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Nay_Sayer
I'm not making any accusations, just wanted to get everyone's thoughts.
Snoop
Well, he has carried the weight fairly well from all the weight classes, and apparently from other posters who are more informed on the topic than I am has said he's shown symptoms of steroid use i.e. big headedness. But I still think the accusations are unfair because the only reason they have to suspect him is due to him fighting well.
King Eugene
If not Roids this fucka is on head enlargements and I'm not talking about Enzyte either.
thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 18 2009, 11:55 PM) *
it doesn't just look like extra weight around the cheeks.


Just a little Botox baby...

The legend of the THE Pacquiao continues to grow...

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

MABUHAY!!!!!

laugh.gif
The Original MrFactor
I've been dropping hints all along... I think he is. He beat Cotto, who was arguable the BEST guy he's ever fought, easily. He went up in weight to do so. He beat Cotto worse than he beat Diaz. This guy has climbed up in weight with no loss in speed or power. His head is now the size of a watermelon. Is he using HGH or something that blocks myostatin? Eventually it will come out.

if he's doing all of this honest, then all credit. I dont blame people for being suspicious. I just didnt want to sound like a hater because I picked Cotto to win this easily. If it comes out that Manny juices, then Cotto should sue Arum for billions. He put Cotto in with 2 cheaters who gave hime beatings that probably took years off the guys life. Cotto is a classy guy and deserves better.
salvador
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Nov 19 2009, 03:49 AM) *
I've been dropping hints all along... I think he is. He beat Cotto, who was arguable the BEST guy he's ever fought, easily. He went up in weight to do so. He beat Cotto worse than he beat Diaz. This guy has climbed up in weight with no loss in speed or power. His head is now the size of a watermelon. Is he using HGH or something that blocks myostatin? Eventually it will come out.

if he's doing all of this honest, then all credit. I dont blame people for being suspicious. I just didnt want to sound like a hater because I picked Cotto to win this easily. If it comes out that Manny juices, then Cotto should sue Arum for billions. He put Cotto in with 2 cheaters who gave hime beatings that probably took years off the guys life. Cotto is a classy guy and deserves better.


Perfect post.
STEVENSKI
Bla bla bla. There has NEVER been any hint of Pac juicing whatsoever. He has NEVER failed a pre or post fight drugs test. I don't see any tangiable link between roids & Pac I just don't. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Nov 19 2009, 04:53 AM) *
Bla bla bla. There has NEVER been any hint of Pac juicing whatsoever. He has NEVER failed a pre or post fight drugs test. I don't see any tangiable link between roids & Pac I just don't. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

I'm with you Steve..

Can someone post these pics of his head??I have never noticed anything but wanna see some evidence..
ROLL DEEP
Or post a picture of his ball bag.


Using steroids causes your ball bag to shrink as you body is getting testosterone from an outside source, so your body stops producing it, thus it cause your nuts to shrink.




Or so I've been told laugh.gif
gbh32001
What Pacquiao done in the ring is a stuff of a legend. Where in the 3rd world country can produce a ghost HGH? When people can't fathom the miracle they are watching people want a logical explanation to believe and when they can't find they will find holes and that's what Dan Brown is doing to create controversy. Enjoy him while you can, boxer like him comes only once in a lifetime.
JLUVBABY
Pacs head is huge!!! lets say he is on roids which i dont believe... i dont think pac would be aware he's getting them... maybe he thinks he's taking "vitamins"...lol... just sayin.. personally i dont think he's on roids but what do i know... lol..
STEVENSKI
Maybe he has a bighead because he has a great boxing brain?
BigG
I don't think Manny's on roids but he is basically superhuman with his speed and endurance.
STEVENSKI
I think he seriously just trains old school on his cardio. A lot of fighters these days fight a low weight & that affects their ability to fight 12 hard rounds. I can't remember the last time I have seen Pac tired in a fight. By exhausted I mean absolutely spent with nothing in the tank.
Douchebag
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Nov 19 2009, 04:53 AM) *
Bla bla bla. There has NEVER been any hint of Pac juicing whatsoever. He has NEVER failed a pre or post fight drugs test. I don't see any tangiable link between roids & Pac I just don't. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?



If you don't agree than say you don't agree but don't be a hypocrite about it. You go around accusing Roy Jones of the same thing and he hasn't been proven guilty either. As for Manny until there is proof he is legit in my book. That's why I say let them all juice. Just Imagine what kind of fight it would have been on Sat if they both would have been on the juice.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Nov 19 2009, 01:26 PM) *
If you don't agree than say you don't agree but don't be a hypocrite about it. You go around accusing Roy Jones of the same thing and he hasn't been proven guilty either. As for Manny until there is proof he is legit in my book. That's why I say let them all juice. Just Imagine what kind of fight it would have been on Sat if they both would have been on the juice.


Look Roy tested positive. Fitz provided the evidence previously. As for letting them all juice I could not thing of anything worse.
BigG
What Roy Jones Jr. tested positive for was not exactly performing enhancing drugs...
STEVENSKI
Don't spoil my moment G. Roy failed a drug test just like he got knocked out by Johnson. Wooooooo Wooooooo!
torvix2000
Maybe if other fighters today train for 20 rounds just like the fighters of yesteryears. And Filipinos commonly have big heads. LOL!

hgh/steroids are not good for boxers which depend on a lot of complex neural activities.

I thought Mosley used EPO which is to be injected? Enlighten me. EPO stimulates red cell production and more red cells translates to stamina? And Mosley's hematocrit count was unusually high? And even then, I though Mosley's stamina was just ordinary relative to his other performances.
provo
Im sorry but Pac is on that Barry bonds shit LOL , that HGH , if you look back of Oct 2007 when he fought JMM at 130 lbs pac was tiny Now Nov 14 2009 he's fighting at 145lbs that's 15 pounds of mass muscle not fat , I mean u can gaine the much drinking beer and shit ,but pure muscle ??? Pac trains 2 months before a fight , so say he fight twice a year,so 4 months out the year he's training ??? WOW !
If anyone would have said back in Oct 2007 pac vs cotto we all would be like wtf cotto is way to big , last saturday pac was bigger than him LOL ...
torvix2000
LOL! So Pac used HGH to build up muscles against DLH and then went back to 138 to fight Hatton? Would that be bad kinda like Roy Jones getting KOED?
salvador
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Nov 19 2009, 05:53 AM) *
Bla bla bla. There has NEVER been any hint of Pac juicing whatsoever. He has NEVER failed a pre or post fight drugs test. I don't see any tangiable link between roids & Pac I just don't. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?


The hints would be that he used to be skinny and now he looks like a roided up body builder and somehow he's getting stronger and faster and more durable relative to his opponents as he moves up in weight.

I thought the Diaz comparison was perfect. Pac had an easier time with Cotto than with David Diaz at 135 just 16 months earlier. That's kind of strange don't you think?

Obviously there hasn't been any proof, but if there was proof someday it's not like anyone could possibly be shocked by it.
KookedKrack
I don't like to accuse but if it came up that he was on something I would not be surprised.
torvix2000
Okay, let's take this one at a time.

About Pac's big head. Most Filipinos have big heads in relation to their bodies.

torvix2000
The following pictures were ages ago and look how ripped Pacquiao's body was. His opponent looked soft.


torvix2000


A picture fighting Ledwaba. Pacquiao brought his ripped body from home.
Snoop
QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Nov 19 2009, 11:24 AM) *
Or post a picture of his ball bag.


Using steroids causes your ball bag to shrink as you body is getting testosterone from an outside source, so your body stops producing it, thus it cause your nuts to shrink.




Or so I've been told laugh.gif

ROLL just wants to see a picture of some nuts. The more famous the pair, the better. LOL.
WolfishPromistah
These speculations can remind me of how doctors will say something is good at one time, before following up the next year with alerts to the public on how bad the same thing is and how it’s to thus be avoided. Pac passes his drug tests and is reported as someone who really works extremely hard to be at his best shape for competition. It would in fact be a surprise to find that he juiced up, salvador.

The fact that Pac has gotten better can explain why he had an easier time with Cotto. Skill level does tend to improve dramatically for many people when they work to improve it. Moreover, Pac’s team uses what may be considered strange methods to help him improve. What goes into it, in my opinion, is akin to how natural foods are better for us than supplements we consume. We know that natural foods are better. Nevertheless, how often is it we go to the doctor and receive either a great new diet regimen or “non-Capitalistically-approved,” though otherwise effective, solution that produces natural and positive results that the medicines prescribed “instead” are used to fight against?

Maybe Manny really is working that hard, and with a fast metabolism he’s supposed to have (Roach says this is the case), it may not be such a stretch to see good things from it. For me, one thing that comes to mind is a particular “stick exercise” I saw displayed in Pac’s training on YouTube. Supposedly, it’s an old beat the skin style toughening method to strengthen one both mentally and physically, and there’s absolutely nothing illegal about it. Maybe there is also something in this faith Manny has for what he calls God, bringing all things possible – destroying the seeming impossible. My thought there -- Sure, the thought of that “might be reaching,” but what do I know for sure? If that’s enough for him and it’s helped him to this level, more power to him – speed too, for that matter (wink).

Thanks.
jlupi
I think all top athleas are subject to speculation now. FM Sr's accusations are in bad taste to say the least since their is absolutely no proof the guy has ever touched the stuff.
salvador
QUOTE (WolfishPromistah @ Nov 19 2009, 10:31 AM) *
Pac passes his drug tests and is reported as someone who really works extremely hard to be at his best shape for competition. It would in fact be a surprise to find that he juiced up, salvador.

The fact that Pac has gotten better can explain why he had an easier time with Cotto. Skill level does tend to improve dramatically for many people when they work to improve it.


How many drug tests has Barry Bonds passed? Mark McGuire? Shane Mosley? Agassi? Passing drug tests is what expensive/shady doctors are for.

The issue with Cotto wasn't that Pac's footwork or his right hand haven't improved over time, they clearly have and both were huge factors in his win. My point with Cotto was that Pac was able to take some stiff shots from Cotto almost as if they were coming from a lw, which was pretty unbelievable to me given that Pac began his career at 108. And Pac's power was more impressive at 147 than at 126, which is also curious. And he seems to have gotten faster (certainly relative to his opponents) as he's moved up in weight.

Pac is the most exciting guy in the sport right now and it would be another heartbreaking blow to find out that he's been using illegal substances, but at the same time it wouldn't be surprising, at least it wouldn't to me.

torvix2000
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Nov 19 2009, 02:04 PM) *
Okay, let's take this one at a time.

About Pac's big head. Most Filipinos have big heads in relation to their bodies.




QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Nov 19 2009, 02:10 PM) *
The following pictures were ages ago and look how ripped Pacquiao's body was. His opponent looked soft.





QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Nov 19 2009, 02:15 PM) *


A picture fighting Ledwaba. Pacquiao brought his ripped body from home.

torvix2000
So, we can now go to Pac's ability to take a punch?
Tha Docta
no athlete is above suspicion in sports today. i have a feeling that alot of fighters are doing HGH. and since fighters dont give blood samples, they will never be able to detect HGH. EPO seems like it would be the drug of choice for fighters since it drastically increases endurance by providing the blood with more oxygen.

manny admitted that cotto hurt him a few times. but theres also a reason why they made cotto fight at 145lbs. and that was to weaken him and diminish his power / stamina. cotto admitted this in his post fight interview.
WolfishPromistah
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Nov 19 2009, 09:51 AM) *
So, we can now go to Pac's ability to take a punch?



Most assuredly, torvix thumbsup_anim.gif

Glad you mentioned the contents in your last submittal, salvador, which is why my mentioning the particular ‘stick to toughen skin exercise' that is done to help Pacquiao was done as well before. Again, it supposedly works wonders for performance + other hard work and a driving force of faith, in Pac's case, to battle hardships / things that'd otherwise hold Pac back in spirit, etc.

When we “really” get down to it, perhaps it’s simply been Pac’s time (putting in hella hard work for the best results his body can manage), which..."wouldn't" surprise me necessarily. Thanks.
jlupi
A big head is a side effect og HGH not steroids. The interesting fact about HGH is that research shows it decreases fat and muscle mass increase was largely attributed to water retention. actual strength and stamina were not effected.

Of course body builders that claim it works are using it in combination w steroids and at higher dosages than used in human research .
jlupi
and since fighters dont give blood samples, they will never be able to detect HGH. EPO seems like it would be the drug of choice for fighters since it drastically increases endurance by providing the blood with more oxygen.

manny admitted that cotto hurt him a few times. but theres also a reason why they made cotto fight at 145lbs. and that was to weaken him and diminish his power / stamina. cotto admitted this in his post fight interview>>>>>>


HGH is non detectable due to its natural occurance and its normal range varies wildly due to excercise, time of day, stress ect...

I agree w EPO prob drug of choice.

Since cotto was being forced to weigh in 1lb under his prev weight. I think the effect was meant to be psychological.
torvix2000


Tha Docta
HGH is detectable by a blood test. the olympics have a test for this and use it.

and while HGH may not make you stronger, it helps to retain muscle mass and also helps incredibly with muscle recovery after workouts. what HGH really does is allow you to train your ass off while allowing the muscles to recover at a very fast rate.

i believe the extra weight cotto had to shed made him easy pickens later in the fight. it also diminished his punching power somewhat after a few rounds.
WolfishPromistah
Pac said he played a psyche game with Cotto. He endured the pressure and defeated the "supposedly" stronger man, almost David against Goliath style. He surprised "the giant," Cotto, and won. See, the thing to that exercise is that it is to help one take the pains, to basically forget they exist; of course, that part is mental. There'd additionally be the benefit that the same exercise works on muscles in the body by strengthening them on a micro level. In essence, the body itself is "like it thinks" it cannot be hurt; therefore, it is not.

What I gather from it is, through hard work and faith, a possibly stringent aim of the Pacquiao team is to connect what we call the living spirit's power to our physical life -- hehe. The result being, and all respect to their faith and dedication to what we do not know are illegal methods, they' gon' put some "voo-doo" on you. Congrats again, "Mr. Miracle Man," Manny Pacquiao! The kid's on an all-time role. Big ups to those who said he'd win again.
Lil-lightsout
Is Pac on the juice? I have not a clue.
Douchebag
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 19 2009, 11:58 AM) *
Is Pac on the juice? I have not a clue.


basically
D-MARV
Im not going to say he is but I wouldn't be shocked if he was. He's a Beast!
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Nov 19 2009, 01:49 AM) *
I've been dropping hints all along... I think he is. He beat Cotto, who was arguable the BEST guy he's ever fought, easily.

Cotto better than Marquez and Morales?

I don't think so...
Douchebag
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Nov 19 2009, 02:20 PM) *
Cotto better than Marquez and Morales?

I don't think so...



relative to size you could argue that. it's hard to imagine either of those guys last 12 rounds with Cotto even though they were "better".
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (provo @ Nov 19 2009, 07:18 AM) *
If anyone would have said back in Oct 2007 pac vs cotto we all would be like wtf cotto is way to big , last saturday pac was bigger than him LOL ...

Yep. Had anyone said back in 2007 that Pac was KO'ing Cotto we would have thought him to be crazy...
iron_mike
Wouldn't he fail a drug test???? Isn't it that plain and simple??? I'm no dr, but don't they test boxers for whatever performance enhancing anything? Or even illegal 'drugs'?? Wasn't a Tyson fight changed to a NC (Golota I'm 99% sure) bc he tested positive for marijuana???
The Original MrFactor
Dont fighters take piss tests and not blood tests? Arent there things in blood that dont show up in piss tests and vice versa?
Tha Docta
hgh is not detectable with the piss tests they currently use. even steroid use is easily hidden since the fighters know exactly when they are going to be tested. the way its setup now, its waaaay too easy to use illegal substances and get in the ring.

HaydelHammer
QUOTE (Tha Docta @ Nov 19 2009, 03:41 PM) *
hgh is not detectable with the piss tests they currently use. even steroid use is easily hidden since the fighters know exactly when they are going to be tested. the way its setup now, its waaaay too easy to use illegal substances and get in the ring.


I concur.

Performance enhancing science is at an all time high.

they will always be playing catch up with these guys.

I didn't notice manny head size differential until I saw him and delahoya at their weight in, but I didn't think anything of it. Just figured he had a nice size DOME and that's why he won't cut his hair down. Probably look like KRANG or some sh*t

Thegreatequalizer
QUOTE (Nay_Sayer @ Nov 19 2009, 02:20 PM) *
Cotto better than Marquez and Morales?

I don't think so...


cotto is better, p4p, than morales. i've never seen cotto completely shut down like morales was with raheem and barrera III.
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