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Box in Hand
It's starting to leak all over the net now. The fight is taking an ugly turn. Anyone heard anything.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159215
iron_mike
WTF??? Now is Mosley at 140 or 142 next in line?? IF this is true?
Box in Hand
I keep getting conflicting reports but the last I heard, Pac wants that belt and if it isn't settled in the next few hours the fight is gone. He then looks at Mosely.
iron_mike
I love Pac, but I agree 100% with Cotto, even if Pac/Arum are willing to pay the 150k fee...its not a WBO 145lb belt, if Pac wants it, they must fight at 147...

But to cancel a huge fight like this over a stupid alphabet strap is ridculous..I read something about Pac would be the 1st to win 7 different belts, that's why it's such a big deal? Let's face it, Floyd is right when he says Shane isn't a huge PPV draw, and I think Cotto has a bigger fan base than Shane
JD
Nothing is getting canceled.
iron_mike
QUOTE (JD @ Aug 1 2009, 07:38 PM) *
Nothing is getting canceled.


This is confirmed??
Box in Hand
QUOTE (iron_mike @ Aug 1 2009, 06:34 PM) *
I love Pac, but I agree 100% with Cotto, even if Pac/Arum are willing to pay the 150k fee...its not a WBO 145lb belt, if Pac wants it, they must fight at 147...

But to cancel a huge fight like this over a stupid alphabet strap is ridculous..I read something about Pac would be the 1st to win 7 different belts, that's why it's such a big deal? Let's face it, Floyd is right when he says Shane isn't a huge PPV draw, and I think Cotto has a bigger fan base than Shane



That's it! You said it. They're making a fuss because they want Pac to be a 7 time champ and things are getting shaky so if anyone has better info than gossip please post. This is so freaking lame on these guys. Let's just make the fight at 147 and bang it out.
leonthegee
who cares its barely august.
STEVENSKI
The only one to suffer if it is cancelled is Cotto. Pac has options that will make him money Cotto does not.
Col Reb
I say good for Pac. He should get the chance to fight for the belt; anything less is ridiculous. We're talking about history! That being said, he should be willing to cave on the weight limit. Otherwise, he can fight one of the other WW champs or do the fight I really want to see, Pac vs Mosley at 140.
caneman
This is all but spam & nothing backs the afternoon soaps! lmao!
provo
Pac needs to stop being a little bitch! If he wants the 147 welterweight title then fight at that fukn weight!
What's next him fight shane at 140 for shanes 147 title..lol
Pacs weak! Always looking for a advantage!
MarzB
QUOTE (provo @ Aug 1 2009, 07:50 PM) *
Pac needs to stop being a little bitch! If he wants the 147 welterweight title then fight at that fukn weight!
What's next him fight shane at 140 for shanes 147 title..lol
Pacs weak! Always looking for a advantage!


Good post
D-MARV
This fight ain't getting cancelled.
leonthegee
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Aug 1 2009, 04:17 PM) *
The only one to suffer if it is cancelled is Cotto. Pac has options that will make him money Cotto does not.


cotto has options he can fight berto, mosley, and may and still come out pretty good. its not like the kids eating at burger king or hungry ear as u guys call it down under. my point is he can fight anywhere in NY or PR and still make his money.
salvador
QUOTE (provo @ Aug 1 2009, 07:50 PM) *
Pac needs to stop being a little bitch! If he wants the 147 welterweight title then fight at that fukn weight!
What's next him fight shane at 140 for shanes 147 title..lol
Pacs weak! Always looking for a advantage!


It is what it is.

Pac-Cotto should be at 147 or 140. It's obvious.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Aug 2 2009, 02:03 AM) *
cotto has options he can fight berto, mosley, and may and still come out pretty good. its not like the kids eating at burger king or hungry ear as u guys call it down under. my point is he can fight anywhere in NY or PR and still make his money.


We call BK Hungry Jacks. Don't worry though the food is just as shitty & tastes just as good at 3.00am.

If Pac & Cotto offer Shane a fight who do you think he will pick?
provo
If this fight don't get cancelled ! Pac is still a bitch all this damn crying! I don't see any of the other top fighters pulling this bullshit!
Hey maybe Mayweather should have Marquez put his 135 belt on the line for their sept 18 fight at 147 LmaO
leonthegee
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Aug 1 2009, 06:23 PM) *
We call BK Hungry Jacks. Don't worry though the food is just as shitty & tastes just as good at 3.00am.

If Pac & Cotto offer Shane a fight who do you think he will pick?

i think shane would pick manny. hes what 36 why not take the money
Byrd Man
Bottomline, if he wants the belt, fight at 147, enough of this pussy shit of getting everyone to drain themselves down as far as possible so you can fight the walking dead.

Fight at 147 or fuck the belt.
torvix2000
QUOTE (provo @ Aug 2 2009, 03:25 AM) *
Hey maybe Mayweather should have Marquez put his 135 belt on the line for their sept 18 fight at 147 LmaO


You posted this shiit again. 144 or 145 or 147 isn't within the range 131-135.
torvix2000
Dan Rafael (12:02 PM)

Not at all. As long as it's over 140 and no more than 147 the belt can be (and should be) up. If the fight was at 139 or 148, fine no belt. There are many fights in which catch weights are used within a division and the title is still at stake. This is Cotto being petty.

Sean Davidson (Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK)

Dan the man, simple question regarding the Cotto/Pac/WBO mess. If Cotto is WBO welterweight champ, and he decides to fight within the welterweight limits, then regardless of him agreeing to a catchweight, shouldn't he be obligated to defend his belt?

Dan Rafael (12:11 PM)

100 percent. At the end of the day, the title will be on the line I believe. No way is Arum going to miss out on the promotional aspect of Manny going for a record seventh title. As much as I bitch about titles and such in this specific instance, the title should be at stake because there is more meaning to it than a normal fight. Nobody every won titles in seven divisions. If Manny wins, he deserves the belt. If it was so easy to win all those titles, somebody else would have already done it.

Ty (Philly)

I'm surprised to hear you call Cotto petty, don't you think as the champ he's entitled to some stipulations going his way?

Dan Rafael (1:29 PM)

Well he got the two extra pounds he wanted when Pacquaio wanted the fight at 143. To me, if a fight is in the welterweight division and one fighter holds the tile, the title should be up, end of story.

Rags (NYC)

Does the RING Magazine title require a sanctioning fee? Could Arum pursue that "title" to make everyone happy with Cotto-PacMan?

Dan Rafael (1:57 PM)

No, there is no fee for a Ring title. Plus, the rules on how you can fight for one are very, very explicit. Cotto-Pac can't be for the title based on their rules since Mosley is ranked 1 and you can't fill a vacant title without the No. 1 fighter in the fight.

Dylan (Austin, TX)


I kind of understand Cotto's reluctance to not want to make it a title fight... I think that if it should be a title bout then there should be a max weight limit of 147, no catch weight. If you want to fight for a title, let there be no handicaps.

Dan Rafael (2:08 PM)

Here's the bottom line: If you are a champion in any division other than heavy (which has no upper limi) and you fight under that division limit you're title is at stake. Look at all the nontitle fights over the years. I can't think of a single one in which the champion fought a nontitle fight in which he weighed somewhere within the division. It's just that simple unless Cotto wants to vacate. In that case, nothing would stop the WBO from allowing Pacquiao to fight for the vacant title.

Angel (Orlando, FL)

Hey Dan! I understand what you mean by the weight limit in a certain division, but with Pacquiao demanding that Cotto not be allowed to reach the maximum weight limit in the welterweight division, then Cotto should have the right to say well then you can't fight for my title, and from what I've read, Cotto has stated he will vacate the title and Pacquiao can fight for a vacant title. No big deal, he still gets to fight for the title, but Cotto chose to give it up since he's being handicapped by not being allowed to reach the MAXIMUM weight limit in HIS WEIGHT CLASS...So Pacquiao gets to fight for a vacant title....

Dan Rafael (2:20 PM)

It doesn't matter WHY a guy isn't at the upper limit. It only matters that the fight is IN the division. This is getting old. Do you not understand English?
Fitz
Manny is getting tiring really quick. He based himself on being a work horse, he is becoming just another materialistic cunt looking for an easy way to capture a title. 147 for a title. If it's a catch weight, nothing.
Snoop
For me the whole argument that 145 is between 141-147 is horseshit. The weight division is between 141-147 NOT 141-145. Obviously a fighter can come in at 145 and would still be a welterweight, but a fighter should also be at liberty to come in at 147. I'm surprised Rafael is taking the side of Pacquiao in this case.
torvix2000
NOPE! Rafael isn't taking Manny's side.

He actually factored Pacquiao out of the equation. This thing is already between Cotto and WBO.
CreDog
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Aug 1 2009, 05:02 PM) *
It's starting to leak all over the net now. The fight is taking an ugly turn. Anyone heard anything.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159215



I heard that you are a retard.. and need to take your meds... don't be a $hit head just to get fanboys panties twisted-
Snoop
QUOTE (provo @ Aug 2 2009, 01:50 AM) *
What's next him fight shane at 140 for shanes 147 title..lol

No they'd make it at 141 so people could say it fell in the welterweight limit. rolleyes_anim.gif

This whole title fiasco is bullshit.
Snoop
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Aug 2 2009, 05:48 AM) *
NOPE! Rafael isn't taking Manny's side.

He actually factored Pacquiao out of the equation. This thing is already between Cotto and WBO.

Well he essentially is. Advocating for the fight to be for the title is synonymous with what Pacquiao wants.
torvix2000
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 2 2009, 05:45 AM) *
Manny is getting tiring really quick. He based himself on being a work horse, he is becoming just another materialistic cunt looking for an easy way to capture a title. 147 for a title. If it's a catch weight, nothing.



QUOTE (snoopnick @ Aug 2 2009, 05:51 AM) *
No they'd make it at 141 so people could say it fell in the welterweight limit. rolleyes_anim.gif

This whole title fiasco is bullshit.


C'mon, snoopnick. You're one of the respectable members of this board. Why exaggerate? Pac will fight Mosley at 145. Not 141. I think it is still criticizable.

As I've said, the thing is already between Cotto and the WBO.
torvix2000
QUOTE (snoopnick @ Aug 2 2009, 05:53 AM) *
Well he essentially is. Advocating for the fight to be for the title is synonymous with what Pacquiao wants.


It's really hard to be the organization's president. Will you allow Cotto to simply fight within the range without defending his belt?
CreDog
QUOTE (provo @ Aug 1 2009, 06:50 PM) *
Pac needs to stop being a little bitch! If he wants the 147 welterweight title then fight at that fukn weight!
What's next him fight shane at 140 for shanes 147 title..lol
Pacs weak! Always looking for a advantage!


Hey Stupid... Provo huh.... Are you a shit for brain mormon? LOL.. in regards for you stating that Pac is looking for an ad-- you realize that his natural weight is Super feather right?? Don't be stupid-- who gives a fuck about a title- PAC's waaaaaaaaaaaay smaller than Cotto---- is about getting as close to = as possible.


Respond bitch, I will destroy your ass===
torvix2000
QUOTE (CreDog @ Aug 2 2009, 05:58 AM) *
Hey Stupid... Provo huh.... Are you a shit for brain mormon? LOL.. in regards for you stating that Pac is looking for an ad-- you realize that his natural weight is Super feather right?? Don't be stupid-- who gives a fuck about a title- PAC's waaaaaaaaaaaay smaller than Cotto---- is about getting as close to = as possible.


Respond bitch, I will destroy your ass===


Cool down. This isn't between Cotto and Pacquiao anymore. This is between Cotto and the WBO. If Cotto, wants to fight within the welterweight range regardless of who his opponent is, then he must defend his belt or vacate it.
Fitz
The welter weight limit is between 140-147 not 140-145. The weight classes have restrictions, and this idiot wants restrictions within restrictions and still fight for a title.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (provo @ Aug 2 2009, 03:25 AM) *
If this fight don't get cancelled ! Pac is still a bitch all this damn crying! I don't see any of the other top fighters pulling this bullshit!
Hey maybe Mayweather should have Marquez put his 135 belt on the line for their sept 18 fight at 147 LmaO


It is amazing how little intelligence you display with each & every post you make.

The rules are if a fight is over the weight limit for a title then that title cannot be fought for. That is boxing 101.

If a fight is made under the weight limit for the title it can still be a world title fight. It may be a bitch move but it is within the rules.
torvix2000
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 2 2009, 06:06 AM) *
The welter weight limit is between 140-147 not 140-145. The weight classes have restrictions, and this idiot wants restrictions within restrictions and still fight for a title.


Range, maybe?

The weight classes are only there for classification.

As I've said, this isn't between Cotto and Pacquiao. This is between Cotto and the WBO. Cotto fights a bum and the WBO will still get pissed if he doesn't want to defend his title.
Snoop
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Aug 2 2009, 05:54 AM) *
C'mon, snoopnick. You're one of the respectable members of this board. Why exaggerate? Pac will fight Mosley at 145. Not 141. I think it is still criticizable.

Thanks bro. I appreciate that. But don't be so sure. They originally wanted Cotto at 143 and if Mosley just dances on in saying, "140!", why wouldn't they take it?
Snoop
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Aug 2 2009, 05:56 AM) *
It's really hard to be the organization's president. Will you allow Cotto to simply fight within the range without defending his belt?

Given this specific circumstance, yes I would allow Cotto to fight without the title on the line. Weighing in at 147 is a RIGHT a fighter has competing in the welterweight division. A belt shouldn't be on the line if the champion has to handicap himself.
torvix2000
What you guys are proposing is to make new rules with regards to boxing org's handling of the matters. Let's hear them out. Or post a new thread.
Fitz
Manny is a vulture. Trying to capitalise on opponents by not letting them get to 100% before the fight starts.
torvix2000
QUOTE (snoopnick @ Aug 2 2009, 06:15 AM) *
Given this specific circumstance, yes I would allow Cotto to fight without the title on the line. Weighing in at 147 is a RIGHT a fighter has competing in the welterweight division. A belt shouldn't be on the line if the champion has to handicap himself.


Your decision will have a lot of implications. Being the organization's president you know you have to make money. It's greedy stuff. But that's why you're not the president. And if you were, you'd do the same thing - ask for sanctioning fees. It's just the way things are.

The other course of actions would be to make new rules. And all the other orgs would have to sync.
torvix2000
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 2 2009, 06:16 AM) *
Manny is a vulture. Trying to capitalise on opponents by not letting them get to 100% before the fight starts.


no2.gif
Snoop
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 2 2009, 06:16 AM) *
Manny is a vulture. Trying to capitalise on opponents by not letting them get to 100% before the fight starts.

Sadly, he's starting to turn into one. I wish he would either fight Cotto at 147 or fight others at 140. You know he's just trying to get that "First fighter to even win titles in 7 weight classes" so that ten years from now people will only be left with that and forget all the bullshit that went on behind the scenes.
Keith
Gosh, I'm tired of this. It makes me want to watch mma where the boss makes the fights.
Snoop
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Aug 2 2009, 06:18 AM) *
Your decision will have a lot of implications. Being the organization's president you know you have to make money. It's greedy stuff. But that's why you're not the president. And if you were, you'd do the same thing - ask for sanctioning fees. It's just the way things are.

The other course of actions would be to make new rules. And all the other orgs would have to sync.

Then we'd be in agreement that for the WBO to side with Pacquiao, it would be out of greed and the motivation to make money, rather than doing what's fair?
torvix2000
LOL! After another 1 month of negotiation, this will be for a title fight. And people will realize that Arum, Pac, and Cotto simply played around Floyd-Marquez fight which is in trouble again. I heard there is another possibility of it being cancelled.
Fitz
To be honest, I wouldn't give a shit if Manny said "I'm not fighting at 147, I'm not big enough"...or what ever. He is smaller, I also could live with them fighting at a catch weight with no title on the line. I probably could have lived with it if Cotto himself just put the title on the line. But to me, Cotto is within his right to have the luxury to defend a title at the standard weight range. What is annoying is Pacquiao is acting similar to Mayweather. He wants to restrict fighters, but still wants all the same benefits. He is acting like a snake right. Fight at 140, or fight at 147 for titles. Don't ask for demands that suit you but still want all the same benefits.
torvix2000
QUOTE (snoopnick @ Aug 2 2009, 06:22 AM) *
Then we'd be in agreement that for the WBO to side with Pacquiao, it would be out of greed and the motivation to make money, rather than doing what's fair?


Nope. All org's are greedy. I don't think they're greedy simply because of this one reason. Catchweights happen and those who defended their belts under catchweight conditions knew at before hand that they have to defend their titles.

And yes, the WBO is siding with Pacquiao because Pacquiao is asking for the belt. Which is not in contradiction to the rules.

As I've said, we need more rules to handle this type of situations? Or as Dan Rafael said, catchweight title fights happened in the past. And the only fighter making a fuss out of it is Cotto.
Fitz
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Aug 2 2009, 03:19 PM) *
no2.gif


What's with the shake? Are you suggesting that Pacquiao demanding Cotto not being able to weigh in at 147 is not a restriction?
torvix2000
QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 2 2009, 06:28 AM) *
To be honest, I wouldn't give a shit if Manny said "I'm not fighting at 147, I'm not big enough"...or what ever. He is smaller, I also could live with them fighting at a catch weight with no title on the line. I probably could have lived with it if Cotto himself just put the title on the line. But to me, Cotto is within his right to have the luxury to defend a title at the standard weight range. What is annoying is Pacquiao is acting similar to Mayweather. He wants to restrict fighters, but still wants all the same benefits. He is acting like a snake right. Fight at 140, or fight at 147 for titles. Don't ask for demands that suit you but still want all the same benefits.


Yes, Cotto has the right to defend his title at normal weight range. He also has the right to refuse any demand to defend his title at any catchweight. The boxing organizations gave him those rights.

At the end of the day, the WBO and Cotto will still have the last say.
Snoop
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Aug 2 2009, 06:29 AM) *
Nope. All org's are greedy. I don't think they're greedy simply because of this one reason. Catchweights happen and those who defended their belts under catchweight conditions knew at before hand that they have to defend their titles.

And yes, the WBO is siding with Pacquiao because Pacquiao is asking for the belt. Which is not in contradiction to the rules.

As I've said, we need more rules to handle this type of situations? Or as Dan Rafael said, catchweight title fights happened in the past. And the only fighter making a fuss out of it is Cotto.

But my question was if you agree that WBO is doing this out of greed rather than what makes fair and logical sense? I agree with Fitz. Cotto may be the only one making a fuss out of it, but why shouldn't he? It's like a girl getting gangraped by a bunch of guys and saying, "Shit, she's the only one making a fuss out of it. Therefore it's not wrong." I think he's within his rights to do so.
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