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Full Version: (Pic) James Toney at 217
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thehype
He's in better shape than Arreola...

King Eugene
Damn that underwear pic look so damn nasty. That dude look like he been through hell in his lifetime. I'm rooting for him though.
Spyder
He was definitely dedicated to this training camp. I hope he looks good tomorrow after all of that! lol
Method
QUOTE (King Eugene @ Sep 11 2009, 11:29 PM) *
Damn that underwear pic look so damn nasty. That dude look like he been through hell in his lifetime. I'm rooting for him though.

LOL @ the "muffin top" around his waist line. But like you said, I'm rootin for him. He still looks out of shape as fuck to me, though.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Toney versus The Scales. For me easily the upset of the year.
The CEO
Amazing...lol

Whatcha think he'll weigh tomorrow night..?

I'll say 237...an even 20 pounds of water weight...
Big Slim Sweet
James 'Light Out' Toney is the shit and always has been.
Keith
I see no difference in the pics. He looks fat and bitch-titttied. I think we all know he isnt a HW... which means he's at least 17 pounds overweight imo. If he was really "serious", Toney would go back down to CW.
1zz
I remember him getting slammed for weighing 217 for the Holy fight.

He's still too heavy.
D-MARV
LOL... He's still fat!
JLUVBABY
wow i stand corrected... i just said yesterday toney would never again see 220... lets see how he looks in the fight....
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Sep 12 2009, 10:47 AM) *
LOL... He's still fat!



But atleast he made an improvement in his weight, you got to start somewhere. If he stays busy, just maybe he can shed some more weight off in the near future.
JLUVBABY
my thing is at toneys age how much more does he really have to offer?.. less the weight or not...
Keith
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Sep 12 2009, 08:49 PM) *
my thing is at toneys age how much more does he really have to offer?.. less the weight or not...


Exactly, he's 41... what exactly he is hoping will happen?
Warlord
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Sep 12 2009, 07:49 PM) *
my thing is at toneys age how much more does he really have to offer?.. less the weight or not...

Skill fighters like Toney (and Hopkins) can still be competitive, even in their 40's. It's speed fighters like Roy Jones Jr. who have the most trouble in their mid to late 30's and beyond.

Age doesn't bother me with James, it's the amount of ring wars he's been in, especially in his last fight out with Peter. James has big balls to fight so far out of his weightclass with gorillas like Sam Peter, but it may be his undoing in the end.
Method
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 12 2009, 11:22 PM) *
Skill fighters like Toney (and Hopkins) can still be competitive, even in their 40's. It's speed fighters like Roy Jones Jr. who have the most trouble in their mid to late 30's and beyond.

Age doesn't bother me with James, it's the amount of ring wars he's been in, especially in his last fight out with Peter. James has big balls to fight so far out of his weightclass with gorillas like Sam Peter, but it may be his undoing in the end.

Agreed.

Also, in complete agreement w Lil Lightsout....while I think Toney could improve himself EVEN MORE, weight wise, thus further benefiting his performances and chances, I ALSO agree that coming in at 217 is a step in the right direction, and, you have to start somewhere.
Keith
I'm sorry, but being 41 is not a good thing regardless of what your style is. Everything diminishes the older you get...speed, stamina, power, killer instinct, you name it. Guys like X and Mosley still look sharp and have fallen off at a slower rate because they have stayed in such good shape through the years. The mind and body work together.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Keith @ Sep 13 2009, 05:53 PM) *
I'm sorry, but being 41 is not a good thing regardless of what your style is. Everything diminishes the older you get...speed, stamina, power, killer instinct, you name it. Guys like X and Mosley still look sharp and have fallen off at a slower rate because they have stayed in such good shape through the years. The mind and body work together.


Agreeing with Warlord and Method on this. Of course he is not the same fighter at 41, BUT him having his style and SKILLS will let him compete with ANYONE even at his age. And the weight loss is critical for him. Look at what say a Larry Holmes could do to those younger heavies when he was in his 40's. Look how he handled Mercer, and was very respectable against Holyfield. It was all because of his advanced skills, even at his older age. I am sure there are many other examples too, but Larry Holmes just popped in my head. Years back I used to trail at Holmes' gym, and while in his 50's, I personally would watch in awe as he would toy with these big strong young heavies. Sure they were no world beaters, but they were no slouches either. All cause of his skills and ring smarts.
Keith
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 13 2009, 06:06 PM) *
Agreeing with Warlord and Method on this. Of course he is not the same fighter at 41, BUT him having his style and SKILLS will let him compete with ANYONE even at his age. And the weight loss is critical for him. Look at what say a Larry Holmes could do to those younger heavies when he was in his 40's. Look how he handled Mercer, and was very respectable against Holyfield. It was all because of his advanced skills, even at his older age. I am sure there are many other examples too, but Larry Holmes just popped in my head. Years back I used to trail at Holmes' gym, and while in his 50's, I personally would watch in awe as he would toy with these big strong young heavies. Sure they were no world beaters, but they were no slouches either. All cause of his skills and ring smarts.


I'm not really sure we are disagreeing on anything. Skills and ring smarts work at any age, but if your body isnt following up then you probably arent doing so well.

I think Toney looks like he still has skill and ring smarts because he's fighting big slow HWs with little skill. Hypothetically speaking(real hypothetical because Toney will never see 200 again)... Do you think Toney gives any of the top CWs or LHWs problems right now because of his skill? Imo, he loses to just about all the top guys 175 to HW and its because his skills have slipped due to his age. Against big guys he gets outmanned and against smaller guys he gets outworked. He's in a similar situation as Chris Byrd. Chris Byrd looked like he had decent skill because he was facing HWs. When he went back down to 175 it looked pretty evident that his skill had slipped.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Keith @ Sep 13 2009, 08:30 PM) *
I'm not really sure we are disagreeing on anything. Skills and ring smarts work at any age, but if your body isnt following up then you probably arent doing so well.

I think Toney looks like he still has skill and ring smarts because he's fighting big slow HWs with little skill. Hypothetically speaking(real hypothetical because Toney will never see 200 again)... Do you think Toney gives any of the top CWs or LHWs problems right now because of his skill? Imo, he loses to just about all the top guys 175 to HW and its because his skills have slipped due to his age. Against big guys he gets outmanned and against smaller guys he gets outworked. He's in a similar situation as Chris Byrd. Chris Byrd looked like he had decent skill because he was facing HWs. When he went back down to 175 it looked pretty evident that his skill had slipped.


Yeah...Toney will never make 175 again. But if by some miracle he would make 200, I would bet he would beat ANY of the champs there right now. Just my opinion. Chris Byrd and Toney are totally different type fighters, where Byrd relied so much on his annoying speed when he was younger, Toney is a better all around complete fighter than Byrd. I wish Toney could work his way down to 200 to see what he could do there, but we all know he will stay at heavyweight.

Bottom line is we will find out soon enough(if Toney has anything left) if Toney gets in there with a better heavyweight, as long as Toney stays under 220, he will do fine.

As far as Byrd slipping, sure agree with you, but he obviosly lost way too much weight too soon.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Keith @ Sep 12 2009, 08:19 PM) *
Exactly, he's 41... what exactly he is hoping will happen?

I guess you forgot Archie Moore retired when he was 50(born in 1913 and last fought in 1963)..He only lost 4 fights in his last 10 years boxing..Archie Moore/Yvon Durelle 1 aka Corrales Castillo 1 if ya haven't seen it was when Archie was 45..When was the last time we saw a 45 year old guy do something like that though..Yet,Toney watched a lot of Archie and has a lot of his moves(why do ya think he very rarely gets hit clean?), so I could see him still being really good as long as he takes training serious and that the weight he had on his body before doesn't haunt him,which I think might happen..Skills,not abilities can keep you in boxing a lot longer and still be good for a lot longer time than guys who are willing to take punches..
Warlord
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 13 2009, 07:45 PM) *
I understand Keith's point. All he is saying that Toney and fighters like Hopkins are still retaining skill at their age and still being competitive. But being in their 40's isn't an advantage. It hasn't effected them no where near as much as other fighters, but it hasn't been an advantage for them. The older they get, the more disadvantage it will be. It's just a question on how long it will take before their skills deteriorate where ring smarts isn't enough to over come.

I don't think being 41 is ever an advantage, I just don't think it's as big a disadvantage for skill fighters like Toney as it is for speed fighters like Roy Jones.
Keith
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 13 2009, 09:55 PM) *
I don't think being 41 is ever an advantage, I just don't think it's as big a disadvantage for skill fighters like Toney as it is for speed fighters like Roy Jones.


Thats not a real good example... I cant see how Toney is doing any better then Jones. If they fought tomorrow, even with the weight disadvantage, I would place my money on Jones.
Keith
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Sep 13 2009, 09:38 PM) *
I guess you forgot Archie Moore retired when he was 50(born in 1913 and last fought in 1963)..He only lost 4 fights in his last 10 years boxing..Archie Moore/Yvon Durelle 1 aka Corrales Castillo 1 if ya haven't seen it was when Archie was 45..When was the last time we saw a 45 year old guy do something like that though..Yet,Toney watched a lot of Archie and has a lot of his moves(why do ya think he very rarely gets hit clean?), so I could see him still being really good as long as he takes training serious and that the weight he had on his body before doesn't haunt him,which I think might happen..Skills,not abilities can keep you in boxing a lot longer and still be good for a lot longer time than guys who are willing to take punches..


Its not like I'm saying old dudes cant fight. I just believe that physical prowess is equally important as skill and ring smarts. I dont buy the idea the only reason a guy is fighting at 40 or even 45 is because he has skill. I cant comment on Archie Moore, but Hopkins is still good because he still has some hand speed, power, solid chin, and decent movement. It not just because he is skilled and smart. The mind and body still have to work together.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Keith @ Sep 13 2009, 09:57 PM) *
Its not like I'm saying old dudes cant fight. I just believe that physical prowess is equally important as skill and ring smarts. I dont buy the idea the only reason a guy is fighting at 40 or even 45 is because he has skill. I cant comment on Archie Moore, but Hopkins is still good because he still has some hand speed, power, solid chin, and decent movement. It not just because he is skilled and smart. The mind and body still have to work together.

Skill is what allows a guy to fight longer since he doesn't have the accumulative effect from a lot of punches..Mike McCallum is a prime example of what I'm talking about..

How was Emmit Smith so great in football when he wasn't nearly the fastest or strongest..He was the smartest though..It seems crazy but if you have the knowledge and skill,abilities are only a bonus..

These are obviously my opinions which seem like logic to me but I do see how someone could argue otherwise..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 13 2009, 10:11 PM) *
But Hopkins has changed him style from 10 years or so ago. The reason was to help him still be competitive at this age. I think ring smarts has more to it in Hopkins case. Look at RJJ. He has better hand speed and power than Hopkins, maybe not the chin but look at the difference? Where would you say the difference is between the two? I think it's ring smarts.

I completely agree..
Warlord
QUOTE (Keith @ Sep 13 2009, 10:46 PM) *
Thats not a real good example... I cant see how Toney is doing any better then Jones.

Roy Jones is 5-4 in his last 9 fights, being brutally KO'd two of those times, and thoroughly dominated in the other 2.

James toney is 5-2, with 2 NC that should be rightful W's. (One for WBA world title.) Those two L's, along with those 5 (7) wins were in a weightclass James should never have been fighting in.

So yeah, I CAN see how Toney is doing better than Jones. He's not getting himself brutally KO'd, even into his 40's, the way Roy Jones is. Do you honestly think any verision of Roy Jones in the last 5 years goes the distance with Sam Peter? I do not.

Should I really make the Jones/Hopkins comparison, or can we leave it at that?

STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 14 2009, 07:05 AM) *
James toney is 5-2, with 2 NC that should be rightful W's. (One for WBA world title.) Those two L's, along with those 5 (7) wins were in a weightclass James should never have been fighting in.


So to clarify you think it is fine for a fighter to be caught using anabolic steroids twice & a fight where he headbutted his opponent causing a cut should be ruled a win?

He is 4-2-1 (2 NC) in his last 9 & one of those wins he wa scaught using anabolic steroids yet again. The man is a disgrace to the sport & should not in any way shape or form be held up as a example of how a fighter should behave.

The only old school thing about James is he must get pretty fucking shitty 1970's masking agents.
Warlord
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 14 2009, 04:09 AM) *
So to clarify you think it is fine for a fighter to be caught using anabolic steroids twice & a fight where he headbutted his opponent causing a cut should be ruled a win?

He is 4-2-1 (2 NC) in his last 9 & one of those wins he wa scaught using anabolic steroids yet again. The man is a disgrace to the sport & should not in any way shape or form be held up as a example of how a fighter should behave.

The only old school thing about James is he must get pretty fucking shitty 1970's masking agents.

I don't know the specific steroid James Toney was caught with, so I can't offer up any quantifiable defense for him. The only thing I remember is James was supposedly on some doctor prescribed medicine for an injury he had sustained during training which he and his doctor claimed caused the positive tests.

I don't really care one way or another, and I certainly never said James's behavior was exemplary. I simply stated that a skill fighter like Toney generally has more longevity in the sport than fighters who rely on speed or other natural talents.

I'm not sure why you guys don't get this. And I'm not even gonna bother to rehash the Toney/Rahwoman fiasco again. It's been done to death.

My original argument stands.
Keith
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 13 2009, 11:11 PM) *
But Hopkins has changed him style from 10 years or so ago. The reason was to help him still be competitive at this age. I think ring smarts has more to it in Hopkins case. Look at RJJ. He has better hand speed and power than Hopkins, maybe not the chin but look at the difference? Where would you say the difference is between the two? I think it's ring smarts.


I think their power is equal. So in my estimation they are equal physically. I agree that Hopkins has more ring smarts... but that always been the case. I dont think Hopkins is getting enough credit for how good he is physically even at his age.
Keith
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 14 2009, 03:05 AM) *
Roy Jones is 5-4 in his last 9 fights, being brutally KO'd two of those times, and thoroughly dominated in the other 2.

James toney is 5-2, with 2 NC that should be rightful W's. (One for WBA world title.) Those two L's, along with those 5 (7) wins were in a weightclass James should never have been fighting in.


Your right, it just all about the record. I love how you went back just far enough to include those brutal KO's and convenietly forget about the steroids.
Warlord
QUOTE (Keith @ Sep 14 2009, 06:27 AM) *
Your right, it just all about the record. I love how you went back just far enough to include those brutal KO's and convenietly forget about the steroids.

If steroids prevent KO's and brutal dominations, Roy Jones needs to get on that shit.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 14 2009, 11:05 AM) *
I don't know the specific steroid James Toney was caught with, so I can't offer up any quantifiable defense for him. The only thing I remember is James was supposedly on some doctor prescribed medicine for an injury he had sustained during training which he and his doctor claimed caused the positive tests.


Once I coul dunderstand but twice? The guy is a drugs cheat through & through. That is not knocking his skill level but saying he is a cheat to the bone.

QUOTE
Toney returned to action in May 2007 and won a ten round split decision over Danny Batchelder. Following the bout, Toney once again tested positive for boldenone and stanozolol
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 14 2009, 10:09 AM) *
The only old school thing about James is he must get pretty fucking shitty 1970's masking agents.


Maybe he felt he could mask them with several nauseating rolls of flab
BGv2.0
Anybody that defends JT's "run" at HW is purely delusional and simply a fan arguing for a favored fighter.

The only real, imressive win he ever had at HW was with Evander and due to the whole steroid issue there is a ? that hangs over that outing.

Wins over total nobody's like Booker and Greer really mean nothing. And everybody loves to talk about how he beat Ruiz....YET....those same people call Ruiz a sham and disgrace to the sport in other threads.

JT is 7-2-1-1 with 2 wins via KO in a HW career that has spanned 6 years. His win over Holyfield is questionable due to possible steriod use. His win over Ruiz was turned to a NC due to failing a drug test, Total nobodies like Guinn, Batcheldor and Booker took him the distance. He came in fat and out of shape in just about all of his fights. And Fres beat him and got jobbed.

That pretty much is a clear picture of a crappy, uneventful run at HW.

I highly doubt he will ever get anything more at 41....skills or not....slim or not.

He needs to shut his mouth for once and step in with the real threats at HW....the Klits, even Haye or Valuev at this point.....because his old song and dance SHOULD be getting old by now. Personally due to the sheer size disadvantge to the 3 giants...I think he gets his block knocked off, even by the dredfully terrible Valuev. And I think Haye would eat him up as well.

But to have him jump back in and be nothing more than mouth......it's just getting old. It's been old.

I wish they would feed him to Wlad or Vitali on HBO to have the circus ended in brutal fashion.

singletrack
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 14 2009, 02:06 PM) *
The only real, imressive win he ever had at HW was with Evander and due to the whole steroid issue there is a ? that hangs over that outing.


Ehhh...I have no sympathy for Holyfield - he's been a long time juicer himself.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (singletrack @ Sep 14 2009, 01:52 PM) *
Ehhh...I have no sympathy for Holyfield - he's been a long time juicer himself.


That's never been proven. Now, personally I agree....but unlike JT who failed a drug test.....the same has never occured, not once during Holyfield's entire career.
Method
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 14 2009, 02:57 PM) *
That's never been proven. Now, personally I agree....but unlike JT who failed a drug test.....the same has never occurred, not once during Holyfield's entire career.

Holy never failed drug tests, but his shipping address info was found in a major suppliers computer records. Aliases as well. I'm jussayin.
singletrack
QUOTE (Method @ Sep 14 2009, 03:07 PM) *
Holy never failed drug tests, but his shipping address info was found in a major suppliers computer records. Aliases as well. I'm jussayin.


He also trained with Lee Haney. I'm not big on guilt by association, but that, along with a lot of other circumstancial evidence would certainly suggest that he's been juicing for quite a while.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (singletrack @ Sep 14 2009, 02:50 PM) *
He also trained with Lee Haney. I'm not big on guilt by association, but that, along with a lot of other circumstancial evidence would certainly suggest that he's been juicing for quite a while.


Which is exactly why I say I personally agree with that assumption.....but again, there are no failed drug tests to prove it being so.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 14 2009, 02:06 PM) *
Anybody that defends JT's "run" at HW is purely delusional and simply a fan arguing for a favored fighter.

The only real, imressive win he ever had at HW was with Evander and due to the whole steroid issue there is a ? that hangs over that outing.

Wins over total nobody's like Booker and Greer really mean nothing. And everybody loves to talk about how he beat Ruiz....YET....those same people call Ruiz a sham and disgrace to the sport in other threads.

JT is 7-2-1-1 with 2 wins via KO in a HW career that has spanned 6 years. His win over Holyfield is questionable due to possible steriod use. His win over Ruiz was turned to a NC due to failing a drug test, Total nobodies like Guinn, Batcheldor and Booker took him the distance. He came in fat and out of shape in just about all of his fights. And Fres beat him and got jobbed.

That pretty much is a clear picture of a crappy, uneventful run at HW.

I highly doubt he will ever get anything more at 41....skills or not....slim or not.

He needs to shut his mouth for once and step in with the real threats at HW....the Klits, even Haye or Valuev at this point.....because his old song and dance SHOULD be getting old by now. Personally due to the sheer size disadvantge to the 3 giants...I think he gets his block knocked off, even by the dredfully terrible Valuev. And I think Haye would eat him up as well.

But to have him jump back in and be nothing more than mouth......it's just getting old. It's been old.

I wish they would feed him to Wlad or Vitali on HBO to have the circus ended in brutal fashion.



Hater.
singletrack
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 14 2009, 04:09 PM) *
Which is exactly why I say I personally agree with that assumption.....but again, there are no failed drug tests to prove it being so.


I know you agree; read your post : ) Just adding another fact for some that may not know...
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 15 2009, 12:35 AM) *
People focus too much on steroids. Not saying they are right, but I don't think it's a main reason why he would have beaten Ruiz or something. They give you an edge, they don't turn you into superman. Just go ask Fernando Vargas.


That edge may be all you need to win.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 12 2009, 11:22 PM) *
Age doesn't bother me with James, it's the amount of ring wars he's been in, especially in his last fight out with Peter. James has big balls to fight so far out of his weightclass with gorillas like Sam Peter, but it may be his undoing in the end.

It's not balls that keeps in in that weightclass, it's laziness.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 14 2009, 04:06 PM) *
Hater.


Not a "hater".....just a realist.

HONESTLY.....despite the fact you are a fan....you you REALLY believe JT would have a snowball's chance in hell to beat any of the current Champions?

The Size and age factors are just to big.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 15 2009, 04:47 PM) *
Not a "hater".....just a realist.

HONESTLY.....despite the fact you are a fan....you you REALLY believe JT would have a snowball's chance in hell to beat any of the current Champions?

The Size and age factors are just to big.

yeah, i think his last actual quality win was against jirov
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Sep 15 2009, 04:47 PM) *
Not a "hater".....just a realist.

HONESTLY.....despite the fact you are a fan....you you REALLY believe JT would have a snowball's chance in hell to beat any of the current Champions?

The Size and age factors are just to big.



Call me crazy or biased. Toney below 220, around 210 for my liking, would beat Valuev EASILY. He would frustrated the hell out of the robot Vitali Klit and decision him too. I do not think James could beat Wlad, UNLESS he got some heavy leather on him early and Ko'd him. Toney in recent years has looked like shit for the most part, THAT Toney would not beat any of the Champs(well maybe Valuev, he is absolute garbage).

If Toney came down to 200, I would also pick him to beat any of the cruiserweight champs too. Maybe I am being too positive, but I truly think if he loses a lot of weight(not like Byrd), he will perform alot better. I have no proof for these statements, I am just basing it on his tremendous skills. All of his recent performances are poor mostly due to being fat and severely overweight. He took a good step in the right direction last time out, and hopefully we will see if he has anything to offer. If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it. IMO it has everything to do with his weight and conditioning. You win the fight in your preparation BEFORE the fight, not the night of the fight.

I have more to say, but off to gym. Oh, I was kidding about the "hater" comment. We all got our opinions, and though I do not totally agree with ya, I see what you are saying about James. I am not a bling hugger.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 15 2009, 05:03 PM) *
Call me crazy or biased. Toney below 220, around 210 for my liking, would beat Valuev EASILY. He would frustrated the hell out of the robot Vitali Klit and decision him too. I do not think James could beat Wlad, UNLESS he got some heavy leather on him early and Ko'd him. Toney in recent years has looked like shit for the most part, THAT Toney would not beat any of the Champs(well maybe Valuev, he is absolute garbage).

If Toney came down to 200, I would also pick him to beat any of the cruiserweight champs too. Maybe I am being too positive, but I truly think if he loses a lot of weight(not like Byrd), he will perform alot better. I have no proof for these statements, I am just basing it on his tremendous skills. All of his recent performances are poor mostly due to being fat and severely overweight. He took a good step in the right direction last time out, and hopefully we will see if he has anything to offer. If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it. IMO it has everything to do with his weight and conditioning. You win the fight in your preparation BEFORE the fight, not the night of the fight.

I have more to say, but off to gym. Oh, I was kidding about the "hater" comment. We all got our opinions, and though I do not totally agree with ya, I see what you are saying about James. I am not a bling hugger.


You are crazy. (as per request) lol

No I think you are rooted in the middle both of being a super fan but also realizing the toll the weight put on him. The one thing missing from your last post is addressing the age.

Even at 200....do you think that at 41 he has anything to really offer. Don't get me wrong....I defend fighters to keep fighting on....as I have always supported Evander continuing on....but Evander though on the smaller side, is much taller and all around bigger than JT and at the very least still offers a decent punch.

I think at 200 lbs....even the dredful Valuev would push him back with thudding jabs due to his short stature.

I think any of those huge HWs would just manhandle him....he MIGHT fair well with Valuev...should he use movement as Holy did and Valuev again decided to not do a single thing....but that is about the only shot I would give him.
rusty_trombone
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 15 2009, 06:03 PM) *
Call me crazy or biased. Toney below 220, around 210 for my liking, would beat Valuev EASILY. He would frustrated the hell out of the robot Vitali Klit and decision him too. I do not think James could beat Wlad, UNLESS he got some heavy leather on him early and Ko'd him. Toney in recent years has looked like shit for the most part, THAT Toney would not beat any of the Champs(well maybe Valuev, he is absolute garbage).

If Toney came down to 200, I would also pick him to beat any of the cruiserweight champs too. Maybe I am being too positive, but I truly think if he loses a lot of weight(not like Byrd), he will perform alot better. I have no proof for these statements, I am just basing it on his tremendous skills. All of his recent performances are poor mostly due to being fat and severely overweight. He took a good step in the right direction last time out, and hopefully we will see if he has anything to offer. If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it. IMO it has everything to do with his weight and conditioning. You win the fight in your preparation BEFORE the fight, not the night of the fight.

I have more to say, but off to gym. Oh, I was kidding about the "hater" comment. We all got our opinions, and though I do not totally agree with ya, I see what you are saying about James. I am not a bling hugger.

i think he may have a shot against valuev, because valuev is just that shitty. But Vitali, he's never fought a fighter at heavyweight, with that much of a size advantage that knows how to use it. He would take a serious beating from Vitali, remember he's not a heavyweight, he's just a fat dude.
D-MARV
Toney wouldn't beat guys like Tony Thompson and Povetkin. He has NO chance of beating any of the champs.
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