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King Eugene
Hopkins Wants Haye

QUOTE
By Mark Vester

It wasn't that long ago that Bernard Hopkins was considering a move to heavyweight for a bout with then WBC champion Oleg Maskaev. The fight never took place. He still wants a shot at some heavyweight gold. If on December 2 Hopkins beats Enrique Ornelas and Roy Jones Jr. beats IBO cruiserweight champion Danny Green - Jones and Hopkins will clash on March 13 in Las Vegas [the tentative date for Manny Pacquiao's return].

Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer told the LA Times that Hopkins, should he beat Jones, will target a fight with WBA heavyweight champion David Haye.

"And Hopkins wants to move up to fight David Haye if he wins [against Jones]," Schaefer said.

It's not the first time that Schaefer mentioned Hopkins' desire to fight Haye for a world title. Back in May, there was talk of Hopkins going up to cruiserweight to fight Tomasz Adamek and Haye was scheduled to face WBO/IBF champion Wladmir Klitschko in June. Neither fight happened. But at the time, Schaefer told BoxingScene.com that Hopkins' plan was to beat Adamek and then move to up to heavyweight meet Haye [if he would have beaten Klitschko].

Send News Tips and Comments To Mark Vester @ boxingvester@gmail.com


I have a couple questions...

Where does this leave James Toney?
Would Hopkins have enough power at HW to hurt Haye or keep Haye off of him?
ROLL DEEP
What?!

Haye would stop Hopkins I think. Haye is very fast and has a great punch. His power would be magnified fighting a smaller and older Hopkins too.


Toney would be a better opponent for Hopkins, imo.
Maxy
Haye would knock Hopkins out.

It would prove nothing.
The Original MrFactor
I think this is just talk. He dont want it with Haye. Haye is too fast and too big. Hopkins has trouble with fast guys. Haye is faster and bigger with power. He might stop Hopkins. If Hopkins fights and beats Haye, then he would be right up there with Ali and SRR. He would be as legendary, no joke. I'd love to see it happen, but it wont. The guy is 45 beating up on guys who are young enough to be his kids. Haye would make him look 45, imo...
streetlion1
I too think this is all just talk but IF it were to happen....Haye is not stopping B-Hop! Lets just say Hopkins was able to move up in weight with no problem....I can see him giving Haye alot of trouble. Haye has been over in Europe beating alot of bums and has never had to deal with anyone with the skill of Hopkins. Now true I would have to see what kind of shape and how he looks in his next 2 fights...but just to write Hopkins off against a guy whos fought a bunch of nobodys is nonsense. I could see B-Hop losing a decision but not being stopped.....I can also see him roughing pretty boy Haye up and giving him a boxing lesson.
Method
Fuck that. I would never count Hopkins out of any fight.

If he moved up to heavy, Im pretty sure he'd be able to hang w Haye. Obviously its pure spec, but I doubt they're just idly calling Haye out. until Hopkins gives me a reason to pick against him, I'd take him over Haye. Haye's chin is suspect, and Hopkins is just too good a fucking boxer.
Douchebag
QUOTE (Method @ Nov 19 2009, 10:59 AM) *
Fuck that. I would never count Hopkins out of any fight.

If he moved up to heavy, Im pretty sure he'd be able to hang w Haye. Obviously its pure spec, but I doubt they're just idly calling Haye out. until Hopkins gives me a reason to pick against him, I'd take him over Haye. Haye's chin is suspect, and Hopkins is just too good a fucking boxer.



Aside from the power advantage I think the biggest factor as to why I would have favor Haye is the fact that he has pretty good feet. He won't stationary like Kelly and eventhough he probably won't stop B-Hop I could see him winning a clear decision.
Snoop
Hopkins usually takes fights because he sees something he can exploit. I've always made money in fights where he's been the underdog, i.e. Tarver, Pavlik, and I don't think I'd stop now.
Lil-lightsout
I would favor Haye for a few reasons. Power, speed, youth, and desire. I would have the ultimate respect for Hops if he would fight Haye. I mean Haye is a huge fast puncher who KO'd Mormeck who is no joke. I think Hops could be successful against some heavyweights today, I just think Haye is the wrong one. I mean I wonder how much weight could Hops put on comfortably without hurting his performance? I know Hops would make it interesting in there, but I think Haye just has too many physical advantages. But if Hops could surprise me and beat a Haye, should have never doubted him.
moscow bear
QUOTE (Method @ Nov 19 2009, 04:59 PM) *
Fuck that. I would never count Hopkins out of any fight.

If he moved up to heavy, Im pretty sure he'd be able to hang w Haye. Obviously its pure spec, but I doubt they're just idly calling Haye out. until Hopkins gives me a reason to pick against him, I'd take him over Haye. Haye's chin is suspect, and Hopkins is just too good a fucking boxer.


I am getting a lot of shit over at boxrec for picking Hopkins in this fight, glad to see I am not the only one.
ROLL DEEP
I agree with Conscience.


Haye is very fleet footed and Hopkins at this stage, whilst very shrewd in close, might not be able to keep up with Haye. Shoot, you saw Haye run around the ring against Valuev....and I know Hopkins is better at closing the ring down, but even with Valuev being 7ft, he couldn't touch Haye.


I've learned not to pick against Hopkins too hastily, but I don't think he'd win this fight. I could see Hopkins blocking and covering a lot of Haye's shots and landing some sneaky counters, but I think Haye will come up with a good boxing plan and stick to it. He's not an idiot in the ring - he can be disciplined and box smart.


Haye's got good pedigree too. He scored a VERY impressive KO of Mormeck and whilst his resume isn't outstanding, he's beaten some good, solid opponents.

I don't like to count Hopkins out, as he's one of my all time favourites, but I just think Haye will beat him.


moscow bear
QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Nov 19 2009, 06:01 PM) *
I agree with Conscience.


Haye is very fleet footed and Hopkins at this stage, whilst very shrewd in close, might not be able to keep up with Haye. Shoot, you saw Haye run around the ring against Valuev....and I know Hopkins is better at closing the ring down, but even with Valuev being 7ft, he couldn't touch Haye.


I've learned not to pick against Hopkins too hastily, but I don't think he'd win this fight. I could see Hopkins blocking and covering a lot of Haye's shots and landing some sneaky counters, but I think Haye will come up with a good boxing plan and stick to it. He's not an idiot in the ring - he can be disciplined and box smart.


Haye's got good pedigree too. He scored a VERY impressive KO of Mormeck and whilst his resume isn't outstanding, he's beaten some good, solid opponents.

I don't like to count Hopkins out, as he's one of my all time favourites, but I just think Haye will beat him.


dude I was THERE when he kod Mormeck......it was sudden but not impressive....it just came from nowhere. He did manage to survive the early rounds and get back in the fight, so maybe this was impressive. But...If Mormeck could get him in serious trouble so can Hopkins.
ROLL DEEP
QUOTE (moscow bear @ Nov 19 2009, 12:09 PM) *
dude I was THERE when he kod Mormeck......it was sudden but not impressive....it just came from nowhere. He did manage to survive the early rounds and get back in the fight, so maybe this was impressive. But...If Mormeck could get him in serious trouble so can Hopkins.



I remember the actual KO punch being a beautiful shot?

Maybe I'm getting it totally mixed up laugh.gif but I do remember it being a cracking punch.
streetlion1
Holyfield was able to move around Valuev and out box him....Haye still hasnt seen anyone in Hopkins class. I'd favor Hopkins because no matter what plan Haye came up with for him B-Hop and Naazim would definitely have a plan for Haye!

All this is just talk though....I expect Hopkins to beat Jones Jr.....then give Chad Dawson an ass whoopin and retire.


I wanna see Haye fight James Toney!!!!
moscow bear
QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Nov 19 2009, 06:11 PM) *
I remember the actual KO punch being a beautiful shot?

Maybe I'm getting it totally mixed up laugh.gif but I do remember it being a cracking punch.


yes it was.... but Mormeck does not have the best chin...
Method
QUOTE
but even with Valuev being 7ft, he couldn't touch Haye.


LOL. Are you kidding me? Valuev is a fucking mummy. A fucking Frankenstein.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Method @ Nov 19 2009, 12:29 PM) *
LOL. Are you kidding me? Valuev is a fucking mummy. A fucking Frankenstein.


Valuev is by far the worst champion I ever seen in my life. I am sure there are few fighters on this board with more skills than him.
D-MARV
Hopkins loses a competitive decison in my opinion. If Taylor out pointed Hopkins I can defintely see Haye outpointing him.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Nov 19 2009, 01:13 PM) *
Hopkins loses a competitive decison in my opinion. If Taylor out pointed Hopkins I can defintely see Haye outpointing him.

Yeah, that's about how I see it.

Haye has some of the same qualities as Taylor, ie he's young, fast, and strong. Plus, @ HW, I don't think BHop will have the punch to discorage Haye.

Haye UD 116-112
mrwigi
yea, ive learned to never really bet against hopkins... but it all depends on which hopkins shows up...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (mrwigi @ Nov 19 2009, 08:00 PM) *
yea, ive learned to never really bet against hopkins... but it all depends on which hopkins shows up...


wtf.gif
MarzB
Hopkins is a man and at the end he will meet his match. It's crazy for him to look this far ahead first and foremost.

Can someone tell me when Hopkins looked good in the last 5 years with a fighter with fast hands?? Now we're talking about someone not only with fast but heavy hands also. He better focus on Roy Jones and Chad Dawson before thinking of climbing this hill.

I don't care how much of a vegetarian, healthy lifestyle he has. Every dog has their day and he's already pushing it..
Byrd Man
There's virtually no chance of this happening.

First off, Haye has to fight Ruiz. If he tries to sidetrack and fight someone else, Ruiz' lawyers will sue the everliving shit out of Haye and anyone who sanctions it.

So after Haye's mandatory, he's gotta fight Valuev again doesn't he? I know I read that there's a rematch clause in there, and I can't imagine they're gonna just sit back and let him go and fight someone else.

So when's he supposed to fight the old man? in 2011 when Bernard is gonna be 45/46?

I doubt this will happen, although it might be a decent fight.
King Eugene
I think Toney has a better shot at getting the decision over Haye. Hopkins would have problems with his hand speed and I dont believe he has enough pop to make Haye respect him. I'd still be rooting for Hopkins though cause you can never count this cat out. Hell he's not getting pass Jones so this isn't a fight we'd have to worry about. I just hope to God after Roy beats Hopkins he retires cause Roy facing Haye has brutal ending all over it. I think he makes it to the last bell against Dawson though.
xxxxxx
I would take Haye in this fight mainly because X is nearly 50 years old.lol But there's no way in hell Haye is knocking X out if the fight were to happen. Haye would prolly win a dec. based on activity.
Warlord
QUOTE (xxxxxx @ Nov 22 2009, 01:21 PM) *
Haye would prolly win a dec. based on activity.

No he wouldn't. Hopkins has shown excellent stamina as he's moved up in weight. Regardless of what anyone says, I really do think making 160 took it's toll on him, as far as stamina is concerned. I've not seen him have the problems above 160 that he was having at middle later in his career.

Against guys like Taylor Hopkins started slow and finished strong. After his move up he was able to maintain a decent pace throughout the fight.

At this point I think dismissing Hopkins outright would be ludicrous. Hopkins has never shown any problems whatsoever dealing with power or speed, which are the 2 (only)? things Haye has going for him. And the fact that he (Hopkins) would be in with a (somewhat) legit heavy would actually be cause, imo, to give Hopkins the edge in terms of stamina. There just aren't any heavies who can throw the amount of punches that middleweights do. Period. Especially if Haye looks anything like he did against Neanderthal Valuev.

That being said, I'm not dismissing Haye either. He's fast and he's got power, there's no doubt there. If Hopkins gets old over-night, Haye walks away with the win, and even a brutal KO isn't out of the question. But I don't think much of a fighter who pins his hopes on something like that. After all, it didn't turn out so well for Trinidad, Gay La Hoya, or Pavlik.

To me, at this point, it's a pick 'em. But I wouldn't count either one out.

In the end though, we are getting ahead of ourselves. Haye's gotta get past Ruiz (which I'm not even sure he will), while Hopkins has got business with Ornelas and Jones Jr.
xxxxxx
QUOTE (Warlord @ Nov 23 2009, 07:17 AM) *
No he wouldn't. Hopkins has shown excellent stamina as he's moved up in weight. Regardless of what anyone says, I really do think making 160 took it's toll on him, as far as stamina is concerned. I've not seen him have the problems above 160 that he was having at middle later in his career.

Against guys like Taylor Hopkins started slow and finished strong. After his move up he was able to maintain a decent pace throughout the fight.

At this point I think dismissing Hopkins outright would be ludicrous. Hopkins has never shown any problems whatsoever dealing with power or speed, which are the 2 (only)? things Haye has going for him. And the fact that he (Hopkins) would be in with a (somewhat) legit heavy would actually be cause, imo, to give Hopkins the edge in terms of stamina. There just aren't any heavies who can throw the amount of punches that middleweights do. Period. Especially if Haye looks anything like he did against Neanderthal Valuev.

That being said, I'm not dismissing Haye either. He's fast and he's got power, there's no doubt there. If Hopkins gets old over-night, Haye walks away with the win, and even a brutal KO isn't out of the question. But I don't think much of a fighter who pins his hopes on something like that. After all, it didn't turn out so well for Trinidad, Gay La Hoya, or Pavlik.

To me, at this point, it's a pick 'em. But I wouldn't count either one out.

In the end though, we are getting ahead of ourselves. Haye's gotta get past Ruiz (which I'm not even sure he will), while Hopkins has got business with Ornelas and Jones Jr.



I have always rooted for X. Iv'e enjoyed a lot of his fights even when others thought he was boring, but I would have to pick Haye by dec here if it ever happened. However, with that said, there is no way anybody is knocking out X at this point. He not only has a great chin, but his defense is too good to get knocked out. The dude has fought nearly 60 pro fights and I've never seen him in trouble and he has fought some of the best fighters out there over his hall of fame career.
Douchebag
Joe Calzaghe had B-Hop huffin and puffin. huh.gif
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (xxxxxx @ Nov 23 2009, 10:43 AM) *
I have always rooted for X. Iv'e enjoyed a lot of his fights even when others thought he was boring, but I would have to pick Haye by dec here if it ever happened. However, with that said, there is no way anybody is knocking out X at this point. He not only has a great chin, but his defense is too good to get knocked out. The dude has fought nearly 60 pro fights and I've never seen him in trouble and he has fought some of the best fighters out there over his hall of fame career.


I am not questioning Hops chin or toughness, but he was down twice to Mercado in there first fight. Does that mean anything? I don't know, but I know Haye hits really hard as is pretty fast too. So you never know. I too doubt Haye would stop Bernard, due to his defense and chin, but you just never know.
Douchebag
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 23 2009, 12:26 PM) *
I am not questioning Hops chin or toughness, but he was down twice to Mercado in there first fight. Does that mean anything? I don't know, but I know Haye hits really hard as is pretty fast too. So you never know. I too doubt Haye would stop Bernard, due to his defense and chin, but you just never know.



I think Bernards defence and craftiness is good enough to get out this fight relatively unscathed, but he still loses. At this point it would take a special fighter to even get a knockdown against Hops. Haye is not a special fighter, IMO.
streetlion1
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Nov 23 2009, 10:39 AM) *
Joe Calzaghe had B-Hop huffin and puffin. huh.gif

Yeah but B-Hop had the Roach in his corner and fought that kind of retreating fight due to CuntSlappys footspeed/movement...while Haye has speed it certainly doesnt equal Slappys...also I dont think much of the competition Haye has faced in his career....he would make it interesting at times because he has that power to worry about but B-Hop's defense is top-notch...I think Haye gets chopped up and loses a U.D.
Douchebag
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Nov 23 2009, 12:29 PM) *
Yeah but B-Hop had the Roach in his corner and fought that kind of retreating fight due to CuntSlappys footspeed/movement...while Haye has speed it certainly doesnt equal Slappys...also I dont think much of the competition Haye has faced in his career....he would make it interesting at times because he has that power to worry about but B-Hop's defense is top-notch...I think Haye gets chopped up and loses a U.D.



How many punches per round did Hops throw against Pavlik?
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Nov 23 2009, 12:29 PM) *
Yeah but B-Hop had the Roach in his corner and fought that kind of retreating fight due to CuntSlappys footspeed/movement...while Haye has speed it certainly doesnt equal Slappys...also I dont think much of the competition Haye has faced in his career....he would make it interesting at times because he has that power to worry about but B-Hop's defense is top-notch...I think Haye gets chopped up and loses a U.D.


The only thing is I wonder how much weight Hopkins would weigh, and would it hurt his performance. I would like to see Hops at Cruiserweight first to see what he looks like.
streetlion1
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Nov 23 2009, 11:31 AM) *
How many punches per round did Hops throw against Pavlik?

If I remember right he threw low 30's the first couple rounds and then averaged around 40-45 a round the rest of the fight.
Douchebag
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Nov 23 2009, 12:38 PM) *
If I remember right he threw low 30's the first couple rounds and then averaged around 40-45 a round the rest of the fight.



That's lightyears better than what he did against Calfaggy, who was a much more mobile target that forced Hop to use his legs. I can see Haye doing a lot of that and Hop not unloading a whole lot because of Hayes power. I just don't think this is good match up for Hop.


Advantages/Disadvantages
Age: Haye
Height: Haye
Reach: Haye
Speed: Haye
Power: Haye
Hunger: I have to got with Haye
Defense: Hop
Chin: Hop
Experience: Hop
Intangebles: Hop

The fight is basically going to come down to Haye's offense vs Hops defense. I think the activity will get to Hopkins.
Douchebag
double post
streetlion1
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Nov 23 2009, 11:59 AM) *
That's lightyears better than what he did against Calfaggy, who was a much more mobile target that forced Hop to use his legs. I can see Haye doing a lot of that and Hop not unloading a whole lot because of Hayes power. I just don't think this is good match up for Hop.


Advantages/Disadvantages
Age: Haye
Height: Haye
Reach: Haye
Speed: Haye
Power: Haye
Hunger: I have to got with Haye
Defense: Hop
Chin: Hop
Experience: Hop
Intangebles: Hop

The fight is basically going to come down to Haye's offense vs Hops defense. I think the activity will get to Hopkins.

It wouldnt surprise me totally...I mean Hopkins is 44....one of these fights you would think his age has to show up...but after the couple times he proved me wrong I wont bet against him. I think I would have to disagree on the hunger thing. B-Hops legacy seems to mean more to him than anything. I could see Hopkins disrupting Hayes timing and making it a rough fight...if B-Hop was seriously considering Haye he should make him drop down and fight at a catch weight.

Honestly though...this fight will never happen. Its too big a risk for Hopkins and he doesnt need it. I think after he beats Jones Jr. ...its Chad Dawson or retire.
Method
If he beats Jones, you can bet your ass he WILL NOT retire. He aint calling Haye out for nothing. I agree he needs to concentrate on what he actually has on his plate, as opposed to potential things down the line, but my guess is if he's calling Haye's name, its for a reason.

Until I see Hopkins loose, I'll take him over Haye. Hopkins could easily weight 190-200 and fight Haye. Hopkins has been in the ring w heavyweights before, and observers have gone on record as seeing him rock heavies in the gym. Hay's got a china chin, and Hopkins aint no Maccarenelli.

Still got a lot to do before a matchup w Haye can be discussed.
blackbelt2003
Agreed. B-Hop has got to get past Roy first, and whilst Roy is, at this stage of their careers, an inferior fighter to HOpkins, I think his style and intelligence in the ring will pose Bernard a lot of problems...certainly more than Pavlik did.


I think it will be a tight decision either way, so let's not get past that fight and discuss Haye just yet.




Black
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (blackbelt2003 @ Nov 23 2009, 02:42 PM) *
Agreed. B-Hop has got to get past Roy first, and whilst Roy is, at this stage of their careers, an inferior fighter to HOpkins, I think his style and intelligence in the ring will pose Bernard a lot of problems...certainly more than Pavlik did.


I think it will be a tight decision either way, so let's not get past that fight and discuss Haye just yet.




Black


Actually...lets not get past Jones and Hopkins fights they have on Dec. 2. We can talk Roy and Bernard if they both win in under two weeks.
Spyder
I don't see Hopkins having too much trouble with this guy...

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