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darroy
why is bernard hopkins recognized as the top light heavyweight in the world when he's only defeated one full fledged light heavyweight in his career? look at his 4 fights at light heavyweight and antonio tarver is the only true lhvy weight hopkins has defeated. he lost to calzaghe coming up from super middle adn his other two light heavyweight victories came against middleweights (winky and pavlik). i believe chad dawson or glen johnson have earned the right to be called the number one ranked light heavyweight in the sport over hopkins because dawson and johnson have faced more quality light heavyweight opposition than hopkins has. beating up on middleweights makes you the best middleweight in the world not light heavyweight!
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (darroy @ Sep 6 2009, 05:40 PM) *
why is bernard hopkins recognized as the top light heavyweight in the world when he's only defeated one full fledged light heavyweight in his career? look at his 4 fights at light heavyweight and antonio tarver is the only true lhvy weight hopkins has defeated. he lost to calzaghe coming up from super middle adn his other two light heavyweight victories came against middleweights (winky and pavlik). i believe chad dawson or glen johnson have earned the right to be called the number one ranked light heavyweight in the sport over hopkins because dawson and johnson have faced more quality light heavyweight opposition than hopkins has. beating up on middleweights makes you the best middleweight in the world not light heavyweight!


im sure most wont agree but thats a valid point you make...
torvix2000
Of Course! He's Hopkins!
King Eugene
Politics!
The Original MrFactor
This is a great post! Well thought out.
Fitz
I wasn't aware Hopkins was considered the best light heavy. That was only the case when he beat Tarver. That recognition should have been lost after the Calzaghe fight.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Coz Golden Boy own everything?

I'm not sure I think of Nard as any particular weight class these days. More just a guy who picks off big fights where he can get 'em.
salvador
Hopkins knows he's not number 1 at lhw - that spot belongs to Dawson.

Hopkins is clearly avoiding Dawson because Dawson is young, strong, has a decent chin, and throws punches in combinations. Hopkins knows he'd lose a decision and wants no part of it. Hopkins is waiting for one last payday against Roy.
KookedKrack
because the inmates(golden boy) run the asylum, which i used to think would be a good thing
Warlord
QUOTE (KookedKrack @ Sep 7 2009, 09:11 AM) *
because the inmates(golden boy) run the asylum, which i used to think would be a good thing

Haha. It's never a good thing. That's why inmates are inmates. 'Cause they can't run shit.

China's a perfect example of inmates running shit. A bunch of fucking hick farmers putting on the big britches but lacking the basic fundamentals (in more ways than one) that it takes to fill out those britches.
Method
QUOTE (salvador @ Sep 7 2009, 08:59 AM) *
Hopkins knows he's not number 1 at lhw - that spot belongs to Dawson.

Hopkins is clearly avoiding Dawson because Dawson is young, strong, has a decent chin, and throws punches in combinations. Hopkins knows he'd lose a decision and wants no part of it. Hopkins is waiting for one last payday against Roy.

Seems to me Dawson has to avenge a loss he SHOULD have received at the hands of Glenn Johnson before anyone can talk about Hopkins running from Chad Dawson. That shit is kinda funny.
salvador
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 7 2009, 01:19 PM) *
Seems to me Dawson has to avenge a loss he SHOULD have received at the hands of Glenn Johnson before anyone can talk about Hopkins running from Chad Dawson. That shit is kinda funny.


Meth,

I like Hopkins almost half as much as you do, but the truth is the truth. Hopkins-Dawson is the most natural fight out there at 175 and yet nobody takes it seriously as a possibility for a reason. That reason, I assume, is because Hopkins knows that he's not going to knock Dawson out and because he knows that Dawson has much more stamina and throws punches in combos - which would virtually guarantee a Hopkins loss.

And I agree that Dawson should have given Johnson an immediate rematch.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (salvador @ Sep 7 2009, 01:31 PM) *
Meth,

I like Hopkins almost half as much as you do, but the truth is the truth. Hopkins-Dawson is the most natural fight out there at 175 and yet nobody takes it seriously as a possibility for a reason. That reason, I assume, is because Hopkins knows that he's not going to knock Dawson out and because he knows that Dawson has much more stamina and throws punches in combos - which would virtually guarantee a Hopkins loss.

And I agree that Dawson should have given Johnson an immediate rematch.


I don't think he has that much more stamina than old man Hopkins. While Hopkins has to resort to clinches and little lulls in the action to rest, Dawson too has shown that he's no whirlwind. Against Johnson and Tarver, 2 guys that absorbed his best shots without going down, he had to take rounds off. Now, every fighter takes rounds off but while some fighters simply reduce their offense a bit in an effort to not make it known to his opponent, Dawson clearly shows when he's resting. He either stops throwing punches or covers up and goes chest to chest while he blocks punches. Dawson does have an edge in stamina but he's not Calzaghe.

salvador
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Sep 7 2009, 02:39 PM) *
I don't think he has that much more stamina than old man Hopkins. While Hopkins has to resort to clinches and little lulls in the action to rest, Dawson too has shown that he's no whirlwind. Against Johnson and Tarver, 2 guys that absorbed his best shots without going down, he had to take rounds off. Now, every fighter takes rounds off but while some fighters simply reduce their offense a bit in an effort to not make it known to his opponent, Dawson clearly shows when he's resting. He either stops throwing punches or covers up and goes chest to chest while he blocks punches. Dawson does have an edge in stamina but he's not Calzaghe.


Every fight Hopkins has lost has been a result of Hopkins having to pace himself by throwing 30 punches a round. Just based on sheer volume of punches alone Dawson would take it. And Hopkins' short right hand counter wouldn't be nearly as effective against a guy who throws solid 3-5 punch combinations. Why else wouldn't the fight have happened yet? Surely Dawson would do just about anything for the opportunity, and you know HBO would love to see it. Hopkins knows this would be a terrible matchup for him.

It's hard to compare Calzaghe's endurance with Dawson's because Dawson puts so much more energy into his punches.
darroy
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 6 2009, 11:47 PM) *
I wasn't aware Hopkins was considered the best light heavy. That was only the case when he beat Tarver. That recognition should have been lost after the Calzaghe fight.




yeah, he's ranked number 1 at light heavy by ring magazine (suprise, suprise) and on every boxing website i visit. he's great don't get me wrong, but i don't feel he's done anything in the THREE YEARS against actual light heavies since he defeated tarver to warrant still being rcognized numero uno in the division when dawson has in those three years taken on harding, tarver twice, g johnson, and adamek. and just who hasn't glen johnson fought in the light heavy weight division lol! just something for us fight fans to ponder.
darroy
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Sep 6 2009, 11:44 PM) *
This is a great post! Well thought out.



thank you! just something i've been thinking about and wondered how others may feel about this topic.
Method
Sal, Im not even gonna touch the argument about LH, cuz I think its all hypothetical, I just take exception to the following point you made....

QUOTE
Hopkins is clearly avoiding Dawson because Dawson is young, strong, has a decent chin, and throws punches in combinations. Hopkins knows he'd lose a decision and wants no part of it. Hopkins is waiting for one last payday against Roy.


That's just kind of ridiculous from start to finish...especially the last part about Roy.

C'mon.

And dont chalk it off to the "Meth, I like him like you do"....that has nothing to do with anything....just dissect the comment...it's kind of OFF...especially coming from a guy as logical as yourself.
streetlion1
QUOTE (salvador @ Sep 7 2009, 07:59 AM) *
Hopkins knows he's not number 1 at lhw - that spot belongs to Dawson.

Hopkins is clearly avoiding Dawson because Dawson is young, strong, has a decent chin, and throws punches in combinations. Hopkins knows he'd lose a decision and wants no part of it. Hopkins is waiting for one last payday against Roy.

I agree Dawson and B-Hop should fight but Dawson was given kind of a gift decision against Johnson. I dont think B-Hop is avoiding anyone...I think he is just waiting to see who is gonna give him the biggest pay day for his final fight. That being said I hope it is Dawson. While I like Dawson I dont think he can beat Bernard and would be yet another young flame put out by B-Hop.

No way he is waiting for Roy. After hearing their interview together I dont think this fight will happen...Roy hasnt beatin anyone to deserve a shot at B-Hop...his win against a lame-duck Lacey doesnt mean anything.
salvador
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 7 2009, 06:55 PM) *
Sal, Im not even gonna touch the argument about LH, cuz I think its all hypothetical, I just take exception to the following point you made....



That's just kind of ridiculous from start to finish...especially the last part about Roy.

C'mon.

And dont chalk it off to the "Meth, I like him like you do"....that has nothing to do with anything....just dissect the comment...it's kind of OFF...especially coming from a guy as logical as yourself.


It was a backhanded way to start a post and borderline disrespectful and I'm sorry for insulting your intelligence, but I do think that you have a slightly irrational attachment to him.

I guess I don't understand what's complicated about the fact that Hopkins has a perfect opponent in Dawson if he wants to prove he's clearly the man at 175, and yet the fight hasn't happened for some reason. The only reason I can think of is that Hopkins doesn't want the fight. Maybe there's not enough money in it (which is why Roy's name came up - because that is Hopkins' biggest money fight at 175). But I really think that the style matchup between Hopkins and Dawson is terrible for Hopkins and, I'm guessing, Bernard thinks so too.

Fitz, those are excellent stats. I stand corrected on that.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 7 2009, 07:02 PM) *
That's not entirely true. While Hopkins didn't struggle to make 160 I think the move up to 175 rejuvenated him. I have posted these stats before, but here they are.

Hopkins recent fights at middle:
Hopkins-Eastman: Hopkins threw 346 punches
Hopkins-Taylor I: Hopkins threw 326 punches
Hopkins-Taylor II: Hopkins threw 371 punches

Hopkins moves up from middle:
Hopkins-Tarver: Hopkins threw 417 punches
Hopkins-Wright: Hopkins threw 640 punches
Hopkins-Calazghe: Hopkins threw 468 punches
Hopkins-Pavlik: Hopkins threw 530 punches

His punch output has increased since moving above 160, and the fight he did lose was against Calzaghe (which was damn close, though I thought Calzaghe pipped him). But Calzaghe will outwork just about anyone. Since moving up, Hopkins hasn't resorted to throwing 20 punches a round since moving up, maybe prior to that at 160 he was, but since his move up I haven't seen that to make me believe that that's what he does.


Not saying I disagree with you, but maybe it was the style match-ups against those fighters at 160 you picked had something to do with Hops throwing less punches? I obviously do not know his punch output at other 160 fights, but I would tend to think he threw more punches per round against say a Daniels, Holmes, Joppy type fighter?
Method
QUOTE (salvador @ Sep 8 2009, 03:44 PM) *
It was a backhanded way to start a post and borderline disrespectful and I'm sorry for insulting your intelligence, but I do think that you have a slightly irrational attachment to him.


You admit your comment was backhanded and then accuse me of being irrational. LOL. That's pretty funny. If you can prove anywhere where 'm completely off base, and irrational, I'll stand corrected, and admit it. Until then, I disagree. Prove me wrong.
salvador
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 8 2009, 06:55 PM) *
You admit your comment was backhanded and then accuse me of being irrational. LOL. That's pretty funny. If you can prove anywhere where 'm completely off base, and irrational, I'll stand corrected, and admit it. Until then, I disagree. Prove me wrong.


My original comment was backhanded .... and you are blindly loyal to Hopkins to the point where it's at least possible that your judgement is a bit cloudy. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive.

As far as my proof of the second point, all I can say is that Dawson is very clearly the most credible opponent for Hopkins right now - and for some reason the fight hasn't happened. The easy answer is that there isn't enough money in the fight to make it worth Hopkins' while, but if that's the case why did he fight Tarver or Winky? Because I'd assume that the money wouldn't be much different with Dawson given the fact that most of the revenue would come from HBO (who I feel confident would love to put that fight on) and given my assumption that Hopkins would get the overwhelming lion's share of that purse. The only other fight on the horizon for Hopkins right now that would clearly be a bigger money fight for him would be Roy. And if he's not going to fight Roy, then why, at his age, did Hopkins allow Dawson to grant Johnson a rematch (a righteous rematch in every way) instead of pushing forward on a fight that I feel certain Dawson would kill for? The only answer I can come up with is that Bernard doesn't like the style matchup. Do you have a better reason?

Until I have a better explanation as to why Dawson-Hopkins hasn't happened, I'm going to assume that Hopkins is either waiting for one last big payday with Roy, or that he is ducking the younger fighter who throws punches in combinations.

And if this was any other fighter other than Hopkins, I think you would agree with me 100% because it's the most rational conclusion.
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