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Byrd Man
What is it going to take for the Boxing fans to finally say ENOUGH when it comes to these sanctioning organizations? The WBO, WBA, WBC, IBF and whatever the other one is, are consistently fucking up boxing for their own monetary gain. And the fans sit back and allow it. Aside from bitching on message boards, what has EVER been done about it?

boycott fights? Not likely. People will still go. They'll swallow the bad taste in their mouths and continue to suck off the Alphabets by paying for the payper views, for the pricey seats, for all of that.

Seriously. What can we do? With this whole "we'll manufacture a belt just for Pacman to win his 7th title" bullshit going on, are we there yet? Are we at the point where people will finally say enough is enough? And this doesn't have shit to do with Pacman (at least not completely) but more of the arrogance and ballsiness of the organizations to say "yeah we get a lot of criticism for all our "champion" belts, but fuck it, let's do it again. Let's see how far we can push it".

What can be done? How can the fans of Boxing officially do something to eradicate these soulless motherfuckers that are ruining our sport that we love?

I just went on ESPN's front page and they have UFC bullshit on there. How often do they put Boxing on the front page? MAYBE twice a year? How many times has there been big boxing news, but it's not even in the little headline feed thing on their front page, you have to go to the actual boxing page to see what's going on?

And they're the biggest sports site on the internet. Say what you will about your opinions on ESPN, but bottom line is they are in fact a huge entity and their lack of giving a shit about Boxing speaks volumes on just where it is in the rankings of sports.

No wonder people shit on Boxing all the time.

Reminds me of that quote from Chris Rock about rap music. "I love rap music. It's hard to defend that shit though".

I love Boxing. But it's growing increasingly difficult to justify and defend the bullshit that goes on. And we allow it.

I'd love to know what people feel could be done to make a big enough statement to finally get shit changed. Cause nothing is working now apparantly.
caneman
I been sick of the ABC's, judging, promoters & many other things about boxing....truth is none of those thing are why I watch boxing & I could care less about belts/abc's of the world!
Mean Mister Mustard
The Ring and ESPN started something good by disowning them but the progress is slow. If the alphabet organizatiztions go out of business it will slowly, it will not be done overnight.


I didn't answer your question about what more can be done about it because I don't have any answers. All I can say is that there are people, like me, who don't even recognize them. If you ask me who holds the WBA belt at 175 I wouldn't be able to tell you. The only fighter who I can tell you that has a belt is Cotto and that is only because of the controversy of the Pacquiao catchweight debacle.
Byrd Man
yeah I don't know either. And I think the people who say "I don't care, I just watch the fights, I don't care about the belts" that's ignoring the fact that the reason that MANY MANY people don't like Boxing, or don't trust boxing, or go to UFC/MMA instead of boxing do so because of that very reason.

You may not have a problem with it, caneman, but many people do, and if you're a boxing fan which I know you are, you should care about it, because this is destroying Boxing.

torvix2000
It's not about the boxing organizations. It's about the promoters. They are the real culprit.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (Byrd Man @ Aug 7 2009, 09:11 PM) *
yeah I don't know either. And I think the people who say "I don't care, I just watch the fights, I don't care about the belts" that's ignoring the fact that the reason that MANY MANY people don't like Boxing, or don't trust boxing, or go to UFC/MMA instead of boxing do so because of that very reason.

You may not have a problem with it, caneman, but many people do, and if you're a boxing fan which I know you are, you should care about it, because this is destroying Boxing.


I suspect that most people, not all but most, that say "I don't care about the politics, I just watch the fights" are well within their right to say and do so. They are able to do so because they don't read the articles about how sneaky these organizations are, how they suck out the money off of fighters and prevent certain fights from getting made. If they did read them I doubt they would say "I don't care". Or maybe they would say that, maybe they don't really care what boxers have to go through, they just want to pay and see a good fight which is their right. But to say that the alphabet cartels are doing no wrong would be lie.

Jack 1000
However,

Recall as I have written before, if the WBA, WBC, IBF, and WBO all died overnight, boxing would have to come up with another worldwide structure to represent who is and who is not a champion. I would still fear a one world, one champions system because that would open the door to a promoter monopoly where let's say Don King or Bob Arum would come in and the belt, the ratings, the fighters, would be controlled by him. King tried that shit in the mid 70's, and it was so bad. Ring rating were being bribed by King and his company to get his guys matches in ABC failed heavyweight tournament. When Scott Leduex lost a bullshit decision to King fighter, John Broudoux, Ledeux prompted a grand jury investigation which led to ABC canceling all remaining telecast. To quote, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

However, this "Diamond Belt" is ridiculous. The WBC has still done some very good things for boxers and boxing by creating an international awayness of fighters and fighter safety at the global level. No Ring Magazine can do that because they don't have the type of promotional power to make the fights happen. You can make opinion ratings, but unfortunately, you sometimes have to strip fighters who don't play by the rules.

A better question, many have bitched about the practices of the alphabet federations for over 45 years. But why hasn't a better system been accepted throughout the world? What else is there? Ring Magazine is often biased in their own rights, now catering to Golden Boy Promotions who have monetary trust in the company. Can this get just as bad as what King did in the 70's? Can we really trust Ring under Oscar Delahoya's company? Or are their ratings little more than just another sanctioning body of public opinion?

The WBC will probably gage the response to this Diamond Belt thing. I think if this goes through with the Pacquiao-Cotto winner and the winner says "I don't think the Diamond belt is meaningful" and trashes it on TV getting other WBC fighters to follow suit, they might kill the idea. The sanctioning bodies still do not realize that world title belts should only be for the most important fights. If the diamond belt is won at a catch-weight, I don't think it is legit. Keep the main titles. But Super Champion belts (WBA), Champion Emeritus ("in recess") (WBC) and "Diamond Belts" should go. You all should e-mail HBO and Showtime petitioning that neither Michael Buffer or Jimmy Lennon Jr. mention any WBC Diamond Belts on the air. The negative media reaction could force the WBC to reexamine this, especially if the boxers themselves don't want the new belts.

Jack
Col Reb
I hope the day comes when Congress gets involved and puts an end to the madness of the boxing cartel.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 7 2009, 10:59 PM) *
However,

Recall as I have written before, if the WBA, WBC, IBF, and WBO all died overnight, boxing would have to come up with another worldwide structure to represent who is and who is not a champion. I would still fear a one world, one champions system because that would open the door to a promoter monopoly where let's say Don King or Bob Arum would come in and the belt, the ratings, the fighters, would be controlled by him. King tried that shit in the mid 70's, and it was so bad. Ring rating were being bribed by King and his company to get his guys matches in ABC failed heavyweight tournament. When Scott Leduex lost a bullshit decision to King fighter, John Broudoux, Ledeux prompted a grand jury investigation which led to ABC canceling all remaining telecast. To quote, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

However, this "Diamond Belt" is ridiculous. The WBC has still done some very good things for boxers and boxing by creating an international awayness of fighters and fighter safety at the global level. No Ring Magazine can do that because they don't have the type of promotional power to make the fights happen. You can make opinion ratings, but unfortunately, you sometimes have to strip fighters who don't play by the rules.

A better question, many have bitched about the practices of the alphabet federations for over 45 years. But why hasn't a better system been accepted throughout the world? What else is there? Ring Magazine is often biased in their own rights, now catering to Golden Boy Promotions who have monetary trust in the company. Can this get just as bad as what King did in the 70's? Can we really trust Ring under Oscar Delahoya's company? Or are their ratings little more than just another sanctioning body of public opinion?

The WBC will probably gage the response to this Diamond Belt thing. I think if this goes through with the Pacquiao-Cotto winner and the winner says "I don't think the Diamond belt is meaningful" and trashes it on TV getting other WBC fighters to follow suit, they might kill the idea. The sanctioning bodies still do not realize that world title belts should only be for the most important fights. If the diamond belt is won at a catch-weight, I don't think it is legit. Keep the main titles. But Super Champion belts (WBA), Champion Emeritus ("in recess") (WBC) and "Diamond Belts" should go. You all should e-mail HBO and Showtime petitioning that neither Michael Buffer or Jimmy Lennon Jr. mention any WBC Diamond Belts on the air. The negative media reaction could force the WBC to reexamine this, especially if the boxers themselves don't want the new belts.

Jack


The Ring 1970's debacle happenned 30 years ago under a different andministration. Still, a similar event could happen, especially with GB owning the magazine, although I haven't seen foul play on their part.

It's true that if the 3 major organizations fell, for one reason or another, you can bet your sweet potatoes that either the WBO, IBO or any other A, C and O would aim to take their place. Unfortunatley this question is something that is beyond me.
Romulus9
This sounds completely insane, but I have more respect for the IBO than any of the other idiot organizations.

* Computerized rankings, whether people like the results or not

* No ridiculous mandatory defenses

* A president who has seen pretty much every ridiculous in and out of boxing (Ed Levine) and has taken steps to get away from it.

* A willingness to recognize the great fighters who may not hold their organization's belt. Often times their champion is listed LOWER in their ratings than champions of other organizations, or top flight contenders.

* A very concise listing of approved officials (referees and judges) who they know are worthwhile



I love those guys. The rest of them can suck it.

I like the recognition of the Ring champions and all but even that is starting to slide a bit.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Col Reb @ Aug 7 2009, 10:22 PM) *
I hope the day comes when Congress gets involved and puts an end to the madness of the boxing cartel.


Sadly,

Congress can't manage itself now, and with the economy as it is now, I am certain that boxing regulation is the last thing on their agenda. I don't want the feds involved in boxing at all. True story: I once wrote to Senator McCain when he was working on that Boxing Reform Bill about 1996, some time around that, and he responded back to me with the proposed legislation. Most of it was and already has been approved by the ABC (Association of Boxing Commissions.) But than I saw his planned commissioners list, and I could only recognize one member on his board. In other words, they were all political hacks will almost no boxing experience. Boxing cannot use federal regulation, because over time it would take away state regulation. This is what Teddy Atlas fails to comprehend with his "national commission." tirades.

You cannot national commission an international sport. What should be done is set a precedent model for one of the top boxing state jurisdictions and follow their regulations. Years ago, everyone followed what New York was doing. Today its Nevada. Study what Nevada is doing and use that as a model for your state's regulation to learn by positive example. The feds don't have the experience to get involved in this.

In all honesty, most of the very best commission type people whom I would want on a regulatory board are right on this very board! I mean, who knows the game better than us?

Jack
JLUVBABY
I think the keyword here is "greed"... i think it could be as easy as the promoters not protecting fighters and making the fights people want to see and putting on solid fight cards to back those fights people want to see... boxing is a great sport but these greedy promoters are turning the sport to shit. you can make the argument that they have turned the sport to shit already... also it would help for some of these spoiled fighters to take less money and fight on the nbc's and cbs's and foxes and abc channels... to me its absolutely dumb that they dont fight on free t.v anymore and it all comes down to the money... take short money now and once the public knows you cash in... its a no brainer but then again that goes back to the greedy promoters...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 7 2009, 11:33 PM) *
In all honesty, most of the very best commission type people whom I would want on a regulatory board are right on this very board! I mean, who knows the game better than us?

Jack


i agree with this jack.. thing is until we as a group (the die hard fans) step out the shadows of just talking about it we will watch the sport continue to drown and get sucked up by mma... there is no reason ufc should be smashing boxing in ppv ratings etc... but fact is they make the fights that the public is intrigued by and the public dont have to wait for purse settlements or other kinds of b.s that can stall a fight... and the main event in the ufc ppvs are usually backed by a very solid undercard.. i hate to say it but its true.. im not gonna hate on what they are doing, their fighters dont get paid what they should for the risk they take i dont believe but the formula is a very proven one when it comes to generating interest in the sport and that is a sport that is an infant compared to the rich royal history of boxing...

anyway back to subject.. it has always been my thought that we the hard core fans should be gunning for positions such as fight judges.. refs... etc... even athletic commisioners.. if the sport is to continue to prosper it will need people that love it running it... not outsiders...
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (Col Reb @ Aug 7 2009, 11:22 PM) *
I hope the day comes when Congress gets involved and puts an end to the madness of the boxing cartel.

Maybe they should take care of unemployment, health care and a couple of wars first. I don't want the government getting involved with boxing, they tend to fuck things up.

To be honest, I like the dirty things about boxing. It gives the sport so much more flavor than the others.
torvix2000
Maybe we should also bring back 15-round fights. Ah, those early days when someone has to get knocked out even if it took 50 rounds. Bare knuckles. Maybe we should also bring back same day weigh in.

Or maybe boxing is really becoming extinct and we're just complaining for a dying specie.

Maybe we should save those afghans first, or Africa first.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Aug 8 2009, 10:35 AM) *
Maybe they should take care of unemployment, health care and a couple of wars first. I don't want the government getting involved with boxing, they tend to fuck things up.

To be honest, I like the dirty things about boxing. It gives the sport so much more flavor than the others.


As much as I hate to say it, it is true. It's like going to a play and seeing one of the actors unexpectedly shit his pants.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Aug 8 2009, 12:01 AM) *
I think the keyword here is "greed"... i think it could be as easy as the promoters not protecting fighters and making the fights people want to see and putting on solid fight cards to back those fights people want to see... boxing is a great sport but these greedy promoters are turning the sport to shit. you can make the argument that they have turned the sport to shit already... also it would help for some of these spoiled fighters to take less money and fight on the nbc's and cbs's and foxes and abc channels... to me its absolutely dumb that they dont fight on free t.v anymore and it all comes down to the money... take short money now and once the public knows you cash in... its a no brainer but then again that goes back to the greedy promoters...


And the TV networks are just as bad as the promoters. Long term contracts for fighters and long term commitments to TV networks should be abolished. You contract for a fight to fight deal and the networks look for the strategies to produce the best fights. I mean, why the fuck should an HBO or Showtime fighter be restricted from a unification fight or some other big money match just because he fights on the "other" network? The greed by the networks boxes in the fighters to not seek out the best opponents and matches. Shit, don't look at a fighter as "an HBO fighter" or "a Showtime fighter." Just be a fighter who seeks out the best competition and whatever network puts up the most money in a bid-off, gets that fighter's fight.

Than the networks repeat the process. Get other networks involved too, not just HBO and Showtime. Spike TV, Verses, Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, ESPN, locals. Right now, fighters are too tied down to not only one promoter, but one network as well. That's not good for boxers or boxing. PPV doesn't work as well as in the past. With the terrible economy, who needs it when their are other options available?

Jack
Mean Mister Mustard
I have a question. MMA is becoming more and more popular. There's been rumors flying around that network television will be bringing it back and that even HBO might get in on the action. Whether or not that happens, if MMA keeps on becoming more known, is there a chance that it could help boxing?

Here's what I mean. In recent years, the argument for boxing's demise in popularity and lack of coverage by the mainstream was that it was too violent, people misunderstood it as noting but a bunch of guys clubbing each other and then getting robbed by sleazy promoters. The kind of thing you see in the movies. I mean think about it, there are only two things from boxing that make it into the mainstream media 1- the big mega fights and 2- The controversies like fighters dying, riots or incredible fouls. This type of coverage has given the non-boxing fan the perception that the sport is populated by low lives.

MMA however, while not yet having the same type of political dilemmas as boxing, is seen as being more brutal than boxing because of its use of elbows, kicks, ground and pound and more barbaric looking knockouts due to the thinner gloves. Of course, boxing may prove to be more damaging to a fighter's health in the long term but the point is that if MMA becomes mainstream, eventually it will become accpeted. Sooner or later the discussion of it being too violent will stop and it will become just another sport. Will that then, make boxing seem less barbaric in comparison and thus be welcomed back with open arms? Will the networks realize that "Hey, people love fighting, what else can we show them? Karate? Tae Kwon Do? Nah, the rules make it too boring. I know, how about boxing?"
King Eugene
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Aug 9 2009, 10:40 AM) *
I have a question. MMA is becoming more and more popular. There's been rumors flying around that network television will be bringing it back and that even HBO might get in on the action. Whether or not that happens, if MMA keeps on becoming more known, is there a chance that it could help boxing?

Here's what I mean. In recent years, the argument for boxing's demise in popularity and lack of coverage by the mainstream was that it was too violent, people misunderstood it as noting but a bunch of guys clubbing each other and then getting robbed by sleazy promoters. The kind of thing you see in the movies. I mean think about it, there are only two things from boxing that make it into the mainstream media 1- the big mega fights and 2- The controversies like fighters dying, riots or incredible fouls. This type of coverage has given the non-boxing fan the perception that the sport is populated by low lives.

MMA however, while not yet having the same type of political dilemmas as boxing, is seen as being more brutal than boxing because of its use of elbows, kicks, ground and pound and more barbaric looking knockouts due to the thinner gloves. Of course, boxing may prove to be more damaging to a fighter's health in the long term but the point is that if MMA becomes mainstream, eventually it will become accpeted. Sooner or later the discussion of it being too violent will stop and it will become just another sport. Will that then, make boxing seem less barbaric in comparison and thus be welcomed back with open arms? Will the networks realize that "Hey, people love fighting, what else can we show them? Karate? Tae Kwon Do? Nah, the rules make it too boring. I know, how about boxing?"

Sounds logical but the only thing about it is it would take a long time before people started thinking that way.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 9 2009, 02:11 AM) *
And the TV networks are just as bad as the promoters. Long term contracts for fighters and long term commitments to TV networks should be abolished. You contract for a fight to fight deal and the networks look for the strategies to produce the best fights. I mean, why the fuck should an HBO or Showtime fighter be restricted from a unification fight or some other big money match just because he fights on the "other" network? The greed by the networks boxes in the fighters to not seek out the best opponents and matches. Shit, don't look at a fighter as "an HBO fighter" or "a Showtime fighter." Just be a fighter who seeks out the best competition and whatever network puts up the most money in a bid-off, gets that fighter's fight.

Than the networks repeat the process. Get other networks involved too, not just HBO and Showtime. Spike TV, Verses, Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, ESPN, locals. Right now, fighters are too tied down to not only one promoter, but one network as well. That's not good for boxers or boxing. PPV doesn't work as well as in the past. With the terrible economy, who needs it when their are other options available?

Jack


i agree 110%... there is more to whats wrong with boxing than the promoters.. they are just a place where is started... really you could start at a lot of points and work your way up from there...
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Aug 11 2009, 04:12 AM) *
i agree 110%... there is more to whats wrong with boxing than the promoters.. they are just a place where is started... really you could start at a lot of points and work your way up from there...


Lets not forget the fighters themselves. The greed we see from them recently is ridiculous. Half the time when talk of two fighters coming together starts, one or other starts this bullshit about who is a draw and who isnt. Its fucking obscene.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Aug 11 2009, 12:24 PM) *
Lets not forget the fighters themselves. The greed we see from them recently is ridiculous. Half the time when talk of two fighters coming together starts, one or other starts this bullshit about who is a draw and who isnt. Its fucking obscene.


agreed...
mrwigi
i wuld have to agree that it isnt the reason i watch it, but it does piss me off. i will say i am glad to see pavlik fight pwill, but still, the boxers, as well as the promoters need to step up. the best need to fight the best, and if a sanctioning body is involved let ranking be legit, instead of "placing" fighters. almost everyone is to blame, including us the fans, but i dont see anything changing anytime soon.
torvix2000
Nah, like JLUVBABY said, boxing ain't dying. There are just peaks and lows.

What boxing needs are fighters who are the reincarnations of good and evil. Gifted fighters knocking out everyone in their path.

Arum is greedy. Pac is a bitch. Cotto is gay. And still they are having the support of casual fans. MGM is getting booked like crazy for the Nov. fight. Those high priced rooms are the only ones available.

We hardcore fans are shunning those casual fans like they were stupid and we dont need them. Well we need their support.

Accept that.
pacco_diablo
QUOTE (Byrd Man @ Aug 7 2009, 08:22 PM) *
What is it going to take for the Boxing fans to finally say ENOUGH when it comes to these sanctioning organizations? The WBO, WBA, WBC, IBF and whatever the other one is, are consistently fucking up boxing for their own monetary gain. And the fans sit back and allow it. Aside from bitching on message boards, what has EVER been done about it?

boycott fights? Not likely. People will still go. They'll swallow the bad taste in their mouths and continue to suck off the Alphabets by paying for the payper views, for the pricey seats, for all of that.

Seriously. What can we do? With this whole "we'll manufacture a belt just for Pacman to win his 7th title" bullshit going on, are we there yet? Are we at the point where people will finally say enough is enough? And this doesn't have shit to do with Pacman (at least not completely) but more of the arrogance and ballsiness of the organizations to say "yeah we get a lot of criticism for all our "champion" belts, but fuck it, let's do it again. Let's see how far we can push it".

What can be done? How can the fans of Boxing officially do something to eradicate these soulless motherfuckers that are ruining our sport that we love?

I just went on ESPN's front page and they have UFC bullshit on there. How often do they put Boxing on the front page? MAYBE twice a year? How many times has there been big boxing news, but it's not even in the little headline feed thing on their front page, you have to go to the actual boxing page to see what's going on?

And they're the biggest sports site on the internet. Say what you will about your opinions on ESPN, but bottom line is they are in fact a huge entity and their lack of giving a shit about Boxing speaks volumes on just where it is in the rankings of sports.

No wonder people shit on Boxing all the time.

Reminds me of that quote from Chris Rock about rap music. "I love rap music. It's hard to defend that shit though".

I love Boxing. But it's growing increasingly difficult to justify and defend the bullshit that goes on. And we allow it.

I'd love to know what people feel could be done to make a big enough statement to finally get shit changed. Cause nothing is working now apparantly.


One of the biggest problems, outside of what you mentioned, is the lack of promotion for boxing. That's why MMA has taken off. They promote the hell out of the sport. If it wasnt for HBO and Showtime the sport would have no voice. It's mainly HBO's 24/7 and Countdown that give us any kind of inside to the sport. Sites like fighthype also do an excellent job but this is more for the established fans. If these sanctioning bodies would come together and at least promote the sport, with some orignal programming like a 24/7, then they could possibly save the sport in comparrison to MMA.
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