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Method
Pretty good article I came across this AM...

http://mvn.com/thecruelestsport/2009/10/th...r-the-so-c.html

QUOTE
THE-NONE-TOO-CLEAN: Why Golden Boy Promotions Is Just As Dirty As Any Other Double Dealer, or, The So-Called Future of Boxing
11 Comments

By CARLOS ACEVEDO

Two weeks have passed since Golden Boy Promotions pulled a nifty short con on the public with its "mystery weight" high jinks for the Floyd Mayweather Jr.-Juan Manuel Marquez mismatch. And over the course of those two weeks the boxing press, such as it is, went completely AWOL on the subject. A few blogs--The Queensberry Rules and Bad Left Hook among them--expressed disgust, but mainstream outlets were too busy thrusting their snouts into oversized cans of Gravy Train to work up a lather. Dan Rafael of ESPN.com touched on the topic last week, but placed most of the blame on Mayweather, as if a boxer handles media kits and press releases, prints up posters, finds a venue, drafts contracts, apprises the world at large about the size of the ring, etc. True, Mayweather was in on the hoax and often sounded like an amateur post-Structuralist deflecting questions about the weight, but the bottom line rests with the promoter of record.
When the real sources--Richard Schaefer and Oscar De La Hoya--were asked about the weight, they lied. Period. De La Hoya, without a certificate from the School of Hard Knocks ala Don King or an Ivy League degree ala Bob Arum (you know, the man De La Hoya once referred to as the biggest Jew from Harvard) foolishly said at one point that the fight would be at a catchweight of 143 pounds, and Schaefer disingenuously claimed that the mystery number would boost the fun factor of the weigh-in ceremony. It appears that the real reason they kept the weight and its contractual stipulations hush-hush until the last moment was to make sure negative press about the size differential would not affect pay-per-view sales.
In the end, it was all for nothing, since negative press no longer exists in boxing. Other than some of the older writers like George Kimball, Ron Borges, Thomas Hauser, and Charles Jay, boxing no longer has watchdog types in the media to alert consumers of the everyday shenanigans perpetrated in the Red Light District of sports. Michael Katz, Pat Putnam, and Malcolm "Flash" Gordon are long gone and no one has come along to replace them. Instead we have an army comprised of strange genetic crosses between cheerleaders and lapdogs posing as journalists.

*****

Have you ever wondered how Golden Boy managed to get these blanks dates on ESPN2 and HBO? Ostensibly, it is because GBP has managed to produce sponsors, but in the case of HBO, a subscription-based service, sponsors are irrelevant. HBO, 35 years in the boxing business, now has an exclusive output deal with a promotional firm that not only has a slimmer talent pool than Top Rank, but one that also seems to be losing ground recently. Robert Guerrero may be headed back to Goosen-Tutor promotions after a protracted legal battle, James Kirkland was sentenced to a stretch in the hoosegow, Victor Ortiz found out that his halo was made out of papier-mâché, Ricky Hatton may retire, David Haye is a loose cannon, Vivian Harris is so shot that the only possible reason GBP signed him is to feed him to HBO as a designated punching bag if he can manage to avoid getting knocked out in the meantime, Juan Manuel Marquez is 36, Shane Mosley is 38, Bernard Hopkins is closing in on middle age, and Oscar De La Hoya recently retired from getting smacked around by smaller fighters.
Their biggest star remains Floyd Mayweather Jr., a boxer who works with Golden Boy on a fight-by-fight basis and a handshake agreement. How happy can Mayweather be with his handshake buddies when half of the GBP front office ambushed him after his victory over Juan Manuel Marquez?

*****

For years HBO had a policy of not letting promoters grab the microphone in the ring after a fight (this should probably be known as the Don King Rule), but--voila!--two weeks ago there was Shane Mosley, a Golden Boy representative, pulling a wrestling stunt by bogarting a post fight interview to antagonize Floyd Mayweather Jr. In the background loomed the leering skull of another supposed Golden Boy "Executive," Bernard Hopkins, resembling The Crypt Keeper without his cowl, jawing away at Mayweather Jr. like Classy Freddy Blassie except free of class.
None of these Golden Boy executives--Mosley, Hopkins, De La Hoya--are nearly as entertaining as Don King is, but for some reason they get to spew forth platitudes, cliches, sales pitches, and malapropisms with virtual impunity.

*****

In a few weeks we will all be lucky enough to read another "blog" entry on RingTV.com by Oscar De La Hoya (It is hard to tell if this blog is "ghosted;" true, it is poorly written, but it is no worse than anything else that passes for writing in boxing these days.) about "The Return of Victor Ortiz" and headlines will pour forth quoting sage Oscar, the man who once said African-Americans cannot take body blows. Ortiz, who with each passing day sounds more and more like a jerk, now claims he fought Maidana with a "shattered" wrist. (He also claimed in the same interview with Boxingscene.com that Marcos Maidana is ducking him. Is it too early for him to be punch drunk?) What kind of promoter lets a fighter go into an important bout against a solid contender with a broken wrist? The answer is simple, of course, but why get into it? Ortiz has wasted enough cyber-time. Never has so much attention been lavished on a fighter who has accomplished so little. The Cruelest Sport will never mention him again.

*****

Almost nothing De La Hoya says in public is true at this point, but Schaefer, who adds a new ingredient--sanctimony--to the predictable recipe of smart and smug, would like the world to believe that he is a cut above a crooked Faro dealer. Less than a week after telling thesweetscience.com "I want to show people that we're not anymore the sport of these smoke filled rooms," Schaefer presided over the phony weigh-in debacle, a swindle if there ever was one. Unfortunately for boxing, it worked. With a reported one million buys, Golden Ploy Promotions succeeded in bilking the public and will now be further emboldened in future stings. Consumer fraud is serious business everywhere, it seems, but in boxing.

*****

Schaefer, like De La Hoya, also suffers from a hefty "Messiah Complex" and is convinced his every move will save boxing from itself. He was proud to bring Mayweather-Marquez to movie theaters (read: closed circuit) over a decade after Bob Arum did the same thing with De La Hoya-Chavez I; he swears he will get boxing back on network TV as if Golden Boy will be the first to do so since the network blackout of the early 1990s. Main Events managed to do it on NBC five years ago. Maybe Schaeffer will succeed where Main Events failed. A few bait and switch schemes here and there, a couple of false advertisements, some mystery catchweights, another Rocky Juarez title shot, two or three bouts featuring Deontay Wilder against the Philly Phanatic and things will work out just fine. They might even throw in a special beer promotion like they did with Mayweather-Marquez. The peculiar benefits of that Tecate promotion were outlined by Daniel Cohen of Ringside Report and can be found here: http://www.ringsidereport.com/rsr/news.php...rt=33#news_2205

*****

Golden Boy constantly lectures the world on its superiority to established boxing business traditions. Perhaps they mean that they are actually better than the old guard at playing the same tired games. Here are just a few of their innovative moves: Stealing fighters developed by other promoters (with the lure of HBO dates, since Golden Boy recently took HBO Sports President Ross Greenburg to a tattoo shop and had "Perfect Victim" inked across his ass in gothic script); inserting one of their "executives," the undisputed gobbledygook king Bernard Hopkins, as a commentator on their own televised promotions; defrauding the public with false weigh-ins; using RingTV.com as a shill box; until recently offering the worst Pay-Per-View undercards imaginable; a lawsuit over the alleged theft of the idea behind "The Next Great Champ" flop television show, handing over a briefcase filled with $250,000 in small bills to Manny Pacquiao as a bribe, oops, signing bonus; pushing one dreadful "catchweight" bout after another (usually involving a GBP executive); and programming dreck for ESPN2, HBO and Versus. Welcome to the future of boxing.
KookedKrack
the inmates running the asylum is NEVER a good thing.......
thehype
For the record, the lead promoter of record was Mayweather Promotions, not Golden Boy, but that's a totally different story.

laugh.gif

Anyway...where was the criticism BEFORE the fight though. I mean, was it really a suprise that Mayweather wasn't going to make the catchweight? I know I wrote an article all the way back on July 15th about Mayweather fighting Marquez at a "guess-weight":

QUOTE
De La Hoya revealed that they were keeping it a mystery to get people to watch the weigh-in on September 18th. The question is why the big secret? Since when is it important to get people to tune in to a weigh-in? It seems odd that the promoters would keep the weight a secret, especially when most fans already believe that Marquez is coming into the fight at a big disadvantage. Marquez has never fought higher than the lightweight limit of 135 pounds. Although Mayweather revealed that he's already close to 147 pounds, one would think that the matchup would look more competitive and sell more tickets if fans knew in advance that the welterweight was willing to face the lightweight at a catch-weight instead of a guess-weight. Is this truly a case of creating excitement about a weigh-in or is Mayweather uncertain of how low he can go in weight?

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content5256.html


Where were Acevedo and the other "watchdog types in the media" at from July 15-September 18? They should have been pushing their "negative press" BEFORE the bout actually took place if they really wanted to make a difference. Bitching about it after the fact is too late in my opinion. If he wanted to "alert consumers of the everyday shenanigans", then he should have been writing about this stuff (and emailing George Kimball, Ron Borges, Thomas Hauser, and Charles Jay to do the same) WEEKS before the fight actually took place...not weeks AFTER it took place. Just my opinion though I guess.

On a related note, what happened to Michael Katz? I could have sworn he was still writing about boxing. Not sure where he's implying he went. LOL.
salvador
The shocking part wasn't that Golden Boy didn't want to advertise the comical size difference in the Floyd-JMM fight, the shocking part is that nobody seems to care that Floyd came in 2 pounds overweight. Castillo was crucified for it, but nobody wants to challenge Floyd for some reason. It really was disgraceful given the already rediculous natural size advantage Floyd enjoyed.


thehype
QUOTE (salvador @ Oct 2 2009, 11:22 AM) *
The shocking part wasn't that Golden Boy didn't want to advertise the comical size difference in the Floyd-JMM fight, the shocking part is that nobody seems to care that Floyd came in 2 pounds overweight. Castillo was crucified for it, but nobody wants to challenge Floyd for some reason. It really was disgraceful given the already rediculous natural size advantage Floyd enjoyed.


Because they knew all the way back in July that he was going to do that...everybody knew...Mayweather, Golden Boy Promotions, Marquez, Beristain...they all already knew. If you go back and look at all the quotes in the media from any of those guys leading up to the fight, they already knew. I mean, why keep hush-hush about it in the first place. Everyone was constantly asked about the catchweight...Marquez, Beristain, De La Hoya, Schaefer, Mayweather, Ellerbe...everyone was asked months in advance of the fight and not one of them would commit on giving the actual weight. They all knew and none of them cared so long as Marquez was getting broke off a little sumthin, sumthin extra.

So technically speaking, it wasn't a matter of Floyd not making weight...he made the weight because they all already knew that he was just going to come in under 147. Both sides agreed to that in contract so it was okay for him to come in at 146. The contract said that he had to come in under 147, but however many pounds over 144 he was, Marquez would get broke off some money. Marquez was fine with that, Golden Boy was fine with that, everyone was fine with that so technically, Mayweather didn't do anything wrong...unlike Castillo, who actually didn't make the agreed upon weight. It's not disgraceful...it's just business. LOL. Now, had Marquez not agreed to that and insisted that Mayweather fight him at 144, then it would have been a different story...but Marquez wanted the money more than he wanted an even playing field, so there's no one to blame but himself. I'm sure he'll think long and hard about that as he spends that extra $600,000.

laugh.gif
Method
Yup. Good points.
randallkees



for the record, Mayweather Promotions is NOT a licensed promoter in Las Vegas. See the following from Dan Rafael:



• I don't know about you, but it seems as though every time I see a segment from Mayweather's camp, somebody is wearing a "Mayweather Promotions" shirt or a sign for the company has been strategically placed in view. And with every piece of promotional material I receive and on every conference call I join, I keep hearing about Mayweather Promotions this and Mayweather Promotions that. Here's the problem: Mayweather Promotions is not a licensed promoter, according to the Nevada State Athletic Commission, nor will it be in time for this fight.

but that's another story.

for the record, acevedo was on record before the fight calling it fraudulent:



"Not only is this fight as suspicious as letterhead from the Foundation for New Era Philanthropy, it is also the latest in a series of senseless catchweight bouts made primarily for the benefit of HBO, Golden Boy Promotions, and silly "P-4-P" Fantasy League aficionados. In the end, Mayweather-Marquez is just another jerry-rigged event greased along by a compliant press corps made up almost entirely of fans. Hourly twittering about urine, tax liens, ticket sales, P-4-P ratings, and "24/7," an infomercial only slightly less contrived than the WWE, makes it seem like this fight is essentially for the Media Overkill Championship of the World.

To be clear: This bout may or may not turn out to be competitive; its initial intent, however, appears fraudulent. But even the best con games sometimes curdle and leave a scheming flimflammer or two in the lurch. Nothing in boxing is a sure thing. Cuts, disqualifications, point deductions, injuries, lunatic judges, and one well-placed blow to the temple can change the course of a fight in a nanosecond. Unfortunately for Marquez, who as recently as three years ago was hitting the scale under the featherweight limit, it looks like he might need some kind of divine intervention to upset the odds against Floyd Mayweather Jr. If not for the fact that Mayweather has been out of the ring for nearly two years, this bout would be a travesty. Is it possible that Marquez can win? Yes. Is it possible that a skydiver whose parachute malfunctions in midair can survive a fall of 8, 000 feet? Yes, but there is not a skydiver in the world willing to take action on that prop. "


http://mvn.com/thecruelestsport/2009/09/fa...ez-preview.html






QUOTE (thehype @ Oct 2 2009, 11:11 AM) *
For the record, the lead promoter of record was Mayweather Promotions, not Golden Boy, but that's a totally different story.

laugh.gif

Anyway...where was the criticism BEFORE the fight though. I mean, was it really a suprise that Mayweather wasn't going to make the catchweight? I know I wrote an article all the way back on July 15th about Mayweather fighting Marquez at a "guess-weight":



Where were Acevedo and the other "watchdog types in the media" at from July 15-September 18? They should have been pushing their "negative press" BEFORE the bout actually took place if they really wanted to make a difference. Bitching about it after the fact is too late in my opinion. If he wanted to "alert consumers of the everyday shenanigans", then he should have been writing about this stuff (and emailing George Kimball, Ron Borges, Thomas Hauser, and Charles Jay to do the same) WEEKS before the fight actually took place...not weeks AFTER it took place. Just my opinion though I guess.

On a related note, what happened to Michael Katz? I could have sworn he was still writing about boxing. Not sure where he's implying he went. LOL.

Method
Not for nothing, but Im glad I stumbled upon MVN.
MarzB
Once I heard how they tried to get Pacquiao, I knew they were like everyone else.
JaRaNDa
Some of what I read is the exact reason why I thought the whole time this fight is going to the cards, as Mayweather fought in 3rd gear the whole night. If Mayweather blew this 'lil' Marquez out in under 3 like he should have it would have demonstrated to the public, Mayweather nut huggers or any other fan indenial getting excited over a rubbish fight how much of a disgrace this really was!!...it was a mismatch from the moment this even became an idea in anyones head. Trying to ride this wave of money for as long as they can by recycling rubbish money fights & giving them 24/7's like these are fights of the century, Fuck GBP!!
JLUVBABY
i read that article and all i can say is i hope may/mosely will happen cuzz i dont see pac fighting mayweather and the golden boy team is acting like they are the new gangsters on the block.. pacs people dont want that fight... well i dont think roach wants it... mark my words right now when and/or if they fight may gives mosely a boxing lesson... i know most wont agree but they are on two diffrent playing fields... mosely is not the same class of fighter as mayweather... mayweather is a bentley and mosely is a well dressed chrysler 300c fully loaded... they are both nice but you can see the diffrence when you actually see them side by side... there is no comparison... some saw somewhat of a size diffrence in the ring fight night but that wont be a diffrence.... mayweather will beat mosely because he is a much better skilled fighter and i believe has a pretty solid chin on top of that... some rounds may be close but mosely has a false bravado on the guy that i think will come back to bite him.. i think mosely really thinks floyd is scared of him... that will only make the fight easier for lil floyd... id be l.m.a.o if at the post fight presser for the fight 2 of the gbp thugs have losses to may.... i also liked how at the may/marquez post fight presser may gave a shot out to chad dawson... i love the look on hopkins face when he does that, while hopkins is talking for mosely thats the fighter he needs to be concerned bout making a fight with.... but i doubt that ever happens cuzz dawson has the youth and skill to send him where he should be and thats his front porch sippin mint julip enjoyin his family at 44 yrs old... hopkins was acting like he wanted a peice of floyd more than shane.... gbp needs to chill on that, they claim to be whats good for boxing but what they are is promoters for the fighters that are willing to sign with them and thats it.... i know this is boxing and that stuff sells but i just dont see may being b.sed into a fight... i think the fight gets made cuzz its his second most profitable fight that he can make out side of pac who's people namely roach, not pac himself cuzz i believe he is a true fighter, will not want the fight... again thats if pac gets past cotto which i doubt...
Keith
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Oct 3 2009, 11:16 AM) *
mayweather is a bentley and mosely is a well dressed chrysler 300c fully loaded... they are both nice but you can see the diffrence when you actually see them side by side... there is no comparison...

i think mosely really thinks floyd is scared of him...


Its more like Mayweather is a Bentley and Mosley is a Hummer. That Bentley may drive circles around the Hummer but when they crash into each other..... who wins?

Floyd is scared of him. Even if he is a better fighter.... that doesnt mean he cant be afraid of him. Every fighter at 147 should be afraid of Shane's power. When Shane starts connecting guys fall down. Besides that, I think PBF's biggest fear is simply LOSING itself. He knows his entire career at this point rests on that 0. Shane represents a serious challenge to the 0.
yuca
QUOTE (Keith @ Oct 3 2009, 12:01 PM) *
I think PBF's biggest fear is simply LOSING itself.


I partially agree, but I don't think his fear is losing, instead I believe his fear is struggling to get the win. I believe he would win against Cotto, Mosley and whoever other 147er you put in front of him, I just don't think he would do it in an impressive fashion and would not look as unbeatable as he did with JMM. He has created an aura of being untouchable and maybe doesn't want to risk losing it.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Oct 3 2009, 11:16 AM) *
i read that article and all i can say is i hope may/mosely will happen cuzz i dont see pac fighting mayweather and the golden boy team is acting like they are the new gangsters on the block.. pacs people dont want that fight... well i dont think roach wants it... mark my words right now when and/or if they fight may gives mosely a boxing lesson... i know most wont agree but they are on two diffrent playing fields... mosely is not the same class of fighter as mayweather... mayweather is a bentley and mosely is a well dressed chrysler 300c fully loaded... they are both nice but you can see the diffrence when you actually see them side by side... there is no comparison... some saw somewhat of a size diffrence in the ring fight night but that wont be a diffrence.... mayweather will beat mosely because he is a much better skilled fighter and i believe has a pretty solid chin on top of that... some rounds may be close but mosely has a false bravado on the guy that i think will come back to bite him.. i think mosely really thinks floyd is scared of him...


Mayweather is scared of Mosley. It is obvious the way he backpedals and stutters. He always talked shit about Mosley, then when they are face to face, Floyd tries kissing his ass. All he has to do is sign for the fight, and if Mosley possesses no challenge, then why not fight him??? Sounds like easy money to me.

Of course Mayweather looks like a Bentley when he is driving around the ghetto with all the POS cars.

No comparison...hahaha. Please compare there welterweight opponents and let me know when you find a dangerous one Floyd has fought? Who in Floyd's reign would have beat Mosley? I will answer for you, no one.

Size difference won't matter, guarantee you the punching power difference WILL make a difference. You act as if Mosley won't hit him. I want to know what happenes when a strong fast welterweight does hit Floyd?

What makes you think Floyd has a solid chin??? Any proof? I saw him get buzzed by Hatton early. Judah buzzed him.

It's funny how you have the Floyd supporters and Shane supporters argueing about the same shit over and over. What is even funnier is that there is only one fighter who really wants to prove he is the best and get it on in the ring. Shane Mosley. The other would rather just tell you how great he is and take little risks in there.
JLUVBABY
i dont think may is scared of mosely... time will tell and like ive always said who he picks to fight in his next couple of fights to me will tell a lot about the guy but scared?... i dont think he fears mosely... floyd has never been the best speaker so a few stuttered or slipped words dont tell me anything.... for the record i am not a floyd or shane supporter lightout, but i do agree with you shanes resume at welter is far superior... i agree with that but i just dont think thats gonna matter, at the end of the day floyd is fresher, younger and simply hasnt seen the wars mosely has... mosely has been beaten up in his career.... its my opinion that if they fight floyd will shine.. i actually like both fighters tho i didnt like how shane allowed hopkins to take him out of his element in that post fight interview in the ring... but none the less if they actually sign to fight and im sure they will because there will be no more roads after next months pac fight then we will see who is right... and i agree keith shane is a threat to his 0 but I dont think shane will be connecting enough for his power to make that big a diffrence... i could be wrong but i see floyd giving shane a lesson in boxing...
Method
You may or may not be right, JLUV, but I STILL want to see the fight.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Method @ Oct 3 2009, 06:48 PM) *
You may or may not be right, JLUV, but I STILL want to see the fight.


i want to see it too... i think its a better fight than may/pac... only fight i think id want to see more is may/cotto... i think cotto is very dangerous for mayweather...
Lil-lightsout
Jluv- Let's just hope we see it real soon. Though many think Floyd will outbox Shane with ease, I honestly think Shane will beat Floyd. And if by some chance Floyd does beat Shane, it is not going to be easy. I just don't see it.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Oct 3 2009, 09:58 PM) *
Jluv- Let's just hope we see it real soon. Though many think Floyd will outbox Shane with ease, I honestly think Shane will beat Floyd. And if by some chance Floyd does beat Shane, it is not going to be easy. I just don't see it.


it may not be easy at times but floyd has this uncanny way of adjusting to fighters styles in a way ive never seen shane be able to do... with shane what you see in round one is pretty much what you will see the whole fight... no matter how the fight looks early by the 5th or 6th round i thik you will see total dominance by lil floyd... floyd wont knock him out but the superior boxing skills will prevail... floyds not gonna be a stationary target like margarito, marg was there to be hit all night long, floyd wont be... i'll tell you what if shane fights berto to me that will say alot about shanes chances with lil floyd... if he struggles and wins, hes not beating floyd... if he dominates him then the fight becomes interesting in my eyes... i get the feeling berto gives shane some very interesting moments... people think thats a push over fight for shane and i think just the opposite.. i think berto is a very dangerous fight for shane mosely...

plus i think its about time for the hard fights mosely has been in to start showing... i think actually it has already cuzz shane wasnt supposed to look like he did against mayorga.. that should have been a showcase fight... but we will see...

i will say it again tho... assuming pac gets by cotto, which i dont see happening, you cant knock mayweather for making that fight... after that what he does will leave a huge impression on him as a fighter and a person... to me assuming cotto wins there are only two fights for him.. cotto or the winner of shane and berto if they actually fight... personally i think cotto is the more dangerous of the two fights...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Oct 3 2009, 11:27 PM) *
it may not be easy at times but floyd has this uncanny way of adjusting to fighters styles... no matter how the fight looks early by the 5th or 6th round i thik you will see total dominance by lil floyd... floyd wont knock him out but the superior boxing skills will prevail... floyds not gonna be a stationary target like margarito, marg was there to be hit all night long, floyd wont be... i'll tell you what if shane fights berto to me that will say alot about shanes chances with lil floyd... if he struggles and wins, hes not beating floyd... if he dominates him then the fight becomes interesting in my eyes... i get the feeling berto gives shane some very interesting moments... people think thats a push over fight for shane and i think just the opposite.. i think berto is a very dangerous fight for shane mosely...

plus i think its about time for the hard fights mosely has been in to start showing... i think actually it has already cuzz shane wasnt supposed to look like he did against mayorga.. that should have been a showcase fight... but we will see...

i will say it again tho... assuming pac gets by cotto, which i dont see happening, you cant knock mayweather for making that fight... after that what he does will leave a huge impression on him as a fighter and a person... to me assuming cotto wins there are only two fights for him.. cotto or the winner of shane and berto if they actually fight... personally i think cotto is the more dangerous of the two fights...



Mayorga fight beforehand had me worried for two reasons. Mayorga hits hard as hell and is very awkward in there. And Jack Mosley as his corner. For a long time I wanted Shane to ditch his Dad for good. It is like Shane was getting worse and looked to be losing interest. He looked like a new man with Naz in his corner, like he was rejuvanated. And of course Margarito's style helped Shane too. But truth is Margarito steamrolled Cotto and Cintron twice. The way and how easily Shane beat him was impressive any way you look at it.

I think Berto would be difficult early for Shane, but I think Shane eventually gets to him and stops him. Berto's been rocked a few times already. Andre is young and a speed demon in there, and could make it difficukt for anyone though. We need to see more of him to see what he is made of. I mean he did just go life and death with Collazo, who Shane handled with ease.

My honest opinion if Mayweather-Mosley goes down. I just do not see Floyd being able to earn Shanes respect due to his lack of power. Shane will walk threw anything, and though Floyd will make him miss sometimes, Shane is going to hit him to the body and soften him up. And eventually he will start catching Floyd with some big shots. I just do not see Floyd opening up enough to win a decision. He barely opened up enough against JMM, how is he going to against Shane? I really am interested to see how Floyd reacts to taking a big shot. I know I saw him buckled from a hook from Hatton early on. And seriously Jluv, more than anything I see Shane as wanting it way more than Floyd. I see Floyd in it for the money where Shane seems like he wants to build his legacy. He just seems hungrier to me.

Just my take. Thanks for being respectful and having an insightful view, even if we do not agree.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Oct 3 2009, 11:00 PM) *
Mayorga fight beforehand had me worried for two reasons. Mayorga hits hard as hell and is very awkward in there. And Jack Mosley as his corner. For a long time I wanted Shane to ditch his Dad for good. It is like Shane was getting worse and looked to be losing interest. He looked like a new man with Naz in his corner, like he was rejuvanated. And of course Margarito's style helped Shane too. But truth is Margarito steamrolled Cotto and Cintron twice. The way and how easily Shane beat him was impressive any way you look at it.

I think Berto would be difficult early for Shane, but I think Shane eventually gets to him and stops him. Berto's been rocked a few times already. Andre is young and a speed demon in there, and could make it difficukt for anyone though. We need to see more of him to see what he is made of. I mean he did just go life and death with Collazo, who Shane handled with ease.

My honest opinion if Mayweather-Mosley goes down. I just do not see Floyd being able to earn Shanes respect due to his lack of power. Shane will walk threw anything, and though Floyd will make him miss sometimes, Shane is going to hit him to the body and soften him up. And eventually he will start catching Floyd with some big shots. I just do not see Floyd opening up enough to win a decision. He barely opened up enough against JMM, how is he going to against Shane? I really am interested to see how Floyd reacts to taking a big shot. I know I saw him buckled from a hook from Hatton early on. And seriously Jluv, more than anything I see Shane as wanting it way more than Floyd. I see Floyd in it for the money where Shane seems like he wants to build his legacy. He just seems hungrier to me.

Just my take. Thanks for being respectful and having an insightful view, even if we do not agree.


thats boxing my man... we are not always gonna agree but i can tell you this... if this fight is ever signed we will have to come up with a friendly wager.... if youre interested hit me up on im and it will be between me and you...
Keith
I just dont understand why Shane catches so much shit for the Mayorga fight. That fight is a perfect example of why Floyd always chooses to fight smaller men. Shane was going up in weight, Mayorga was coming down. Shane landed some huge right hands from rounds 3-6 that should of really shook up Mayorga... but they didnt. Its not Shanes fault Mayorga was a big tough guy he shouldnt of been in the ring with weight wise. And lets not forget, he was still even on the cards and it did eventually result in a KO. And Nas prepares Shane much better then his dad... HORRIBLE trainer.

Shane could of fought a lightweight and won by devastating KO.....

When you sandwich the Mayorga fight in between Collazo/Cotto and Margarito, I think its pretty obvious Shane is still an elite fighter.
Method
Hard to disagree w that, Keith.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Keith @ Oct 4 2009, 08:05 AM) *
I just dont understand why Shane catches so much shit for the Mayorga fight. That fight is a perfect example of why Floyd always chooses to fight smaller men. Shane was going up in weight, Mayorga was coming down. Shane landed some huge right hands from rounds 3-6 that should of really shook up Mayorga... but they didnt. Its not Shanes fault Mayorga was a big tough guy he shouldnt of been in the ring with weight wise. And lets not forget, he was still even on the cards and it did eventually result in a KO. And Nas prepares Shane much better then his dad... HORRIBLE trainer.

Shane could of fought a lightweight and won by devastating KO.....

When you sandwich the Mayorga fight in between Collazo/Cotto and Margarito, I think its pretty obvious Shane is still an elite fighter.


i dont think im saying shane is not an elite fighter but i do see him as a fighter that has the potential to at anytime go over that hump at his age and the hard fights hes been in... those fight will have to take their toll at some point... he's not as active as he should be as well... that may or may not be helping him... personally its hard for me to count the margarito fight... marg number one didnt have his secret weapons so he was shell shocked from that and number 2 he had to know his ass was grass after the fight by the nevada commision that dont play with stuff like that... im not sure he gave his all that night... even if he did he was a sitting duck all night long, shane couldnt miss... i think any top 10 welter pressure fighter beats marg. that night under the circumstances.. cotto was a tough fight for him that he lost and the collazo fight if i remember correctly was a good win for him... as for mayorga... bigger fighter or not mayorga was supposed to have been a highlight reel for mosely and it became one in the last seconds of a fight he was within a frogs hair of losing... all that aside, the mayorga fight aside, i just dont think in the end he will have enough ammo to topple lil floyd... id be crazy to sit here and say shane doesnt have some type of chance, but mayweather is a diffrent beast than any of the fighters he's fought at welter weight (except cotto) rather proven against the guys or not... but then again i didnt think he could beat floyd back when floyd was 130 and shane was 135.... for the people looking to see mayweather lose the fighter to make that happen is cotto.... in that fight cotto will be a solid welter weight, younger and fresher with under estimated boxing skills and is also a hard punching pressure fighter.... cotto can handle faster boxers as he showed against mosely and zab and even paullie mall. at 140... if this fight is made i would bet a few on cotto...
Keith
No disrespect intended... but I find it funny that your cherry pick analyzing Mosleys's opponents/performances over the last few years. Since his move back to welter against top notch guys or fighters above his weight class... 2 KO's, UD with a kd, and a respectable loss to an undefeated fighter to that point. I understand the argument that Floyd will beat him, but give Shane his due please.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Keith @ Oct 4 2009, 10:26 PM) *
No disrespect intended... but I find it funny that your cherry pick analyzing Mosleys's opponents/performances over the last few years. Since his move back to welter against top notch guys or fighters above his weight class... 2 KO's, UD with a kd, and a respectable loss to an undefeated fighter to that point. I understand the argument that Floyd will beat him, but give Shane his due please.


lol... i thought i gave him his due.... i mean i think he's a good fighter, not a great fighter, i just dont see him in the same light you do.... i can name a couple of fighters other than mayweather and cotto i think gives him all he can handle and has a shot at beating him at 147... they are berto, who it looks like he'll be fighting next... it'll be interesting to see how he handles bertos pressure and sharp punching and clottey, who with his shell defense and jab would give mosely fits i.m.o, tho im not sold on clottey having that killer instinct he would need if he has mosely on the brink as in his fight with cotto... im not trying to take away from his accomplishments im callin it like i see it as far as a fight with he and mayweather... just opinions... but i dont think i ever said he wasnt a good fighter... and for the record what he has done at 147 and above is better work than mayweathers up to this point... thing is im not really on the bandwagon of either fighter so there is no bias in me picking one over the other... i enjoy watching the both of them fight....
Keith
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Oct 5 2009, 12:30 AM) *
lol... i thought i gave him his due.... i mean i think he's a good fighter, not a great fighter, i just dont see him in the same light you do.... i can name a couple of fighters other than mayweather and cotto i think gives him all he can handle and has a shot at beating him at 147... they are berto, who it looks like he'll be fighting next... it'll be interesting to see how he handles bertos pressure and sharp punching and clottey, who with his shell defense and jab would give mosely fits i.m.o, tho im not sold on clottey having that killer instinct he would need if he has mosely on the brink as in his fight with cotto... im not trying to take away from his accomplishments im callin it like i see it as far as a fight with he and mayweather... just opinions... but i dont think i ever said he wasnt a good fighter... and for the record what he has done at 147 and above is better work than mayweathers up to this point... thing is im not really on the bandwagon of either fighter so there is no bias in me picking one over the other... i enjoy watching the both of them fight....


OK, I feel better.

I believe Berto gives Floyd more problems then he gives Shane. His hand speed will make it hard for Floyd to counter. The clutching and grabbing will really frustrate a pure boxer like Floyd. Floyd still wins cause he's just better, but just stylistically it wont make Floyd look good.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Keith @ Oct 5 2009, 05:40 AM) *
OK, I feel better.

I believe Berto gives Floyd more problems then he gives Shane. His hand speed will make it hard for Floyd to counter. The clutching and grabbing will really frustrate a pure boxer like Floyd. Floyd still wins cause he's just better, but just stylistically it wont make Floyd look good.


where are you from keith you're cool as hell... lol.... im glad you feel better now... shane is a good fighter there i said it again for you... lol....
Keith
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Oct 5 2009, 11:36 AM) *
where are you from keith you're cool as hell... lol.... im glad you feel better now... shane is a good fighter there i said it again for you... lol....


Just north of Tampa Florida. I love this sight and all the regulars.
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