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Full Version: How can PAC break PBF's shoulder defense?
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martiniko
Experts... how do you break this?
Box in Hand
QUOTE (martiniko @ Nov 16 2009, 01:36 PM) *
Experts... how do you break this?



Most old timers will tell you to hit the body and shoulders. Pac can go all night to the body which may open the shell. Only one person has had any luck with this and we all know who that was. A strong jab to the lead shoulder like Oscar used can also work but Manny's reach isn't long enough. Pac will need to use feints to lure Money into mistakes. The problem is, that Mayweather is an intelligent fighter who rarely makes mistakes. Roach and Pac have a serious job in frony of them. There aren't that many people who can use the Philly shell any more so sparring is always difficult in preparing for Mayweather.
MarzB
May's defense isn't anything new in boxing. It's pretty much a Philly shell defense but what Mayweather does is he combines his great reflexes along with countering ability that makes it damn near impregnable.

Feints and lateral movement can penetrate it but those are the least of Pac's problems. Pac doesn't throw hardly any feints so we can throw that one out.
JD
I wouldn't agree that Pac doesn't throw any feints at all...he has begun to feint a lot more recently. He waits for his opponents to see his attack, when they think they adjust, he feints and comes in at a different angle.

I think he needs to be accurate and not shoot for the head and try and make Floyd fight back with him...if Floyd feels as though he is losing rounds on activity, he will be more apt to stand with him.

But completely breaking the shoulder roll is not something Pac can really do, because he isn't a big, strong welter. He is helped by being a southpaw though.
caneman
my balls itch!
caneman
I think JD has something there and I'll be back when this shit is not on a cell phonr!!!
JD
I definitely think Pac can land on Floyd...it will be harder than any of his last bunch of fights, but he can land.

I have seen Floyd get hit more by southpaws in his few fights with them than conventional fighters...think of the first 4 or 5 rounds of the Judah fight, or even Chop Chop hurting Floyd.

This fight is interesting to me.
torvix2000
LOL!!! Roach is salivating at the prospect of testing PBF's shoulder defense.

Floyd has holes in it. But the holes are presented in angles where his opponents could not powerfully, quickly, and comfortably slip punches.

Pacquiao, will all his angles and quick powerful punches, will have a field day on Floyd's defense. He's gotta run.
D-MARV
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Nov 16 2009, 07:08 PM) *
LOL!!! Roach is salivating at the prospect of testing PBF's shoulder defense.

Floyd has holes in it. But the holes are presented in angles where his opponents could not powerfully, quickly, and comfortably slip punches.

Pacquiao, will all his angles and quick powerful punches, will have a field day on Floyd's defense. He's gotta run.

LMAO.
Spyder
Roach already had a shot at Floyd's shoulder roll, and his choice was to press him.
caneman
QUOTE (JD @ Nov 16 2009, 06:25 PM) *
I definitely think Pac can land on Floyd...it will be harder than any of his last bunch of fights, but he can land.

I have seen Floyd get hit more by southpaws in his few fights with them than conventional fighters...think of the first 4 or 5 rounds of the Judah fight, or even Chop Chop hurting Floyd.

This fight is interesting to me.



Chop chop rocked PBoiF & Cotto badly yet Pac can't? Yet as much as I hate the fuck....PBoiF by a score of 115-113 yet I hope it's a brutal KO by Pacman!
leonthegee
thats easy he can't break it.
MarzB
It's not just the philly shell thats a problem, in addition to the counter punching, Floyd's footwork and balance is leaps and bounds better than Pac. Pac won't have a slow flat footed guy in front of him.
leonthegee
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Nov 16 2009, 05:08 PM) *
LOL!!! Roach is salivating at the prospect of testing PBF's shoulder defense.

Floyd has holes in it. But the holes are presented in angles where his opponents could not powerfully, quickly, and comfortably slip punches.

Pacquiao, will all his angles and quick powerful punches, will have a field day on Floyd's defense. He's gotta run.


before or after floyd puts him on his ass.
Keith
How does he break it.... attack, attack, attack. Thays how I see it. Manny ate a lot of punches from Cotto but he just kept coming and broke him. It wont be as easy against Pboif but he can make Floyd very uncomfortabe by making him fight at faster pace then Floyd likes. Although very fast with the hands and feet, Pboif likes to fight at a slow pace. Manny just keeps cranking it up round after round.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Nov 16 2009, 08:11 PM) *
before or after floyd puts him on his ass.



LOL. That reply still has me rolling. You are clearly sooooooo biased, but for some reason I can not stop laughing at this.
AussieLad
Pac certainly has a problem in the size department. His speed offsets the size discrepancy, when matched against most other fighters, but against floyd the speed will be fairly even.

This is a fight where he will have to win on activity and aggression, rather than clean punching. Its how oscar got the nod on one of the judges cards. Pac just needs to do it better than oscar
provo
I think manny is going 2 have trouble IMO there's NO WAY he can beat floyd, de la hoya and castillo are the closet to beat floyd and that's cause they had a Jab! Pac don't ,he's a south paw who is going 2 try and break floyds defense I think he's going to try and hit floyd on his left shoulder floyds tends to raise his elbow mayweather has a longer reach and will be able to counter all day ,yet pacs explosive offense will force mayweather to throw a lot more punches and that's going 2 be bad for pac ,mayweather is the most accurate puncher 2day and pac leaves himself open ,
Pac will bring out the best in floyd !
Floyd by KO in 9!
JLUVBABY
for pac to win this fight he will have to win it on shear activity.....
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (provo @ Nov 16 2009, 07:55 PM) *
I think manny is going 2 have trouble IMO there's NO WAY he can beat floyd, de la hoya and castillo are the closet to beat floyd and that's cause they had a Jab! Pac don't ,he's a south paw who is going 2 try and break floyds defense I think he's going to try and hit floyd on his left shoulder floyds tends to raise his elbow mayweather has a longer reach and will be able to counter all day ,yet pacs explosive offense will force mayweather to throw a lot more punches and that's going 2 be bad for pac ,mayweather is the most accurate puncher 2day and pac leaves himself open ,
Pac will bring out the best in floyd !
Floyd by KO in 9!


i dont think hoya came close to beating may... i gave hoya 3 rounds in that fight... just my opinion...
JD
I do not see Floyd stopping Pacquiao.
gbh32001
Pac throws his left with force and another left with short distance like a jab, that's his defense because when the hard punch was landing before his opponent can react another short left is landing.Watch Pac time and time again, he throws that straight left followed emmediately with another short left to set his right. That alone will break Floyd defense but if he is running all through out the 12 rounds Floyd will surely win.
provo
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 16 2009, 06:36 PM) *
i dont think hoya came close to beating may... i gave hoya 3 rounds in that fight... just my opinion...


JLUV I don't think so either ! But he did loose a split decision . So actually he's the closet 2 beat floyd ,I not saying he did I thought he got skooled and missed every punch he threw ! LOL
provo
QUOTE (gbh32001 @ Nov 16 2009, 07:35 PM) *
Pac throws his left with force and another left with short distance like a jab, that's his defense because when the hard punch was landing before his opponent can react another short left is landing.Watch Pac time and time again, he throws that straight left followed emmediately with another short left to set his right. That alone will break Floyd defense but if he is running all through out the 12 rounds Floyd will surely win.


I get what your saying ,but u gotta remember Floyd don't stand upright like most fighters do floyd has a wide stance kinda similiar to a nfl cornerback with that said pac will come into floyds zone ,floyd will then lean back and counter with that right hand all day!
King Eugene
Hmmm I dont know about this one. I think Manny has a chance of winning just off activity alone. I want to think that Floyd will get into his head before the fight with all the trash talking but..............he wont. I want to think Floyd will be able to sit back, stay on his bike, and counter using his reach advantage but..................he wont. The way Manny just darts in and out so damn fast he wont give Mayweather the same look that all his former opponents have. That being said Floyd will be forced to open up a little more. Not necessarily exchange with him but up his activity. He'll have to throw more than the straight right hand and rush in and hold. He'll have to jab jab throw that right hand and either clinch or get the hell up out of there and not go straight back either.

I'm a Mayweather fan but I think he loses unless he steps up his activity or just outright makes Manny miss all like he did Marquez but I dont see that happening.

Mayweather SD 12
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (JD @ Nov 16 2009, 09:44 PM) *
I do not see Floyd stopping Pacquiao.


I agree no way Floyd stops him.

Manny has shown that he can take a helluva punch in the Cotto fight and FLoyd is not a bigger puncher than Cotto.

uppercutking
StyleZ said it ALL "(LMAO)" Laughing My Ass Off That is what I think of doing when I hear talk of PBF losing to PAC-Man. That's even with Pac's impressive victory against Cotto. Mayweather is a different type of breed you feel me people come on. They, do not I repeat do not make fighters like Floyd any more. The point I like to make to all the haters and mainstream fans is the scary thing is we have never truly seen Floyd made to fight he is just that good he makes it look easy and if pac is as good as he has showed us up to this point against pbf then another side of mayweather that I think he has never had to bring out will come out of him and I wouldn't be shocked if he ends up stopping manny. I don't care what anyone says about floyd being boring the man is just that good he makes it look boring and he doesn't give a shit what other people think about him another reason i like him besides if I was that nice why would i ever take a chance of enduring any punishment even all you haters know that may has the ability to produce KO's and you all may get your wish cause pac-man might be the man to just ruffle PBF's feathers to the point where he's going to get mad and then I think manny is going to be in a lot of trouble. Bring on the hate!
Yo StyleZ I like the coming to america shit you got up and u got the haye fight off youtube right?
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 17 2009, 04:57 AM) *
Manny has shown he can take a punch and I wouldn't bet that Floyd stops him, but to suggest that Floyd can't hurt Pacquiao is laughable. Marquez is not a bigger puncher than (at 147) than Cotto or Floyd. You guys must have selective memory regarding Pacquiao not being able to get hurt.



You are right Fitz. And Floyd will hit Pac with a ton more right hands than Cotto did. Shit...I do not recall Cotto landing one effective right hand the whole fight. I thought the key to the fight was Cotto hitting Manny with right hands on the way in, but Cotto just was so ineffective with his right. I know Floyd is not a hard puncher, but he is a sharp puncher, and put that on top of the force of Pac stepping in and getting caught coming in with a right from Floyd could stun him. The punches you DON"T see are the ones that hurt you.
RiverSide
Surely this has been mentioned before but...

Pac is a southpaw.

You dont shoulder roll a southpaw.

Watch Floyd's previous fights against southpaws.

He goes high guard on them.
jlupi
They dont make them like floyd? Yeah, your right the guy stopped trully testing himself after castillo. He rides that 0 like its everything. The dude hasen't gone out of his way to fight the best in 7 friggin years
The Original MrFactor
Step to his left and hook him to the body or whatever he can hit. Manny is a southpaw. Floyds tendency is to duck into Manny's power. Floyd will change that up, like he did with Judah. He's a smart guy. He'll be more straight up. He'll square up more. That could work to Manny's advantage. That may make Floyd more conventional. I think Manny will just have to be the busier guy. Throw, throw, throw like he always does. His speed is amazing.

If Mayweather wins, its gonna be by stinking it out. He's gonna have to put Manny on his ass. Dont know if he's gonna be able to do that one because Manny's head is HUGE. I think Manny will beat Floyd by being the busier guy. May see a retiring on his stool stoppage. Fisrt things first though. Floyd has to agree to fight Manny...
neophyte7
MANNY'S HEAD IS HUGE and Floyds jab and right hand will be colliding on that big head all night.
torvix2000
QUOTE (RiverSide @ Nov 17 2009, 08:24 PM) *
Surely this has been mentioned before but...

Pac is a southpaw.

You dont shoulder roll a southpaw.

Watch Floyd's previous fights against southpaws.

He goes high guard on them.


And it's also weird that Floyd was getting tagged one shot at a time against Zab when Floyd, ironically, was doing his best (backing up, or not on the offense). Floyd put the pressure on Judah. I'm sure Pac would love that.
neophyte7
Mayweather had Judah on the verge of being stopped he was really giving it to Zabs body and head prior to the low blow in fact I recall in the sequence PBF was beginning to walk Zab down with body and head combos... Zab knew what was coming... Mayweather can be said to have coasted a bit, just a bit in his career choice of fights but he has not has soft touches, I mean how would Pac do against Carlos Baldomir???... but I cannot help but say that PBF has proven his greatness since an 18 or 19year old in terms of his ability. He simply is a gifted fighter, a great fighter. all around better than Pacquiao who will be suprised that PBF can crack hard. Mayweather will have a reach advantage and Pac will be in against someone and something he has never faced mentally as well as physically. Mayweather has faced all types of agression... Pac better proceed with caution or he will end up like Hatton for sure...
dominicbuilder9k1
QUOTE (gbh32001 @ Nov 16 2009, 05:35 PM) *
Pac throws his left with force and another left with short distance like a jab, that's his defense because when the hard punch was landing before his opponent can react another short left is landing.Watch Pac time and time again, he throws that straight left followed emmediately with another short left to set his right. That alone will break Floyd defense but if he is running all through out the 12 rounds Floyd will surely win.

Woooahhh!... hahaha, I agree with you "gbh"... Anyway, my answer to the question : Let Fred Roach do his thing and Pacquiao will implement... nevertheless, I'm sure it will be very difficult for Pacquiao to win because I just learn Mayweather is going to hire Usain Bolt as his trainer if the Pacquiao fight materialize... If you read this comment and you do not know who is Usain Bolt..?..better ask...hehehe
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