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Full Version: A few "What ifs" about Shane Mosley...
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The Original MrFactor
I was thinking today, what if Mosley had won a Gold Medal in 1992 and then went on to have the exact same career he had so far? Without that GOLD, Mosley had to come up a bit tougher than say, DLH. DLH had alot handed to him just because he won the GOLD. Would Mosley's name be up there with Leonards if he won GOLD and then went on to have the same career he's had?? Would he have gotten the notoriety that DLH now has?? The reason why I ask is because, looking back at his career, he's got a stellar resume. He lost a few, but he's fought a who's who of the era of the GOLDEN BOY. He missed Quartey, Trinidad and Mayweather(may still happen).

DLH won the gold in 1992, but has faltered in big fights. In fact I'd argue that if DLH won Trinidad and Mosley1 & 2, he'd be an ICON in the breath of Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods. Granted Oscar makes a ton of money each time out, but I think he'd be even bigger if he won his biggest fights. If/When Mosley beats Mayweather, I think his name should be mentioned in some great company...
Big Slim Sweet
I don't think he'd be considered a greater all-time fighter by boxing fans and scribes, but I definitely think he'd be more famous, have made a lot more money throughout his career, and be considered more on par with someone like PBF by the general public in the U.S. He'd be more well known, so in that regard his reputation as one of the best of this era would be more known too. But he still wouldn't quite rank with Leonard, Duran, etc.

DLH is another animal all together. Just the perfect storm of being the right guy at the right time.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 12 2009, 06:36 AM) *
No. The people that give fighters the honour of where they rank on all time lists are the ones that matter and the ones that love the sport. Fans and people involved in the sport that know it. Mosley having a gold medal would just be an extra, but wouldn't make his professional career any better. As a boxing fan, I wouldn't put someones career up a notch in what they did as an amateur, I would hope that most others wouldn't either. A gold medal can make someones career as a whole more impressive, but it shouldn't have a positive or negative on what they do as a professional.



No. Oscar was big because image played a big part as well, just like it does for David Beckham, Anna Kournikova, Brad Pitt etc, and he had a mexican heritage. Oscar had a combination of a few things, the gold medal, looks, american/mexican. A gold medal wouldn't have made Mosley into DLH.
I don't think Mosley is overrated or underrated. I think he is spoken about amongst most people in a correct manner. I think he is definitely in a different league than the Leonards, Durans etc, he is even a notch below Hopkins IMO. Though he is a very, very good fighter, one of the best in his era. I just don't think a gold medal would have made him a Leonard.


imo you are on the money with your statement fitz....
D-MARV
Shane would have been a bigger name in IMHO... but in terms of Hardcore fans and writers I don't think it would have made a difference. I think most people here would rank Mosley over De La hoya in terms of greatness.
The Original MrFactor
I think MOST of DLH's marketability came from his GOLD Medal. Look at the Gold Medal winners of the past...

SRL much bigger than his contemporaries, like Hearns, Hagler, Pryor and such... Why??? Gold Medal.

Ali, Frazier and Foreman... All Gold medal winners that fought each other. Thus we have the "Golden" age of heavyweights. Left out in the cold in terms of popularity are Norton and Holmes who were also great, but not nearly as popular. Heck you can make an argument for Leon Spinks getting a shot at ALI in his 10th professional fight due to his GOLD. Whatever went with the GOLD, of course LEON squandered.

Michael Spinks may have been given his arguable "gifts" over Holmes partially due to his GOLD.

A Gold Medal seems to count quite a bit in terms of marketablility, image and popularity. If Mosley had gotten one in 1992, I think he'd be greater in terms of popularity and marketability, than DLH right now because, i think he's won bigger fights, not to mention H2H...
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 13 2009, 01:58 AM) *
I'm not sure what you are asking now. First you were asking if he would be up there with the Leonards, and now asking if he would be more marketable.

Well yes, he would maybe be more marketable, and no he wouldn't be with the Leonards. A gold medal makes you more marketable, doesn't make your professional career better though.



You said," Mosley having a gold medal would just be an extra, but wouldn't make his professional career any better." I disagree. I think the GOLD medal helped tremendously in the careers of DLH, Michael Spinks, Joe Frazier. Without it they would not have gotten the same opportunities.

You also said,"A gold medal wouldn't have made Mosley into DLH."

I think he would have been bigger. DLH would have been Erik Morales or MAB without it. I concede on the Leonard argument simply because Mosley doesnt have a Hagler on his resume.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 13 2009, 02:40 AM) *
I don't think Mosley would have been bigger than DLH. Like I said, DLH had the looks, the woman loved him and he had the mexican heritage which help a lot.

What other opportunities would have Mosley have gotten? He already fought DLH who was the biggest opportunity he got and probably the biggest opportunity any boxer in the modern era would get. Maybe a fight with Trinidad? I just don't think Mosley's career would have been so different. He would have beat the same guys, and lost to the same guys and probably fought a few more.

I just don't think in anyway that Mosley could have been a bigger star than Oscar.


He would have gotten a great promotional deal with a big time promoter. I dont think DLH would be the guy he is today without the medal. i think he'd be just above Morales and Barrera and only because he can speak english. If he couldnt speak English, he's a step below Trinidad.

Mosley probably would have been pushed to fight Legendary JCC. He probably would have fought another medal winner in Pernell Whitaker. If Shane beat Whittaker and Chavez alone, he'd be bigger. Those were 2 of DLH's highest profile fights. He got them because he was well promoted. He was well promoted because he got the GOLD. Like Ali, DLH got some gift decisions possibly due to his GOLD.

Leon Spinks got an opportunity of a lifetime in his 10th pro fight because of his GOLD medal.

The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 13 2009, 06:19 AM) *
Andre Ward is another gold medalist. He is going ok, but nothing too outrageous.

You keep ignoring the point that a big part of what made DLH was his looks. Just like Beckham, Kournikova and Brad Pitt, they are all very marketable looking people and DLH was able to bring women to watch the sport as well accompanied by a lot of things. I think you are trying to make it out as if it was just the gold medal that made DLH who he is, it can be that a long with some other things.
Mosley would not have been the guy DLH is with a gold medal IMO.



LOL!! So you are saying Mosley doesnt look as good as DLH?? LOL... Without the GOLD his face doesnt get on Magazine covers to show all of the women. IMO, DLH is no more pretty than Morales, Barrera, Trinidad, Ortiz, Vargas, Mosley... Ali and Leonard were considered "pretty" too though, so i dont deny that looks plays a part. LEON SPINKS?? LOL I'm a black man and I thought Leon looked like one of the black people from the Tarzan movies of the 30's... i think that GOLD carried GOLDY more than looks...
Keith
The gold medal experience got Oscar into the limelight. The whole deal about his mother dying before the 92 games made him a great story from the beggining... but it was his looks that made him. I can personally attest to this with my mother and wife. My mother is not a boxing fan but suddenly became one when Oscar was fighting... "he is so cute, I hope boxing doesnt ruin his face" she would always say. My wife doesnt know any other boxer but would always ask me when Oscars next fight was. Its the chicks man.
WolfishPromistah
Fitz – but also look at the pics you pulled!

Oscar’s all dolled up, basically, with nice lighting, big smile and his best Backstreet Boy hairdo (even got a nice looking lady half in the background – a subtle reminder that folks should all feel “he’s adorable”).

But then you have the other two guys, MAB and Erik, all in dark shaded lighting, sweaty, and looking as if they’re at post fight press conferences. MAB kinda profiling like a super Mario brother, and then poor Erik almost looks as if someone put war paint over his brows in the photo.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (WolfishPromistah @ Jul 13 2009, 01:03 PM) *
Fitz – but also look at the pics you pulled!

Oscar’s all dolled up, basically, with nice lighting, big smile and his best Backstreet Boy hairdo (even got a nice looking lady half in the background – a subtle reminder that folks should all feel “he’s adorable”).

But then you have the other two guys, MAB and Erik, all in dark shaded lighting, sweaty, and looking as if they’re at post fight press conferences. MAB kinda profiling like a super Mario brother, and then poor Erik almost looks as if someone put war paint over his brows in the photo.



Funny... Morales looks like one of the Indians from F-Troop in that picture...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jul 12 2009, 11:54 PM) *
I think MOST of DLH's marketability came from his GOLD Medal. Look at the Gold Medal winners of the past...

SRL much bigger than his contemporaries, like Hearns, Hagler, Pryor and such... Why??? Gold Medal.

Ali, Frazier and Foreman... All Gold medal winners that fought each other. Thus we have the "Golden" age of heavyweights. Left out in the cold in terms of popularity are Norton and Holmes who were also great, but not nearly as popular. Heck you can make an argument for Leon Spinks getting a shot at ALI in his 10th professional fight due to his GOLD. Whatever went with the GOLD, of course LEON squandered.

Michael Spinks may have been given his arguable "gifts" over Holmes partially due to his GOLD.

A Gold Medal seems to count quite a bit in terms of marketablility, image and popularity. If Mosley had gotten one in 1992, I think he'd be greater in terms of popularity and marketability, than DLH right now because, i think he's won bigger fights, not to mention H2H...


some of it did come from the gold medal but as much of a hater as i like to be on hoya he was a very good solid fighter... i think the love came from him doing his thing rather you approve of who he ws fighting or not..
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