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Jack 1000
On the positive side, we know of Floyd Mayweather's superb boxing ability and ring generalship. However, it is possible that we may never see the best of Floyd Mayweather for his refusal to fight top Welterweights in his own weight class, for whatever reasons. That's not important. But assuming that Floyd was able to somehow fight the big foursome of the 80's how would he do against them?

Don't just say in your response _________ would kick Floyd's ass or Floyd would kick________'s ass. Instead do an actual scenario where Floyd would actually fight these guys. Because Mayweather never fought in the 15-round era, if I give a decision as a result, in my analysis I am assuming the fight would be 12 rounds.

Benitez: A good tactical chess-match with each boxer having their moments in a tough to score fight. But Floyd's just a little quicker on most of the exchanges to take a close unanimous decision.

Leonard: Floyd takes the early rounds with a slight lead as Leonard waits patiently for his openings. Leonard's combinations and experience in the later rounds allow Floyd to experience deep water and have to deal with pressure that Floyd never has experienced before Leonard, behind on the cards, rallies to win late: Leonard TKO 12.

Hearns: That all depends on if Mayweather could take Hitman's punch early If he could not I would take Hearns by KO in 6. If Mayweather could survive, Hearns for all his punching power and ring generalship was not known for great stamina. But I could see Hitman taking the decision because Hearns would have too much of an early lead for Mayweather to overcome. Leonard is really the only welterweight in this group that stops the great Tommy Hearns.

Duran: Again, which Duran shows up? If it's the Duran from the first Leonard fight, a match where I think Roberto was invincible that night, Duran TKO 8. (Floyd maybe quitting in the corner.) If it's the Duran from New Orleans and "No-Mas" the rolls are reversed with Floyd making Duran quit in 8 like Leonard did in their second fight.

In some of the 80's Welters, I would pick Whitaker over Floyd by close tactical split decision, but Floyd getting a split decision in a rematch. Floyd would win easily over Donald Curry by a late stoppage (TKO 10) and would beat the shit out of Mark Breland (TKO 5). Floyd over Marlon Starling in a pretty easy unanimous decision and a TKO in 8 over Lloyd Honneygun.

Jack

JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Sep 26 2009, 02:44 PM) *
On the positive side, we know of Floyd Mayweather's superb boxing ability and ring generalship. However, it is possible that we may never see the best of Floyd Mayweather for his refusal to fight top Welterweights in his own weight class, for whatever reasons. That's not important. But assuming that Floyd was able to somehow fight the big foursome of the 80's how would he do against them?

Don't just say in your response _________ would kick Floyd's ass or Floyd would kick________'s ass. Instead do an actual scenario where Floyd would actually fight these guys. Because Mayweather never fought in the 15-round era, if I give a decision as a result, in my analysis I am assuming the fight would be 12 rounds.

Benitez: A good tactical chess-match with each boxer having their moments in a tough to score fight. But Floyd's just a little quicker on most of the exchanges to take a close unanimous decision.

Leonard: Floyd takes the early rounds with a slight lead as Leonard waits patiently for his openings. Leonard's combinations and experience in the later rounds allow Floyd to experience deep water and have to deal with pressure that Floyd never has experienced before Leonard, behind on the cards, rallies to win late: Leonard TKO 12.

Hearns: That all depends on if Mayweather could take Hitman's punch early If he could not I would take Hearns by KO in 6. If Mayweather could survive, Hearns for all his punching power and ring generalship was not known for great stamina. But I could see Hitman taking the decision because Hearns would have too much of an early lead for Mayweather to overcome. Leonard is really the only welterweight in this group that stops the great Tommy Hearns.

Duran: Again, which Duran shows up? If it's the Duran from the first Leonard fight, a match where I think Roberto was invincible that night, Duran TKO 8. (Floyd maybe quitting in the corner.) If it's the Duran from New Orleans and "No-Mas" the rolls are reversed with Floyd making Duran quit in 8 like Leonard did in their second fight.

In some of the 80's Welters, I would pick Whitaker over Floyd by close tactical split decision, but Floyd getting a split decision in a rematch. Floyd would win easily over Donald Curry by a late stoppage (TKO 10) and would beat the shit out of Mark Breland (TKO 5). Floyd over Marlon Starling in a pretty easy unanimous decision and a TKO in 8 over Lloyd Honneygun.

Jack


i agree with all of your thoughts except i think leonard is just a diffrent breed of fighter than the guys fighting today... those guys where hard... i think leonard starts out boxing on equal terms with pbf and eventually goes on to start out boxing him and going in for the kill in the later rounds... leonard ko pbf between rounds 10-12 in a pretty one sided affair... leonard was at least an equal if not better boxer than pbf with good ring generalship and smarts with a solid defense as well, the diffrence in the fight would be ray leonard is a solid great welterweight and a full fledge welter that would prove to be able to fight as high as light heavy later in his career... also ray had a solid punch for a welterweight something it seems pbf might be lacking...
True-Boxing-Fan
Who knows how PBF would do against the greats of past. All I know is, he needs to fight the greats of this era first.
True-Boxing-Fan
Against guys like Leonard, Duran, Hearns or Benitez. He's getting hurt.
thehype
None of those fights would have ever happened because Floyd would have demanded the lion's share of the purse.

I think he loses to Leonard and Hearns, but I can see him outsmarting Duran and Benitez. All good fights though...I just hope he finds guys in this era that will give him good fight. I have a bad feeling that he won't though...even if he does fight Manny, Cotto or Shane.
MarzB
I have a slightly different opinion.

Tommy had excellent/underated boxing skills which are very prevalent in his fight with Leonard and Benitez. Floyd would be forced to fight and Tommy's jab would keep Floyd at bay and it would be very hard for Floyd to roll that right hand. Tommy ONLY had trouble with brawlers(or guys that could) and unorthodox guys. I've seen enough of Hearns sparring also to know boxer type style was something he had little problem with. I know that Tommy's loss to Leonard was part Leonard and part he was overtrained and just exhausted. Tommy by decision 116-112.

Leonard, very interesting fight. Someone who can match Floyd not only in handspeed but footspeed. The welterweight Floyd what I hate about him is he doesn't throw that many combinations as he used to. I believe he did in the Judah fight and I may need to watch that one again but he's not gonna beat Ray without throwing combos. Floyd has the defensive advantage but one thing I noticed with Ray Leonard is he mainly circles left. He rarely went to his right. Floyd I think is smart enough to recognize this nuance and he would force Ray to that right side which would nulify a lot of Ray's attack. Ray nor can Floyd potshot and move to win because the speed difference is a wash.

Benitez, ah one of my absolute favorites. Floyd would win this great defensive battle though by going to Benitez's body and trying to break him down that way.

Donald Curry,lol. I have a funny Donald Curry story if anyone wants to hear I'll post it. I really liked this guy but I think Floyd stops him late.

Marlon Starling the ORIGINAL "MAGIC MAN". This is a lot tougher than I think most would believe. Marlon was another gifted defensive fighter but his defense is more Winky Wright based with a high guard. Floyd would win this fight by pot shotting and moving but if he's unable to do that he's in trouble.
-- --------------------------------------------
Now that said, I have someone who I never heard of before (I thought I had a good grasp of boxing history) who is by far the best defensive fighter I've EVER SEEN. Better than Pep, Floyd, Benitez, Toney, etc. I know thats a huge leap. I've been watching his youtube clips and am in serious awe of this guys defense. Now I know we were talking about Welters but this guys was a junior welterweight 140 and Floyd did indeed fight in that division. Floyd would have had big time problems trying to land against this guy and his name is

Nicolino Locche.

His defense is based on head/torso movement, slipping, rolling shots and he also has that philly shell a'la Floyd when he's on the ropes. He counters off the miss also.

Here's some highlights of his career. Someone created a tape of their own collection of the defensive wizards (pep, sweet pea, etc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ct2jCu7y9Y

Locche starts at the 3:24 point.
salvador
QUOTE (True-Boxing-Fan @ Sep 26 2009, 05:08 PM) *
Who knows how PBF would do against the greats of past. All I know is, he needs to fight the greats of this era first.


Exactly. We'd have a much better idea of how Floyd would do against Hearns if he'd fight Williams, against SRL if he'd fight Mosley, or against Duran if he'd fight Marg. I suppose if he fights Pac we'll have a better idea of how he would have fared against Wilfredo Gomez.

What we do know for absolutely damn sure is that Floyd is a natural ww, as his body was unable to get down to 144, so any bullshit about him being a small ww is yesterday's argument.
D-MARV
QUOTE (salvador @ Sep 26 2009, 06:23 PM) *
Exactly. We'd have a much better idea of how Floyd would do against Hearns if he'd fight Williams, against SRL if he'd fight Mosley, or against Duran if he'd fight Marg. I suppose if he fights Pac we'll have a better idea of how he would have fared against Wilfredo Gomez.

What we do know for absolutely damn sure is that Floyd is a natural ww, as his body was unable to get down to 144, so any bullshit about him being a small ww is yesterday's argument.

Floyd beating Marg over 12 rounds wouldn't tell us shit about how he would fair against Duran.

Duran was an animal and in my opinion one of the top 3 G.O.A.T. Duran's relentless attack combined with his superior boxing skills would be too much for lil Floyd.
salvador
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Sep 26 2009, 05:40 PM) *
Floyd beating Marg over 12 rounds wouldn't tell us shit about how he would fair against Duran.

Duran was an animal and in my opinion one of the top 3 G.O.A.T. Duran's relentless attack combined with his superior boxing skills would be too much for lil Floyd.


We'd have a better idea of how he'd do against Duran by fighting Marg than by any other guy he's fought, even Castillo. Marg's a volume puncher with heavy hands who goes to the body relentlessly and who has a great chin. He might not be an all time great, but style wise it's as good a comparison as I can think of.

Duran's my favorite all time fighter, but if you look at the second and third fights with SRL, Duran, like Marg, could be outboxed by a master/speedster like Floyd or SRL. I'd take Duran (possibly by ko) at 135 and Floyd by decision at 147.

Again, we'll never know because Floyd ain't going to fight anyone who will test him as long as he can make money fighting smaller/easier opponents.



D-MARV
QUOTE (salvador @ Sep 26 2009, 06:56 PM) *
We'd have a better idea of how he'd do against Duran by fighting Marg than by any other guy he's fought, even Castillo. Marg's a volume puncher with heavy hands who goes to the body relentlessly and who has a great chin. He might not be an all time great, but style wise it's as good a comparison as I can think of.

Duran's my favorite all time fighter, but if you look at the second and third fights with SRL, Duran, like Marg, could be outboxed by a master/speedster like Floyd or SRL. I'd take Duran (possibly by ko) at 135 and Floyd by decision at 147.

Again, we'll never know because Floyd ain't going to fight anyone who will test him as long as he can make money fighting smaller/easier opponents.

I think Floyd will step it up. He's waiting on Pacquiao now... But I expect to see a Floyd-Mosley fight next year.
PR316
I can see him beating Benitez because PBF is faster and more skilled IMO than "El Radar" who was an amazing fighter in his own right..


With Duran, I think it depends which Duran shows up. The "Montreal Duran" IMO wins a clear UD against Mayweather in a good fight. The 2nd Duran who fought against Leonard IMO loses via UD assuming he doesn't pull a "No Mas"...


Leonard IMO was too big and too strong. Add to that he was probably faster than Mayweather has ever been and with power. I think Leonard either stops him late or wins a clear decision. And this is no knock on PBF its just that this is Leonard we are talking about.


With Hearns I think it all depends on Floyd getting and staying inside to hopefully wear down Tommy but its easier said than done. I think Hearns wins the decision in a fight very similar to Tommy's fight with Benitez. Hearns via UD.
salvador
QUOTE (PR316 @ Sep 26 2009, 07:23 PM) *
With Duran, I think it depends which Duran shows up. The "Montreal Duran" IMO wins a clear UD against Mayweather in a good fight. The 2nd Duran who fought against Leonard IMO loses via UD assuming he doesn't pull a "No Mas"...


The entire point of the first fight between Duran-SRL was that SRL DECIDED to stand toe to toe with Duran even though he clearly could have outboxed him all day (as we learned from the second and third fights). SRL wanted to prove his toughness by making his stand against the best body puncher in the world AND HE DID IT. That was SRL's finest moment, and I can't help but believe that the hardcore fans at the time fell in love with the guy that night after probably hating on him for being a pretty boy boxer/dancer gold medalist. I wouldn't know because I wasn't there, but I kind of think I'm right.

At 135 Duran's power to the body would probably have been too much for Leonard (p4p), but at 147 Duran was a less powerful force.

The thing about Floyd is that he probably would have found a way to duck Duran at 135. "Them's slave wages! I ain't no slave!"







Fitz
I find it annoying when people talk about Leonard-Duran I and II and say that Duran couldn't be beaten that night and chalk the second fight all up to Duran not showing up.
Like salvador said, in the first fight Leonard put up a very good and brave performance but didn't fight the fight he should have. He fought with him, not boxed him. The first fight was close, I don't see why Leonard couldn't beat that version either if he boxed rather than stand toe to toe. It's as if people don't even consider the possibility that Leonard fought the wrong fight but still a good fight in their first encounter.
kidbazooka1
I can see Floyd beating Curry and Starling and maybe squeak by Hearns but only if he can ge through his reach other than that thats it.

Leonard beats Floyd by Decision so does Benitez and Duran at his best which was arguably the 1st Leonard fight would ruine Floyd in brutal fashion.
D-MARV
The first Duran-Leonard fight was Leonard's pride standing in the way. I thought he pretty much proved that in the 2nd fight.
JD
Yeah...there is no scenario in which I see Floyd beating Hearns at 147.
salvador
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 26 2009, 09:30 PM) *
I find it annoying when people talk about Leonard-Duran I and II and say that Duran couldn't be beaten that night and chalk the second fight all up to Duran not showing up.
Like salvador said, in the first fight Leonard put up a very good and brave performance but didn't fight the fight he should have. He fought with him, not boxed him. The first fight was close, I don't see why Leonard couldn't beat that version either if he boxed rather than stand toe to toe. It's as if people don't even consider the possibility that Leonard fought the wrong fight but still a good fight in their first encounter.


I've never imagined that anyone ever saw that first fight in any other way other than: "yeah, Leonard could have won it pretty easily if he'd boxed but he decided to be a gangster instead and lost a close decision".

Is there any other way to see that first fight in retrospect?

But Duran had moved up in weight to make some money. At 135, p4p, I'd really have to go with Duran to the body over 15 rounds.
D-MARV
QUOTE (JD @ Sep 26 2009, 10:36 PM) *
Yeah...there is no scenario in which I see Floyd beating Hearns at 147.

Heans would be a stylistic nightmare for Floyd. Floyd doesn't throw enough to keep Hearns honest.
Fitz
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Sep 27 2009, 12:36 PM) *
The first Duran-Leonard fight was Leonard's pride standing in the way. I thought he pretty much proved that in the 2nd fight.


Pretty much. Leonard just frustrated him and made him quit through sheer frustration. I don't think he would have always won in that manner, but it was a sign with a different game plan he could have had a different result.
Though that said, the first fight still makes Leonard great despite the result and gave people a new found appreciation. They both brought out the best in each other that night, Leonard just went about it with pride.
King Eugene
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Sep 26 2009, 10:41 PM) *
Heans would be a stylistic nightmare for Floyd. Floyd doesn't throw enough to keep Hearns honest.

Just like Paul Williams!
JD
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Sep 26 2009, 10:41 PM) *
Heans would be a stylistic nightmare for Floyd. Floyd doesn't throw enough to keep Hearns honest.


Yep...and there is no way he would take the chances necessary to get to Hearns. I think Tommy would cause Floyd nightmares with that jab, and keep him real defensive with that right.
salvador
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 26 2009, 09:43 PM) *
Though that said, the first fight still makes Leonard great despite the result and gave people a new found appreciation. They both brought out the best in each other that night, Leonard just went about it with pride.


And that's the entire difference between Floyd and SRL and why it's amateurish for anyone to ever compare Floyd to SRL. It's a different thing altogether.
The Original MrFactor
He would never fight them. He'd opt for guys like Hector Camacho. This cat wont even fight the greats in his weight class of THIS era...
STEVENSKI
Here is my take not as a hater but a honest appraisal of the "big 3".

Duran at 135 or 147 would beat Floyd fairly comfortably. He was fast & highly skilled with good but not great power. His aggression & footspeed would prove a lethal combination for Floyd & I can see Duran slipping his way inside & cracking Floyd every which way be it on the arms, ribs or head it would all take it's toll. If Floyd tried any of his roughhouse tactics such as his elbows that would be a huge mistake as we all know Duran was not afraid of getting dirty as fuck. Floyd would have his moments no doubt but overall Duran either stops him or wins a comfortable decision 9-3.

Leonard at 147 would destroy Floyd no more no less. Bigger stronger & a much much bigger puncher than Floyd. He had the speed & skills to match it with Floyd any way he chose & after a round or two it would be clear that only one man would emerge victorious. Leonards combination punching & power would wear Floyd down & by round 6 Floyd's legs would not be carrying him too well & Leonard would be hitting him with heavy combinations. Floyd falls within 8.

Hearns at 147 is a rangy huge hitting puncher that could box beautifully when he chose to. Hearns was tall & fought tall when he was on his toes, I doubt Floyd comes at Hearns & attempts to use his footspeed to back away from Hearns. Hearns moves forward behind his stellar jab & drops his right like a H bomb. This does not last long maybe 3 or 4 rounds at best.

This is not to say FLoyd is not a talented or potentially great fighter but against the greats of 147 he just does not have the tools to beat them as he is just too small. It would be better to compare him to lightweights as that IMO is his best suited weight class due to his more even size & relative power.

Putting him in with guys like Walker, DLH, Trinidad, Galivan, Griffith, Basilio & guys of that calibre would all result in losses for Floyd. As I said best to compare him to lightweights as he is too small for the true 147lb greats.
PR316
QUOTE (King Eugene @ Sep 27 2009, 02:45 AM) *
Just like Paul Williams!


P-Will is a stylistic nightmare for anybody but in no way like Hearns.


Tommy had a long, stiff jab, a killer right cross, hand speed to boot, and an amazing ability to move and use angles. Hearns just has too many physical advantages for Floyd. But its not just Floyd. There are many welterweights that wouldn't be able to beat this guy. Hearns had too many tools for sure.


P-Will is tall and rangy, with good hand speed and movement for a big man. But I think he's so open to counters that Mayweather would be able to take advantage. Whereas a guy like Hearns had crippling power, P-Will doesn't and he sometimes slaps with his shots, similar to Calzaghe. This isn't a knock on Paul. Its just that despite his height and size, his flaws are too glaring for a skilled fighter of Floyd's caliber to "not" take advantage of IMO.
PR316
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 27 2009, 12:41 PM) *
Here is my take not as a hater but a honest appraisal of the "big 3".

Duran at 135 or 147 would beat Floyd fairly comfortably. He was fast & highly skilled with good but not great power. His aggression & footspeed would prove a lethal combination for Floyd & I can see Duran slipping his way inside & cracking Floyd every which way be it on the arms, ribs or head it would all take it's toll. If Floyd tried any of his roughhouse tactics such as his elbows that would be a huge mistake as we all know Duran was not afraid of getting dirty as fuck. Floyd would have his moments no doubt but overall Duran either stops him or wins a comfortable decision 9-3.

Leonard at 147 would destroy Floyd no more no less. Bigger stronger & a much much bigger puncher than Floyd. He had the speed & skills to match it with Floyd any way he chose & after a round or two it would be clear that only one man would emerge victorious. Leonards combination punching & power would wear Floyd down & by round 6 Floyd's legs would not be carrying him too well & Leonard would be hitting him with heavy combinations. Floyd falls within 8.

Hearns at 147 is a rangy huge hitting puncher that could box beautifully when he chose to. Hearns was tall & fought tall when he was on his toes, I doubt Floyd comes at Hearns & attempts to use his footspeed to back away from Hearns. Hearns moves forward behind his stellar jab & drops his right like a H bomb. This does not last long maybe 3 or 4 rounds at best.

This is not to say FLoyd is not a talented or potentially great fighter but against the greats of 147 he just does not have the tools to beat them as he is just too small. It would be better to compare him to lightweights as that IMO is his best suited weight class due to his more even size & relative power.

Putting him in with guys like Walker, DLH, Trinidad, Galivan, Griffith, Basilio & guys of that calibre would all result in losses for Floyd. As I said best to compare him to lightweights as he is too small for the true 147lb greats.


I think Floyd could have beaten either Tito or Oscar honestly even though he'd have tons of trouble. Walker and Griffith beat him for sure. Gavilan-Mayweather to me would be a "pick em". Basilio got hit alot and he would cut so he could get stopped off that alone but he could wear Floyd down if he got him in deep water where Carmen loved to fight.
Lil-lightsout
Honestly...we should see more of Floyd against today's top welterweights first. If Floyd beats say a Mosley, Cotto, Clottey, Berto, etc, we could have a better measuring stick to see what he really can or can't do. Floyd really lack's killer instinct and power at 147. Right now, I could not see him beating any of them. I mean look what Castillo's pressure did to him at 135. Now imagine what Duran would do to him. Ray had way more passion and power, SRL would probably just decision him. Hearns was an underated boxer and could hang with Floyd, I think eventually cause of Tommy's freakish power he would stop Floyd late. Floyd was hesitant of JMM's welterweight power(haha), could you imagine Floyd having to deal with Hearns power?
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (PR316 @ Sep 27 2009, 09:41 PM) *
I think Floyd could have beaten either Tito or Oscar honestly even though he'd have tons of trouble.


I look at how he did against a 154 DLH who was a shadow of his welterweight best & the trouble he had adjusting especially when DLh was doubling up the jab. Take that back 10 years when DLH was firing at welter & I think he would get PBF in serious trouble hooking of the jab. Same with Tito although PBF has a better chance of outboxing Felix I think it would be a matter of time til he caught him with something big.


QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 27 2009, 10:59 PM) *
Now imagine what Duran would do to him. Ray had way more passion and power, SRL would probably just decision him. Hearns was an underated boxer and could hang with Floyd, I think eventually cause of Tommy's freakish power he would stop Floyd late. Floyd was hesitant of JMM's welterweight power(haha), could you imagine Floyd having to deal with Hearns power?



I see Leonard stopping Floyd with ease. Floyd would have no advantage over SRL in any area whatsoever. Maybe a very slight edge in speed but that would be it. Prime Ray threw hard crunching combinations off the jab. In Floyd's own words "easy work".

As for hearns stopping him late I think it would take 2 rounds for Tommy to find his range & once he did it would only take one or two shots to take Floyd's head off.

As I have said previously he is just not big enough to hang with the all time elite of welter. Stick him at 135 & he will have a good scrap with anyone.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 27 2009, 07:40 PM) *
I see Leonard stopping Floyd with ease. Floyd would have no advantage over SRL in any area whatsoever. Maybe a very slight edge in speed but that would be it. Prime Ray threw hard crunching combinations off the jab. In Floyd's own words "easy work".

As for hearns stopping him late I think it would take 2 rounds for Tommy to find his range & once he did it would only take one or two shots to take Floyd's head off.

As I have said previously he is just not big enough to hang with the all time elite of welter. Stick him at 135 & he will have a good scrap with anyone.



I am not disagreeing with you, I was just giving Floyd some props due to his good defense. I just figured maybe he would have been able to last longer for that reason. Bottom line is that we need to see him in with today's top welterweights first to see how he does.
D-MARV
LMAO... Floyd's defense is all time greatness... He ain't getting KO'd in 3 or 4 rounds. Hearns wins clear decision.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Sep 28 2009, 12:24 AM) *
LMAO... Floyd's defense is all time greatness... He ain't getting KO'd in 3 or 4 rounds. Hearns wins clear decision.


His defense would not matter Hearns would be popping that jab all night & as soon as he drops that right hand it will be game over. Floyd would not be able to take the heat guys like Hearns & Leonard bring.
JD
I am not sure Hearns doesn't bang Floyd out of there being that he would have no fear of what would be coming back at him.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (JD @ Sep 28 2009, 02:27 AM) *
I am not sure Hearns doesn't bang Floyd out of there being that he would have no fear of what would be coming back at him.


Exactly. What possible tool could Floyd use to gain & keep Tommys respect? Fighting off the back foot would play right into Tommy's hands & 1-2.

Look at what happened when Leonard fought Hearns the first time. When Leonard was backing away he was getting pumped badly it was only when he said "damm i am getting flogged here" that he changed tactic & went at Tommy on the inside. Difference being SRL has much better power than Floyd at 147.
PR316
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 28 2009, 12:40 AM) *
I look at how he did against a 154 DLH who was a shadow of his welterweight best & the trouble he had adjusting especially when DLh was doubling up the jab. Take that back 10 years when DLH was firing at welter & I think he would get PBF in serious trouble hooking of the jab. Same with Tito although PBF has a better chance of outboxing Felix I think it would be a matter of time til he caught him with something big.





I see Leonard stopping Floyd with ease. Floyd would have no advantage over SRL in any area whatsoever. Maybe a very slight edge in speed but that would be it. Prime Ray threw hard crunching combinations off the jab. In Floyd's own words "easy work".



I can see that argument. But for all of Oscar's boxing prowess, every good boxer he faced outjabbed him. Old Pernell Whitaker did. Ike Quartey did. Shane Mosley did. This was all at WELTERWEIGHT... Only top opponent at welterweight that Oscar outjabbed was Tito and we all know that EVERYBODY did that. But whenever Oscar's jab was challenged, he put it away. I think PBF wins the battle of the jabs even against a prime De La Hoya, whom even in beating Whitaker(Debatable decision), wasn't too impressive and this is the guy that Oscar faced that resembles the skill of PBF. I think its competitive. But I just feel that Floyd is simply BETTER than Oscar at any point and I think that at least 8 out of 10, he would out smart him.

Tito was not a bad technician at all in his younger days at welter before he fell in love with his left hook. But even Tito at his best, only has the puncher's chance IMO. I don't see Tito as having the necessary skill and know how to beat a gifted fighter like PBF. Oscar's hand speed and footwork had Tito befuddled so I tend to think that Floyd's would be similar and Tito would be frustrated.


Agree on Leonard over Floyd. Ray just has every advantage here. Size, strength, speed, power, etc. In terms of hand and foot speed, they're about even, but Ray has everything else. I see it a chess match early with both guys playing it cautious, and then Ray turning it up in the middle rounds. I think he either wins a very clear UD, or gets Floyd out of there late.
PR316
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 28 2009, 03:58 AM) *
Exactly. What possible tool could Floyd use to gain & keep Tommys respect? Fighting off the back foot would play right into Tommy's hands & 1-2.

Look at what happened when Leonard fought Hearns the first time. When Leonard was backing away he was getting pumped badly it was only when he said "damm i am getting flogged here" that he changed tactic & went at Tommy on the inside. Difference being SRL has much better power than Floyd at 147.



Agree Hearns is just a terrible match up, stylewise. Floyd 's only chance would be to stay within those long arms, and break down the body. But PBF doesn't punch hard enough at welter, and I don't think moving in and out and side to side would work here the way it did against Corrales at lightweight.


Tommy was just that good. I would give Hearns a shot against Robinson, honestly. Even though I think the original Sugar would find a way to win, Hearns stands a good chance of finishing the job that Tommy Bell didn't in that 2nd fight with Robinson where Robinson became welterweight champ for the first time.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (PR316 @ Sep 28 2009, 03:30 AM) *
I can see that argument. But for all of Oscar's boxing prowess, every good boxer he faced outjabbed him. Old Pernell Whitaker did. Ike Quartey did. Shane Mosley did. This was all at WELTERWEIGHT... Only top opponent at welterweight that Oscar outjabbed was Tito and we all know that EVERYBODY did that. But whenever Oscar's jab was challenged, he put it away. I think PBF wins the battle of the jabs even against a prime De La Hoya, whom even in beating Whitaker(Debatable decision), wasn't too impressive and this is the guy that Oscar faced that resembles the skill of PBF. I think its competitive. But I just feel that Floyd is simply BETTER than Oscar at any point and I think that at least 8 out of 10, he would out smart him.

Tito was not a bad technician at all in his younger days at welter before he fell in love with his left hook. But even Tito at his best, only has the puncher's chance IMO. I don't see Tito as having the necessary skill and know how to beat a gifted fighter like PBF. Oscar's hand speed and footwork had Tito befuddled so I tend to think that Floyd's would be similar and Tito would be frustrated.


I agree to a extent especially on Oscar but looking at their fight at 154 I can see the younger faster bigger Oscar getting to Floyd. I think if Tito catches him he falls but over 12 rounds Floyd may be able to use lateral movement to keep Felix turning so he can never get set. Lets be real Floyd is leagues ahead in the skills department than either guy but I just see him as being too small to handle these guys & their power.

Tommy's only weakness was his chin especially at 147 (hey you can't have it all can you) but you had to be prepared to wear his heavy heavy leather & get inside to hit his damm chin. Few managed that with any success & I do not see Floyd being prepared to do so. Look at how he stayed away from Baldozar & he had 1/1000th the power of prime Tommy.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 27 2009, 07:41 AM) *
Here is my take not as a hater but a honest appraisal of the "big 3".

Duran at 135 or 147 would beat Floyd fairly comfortably. He was fast & highly skilled with good but not great power. His aggression & footspeed would prove a lethal combination for Floyd & I can see Duran slipping his way inside & cracking Floyd every which way be it on the arms, ribs or head it would all take it's toll. If Floyd tried any of his roughhouse tactics such as his elbows that would be a huge mistake as we all know Duran was not afraid of getting dirty as fuck. Floyd would have his moments no doubt but overall Duran either stops him or wins a comfortable decision 9-3.

Leonard at 147 would destroy Floyd no more no less. Bigger stronger & a much much bigger puncher than Floyd. He had the speed & skills to match it with Floyd any way he chose & after a round or two it would be clear that only one man would emerge victorious. Leonards combination punching & power would wear Floyd down & by round 6 Floyd's legs would not be carrying him too well & Leonard would be hitting him with heavy combinations. Floyd falls within 8.

Hearns at 147 is a rangy huge hitting puncher that could box beautifully when he chose to. Hearns was tall & fought tall when he was on his toes, I doubt Floyd comes at Hearns & attempts to use his footspeed to back away from Hearns. Hearns moves forward behind his stellar jab & drops his right like a H bomb. This does not last long maybe 3 or 4 rounds at best.

This is not to say FLoyd is not a talented or potentially great fighter but against the greats of 147 he just does not have the tools to beat them as he is just too small. It would be better to compare him to lightweights as that IMO is his best suited weight class due to his more even size & relative power.

Putting him in with guys like Walker, DLH, Trinidad, Galivan, Griffith, Basilio & guys of that calibre would all result in losses for Floyd. As I said best to compare him to lightweights as he is too small for the true 147lb greats.

M. Walker and Floyd would be sweet to see..Definitely a UD for Walker IMO..Benny Leonard would be the guy I'd want to see Floyd fight more than anyone since Floyd has been considered at his best at smaller weights..UD for Benny in that fight..If we're talking welterweights,Sugar Ray Robinson would KO Floyd pretty easy..Floyd would get exposed hardcore if he fought any 3 of these guys..Floyd likes to lean in when attacking and lean back when being defensive..Someone like Sugar Ray's speed and knowledge would show us how to outbox Floyd..Today I don't see anyone outboxing Floyd..He does have some bad habits but with his abilities mixed with his skill,they have yet to be exposed to the point where a trainer would have a solid gameplan..To beat Floyd today,you need a lot of punches and lots of pressure..
ezdoseit
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 27 2009, 11:11 PM) *
I agree to a extent especially on Oscar but looking at their fight at 154 I can see the younger faster bigger Oscar getting to Floyd. I think if Tito catches him he falls but over 12 rounds Floyd may be able to use lateral movement to keep Felix turning so he can never get set. Lets be real Floyd is leagues ahead in the skills department than either guy but I just see him as being too small to handle these guys & their power.

Tommy's only weakness was his chin especially at 147 (hey you can't have it all can you) but you had to be prepared to wear his heavy heavy leather & get inside to hit his damm chin. Few managed that with any success & I do not see Floyd being prepared to do so. Look at how he stayed away from Baldozar & he had 1/1000th the power of prime Tommy.


floyd is the best boxer of our time how do all of u experts thank he would be easly beaten by these guys. dont get me wrong all of guy are all time greats but so is floyd if he did lose it would be a good fight i dont see floyd pride letting anyone blow him out. we can assume all we want but at the end of the day none of these fight will happen and for eveyone picking floyd to get ko'd thats just crazy and the baldamir comment how else was he suppose to fight a guy that is that much slower then him in every part of the fight game
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