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Douchebag
Eventhough I don't necessarily agree with his reasons (especially number one, I think they are pretty even here) I thought it would make for good discussion.

LINK

TOP 10 REASONS WHY COTTO BEATS PACQUIAO!
29 June, 2009 by Matthew R. Grizzle

Las Vegas, N- Over the past several months I have made two predictions regarding Manny Pacquiao (49-3-2, 37 KOs); one was that he would beat Oscar De La Hoya (39-6, 30 KOs) and the other was that he would take care of business with Ricky Hatton (45-2, 32 KOs). As Pacquiao looks toward his next bout in November against Miguel Cotto (34-1, 27 KOs), I will make another prediction; this one not in the favor of the beloved Pacman.

FILIPINO’S LUCK & RUN COMING TO END

Being a fan of both fighters isn’t an issue for me in making this pick. My feelings towards fighters rarely interfere with the objective nature of journalism. However, I will tell you this; Manny Pacquiao will lose to Miguel Cotto. This time, Manny and his team have simply bitten off more than they can chew. I am very, very happy to see Manny and his trainer Freddie Roach finally get their props, but I don’t think there is any game plan that they can come up with against Cotto that will have an end result in their favor.

BE HONEST, OSCAR WAS MORE SHOT THAN TUPAC!

When De La Hoya fought Steve Forbes (34-7, 10 KOs), I could tell he wasn’t who he once was, and when the Pac fight was signed I knew he wouldn’t be able to keep the little Filipino off of him. When Pac signed to face the overrated Ricky Hatton, I knew he would stop him as Hatton doesn’t even know how to spell defense, let alone show it in the ring. But with Cotto, it will be too much. Cotto isn’t just a big name, he isn’t just an icon in Puerto Rico, and he isn’t just a legitimate welterweight with legitimate boxing skills and solid power. He is however all of this and more, and on top of that, he won’t come charging in like a drunk Mancunian and at the set catch weight of 145 lbs, he won’t come in completely drained.

IT’LL BE COTTO’S NOVEMBER TO REMEMBER

Even if Cotto has lost a step since getting hit with bricks last year (Antonio Margarito), he still has more than enough left to take care of Pacquiao. He was able to deal with Shane Mosley’s (46-5, 39 KOs) blinding speed, and he will make the necessary adjustments to deal with Pac’s speed. If Cotto comes in injury free and doesn’t have difficulty making weight, this will be a vicious one sided affair in favor of the Puerto Rican. I love Manny Pacquiao not only for what he has done for the sport, but also for the generous, kind person that he is, but in this fight, I can’t see him having much of a shot.

TEN REASONS COTTO WILL BEAT PACQUIAO

10.) Speed- Even though this asset goes to Pacquiao, Cotto will know how use it in his benefit and counter; making it to his advantage; not the Pacman’s.

9.) Power- Pacman has tons of pop, but Cotto still has the advantage here, especially given his size advantage and body attack.

8.) Punch Selection- Cotto knows what to throw and when to throw it.

7. ) Size- No explanation needed here, Cotto is much bigger!

6.) Boxing Skills- As much as Manny has improved, he still isn’t as technically sound as the Puerto Rican.

5.) Defense- Cotto has very good and probably under rated defense. He will be able to parry Pac’s straight left hand with ease.

4.) Experience- Both men have significant ring experience, but I think Cotto’s will better suit him for this fight; mainly because of his fight against Shane Mosley.

3.) Respect- Cotto will show respect for Manny’s power instead of simply running in like an amateur a la Hatton.

2.) Will- Both men have great heart, grit and will, but Cotto has had to show it more often, and has no problem doing so.

AND THE #1 REASON WHY COTTO WILL BEAT PAC

1.) Ring IQ- Cotto simply understands the game slightly better; giving him the knowledge and know how to beat Pac.


Matthew R. Grizzle

Note: Mr. Grizzle, himself a former MMA fighter is one of our "new stars" featured exclusively here at www.RingTalk.com You can leave your (respectful) comments below.
gbh32001
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 29 2009, 10:39 PM) *
Eventhough I don't necessarily agree with his reasons (especially number one, I think they are pretty even here) I thought it would make for good discussion.

LINK

TOP 10 REASONS WHY COTTO BEATS PACQUIAO!
29 June, 2009 by Matthew R. Grizzle

Las Vegas, N- Over the past several months I have made two predictions regarding Manny Pacquiao (49-3-2, 37 KOs); one was that he would beat Oscar De La Hoya (39-6, 30 KOs) and the other was that he would take care of business with Ricky Hatton (45-2, 32 KOs). As Pacquiao looks toward his next bout in November against Miguel Cotto (34-1, 27 KOs), I will make another prediction; this one not in the favor of the beloved Pacman.

FILIPINOíS LUCK & RUN COMING TO END

Being a fan of both fighters isnít an issue for me in making this pick. My feelings towards fighters rarely interfere with the objective nature of journalism. However, I will tell you this; Manny Pacquiao will lose to Miguel Cotto. This time, Manny and his team have simply bitten off more than they can chew. I am very, very happy to see Manny and his trainer Freddie Roach finally get their props, but I donít think there is any game plan that they can come up with against Cotto that will have an end result in their favor.

BE HONEST, OSCAR WAS MORE SHOT THAN TUPAC!

When De La Hoya fought Steve Forbes (34-7, 10 KOs), I could tell he wasnít who he once was, and when the Pac fight was signed I knew he wouldnít be able to keep the little Filipino off of him. When Pac signed to face the overrated Ricky Hatton, I knew he would stop him as Hatton doesnít even know how to spell defense, let alone show it in the ring. But with Cotto, it will be too much. Cotto isnít just a big name, he isnít just an icon in Puerto Rico, and he isnít just a legitimate welterweight with legitimate boxing skills and solid power. He is however all of this and more, and on top of that, he wonít come charging in like a drunk Mancunian and at the set catch weight of 145 lbs, he wonít come in completely drained.

ITíLL BE COTTOíS NOVEMBER TO REMEMBER

Even if Cotto has lost a step since getting hit with bricks last year (Antonio Margarito), he still has more than enough left to take care of Pacquiao. He was able to deal with Shane Mosleyís (46-5, 39 KOs) blinding speed, and he will make the necessary adjustments to deal with Pacís speed. If Cotto comes in injury free and doesnít have difficulty making weight, this will be a vicious one sided affair in favor of the Puerto Rican. I love Manny Pacquiao not only for what he has done for the sport, but also for the generous, kind person that he is, but in this fight, I canít see him having much of a shot.

TEN REASONS COTTO WILL BEAT PACQUIAO

10.) Speed- Even though this asset goes to Pacquiao, Cotto will know how use it in his benefit and counter; making it to his advantage; not the Pacmanís.

9.) Power- Pacman has tons of pop, but Cotto still has the advantage here, especially given his size advantage and body attack.

8.) Punch Selection- Cotto knows what to throw and when to throw it.

7. ) Size- No explanation needed here, Cotto is much bigger!

6.) Boxing Skills- As much as Manny has improved, he still isnít as technically sound as the Puerto Rican.

5.) Defense- Cotto has very good and probably under rated defense. He will be able to parry Pacís straight left hand with ease.

4.) Experience- Both men have significant ring experience, but I think Cottoís will better suit him for this fight; mainly because of his fight against Shane Mosley.

3.) Respect- Cotto will show respect for Mannyís power instead of simply running in like an amateur a la Hatton.

2.) Will- Both men have great heart, grit and will, but Cotto has had to show it more often, and has no problem doing so.

AND THE #1 REASON WHY COTTO WILL BEAT PAC

1.) Ring IQ- Cotto simply understands the game slightly better; giving him the knowledge and know how to beat Pac.


Matthew R. Grizzle

Note: Mr. Grizzle, himself a former MMA fighter is one of our "new stars" featured exclusively here at www.RingTalk.com You can leave your (respectful) comments below.
Nice to see, know and understand that there is still Pac unbeliever out there. Because if nobody, nobody will care this fight. I for one believed that Cotto is too much for manny pacquiao but the fact that manny choosed Cotto after his bout with Joshua Clottey, I have to re-think it again. Power is in Cotto's corner but the rest is to Pac. I don't believe Cotto have a higher IQ than Pac in the ring. Even Juan Manuel Marquez who is a counter-puncher by nature unable to outclass Manny, how much more Cotto can bring? This is pick 'em fight. But Pacquiao haters already dish out Cotto, and belittle his win against ODLH,DD and RH. I hope you will be graceful in defeat and do not gloat in victory after your prediction will be unfold(J.Chavez who is a hater and unbeliever muzzled by Manny after he annihilated Oscar remained unbeliever and become worst than the former). Good luck!
torvix2000
LOL! I thought I have already seen these opponents' advantages before. According to the article, Pacquiao has nothing... read NOTHING against Cotto. So he must have 0% chance of winning.

Or perhaps he forgot item #11. Unpredictability. Or item #12. Luck.

kidbazooka1
It's still difficult for me to say if Cotto showed signs of slowing down from the Maragrito fight because in the first few rds of the Clottey fight Cotto looked as sharp as he's ever been don't know if it was the wear that had him struggling with Clottey towards the end or the huge cut.

I do agree though that if Cotto comes in injury free and makes weigh fine i give him the advantage over Manny but i wouldn't bet a dime on it thats for sure.
The CEO
VIVA COTTO Y VIVA MIS PREDICCIONES!!
Keith
Would anyone have picked Pac to beat Cotto in a hypothetical matchup a yr. ago? Pac beat Diaz, DLH, and Hatton but I believe Cotto beats all three as well. I agree with some of the top 10 but to me Cotto is simply the #1 or #2 welterweight in the world and too big and strong for Pac. Because of his size, Pac has to get inside of Cotto's range to get off. Cotto is quick enough to force exchanges and I think Pac loses that fight every time.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
I think Pac will just have too much speed for Cotto. I think that advantage will neutralize all the other advantages, as it has in other Pacquiao fights. However, if Cotto can rough him up a little bit and land some nice body shots he'll have a chance. That could slow Pacquiao's movement down, and take some of the sting off his punches. However, since the late rounds of the Mosley fight I haven't seen it in Cotto. I see a long night for Cotto, eating uppercuts through that guard and backing up in the late rounds. Pacquiao by wide unanimous decision.
Douchebag
QUOTE (KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN @ Jun 29 2009, 02:40 PM) *
I think Pac will just have too much speed for Cotto. I think that advantage will neutralize all the other advantages, as it has in other Pacquiao fights. However, if Cotto can rough him up a little bit and land some nice body shots he'll have a chance. That could slow Pacquiao's movement down, and take some of the sting off his punches. However, since the late rounds of the Mosley fight I haven't seen it in Cotto. I see a long night for Cotto, eating uppercuts through that guard and backing up in the late rounds. Pacquiao by wide unanimous decision.


The same thought was a applied in the Mosley and Judah fights and we know how that ended up. If Pac wins its going to be because of some other factor combined with his speed. Cotto has proven that he can deal with world class speedsters before so I don't know why anyone would hang the Pac win over that one attribute alone. And I really don't see Cotto backing up from Pac at all. I think that if Pac wins its because he caught Cotto with some thing big on the inside. No way do I see him trying to make this a boxing match with the smaller man.
The Original MrFactor
I agree whole heartedly with his pick. I think its a one way affair. Pac get battered like Carlos Quintanna did...
Douchebag
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jun 29 2009, 04:13 PM) *
I agree whole heartedly with his pick. I think its a one way affair. Pac get battered like Carlos Quintanna did...


Apparently, I'm the biggest Cotto nuthugger on this board, but I don't see as a one way affair at all. I think who ever wins this fight is going to know they where in one the next day. Pre plastergate I would pick Cotto without hesitations but right now I just don't know.
Box in Hand
Cotto has problems with taller pressure fighters who can take his shots. Manny isn't that so it should be interesting. I'm going with a Pacman win on this though.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Here's the thing...I think Pacquiao is faster than Judah and Mosley. Judah had a lot of success against Cotto when he let his hands go, but he just refused to let them go after the 3rd round. Pacquiao won't be afraid to let those hands go, and he'll use more side to side movement than Mosley used against Cotto. In his last three fights Pacquiao has improved a lot with side to side movement, and used it well against Diaz, DLH, and Hatton. I really feel that speed, movement, and also the pressure Pacquiao will put on him will give Cotto a hard time. Like I said, it's not impossible for Cotto to win either. If Cotto can use an effective jab or bang that body to limit the movement he can have some success. However, I don't see that happening. I see Pacquiao winning a wide decision doing the things I just mentioned.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Jun 29 2009, 11:30 AM) *
LOL! I thought I have already seen these opponents' advantages before. According to the article, Pacquiao has nothing... read NOTHING against Cotto. So he must have 0% chance of winning.

Or perhaps he forgot item #11. Unpredictability. Or item #12. Luck.

yeah, that was my first thought also. This dick thinks Cotto is just going to wipe the floors with the number 1 P4P right now, apparently Pac doesn't have any advantage, I don't know how Cotto has ever lost.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 05:42 PM) *
yeah, that was my first thought also. This dick thinks Cotto is just going to wipe the floors with the number 1 P4P right now, apparently Pac doesn't have any advantage, I don't know how Cotto has ever lost.



Manny doesnt really have that many advantages. His speed is a bit overrated. He's smaller his defense aint great. He aint as powerful. He aint as young. When you think about it, Manny has very few advantages here. Cotto is bigger, better defensively. He's a better boxer and has more power. Manny is in trouble. Cotto should clean up in a one sided affair.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 29 2009, 09:39 AM) *
10.) Speed- Even though this asset goes to Pacquiao, Cotto will know how use it in his benefit and counter; making it to his advantage; not the Pacmanís.

9.) Power- Pacman has tons of pop, but Cotto still has the advantage here, especially given his size advantage and body attack.

8.) Punch Selection- Cotto knows what to throw and when to throw it.

7. ) Size- No explanation needed here, Cotto is much bigger!

6.) Boxing Skills- As much as Manny has improved, he still isnít as technically sound as the Puerto Rican.

5.) Defense- Cotto has very good and probably under rated defense. He will be able to parry Pacís straight left hand with ease.

4.) Experience- Both men have significant ring experience, but I think Cottoís will better suit him for this fight; mainly because of his fight against Shane Mosley.

3.) Respect- Cotto will show respect for Mannyís power instead of simply running in like an amateur a la Hatton.

2.) Will- Both men have great heart, grit and will, but Cotto has had to show it more often, and has no problem doing so.

AND THE #1 REASON WHY COTTO WILL BEAT PAC

1.) Ring IQ- Cotto simply understands the game slightly better; giving him the knowledge and know how to beat Pac.


Matthew R. Grizzle

Note: Mr. Grizzle, himself a former MMA fighter is one of our "new stars" featured exclusively here at www.RingTalk.com You can leave your (respectful) comments below.

10 - No
8 - No
6 - No
5 - No
4 - No
1 - No

Whoever came up with that list is obviously smoking crack.

The only advantages Cotto has over Pacquiao are size and power. That's it...
Sugar Q
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 29 2009, 10:39 AM) *
Eventhough I don't necessarily agree with his reasons (especially number one, I think they are pretty even here) I thought it would make for good discussion.

LINK

TOP 10 REASONS WHY COTTO BEATS PACQUIAO!
29 June, 2009 by Matthew R. Grizzle

Las Vegas, N- Over the past several months I have made two predictions regarding Manny Pacquiao (49-3-2, 37 KOs); one was that he would beat Oscar De La Hoya (39-6, 30 KOs) and the other was that he would take care of business with Ricky Hatton (45-2, 32 KOs). As Pacquiao looks toward his next bout in November against Miguel Cotto (34-1, 27 KOs), I will make another prediction; this one not in the favor of the beloved Pacman.

FILIPINOíS LUCK & RUN COMING TO END

Being a fan of both fighters isnít an issue for me in making this pick. My feelings towards fighters rarely interfere with the objective nature of journalism. However, I will tell you this; Manny Pacquiao will lose to Miguel Cotto. This time, Manny and his team have simply bitten off more than they can chew. I am very, very happy to see Manny and his trainer Freddie Roach finally get their props, but I donít think there is any game plan that they can come up with against Cotto that will have an end result in their favor.

BE HONEST, OSCAR WAS MORE SHOT THAN TUPAC!

When De La Hoya fought Steve Forbes (34-7, 10 KOs), I could tell he wasnít who he once was, and when the Pac fight was signed I knew he wouldnít be able to keep the little Filipino off of him. When Pac signed to face the overrated Ricky Hatton, I knew he would stop him as Hatton doesnít even know how to spell defense, let alone show it in the ring. But with Cotto, it will be too much. Cotto isnít just a big name, he isnít just an icon in Puerto Rico, and he isnít just a legitimate welterweight with legitimate boxing skills and solid power. He is however all of this and more, and on top of that, he wonít come charging in like a drunk Mancunian and at the set catch weight of 145 lbs, he wonít come in completely drained.

ITíLL BE COTTOíS NOVEMBER TO REMEMBER

Even if Cotto has lost a step since getting hit with bricks last year (Antonio Margarito), he still has more than enough left to take care of Pacquiao. He was able to deal with Shane Mosleyís (46-5, 39 KOs) blinding speed, and he will make the necessary adjustments to deal with Pacís speed. If Cotto comes in injury free and doesnít have difficulty making weight, this will be a vicious one sided affair in favor of the Puerto Rican. I love Manny Pacquiao not only for what he has done for the sport, but also for the generous, kind person that he is, but in this fight, I canít see him having much of a shot.

TEN REASONS COTTO WILL BEAT PACQUIAO

10.) Speed- Even though this asset goes to Pacquiao, Cotto will know how use it in his benefit and counter; making it to his advantage; not the Pacmanís.

9.) Power- Pacman has tons of pop, but Cotto still has the advantage here, especially given his size advantage and body attack.

8.) Punch Selection- Cotto knows what to throw and when to throw it.

7. ) Size- No explanation needed here, Cotto is much bigger!

6.) Boxing Skills- As much as Manny has improved, he still isnít as technically sound as the Puerto Rican.

5.) Defense- Cotto has very good and probably under rated defense. He will be able to parry Pacís straight left hand with ease.

4.) Experience- Both men have significant ring experience, but I think Cottoís will better suit him for this fight; mainly because of his fight against Shane Mosley.

3.) Respect- Cotto will show respect for Mannyís power instead of simply running in like an amateur a la Hatton.

2.) Will- Both men have great heart, grit and will, but Cotto has had to show it more often, and has no problem doing so.

AND THE #1 REASON WHY COTTO WILL BEAT PAC

1.) Ring IQ- Cotto simply understands the game slightly better; giving him the knowledge and know how to beat Pac.


Matthew R. Grizzle

Note: Mr. Grizzle, himself a former MMA fighter is one of our "new stars" featured exclusively here at www.RingTalk.com You can leave your (respectful) comments below.



I think people tend to overlook Cotto's recent quality of opposition. Cotto's compared to Pacquiao's is far better. Shane, Margarito and Clottey is a very tough bunch of characters to face that's why I'm riding with Cotto in this fight. Ricky Hatton, Oscar or Diaz would've lost to those guys also in more brutal fashion. Hatton was KO'd so fast by Pacquiao that he may be able to come back but against these guys I think he would be totally destroyed.
Keith
I think we may be discussing the "mystery" disadvantage that Pac is facing. Its obvious he has faster hands and footwork then Cotto and Pacs punch may have followed him up through the weight classes for the most part. But has his chin and armor coating? Diaz, DLH, and Hatton hardly landed any punches on Pac. They were never able to test his chin and armor. This was partly due to Pacs speed and skill but also because those dudes were either slow or lacked one punch sting. Its the big mystery. Can Pac take the heavy hands of a true welter? I dont think he can. I think it would be entirley short cited to believe Cotto wont land some blows.
torvix2000
Item #13. Cotto is washed up already.
torvix2000
In terms of skills, again, a lot of people are citing Diaz, DLH, and Hatton. LOL! Pacquiao was schooled/trained by Freddie Roach, Barrera, Marquez, and Morales for 7 fights at lower weight classes. Have you ever wondered why big men couldn't hit Pac? Well, perhaps because Pacquiao was so used to tracking precision and quick punches of smaller men. And when he bulked up he still has that skill. And when he relatively brought up his speed and power up with him, it brought troubles to those big men. Not to mention Pac's skills of landing punches on top notch opposition (well somebody laughed at me for this fact).
rusty_trombone
All I have to say is that anyone that get hits as much as Cotto did against Margarito is a fucking moron, Mosley didn't let that fucker lay glove on him. If slow ass Margs is tagging Cotto up, I think Pac will have a field day with him. Cotto hasn't fought many "hit and don't get hit" fighters, and that's exactly what Pac is going to do. Cotto has fought alot of guys that get hit a lot, and don't have particularly good defense or head movement, or any movement for that matter. Maybe Malignaggi, but Pac is way better than that fucker.

But remember this point, if Margarito is hitting you anyone can.
Douchebag
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Jun 29 2009, 07:59 PM) *
Item #13. Cotto is washed up already.



ding, ding, ding......................IF you are wrong it spells bad news for Manny.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 29 2009, 07:51 PM) *
Can Pac take the heavy hands of a true welter? I dont think he can. I think it would be entirley short cited to believe Cotto wont land some blows.

Listen, as washed up as DLH was, Pac made him look like he was never even able to fight. Don't you think it would have been "short cited" to think DLH wouldn't have landed anything? It's not like DLH was never a world class boxer, shit he could still throw his hands he just didn't land anything.
Douchebag
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:13 PM) *
All I have to say is that anyone that get hits as much as Cotto did against Margarito is a fucking moron, Mosley didn't let that fucker lay glove on him. If slow ass Margs is tagging Cotto up, I think Pac will have a field day with him. Cotto hasn't fought many "hit and don't get hit" fighters, and that's exactly what Pac is going to do. Cotto has fought alot of guys that get hit a lot, and don't have particularly good defense or head movement, or any movement for that matter. Maybe Malignaggi, but Pac is way better than that fucker.

But remember this point, if Margarito is hitting you anyone can.



Not really fair, because Marg wasn't hitting shit till after the 6th round when Cotto started getting tired.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Jun 29 2009, 07:59 PM) *
Item #13. Cotto is washed up already.

I think he might be, he's been in some wars and gotten hit with concrete hands for 12 rounds.
Douchebag
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:16 PM) *
Listen, as washed up as DLH was, Pac made him look like he was never even able to fight. Don't you think it would have been "short cited" to think DLH wouldn't have landed anything? It's not like DLH was never a world class boxer, shit he could still throw his hands he just didn't land anything.



Nah man, a blind man could see that Goldy couldn't pull the trigger in that fight. Cotto is still live.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 29 2009, 08:17 PM) *
Not really fair, because Marg wasn't hitting shit till after the 6th round when Cotto started getting tired.

Well, is he gonna get tired in the 6th against Pac? Somehow Mosley went a whole fight with Margs not landing a thing. It's not like Margarito sped up in the 6th round, he's still a slow, plodding, no defense, dickbag.
Keith
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Jun 29 2009, 08:04 PM) *
In terms of skills, again, a lot of people are citing Diaz, DLH, and Hatton. LOL! Pacquiao was schooled/trained by Freddie Roach, Barrera, Marquez, and Morales for 7 fights at lower weight classes. Have you ever wondered why big men couldn't hit Pac? Well, perhaps because Pacquiao was so used to tracking precision and quick punches of smaller men. And when he bulked up he still has that skill. And when he relatively brought up his speed and power up with him, it brought troubles to those big men. Not to mention Pac's skills of landing punches on top notch opposition (well somebody laughed at me for this fact).

Your right, Pac will one day be the middleweight champ because his speed and skills are insurmountable for any size foe. Hell, why stop at middleweight. He is faster then any fighter above him in weight so he can beat anybody according to your logic. Answer this question:

Why does he need a catchweight if his speed and skill are unbeatable?
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 29 2009, 08:18 PM) *
Nah man, a blind man could see that Goldy couldn't pull the trigger in that fight. Cotto is still live.

That's ridiculous, even Roy Jones can still pull the trigger occasionally. Pac was just tagging him and wasn't there to get hit, DLH would still kick the crap out of alot of good competition, he wasn't throwing because of Pac.
Douchebag
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:18 PM) *
Well, is he gonna get tired in the 6th against Pac? Somehow Mosley went a whole fight with Margs not landing a thing. It's not like Margarito sped up in the 6th round, he's still a slow, plodding, no defense, dickbag.



We've been through this already. The reason Mosley was able to put Marg away was because 1. he worked the body and 2. he didn't let Marg walk him down. Cotto did neitther.
Douchebag
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:21 PM) *
That's ridiculous, even Roy Jones can still pull the trigger occasionally. Pac was just tagging him and wasn't there to get hit, DLH would still kick the crap out of alot of good competition, he wasn't throwing because of Pac.



What's ridiculous is you not acknowledging that Goldie was past it and weighed LESS then Pac on fight night after not weighing less the 150 in like 10 years. If you don't think that played in to that one sided ass drubbing you are smoking crack. That version of Goldie loses to Andre Berto. LMAO! Shit, there where reports that Victor Ortiz was kicking Oscars ass in sparring before the fight with Manny so that should let you know something right there.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 29 2009, 08:19 PM) *
Why does he need a catchweight if his speed and skill are unbeatable?

Eventually, obviously, it catches up with you and it's more about making heavy guys struggle to make weight. But Cotto, I don't think is "too big", shit he's not 6 feet tall, he's only 5'7". He may be heavier, but I think Pac has plenty of pop to handle that, Cotto won't walk through his shots.
Keith
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:13 PM) *
All I have to say is that anyone that get hits as much as Cotto did against Margarito is a fucking moron, Mosley didn't let that fucker lay glove on him. If slow ass Margs is tagging Cotto up, I think Pac will have a field day with him. Cotto hasn't fought many "hit and don't get hit" fighters, and that's exactly what Pac is going to do. Cotto has fought alot of guys that get hit a lot, and don't have particularly good defense or head movement, or any movement for that matter. Maybe Malignaggi, but Pac is way better than that fucker.

But remember this point, if Margarito is hitting you anyone can.

Mosley possesed the skill set required to beat the shit out of Margs. He has heavier hands the Cotto, and Shane also attacked Margs body from round 1. Combine the heavier hands with a better game plan and you wound up with a much different result.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 29 2009, 08:21 PM) *
We've been through this already. The reason Mosley was able to put Marg away was because 1. he worked the body and 2. he didn't let Marg walk him down. Cotto did neitther.

So another advantage Pac has, we know exactly what fight Cotto is going to fight.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 29 2009, 08:27 PM) *
Mosley possesed the skill set required to beat the shit out of Margs. He has heavier hands the Cotto, and Shane also attacked Margs body from round 1. Combine the heavier hands with a better game plan and you wound up with a much differnt result.

The point is not the final result, the point is Margarito never laid a hand on Mosley, but somehow got to Cotto. I don't care who you are, if you are a world class fighter, a shitbag like Margs should NEVER be getting to you.
Douchebag
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:28 PM) *
So another advantage Pac has, we know exactly what fight Cotto is going to fight.



thumbsdown_anim.gif Pac is not Marg and he is not going to walk Cotto down I don't care what you or anybody else wants to believe not happening. He may KO Cotto but it won't be some where he pressure Cotto until he wilts like Marg did.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 29 2009, 08:24 PM) *
What's ridiculous is you not acknowledging that Goldie was past it and weighed LESS then Pac on fight night after not weighing less the 150 in like 10 years. If you don't think that played in to that one sided ass drubbing you are smoking crack. That version of Goldie loses to Andre Berto. LMAO! Shit, there where reports that Victor Ortiz was kicking Oscars ass in sparring before the fight with Manny so that should let you know something right there.

I agree that DLH was past it, but it's not like DLH should have not even landed a meaningful punch. That's the point. I will not state it again, if you can't understand there is no other way for me to explain it.

As far as reports of Ortiz beating Oscar in sparring, I just don't accept any BS conjecture that comes from some guy who might have been at the gym during sparring. "Some reports" in boxing equates to alot of bullshit.
Douchebag
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:33 PM) *
I agree that DLH was past it, but it's not like DLH should have not even landed a meaningful punch. That's the point. I will not state it again, if you can't understand there is no other way for me to explain it.

As far as reports of Ortiz beating Oscar in sparring, I just don't accept any BS conjecture that comes from some guy who might have been at the gym during sparring. "Some reports" in boxing equates to alot of bullshit.



That should be the first clue to let you know that something wasn't right with Goldie. LMAO
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 29 2009, 08:31 PM) *
thumbsdown_anim.gif Pac is not Marg and he is not going to walk Cotto down I don't care what you or anybody else wants to believe not happening. He may KO Cotto but it won't be some where he pressure Cotto until he wilts like Marg did.

You're not very good at staying on topic are you. Of course he won't pressure Cotto, but Cotto fights the same fight almost every fight.

As far as saying something never will happen, I believe we have seen alot of nevers happen recently in boxing. You can sell yourself out like that, but maybe a bit more rationality should enter the equation. I mean what happens if Pac sticks Cotto real good with a shot he doesn't see coming? All it takes is one well placed punch to back a guy up, or imagine this, maybe Pac has enough power a speed to get Cotto's respect? Not the most likely outcome, but far from "not happening"
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 29 2009, 08:35 PM) *
That should be the first clue to let you know that something wasn't right with Goldie. LMAO

Maybe it should be the first clue on how good Pac is?
Douchebag
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:38 PM) *
Maybe it should be the first clue on how good Pac is?


Oh, don't tell me you have been infected too. The Pacmaniacs are like the borg absorbing knowledgeable boxing fans in to their delusional ranks. LMAO


Seriously, Oscar WOULD have done MUCH better he where over 150 on fight night.
Douchebag
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:38 PM) *
You're not very good at staying on topic are you. Of course he won't pressure Cotto, but Cotto fights the same fight almost every fight.

As far as saying something never will happen, I believe we have seen alot of nevers happen recently in boxing. You can sell yourself out like that, but maybe a bit more rationality should enter the equation. I mean what happens if Pac sticks Cotto real good with a shot he doesn't see coming? All it takes is one well placed punch to back a guy up, or imagine this, maybe Pac has enough power a speed to get Cotto's respect? Not the most likely outcome, but far from "not happening"



He didn't fight that way when he fought Zab Judah, or Carlos Quntana wink.gif and if Cotto gets caught like that I have confidence in Pac's skill set to put him away right there and then. It wont be some long drawn out ass wooping like the Marg fight, thats my call and I'm sticking to it.
King Eugene
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:21 PM) *
That's ridiculous, even Roy Jones can still pull the trigger occasionally. Pac was just tagging him and wasn't there to get hit, DLH would still kick the crap out of alot of good competition, he wasn't throwing because of Pac.

Hey Hey Hey...lets keep Roy out of this
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Keith
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:38 PM) *
You're not very good at staying on topic are you. Of course he won't pressure Cotto, but Cotto fights the same fight almost every fight.

As far as saying something never will happen, I believe we have seen alot of nevers happen recently in boxing. You can sell yourself out like that, but maybe a bit more rationality should enter the equation. I mean what happens if Pac sticks Cotto real good with a shot he doesn't see coming? All it takes is one well placed punch to back a guy up, or imagine this, maybe Pac has enough power a speed to get Cotto's respect? Not the most likely outcome, but far from "not happening"

Maybe you should be more rational. Has Pac been hit solid by a true welter? What if Cotto times Pac darting in with a shot he doesnt see coming. What happens then?
Sugar Q
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 29 2009, 07:51 PM) *
I think we may be discussing the "mystery" disadvantage that Pac is facing. Its obvious he has faster hands and footwork then Cotto and Pacs punch may have followed him up through the weight classes for the most part. But has his chin and armor coating? Diaz, DLH, and Hatton hardly landed any punches on Pac. They were never able to test his chin and armor. This was partly due to Pacs speed and skill but also because those dudes were either slow or lacked one punch sting. Its the big mystery. Can Pac take the heavy hands of a true welter? I dont think he can. I think it would be entirley short cited to believe Cotto wont land some blows.


We're in agreement here Keith. I think Pacquiao will be the question in this fight not Cotto. Cotto is an underrated boxer and definitely hits harder than Pacquiao. I say that because I can't imagine Oscar taking Cotto's punches like he took Pacquiao's. They would've carried Oscar out of the ring if that would've been Cotto hitting him. I think that's a good way to measure how hard Pacquiao hits. I wouldn't take him for granted but if Cotto comes in like Cotto he will stop Manny.
Keith
I like Pac but at some weight he has to be stopped. The whole catchweight deal is a clear indication to me that he or his team is not sold on the fact he can bang with welters.
torvix2000
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Jun 30 2009, 12:42 AM) *
Oh, don't tell me you have been infected too. The Pacmaniacs are like the borg absorbing knowledgeable boxing fans in to their delusional ranks. LMAO


Seriously, Oscar WOULD have done MUCH better he where over 150 on fight night.


Seriously, what would it have done? He could be slower.
torvix2000
QUOTE (keith @ Jun 30 2009, 12:19 AM) *
Your right, Pac will one day be the middleweight champ because his speed and skills are insurmountable for any size foe. Hell, why stop at middleweight. He is faster then any fighter above him in weight so he can beat anybody according to your logic. Answer this question:

Why does he need a catchweight if his speed and skill are unbeatable?


LOL! There's nothing wrong with what I posted. Pac has

1. been trained by Roach, Barrera, Morales, and Marquez.
2. the skills of tracking the trajectories of the quick and sharp punches of these smaller men
3. carried his speed and power up with him when he moved up to the heavier weights

Why do you exaggerate too much what I've posted? I'm just presenting some facts and some opinions on why Pac will beat Cotto.
provo
I HOPE and would Love to see Pac get knocked the fuck out! I hope cotto destroys him ! Put I don't believe he can , cotto looked slow his last fight everytime he threw punches they would come from his waist line leaving him open ,clottey caught him everytime he threw ,just clottey didn't throw enough. Pac would throw 2 to 4 punch combos and bounce out all day while cotto getting tagged all night sitting down on his punches trying to throw and get hit... pac wins TKO by 10..
But im going for cotto ! Just like I was when he fought clottey , but he looked like shit....
obamausa8


This is an interesting discussion.. thank you for sharing.


pret auto
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Jun 29 2009, 08:30 PM) *
The point is not the final result, the point is Margarito never laid a hand on Mosley, but somehow got to Cotto. I don't care who you are, if you are a world class fighter, a shitbag like Margs should NEVER be getting to you.


The difference between Cotto/Marg and Mosley/Marg was that Cotto attacked from directly in front of Margarito. He moved his head very well, but his feet remained planted in from of Tony, leaving his body vulnerable. In round 2, I saw the handwriting on the wall. Cotto got beat up really bad in round 2.

Mosley attacked from the side exclusively. Mosley never stayed in front of Margarito. Margarito didnt have a plan b to simply turn and face Mosley. Mosley was able to tear his ass up without staying in front of him. Also Mosley went to the body from round 1. Tony looked very uncomfortable when Mosley threw that 1st jab to his body. Mosley had the absolute perfect game plan for beating Margarito.
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