his Brian Kenny interview.

I wouldn't even care who was fighting. It'd be worth watching for the freak show.

Floyd Jr would be a pleasure to listen to.

I can hear him bringing up his battles with Jose Luis CASTILLIO
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jun 22 2009, 12:45 AM) *
Maybe he's talking about the Tyson that fought Kevin McBride. In that case, he'd be correct.


Believe it or not even THAT Tyson put up more of a fight than Raslan did!

That was a pitiful display.

BUT....what do expect when you have a liver condition that affects your stamina.
BGv2.0
SPOT ON!!!!

No punch drunk to this....

"At some point in time, when you get the guy ready, you supposed to get him out of there. To get him out of there, that means you gotta take some chances because to hit a guy with your hardest shot, you can't extend your arm all the way. You gotta get close where you can go through him. That's the thing with the Klitschkos. The Klitschkos thing is to keep a guy at the end of their punch and just settle for a win instead of taking a chance and getting a little close where you can hit the guy, get him out of there and look fantastic,"
King Eugene
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jun 21 2009, 03:54 PM) *
I rather have PWill, Roy Jones, and Chad Dawson do commentary.

Can you imagine trying to figure out what the hell their saying?

And have Toney take Leddermans place.
laugh.gif
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