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du365
Just wondering, I was talking to a buddy of mine and the topic of game plans vs adjustments came about ... I wanted to get an outside opinion on what you guys thought was most effective and if there a chance that a fighter/team can do both?

You see many fighters who don't watch film, who don't study their opponent, and who just let the fight come to them. Then you see fighters who study, break down their opponents, look for weaknesses, and try to exploit their opponent using a gameplan.

Thoughts???
gbh32001
QUOTE (du365 @ Nov 20 2009, 12:00 PM) *
Just wondering, I was talking to a buddy of mine and the topic of game plans vs adjustments came about ... I wanted to get an outside opinion on what you guys thought was most effective and if there a chance that a fighter/team can do both?

You see many fighters who don't watch film, who don't study their opponent, and who just let the fight come to them. Then you see fighters who study, break down their opponents, look for weaknesses, and try to exploit their opponent using a gameplan.

Thoughts???
Game plan is the first step towards winning and adjustments should be included in the game plan.
torvix2000
Most Effective - Unpredictability
MarzB
QUOTE (du365 @ Nov 19 2009, 11:00 PM) *
Just wondering, I was talking to a buddy of mine and the topic of game plans vs adjustments came about ... I wanted to get an outside opinion on what you guys thought was most effective and if there a chance that a fighter/team can do both?

You see many fighters who don't watch film, who don't study their opponent, and who just let the fight come to them. Then you see fighters who study, break down their opponents, look for weaknesses, and try to exploit their opponent using a gameplan.

Thoughts???


I could talk about this all day and this may get long but I'm not working so here we go. ABSOLUTELY you can do both. Your "gameplan" so to speak would be your strengths that you're going to use. Similarly to if you're a quick PG in basketball or a QB with a bullet for an arm. You can always make your move or make that through. However the other person/team (keeping this boxing specific now) may know that so you'll have to set that up (say you're strong right or whatever your pet combo is).

IMO to be a good fighter you're going to have to always adjust because everyone doesn't fight the same. I know that when we train, we train for a variety of styles so that we're atleast prepared how to assess those.

I believe film study is beneficial to look at tendencies as opposed to errors. But in amateurs you often don't have films so what I train the hand full of fighters I work with to do is not only train for different styles but train at different paces. By that I mean don't always throw a quick, stiff jab. Mix up the pace and see how they react to it. If they can block it at all paces, you know now that you have to adjust your jab or set it up to get through.

Sometimes you have a very aggressive fighter and while most people love that toe-to-toe stuff. I've always thought the best way to beat aggressive fighters is make them work more and make them miss. This will lead them to trying harder and forcing them outside of their technique which leads to openings and thus more counters. They keep getting hit and they're now in an area they've never been before. I'll give you a perfect example of this. One of the kids who I train with who happens to be a Mexican figther (and I say that only because he wants to get out of that style of being macho all the time but even he feels it's inate in him) I saw on a card that I had no idea he was on. He was fighting this other kid who looked really good. His family was there and all that cheering him on.

I asked him was he familiar with this kid and he said "yeah I sparred him". I said, "cool so you have an idea what to expect". I could see even before the kid threw a punch that he was quicker and stronger than Jon (the kids name). Before the round starts I'm hearing his family "kick his ass, knock him the fuck out", etc and I'm saying "NOOO" to myself. I'm saying, "pleaes don't go in and try to trade with this kid". Sure enough the bell rings and they go at it and Jon is honestly getting his ass kicked and his corner isn't saying a damn thing.

I run as close to the ring as I can and shout 'step-jab and pivot". He heard me and started executing it and was nailing the kid clearly. The kid was a bit winded from the flurry he threw. So now he's landing his jab interrupting that kids timing. At the end of the round he's turning around listening to me (no joke) and I say, "now we're gonna land the right off the jab and since he's expecting your jab, double it up. The opening will be there trust me". Sure enough it's happening exactly as I described. By the last round I'm telling him just stick with this you're way ahead on points but try to get some body work in".

The point to that story is he was initially coming with that all out, "I'm more macho than you bullschit and since you kicked my ass last time I'll show you. My family is here, blah, blah, blah" crap and his crap trainers weren't going to correct what he was doing. Heck they love watching two kids beat each other up quite frankly. But I don't see boxing as two pitbulls fighting unfortunately how most see it. I see it as a science. There was an example of one game plan where they were going to try to land something big on the kid where he had to adjust or he was going to be on the losing end.

I got some videos on youtube of me working with him if you want to see that but thats my take.
streetlion1
I would say adjustments are most important. Of course you have to know about your opponent and what they bring to the table as well as have a plan as to what you wanna do in the fight....but you cant game plan too much...you may be looking for your opponent to do one thing and he comes out and flips the script and throws you off. When I was fighting I always used to first couple rounds to feel the guy out and make the adjustments I needed to make. Another thing that may happen when you focus too much on a game plan is....paralysis by analysis....when you go out trying to be too perfect....its always best to be relaxed in the ring.
MarzB
.paralysis by analysis....when you go out trying to be too perfect....its always best to be relaxed in the ring.

This is a great statement and why I love boxing because there are so many parallels with life also. I was talking to a friend recently about a job interview and how they prepared for it. They told me, they did. "I was expecting those 'in 5 years questions' and they didn't come about",lol. They asked her more scenario based questions and because she was NERVOUS, she couldn't think of any.

Anyways, I see that happening in the ring a lot. I'm absolutely convinced (even without an Oprah interview) that's why Mike Tyson bit Holyfield. He saw what he and Giachetti prepared for wasn't working early and couldn't envision losing AGAIN.. Thus he didn't remain composed and we know what happened next..
streetlion1
QUOTE (MarzB @ Nov 20 2009, 10:08 AM) *
.paralysis by analysis....when you go out trying to be too perfect....its always best to be relaxed in the ring.

This is a great statement and why I love boxing because there are so many parallels with life also. I was talking to a friend recently about a job interview and how they prepared for it. They told me, they did. "I was expecting those 'in 5 years questions' and they didn't come about",lol. They asked her more scenario based questions and because she was NERVOUS, she couldn't think of any.

Anyways, I see that happening in the ring a lot. I'm absolutely convinced (even without an Oprah interview) that's why Mike Tyson bit Holyfield. He saw what he and Giachetti prepared for wasn't working early and couldn't envision losing AGAIN.. Thus he didn't remain composed and we know what happened next..

Yeah as I've found plenty of times in boxing and other things is my first thought or reaction is usually the correct one.


I agree I think Tyson might have panicked....Holyfield was butting the hell outta him though...he probably just lost it.
Method
I think, in a way, they are part and parcel of each other.
dominicbuilder9k1
QUOTE (du365 @ Nov 19 2009, 06:00 PM) *
Just wondering, I was talking to a buddy of mine and the topic of game plans vs adjustments came about ... I wanted to get an outside opinion on what you guys thought was most effective and if there a chance that a fighter/team can do both?

You see many fighters who don't watch film, who don't study their opponent, and who just let the fight come to them. Then you see fighters who study, break down their opponents, look for weaknesses, and try to exploit their opponent using a gameplan.

Thoughts???

Game Plan is the best if incorporated with ADJUSTMENTS,,,Pacquiao made adjustments that made Roach question him... and it made the gameplan work well for them...the quetion however if the fighter knows how to adjust... I've watched Andersen Silva of the UFC and I think together with FEDOR, they are the best because of their ability to adjust in their game plan... the answer: Gameplan with Adjustments (just incase) is more effective...
JonnyBlaze
Adjustments are definitely way more important..You could have a bad first few rounds but if you make and adjustment,it could get you a KO or win..Most great fighters have the ability to make adjustments..If you can't make an adjustment to some things,it shows you're not very versatile..
dominicbuilder9k1
QUOTE (gbh32001 @ Nov 19 2009, 05:11 PM) *
Game plan is the first step towards winning and adjustments should be included in the game plan.

Yeah...I think you've given the most brief and direct answer,,,
King Eugene
Come in with a game plan and make adjustments accordingly.
du365
That exactly why Kessler lost last night because he couldn't make adjustment to what Ward was doing (Ward switch-hitting, jab, left hand, head-butting, holding, speed,etc.)
Snoop
QUOTE (King Eugene @ Nov 21 2009, 11:52 AM) *
Come in with a game plan and make adjustments accordingly.

Short, sweet and to the point. You need both to succeed. I mean can you have adjustments without a gameplan? What would you be adjusting if you had no gameplan?

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