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Warlord
For those of you guys who don't normally follow MMA, or who don't follow anything but the UFC, Dream just finished up their 11th show, which featured a bout between MMA legend Kazushi Sakuraba, and pro boxer Rubin Williams. (Former IBF world title challenger who last fought in July).

Williams is no world beater, but this 40 year old version of Sakuraba he faced is far removed from the legend that once defeated guys like Quinton "Rampage" Jackson, Royce Gracie, Vitor Belfort, Ken Shamrock, etc...

Anyway, it was a pretty interesting match, in that Sakuraba completely DOMINATED Williams, both on the feet and on the mat, submitting him with a kimura at 2 minutes, 53 seconds of the first round.

Check it out here if you're interested. (The site is in Chinese, but don't worry, just play the video the same way as if you were on youtube.)

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTIzNjk5OTA4.html

Comments?
Saigon
Lets not turn this into another MMA vs Boxing thread. Both fighters were good and are past there primes in there respective sports. This match doesnt prove anything. Sakuraba was suppose to win.
JLUVBABY
i will try to explain what i think by breaking down the two for what they really are in my mind.... i would figure the boxer would box no kicking (strictly queensbury rules) and the mma fighter doing all that apply.... honestly, the way i see it, the mma fighter has more tools to use, and if and or when taken down a boxer well most boxers have zero training in what to do when taken down because they dont need it etc..... you will probably have more mma guys coming out on top in an octagon setting simply because a boxer isnt allowed to kick etc and just simply dont have the tools to ward off the many diffrent ways a mma fighter would have at gettng to him meaning not just a take down but a trained mma fighter could win on probably leg kicks alone (i actually saw this exact fight on hdnet fights not to long ago out of japan where the mma fighter killed the boxers legs.... all leg kicks damn near)... but, take away the kicks takedowns etc from the mma fighter and put him in a boxing ring i cant think of to many mma fighters that contend with an elite boxer of the same weight, stature etc... i say that to say that they really are two diffrent sports... its easy to say an mma fighter would beat a boxer with the kicks take downs etc... same thing with trained boxers if you take away the kicks etc from mma fighters in a boxing match... the boxing most mma fighters do is a lot diffrent than what boxers would try to accomplish in a ring and i might be calling it the wrong thing but i call what they do dirty boxing meaning using elbows etc... that also wouldnt fly in a boxing ring... i say all that to say again that in the realm of things this topic really doesnt make a lot of sense because they are two diffrent fighting sports and you really cant compare the two as apples to apples because they are just not... ali lost to the jap guy back in the 70's i mean a skilled fighter no matter how skilled is facing an uphill battle vs. an mma guy of equal talent, again take away the kicks takedowns etc and put the same mma fighter into the ring and the tides turn dramatically... they are diffrent sports.... that is my take on an mma fighter vs. a boxer question...
BigG
What weight was that..>Rubin Williams looks is bad shape.
kidbazooka1
Sak was a bad dude in his prime one of the most clever MMA fighers ever and a true legend of the sport.
AussieLad
Even considering both guys were on the down slide career wise, Sak competed at a much higher level in his respective sport so i think its a bit unfair on the boxer, especially considering he is trying to box in an MMA fight.

Warlord
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Oct 7 2009, 12:45 AM) *
Sak was a bad dude in his prime one of the most clever MMA fighers ever and a true legend of the sport.

Co-sign.
Warlord
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Oct 7 2009, 01:52 AM) *
Even considering both guys were on the down slide career wise, Sak competed at a much higher level in his respective sport so i think its a bit unfair on the boxer, especially considering he is trying to box in an MMA fight.

I don't think Williams has ever fought so far above his natural weight as Saku did on numerous occassions, and I know he hasn't taken the punishment Saku has. Saku is an OLD 40, really fucking old.

I didn't make this topic to rehash which sport was better, I like both, and its fairly obvious that neither set of athletes could go into the other's sport and compete at a high, or even mediocre, level.

I was just surprised that Williams never even got off, once, especially against someone who was never known as a dangerous striker, even in his prime.

As an aside, I'm really just a huge fan of Saku who found an excuse to mention his name in a forum where many people maybe never heard of him or saw him in action. Saku is a true legend in combat sports, and was the reason I fell in love with PRIDE in the first place.
KookedKrack
QUOTE (AussieLad @ Oct 7 2009, 02:52 AM) *
Even considering both guys were on the down slide career wise, Sak competed at a much higher level in his respective sport so i think its a bit unfair on the boxer, especially considering he is trying to box in an MMA fight.


truth.com
thehype
QUOTE (Warlord @ Oct 7 2009, 03:34 AM) *
I don't think Williams has ever fought so far above his natural weight as Saku did on numerous occassions, and I know he hasn't taken the punishment Saku has. Saku is an OLD 40, really fucking old.

I didn't make this topic to rehash which sport was better, I like both, and its fairly obvious that neither set of athletes could go into the other's sport and compete at a high, or even mediocre, level.

I was just surprised that Williams never even got off, once, especially against someone who was never known as a dangerous striker, even in his prime.

As an aside, I'm really just a huge fan of Saku who found an excuse to mention his name in a forum where many people maybe never heard of him or saw him in action. Saku is a true legend in combat sports, and was the reason I fell in love with PRIDE in the first place.


I might be wrong, but I think what AussieLad was trying to get at was that Williams was never a top fighter in his own sport (whereas Saku was), therefore, the level of competition was kind of unfair.

I mean, like you said, Saku was a legend that once defeated guys like Quinton "Rampage" Jackson, Royce Gracie, Vitor Belfort, Ken Shamrock, etc...whereas Williams was nothing more than a journeyman who's best competition was maybe Jeff Lacy, so even a faded Saku was probably better than Williams with his standup in the first place.

I'm just guessing though...AussieLad may have meant something totally different, but I think that's what he was pointing out.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Saigon @ Oct 6 2009, 11:39 PM) *
Lets not turn this into another MMA vs Boxing thread. Both fighters were good and are past there primes in there respective sports. This match doesnt prove anything. Sakuraba was suppose to win.

Both were good??Rubin Williams sure isn't..His last 6 fights in boxing were losses..Who on his record that he beat have you seen fight??All he was was a guy being used to build up records..
Maxy
Until a top of his game world class boxer fights a top of his game MMA/UFC (I'm not clued up on the difference cos I don't watch it) fighter, these match-ups mean fuck all.
Mean Mister Mustard
It still says something that a professional boxer wasn't able to do squat against a guy who is known for his submissions.
JD
MMA fighter wins in an MMA match, boxer wins in a boxing match.
D-MARV
QUOTE (JD @ Oct 7 2009, 09:36 PM) *
MMA fighter wins in an MMA match, boxer wins in a boxing match.

Exactly.
Warlord
QUOTE (JD @ Oct 7 2009, 09:36 PM) *
MMA fighter wins in an MMA match, boxer wins in a boxing match.

Co-sign all day.

I just don't know why Williams never even got a shot in. It's no wonder he's lost so many fights lately, lol, fighting (or not) like that. I guess he kept thinking he was gonna land some sort of spectacular KO counter-punch... that never developed.
JD
QUOTE (Warlord @ Oct 7 2009, 09:45 PM) *
Co-sign all day.

I just don't know why Williams never even got a shot in. It's no wonder he's lost so many fights lately, lol, fighting (or not) like that. I guess he kept thinking he was gonna land some sort of spectacular KO counter-punch... that never developed.


He was probably deluded enough to think that Saku would stand in front of him and trade stupidly...or maybe he thought his ability to throw hands could outdo everything Sakuraba could bring to the table in his own craft.

I dunno. Maybe he just isn't smart.

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Oct 7 2009, 08:18 PM) *
It still says something that a professional boxer wasn't able to do squat against a guy who is known for his submissions.

How??He's not even a good boxer in the first place..All he was doing in boxing was being used as a punching bag for guys on the way up to keep these guys busy while he makes some money..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Fitz @ Oct 7 2009, 09:34 PM) *
I only seen Rubin Williams once, and it was against Lacy. I remember walking away from the fighting thinking Williams looked ok and I liked some things about him. I can't remember exactly, because it's been a while, but I remember despite him losing, I was still kind of impressed. I think it may have been a bit of speed he had and his jab, and I think he may have been a little out of shape and didn't work hard enough. I could be wrong though, but that's what I vaguely remember.

Jeff Lacy was better pre-Calzaghe but still nothing special..I liked him but mostly because he got the KO,not for his lack of skills..
Lil-lightsout
I used to love Lacy, and I thought he was going to be a big star coming up. I just did not think anyone would be able to stand up to his punches. He really got exposed and just never progressed or seemed to improve his game. Man...he had me fooled for years.

The first hard leg kick I would recieve from a pro MMA fighter, it be a wrap. I will stick to just using my hands.
Spyder
QUOTE (JD @ Oct 7 2009, 09:47 PM) *
He was probably deluded enough to think that Saku would stand in front of him and trade stupidly...or maybe he thought his ability to throw hands could outdo everything Sakuraba could bring to the table in his own craft.

I dunno. Maybe he just isn't smart.

After watching the "fight", I completely agree.

Homeboy didn't even attempt a step jab, or try to close the distance.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Oct 7 2009, 10:20 PM) *
I used to love Lacy, and I thought he was going to be a big star coming up. I just did not think anyone would be able to stand up to his punches. He really got exposed and just never progressed or seemed to improve his game. Man...he had me fooled for years.

The first hard leg kick I would recieve from a pro MMA fighter, it be a wrap. I will stick to just using my hands.

I used to be a huge Lacy fan myself..I can remember always wanting a Lacy/Taylor fight since they were close in weight and both came up around the same time..Lacy's size had me fooled though..He is real big but it doesn't mean anything..He got exposed for being muscle bound big time if ya ask me..Big muscles slow you down and get in the way..Long,lean muscles are the way to go..Once he started looking for one punch,you knew his career was basically over..He can be competitive with some guys still but doesn't belong among the elites anymore unless he can make some serious changes..No more TV time for him in my opinion..
Spyder
Jeff was never good against boxers...even as an amateur. Anyone that could move would give him SERIOUS problems.
iron_mike
Saku is fighting again? I loved this guy, he was so entertaining, his entrances, who does a cartwheel in the middle of a fight? The way he owned 4 or 5 Gracies, he was always fun to watch. He did get crushed 3x by Wanderlei Silva, but I'm glad to see he's fighting, but against a boxer? Under MMA or boxing rules?

I paid 59 freakin dollars for one of his t shirts that are really rare and hard to get.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Oct 7 2009, 09:34 PM) *
How??He's not even a good boxer in the first place..All he was doing in boxing was being used as a punching bag for guys on the way up to keep these guys busy while he makes some money..


Not a good boxer compared to the top 10 elite guys in the division but he was still a solid pro boxer and according to some, that's all the experience a boxer needs to easily KO an MMA fighter.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Oct 8 2009, 01:40 AM) *
I used to be a huge Lacy fan myself..I can remember always wanting a Lacy/Taylor fight since they were close in weight and both came up around the same time..Lacy's size had me fooled though..He is real big but it doesn't mean anything..He got exposed for being muscle bound big time if ya ask me..Big muscles slow you down and get in the way..Long,lean muscles are the way to go..Once he started looking for one punch,you knew his career was basically over..He can be competitive with some guys still but doesn't belong among the elites anymore unless he can make some serious changes..No more TV time for him in my opinion..



He still hits hard as hell, but he never improved at all. You are right, it's like all he ever did was look for the one big shot. If I was him, I would just fight C level comp and just keep KO'n them for money. He is done as a top fighter. Such a shame, he was one of my favs for a while too.

Spyder- Only saw him in Olympics, never followed his amateur career. But definately does not handle boxers.
mrwigi
simple.. in a martial arts event, a martial arts fighter has the advantage. in a boxing event, the boxer has the advantage.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (mrwigi @ Oct 8 2009, 03:37 PM) *
simple.. in a martial arts event, a martial arts fighter has the advantage. in a boxing event, the boxer has the advantage.


Tell that to the ancient Ray Mercer who KO'd a MMA top heavyweight(is Silvia a top fighter anymore?) in an MMA match. Just kidding. I know very little about MMA fighters and know it is a stupid comparison sometimes when they get compared who is better.
Spyder
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Oct 8 2009, 03:31 PM) *
Only saw him in Olympics, never followed his amateur career. But definately does not handle boxers.

Everyone from St Pete knows that about Jeff. It's one of the reasons that his sparring sessions are always a closed shop deal. Anyone that can move would WORK him.

It's surprising considering that he and Winky came up in the same gym.
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