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Lil-lightsout
I previously had Pac there, and I know it was pretty much between Pac and Floyd split down the middle for the most part. Floyd swayed alot of people with his performance over JMM. But now with Pac's performance, anyone remove Floyd from the top spot and replace him with Pac?

1-Pac
2-5 in no order- Mosley, Hopkins, Mayweather, Dawson.

Just my opinion, hope I am not forgetting anyone else.
Snoop
I don't think anyone could make an argument for Pacquiao not to be #1 at this point. If you could, I'd love to hear it.
kidbazooka1
Manny was already #1 last nights fight only solidified that.
BigG
Yes..Bazooka is right..Manny was #1 even before the Cotto fight and the Cotto fight just solidified that..He's beating the best and making it look easy. He deserves all the props he is getting. But he's not unbeatable.
Lil-lightsout
Reason i posted this cause many were ridiculing some for having Manny at the number 1 spot before this fight. So I was just wondering if this fight now kind of "solidified" it(thanks KidBazooka1).

BigG-Good post. He deserves to be #1 right now, but he is not unbeatable.
leonthegee
floyd, manny never beat floyd to become p4p1. so in my book floyds p4p1 and i would call manny the interm p4p1.
Spyder
How many of you guys calling Pac number one would pick him to beat Floyd?
moscow bear
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Nov 15 2009, 10:35 PM) *
floyd, manny never beat floyd to become p4p1. so in my book floyds p4p1 and i would call manny the interm p4p1.


huh? who did floyd beat to become p4p??? roy, hops?
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Spyder @ Nov 15 2009, 04:38 PM) *
How many of you guys calling Pac number one would pick him to beat Floyd?


I would favor Manny without a doubt.
leonthegee
QUOTE (moscow bear @ Nov 15 2009, 02:42 PM) *
huh? who did floyd beat to become p4p??? roy, hops?


roy jones got knocked out by antonio tarver. thats how floyd became p4p1. did u ever see floyd get knocked out by anybody yet? i thought so.
Spyder
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 15 2009, 04:49 PM) *
I would pick Mayweather, but why does it matter? I would pick Williams over Mosley, doesn't mean I have to put Williams above him. I would pick some fighters at 140 over Marquez and probably wouldn't rate them higher on a p4p list.

Because that is what being p4p means...

If everyone was the same size, who would be the best? Well, in this case, we don't exactly have to think about it hypothetically.
Fitz
QUOTE (Spyder @ Nov 16 2009, 11:45 AM) *
Because that is what being p4p means...

If everyone was the same size, who would be the best? Well, in this case, we don't exactly have to think about it hypothetically.


But by that logic wouldn't that mean that all polls when a highly regarded p4p #1 is fighting that everyone would HAVE to pick the guy that is number 1? What about if someone is going to pick Berto over Mosley (and there will be some of those guys). Are you suggesting that they must have Berto over Mosley on a p4p list? What if I was to pick Bradley over Marquez? Does that mean I must have Bradley over Marquez on my list? Because that is what you are pretty much saying and I strongly disagree.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 15 2009, 03:44 PM) *
I previously had Pac there, and I know it was pretty much between Pac and Floyd split down the middle for the most part. Floyd swayed alot of people with his performance over JMM. But now with Pac's performance, anyone remove Floyd from the top spot and replace him with Pac?

1-Pac
2-5 in no order- Mosley, Hopkins, Mayweather, Dawson.

Just my opinion, hope I am not forgetting anyone else.

Pac has it on lock!!!


How anyone has Hopkins in their top 5 is beyond me!
Fitz
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Nov 16 2009, 11:56 AM) *
Pac has it on lock!!!


How anyone has Hopkins in their top 5 is beyond me!


I could see how someone could squeeze Hopkins in at about 3-5. Who do you think is definitely above him? I haven't given it a hard thought, but off the top of my head I don't see why not.
D-MARV
I would rate Pacquiao, Mayweather, Mosley, PWill & Chad Dawson over him!
Fitz
I don't think Mosley, Williams or Dawson are a lock over Hopkins. Especially Dawson.
BigG
Pacquiao
Mayweather
Hopkins
JM Marquez
Mosley
Williams
Dawson
Cotto
Donaire
Calderon
Marquez
Vazquez
Sosa
Lopez
Montiel
Abraham
Rivado
Pacman looking great in thrashing top tier opponents makes a case

Floyd by outclassing like opps makes a case

I like Pacman's approach to combat but can respect Floyd's approach as well.

Both have a case for the top spot. They have to settle this.

caneman
I think Pacman deserves the #1 spot til he is knocked off it personally. If PBoiF can get off his high horse & not try to get a 60-40 split, maybe we can settle this in about 6 months or so! After that maybe PBoiF will go back into retirement & stay there! I'll be rooting for Pacman!
Spyder
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 15 2009, 07:53 PM) *
But by that logic wouldn't that mean that all polls when a highly regarded p4p #1 is fighting that everyone would HAVE to pick the guy that is number 1? What about if someone is going to pick Berto over Mosley (and there will be some of those guys). Are you suggesting that they must have Berto over Mosley on a p4p list? What if I was to pick Bradley over Marquez? Does that mean I must have Bradley over Marquez on my list? Because that is what you are pretty much saying and I strongly disagree.

Yes.

If the p4p#1 guy is fighting ANYONE in his weightclass, then he should be favored to win by ANYONE who has him rated that highly. I mean, if you're telling me that someone is the very best fighter in all of boxing...regardless of weightclass...then it should be a given that he is the best in his OWN weightclass.

If you don't agree with that, then I would suggest you go back and truly understand the term pound-for-pound.
torvix2000
QUOTE (Spyder @ Nov 16 2009, 12:01 PM) *
If the p4p#1 guy is fighting ANYONE in his weightclass, then he should be favored to win by ANYONE who has him rated that highly. I mean, if you're telling me that someone is the very best fighter in all of boxing...regardless of weightclass...then it should be a given that he is the best in his OWN weightclass.


What about if a P4P fighter only temporarily settled in a weight class? Or just entered a weight class?

streetlion1
Pacman-Cotto put the questions I had about Manny to rest for the most part.....Pacman is clearly #1 P4P.
Big Slim Sweet
Pac's #1 hands down right now. I too favor Floyd to outpoint him if/when they fight but based on what they've each been doing it's no contest to me who has earned the right to call themselves the best.
iron_mike
Cane, I noticed you been calling Floyd PBoiF...what does that stand for? Only If?
Fitz
QUOTE (Spyder @ Nov 16 2009, 11:01 PM) *
Yes.

If the p4p#1 guy is fighting ANYONE in his weightclass, then he should be favored to win by ANYONE who has him rated that highly. I mean, if you're telling me that someone is the very best fighter in all of boxing...regardless of weightclass...then it should be a given that he is the best in his OWN weightclass.

If you don't agree with that, then I would suggest you go back and truly understand the term pound-for-pound.


So Marquez-Khan could fight, I pick Khan. So it means I must have Khan higher on a p4p list?

Sorry, I know what p4p lists are, and resume has a lot to do with it as well. I picked Calzaghe over Hopkins, nobody was going to tell me to have Calzaghe over Hopkins on a p4p list at the time.

I would also suggest you could go back and truly understand the term styles makes fights.
Douchebag
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Nov 15 2009, 04:35 PM) *
floyd, manny never beat floyd to become p4p1. so in my book floyds p4p1 and i would call manny the interm p4p1.



Bwahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhahahaha
Spyder
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 16 2009, 05:07 PM) *
So Marquez-Khan could fight, I pick Khan. So it means I must have Khan higher on a p4p list?

Sorry, I know what p4p lists are, and resume has a lot to do with it as well. I picked Calzaghe over Hopkins, nobody was going to tell me to have Calzaghe over Hopkins on a p4p list at the time.

You're wrong.

If the p4p#1 guy is fighting ANYONE in his weightclass, then he should be favored to win by ANYONE who has him rated that highly. I mean, if you're telling me that someone is the very best fighter in all of boxing...regardless of weightclass...then it should be a given that he is the best in his OWN weightclass.
Fitz
QUOTE (Spyder @ Nov 17 2009, 11:20 AM) *
You're wrong.

If the p4p#1 guy is fighting ANYONE in his weightclass, then he should be favored to win by ANYONE who has him rated that highly. I mean, if you're telling me that someone is the very best fighter in all of boxing...regardless of weightclass...then it should be a given that he is the best in his OWN weightclass.


Well why does Ray Robinson have losses? Why does Ali have losses? Why does any supposedly p4p #1 all time great have losses? If they are the very best, shouldn't they BEAT everyone?
No you are wrong.

By the way, you never answered my question. If I was to hypothetically pick Khan to beat Marquez, would you expect me to rank him over Marquez?
caneman
QUOTE (iron_mike @ Nov 16 2009, 01:40 PM) *
Cane, I noticed you been calling Floyd PBoiF...what does that stand for? Only If?



Boi is like boy but with a disrespectful twist! Boi like in boi pussy or like fuck PBoiF!
Spyder
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 16 2009, 07:57 PM) *
Well why does Ray Robinson have losses? Why does Ali have losses? Why does any supposedly p4p #1 all time great have losses? If they are the very best, shouldn't they BEAT everyone?
No you are wrong.

By the way, you never answered my question. If I was to hypothetically pick Khan to beat Marquez, would you expect me to rank him over Marquez?

Fighters lose. This is boxing, and things happen. It's what a fighter does after a loss...

Robinson lost to Jake LaMotta...what did he do? He turned around and beat Jake 4 more times. He lost to Fullmer...then he knocked Gene's ass out in an immediate rematch.

You severely missed the point...if Fitz rates Manny Pacquiao #1p4p, then Fitz is saying that if every fighter was the same size...Manny would be the BEST!

Well...in this ONE case, the two fighters that everybody agrees are the very best on the planet...ARE the same size. Therefore, whoever you would pick to win between them WOULD be the best.

If your "rankings" don't reflect your pick, then...bluntly...you're not being honest.
Spyder
I picked Cotto over Margarito because Cotto was a MUCH better fighter. I knew that Margarito had limited skills, and that Cotto would be able to touch him up pretty easily. So yes, I had Cotto in my top ten p4p and Tony was not. Granted, Tony with loaded gloves would be much higher on my p4p rankings...

P4p IS subjective, but only to the person that made the list. There shouldn't be a disparity within that person. That's just retarded.

Yes, if you pick Khan over Marquez, then at this time you think that Khan is better than Marquez...lol...why is this such a hard concept for you?
torvix2000
LOL! Spyder must be a mathematician of some sort.

Two types of definition in math: 1) intuitive definition, and 2) formal definition

Jack 1000
Right now it is Manny, Here is some food for thought about Floyd:

He has not fought a PRIME Welterweight in seven years (Castillo) who at least in the first fight gave him a taste of hell by brawling.

Any other fighters that he fought at higher weights were either shot (Delahoya) or vulnerable (Hatton) where Floyd could see flaws in them before fighting them so he could have 60% or better shot of winning.

If or whenever Floyd fights Manny, it could be close to a decade where Floyd is facing someone with the speed of his and the power greater than his, who is at least 50/50 on beating him. And even Pacquio for all of his greatness is not a NATURAL Welterweight. At least Manny in Cotto beat a natural Welterweight. Let's see Floyd fight ONE natural welterweight who isn't vulnerable or shot since Castillo. Name a natural welterweight since Castillo whom Floyd has fought that is not either shot or vulnerable.

And let's see he fights Manny and wins WITHOUT controversy. OK give him credit. But where is Williams? Where is Mosley? When all is said and done, Floyd may have accomplished #1 status for his undefeated record. But let's embed in the fight fans heads how he got there. By beating up on smaller weight, shot, or vulnerable fighters. You have to go back all the way to Castillo I to refute that claim, seven years ago.

Jack
Spyder
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 18 2009, 07:29 PM) *
Why is it so hard for you to understand? Look, I have had enough and I am going to prove you are wrong with your own words and not mine.

http://www.fighthype.com/community/index.p...st&p=201402



So pretty much you must rate Tszyu over Floyd, you may rank Floyd over Chavez, you think he may be better than Leonard on an all time p4p list and he is better than Arguello.

Thanks man. Selfowned.

You can stop now.

Actually dude, that's sounds more like RT than me...lol...I don't even remember typing that...but what's your point?

Do you even have one?

You spend all day in the search window, yet you can't make a reasonable defense of your fucked up rankings and picks?

laugh.gif

How can you say that one guy is better than the other, yet you don't pick him to win head-to-head? lol Man, you make less sense than Jerry Drake did in that thread.

laugh.gif
Spyder
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 18 2009, 11:03 PM) *
LOL. Hahaha. Good one man. It isn't you? How pathetic, you can't even own up to it even though it's written under your account. Unfortunately for you, the internet isn't very forgiving.

You don't understand what I said? It's pretty straight forward.

Because you don't understand. I will make it simple for you. You picked Tszyu over Mayweather, you think Mayweather could possibly beat Leonard, you think he could possibly beat Chavez and Arguello. Do you have Mayweather ranked over every single one of those guys?

It was very easy to understand. If you have Leonard ranked over Mayweather, you MUST pick Leonard, unless for some fucked up reason you have Mayweather rated over Leonard. If you think Leonard is higher ranked, you SHOULD pick Leonard head-to-head. Are you understanding this? Or is it still complicated. The same goes for Tszyu. You think he is all wrong for Mayweather, so using your strange logic, you must rank Tszyu over Mayweather. Do you understand?

If by spending all day in a search window, you mean by clicking on "search" typing "Spyder" and going to "classic" boxing section, then yes I suppose I did spend all day laugh.gif

Also you say I can't even make a reasonable defence. I can guarantee it's a much better defence than saying. "That was Rusty that wrote that" even though it has your name all over it.
laugh.gif

You have a pretty short memory there, Fitz. lol

Rusty and I shared an account on here when we used the same computer...check the post date Febuary 2006...Rusty didn't create his own account until September 2006.

laugh.gif

You really must be struggling to defend yourself if you'd come on here and call me a liar, rather than explain your fucked up rankings...man, I thought you were cooler than that.

Weak.
Snoop
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 19 2009, 05:28 AM) *
Haha. Good one man.

Rusty, how do you feel about your brother thinking you are a fucking idiot like myself using this logic? Once again, I doubt what you are saying. It has your name, plus I know how rusty types and it sounds more like you than rusty. laugh.gif

Rusty and Spyder are brothers?
Snoop
This is a good debate (aside for the shit talking, well, that's pretty good too laugh.gif) but I think I'd have to side with Fitz on this one. I don't think we can rank fighters based on what we think would happen if two of them hypothetically match up. Accomplishments speak louder than speculation, because speculation can often be wrong.
Mean Mister Mustard
I didn't know Rusty and Spyder were brothers. Is this the type of information that is being passed around the Team Fight Hype section? If so I should go over there and meet the family.

Also, we all know boxing math doesn't work.
Snoop
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 19 2009, 05:53 AM) *
Nah, it isn't being passed around. They have mentioned it before a while back. While we are at it, we may as well get all the brothers out. blackbelt and ROLL DEEP are brothers, and my brother is Jaranda. Any more guys want to own up? laugh.gif

I agree that boxing maths doesn't work, but Spyder doesn't see what I am saying or see how it's possible that I could pick a guy to win even though I don't rank the guy higher. That's where the whole idea of 'styles makes fights' comes from. That's why we see things like Mayorga beating Forrest, Margarito beating Cotto. If it was as simple as the guy that wins is always better than Ray Robinson should never have had a loss.

WTF JaRaNdA is your brother? No wonder ya'll were ganging up on me in the Jermaine Taylor thread!
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 19 2009, 12:53 AM) *
Nah, it isn't being passed around. They have mentioned it before a while back. While we are at it, we may as well get all the brothers out. blackbelt and ROLL DEEP are brothers, and my brother is Jaranda. Any more guys want to own up? laugh.gif

I agree that boxing maths doesn't work, but Spyder doesn't see what I am saying or see how it's possible that I could pick a guy to win even though I don't rank the guy higher. That's where the whole idea of 'styles makes fights' comes from. That's why we see things like Mayorga beating Forrest, Margarito beating Cotto. If it was as simple as the guy that wins is always better than Ray Robinson should never have had a loss.


I think Spyder understands your point perfectly but is taking the opportunity to bust your balls. If not, hopefully Rusty can talk to him when they are sleeping in their comfy bunk beds tonight.
Spyder
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 18 2009, 11:53 PM) *
Nah, it isn't being passed around. They have mentioned it before a while back. While we are at it, we may as well get all the brothers out. blackbelt and ROLL DEEP are brothers, and my brother is Jaranda. Any more guys want to own up? laugh.gif

I agree that boxing maths doesn't work, but Spyder doesn't see what I am saying or see how it's possible that I could pick a guy to win even though I don't rank the guy higher. That's where the whole idea of 'styles makes fights' comes from. That's why we see things like Mayorga beating Forrest, Margarito beating Cotto. If it was as simple as the guy that wins is always better than Ray Robinson should never have had a loss.

You're a fucking moron.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (Spyder @ Nov 19 2009, 12:42 PM) *
You're a fucking moron.


No no you ain't alright Spider!

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