Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Where is Pacman all time right now?
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
Pages: 1, 2
STEVENSKI
Alright guys where does he rate without prejudice, bullshit or bias on the ATG list?

I have him right up there with such luminaries as Duran, Robinson & Armstrong. He is that damm good. Forget about if he beats Floyd or whatever based on his achievements up til this point he is in the absolute elite percentile & anything else he does is pure gravy.

kidbazooka1
He's deinfily up there and if he continues to do what he's been doing we might be witnessing the GOAT thats my opinion though i know many here won't agree.
Rivado
Top 10 ever maybe
Lil-lightsout
Top 25. Don't forget his losses(Morales) and fights with JMM. Yes he has improved and what he has done up in weight is impressive. But let's not forget that alot of people thought Cotto has not been the same since AM. Not trying to make excuses, but lets not go crazy and put him in the top ten yet. I was extremely impressed with overall game tonight, but lets see what happens against Mayweather, Mosley, or another top 147. He is definately the goods fo sure right now, but we are talking "of all time". He beats the guys above, definately top 10 in my book.
STEVENSKI
So what Duran lost & had close fights so did Robinson & all the other greats. Your point?
torvix2000
In the TOP 10. Unless people don't like to analyze the fights of those other ATG's.

Duran's NO MAS QUITTING is worse. He got knocked out also.

BUT I HATE BRINGING DOWN PEOPLE. This isn't the way we must push a fighter up.

I say Pac is in the top 10 because of the manner in which he's won.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Nov 15 2009, 02:35 AM) *
So what Duran lost & had close fights so did Robinson & all the other greats. Your point?


How many top welterweights did Manny beat? One. What about all the greats Duran and Robinson fought? All I am saying is if say he would clean out the welterweight division, that would be unbelievable, especiallly considering all his past accomplishments at lower weights. Okay... great he beat Cotto, well there are other great fighters at 147 who have different styles and possess bigger problems for Pac. So lets see what he does against them first before ptting him the top 10. Also, why would a supposed "ATG Top Ten" NEED Cotto to be 2 pounds under the welterweight limit??? You would think an ATG would not need such silly stipulations to get every advantage possible. He should never do that again, he is a welterweight champ now, don't be pulling that catch weight again.

So what if Mayweather and Pac fight next, which is most likely, and Floyd outboxes and outslicks him over 12 rounds comfortably??? Manny still in top 10 ATG? Is Floyd then top 10 ATG?
torvix2000
I think it's about Pacquiao's run from the lower weight divisions. Combined with the almost impossible feat of 7 titles even if somebody cherrypicked every weak champions.
leonthegee
top 30 somewhere. who knows
Box in Hand
Manny looks a little scared when Mayweather's name is mentioned here. Yall should know I think Floyd is a pussy after I posted that RA interview so this isn't nut huggin. Watch the end of this interview and Manny does not want Floyd. We all knew Cotto was a wounded duck, at least those of us that knew Margs changed him but Floyd hasn't taken any damage. Gimme Floyd by UD or late stoppage.

Also, Manny is top 30 in my books.



http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=4656400
torvix2000
Pacquiao isn't afraid. This is just a replay of what he always say after the fight. "I'll let my promoters... blah blah blah...".
Box in Hand
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Nov 15 2009, 02:54 AM) *
Pacquiao isn't afraid. This is just a replay of what he always say after the fight. "I'll let my promoters... blah blah blah...".



Look, I am in awe of what Manny did in this fight. I give him all the props in the world but he is nervous. I'm hood and I know nervous when I see nervous. Look for Manny to give Floyd fits through the first six rounds before methodical ass thrashing.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Nov 15 2009, 04:43 AM) *
Manny looks a little scared when Mayweather's name is mentioned here. Yall should know I think Floyd is a pussy after I posted that RA interview so this isn't nut huggin. Watch the end of this interview and Manny does not want Floyd. We all knew Cotto was a wounded duck, at least those of us that knew Margs changed him but Floyd hasn't taken any damage. Gimme Floyd by UD or late stoppage.

Also, Manny is top 30 in my books.



http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=4656400


No freakin' way Manny is scared of Floyd he just fought Cotto for chrissakes.

Manny stutters and pauses alot when speaking english thats why he always ends up sounding uncertian of what he's saying but no way is he afraid of Gayweather if anything it's the other way around and im sure Floyd will prove me right by dodgeing Manny.
Box in Hand
QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Nov 15 2009, 03:07 AM) *
No freakin' way Manny is scared of Floyd he just fought Cotto for chrissakes.

Manny stutters and pauses alot when speaking english thats why he always ends up sounding uncertian of what he's saying but no way is he afraid of Gayweather if anything it's the other way around and im sure Floyd will prove me right by dodgeing Manny.



Floyd ain't dodging this. Shane is fighting Berto (Floyd Smiles with deep sigh of relief). Floyd is probably celebrating right now. This is another small man for him to go after.
torvix2000
Read this one. This is the meaning of afraid:

If Floyd wants a really big payday he’s going to have to fight him next,” Mayweather Sr. said. “But if it was me, I wouldn’t fight him. Whether I could whip him or not, I wouldn’t fight him, because things ain’t right. I’m pretty sure that’s what it is.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 15 2009, 07:46 AM) *
How many top welterweights did Manny beat? One. What about all the greats Duran and Robinson fought? All I am saying is if say he would clean out the welterweight division, that would be unbelievable, especiallly considering all his past accomplishments at lower weights. Okay... great he beat Cotto, well there are other great fighters at 147 who have different styles and possess bigger problems for Pac. So lets see what he does against them first before ptting him the top 10. Also, why would a supposed "ATG Top Ten" NEED Cotto to be 2 pounds under the welterweight limit??? You would think an ATG would not need such silly stipulations to get every advantage possible. He should never do that again, he is a welterweight champ now, don't be pulling that catch weight again.

So what if Mayweather and Pac fight next, which is most likely, and Floyd outboxes and outslicks him over 12 rounds comfortably??? Manny still in top 10 ATG? Is Floyd then top 10 ATG?



How many top 175lb fighters did Robinson beat? Pac has fought & beat a hell of a lot of first ballot HOF fighters in his career. Look at the career pac has had. It does not matter if he fights & beats Floyd. That would be the icing on the cake & elevate him higher if he can go higher. For a modern fighter to do the things he has is phenominal.
Snoop
3 years ago if someone had said Manny Pacquiao could one day beat Cotto around the ring and KO him in the 12th round, he would have been laughed the fuck off this board. Hell, I used to call people crazy for thinking he could take on Jose Luis Castillo after his Morales win and now Castillo is his sparring partner! You can't predict where this guy is going.
D-MARV
I Say Pac is Definitely top 12. Im not ready to put him beside Robinson or Duran.
Keith
Top 5. With a victory over Mayweather he would move to #1.
torvix2000
QUOTE (Keith @ Nov 15 2009, 01:50 PM) *
Top 5. With a victory over Mayweather he would move to #1.


Nope! Pac still has to beat a top guy at 154 to be #1.
Keith
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Nov 15 2009, 09:03 AM) *
Nope! Pac still has to beat a top guy at 154 to be #1.


Why?
JLUVBABY
just my opinion but its still a little early to be putting pacs name in the same sentence as a robinson armstrong those guys that are normally listed as the goats... the way i see it is we may be witnessing one of the greatest but he still has a lot of fighting to do to get on these guys level... even durans tho he may remind me of him in style... those guys fought and beat the same calibre of fighter that pac has just many times over.... i would think pac is working his way up the ladder but to say hes in the mix with the robinsons of the sport right now is def. premature in my opinion...
Method
All time right now? i have no idea. I have him at #3 on my P4P list though.
The CEO
Top 25...
Spyder
It is a little early to put him up there with the top three. But the things he is doing is a lot like what Henry Armstrong did.

Regardless if he belongs there or not...the comparison is unavoidable. We are witnessing something special.
Method
I am still not convinced. Have him step up and fight some more welters AT Welter, (and yes, I realize the minimu is 141, but if you want to fight welter let the opponent weigh up to the max - for those that keep citing the minimum).
The CEO
Agree he needs to let his Welter opponents come in at the natural 147....and I also wanna add to what I said a moment ago...he's Top 25, provided he's clean...hate to say that, but it has to be said....

Clean or not though.....Pac Man IS a killer.
dominicbuilder9k1
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Nov 14 2009, 09:13 PM) *
Alright guys where does he rate without prejudice, bullshit or bias on the ATG list?

I have him right up there with such luminaries as Duran, Robinson & Armstrong. He is that damm good. Forget about if he beats Floyd or whatever based on his achievements up til this point he is in the absolute elite percentile & anything else he does is pure gravy.

Pacquiao's in the TOP TEN... I predicted a Cotto win within the first 6 rounds because i never thought Pacquiao's power is sufficient to hurt Cotto,...but Pacquiao proved me wrong...Congratulations to all who picked the PACMAN to win against Cotto....Pacquiao is Amazing!...
Spyder
I think he'll weigh in at 147 no matter who he fights next. He looks pretty comfortable at welter.
Mean Mister Mustard
Barerra 2X, Morales 2X, Marquez, DLH, Hatton, Cotto and a shit load of great performances against guys like Ledwaba, Larios and Diaz. He's a legend.
Boxingjunkie
There is no way you could not rate Pac up there with some of the all time greats. Look everyone loses (except The Rock), but its the way he has come back and beat some of the best out there at the time. Its not that he is beating these bigger guys its the way that he is beating them. Almost nobody gave him a shot against Oscar, again I say almost. He destroyes Hatton then we get a ton of excuses as to why Hatton looked so bad. Now he beats Cotto fairly easily. I thought this would be the toughtest fight of his career but again Manny proved me wrong and made it look easy. So whats next for Pac? We know Mayweather is not going to fight him, to much risk. I say he fight the winner of Mosley vs. Berto.
JD
Pac is probably top 20 all time.

moscow bear
QUOTE (JD @ Nov 15 2009, 06:39 PM) *
Pac is probably top 20 all time.


Pac can become top 10 all time without beating gayweather.... he can beat a few champions at 154...for instance that new yuri guy, and he can beat sturm at 160.
The CEO
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Nov 15 2009, 01:27 PM) *
Pacman is one of the great fighters of this era. His management and training have been equally great. They have handpicked opponents that they knew they could beat. Hatton's chin had been exposed. De La Hoya was many years removed from his top form, very hittable and too slow. Cotto was also a shell of the top tier warrior from two years ago. These are not excuses, but facts. None of this takes away from the fact that he fights and defeats those put in front of him. He has been marketed masterfully.

They chose Cotto over Clotti(sp?), and Moseley for more than just the money. Moseley would have been a huge payday. Moseley is much more dangerous to Pacman than Cotto. But Cotto did significant damage and revealed weaknesses that moseley and other true welters could exploit to Pacman's demise.

I did not watch the Hatton and DLH fights live because I felt they were foregone conclusions. I felt the same about Cotto but I was convinced to watch it by my brother. It was a mistake. Cotto was game but done. That was obvious against Clotti.

Pacman will be remembered as a great fighter no matter what happens from here, but in order to break the top ten he will have to do more than beat-up handpicked has-beens and eke out controversial decisions.


A very fair assessment...the only thing I don't agree with is that Cotto was a "shell of himself"...I still think he was pretty damn good and better than most everyone around his weight before the fight....

Welcome to The Forum...
Method
There is absolutely NO FUCKING WAY this guy ranks in top 10 of all time. NO FUCKING WAY.

Like I aid, I have him #3 on my current P4P list.

I could give fuck all about him beating DLH, Hatton OR Cotto.

Do something I HAVEN'T seen already (beating DLH, Hatton and Cotto).

Dare to be great.

caneman
QUOTE (Method @ Nov 15 2009, 02:41 PM) *
There is absolutely NO FUCKING WAY this guy ranks in top 10 of all time. NO FUCKING WAY.

Like I aid, I have him #3 on my current P4P list.

I could give fuck all about him beating DLH, Hatton OR Cotto.

Do something I HAVEN'T seen already (beating DLH, Hatton and Cotto).

Dare to be great.



Who's your top 3?


Pacman is top 20 no doubt & could very easily be in the teens IMO. I think has has the best active resume in boxing & beat every one of them from 122 on up! I think it's funny how some disrespect Pacman...hard to see why in my eyes but everyone has their opinion & welcome to it!
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Method @ Nov 15 2009, 07:41 PM) *
There is absolutely NO FUCKING WAY this guy ranks in top 10 of all time. NO FUCKING WAY.

Like I aid, I have him #3 on my current P4P list.

I could give fuck all about him beating DLH, Hatton OR Cotto.

Do something I HAVEN'T seen already (beating DLH, Hatton and Cotto).

Dare to be great.


GTFO Meth. Have him top 3 P4P so saying that I assume you have him at #3 who do you have above him inactive fighters like Hopkins & PBF?

He destroyed the man at 140 & destroyed one of the main men at 147. He came from flyweight. Unless you have seen fighters come from flyweight & win a welterweight title then he IS doing things you have not seen. That is daring to be great & currently Pac rates higher than any other fighter from the last 20 years.

QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 15 2009, 10:01 PM) *
Pacquiao is an all-time great and probably has a better resume than guys like Hopkins, Mayweather and Jones and to many would be ranked higher than them. But this is really bugging the shit out of me because even though I may have to rank him higher for the life of me I just cannot say he is a better fighter than a guy like Hopkins, Mayweather or Jones. While Mayweather and Jones let it slide a bit with not going after the top competition and he will probably be rated higher than the three and very understandable. If someone was to ask me who is a better fighter between Pacquiao and one of those 3 guys, I just cannot bring myself into saying he is better than those guys. Better resume but just looking at them, I cannot say Pacquiao.


Well he is & he proves it time & time again by destroying fighters in higher weight classes. Get with the programme he is better than Hopkins he is better than Jones & he is better than Mayweather. It may bug you but hey traffic bugs me but fuck it I have to live with it.

Not to say I did not want to beat this Pinoy lady to death yesterday with my bar stool leg but I can't hate on the fighter for doing what he does. This guy is SPECIAL like Armstrong special. Enjoy it while it lasts because when he is gone much like Lennox Lewis you will be wishing he was around doing the things he did.
Fitz
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Nov 16 2009, 09:48 AM) *
Well he is & he proves it time & time again by destroying fighters in higher weight classes. Get with the programme he is better than Hopkins he is better than Jones & he is better than Mayweather. It may bug you but hey traffic bugs me but fuck it I have to live with it.

Not to say I did not want to beat this Pinoy lady to death yesterday with my bar stool leg but I can't hate on the fighter for doing what he does. This guy is SPECIAL like Armstrong special. Enjoy it while it lasts because when he is gone much like Lennox Lewis you will be wishing he was around doing the things he did.


Like I said I would probably rate him higher on a list than those guys, it's hard not to with a resume like that. That said I still cannot say he is a better fighter than Hopkins. I am already picking Mayweather over him, and in a fantasy prime for prime on a p4p fight, I would take Hopkins and Jones as well. He has a better resume, but I don't think he is a better fighter than those guys. That's just my opinion.
What if Mayweather schools Pacquiao, would you still think I am off base if I say Hopkins is a better fighter than Manny, but it maybe won't show on an all time list? Pacquiao will struggle against true classic boxers. Just watch.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 15 2009, 10:54 PM) *
Like I said I would probably rate him higher on a list than those guys, it's hard not to with a resume like that. That said I still cannot say he is a better fighter than Hopkins. I am already picking Mayweather over him, and in a fantasy prime for prime on a p4p fight, I would take Hopkins and Jones as well. He has a better resume, but I don't think he is a better fighter than those guys. That's just my opinion.
What if Mayweather schools Pacquiao, would you still think I am off base if I say Hopkins is a better fighter than Manny, but it maybe won't show on an all time list? Pacquiao will struggle against true classic boxers. Just watch.


It don't matter is a fighter stryggles with a "true clasic boxer" just so long as he beats them or is competitive with them. This ain't a list based on being undefeated or champion of a division for 10 years this is about the total body of work & what you have achieved & who you have beat & how you have done that.

You said fantasy P4P prime. Well this is the reality Fitz. Pac's career is better than the 3 guys you have listed. That is not to denigrate guys like Hopkins but the reality of the situation. If in the myth you got all these guys at the same magical weight Pac would win his share & be competitive in all of them. He is no Zab Judah or Tito Trinidad. I think a lot of focus is put on Pac's speed & power where his skills & smarts are what is winning him the fights.

Just my opinion but Pac is right up there in the absolute elite based on what he has done not what he has the potential to do. Pac is like a Porsche racing Ferrairs & Mclarens. Mayweather is like a Ferrari racing against a HSV. Sure teh HSV is a good car but it ain't a fucking Ferrari!
BigG
QUOTE
Enjoy it while it lasts because when he is gone much like Lennox Lewis you will be wishing he was around doing the things he did.


Lennox Lewis? Are you serious? laugh.gif
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (BigG @ Nov 15 2009, 11:09 PM) *
Lennox Lewis? Are you serious? laugh.gif


Using it as a example fuckface. Or perhaps you prefer the quality chumps we have masquerading as champions at heavyweight right now to the class & dominance Lewis exhibited as a champion? People bitch about the state of heavyweights since Lewis retired. Well Pac is much much greater than Lewis so enjoy him while he lasts because you may never see another fighter like him in your lifetime.
Fitz
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Nov 16 2009, 10:08 AM) *
It don't matter is a fighter stryggles with a "true clasic boxer" just so long as he beats them or is competitive with them. This ain't a list based on being undefeated or champion of a division for 10 years this is about the total body of work & what you have achieved & who you have beat & how you have done that.

You said fantasy P4P prime. Well this is the reality Fitz. Pac's career is better than the 3 guys you have listed. That is not to denigrate guys like Hopkins but the reality of the situation. If in the myth you got all these guys at the same magical weight Pac would win his share & be competitive in all of them. He is no Zab Judah or Tito Trinidad. I think a lot of focus is put on Pac's speed & power where his skills & smarts are what is winning him the fights.

Just my opinion but Pac is right up there in the absolute elite based on what he has done not what he has the potential to do. Pac is like a Porsche racing Ferrairs & Mclarens. Mayweather is like a Ferrari racing against a HSV. Sure teh HSV is a good car but it ain't a fucking Ferrari!


I agree with everything you are saying. He does have a better body of work than those guys. But that said, I could never pick him over guys like the ones mentioned in a fantasy fight. I am hoping that if Mayweater schools him, you can see what I am saying regarding Hopkins and Jones as well. We will wait and see though.
I'm not suggesting that those guys should all be put higher, it's just kind of weird that I see some guys that I think are better skilfully and would handle him.
BigG
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Nov 16 2009, 12:13 AM) *
Using it as a example fuckface. Or perhaps you prefer the quality chumps we have masquerading as champions at heavyweight right now to the class & dominance Lewis exhibited as a champion? People bitch about the state of heavyweights since Lewis retired. Well Pac is much much greater than Lewis so enjoy him while he lasts because you may never see another fighter like him in your lifetime.


I was only pushing your buttons, STEVE..laugh.gif
True-Boxing-Fan
It doesnt matter what anybody says. Manny is a real-life going down in history legit ATG. I dont know his rank on the all-time list and as a matter of fact I really dont care, as the list is very subjective to what you like. All I know is, he is a legit All-Time Great legend. The man is going down in history. I mean how can he not be with the things he has accomplished so far. The dude is amazing regardless if you like his style of boxing or not. He's probably the greatest Asian fighter of all-time and one of the greatest left-handers ever. You've got to give it up for him the man has real skills. He won the flyweight title just 2 weeks before his 20th birthday, now at 30 he's winning the welterweight title as a full grown man. Just like someone said early Manny can be beat, he definitely can be beat because he has. But in my mind its what you do after you lose, are you going to get up and shake things off and come back stronger or will your confidence be shot and be washed up? Pacman, like past greats(Ali, Robinson, Leonard and Duran) have lost and like past greats have came back even smarter and better than before. Pacman is an all-time great living legend boxer.
Warlord
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Nov 15 2009, 01:10 PM) *
Barerra 2X, Morales 2X, Marquez, DLH, Hatton, Cotto and a shit load of great performances against guys like Ledwaba, Larios and Diaz. He's a legend.

I don't want to shit in no mouths or piss on no parades, but Barrera, Morales, and DLH were all past it when Pac beat them. We saw a prime Morales toy with Pacquiao.

Pac is the #1 or #2 P4P fighter in the world today (we will have a definitive answer if/when he fights Gayweather), but let's not go over-board with this GOAT shit. That's a little too much.

Fighting a legit welter with no contract stipulations would also be nice.
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (Warlord @ Nov 15 2009, 11:36 PM) *
I don't want to shit in no mouths or piss on no parades, but Barrera, Morales, and DLH were all past it when Pac beat them. We saw a prime Morales toy with Pacquiao.

Pac is the #1 or #2 P4P fighter in the world today (we will have a definitive answer if/when he fights Gayweather), but let's not go over-board with this GOAT shit. That's a little too much.

Fighting a legit welter with no contract stipulations would also be nice.


Barrera was not past it in 2003. YOu want to go ahead and say Morales was shot ok. Hell, let's even count out the DLH win. He still has beaten Hatton, Cotto, Barerra and Marquez. Plus a shitload of other guys he has run over in the last few years.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Nov 16 2009, 12:54 AM) *
Barrera was not past it in 2003. YOu want to go ahead and say Morales was shot ok. Hell, let's even count out the DLH win. He still has beaten Hatton, Cotto, Barerra and Marquez. Plus a shitload of other guys he has run over in the last few years.


Agreed, and I'm not sure Morales exactly 'toyed' with him in their first fight, that looked pretty competitive to me.
Fitz
Morales IMO beat Pacquiao comprehensively. People forget that he gifted Pacquiao 2 rounds in that fight. He switched southpaw for the fans, put pride on the line. He did this in 2 rounds and gave them away, he also nearly got himself in trouble in the last round by doing this.
Morales could have easily won that fight with an 8-4 score line if he wanted to.
BigG
Morales was something special man, a fuckin beast to beat Pacquiao that way.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Well I guess we see the fight differently then. I was (and still am) a big big Morales fan but in that fight he was made to work IMHO.

That was no easy fight, although obviously others think it was.

This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.