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Jack 1000
There have not been two many personally for me. However, all of us in our years of watching boxing have probably had a few dissension scorecards. Here are my three fights:

Joe Calzaghe vs. Bernard Hopkins: If you listened to HBO and how their Punchstat numbers. You know their little inflatable toy that counts punches and lulls the for the most part inexperienced general public into who is winning the fight and why, You would think that Hopkins wasn't even there. Two of the judges had it for Calzaghe. However, the third judge had it for Hopkins and at least saw the close fight that I did. That match could and should have been scored as a draw to a two point edge for either fighter on all cards. Joe was the aggressor, BUT Bernard scored the points with some excellent counter-shots off of the ropes and the use of pivoting with the jab, patiently looking for openings and scoring with some VERY HARD and sharp counter-punchers, ALL of which were ignored by HBO's commentary, PunchStat, and shockingly, Max Kellerman, who has always shown an overt bias to slick effective counter-punchers over sluggers.

It was almost like Punchstat was paying HBO to say nice things about the software that night, while ignoring the close fight that happened in the ring.

Carlos Quintana vs. Paul Williams I: Everyone bashes Harold Lederman and me for favoring this extremely close fight to Paul Williams by a microscopic margin. However, I do submit that "The Punisher's" fights are very hard to score because of his incredible height, his jab, his reach. He towers over guys and strikes like an Octopus because Williams gives you so many punches and angles. Carlos fought amazingly well that night too, neutralizing a lot of Paul's punches in many close rounds. But there were also rounds where Williams jab did work very well and I saw the same type of countering off the ropes and pivoting similar to what Hopkins did against Calzaghe.

I do believe that people give Quintana MORE credit in that fight because he was very competitive against a slick boxer whom no one thought Carlos would show this. Williams is hard to look good against, and maybe Harold and I saw on that night, counter-shots that the majority believed were in-effective. But this was another draw to two-point edge for either fighter. I could not see 116-112 Quintana. And at no point during the broadcast at least from my recollection did HBO not give any indication that this was a close fight. A close fight that could have gone to either fighter.

Floyd Mayweather vs. Jose Luis Castillo II: Most people believe that Castillo should have won the first fight by 2-4 points and that even under generosity to Mayweather, at best he deserved a draw. The margins for Floyd were absolutely sickening in Fight #1. In the first fight for the first three rounds, Floyd did very well, jabbing and moving, pivoting, picking his shots, but after the third round in the first fight, Castillo did almost all of the more effective fighting,

With the strange point deductions in some cases and ref Vic Draculich's inexperience as a ref showing, I favored Castillo still be three points. In the rematch however, both fighters sucked. Max Kellerman and Tim Smith brought out the pom-poms for Mayweather but for what? Floyd did nothing that resembled the first three rounds of the first fight and Castillo didn't do anything either. You could make a case for 115-113 Mayweather, which I think two of the judges had. The third had it 116-112 Mayweather. Dominating my ass! My 114-114 draw card, agreeing with Lederman on all but the 4th round is exactly what that fight deserved.

Mayweather-Castillo II was no exercise in domination by either boxer. It was an experience in boredom.

Jack
MarzB
I delete this because I misinterpreted. I thought it was 'where were you in the minority prior to the outcome of the fight".
Romulus9
Great topic, Jack. I had considered posting on similar a while back myself.

First of all, I completely agree on Williams-Quintana I and Hopkins-Calzaghe. I scored them for Williams (115-113) and Hopkins (115-112) respectively. No need to really add much to what you said. Here are a couple of others that I tend to disagree with the masses on:


George Foreman vs. Tommy Morrison (1993) - For the life of me, I can't understand why the fight was scored so widely for Morrison. It was the first fight I ever scored (I was a month shy of 11 years old) and I went back and scored it again a couple of months ago... and got the exact same score. Foreman fought very well on the inside, consistently landing the jab and short right hand in close quarters, and actually scoring to the body more than usual. Morrison landed some shots and no one is questioning that. What is very odd is how many of his shots simply did not land. There were MANY glancing blows that knocked sweat off of Foreman's head but didn't land cleanly, punches that Foreman caught on the gloves, blocked with his arms, etc., that apparently fooled the judges. Quite a few combinations but their actual effectiveness is questionable. Foreman was consistent throughout, landed cleanly on the inside throughout (apparently out of sight of the three blind mice at ringside), and pressed the fight throughout. I refuse to give a guy a fight for RUNNING, and that's exactly what Tommy did in the last third of the fight. Boxing is one thing. Running is another. Several times he virtually turned his back and JOGGED AWAY. No points for you. I scored it 114-113 Foreman and wouldn't have argued for a similar margin for Morrison but the officials cards (117-110, 117-110, 118-109) were a joke.


George Foreman vs. Axel Schulz (1995) - Here we go. I agreed with the judges but because the decision is generally viewed as bad by many fans, it would seem that I disagree with the majority. I had Foreman winning 115-113 and had Schulz winning 3 of the last 4. Through eight, I thought Schulz was basically fighting 30 seconds of every round, throwing a flashy combination or two, usually with one coming right after the 10 second warning, but Foreman was winning 2 minutes plus of the round. That lead carried him on my card, and on those of the judges as well. Just like in the Morrison fight, Foreman was the model of consistency for eight rounds, and won the 11th, which pulled out the win. Foreman won the fight but it was definitely very close. Schulz closed the show well. People who think Schulz (or Morrison, for that matter) won convincingly and going away need to go back and watch those fights closely, not just with the Kellerman Concept of Scoring (Who you would 'rather be' wins the round. Really? I'd rather be the guy who's getting paid more. How's THAT for you?).
Lil-lightsout
Ray Leonard-Tommy Hearns II. I thought the draw was right and not like many thought Hearns outright won.

Leonard-Hagler. I thought that Ray handily won this fight, not like so many thought Hagler should have got the nod.
D-MARV
Cory Spinks VS Jermain Taylor- I don't know about you guys but I thought that Cory Spinks won this fight pretty clearly. 116-112 was my card if I remember correctly. I remember a lot of people bashing Cory for not exchanging with Taylor. LMAO! Spinks was the smaller man by FAR. I thought Cory boxed beautifully and use good movement to keep Taylor at bay. Their were times where I even felt that Spinks stunned Taylor. Anyways I thought Cory won the fight and was surprised by HBO's reaction as if Taylor dominated.
MarzB
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Oct 15 2009, 01:25 PM) *
Cory Spinks VS Jermain Taylor- I don't know about you guys but I thought that Cory Spinks won this fight pretty clearly. 116-112 was my card if I remember correctly. I remember a lot of people bashing Cory for not exchanging with Taylor. LMAO! Spinks was the smaller man by FAR. I thought Cory boxed beautifully and use good movement to keep Taylor at bay. Their were times where I even felt that Spinks stunned Taylor. Anyways I thought Cory won the fight and was surprised by HBO's reaction as if Taylor dominated.


I totally agree with you here. I don't care how much Cory Spinks is hated on here or other places. He might not have a lot of power but when he's on his game he can definitely box. I thought he definitely outlanded JT in this fight.

This one I really have to think about. Ah I have one.

Bernard Hopkins vs. Winky Wright-

There's a real reason IMO why I think people don't really laud this victory of Nard's because not only was it an extremely UGLY win but it's frankly questionable on some ends. This fight could have been a draw and I don't have a problem with it being 115-113 but 117-111 by two judges, what the heck were they watching??

I thought Bernard deliberately headbutted Winky at some points. Winky's jab was landing early but to 'nard's credit he was able to smoother it at points and take it away from him. My dispute with this fight is not only the wide scores but how it's seen as a clear win for Bernard when it really wasn't. Not to mention Winky was fighting outside of his weight class.
pacco_diablo
2 somewhat recent fights

Mosely vs Cotto- This should have AT LEAST been a draw.

Dawson vs Johnson- I had Johnson winning the fight. He applied the pressure the whole night and pretty much had Chad running. 116-112 on all three cards was a joke.

I think we'll all agree on these...

De La Hoya vs. Sturm- Complete and total cheating. People were paid off. There is no other explaination.
Lewis vs Holyfield I- Pretty bad decision of a draw. Again, total bullshit.

Roy Jones in the 88 Olympics.
Aware
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Oct 15 2009, 01:43 PM) *
Floyd Mayweather vs. Jose Luis Castillo II: Most people believe that Castillo should have won the first fight by 2-4 points and that even under generosity to Mayweather, at best he deserved a draw.
Jack


Most people don't believe Castillo won the first fight. However, there is a large pocket of fight fans like you who find solace in the delusion. You don't like Mayweather that's ok. Outside the ring I don't like him either. How people perceive the world is often limited. I'm glad that I'm smart enough to comprehend the fact that he is the greatest technical genius ever to lace up the gloves (No disrespect to Pernell Whitaker). The reason you don't see Mayweather winning the fight is because your not seeing the inconspicuous details (i.e. the subtle defense and the short accurate punches). You want the brainless slugfests, I prefer the art and brilliance of a skill that took a lifetime to amass in combination with uncanny innate ability. Mayweather is the closest athlete to Tiger Woods on the planet.

Post your scorecard!
http://www.fighthype.com/community/index.php?showtopic=7991 Remember this? 4 years ago I put it to rest.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (pacco_diablo @ Oct 15 2009, 07:21 PM) *
2 somewhat recent fights

Mosely vs Cotto- This should have AT LEAST been a draw.

Dawson vs Johnson- I had Johnson winning the fight. He applied the pressure the whole night and pretty much had Chad running. 116-112 on all three cards was a joke.

I think we'll all agree on these...

De La Hoya vs. Sturm- Complete and total cheating. People were paid off. There is no other explanation.
Lewis vs Holyfield I- Pretty bad decision of a draw. Again, total bullshit.

Roy Jones in the 88 Olympics.


Good observations here:

I had Mosley over Cotto by a point. The margins for Cotto were a bit wide, but not outrageous. They went for Cotto because of the MSG venue in most of the close rounds. Cotto the big money house fighter, and there were many close rounds.

Johnson should have beat Dawson anywhere from 116-112 to 115-113. When they said 116-112 (3x) I was sure that for once Glen would get it, I was wrong.

Delahoya-Sturm: Close, but a clear win for Sturm. The judges were within reasonable ranges until the 12th round, where all three gave that round to Oscar when there is no way that he won the 12th round (to protect the Hopkins fight.) 116-112 Sturm to 115-113 Sturm should have been the correct calls across the board.

Jones in the Olympics one of the worst cases of officiating in Olympic judging of all time. (The other two were the Canadian Pair's figure skating team getting robbed of the gold medal in 2002, and the 1972 Olympic basketball game between the USA and the Soviets where the Russians kept getting clock resets after the game had ended until they won.)

Other boxing matches that come to mind:

I had Toney-Holyfield very close for the first 4 rounds. Maybe even Holyfield ahead after 4. But from the 5tth round onward, Toney killed him. I remember scoring at least one of the rounds after 4, as a 10-8 without a knockdown because James was beating him so badly from the 5th to the 9th.

Outside of the USA, I cannot believe that some writers had Valuev winning over Holyfield! Holy shit that was robbery! I gave Valuev only three rounds! 7-9. WBA President Gilberto Mendosa had Valuev winning as did an experienced UK boxing columnist. (name escapes me.) I would love to know why and how?! For at least 9 rounds, Valuev did SHIT!

Jack
EvanKorn
I scored Peter-Toney I for Peter. I thought he landed the harder, more meaningful punches.

Lewis-Mercer- scored it 97-93 for Lennox, which is wider than most have it.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (EvanKorn @ Oct 16 2009, 10:46 AM) *
I scored Peter-Toney I for Peter. I thought he landed the harder, more meaningful punches.

Lewis-Mercer- scored it 97-93 for Lennox, which is wider than most have it.


im just the opposite on both fights.. both fights where narrow in my opinion but i thought toney edged peter and i really felt mercer deserved the nod against lewis... he out toughed lennox in that fight in my opinion... it was close but i thought mercer won that fight...
JaRaNDa
Forrest-Mayorga II - I beleive Mayorga swarmed Vernon with his wild agression and won the 1st 5 rounds of the fight, which also contributed with Forrest fighting quite tense & cautious based on the stoppage in the 1st fight. After the 5th Forrest starting finding range & rythym, started fighting more relaxed & started landing well against Ricardo. From the 5th onwards I beleive Forrest picked him apart and out boxed him for the rest of the fight. Every time I have watched the fight I have scored the rematch the Vernon!

In regards to the Cotto-Mosley fight I scored it a draw the 1st time i watched it. After watching the fight again a couple of months ago (this was such a great boxing fight that goes under the rador) I scored the fight for Cotto by 2 points.

Great thread!
D-MARV
Joe Calzaghe Vs Bernard Hopkins

I thought Calzaghe clearly won this fight... He outworked BHop from the start. I do, however, agree that Calzaghe didn't land over 200 punches.


Pavlik-Taylor II
I originally scored this fight a draw. I thought Taylor fought a lot better in the second fight and I had him winning after 10. I watched the fight a second time and scored it for Pavlik 115-113
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