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D-MARV
Steve Kim is reporting that Showtime will announce this in the next coming weeks.

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Names that are being brought up are Ward, Kessler, and possibly Carl Froch...


Bute-Andrade II will take place on the undercard of Floyd-JMM...

Looks like 2009 will go out with a bang.
Keith
Sweet! Tournaments Rule!

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D-MARV
QUOTE (keith @ Jul 3 2009, 07:11 PM) *
Sweet! Tournaments Rule!

clapping.gif thumbsup_anim.gif yahoo.gif pleasantry.gif

They sure do... I wish they would happen more often.
Romulus9
This is our first tournament since, what, 2000-2001, with the middleweights? The one that culminated with Hopkins-Trinidad?

I still remember the heavyweight unification series on HBO, and the names that were a part of it: Witherspoon, Bonecrusher Smith, Tyson, Tucker, etc.

A nice tournament will be great for the 168 pounders. I wish Taylor would get another shot at Carl Froch.
EirbinX
This is great with the exception that i dont have Showtime bad.gif


on a side note: any one know where i can get copies of great fights on dvd....like arguello pryor and hagler hearns, ray leonard hearns 1,2...etc.
Romulus9
QUOTE (EirbinX @ Jul 3 2009, 08:04 PM) *
This is great with the exception that i dont have Showtime bad.gif


on a side note: any one know where i can get copies of great fights on dvd....like arguello pryor and hagler hearns, ray leonard hearns 1,2...etc.



customizedvds.com is great for that kind of thing. career sets, individual fights, etc.

great quality too
EirbinX
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jul 3 2009, 08:46 PM) *
customizedvds.com is great for that kind of thing. career sets, individual fights, etc.

great quality too

thanks alot ok.gif
Jack 1000
Great news! Any type of tournaments like this set good examples for boxing to follow.

Jack
D-MARV
Here are the fights that are being worked out... Not even close to being signed but here's what I've read so far.

Athur Abraham Vs Jermain Taylor

Carl Froch Vs Andre Dirrell

M. Kessler Vs Andre Ward.
lloyd mayflower
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=20831

You probably all read this already but heres a more detailed article on it. Sounds shit hot to me.

This could be a severe kick in the balls to Kelly Pavlik, altho i feel he deserves it. Hes been dicking around for too long avoiding the fights at 160 people want to see.
D-MARV
I Love It!!!!


Pavlik will be FORCED to fight PWill.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
I love this concept, and showtime has actually already done a super middleweight tourney. It obviously wasn't with guys on this level though, and that makes it even more exciting. Jean Paul Mendy beat Anthony Hanshaw in the last tournament on Showtime. Sounds like there will be some exciting fights to come out of this.
EirbinX
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jul 4 2009, 10:04 AM) *
I Love It!!!!


Pavlik will be FORCED to fight PWill.

yea...but i dont think p will, will winpavlik punches WAY Harder than anyone pwill has ever faced and pavlik can go to the body often. the work rate to me isn't really gonna be a factor in this one if it waz set up
D-MARV
PWill would beat Pavlik from Post to Post. Pavlik needs to set up before he unleashes his "Power" punches. By the time he set his feet and have his punches selected he would have been hit 6 times. Pavlik doesn't see the final bell in this one. Arum knows this too. That's why he refuses to make this match.
salvador
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jul 4 2009, 02:04 PM) *
PWill would beat Pavlik from Post to Post. Pavlik needs to set up before he unleashes his "Power" punches. By the time he set his feet and have his punches selected he would have been hit 6 times. Pavlik doesn't see the final bell in this one. Arum knows this too. That's why he refuses to make this match.


I hate asking this question so frequently here, but do you have some kind of tangible info that Arum has turned this down? I tend to think that Pavlik might do very very well against Williams because Williams isn't going to expose Pavlik's lack of footwork. Further, Williams is there to trade and Pavlik will find Williams' chin early and often - and Pavlik definitely has a much stronger punch. I'm on the Williams bandwagon big time and I wouldn't be even a little surprised to see him win, but no way will he ko Pavlik. Pavlik, on the other hand, could very easily win by ko.

Also, are you Southeastpaw?
D-MARV
LMAO... I'm not Southeastpaw.

Arum and Goosen were in talks of a possible fight between Pavlik-Williams last year. Arum tried to rape Williams on the offer sheet. The rumor I heard was that he offered Williams less then a Million. Williams was willing to fight anyway then Hayman (PWill's advisor) said HELL NO!. Arum got pissed and refused to work with Hayman. Which is also the main reason why we never got Margarito-Williams II. I feel bad because I called Margarito a bunch of names but it wasn't him. It was the fucker Arum. Arum prevents more superfights from happening then anybody in the sport. FUCK ARUM.
salvador
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jul 4 2009, 04:24 PM) *
LMAO... I'm not Southeastpaw.

Arum and Goosen were in talks of a possible fight between Pavlik-Williams last year. Arum tried to rape Williams on the offer sheet. The rumor I heard was that he offered Williams less then a Million. Williams was willing to fight anyway then Hayman (PWill's advisor) said HELL NO!. Arum got pissed and refused to work with Hayman. Which is also the main reason why we never got Margarito-Williams II. I feel bad because I called Margarito a bunch of names but it wasn't him. It was the fucker Arum. Arum prevents more superfights from happening then anybody in the sport. FUCK ARUM.


Interesting.

I just really wish Williams could get fights at 147 because it's not fair that he has to go up two weight divisions to get a name.

In any case, Pavlik has been exposed and he wasn't even a star before the Hopkins fight. Williams is probably a bigger draw at this point. So the fight should be relatively easy to make.
Blayde
That tourney would be unbelievably awesome. And Im not saying it will happen like that, but Im confident something nice will be announced soon. At least Sauerland said that the promoters were planning something big at super middleweight including Abraham.
JonnyBlaze
I hope ya all remember me talkin about how big the super middleweight division was going to be this year..I also mentioned the cruiserweight division too and the contender show was cruiserweights,now it's time for the super middleweights..2 hottest divisions in boxing outside of welterweight..I had a feeling all this would happen in those 2 divisions..There need to be more cruiserweight fights on TV now since there are so many good fights to be made there,just like super middle..
Keith
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jul 4 2009, 03:04 PM) *
PWill would beat Pavlik from Post to Post. Pavlik needs to set up before he unleashes his "Power" punches. By the time he set his feet and have his punches selected he would have been hit 6 times. Pavlik doesn't see the final bell in this one. Arum knows this too. That's why he refuses to make this match.


Oh no! You didnt just say that. KO... really? I disagree that Pavlik needs to "set up" before he lets his hands go. He just needs his opponent square in front of him... which happens to be what Williams does quite often when he is trying to get off "6 times". Williams is not a defensive wizard, he can be hit.
Keith
QUOTE (salvador @ Jul 4 2009, 07:25 PM) *
Interesting.

I just really wish Williams could get fights at 147 because it's not fair that he has to go up two weight divisions to get a name.

In any case, Pavlik has been exposed and he wasn't even a star before the Hopkins fight. Williams is probably a bigger draw at this point. So the fight should be relatively easy to make.


If exposed means moving up 2 weight classes and getting beat by a very good fighter while running a fever... then ya I guess Pavlik was exposed. It was completely one sided and even then Pavlik was never knocked down or in any serious trouble. Exposed is way too harsh a word for what happened in that fight.
D-MARV
QUOTE (keith @ Jul 5 2009, 12:32 PM) *
If exposed means moving up 2 weight classes and getting beat by a very good fighter while running a fever... then ya I guess Pavlik was exposed. It was completely one sided and even then Pavlik was never knocked down or in any serious trouble. Exposed is way too harsh a word for what happened in that fight.

If I remember correctly, Pavlik was in serious trouble numerous times during that fight. Anyways...

Both men a looking for fights... there's a September date that HBO reserved for PWill. MAKE THE FUCKING FIGHT!
Keith
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jul 5 2009, 02:40 PM) *
If I remember correctly, Pavlik was in serious trouble numerous times during that fight. Anyways...

Both men a looking for fights... there's a September date that HBO reserved for PWill. MAKE THE FUCKING FIGHT!


Oh I would love to see the fight! Maybe are interpretations of serious trouble are different. I would define it as in danger of being knocked down. How about you?
D-MARV
QUOTE (keith @ Jul 5 2009, 03:26 PM) *
Oh I would love to see the fight! Maybe are interpretations of serious trouble are different. I would define it as in danger of being knocked down. How about you?

I could be wrong... But Pavlik seemed to be buckled on more than one occasion and at one point (I think the 12th) he was on the verge of being stopped. I never saw the fight on TV though. I was at the fight.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 5 2009, 10:48 PM) *
Who cares, Pavlik is ordinary and I have been saying that from the start. He is crude, one dimensional and got exposed big time. He has been trying to give himself a buck up by looking for garbage fights since he got embarrassed and will probably be left in the cold.


pavlik is out in the cold right now in my opinion fitz... when was his last fight and when does he fight again?.. i dont think he has anything scheduled.... he is considered the middleweight champ he should be making the big fights... on a side note i read a few weeks ago he was having trouble with alcohol... dont know how true that is...
Byrd Man
hmmm...interesting. Wasn't his place, eh?

QUOTE
First time writer. Were you in the loop about Showtime's super middleweight tournament? What's up with Allan Green? He could have been a participant on this tournament since I think he's just as deserving, if not more than, Direll and Ward. What's your take?

Leon's Response: Of course I was aware of it, but it wasn't my place to break the story. Now that it's out there, well, I'm still a bit confused as to why we've been excluded. Jermain Taylor is 1-2 as a super middleweight (1-3 in his last four), he's lost by stoppage and to a middleweight, hasn't stopped anything in the last five years (including his bad habits) and has NO BUSINESS being in any super middleweight tourney that excludes Allan Green. The old saying goes, there's a lot of room between the cup and the lip, and I don't believe all of these guys have given their formal committments. I find it hard to believe that we would be passed over again if one of those guys didn't pan out. I've also heard that Lucian Bute not wanting to participate lead to us becoming the odd man out. At the end of the day, I'm confident that our promoter will eventually treat Allan like someone who won his last fight more impressively than Jermain has won any fight at 168. What still bothers me more than all of this, is how Allan was screwed out of his chance to fight Jermain Taylor on April 25. Had our verbal agreement with our promoter been worth anything, this division would be flowing through Green. Allan is responsible for two of fhe most brutal knockouts Showtime has ever aired, yet he's on the outside looking in, which as Don King would say, is a sad, sad commentary. Has anybody EVER had more than one brutal knockout on Showtime like Allan Green? Perhaps he should still fight like an amatuer, allow years to pass before he stops anybody, and reinvent ways on how to lose, maybe that would put him on Jermain Taylor's level.
salvador
QUOTE (keith @ Jul 5 2009, 11:32 AM) *
If exposed means moving up 2 weight classes and getting beat by a very good fighter while running a fever... then ya I guess Pavlik was exposed. It was completely one sided and even then Pavlik was never knocked down or in any serious trouble. Exposed is way too harsh a word for what happened in that fight.


What was exposed was his lack of footwork and his inability to deal with lateral movement.

Pavlik has really straight, hard punches and he can take a punch. Further, he's got a great body (long and lean with long arms) for the sport, but he fights with flat feet. Hopkins beat him with speed and lateral movement and in doing so gave the boxing world the blueprint for how to beat Pavlik. And at this point in Pavlik's career, his foot work is going to be extremely hard to correct.

Pavlik looks great against guys who stand in front of him like Taylor and Miranda, and that's exactly what Williams will do because Williams' footwork ain't all that great either. The more I think about this fight the more I like Pavlik by ko.

Keith
QUOTE (salvador @ Jul 6 2009, 02:47 PM) *
What was exposed was his lack of footwork and his inability to deal with lateral movement.

Pavlik has really straight, hard punches and he can take a punch. Further, he's got a great body (long and lean with long arms) for the sport, but he fights with flat feet. Hopkins beat him with speed and lateral movement and in doing so gave the boxing world the blueprint for how to beat Pavlik. And at this point in Pavlik's career, his foot work is going to be extremely hard to correct.

Pavlik looks great against guys who stand in front of him like Taylor and Miranda, and that's exactly what Williams will do because Williams' footwork ain't all that great either. The more I think about this fight the more I like Pavlik by ko.


Well then Sal, we agree on just about everything if this matchup happens. Cheers my friend! drinks.gif. Hopkins did "expose" a blueprint on how to beat Pavlik. Would you agree that Pavliks weaknesses are much less of an issue at 160, and when he isnt suffering from an illness?
D-MARV
QUOTE (salvador @ Jul 6 2009, 02:47 PM) *
What was exposed was his lack of footwork and his inability to deal with lateral movement.

Pavlik has really straight, hard punches and he can take a punch. Further, he's got a great body (long and lean with long arms) for the sport, but he fights with flat feet. Hopkins beat him with speed and lateral movement and in doing so gave the boxing world the blueprint for how to beat Pavlik. And at this point in Pavlik's career, his foot work is going to be extremely hard to correct.

Pavlik looks great against guys who stand in front of him like Taylor and Miranda, and that's exactly what Williams will do because Williams' footwork ain't all that great either. The more I think about this fight the more I like Pavlik by ko.



I think you should watch some more film on PWill. PWill gives plenty of movement! And when he does stand in front of you, he's throwing about 30 punches at you... it's whatever though, call it how you see it. I think most people would pick Pavlik by KO anyways. That's good because if this fight does happen then it would be all the better for PWill.
salvador
QUOTE (keith @ Jul 6 2009, 03:43 PM) *
Well then Sal, we agree on just about everything if this matchup happens. Cheers my friend! drinks.gif. Hopkins did "expose" a blueprint on how to beat Pavlik. Would you agree that Pavliks weaknesses are much less of an issue at 160, and when he isnt suffering from an illness?


I don't know anything about an illness. What I do know is that Pavlik fights flat footed. At 160 his length and power and chin are all presumably relatively stronger than at 170. But it wasn't Hopkins' size that mattered that night, it was his speed and footwork. It's actually not that different than Quintana's first fight with Williams in that Quintana's speed and footwork were the difference in that fight as well.

Off the top of my head I can't think of anyone at 160 who has the footwork or speed to beat Pavlik. I would love to have seen Pavlik-Pascal at 168.
salvador
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jul 6 2009, 03:53 PM) *
I think you should watch some more film on PWill. PWill gives plenty of movement! And when he does stand in front of you, he's throwing about 30 punches at you... it's whatever though, call it how you see it. I think most people would pick Pavlik by KO anyways. That's good because if this fight does happen then it would be all the better for PWill.


I'm totally on board with Williams, but IF there was a nightmare matchup for him then Pavlik might just be it.

Every single guy who's fought Williams has been able to land on a regular basis - though his defense is improving rapidly. Pavlik will be different than everyone Paul's faced so far becasue the size/reach advantage won't be so dramatic and because Pavlik punches straight and hard. If it goes 12, then it probably goes to Williams. If it ends by ko, Pavlik wins.
D-MARV
Pascal would OWN Pavlik in my opinion... Arthur Abraham may be able to beat Pavlik as well. You don't need to have a lot of footwork to beat Pavlik. He can be outboxed.

Get off first and move to the right...


Taylor almost beat him in the second go' round.
D-MARV
QUOTE (salvador @ Jul 6 2009, 05:23 PM) *
I'm totally on board with Williams, but IF there was a nightmare matchup for him then Pavlik might just be it.

Every single guy who's fought Williams has been able to land on a regular basis - though his defense is improving rapidly. Pavlik will be different than everyone Paul's faced so far becasue the size/reach advantage won't be so dramatic and because Pavlik punches straight and hard. If it goes 12, then it probably goes to Williams. If it ends by ko, Pavlik wins.

I don't give Pavlik enough credit for his chin. Pavlik would last the 12 rounds but I just don't see how he would have time to set up his punches. PWill is not just going to stand in front of him. Also PWill is taller than Pavlik. Pavlik punching up at his target will take some heat of his punches. Looking at the fight on paper I don't see anything other than a puncher's chance for Pavlik. If PWill's chin can hold up then Pavlik is LUNCH!
Thegreatequalizer
paul williams should not fight pavlik any time soon. he should be fighting welters and jr. welters. pavlik would probably ko him. pavlik is definitely a bad match up for williams.
JD
Williams is hittable, Pavlik will hit him.
D-MARV
QUOTE (JD @ Jul 6 2009, 06:18 PM) *
Williams is hittable, Pavlik will hit him.

Yes he Will... But How Often? ANd How does PWill take it?
JD
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jul 6 2009, 06:31 PM) *
Yes he Will... But How Often? ANd How does PWill take it?


That's the question.
D-MARV
I hope we get to find out. It would be on Helluva Fight.
Spyder
PWill is more limited at 160 than Pavlik.

Pavlik would land on PWill and send him back to the land of men with lesser chins...and lesser punches.
Keith
I'll go on record now and say If PWill fights Pavlik like he has everyone else (mauling his opponent with volume), PWill wont last 6 rounds. If PWill fights tall, moves around Pavlik, and picks his spots to land in volume, he could win a decision... but he has yet to show thats how is willing to fight. What a great matchup this is.
King Eugene
I think PWill's upper body movement is underrated. I think he will be elusive enough close range against Pavlik and get the decision. Dont get me wrong I think he would have to use a lot of footwork against Pavlik but he has shown the ability to have good side to side movement against fighters who come straight at you with straight punches (Winky Wright). So I'd give PWill a pretty good shot at this one. If his chin doesn't hold up though, this could be a horrible career move.
D-MARV
^^^^^^^^^^^^ Someone has got some sense.



"IF" this fight ever gets made I hope the odds reflect this forum.
D-MARV
QUOTE (keith @ Jul 6 2009, 07:32 PM) *
I'll go on record now and say If PWill fights Pavlik like he has everyone else (mauling his opponent with volume), PWill wont last 6 rounds.

Why?

Has Pavlik become a deadly counter puncher?

The worst thing PWill can do is stay at distance.
Keith
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jul 6 2009, 08:37 PM) *
Why?

Has Pavlik become a deadly counter puncher?

The worst thing PWill can do is stay at distance.


So your saying PWill is going to maul Pavlik with volume and all the while maintain his right foot outside Pavliks left. Because as soon as he misteps and places his lead foot inside, he will be eating straight right bombs. I wouldnt be that confident in his chin.
D-MARV
QUOTE (keith @ Jul 6 2009, 09:43 PM) *
So your saying PWill is going to maul Pavlik with volume and all the while maintain his right foot outside Pavliks left. Because as soon as he misteps and places his lead foot inside, he will be eating straight right bombs. I wouldnt be that confident in his chin.

I didn't say any of that. I said that if PWill stays on the outside he would get hurt. PWill is best on the inside. Paul would have to use constant side to side movement (which seems to be a bit underrated), flurry, and outwork Pavlik. Pavlik would be overwhelmed by Williams workrate. Other than power, what other advantage does Pavlik hold? It seems like alot of people have been betting on a Pavlik KO. I tell you what... If PWill does indeed take Pavlik's punch (Which I Believe he can) then there is absolutely NO chance of Pavlik winning. As I mentioned before, I give Pavlik a Puncher's chance. If Pwill decides to stay on the outside and drop his workrate he will make it harder on himself. PWill wins this fight going away.


Spyder
DMarv, your man-love for PWill has grown to disturbing levels.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Spyder @ Jul 6 2009, 10:00 PM) *
DMarv, your man-love for PWill has grown to disturbing levels.

haha... He's a better fighter than Pavlik.
Keith
QUOTE (damarvelous1 @ Jul 6 2009, 09:56 PM) *
Other than power, what other advantage does Pavlik hold?

Physically stronger. Proven chin at 160. But for me its that Pavlik neutralizes many advantages that PWill has over every other fighter he has faced. They basically have same height and reach. Pavlik is used to facing 6 footers. PWill is not. PWill has always been able to just continually throw punches at his opponents with very little fear of being caught with 1 punch power. Its how he fights and old habits are hard to break. He hangs his chin out to dry.

I am not a PWill hater. I love his style. What makes you think he can take Pavs punch when no one else has?
King Eugene
QUOTE (keith @ Jul 6 2009, 10:14 PM) *
Physically stronger. Proven chin at 160.

Hmmmm if Taylor was a smarter fighter he could have stopped him in two. That chin is shaky!
Keith
QUOTE (3King3 @ Jul 6 2009, 10:56 PM) *
Hmmmm if Taylor was a smarter fighter he could have stopped him in two. That chin is shaky!

Taylor was a big middleweight. Your assumption rests on PWill being a bigger puncher then Taylor which is very tough to prove. You can run all the woulda coulda shouldas you want... fact is Pavlik got up, found a way to collect himself, and fought even harder. Did you see a difference in Pavlik from the 3rd round on? It was as if he had never been knocked down. The dude is solid.
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