Before I get classified as anything on this board let me first say that Pacquiao is a buzzsaw. I thought Manny was going to dominate Cotto, beat DLH, and annihilate Ricky Hatton so I am far from a "hater". I do, however, think that that Pacman is getting too much credit for this victory over Cotto (and the other two for that matter). Both fighters were clearly out of their league when they fought Pacman. DLH we learned at weigh-in and fight night weigh in, and well Hatton, he just sucks.

Even Cotto though, seemed to get put up on this pedestal before this fight as being some sort of beast of a welterweight. Cotto did box Mosley's ears off and looked great doing it but does anybody think that would happen again? Was Mosley still sluggish because he was getting his body adjusted to 147 (it was only his 2nd fight at WW in 5 years)? Who else did Cotto beat that was significant at WW? He slipped by Clottey, beat Gomez and Jennings (who and who), beat Quintana a decent fighter, and Super Judah (when does he show up for big fights?).

I guess in short, Pacquiao was a 2.5 to 1 favorite for a reason and he showed that last night. While it certainly was a great win and a spectacular performance I'm not ready to come to tears discussing it (Jim Lampley) but rather now want to see him do it against some real WWs, much the same as we ask any great fighter. The biggest difference is that I think Pacquiao wants those fights as well.

Some other observations...

• I know Pacquiao started at 106 but let's not forget he was 16 years old. Going up 39 pounds and winning a title is certainly impressive but I know I gained 40 pounds easy since I was 16 ;-).
• Did Pacquiao really look like the smaller man in there? Cotto's shoulders did seem broader but when you look at all the measurements (height, reach, fist, etc. etc.) they were pretty much equal. Pacquiao says that he walks around at 145, which gives him the disadvantage of not ballooning up after the initial weigh-in but also gives him a nice advantage of being totally comfortable and not having to drain prior to the fight. Sure seems to be working well.
• Pacquiao's hand speed is great, his combination speed is phenomenal. When he throws combinations they are rarely less than 4 punches and it when he throws that big left he is able to slip by the opponents left shoulder using his momentum so he isn't there to be countered. I'm not sure how anybody can stop that.
• You think Marquez still wants to fight Pacquiao? I think Pacman would destroy him at whatever weight as he has grown so much as fighter just in the last year.
• Once again...Lampley crying? You have got to be f'n kidding. Can HBO please look into getting rid of both him and Steward? Steward brings up his past fighters every chance he gets and Lampley falls over himself trying to hype up HBO cash cows. Crying though? Come on.
• $65 PPV and that was the card? Arum should be ashamed. What an absolute joke. Luckily I had about 5 people over to split up the cost but still if you are going to charge $65 let's get some real fighters on there.

"If it's easy, somebody else would have done it."

Nobody said it was easy, the gaining 40 pounds since being 16 was tongue in cheek.

LOL, Lampley cried? Tell me more.

BEFORE the fight, Pacquiao was given too much credit for his wins over Hatton and De La Hoya...Cotto was supposed to be the guy to prove that!

Now AFTER the fight, he's given too much credit for his win over Cotto too?

Come on man...let's be real...Pacquiao deserves ALL the credit he's given simply because he brings excitement back to the sport. I've been a long-time fan of Mayweather's skills, but it's pretty sad that his most recent "entertaining" and "exciting" fight has come against Arturo Gatti (unless, of course, you thought his fights with Mitchell, Judah, Baldomir, De La Hoya, Hatton and Marquez were exciting). I can honestly say that I haven't felt the way I felt on Saturday for a big fight in a long time and I have to thank both Manny and Miguel for that. Not only do both of those guys fight for money, but they also fight for the fans and for their legacy and they DEFINITELY deserve all the credit in the world, despite the fact that they may not be as skilled as Mayweather.

It's no fun to own a Ferrari if you're just going to keep it parked in the garage...that's how I feel about Mayweather and if you ask me, I think maybe HE'S the one who gets too much credit for performances against guys that he'll admittedly say are C-level fighters.

Just my opinion though.

Mabuhay!



THE Pacquiao SD12 Mayweather

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Hype, I remember you said before that if Pacquiao fights Mayweather you could see the Pac Man outworking Mayweather en route to a close decision. Based on last night's fight, do you think it would be better for Pacquiao to counter and Make Mayweather lead or do you still feel it's better for Pacquiao to be the sgressor and throw combos?

I think Pacman would have to be the aggressor myself as PBoiF would wanna counter & lay on the ropes doing the shoulder roll & trying time Pacman. I wanna see the fight although I honestly feel that PBoiF doesn't deserve a fight with Pacman...PBoiF can keep his Ferrari parked in the garage. He doesn't care about fans & legacy don't pay bills so screw him! Even though I honestly wanna see the 2 fight...just saying!

first off i want to say that i was impressed by mannys victory over cotto. he did what he was suspoded to by beating a drained cotto (and cotto was drained, even though his body looked to be in good shape, the eyes never lie). that said if cotto had a right hand the fight would of been a little different. not saying cotto would of won but i think it would of been more competitive. we all saw what marquez did to manny twice. i know manny fans hate that we alwasys bring that up but those fights did happen so deal with it. that said this may v manny fight has to happen. and if it happens in the new cowboys stadium i am freakin ringside for that fight. that said ive got to tip my cap to manny because i thought he put on a tremidous performance last night.

People underestimate PBF's power and still his tremendous defense. manny will not be hitting mayweather with all of the flurries he throws and he will pay for his at times over agression... Pac will definitely make it a tough fight, but mayweathers underrated chin, power, and physical strength and stamina will be the deciding factors. Mayweather trains like a man possessed and is a very good athlete. He brings things Pac has never dealt with. The right hand that Cotto lacked that would have made a difference Mayweather has and it is one of the best right hand leads in the game. Pac will be eating them by a fighter with longer arms and reach.

Manny has never fought anyone like Floyd and vice versa the difference is Manny will be the one throwing more punches and showing the judges that he wants to win.

Manny by decision.

This to me is the biggest key for Floyd that will give him the win. Cotto had no right hands for Manny, where Floyd will use his very effectively to frustrate Manny.

hype, I remember having a back and forth with you regarding Mayweather. This statement pretty much summed up my feelings on Mayweather. I think he is a freaking excellent fighter, but I just want to see him test it against better opponents (cars in this analogy, lol). That said, I am picking Mayweather over Pacquiao. Early on when Cotto implemented the jab and had a controlled aggression he was handling Manny. Mayweather is a well disciplined and great boxer. He will keep this up and get the win over Manny.

Are you sure you're talking about Manny Pacquiao? Because it sounds more like you're talking about Floyd Mayweather.



A win over a faded Morales is better than a win over a faded Gatti.

No...that's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm not saying Floyd hasn't challenged himself.

I think fighting Jose Luis Castillo in his first fight at 135 was a challenge...I think fighting De La Hoya at 154 was a challenge...I even think fighting Zab Judah was a challenge. In my opinion, Floyd has "challenged" himself in his move up in weight just as much as Pacquiao has.

What I'm saying, however, is that EVERY time Floyd fights, he doesn't bother to unload his entire arsenal. He'll take the Ferrari out of the garage, but he only drives through the suburbs at 25 MPH. Fuck that shit...EVERY time he takes that Ferrari out, I want to see him take it on the interstate and open it up doing 90 in 65.

Take his last fight with Marquez for example...I truly believe that he coasted in that fight and didn't bother to unload his offense to get a less talented guy out of there. That's his whole mentality. He does just enough to do whatever he has to shut the other guy down, while potshotting with his own hard shots. I don't want to see that. That's what makes fights boring. Floyd has ALL the tools, offensive and defensive, to REALLY put on spectacular performances, but he doesn't bother to because he doesn't care about entertaining the fans.

THAT's what I mean about him keeping the Ferrari locked up. Those same 6, 7 and 8-punch combos that Pacquiao was killing Cotto with, I truly believe Floyd can do that AND some if he was actually forced to really fight...the problem is, because he's not forced to use all of his tools and because he could care less about truly entertaining the fans, we get those whack performances from him. To put it bluntly, Floyd Mayweather is selfish, whereas Manny Pacquiao is not...and the funny thing is that you can see that in both of their personalities.

VERY well said & we never will see him push it to the limit unless someone can push him... I know what is gonna happen, he'll fight Pacman & retire again & will be the greatest of all time cause he never lost a fight! I hope Pacman waxes PBoiF & turns him out like a $2 hoe! It would be good for boxing & we MIGHT even see the Ferrari get down & dirty if he did! Let's hope he can get a fight made with Pacman cause I think PBoiF will want a 60-40 split!

I think it would have to be a little of both. When Mayweather fights, he does a little of both...he has no problem with leading or sitting back and countering, so Manny would have to be able to do a little of both too, but honestly, I don't think it would matter. In my opinion, the onus is going to be on Floyd to be more active than he usually he is. I mean, I'm not taking anything away from Floyd because, quite honestly, as good as Manny looked against Cotto, I pretty much expected that type of performance...Miguel Cotto is just too hittable and is no Floyd Mayweather Jr. when it comes to defense. I'm quite sure Floyd will be able to neutralize a lot of what Manny does with his own defense. But Manny is so active and throws so many multiple-punch combos, I think he'll get credit for punches that might not be landing. I mean, I think his speed alone will be enough to make Floyd a little cautious in the early rounds and if his fight with Zab Judah is any indication, there's a good chance that Manny could bank a few of those rounds early before Floyd can figure him out. That's the thing about Floyd...what makes him so great isn't necessarily his technical skills...what makes his great is his boxing brain...much like Peyton Manning is a great quarterback because of his football brain. Floyd would likely eventually figure Manny out, but the onus is going to be on Floyd to figure him out sooner rather than later because if he takes too long, Manny just might bank 7 of those rounds and get the split decision win. I mean, it's not inconcievable...even Oscar's slow ass was able to lose via split decision in a fight that I personally thought Floyd won 8 rounds to 4. If Oscar can do that in the eyes of one judge, I'm sure there's a GREAT chance that Manny could do it in the eyes of two judges.

Good point Hype...with the Oscar comparison.

It isn't inconcievable that Manny could convince a couple of judges that he won more rounds, but I wouldn't bet on it. Floyd's timing is unmatched, and Cotto was able to time some of Manny's charges.

I just can't visualize Floyd losing to Pac's aggression.

Considering Cotto beat Mosley & Pac destroyed Cotto how is fighting Shane "stepping up" in class?

Ok, then we will go back to disagreeing lol. But we won't have the back and forth this time. But believe me hype, just so you know how much I think of Mayweather in the skill department. He will school Pacquiao...........just watch. Wooooooooooooooooooooooo[/thehype]

Because Shane was considered the best fighter at 147 and Cotto wasn't.

I would also be quite happy to see Floyd left a drooling vegetable by Pac. The fuck should be in jail for fraud he really should. Any other bidnessman who sells something on the promise of delivering a certain product & then fails on every single level to deliver it is a fraud. that man is Floyd.

Why the fuck is this little cunt getting GBP to negotiate with Arum for a Pac fight? Does he not have Mayweather productions to do that or is that more of his bullshit he fobs off to the public.

My take, pac deserves all the excitement, hype, credit...whatever he is getting for putting himself in the place he is in right now. he's the one taking all the risks as they say.

That being said....the mayweather fight will be made and floyd will be victorious imo. Will go down as the most gross $$$$ fight of all time and not because of it being a great fight either....just the fight the public (including me) wants to see.

Floyd will slow down the track and cruise to a victory and the excuse a thon will began once again (he ran, he wouldn't stand and fight, he was too big,ref would break them up too soon..etc,etc,etc)...that's how it works.

That may be so but Cotto beat Shane & face it a Pac vs Cotto fight would do more $$ than a Shane fight & bvecause they are both Arum fighters it was easier to make.

Agreed that there was more money and easier to make. I just think Mosley is a tougher fight than Cotto. We can't always use the Cotto beat Mosley scenario because that could have been used with Cotto, Mosley and Margarito and we saw how that played out.

I think Shane is getting too much credit for beating a guy with limited skills who couldn't punch worth a damn once his secret was exposed.

Shane can be outboxed, as he was against Cotto and he was for a good part of his fight with Mayorga. In fact, it will not shock me at all to see Andre Berto win way more rounds than he should...possibly even squeeking out an ugly and boring decision against Shane.

It says here that Manny chops Shane up and makes him looks old.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

the way pac looked last night he knocks shane out... maybe by the 8th round...

LOL. If he couldn't know Miguel out by the 8th round. Well he couldn't even knock Miguel out period, then he isn't knocking Mosley out by then. Mosley is one of the toughest fighters in this era. He may lose, but he isn't getting knocked out, and especially not before the 8th.

To the floyd huggers discrediting the cotto win and calling for Pac to 'step up'... LOL... cotto was far more dangerous than marquez. Look at the sig bet thread, and how few people were picking pac to beat cotto. Just about everybody picked pbf to beat marquez easily. That is a clear indication of who is taking more risks.

As for floyd taking a risk... i will believe it when i see it happen... at the moment that scenario is about as likey as being introduced to BigFoot whilst getting rectally probed after being abducted by space aliens, on the same day you won the lottery

I think that really says it all Hype.

Diamonds are forever & so is Ric Flair & THE Pacquiao.

Being ripped off goes both way. Floyd is selling a fight and we're deciding to buy it. This isn't comparable to buying a car and it not performing to how the salesman said it would. It's more like a promoter selling a movie and it sucking at the end. Sure, we might get our money back if we're lucky, but it's nothing that holds any legal jurisdiction.

Is Mayweather getting GBP to negotiate for him? Maybe the whole ego is a facade, if he's willing to give up promotions to his own fight to someone who will do it better than he will.

It may well cut both ways but he is promising one thing & delivering something else altogether. Fuck mayweather he is a complete cunt & I wish nothing but the worst for him.

Mayweather gives green light to GBP

Damn I need to start reading the headlines more often. It's embarrassing to ask, "Where'd you hear that" and be redirected to the front page of the same site. LOL.

Sometimes I wish Mayweather seriously wouldn't talk. His logic and reasons for not taking on fights just makes NO sense and make me hate him more as a person. BUT, I happen to hate delusional Pacquiao fans more than Mayweather so I won't be rooting against Pretty Boy til after the Pacquiao fight (if it gets made).

What's funny to me is all the Mayweather haters we have here. The fact is Manny impressed me tremendously and showed why I as well as most people feel he is the current P4P #1 right know. He looked tremendous on Saturday night, but let's not forget whether you dislike, or even hate him Mayweather is a different breed. They don't make fighters like him anymore. With that said PacMan will give him his toughest test and it should be a great fight, but when it does happen it seems like I am the only one here who sees a vicotry for mayweather. It really just seems like we don't have any true boxing fans who appriciate the fine art of boxing here, there is a reason it is called the sweet science and mayweather does it better than anybody else, true boxing ability. Why should he fucking take punishment if there is no need to? For what, I feel him fuck that. The fact is the man is just that good and while he might have many more fans if he was more exciting granted and agreed all he does is win and my final point to all you haters of money may is that when those two fight and money wins then all the haters are going to come up with another Bullshit Reason why be isn't the best it will always be like that he loves to play the villian. But anyway big upps to Pac he's the fucking man right know and can't wait for him and money to fight!

Apparently, Mr. 5 posts who wants to come in and judge all the posters on this board, you don't know how to read. Just because we dislike Mayweather's character, doesn't mean we discredit his ability. I don't think ANYONE here has said we don't appreciate his skills or this leap-of-logic conclusion you made of appreciating the sweet science. Many of the Mayweather "haters" on this board will be the first to acknowledge that he has top-class boxing skills, just not top-class PR skills. There are a few people on here that deny both his skills and his personality outside the ring, but they aren't the quality posters, and I haven't seen them comment on this thread.

I felt a bit bad posting that link



I agree I hate his delusional fans but I find myself gaining more & more respect for him as a fighter with every fight. Sure he has lost but he has come back better than ever.




They never did make fighters like Mayweather. FIghters that blatantly refuse to make the matchups people want to see & buy. he has lived a charade for long enough & wasted his best boxing years fighting anyone but the best.



Pac shows the sweet science moving forward & backwards. Look at Cotto's face & how little damage Pac took in that fight over 12 rounds. You never saw guys like Robinson run the way Mayweather does. I am happy to see a great boxer not get tagged but blatantly running & turning your back on your opponent is not the sweet science so don't pretend it is.

I completely agree with you. Floyd came back to make big money against Pac, justice would be either Pac fight him and put him in a wheelchair or snub him and fight somebody else, put his loud mouth boring ass back where he belongs, into perminent retirement. Very few fighters you want to see fight simply to see him get KTFO, Ruiz, Spinks, and Floyd are in this group of people.

Sometimes I think about how unfair it is to root against a great fighter like Manny Pac, who does nothing but deliver what he promises, because of his fans. And sometimes my foot gets caught in my mouth because at least in the case of Cotto, the Pac fanboys were right.

I see your point as I previously said.



I seriously wanted to hurt the bitch. I'm normally pretty cool watching fights in public but damm I wanted to break by bar stool & hit her with the leg. My missus found it funny that I wanted & needed Pac to win yet I was rooting for eyebrow boy out of spite. Maybe I am just a crazy guy who knows?

Forgot to add the dumb bitch was throwing combinations as well.......

That sounds un-fucking-tolerable. I would have HATED to take shit from someone like that after the foolish mess I made of myself on Saturday. The only thing worse than delusional fans are delusional fans that have no class after their fighter wins.

Man I know your feeling. I remember watching Pacquiao-Morales III at the pub with my brother, and it was full of Pinoys. They were the most annoying people ever. They jumped and screamed and yelling shit that you couldn't even understand, and I think the thing that added to it was that they have this high pitched screeching voices. I was so annoyed.

This was happening in the fight. Man the high pitched wails & shrieks & this fucking dumb idiot saying over & over & over "Ooooooh the PACmon's gonna knock him out now". I actually turned to him & his dumb fuck mates & said Pac ain't got the power to lay Cotto out but he will stop him of that you can be sure.

Other things said were "Do it for me! Do it for the Pinoy! Do it for your country!" "WAAAAAWOOOOO". The best bit was when the stoppage came the dumb fuck jumped up & his phone went flying & he cracked the screen. I was more upset when he said "It don matter I just won $5000" "WAAAAAWOOOOO" "I love you Pacman".

Does Pac know how dumb his fans can be? Surely he can't.

Hey torvix, I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure as I think you mentioned it before. But you are a Pinoy yeah?

I didn't mention it. Yes.

LMAO!!! Some Pinoys even got heart attacks watching Pac-Cotto.

Amazing. Just when I thought you couldn't get any more annoying you dickhead.

Nyahahaha!!! You want me to bring some more friends of mine?

BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHA this one almost made me fall from my chair laughing...Nice experience there Steve....
After reading "thehype" posts and "Fitz" I hope that Floyd will not take the fight against Manny to burry all those mystery between them still. I would easily pick Floyd to win a boring decision but down the unknown Pac is beyond logic and he never get his credit full when all of his opponent got old overnight whether they are on their prime, weight drained or past their prime. Manny and Floyd are a gift to the sports, the former brings joy and happiness the latter brings hatred and confusion.

Problem for Pac is that Floyd can get tagged clean and fall down flat on the canvas. Ala Roy Jones. Pac won't get any credit for that.

Like I said in another thread, that scenario would probably never happen, but why wouldn't Pac get credit for it if it did?

It's like Floyd in a box labeled "Handle With Care!". LOL!