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The CEO
Sweet interview...

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content5658.html


Like some of you are....I'm one of those old Toney fans who couldn't take it any more and got disappointed with him as well.....but hey...I will ALWAYS listen to what James has to say...looked like he was glad to be on the site...





Method
Yeah. Im all for "old school", but Toney talks about how he went back to "old school" training methods. It would have been nice to delve into a little bit of that to find out exactly what the fuck he was talking about. For all we know it could mean he got back to "performance enhancers".

As for him calling out Roy and Bernard....I mean, that's whatever. you could go back and find plenty of articles where he calls Hopkins old school like him, so a lot of this double talk can be chalked off to him needing to get paid....BAD. Im not mad at that. I wouldn't mind seeing him in the ring with either guy.
EirbinX
i wouldn't call Toney Jones 2 a bad idea. roy is talking shit about how hapkins wont give him a chance. How about he gives Toney chance. I mean wats wrong with both of them having a rematch at Cruiserweight or Heavyweight. Winner gets Hopkins.
D-MARV
QUOTE
Man FUCK Roy Jones and Benrard Hopkins; them some billygoat, scapegoat motherfuckers.


LMAO. That's classic! I would have loved to have seen Toney VS Hopkins in their primes.
singletrack
I always like to hear what James Toney has to say and I really enjoyed reading that.

I think him calling out Roy is perfect. Roy is saying that he is easy to make a fight with; then give Toney a shot. Personally, I think Toney has a good chance of KOing Jones if Jones' legs aren't there. I don't think Roy can do anything to stop James from coming forward - the dude took BOMBS from Sam Peter and just smiled at him.

I'd also be interested to see him fight Bernard, but I doubt Hopkins is interested in that. What weight would either guy fight Toney at, and how light can he really get? It would be amazing to see a sub-200 lb James Toney again, but I think that is probably as likely as seeing the old RJJ again ; )
Lil-lightsout
I loved the interview, I have been one of his biggest fans for a long time. I am anxious to see what he looks like this weekend. Been let down countless times, so I def do not have my hopes up too high though. I just don't think he respects anyone enough to listen to and get in his best shape.Toney can only help himself. I would love to see him fight a Hopkins or Jones, but realistically Toney NEEDS to lose some serious weight if he is to be taking seriously. His training camps should be somewhere where there are no buffets, fast food joints, and ice cream shops in a 100 mile radius.

Hopefully you can get some more interviews with him in the future.
Method
I wouldn't be surprised to see Roy beat Toney the same damn way. Toney even less mobile now. Hopkins would beat that ass too. I love the idea of James Toney, but these guys are still too complete AND MOBILE for Toney's fat ass...and let's face it, Toney's best fights are performed on audio tape recorder. They don't translate well onto the big screen.
pcraw
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 11 2009, 12:34 PM) *
I wouldn't be surprised to see Roy beat Toney the same damn way. Toney even less mobile now. Hopkins would beat that ass too. I love the idea of James Toney, but these guys are still too complete AND MOBILE for Toney's fat ass...and let's face it, Toney's best fights are performed on audio tape recorder. They don't translate well onto the big screen.



I think Jones' losses in the mobility and speed department hurts him way more then Toney's lack of mobility. Toney has always stood right in front of his opponents and rolled away from punches and bend at the waist. 71 wins and never being knocked out is not translating on the big screen? OK!
pcraw
I like all 3 fighter's but honestly, I've seen both Roy and Bernard more vulnerable then I have ever seen James. 5"9 and holding his own against heavyweights. Much props!
singletrack
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 11 2009, 01:34 PM) *
I wouldn't be surprised to see Roy beat Toney the same damn way. Toney even less mobile now. Hopkins would beat that ass too. I love the idea of James Toney, but these guys are still too complete AND MOBILE for Toney's fat ass...and let's face it, Toney's best fights are performed on audio tape recorder. They don't translate well onto the big screen.


Hahahahaaha. I still remember after the 2nd Peter fight when he was going nuts saying something like "Can't nobody whip James Toney!". I wanna say Merchant was interviewing him and he said something like, "Wait, do you think you WON that fight!?" The first fight was close, but he got his ass kicked in the second one.

Jones is more mobile yes, but if he sits on the ropes as he seems inclined to do these days, Toney will punish him.
Method
QUOTE (pcraw @ Sep 11 2009, 02:04 PM) *
71 wins and never being knocked out is not translating on the big screen? OK!


Sorry, I should have qualified that statement more clearly, what I meant to say was, Toney's best fights ANYMORE are performed on audio tape recorder. They don't translate well onto the big screen.

I was NOT referring to all 71, and obviously not his prime. Over the past several years, Tony talks the talk, but now rolls, rather than walks.

I'm a fan, but fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Roy would likely be able to potshot Toney just as effectively now as he did then. Whatever Roy looks like he lost in the speed and mobility dept against lighter, faster guys....he'd look like greased lightning against fat ass Toney...just like he did against Ruiz.

I could care less about Jones, I think he's full of shit at this point, but I'm calling it how I believe it would be....

....but again, like I said, I wouldnt complain if any of these fights happened. All the shit talking leading up to any of them alone would be worth the PPV.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (pcraw @ Sep 11 2009, 02:09 PM) *
I like all 3 fighter's but honestly, I've seen both Roy and Bernard more vulnerable then I have ever seen James. 5"9 and holding his own against heavyweights. Much props!

Damn right! Some of the bombs he took from Peter amazed me. And let's be honest, Toney has been severely overweight in so many of his fights in recent years(since the Holyfield fight), and he can still compete with them. Now it is his own fault for those circumstances, but I think we are all waiting and wanting to see him ATLEAST under 220 lbs to see if he can still perform at a higher level. If only Toney would go down to 200 pounds and beat the champs at cruiserweight.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 11 2009, 02:48 PM) *
Damn right! Some of the bombs he took from Peter amazed me. And let's be honest, Toney has been severely overweight in so many of his fights in recent years(since the Holyfield fight), and he can still compete with them. Now it is his own fault for those circumstances, but I think we are all waiting and wanting to see him ATLEAST under 220 lbs to see if he can still perform at a higher level. If only Toney would go down to 200 pounds and beat the champs at cruiserweight.


i seriously doubt toney can make 220 much less cruiser... lol... toney has old man weight now.. that would be hard as hell to come off...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Sep 11 2009, 04:01 PM) *
i seriously doubt toney can make 220 much less cruiser... lol... toney has old man weight now.. that would be hard as hell to come off...


He could easily make it physically, mentally is another story. There is/was a lot of excess baggage that can be lost.
Michigan Assassin
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 11 2009, 04:23 PM) *
He could easily make it physically, mentally is another story. There is/was a lot of excess baggage that can be lost.



Fightnews has the weigh in from Pechanga and it says JT came in at 217.5!!!

Can't believe it but I hope this is true.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Michigan Assassin @ Sep 11 2009, 06:07 PM) *
Fightnews has the weigh in from Pechanga and it says JT came in at 217.5!!!

Can't believe it but I hope this is true.



Me too! I just about fell off my chair. I actually said out loud 'what the fuck.' If that weight is for real that's almost about as interesting as the fight itself. In fact forget the fight. Any weigh-in photos floating around?

Ha ha yeah James talks a lot of smack and half the time I don't think even he believes what he is spouting but it sure is fun to read. For what it's worth I look at James' resume right up until the Jones Junior fight and I think it's more impressive than either Hopkins or Roy's. The guy fought some bad dudes and the TIMEFRAME he did it in for a modern fighter is just insane.

I know Method is probably gonna unload on me for saying that, LOL, but in the first third of his career he really was the shit. I'd have liked to see him V. Ex in their primes, I'll take Toney in that fight.
Method
Dont preclude to think what I'm gonna do to you. I could care less, to be honest brother. You're entitled to take who you want, and believe what you will. Why would I unload on something that was expected. I really don't care enough about your opinion to "unload" on that comment.

All good.

For me it's not a matter of whether Toney is 217 or 235 - Six of one/half dozen of the other (at heavyweight). I still maintain what I said earlier, regardless of the current weight.

As for the charge about the first 1/3rd of Toney's resume, please, break it down for me. Despite what I stated earlier in the post, given that your impressed with it, I am interested as to what your take was on those fights as they were happening.
rusty_trombone
i hate all of the talk about "if i wasn't overweight, i would have won" or "if Toney would have stayed in shape..." Fact of the matter is training is a large part of boxing, and if you have spent your entire career being overweight then you are just a could have been. No one forced him to eat his way out of every weight division, diet is part of being a complete fighter, and Toney has always come up short in that department.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 11 2009, 02:28 PM) *
Roy would likely be able to potshot Toney just as effectively now as he did then. Whatever Roy looks like he lost in the speed and mobility dept against lighter, faster guys....he'd look like greased lightning against fat ass Toney...just like he did against Ruiz.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Toney would not be able to move his fat ass around the ring quick enough to be in position to do anything. And he's certainly not going to stand in front of the behemoth.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 11 2009, 06:55 PM) *
Dont preclude to think what I'm gonna do to you. I could care less, to be honest brother. You're entitled to take who you want, and believe what you will. Why would I unload on something that was expected. I really don't care enough about your opinion to "unload" on that comment.

All good.

For me it's not a matter of whether Toney is 217 or 235 - Six of one/half dozen of the other (at heavyweight). I still maintain what I said earlier, regardless of the current weight.

As for the charge about the first 1/3rd of Toney's resume, please, break it down for me. Despite what I stated earlier in the post, given that your impressed with it, I am interested as to what your take was on those fights as they were happening.


Oh Method I only preclude it because I've only had a couple of minor disagreements with you in the past and you pretty much start by telling me to 'fuck off' from the get go. I'm not the only one you've done this to which has been duly noted here recently. But as you say, whatever.

I like his wins over Williams, Littles, Barkley, de Witt, McCallum, Nunn, Sosa and Reggie Johnson. Some merely solid names and some all time greats and he fought them relatively early on his career. Some wins he scraped to admittedly and some he just broke the guys down brutally.

James is the enternal underacheiver but thos eearly fights gave us a taste of how good he could have become.
Method
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Sep 11 2009, 08:27 PM) *
James is the enternal underacheiver but thos eearly fights gave us a taste of how good he could have become.


...and there lies the "rub" that elicits the "fuck off" comments, bro...

You are basing your prediction of this or that based on Toney being "the eternal underacheiver" and "how good he could have become".

Are you starting to understand the root cause of my responses?

Again, it's all good, and you're entitled to yours, but it's simple ass shit offerings like the aforementioned that illicit mine.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Michigan Assassin @ Sep 11 2009, 07:07 PM) *
Fightnews has the weigh in from Pechanga and it says JT came in at 217.5!!!

Can't believe it but I hope this is true.



Good to hear. No fighter is perfect, and Toney's biggest weakness has always been his eating habits. Sure he could have been better, but I love the guy cause he was always willing to just fucking fight anyone. No matter how big or whatever. Most of today's fighters are so protected and pampered and are just out for the money. Look at all these ridiculous demands and options and percentages involved with making a fight. I mean if some of these cats would just fucking get in the damn ring and fight one another. I understand no one wants to get hosed too, but look at these long ass layoffs by many fighters cause they sit on the shelf so long for various reasons. So much BS to make fights. Everyone knows damn well if either Klit would offer James a fight tomorrow, he would take it. He does not care, he wants to fight the best.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 11 2009, 07:51 PM) *
...and there lies the "rub" that elicits the "fuck off" comments, bro...

You are basing your prediction of this or that based on Toney being "the eternal underacheiver" and "how good he could have become".

Are you starting to understand the root cause of my responses?

Again, it's all good, and you're entitled to yours, but it's simple ass shit offerings like the aforementioned that illicit mine.


Nope I'm basing it on the belief that that early version of Toney at 160-168 pounds beats any version of your boyfriend Hopkins, period. A prime Roy style wise will always beat JT (and it gives me no pleasure to say that LOL) in what will always be a fairly boring fight.

Read closer I'm still saying as great as Toney is he could've been even greater. Great to the point of discsssing him in your top 5 of all time great. That's how good I thought he could've become. As it was he has had a pretty fantastic career running on about 70% of his ability.

I'd say the root cause of your response is that you have giant ole man crush on Hopkins and whenever someone even mentions a fighter they think can beat him, it sends you into fits of fury where you start throwing low blows quicker than a dazed Trinidad.

Method
Quite the contrary. I only take exception to baseless claims, such as the "a prime 160-168 Toney beats any version of..."

I have no problem that you think it, but you offer up nothing to qualify o quantify...just "based on what he could have been"

Im not in a fury over nothin. I could care less about it if you threw something up that backed your claim. But ya dont. You just state it matter of factly, based on what he woulda been if he didnt underachieve..or whatever. But its all good. I understand not everyone is capable of making a valid point. As far as you saying "any version of Toney, and claim I am up in arms, I can say wen they were slated to fight at Cruiser, and Ring Mag put out their double issue special 4 out of 5 analysts/experts picked Hops to beat him, and none of them were named "Method", so my vision can't be that myopic, can it?

Regardless, Im a fan of James. As some one put it, I dig the fact that he's ready to throw whenever, Bu ti do remember Hopkins stormed one of Toney's pressers when he (Toney) was a middie, and Toney moved to Super Middie shortly thereafter.

Naazim told me a real interesting story about all that and the entire prospect of a Toney/Hopkins fight over the years when it was finally thought the cruiser weight fight was made.

Whatevs.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 11 2009, 10:44 PM) *
Quite the contrary. I only take exception to baseless claims, such as the "a prime 160-168 Toney beats any version of..."

I have no problem that you think it, but you offer up nothing to qualify o quantify...just "based on what he could have been"

Im not in a fury over nothin. I could care less about it if you threw something up that backed your claim. But ya dont. You just state it matter of factly, based on what he woulda been if he didnt underachieve..or whatever. But its all good. I understand not everyone is capable of making a valid point. As far as you saying "any version of Toney, and claim I am up in arms, I can say wen they were slated to fight at Cruiser, and Ring Mag put out their double issue special 4 out of 5 analysts/experts picked Hops to beat him, and none of them were named "Method", so my vision can't be that myopic, can it?

Regardless, Im a fan of James. As some one put it, I dig the fact that he's ready to throw whenever, Bu ti do remember Hopkins stormed one of Toney's pressers when he (Toney) was a middie, and Toney moved to Super Middie shortly thereafter.

Naazim told me a real interesting story about all that and the entire prospect of a Toney/Hopkins fight over the years when it was finally thought the cruiser weight fight was made.

Whatevs.


All I can base it on, as much as anyone can, is watching their respective fights over the years, looking at what each guy brings to the table and deciding from there. For mine James hung with some serious dudes in that early part of his career and I like him over Hopkins, and no I'm not basing that on the older B-Hop, but the more active version. The dude didn't get the name The Executioner for nothing. I like James' speed in this mythical match up and I think the angles he presents would give Hopkins problems.

But fair is fair that's no one-sided match-up, they both have plenty of moments in this fight.

It would've been a better scrap than either of their fights with Roy.

I don't really care for what experts predict as often they can be as wrong as we the fans when making picks. Teddy Atlas anyone? LOL A good way to make money off fights is to find out whom Teddy Atlas is picking and back the opposite guy.

Don't think I'm anti Hopkins, shoot when I'm feeling down in the dumps and want to cheer myself up I usually put either his fight with Pavlik or his fight with Tarver into the DVD and hey presto! I'm feeling much better again. His beatdown of Trinidad is one of my fave beatdowns of all time.

Obviously you would pick Hopkins in this fight and I'd say you could make a relevant argument either the way. I guess the saddest thing is we'll never know. As a fan of the sport from the late 80's it is probably in my top 3 fights that never happened category.
Warlord
Thanks for that interview, Percy. James Toney is an all-time favorite of mine, and an all-time great too. I hope James can land a fight with Roy or Bernard before it's all said and done.

Hopkins/Toney would be great, even now, I think, and it's a fight alot of purists would be down with, me included. We may not ever get a chance to see that much skill in the same ring again for a long, long time.
Warlord
QUOTE (pcraw @ Sep 11 2009, 01:09 PM) *
5"9 and holding his own against heavyweights. Much props!

Co-signing that all day long. It doesn't matter what James weighs, he's not a natural heavyweight. He gets my respect for even hanging around the division as long as he has. Roy Jones and Michael Spinks didn't make it a habit the way James did. They were opportunists. James actually tried (is trying) to get it done legitimately.
Method
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 12 2009, 05:50 AM) *
Co-signing that all day long. It doesn't matter what James weighs, he's not a natural heavyweight. He gets my respect for even hanging around the division as long as he has. Roy Jones and Michael Spinks didn't make it a habit the way James did. They were opportunists. James actually tried (is trying) to get it done legitimately.


Yup. All day long make those Hopkins/Toney, Jones/Toney fights. And you're right, Toney AIN'T a heavyweight, despite weighing in at 217. At 217 you can see he''s still out of fuckin shape.
Method
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Sep 12 2009, 12:41 AM) *
All I can base it on, as much as anyone can, is watching their respective fights over the years, looking at what each guy brings to the table and deciding from there. For mine James hung with some serious dudes in that early part of his career and I like him over Hopkins, and no I'm not basing that on the older B-Hop, but the more active version. The dude didn't get the name The Executioner for nothing. I like James' speed in this mythical match up and I think the angles he presents would give Hopkins problems.

But fair is fair that's no one-sided match-up, they both have plenty of moments in this fight.

It would've been a better scrap than either of their fights with Roy.

I don't really care for what experts predict as often they can be as wrong as we the fans when making picks. Teddy Atlas anyone? LOL A good way to make money off fights is to find out whom Teddy Atlas is picking and back the opposite guy.

Don't think I'm anti Hopkins, shoot when I'm feeling down in the dumps and want to cheer myself up I usually put either his fight with Pavlik or his fight with Tarver into the DVD and hey presto! I'm feeling much better again. His beatdown of Trinidad is one of my fave beatdowns of all time.

Obviously you would pick Hopkins in this fight and I'd say you could make a relevant argument either the way. I guess the saddest thing is we'll never know. As a fan of the sport from the late 80's it is probably in my top 3 fights that never happened category.


It's all good dude. I would pay $50 jus tto hear those two talk shit to each other and about each other for 4 months.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 11 2009, 03:23 PM) *
He could easily make it physically, mentally is another story. There is/was a lot of excess baggage that can be lost.


lol... yep i just read the weigh in and i stand corrected... im interestd to see how he looks in the fight...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 11 2009, 03:23 PM) *
He could easily make it physically, mentally is another story. There is/was a lot of excess baggage that can be lost.


lol... yep i just read the weigh in and i stand corrected... im interestd to see how he looks in the fight...
pcraw
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 12 2009, 06:50 AM) *
Yup. All day long make those Hopkins/Toney, Jones/Toney fights. And you're right, Toney AIN'T a heavyweight, despite weighing in at 217. At 217 you can see he''s still out of fuckin shape.



This is my last post on this topic because it seems Meth gets off on these back and forth post. But putting things in perspective he's what 41 years old and weighed 230 pounds in his last fight which was 8 to 9 months ago. I would hardly say he's out of shape. Does he still have some weight he could lose...sure, but far from out of shape. Hell I'm 29 and it's tough for me to lose 10 pounds in 9 months, so again much props. It's easy being Monday morning quaterback.
pcraw
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 12 2009, 04:45 AM) *
Thanks for that interview, Percy. James Toney is an all-time favorite of mine, and an all-time great too. I hope James can land a fight with Roy or Bernard before it's all said and done.

Hopkins/Toney would be great, even now, I think, and it's a fight alot of purists would be down with, me included. We may not ever get a chance to see that much skill in the same ring again for a long, long time.



No problem Warlord. Good to see you back buddy. We've had our differences, but it's because we're both passionate about both sports. Toney is an all time favorite of mine and as much as people make of his weight alot of our heavyweight greats have unfortunately seen the same fate in their later days, Holmes, Foreman hell I hated seeing Tyson start coming to the ring in his 230's.
Warlord
QUOTE (pcraw @ Sep 12 2009, 12:29 PM) *
No problem Warlord. Good to see you back buddy. We've had our differences, but it's because we're both passionate about both sports.

I appreciate that, brother.

QUOTE
Toney is an all time favorite of mine and as much as people make of his weight alot of our heavyweight greats have unfortunately seen the same fate in their later days, Holmes, Foreman hell I hated seeing Tyson start coming to the ring in his 230's.

Agreed, especially about Tyson. He should've never gotten beyond the 220-221 mark. Holmes and (old) Foreman I think handled the weight better because they knew how to pace themselves. Old Tyson became a 4 round fighter and then, later, sadly, a one round fighter.

Toney's always had good stamina, even when he was out of shape, but pushing 40 he HAS to get serious about training. He could get away with a lack of discipline earlier in his career, and in previous weight classes, because of his talent. At heavyweight his strength is to outwork his opponents (like he did with Holyfield, and even Ruiz.) The only way he can do that now is train seriously.

217 is a GREAT sign, but it won't be the end-all, be-all. We'll know soon enough, I guess. I'm hoping like hell Toney can put something good together long enough to get one more big payday.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 12 2009, 05:45 AM) *
Thanks for that interview, Percy. James Toney is an all-time favorite of mine, and an all-time great too. I hope James can land a fight with Roy or Bernard before it's all said and done.

Hopkins/Toney would be great, even now, I think, and it's a fight alot of purists would be down with, me included. We may not ever get a chance to see that much skill in the same ring again for a long, long time.

You will on September 19th.
Warlord
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Sep 12 2009, 11:22 PM) *
You will on September 19th.

Gayweather vs. Marquez?

laugh.gif
D-MARV
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 12 2009, 11:25 PM) *
Gayweather vs. Marquez?

laugh.gif

LOL... The Gay person you're talking about is every bit as skillfull as Hopkins AND Toney. Marquez is a step behind AT best.
Warlord
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Sep 12 2009, 11:32 PM) *
LOL... The Gay person you're talking about is every bit as skillfull as Hopkins AND Toney. Marquez is a step behind AT best.

Time will tell, but Gayweather's career doesn't stand up to Hopkins's or Toney's at this point.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 13 2009, 12:57 AM) *
Time will tell, but Gayweather's career doesn't stand up to Hopkins's or Toney's at this point.

That's debatable.
Warlord
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Sep 13 2009, 06:34 AM) *
That's debatable.

By all means, debate it.
Method
QUOTE (pcraw @ Sep 12 2009, 12:26 PM) *
This is my last post on this topic because it seems Meth gets off on these back and forth post. But putting things in perspective he's what 41 years old and weighed 230 pounds in his last fight which was 8 to 9 months ago. I would hardly say he's out of shape. Does he still have some weight he could lose...sure, but far from out of shape. Hell I'm 29 and it's tough for me to lose 10 pounds in 9 months, so again much props. It's easy being Monday morning quaterback.


Understood.

Not sure where the Monday morning QB comment applies though. I made that comment pre fight. I see where you're coming from as far as last few fights' weight, compared to now. Im just lookin at him and I just think he could be EVEN MORE dangerous if he got in even better shape, is all.


...and Im not lookin to get in a back n' forth about it. Jussayin. OBVIOUSLY this is a great step in the right direction for James, and I hope he doesn't blow up between now and his next fight. I bet you he can continue to improve his boxing physique even more so.

AS for James' claim he returned to "old school training tactics", I am genuinely interested to know what exactly he did.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 13 2009, 05:33 PM) *
OBVIOUSLY this is a great step in the right direction for James, and I hope he doesn't blow up between now and his next fight. I bet you he can continue to improve his boxing physique even more so.


THAT is the key right there. James must stay committed to his controlling weight between fights at his age. He made a huge step for himself, but can he keep it up is the real question?
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