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Full Version: WTF is Mayweather Sr smoking???
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iron_mike
http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content5650.html

Couldn't cut and paste but read the last paragraph.

The guy is a bonafide crackhead, but how do you make a statement like that? 'he's got speed but he's got no skills' Especially after what he did to a fighter he trained for 3 months? Seems like Manny knocked him out instead of Hatton
bucktrain
Lol... yeah what do you expect from a guy is almost 60 and still tries to act/talk like a 15 year old thug? Hes like an older version of his son.. he sees what he wants to see and hears what he wants to hear no matter how far removed from reality it is.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (iron_mike @ Sep 10 2009, 07:52 PM) *
http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content5650.html

Couldn't cut and paste but read the last paragraph.

The guy is a bonafide crackhead, but how do you make a statement like that? 'he's got speed but he's got no skills' Especially after what he did to a fighter he trained for 3 months? Seems like Manny knocked him out instead of Hatton


seriously iron mike i never took may. sr. training hatton serious... just the way he trained him in general looked questionable... he beat the hell out of hatton for the pac. fight... just saying i can remember looking at the 24/7 for that fight thinking its no way he is training this guy like he is supposed to... showing up late for training etc... i think he was a long for the money train ride amongst a few other alterior motives...
provo
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Sep 10 2009, 06:30 PM) *
seriously iron mike i never took may. sr. training hatton serious... just the way he trained him in general looked questionable... he beat the hell out of hatton for the pac. fight... just saying i can remember looking at the 24/7 for that fight thinking its no way he is training this guy like he is supposed to... showing up late for training etc... i think he was a long for the money train ride amongst a few other alterior motives...


Money train ride exactly right ! First of all to train someone u gotta at least like the person or have some kind of bond shit be cool with him ! Floyd sr don't give a shit about anyone he's all about the money I think that's the only reason he's around his son!
Floyd sr might kno some good stuff about boxing in genarl but as a Trainer he sucks!
Big Slim Sweet
To Floyd Sr., it doesn't matter what Pacquaio does. He could knock out Sugar Ray Robinson and it wouldn't matter. He doesn't have the specific boxing skills that Floyd Sr. believes a fighter has to have to be considered great.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Sweetness @ Sep 10 2009, 09:52 PM) *
To Floyd Sr., it doesn't matter what Pacquaio does. He could knock out Sugar Ray Robinson and it wouldn't matter. He doesn't have the specific boxing skills that Floyd Sr. believes a fighter has to have to be considered great.


I agree with you. But Floyd Sr. needs to realize that Pac's style has netted him some pretty damn impressive wins in his career. Sure he ain't no PBF, but Pac has a different style that he is very effective with. Sr. should atleast give Pac some respect in there. Let's not forget how much weight Pac has put on and is constantly challenging himself against good bigger fighters. I know Pac has filled out pretty good, but still he is probably fighting a little heavier than he should be. Just my opinion.
JLUVBABY
i was looking at the pic of pac and cotto and pacs head is gigantic.. cotto is gonna be bustin that fat head of his all night long...
bucktrain
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Sep 10 2009, 10:38 PM) *
i was looking at the pic of pac and cotto and pacs head is gigantic.. cotto is gonna be bustin that fat head of his all night long...


actually i was thinking that pac is going to split both of cottos humongous ass lips
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
You also know that if Pac ever fired Roach and took Senior on as his trainer Senior would soon be telling everyone that Manny is one of the greatest fighters he's ever trained and by the time he's finished with him he'll be the greatest ever.
leonthegee
floyd sr is right. i dont know why everybody is geting all butthurt over it. hes only stating the obvious.
The CEO
I would smoke weed with Big Floyd....it'd be cool...we'd listen to some Blues and reminisce on the good ole days...
iron_mike
So Leon, you think Pac is not a great fighter? Has speed, but what's the point of speed if you can't land the target? He landed DLH's target 50,000 times and his own guy he trained took one nice shot to put him on his back. But agreed about the SRR comment..
leonthegee
QUOTE (iron_mike @ Sep 11 2009, 05:54 AM) *
So Leon, you think Pac is not a great fighter? Has speed, but what's the point of speed if you can't land the target? He landed DLH's target 50,000 times and his own guy he trained took one nice shot to put him on his back. But agreed about the SRR comment..


dlh was gun shy and freddy roach knew that. its easy to land punches when u dont have to worry about nothing coming back. i think manny is a really good fighter but not the p4p1 thats a joke. i would bet the house on floyd v pac and mosley v pac. and that has nothing to do with size and everything to do with skill. but that said i think manny has had a tremendous career. theres definately nothing wrong with being the 3rd best fighter out there.
thehype
Actually, I kind of understand what Big Floyd is getting at. I mean, don't get me wrong, Pacquiao is one bad mofo, but technically speaking, if you compare some of his skills to that of say Pernell Whitaker or James Toney, you can see that he's still kind of flawed with some of the things that he does. Now, in my opinion, that doesn't mean that he's not a great fighter because there are quite a few all-time great fighters who weren't the most technically skilled, but when Floyd is talking about his skills, I do understand what he means. Still though, I'm rolling with THE Pacquiao when he steps into the ring with Cotto simply because Cotto's skills aren't that "great" either. LOL.

THE Pacquiao TKO10

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
KookedKrack
QUOTE (The CEO @ Sep 11 2009, 07:48 AM) *
I would smoke weed with Big Floyd....it'd be cool...we'd listen to some Blues and reminisce on the good ole days...


laugh.gif You would probably end up killing him......that lung disease has him coughing up his lungs on 24/7, that kush would only make matters worse.
The CEO
QUOTE (KookedKrack @ Sep 11 2009, 10:26 AM) *
laugh.gif You would probably end up killing him......that lung disease has him coughing up his lungs on 24/7, that kush would only make matters worse.


lol....yeah...I thought about that after I typed....his lungs are feelin' it...so he probably doesn't smoke at all nowadays....bet he stays cranky...lol
Method
I agree w Senior. Hype put it as good as I would want to.
streetlion1
I think it depends on what you consider great. I agree with Floyd Sr. I think Pacman is a great offensive fighter...but the technical skills and the defense arent really there. Which is why I think Cotto knocks him out.

Yet look at his son...he would say his son is great.....and he may have great all-around skills but if he doesnt have the resume to go with it then what? To me what can make Pacman great is the fact that he ducks no one and he can always continue to improve as a fighter.

I hope Cotto doesnt totally destroy him.
leonthegee
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Sep 11 2009, 08:10 AM) *
I think it depends on what you consider great. I agree with Floyd Sr. I think Pacman is a great offensive fighter...but the technical skills and the defense arent really there. Which is why I think Cotto knocks him out.

Yet look at his son...he would say his son is great.....and he may have great all-around skills but if he doesnt have the resume to go with it then what? To me what can make Pacman great is the fact that he ducks no one and he can always continue to improve as a fighter.

I hope Cotto doesnt totally destroy him.


he ducks nobody please. thats why he fought david diaz cuz diaz was the best at 135 right. casamoyor, jaun diaz, or even nate campbell were all better than david diaz. thats why he fighting cotto at 145 and not shane mosley. he wouldnt even fight shane mosley at 140. cuz he ducks nobody. ya right.
iron_mike
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Sep 11 2009, 01:56 PM) *
he ducks nobody please. thats why he fought david diaz cuz diaz was the best at 135 right. casamoyor, jaun diaz, or even nate campbell were all better than david diaz. thats why he fighting cotto at 145 and not shane mosley. he wouldnt even fight shane mosley at 140. cuz he ducks nobody. ya right.



get over yourself. you can make the same argument about any of today's current fighters, except Shane
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Sep 11 2009, 12:56 PM) *
he ducks nobody please. thats why he fought david diaz cuz diaz was the best at 135 right. casamoyor, jaun diaz, or even nate campbell were all better than david diaz. thats why he fighting cotto at 145 and not shane mosley. he wouldnt even fight shane mosley at 140. cuz he ducks nobody. ya right.


cotto has a win over shane... cotto is a very tough fight.. one in which i dont expect pac to win...
iron_mike
QUOTE (thehype @ Sep 11 2009, 09:55 AM) *
Actually, I kind of understand what Big Floyd is getting at. I mean, don't get me wrong, Pacquiao is one bad mofo, but technically speaking, if you compare some of his skills to that of say Pernell Whitaker or James Toney, you can see that he's still kind of flawed with some of the things that he does. Now, in my opinion, that doesn't mean that he's not a great fighter because there are quite a few all-time great fighters who weren't the most technically skilled, but when Floyd is talking about his skills, I do understand what he means. Still though, I'm rolling with THE Pacquiao when he steps into the ring with Cotto simply because Cotto's skills aren't that "great" either. LOL.

THE Pacquiao TKO10

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


Yes he's got flaws, off balance, defense is not the greatest, but he's got a heck of a chin, though not really tested since JMM II, but Floyd Sr. is really off base with his ridiculous comments. In the 24/7, he said Pac throws punches like an amateur, you can beat other amatuers with his style but not pros. THEN WHY THE FUCK DOES HE ANNIHILATE PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE HE FIGHTS?? Whoever said if big Floyd was in Pac's corner he'd be singing his praises was dead on the money
leonthegee
QUOTE (iron_mike @ Sep 11 2009, 11:29 AM) *
get over yourself. you can make the same argument about any of today's current fighters, except Shane


ur absolutely right yet everybody kills floyd for the same bullshit. talk about a double standard. if floyd would of pulled the same bullshit that manny pulled, with the weight and forcing cotto to put up the wbo tittle, everybody would of crucified floyd. and u know this is true.
leonthegee
QUOTE (iron_mike @ Sep 11 2009, 11:29 AM) *
get over yourself. you can make the same argument about any of today's current fighters, except Shane


ur absolutely right yet everybody kills floyd for the same bullshit. talk about a double standard. if floyd would of pulled the same bullshit that manny pulled, with the weight and forcing cotto to put up the wbo tittle, everybody would of crucified floyd. and u know this is true.
AussieLad
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Sep 11 2009, 10:53 PM) *
ur absolutely right yet everybody kills floyd for the same bullshit. talk about a double standard. if floyd would of pulled the same bullshit that manny pulled, with the weight and forcing cotto to put up the wbo tittle, everybody would of crucified floyd. and u know this is true.


The answer is obvious.

Pac is fighting someone capable of beating him, a bigger, stronger, powerful and skilled opponent.

Mayweather is fighting someone not capable of beating him, a smaller, slower, less powerfull opponent.

Thats just what mayweather does, he only takes fights where he is 100% certain he will win. And thats how he maintains that spotless record he is always trumpetting, that so many groupies want to rim job him every night over
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Sep 11 2009, 06:00 PM) *
Thats just what mayweather does, he only takes fights where he is 100% certain he will win. And thats how he maintains that spotless record he is always trumpetting, that so many groupies want to rim job him every night over

I don't think anyone thought he was certain to beat DLH until after the fight happened. A lot of people picked DLH.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Sep 11 2009, 05:19 PM) *
I don't think anyone thought he was certain to beat DLH until after the fight happened. A lot of people picked DLH.



C'mon Rust I'm sure a lot of casual sports fans picked DLH but how many hardcore fans, the types which frequent these boards, really thought he had a chance? Not many I suspect, I certainly didn't and I don't remember many other posters picking Fishnets but I could be wrong.

also another point, this is not one you raised but why is it that manny's fight with DLH was considered such an easy challenge for the Pacman? Sure in retrospect it looked easy but ít's not Manny that fucked it up. DLH (and I lay the blame with Nacho Berestein here) totally screwed up making weight for that fight.

He lost way too much too quickly but at the time many felt this was still a dangerous fight for Manny. Floyd senior is right, if he had trained DLH for that fight he would've taken the weight off properly and while Oscar may not have won the fight I bet it would've been a shitload more competitive. I still think it was a brave move from Manny to jump those weigth classes and fight DLH at 147, rather than a guy cherry picking an over the hill fighter. It was only after that fight that you could truely call Oscar over the hill.
Method
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Sep 11 2009, 06:19 PM) *
I don't think anyone thought he was certain to beat DLH until after the fight happened. A lot of people picked DLH.



Shit. To be honest, I thought Floyd/DLH was a DRAW. And I HATE Fishnets.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Sep 11 2009, 07:43 PM) *
C'mon Rust I'm sure a lot of casual sports fans picked DLH but how many hardcore fans, the types which frequent these boards, really thought he had a chance? Not many I suspect, I certainly didn't and I don't remember many other posters picking Fishnets but I could be wrong.

also another point, this is not one you raised but why is it that manny's fight with DLH was considered such an easy challenge for the Pacman? Sure in retrospect it looked easy but ít's not Manny that fucked it up. DLH (and I lay the blame with Nacho Berestein here) totally screwed up making weight for that fight.

He lost way too much too quickly but at the time many felt this was still a dangerous fight for Manny. Floyd senior is right, if he had trained DLH for that fight he would've taken the weight off properly and while Oscar may not have won the fight I bet it would've been a shitload more competitive. I still think it was a brave move from Manny to jump those weigth classes and fight DLH at 147, rather than a guy cherry picking an over the hill fighter. It was only after that fight that you could truely call Oscar over the hill.

um, i'm pretty sure alot of boxing media and hardcore fans thought DLH was a serious challenge to Floyd, given the size disparity. Remember, he only became an old man after that fight.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 11 2009, 08:00 PM) *
Shit. To be honest, I thought Floyd/DLH was a DRAW. And I HATE Fishnets.

I think Floyd won pretty easily, but I just meant that before the fight there wasn't any talk about DLH being "old and washed up" or "easy work" for Floyd. It was certainly perceived as a challenge for both fighters
Method
Yeah, I hear ya. I think that was kinda cuz of the weight? But then again Baldo-queer was at that weight. But seriously, DLH was already a 4 time defeated fighter.

But honestly, for as much BuLLSHIT as PBF talked to DLH and leading up to DLH, he laid a fucking egg. You had him winning easy, and thats cool. I had it a draw, and the judges had it split.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 11 2009, 08:21 PM) *
Yeah, I hear ya. I think that was kinda cuz of the weight? But then again Baldo-queer was at that weight. But seriously, DLH was already a 4 time defeated fighter.

yeah, but his losses were Trinidad, Hopkins(he never had a shot in that one) and Mosley 2x. Most people think he won the Trinidad fight, and a lot had him winning the second Shane fight. No one though DLH was a pushover before the fight happened.
Method
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Sep 11 2009, 08:27 PM) *
yeah, but his losses were Trinidad, Hopkins(he never had a shot in that one) and Mosley 2x. Most people think he won the Trinidad fight, and a lot had him winning the second Shane fight. No one though DLH was a pushover before the fight happened.


I thought he won the Trini fight and i thought he won the Mosley II fight no if's, and's or but's,

I dislike DLH and PBF, nd I thought DLH fought him to a draw. Again, for as much shit as PBF threatened and talked, he ran from DLH.


It's all good though. Whatever.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 11 2009, 08:55 PM) *
I thought he won the Trini fight and i thought he won the Mosley II fight no if's, and's or but's,

I dislike DLH and PBF, nd I thought DLH fought him to a draw. Again, for as much shit as PBF threatened and talked, he ran from DLH.


It's all good though. Whatever.

yeah, my only point was that nobody thought DLH was "easy work" or that he was cherrypicking before the fight. DLH was regarded a serious challenge to Floyd at the time.
torvix2000
QUOTE (rusty_trombone @ Sep 12 2009, 01:10 AM) *
yeah, my only point was that nobody thought DLH was "easy work" or that he was cherrypicking before the fight. DLH was regarded a serious challenge to Floyd at the time.


This is irrelevant.
leonthegee
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Sep 11 2009, 03:00 PM) *
The answer is obvious.

Pac is fighting someone capable of beating him, a bigger, stronger, powerful and skilled opponent.

Mayweather is fighting someone not capable of beating him, a smaller, slower, less powerfull opponent.

Thats just what mayweather does, he only takes fights where he is 100% certain he will win. And thats how he maintains that spotless record he is always trumpetting, that so many groupies want to rim job him every night over


well then if thats ur logic then floyd shouldnt be fighting anybody. floyd has the skill to expose every fighter out there period point blank. thats just a fact and floyds always going to be the favorite whether it's mosley, cotto, pacquiao, williams, margarito, or any other bum u put in the ring with him. the fact is his A fight game beats anybody elses A fight game. hate him or love him thats the way it is.
iron_mike
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 11 2009, 08:00 PM) *
Shit. To be honest, I thought Floyd/DLH was a DRAW. And I HATE Fishnets.



I just rewatched it the other day. It wasn't nearly as competitive as when I saw it live (ppv, not in person) From rd 6 on, Floyd WON, he didn't dominate, but I thought Floyd should have gotten a UD. I gave Oscar only 3 or 4 rounds at most. Alot of those 6 or 7 body punch flurries were all blocked for the most part, while the crowd is exploding and Floyd is smiling, knowing that they're not landing but looks impressive.
torvix2000
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Sep 12 2009, 03:25 AM) *
well then if thats ur logic then floyd shouldnt be fighting anybody.


The problem is that Floyd's logic defies his own logic. And most of his fans' logic, too.
torvix2000
QUOTE (iron_mike @ Sep 12 2009, 04:25 AM) *
I just rewatched it the other day. It wasn't nearly as competitive as when I saw it live (ppv, not in person) From rd 6 on, Floyd WON, he didn't dominate, but I thought Floyd should have gotten a UD. I gave Oscar only 3 or 4 rounds at most. Alot of those 6 or 7 body punch flurries were all blocked for the most part, while the crowd is exploding and Floyd is smiling, knowing that they're not landing but looks impressive.


Oscar was shot.
leonthegee
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Sep 11 2009, 10:19 PM) *
Oscar was shot.


so oscar was shot when ur husband beat him too. is that what ur saying?
leonthegee
QUOTE (iron_mike @ Sep 11 2009, 09:25 PM) *
I just rewatched it the other day. It wasn't nearly as competitive as when I saw it live (ppv, not in person) From rd 6 on, Floyd WON, he didn't dominate, but I thought Floyd should have gotten a UD. I gave Oscar only 3 or 4 rounds at most. Alot of those 6 or 7 body punch flurries were all blocked for the most part, while the crowd is exploding and Floyd is smiling, knowing that they're not landing but looks impressive.


name a fighter out there that floyd wouldnt be favored against??? thats what i thought there isnt any.
torvix2000
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Sep 12 2009, 05:27 AM) *
name a fighter out there that floyd wouldnt be favored against??? thats what i thought there isnt any.


What is the point?
torvix2000
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Sep 12 2009, 05:24 AM) *
so oscar was shot when Pacquiao beat him too. is that what ur saying?


Yup!!! Oscar was shot when Pac beat him. Freddie Roach clearly stated that.

Oscar was already shot when Floyd beat him.
leonthegee
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Sep 11 2009, 10:29 PM) *
What is the point?


the point is u cant but at least u admited that oscar was shot most pac fans cant admit that. the diffence between floyd and manny is that floyd can win a fight giving a c+ b- performance. manny gives a b- performance he looses to an over the hill eric morales.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Sep 12 2009, 12:34 AM) *
the point is u cant but at least u admited that oscar was shot most pac fans cant admit that. the diffence between floyd and manny is that floyd can win a fight giving a c+ b- performance. manny gives a b- performance he looses to an over the hill eric morales.


I'm not sure Floyd would beat Paul Williams giving a c+ performance. Nor would I like him be putting on a c+ clinic against Mosley, that could end painfully for him. Heck I wouldn't like to see Floyd at c+ against either Pac or Cotto either, I'm not sure he would get the job done.

However I doubt we'll find out as I don't see him fighting many of those guys. In fact I bet he's praying that Ivan Claderon wins his next fight so that he can line up a mega event with yet another 'pound for pounder.'

For the record Eric Morales looked pretty darn good the night he beat Manny. I'd say it was the last great performance he had within himself.
leonthegee
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Sep 11 2009, 10:49 PM) *
I'm not sure Floyd would beat Paul Williams giving a c+ performance. Nor would I like him be putting on a c+ clinic against Mosley, that could end painfully for him. Heck I wouldn't like to see Floyd at c+ against either Pac or Cotto either, I'm not sure he would get the job done.

However I doubt we'll find out as I don't see him fighting many of those guys. In fact I bet he's praying that Ivan Claderon wins his next fight so that he can line up a mega event with yet another 'pound for pounder.'

For the record Eric Morales looked pretty darn good the night he beat Manny. I'd say it was the last great performance he had within himself.


i never said he could be mosley or williams giving a c performance. he beat dlh giving a c performance. floyd doesnt have many c performance fights hes an A+ fighter and his best fight beats mosley, williams, or any other fighter out there. dlh was 1 of his worse performances as a pro but he still got the win pretty easily just didnt really look that good. and morales didnt look that good in the 1st pacquiao fight. he looked like a california raisin going into that fight but pac is a 1 domentional fighter and got exposed as such. hes a little bit more polished now but far from a complete fighter.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Sep 11 2009, 10:25 PM) *
well then if thats ur logic then floyd shouldnt be fighting anybody. floyd has the skill to expose every fighter out there period point blank. thats just a fact and floyds always going to be the favorite whether it's mosley, cotto, pacquiao, williams, margarito, or any other bum u put in the ring with him. the fact is his A fight game beats anybody elses A fight game. hate him or love him thats the way it is.

LMAO at this bullshit. You're calling guys bums? Check it, Mosley and Williams beat Floyd's ass if they bring their A games and it doesn't matter what lil Floyd comes to the table with, you hear me? THEY WILL BEAT HIS ASS.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Sep 12 2009, 01:02 AM) *
i never said he could be mosley or williams giving a c performance. he beat dlh giving a c performance. floyd doesnt have many c performance fights hes an A+ fighter and his best fight beats mosley, williams, or any other fighter out there. dlh was 1 of his worse performances as a pro but he still got the win pretty easily just didnt really look that good. and morales didnt look that good in the 1st pacquiao fight. he looked like a california raisin going into that fight but pac is a 1 domentional fighter and got exposed as such. hes a little bit more polished now but far from a complete fighter.



Actually what you said was:

'the diffence between Floyd and Manny is that floyd can win a fight giving a c+ b- performance.'

I just pointed out 4 reasonable examples where he would struggle to win the fight if he gave a c+ b- performance.

I thought Eric looked pretty good in the 1st Pac fight, just the usual first ballot hall of famer he always was. Certainly Pac was a much more 1 demensional fighter back then but it would take a real Pac hater not to admit he hasn't improved leaps and bounds since then rather than just 'a little bit more polished now.'

You're starting to sound as ridiculous as your name sake. LOL

leonthegee
QUOTE (Sweetness @ Sep 11 2009, 11:18 PM) *
LMAO at this bullshit. You're calling guys bums? Check it, Mosley and Williams beat Floyd's ass if they bring their A games and it doesn't matter what lil Floyd comes to the table with, you hear me? THEY WILL BEAT HIS ASS.


please bro p will lost to carlos quintana not even in mayweathers league. and mosleys disappointed me more than any other fighter in history. shanes a good fighter but no head movement and gets hit entirely too much. still my 2nd favorite fighter but theres a reason why he choose to fight margarito instead of mayweather. i loved the line about the hurt tooth as well and if u dont know what im talking about then u have no business arguing with me.
leonthegee
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Sep 11 2009, 11:24 PM) *
Actually what you said was:

'the diffence between Floyd and Manny is that floyd can win a fight giving a c+ b- performance.'

I just pointed out 4 reasonable examples where he would struggle to win the fight if he gave a c+ b- performance.

I thought Eric looked pretty good in the 1st Pac fight, just the usual first ballot hall of famer he always was. Certainly Pac was a much more 1 demensional fighter back then but it would take a real Pac hater not to admit he hasn't improved leaps and bounds since then rather than just 'a little bit more polished now.'

You're starting to sound as ridiculous as your name sake. LOL


he is a bit more polished now i can admit that. i love watching manny fight. hes my 3rd favorite fighter behind money may and mosley it's the manny fans i cant stand. i think mayweather and mosley would both be favored against manny but that doesnt mean hes not a good fighter. there is absolutely nothing wrong with being the 3rd best fighter in the world. most fighters dont ever make it that far.
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