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Nay_Sayer
Thoughts?
STEVENSKI
Most def
BigG
Yep Hearns was robbed in that one.
King Eugene
Ah so what Hearns whipped Duran's ass!
JD
The scoring in that fight was a joke. Outside of winning at least half the rounds, Hearns dropped Leonard twice.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JD @ Nov 17 2009, 08:38 AM) *
The scoring in that fight was a joke. Outside of winning at least half the rounds, Hearns dropped Leonard twice.


Been a long time since I seen that fight but I was okay with the decision. I also remember Ray having Hearns hurt badly twice and pounding on him too pretty good. Just don't ask me who my idol was growing up.
Jack 1000
Yes,

Hearns won by 2-4 points. One of Harold Lederman's worst cards. On the HBO replay he called it a draw. Remember that HBO used to suck up to Leonard like they now do with Golden Boy Promotions fighters, so there's a little history there. Ray used to be an HBO/CBS commutator, "There's no sweat on either guy's body, someone could go down early."

Leonard-Hearns II was at the time that the WBC which sanctioned the fight was encouraging the use of 10-8 rounds in dominating rounds even without a knockdown. One of the judges gave the last round to Leonard 10-8 when he had Hearns hurt badly, but Hearns railed well enough to prevent a 10-8 in the eyes of most viewers. If that round would have been scored 10-9 across the board for Leonard, Hearns would have won a split decision. It was the 10-8 round that forced the draw.

Jack
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Nov 17 2009, 12:43 PM) *
Yes,

Hearns won by 2-4 points. One of Harold Lederman's worst cards. On the HBO replay he called it a draw. Remember that HBO used to suck up to Leonard like they now do with Golden Boy Promotions fighters, so there's a little history there. Ray used to be an HBO/CBS commutator, "There's no sweat on either guy's body, someone could go down early."

Leonard-Hearns II was at the time that the WBC which sanctioned the fight was encouraging the use of 10-8 rounds in dominating rounds even without a knockdown. One of the judges gave the last round to Leonard 10-8 when he had Hearns hurt badly, but Hearns railed well enough to prevent a 10-8 in the eyes of most viewers. If that round would have been scored 10-9 across the board for Leonard, Hearns would have won a split decision. It was the 10-8 round that forced the draw.

Jack


Yeah... and Hearns held on for dear life John Ruiz style so he did not get KTFO in that last round. I guess it showed he learned something from there first fight.
Maxy
Yeah Hearns won that 2nd fight but if it had been 15 rounds like the first fight and not 12 he'd have got stopped again.
neophyte7
PLEASE ... THIS KLITSCHKO PICTURE IS GAY AS HELL... SPARE ME
BigG
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Nov 17 2009, 11:29 PM) *
PLEASE ... THIS KLITSCHKO PICTURE IS GAY AS HELL... SPARE ME


LOL
MarzB
Ray says it himself out of his own mouth. Save for Toney vs. Tiberi, I've never heard a fighter who either got the nod or escaped with a draw ever flat out admit it.

He gets credit for owning up to that and again he's said it on multiple occasions..
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (MarzB @ Nov 18 2009, 05:52 PM) *
Ray says it himself out of his own mouth. Save for Toney vs. Tiberi, I've never heard a fighter who either got the nod or escaped with a draw ever flat out admit it.

He gets credit for owning up to that and again he's said it on multiple occasions..


Yeah I heard Ray say it a few times myself over the years that Tommy won. Never heard Toney admit the Tiberi fight though. When? Years later? I remember watching that Toney fight live like it was yesterday. I think it was on CBS or something and I remember the pre-segment of him on the Treadmill and him throw a punch at the camera and they froze it. He almost stopped Tiberi in the first round by beating him all over the ring. But that was it for him, all the weight loss and lack of diet showed in this fight. To this day I can not believe they gave him the nod. I need to think about if there are any cases I can think of where a fighter admitted they deserved to lose though they got the win.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 18 2009, 11:07 PM) *
I know he didn't get the nod in the fight, but a lot of his fans think he did and say he got robbed. But Mosley admitted that he lost to Cotto.


I am a Mosley fan, obviously, and I was too scared to get the fight and watch it live. No actually I was away for the night and when I got back home I went on to see the result on the computer. I was upset he lost, but glad it was close from what I read. When I watched the replay, I can honestly say I thought Cotto deserved the nod, though very close. Maybe has a Mosley superfan, I would cry robbery, but we can all be biased to the fighters we root for.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (MarzB @ Nov 18 2009, 05:52 PM) *
Ray says it himself out of his own mouth. Save for Toney vs. Tiberi, I've never heard a fighter who either got the nod or escaped with a draw ever flat out admit it.

He gets credit for owning up to that and again he's said it on multiple occasions..

Yup..Ray knows he lost that fight and is a respectable guy for admitting it..Not many fighters would do this..Too many guys who just go on thinking they won the fight and would just say "well the judges saw me winning" and Ray steps out and says the judges were wrong for giving him the fight..
MarzB
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 19 2009, 12:05 AM) *
Yeah I heard Ray say it a few times myself over the years that Tommy won. Never heard Toney admit the Tiberi fight though. When? Years later? I remember watching that Toney fight live like it was yesterday. I think it was on CBS or something and I remember the pre-segment of him on the Treadmill and him throw a punch at the camera and they froze it. He almost stopped Tiberi in the first round by beating him all over the ring. But that was it for him, all the weight loss and lack of diet showed in this fight. To this day I can not believe they gave him the nod. I need to think about if there are any cases I can think of where a fighter admitted they deserved to lose though they got the win.


Yep. Last year ironically. Got to 1:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1oZBWjlbes

Great recall on that fight btw..
Jack 1000
QUOTE
Never heard Toney admit the Tiberi fight though. When? Years later? I remember watching that Toney fight live like it was yesterday.


Tony-Tiberi was on ABC in I believe February 1992 and I thought it was highway robbery. I had Tiberi ahead by at least 4 points (probably more.) Alex Wallow, called the post-fight commenting, "We are back with one of the most disgusting decisions I've seen." And he said that right in front of Toney. I remember Toney starting out well, even hurting Tiberi early in the fight, but I think with the exception of maybe one round after the third, the fight was all Tiberi.

I remember KO Magazine or Ring not making a big deal about the decision. They spent time coming up with worse decisions and readers were outraged that Toney-Tiberi was not a candidate for "Worst Decision of the Year." I call it one of boxing's worst verdicts. A smaller version of Lewis-Holyfield I. You could make the same case for Nelson-Fenech I or Foreman-Schultz. In a "Letter to the Editor", one reader said "Who was chairman of the judging selection committee, Jackie Kallin?"

Jack
Romulus9
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Nov 17 2009, 12:43 PM) *
Yes,

Hearns won by 2-4 points. One of Harold Lederman's worst cards. On the HBO replay he called it a draw. Remember that HBO used to suck up to Leonard like they now do with Golden Boy Promotions fighters, so there's a little history there. Ray used to be an HBO/CBS commutator, "There's no sweat on either guy's body, someone could go down early."

Leonard-Hearns II was at the time that the WBC which sanctioned the fight was encouraging the use of 10-8 rounds in dominating rounds even without a knockdown. One of the judges gave the last round to Leonard 10-8 when he had Hearns hurt badly, but Hearns railed well enough to prevent a 10-8 in the eyes of most viewers. If that round would have been scored 10-9 across the board for Leonard, Hearns would have won a split decision. It was the 10-8 round that forced the draw.

Jack



That judge was the one and only Dalby Shirley. NO WAY that was a 10-8 round. Want to see a 10-8 round without a knockdown? Round 12 of Juan Manuel Lopez vs. Rogers Mtagwa on October 10. Hearns answered back well enough. Didn't win the round but it wasn't an extra point.

At least Shirley had it a draw. Tom Kaczmarek had LEONARD WINNING 113-112. That's awful. Hearns absolutely dominated that fight. Leonard won 5 and 12 clearly, but Hearns was in total control for most of the night. I had it wider than you did, Jack. I have no idea what Kaczmarek, Shirley, or Lederman were watching. In fact, I don't know what Jerry Roth was watching and he had Hearns winning... but only by a point.

Absolutely DREADFUL decision and, yet, not close to the worst I've ever seen. When it's so bad that even Leonard says he lost the fight, it's pretty obvious.
Romulus9
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Nov 19 2009, 11:33 AM) *
Tony-Tiberi was on ABC in I believe February 1992 and I thought it was highway robbery. I had Tiberi ahead by at least 4 points (probably more.) Alex Wallow, called the post-fight commenting, "We are back with one of the most disgusting decisions I've seen." And he said that right in front of Toney. I remember Toney starting out well, even hurting Tiberi early in the fight, but I think with the exception of maybe one round after the third, the fight was all Tiberi.

I remember KO Magazine or Ring not making a big deal about the decision. They spent time coming up with worse decisions and readers were outraged that Toney-Tiberi was not a candidate for "Worst Decision of the Year." I call it one of boxing's worst verdicts. A smaller version of Lewis-Holyfield I. You could make the same case for Nelson-Fenech I or Foreman-Schultz. In a "Letter to the Editor", one reader said "Who was chairman of the judging selection committee, Jackie Kallin?"

Jack



Nelson-Fenech I was awful, and I'm a big fan of The Professor (loved the rematch!). I had Foreman beating Schulz 115-113. That's another discussion for another day.

I think the worst decision I've ever seen in the sport is Foreman-Briggs, but Toney-Tiberi is up there. The worst decisions are always the ones that leave you shocked before you get angry. I was angry after Whitaker-Chavez. I was SHOCKED by Foreman-Briggs... then I threw a chair across the room but that's neither here nor there.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (MarzB @ Nov 19 2009, 10:49 AM) *
Yep. Last year ironically. Got to 1:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1oZBWjlbes

Great recall on that fight btw..


Damn Marz...thanks. 1st the Benn-Eubank interview,now this. That was def cool he adlitted he got a gift.

First fight I seen of Toney live was on USA TNF in 89-90 against Morefield. Something about that fight had me hyped on him. Seen everyone of his televised fights after that. Seen him fight live too, which was awesome! Me and one of my best friends watched him KO Nunn in 91, and to this day me and that same friend still watch fights together on a regular basis. And Toney is still both our favorite fighter.
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