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Box in Hand
Hopkins seems to think May and Pac won't happen. Is he on point?

By Mark Vester

Bernard Hopkins tells BoxingScene.com that he doesn't think a Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Manny Pacquiao mega-fight will come off. He is convinced that Bob Arum of Top Rank, and Richard Schaefer of Golden Boy Promotions will not reach a deal for the fight. He appears very sure that Mayweather will face Shane Mosley [should he beat Andre Berto on January 30] and Pacquiao will move up to 154 to chase an eight divisional title by taking on WBA champion Yuri Foreman.

"[Mayweather] will fight Shane Mosley before he fights Pacquiao. Pacquiao is probably going to fight the Jewish kid at 154, and Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather are going to fight. And then the winner will fight Pacquiao for all the marbles - by late next year. All of that is going to happen. I think so. That's my prediction," Hopkins told BoxingScene's Bill Emes.

Hopkins is partner in Golden Boy. He is very close to Schaefer. Hopkins tells BoxingScene that Arum doesn't want to make the fight. Does Hopkins know something that we don't? At a recent press conference, Foreman, also promoted by Top Rank, said he would fight Pacquiao.

"They all gonna talk but they ain't going to get no deal done, I don't think. Arum doesn't want to do a deal. We want to do a deal with Pacquiao or anybody. Schaefer has got good intent. At the end of the day, I think it's going to be Sugar Shane and Mayweather and the winner will fight Pacquiao. And Pacquiao will fight at 154. They are not going to get a deal. Pacquiao has nobody else to fight to make that money. He's going to fight Arum's fighter, that Jewish kid who won the title and Pacquiao is going to win a title at 154," Hopkins said.

Lil-lightsout
His name is Yuri Foreman...Bernard.
D-MARV
I think he's off... May-PAc will happen in 2010.
Jack 1000
Well,

As much as it's cool to see Hopkins on standard cable TV, given what we saw last night on HBO's undercard and the fact that the fight is in Philly, his opponent is just there to make Hopkins look good. HBO's horrible decision on the undercard last night is convincing me more and more of how big the hometown advantage can be. I head Bernard is doing this for charity, so most likely this opponent could beat Hopkins from pillar to post and Bernard will not walk away a loser in this fight.

Sadly, this fight's just a time killer for Hopkins to get another payday. I always liked how Hopkins used to speak out against the bullshit in boxing, even though to this day I remain suspicious of Oscar and he going into business together after their fight. That's just not kosher.

THE fight of interest is the tape delayed coverage of Jones-Green from Australia, which is also supposed to be shown.

Jack
WindyCityP
Good ole snaggs LOL
leonthegee
manny going after another fake title. typical top rank bullshit.
xxxxxx
QUOTE (Box in Hand @ Nov 29 2009, 12:47 PM) *
Hopkins seems to think May and Pac won't happen. Is he on point?

By Mark Vester

Bernard Hopkins tells BoxingScene.com that he doesn't think a Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Manny Pacquiao mega-fight will come off. He is convinced that Bob Arum of Top Rank, and Richard Schaefer of Golden Boy Promotions will not reach a deal for the fight. He appears very sure that Mayweather will face Shane Mosley [should he beat Andre Berto on January 30] and Pacquiao will move up to 154 to chase an eight divisional title by taking on WBA champion Yuri Foreman.

"[Mayweather] will fight Shane Mosley before he fights Pacquiao. Pacquiao is probably going to fight the Jewish kid at 154, and Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather are going to fight. And then the winner will fight Pacquiao for all the marbles - by late next year. All of that is going to happen. I think so. That's my prediction," Hopkins told BoxingScene's Bill Emes.

Hopkins is partner in Golden Boy. He is very close to Schaefer. Hopkins tells BoxingScene that Arum doesn't want to make the fight. Does Hopkins know something that we don't? At a recent press conference, Foreman, also promoted by Top Rank, said he would fight Pacquiao.

"They all gonna talk but they ain't going to get no deal done, I don't think. Arum doesn't want to do a deal. We want to do a deal with Pacquiao or anybody. Schaefer has got good intent. At the end of the day, I think it's going to be Sugar Shane and Mayweather and the winner will fight Pacquiao. And Pacquiao will fight at 154. They are not going to get a deal. Pacquiao has nobody else to fight to make that money. He's going to fight Arum's fighter, that Jewish kid who won the title and Pacquiao is going to win a title at 154," Hopkins said.


I would be satisfied with the Mayweather-Mosley match. Either fight for Floyd would be huge, especially if Mosley beats Berto easily. This might be just a publicity stunt also, but I have been wondering why they havnt announced anything on the Pacman-Mayweather fight though. You would think they would want at least 6 months to promote this fight if they plan on having it May 1.
JLUVBABY
mosely wouldnt be no wheres as big a fight for lil floyd as pac.. thats the fight that needs to be made... its the best fight for the sport to be made.. regardless what mosely thinks his status is he is not packing arenas... good fighter but not a ticket seller.. in pac may we have the two biggest ticket sellers in the game facing each other..
darroy
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Nov 29 2009, 01:57 PM) *
Well,

As much as it's cool to see Hopkins on standard cable TV, given what we saw last night on HBO's undercard and the fact that the fight is in Philly, his opponent is just there to make Hopkins look good. HBO's horrible decision on the undercard last night is convincing me more and more of how big the hometown advantage can be. I head Bernard is doing this for charity, so most likely this opponent could beat Hopkins from pillar to post and Bernard will not walk away a loser in this fight.

Sadly, this fight's just a time killer for Hopkins to get another payday. I always liked how Hopkins used to speak out against the bullshit in boxing, even though to this day I remain suspicious of Oscar and he going into business together after their fight. That's just not kosher.

THE fight of interest is the tape delayed coverage of Jones-Green from Australia, which is also supposed to be shown.

Jack

i've also always been suspicious of the way oscar and bernard went into business together a month or two after the love tap bernard placed on oscar's ribs. something don't seem right to me but oh well, what can ya do?
darroy
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 29 2009, 03:37 PM) *
mosely wouldnt be no wheres as big a fight for lil floyd as pac.. thats the fight that needs to be made... its the best fight for the sport to be made.. regardless what mosely thinks his status is he is not packing arenas... good fighter but not a ticket seller.. in pac may we have the two biggest ticket sellers in the game facing each other..

i agree pac is the bigger money fight, but who do you give a better chance of beating floyd? pac has a shot but shane to me is the tougher fight which is what i'd rather see. outside of baldomir who isn't great we've seen floyd fight everything but a great full fledged welter. how will floyd handle the pressure and strength of a strong welter like shane? those are questions i'd like answered. besides you already know if floyd beats pac everyone will say well pac's a samller guy anyway.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 29 2009, 03:37 PM) *
mosely wouldnt be no wheres as big a fight for lil floyd as pac.. thats the fight that needs to be made... its the best fight for the sport to be made.. regardless what mosely thinks his status is he is not packing arenas... good fighter but not a ticket seller.. in pac may we have the two biggest ticket sellers in the game facing each other..


Thats funny cause both times I seen Mosley live the place was packed at MSG. And did you not see Margarito-Mosley last years attendance??? After Mayweather stunk out his fight with JMM, I am sure many people will think twice before seeing him again, unless Pac is in the opposite corner.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 29 2009, 05:10 PM) *
Thats funny cause both times I seen Mosley live the place was packed at MSG. And did you not see Margarito-Mosley last years attendance??? After Mayweather stunk out his fight with JMM, I am sure many people will think twice before seeing him again, unless Pac is in the opposite corner.

I know man. The Mexicans came to see Margarito, the Puerto Ricans came to see Cotto, the ladies paid to watch Oscar, the beer drinking gang bangers paid to watch Vargas, blah blah blah. There are always excuses about Shane Mosley's lack of marketability, but the fact is the man has been in several high profile, major star-studded events. People soon are probably going to start saying Yuri Foreman is a bigger fight cause he brings in the Hebrew School kids. LMAO.

Mosley's a big name, big ticket fighter. Not as big as Manny Pac obviously but for sure one of the biggest names in the sport. Casual fans and hardcore alike all know his name. This attitude that he can't fill a phone booth is nothing but PBF propaganda to try and downplay the significance of their fight.
provo
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Nov 29 2009, 11:35 AM) *
manny going after another fake title. typical top rank bullshit.


Yup! That's manny for you ,let me guess the 154 title and he's going to weigh in at 148 and make yuri weigh in at 150 for his 154 title ,sounds about right ! LOL
darroy
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 29 2009, 04:10 PM) *
Thats funny cause both times I seen Mosley live the place was packed at MSG. And did you not see Margarito-Mosley last years attendance??? After Mayweather stunk out his fight with JMM, I am sure many people will think twice before seeing him again, unless Pac is in the opposite corner.

you're right because mayweather isn't filling these arenas by himself. majority of the crowd at the marquez fight looked to be latino or supporting marquez and oscar and hatton were the draws in those fights as well. that's why when floyd chooses opponents he focuses on his foes fanbase and drawing power so much. if he's the star he says he is fight mosley and the world will watch and stop saying he doesn't draw, he's this, he's that, etc. excuses my man excuses!
D-MARV
I love how people seem to believe that thos 1 million buys were for Marquez. LMAO! You guys are clueless.
Keith
QUOTE (Sweetness @ Nov 29 2009, 04:21 PM) *
I know man. The Mexicans came to see Margarito, the Puerto Ricans came to see Cotto, the ladies paid to watch Oscar, the beer drinking gang bangers paid to watch Vargas, blah blah blah. There are always excuses about Shane Mosley's lack of marketability, but the fact is the man has been in several high profile, major star-studded events. People soon are probably going to start saying Yuri Foreman is a bigger fight cause he brings in the Hebrew School kids. LMAO.

Mosley's a big name, big ticket fighter. Not as big as Manny Pac obviously but for sure one of the biggest names in the sport. Casual fans and hardcore alike all know his name. This attitude that he can't fill a phone booth is nothing but PBF propaganda to try and downplay the significance of their fight.


I can see Floyd fighting Shane before Pac. I think the goal for Arum and Pac would be to meet Floyd (or Shane) for all the marbles. That could be their end game. So Arum could play hardball until either Floyd or Shane have 2 belts. It makes sense. If Pac faces Floyd first then he will still have to in theory face Shane for 147 supremacy. This way he gets a 2 for 1 by making them fight each other first.

Pac vs Floyd is the bigggest money fight out there. The biggest in history....... How much bigger would it be if 3 belts were in play instead of just 1? I think thats the goal Arum has in mind.

If Shane beats Berto, then faces and beats Floyd.... he's just as big a draw going into a Pac showdown as Floyd is currently. Believe it.
thehype
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 30 2009, 12:43 AM) *


Sign me up hype, Floyd Mayweather is a cunt , full stop
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (darroy @ Nov 29 2009, 02:51 PM) *
i agree pac is the bigger money fight, but who do you give a better chance of beating floyd? pac has a shot but shane to me is the tougher fight which is what i'd rather see. outside of baldomir who isn't great we've seen floyd fight everything but a great full fledged welter. how will floyd handle the pressure and strength of a strong welter like shane? those are questions i'd like answered. besides you already know if floyd beats pac everyone will say well pac's a samller guy anyway.


to answer you... pac... i think pac is the harder fight.. i wouldnt have thought so before cotto, but pac has become one in a league right under lil floyd... in my opinion pac would shred shane mosely up...
leonthegee
QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Nov 29 2009, 06:09 PM) *
Sign me up hype, Floyd Mayweather is a cunt , full stop


lloyd u just topped stevenski as the bigest fag on this website. that is the gayest picture as a signiture. i bet u jerkoff to mannys picture at night. no wonder the guys in ur country were skirts. u probably bought manny pacquiaos cd and have it in ur ipod. lololololololololololololol. loser.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 29 2009, 03:10 PM) *
Thats funny cause both times I seen Mosley live the place was packed at MSG. And did you not see Margarito-Mosley last years attendance??? After Mayweather stunk out his fight with JMM, I am sure many people will think twice before seeing him again, unless Pac is in the opposite corner.


thats not the reason i said what i said in my last post but regardless ill use this as an example.. you said a mouthfull here... floyds not making the kinda money he wants to unless pac is involved... thats what i was saying... that is the superfight... i dont care what the numbers where at msg.... new york is full of fight fans so they are gonna pack that place, mosely could fight pee wee herman there and get 10,000 interested spectators... pac could fill the ford arena here in my hometown... mosely couldnt... mayweather for sure would... in my breakroom at the plant i work at the question wasnt was pac gonna fight mosely after the cotto beat down it was WHATS up with pac fighting mayweather... im not trying to take away from mosely i think is is a good fighter at his advanced age but pac eats him up right now and mayweather beats him... not like pac would but then again styles make fights.. with pacs style I think he beats everyone but mayweather at this point... at 147...
SmartyBeardo
What if Berto cottos Mosley?
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Keith @ Nov 29 2009, 08:09 PM) *
I can see Floyd fighting Shane before Pac. I think the goal for Arum and Pac would be to meet Floyd (or Shane) for all the marbles. That could be their end game. So Arum could play hardball until either Floyd or Shane have 2 belts. It makes sense. If Pac faces Floyd first then he will still have to in theory face Shane for 147 supremacy. This way he gets a 2 for 1 by making them fight each other first.

Pac vs Floyd is the bigggest money fight out there. The biggest in history....... How much bigger would it be if 3 belts were in play instead of just 1? I think thats the goal Arum has in mind.

If Shane beats Berto, then faces and beats Floyd.... he's just as big a draw going into a Pac showdown as Floyd is currently. Believe it.

I can see Arum wanting that too. He can get Pac an easier fight in the interim against Yuri Boy or someone like that. I just think there's too much money in the end NOT to make Mayweather-Pacquiao the next big fight at welterweight. Even if they end up not making the fight until next September 2010, PBF will never fight Shane before that. Never.
E.C.LEGEND
bhop is going crazy I'm not believing anything he says. atleast not after he told espn if he beat roy he might want to go and get killed by david haye. thumbsdown_anim.gif
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
I like Hard Nard but my God he does spout some nonsense at times. I'm surprised he didn't announce that HE was fighting PBF next!
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Nov 30 2009, 02:35 AM) *
lloyd u just topped stevenski as the bigest fag on this website. that is the gayest picture as a signiture. i bet u jerkoff to mannys picture at night. no wonder the guys in ur country were skirts. u probably bought manny pacquiaos cd and have it in ur ipod. lololololololololololololol. loser.


Firstly, the sig is a result of a lost bet with Torvix, and im not actually going to rise to the skirts comment because it only really goes to show that your ignorance knows no bounds. You really are a first class assclown. I have to assume the the gee in your name is short for gimp, cos you are a gimp.
KookedKrack
QUOTE (E.C.LEGEND @ Nov 30 2009, 03:06 AM) *
bhop is going crazy I'm not believing anything he says. atleast not after he told espn if he beat roy he might want to go and get killed by david haye. thumbsdown_anim.gif


Hopkins barely gets hit flush and when he has been hit he has shown is chin is top notch..........so how exactly would Haye kill Hopkins?
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 29 2009, 09:44 PM) *
thats not the reason i said what i said in my last post but regardless ill use this as an example.. you said a mouthfull here... floyds not making the kinda money he wants to unless pac is involved... thats what i was saying... that is the superfight... i dont care what the numbers where at msg.... new york is full of fight fans so they are gonna pack that place, mosely could fight pee wee herman there and get 10,000 interested spectators... pac could fill the ford arena here in my hometown... mosely couldnt... mayweather for sure would... in my breakroom at the plant i work at the question wasnt was pac gonna fight mosely after the cotto beat down it was WHATS up with pac fighting mayweather... im not trying to take away from mosely i think is is a good fighter at his advanced age but pac eats him up right now and mayweather beats him... not like pac would but then again styles make fights.. with pacs style I think he beats everyone but mayweather at this point... at 147...


Just your opinion. I think you severely underrate Mosley's draw power. So what's your take/excuse for Shane and Tony doing crazy numbers? You give no proof to saying Mosley is no draw. Sure Mayweather got ALOT of attention last time out cause he was out for almost two years. For you to suggest Pac eats Mosley up right now is also pretty funny to me. I can suggest that Mosley will in fact KO Pac if they fight. Just my opinion. I also think Mayweather beats Pac by decision. I do agree Pac vs. Mayweather IS the biggest fight to be made right now, no doubt about it. The undefeated record, his loud bragging mouth, and his skills definately have fans interested in seeing him and Pac fight.


I would much rather watch Mosley fight, than watch Mayweather fight.
E.C.LEGEND
QUOTE (KookedKrack @ Nov 30 2009, 10:35 AM) *
Hopkins barely gets hit flush and when he has been hit he has shown is chin is top notch..........so how exactly would Haye kill Hopkins?

hopkins doesn't know how his body would handle all of that weight at his age. he's not picking a slow champ either besides chambers haye is the fastest heavy out there. yeah his chin is good against smaller opponents, even if he blocks hayes punches he's still going to feel them. if this fight was to happen it would send him into retirement. he better hope ruiz beats haye so he can try to pull a roy jones. ok.gif
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 30 2009, 10:06 AM) *
Just your opinion. I think you severely underrate Mosley's draw power. So what's your take/excuse for Shane and Tony doing crazy numbers? You give no proof to saying Mosley is no draw. Sure Mayweather got ALOT of attention last time out cause he was out for almost two years. For you to suggest Pac eats Mosley up right now is also pretty funny to me. I can suggest that Mosley will in fact KO Pac if they fight. Just my opinion. I also think Mayweather beats Pac by decision. I do agree Pac vs. Mayweather IS the biggest fight to be made right now, no doubt about it. The undefeated record, his loud bragging mouth, and his skills definately have fans interested in seeing him and Pac fight.


I would much rather watch Mosley fight, than watch Mayweather fight.


well we obviously differ in opinion on shane which is cool we've discussed him before in the past as i recall... i dont think mosely has the draw power of a pac or a mayweather (ill be the first to say he SHOULD be just as well known and popular but he just isnt)... i havent looked up numbers for his fights attendance wise or ppv but im sure they pale in comparison to both may an pac... i could be wrong there but if i had to guess i would think so... as far as mosely beating pac i have to totally disagree... regardless of rather or not cotto was ready for that figt with pac as some has suggested he didnt lose his punch and it seemed to me minus the knockdowns he did fairly well early on, and he did land some clean shots on pac that maybe got his attention but pac regrouped and went about his buisness and finished his job.... styles make fights and as good a boxer as shane CAN be he likes to slug and or can be drawn into a sluggers match a little to much for me to pick him in a fight with pac... on top of that i know you dont agree with me when i say this but im not sure how much of that margarito fight was shane mosely as much as margarito being busted for hand wraps like i said and not knowing his fate after the fight (not to many people can operate 100% to capacity under that type of situation regardless of its boxing or what ever kiinda job they might be on, their mind is on the problems at hand rather than being focused on what they have to do... tyson is one of only a few fighters i can think of that had the ability to block crazy problems worse than that out and still be ready for a fight)... just my opinion on shane right now... rather he is still the goods or not one good fight under those types of circumstances to me dont make him the man again all of a sudden... before the marg. fight most figured him a shot fighter.... some called for him not to even take that fight... say what you want about berto but if shane is indeed still the goods then you will figure he should have his way with berto, i dont think he is thats why i give berto a VERY good shot in this fight... shane himself has called berto "too green"... if shane is not 100% or at least damn near berto gets with him, maybe beats him... just my opinion... berto is not a push over.
Keith
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 30 2009, 06:51 PM) *
as far as mosely beating pac i have to totally disagree... regardless of rather or not cotto was ready for that figt with pac as some has suggested he didnt lose his punch and it seemed to me minus the knockdowns he did fairly well early on, and he did land some clean shots on pac that maybe got his attention but pac regrouped and went about his buisness and finished his job.... styles make fights and as good a boxer as shane CAN be he likes to slug and or can be drawn into a sluggers match a little to much for me to pick him in a fight with pac


Respect your opinion... curious about your thoughts on what I'm about to say....

If Shane can hit Pac as easily as Cotto, do you think Pac just keeps coming? Pacs face and busted eardrum tell a huge story imo... he took a lot of punches. Shane is a slugger because when he lands he hurts people. I'm not questioning Pacs chin as much as claiming that there is a clear difference between Shane hitting you and Cotto hitting you. As much as you can claim Margs was distracted and all, I dont think you can say that somehow would affect his chin. Margarito ate Cottos punches like M&Ms and Shane got his attention from the 1st round on. I also think Shane has a thicker coat and could take more punishment from Pac then Cotto did. The combination of more punching power and a thicker coat could prove to be Pacs kryptonite because Pac will not win a fight moving backwards.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (Keith @ Nov 30 2009, 07:57 PM) *
Respect your opinion... curious about your thoughts on what I'm about to say....

If Shane can hit Pac as easily as Cotto, do you think Pac just keeps coming? Pacs face and busted eardrum tell a huge story imo... he took a lot of punches. Shane is a slugger because when he lands he hurts people. I'm not questioning Pacs chin as much as claiming that there is a clear difference between Shane hitting you and Cotto hitting you. As much as you can claim Margs was distracted and all, I dont think you can say that somehow would affect his chin. Margarito ate Cottos punches like M&Ms and Shane got his attention from the 1st round on. I also think Shane has a thicker coat and could take more punishment from Pac then Cotto did. The combination of more punching power and a thicker coat could prove to be Pacs kryptonite because Pac will not win a fight moving backwards.


Pretty much how I feel. Plus another key point you did not mention is Cotto faded after about 4 rounds and had next to no snap on his punches after the fourth round. So Pac basically had a dead man walking at that point, not Pac's fault, Cotto's poor conditioning or call it what you want. An elite fighter should not be gassed after 4 rounds. Shane is dangerous with his punches the whole time. Look at how he got stronger with Margarito and his punching power was still there. Look at the punches and KO punch in the last round against Mayorga who is naturally a big dude. My whole point is Pac is not gonna be able to employ the same crazy punches in bunches all the time with Mosley because there is a danger factor with the return power Mosley will have in return. Which Cotto, Oscar, Hatton, and Diaz did not possess.
Keith
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Nov 30 2009, 08:35 PM) *
Pretty much how I feel. Plus another key point you did not mention is Cotto faded after about 4 rounds and had next to no snap on his punches after the fourth round. So Pac basically had a dead man walking at that point, not Pac's fault, Cotto's poor conditioning or call it what you want. An elite fighter should not be gassed after 4 rounds. Shane is dangerous with his punches the whole time. Look at how he got stronger with Margarito and his punching power was still there. Look at the punches and KO punch in the last round against Mayorga who is naturally a big dude. My whole point is Pac is not gonna be able to employ the same crazy punches in bunches all the time with Mosley because there is a danger factor with the return power Mosley will have in return. Which Cotto, Oscar, Hatton, and Diaz did not possess.


Styles make fights and I think Shane is all wrong for Pac. Shane has trouble with guys who are either bigger then him, or with fighters who keep him out of sync with a jab. Pac really doesnt present either. Pac is one dimensional in a similar way as Margarito was. Pac will need to attack to win and Shane's right hand will be on the ready.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Keith @ Nov 30 2009, 06:57 PM) *
Respect your opinion... curious about your thoughts on what I'm about to say....

If Shane can hit Pac as easily as Cotto, do you think Pac just keeps coming? Pacs face and busted eardrum tell a huge story imo... he took a lot of punches. Shane is a slugger because when he lands he hurts people. I'm not questioning Pacs chin as much as claiming that there is a clear difference between Shane hitting you and Cotto hitting you. As much as you can claim Margs was distracted and all, I dont think you can say that somehow would affect his chin. Margarito ate Cottos punches like M&Ms and Shane got his attention from the 1st round on. I also think Shane has a thicker coat and could take more punishment from Pac then Cotto did. The combination of more punching power and a thicker coat could prove to be Pacs kryptonite because Pac will not win a fight moving backwards.


my thoughts on what you just said is that you wouldnt have know pac had a busted ear drum in the fight... and lil lightsout is right styles do make fights that why i see pac busting up mosely in a fight... mosely will want to slug and that will be his downfall.. this is 2 fighters we are talking about on the elite stage so you ask me does pac keep coming when moselys hitting him?... does mosely hit as hard as cotto?... im not sure... what does mosely do when he's hit over and over by the kitchen sink of pac?.... mosely can be hurt.... as viewed in the forrest fight especially the first one... moselys downfall would be that he can be taken off his gameplan... his gameplan may be to box but he wont end the fight boxing...
Keith
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 30 2009, 09:42 PM) *
my thoughts on what you just said is that you wouldnt have know pac had a busted ear drum in the fight... and lil lightsout is right styles do make fights that why i see pac busting up mosely in a fight... mosely will want to slug and that will be his downfall.. this is 2 fighters we are talking about on the elite stage so you ask me does pac keep coming when moselys hitting him?... does mosely hit as hard as cotto?... im not sure... what does mosely do when he's hit over and over by the kitchen sink of pac?.... mosely can be hurt.... as viewed in the forrest fight especially the first one... moselys downfall would be that he can be taken off his gameplan... his gameplan may be to box but he wont end the fight boxing...


So your saying Mosley doesnt bang harder then Cotto? And that he doesnt have a thicker coat?

I'm not saying Shane cant be hurt. I'm not saying he has power that Pac cant handle. What I am saying is that he clearly hits harder then Cotto and I think any argument to the contrary is insane based on how their punches affected Margs. I've seen cotto hurt real bad by multiple fighters over the last 5 years while I've only seen Shane hurt once some 8 years ago. Agree?
Keith
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 30 2009, 10:35 PM) *
I'm not sure. I think it could be debatable on who hits harder when they punch, and I also don't think Margarito is a good measuring stick because they both punched under very different circumstances.
Cotto was punching on the back foot while retreating and was never loading up. Mosley was punching while moving forward and loading up. I think Mosley punching while moving forward and Cotto punching while moving back is a huge advantage for Mosley if you are trying to compare their punching power on that fight.
I think they are both pretty close in punching power, and I woulnd't favour anybody out right, I don't think it's a certainty and I don't think it's fair for Cotto to use as a measuring stick on why he hits harder than Cotto.


Agree in some respects. The better question may be why was Cotto punching off his back foot and why was Mosley punching moving foward. I suspect that Cotto had to punch that way because he is a short welter especially against Margs. Even Mosley at 5"9" was reasonable close to Margs and could bring his power to bear. So is it fair to say that Shane is just a more physical fighter then Cotto?
Keith
QUOTE (Fitz @ Nov 30 2009, 10:47 PM) *
I think Cotto was moving back because Cotto can punch hard, but he actually isn't physically strong compared to some of the other welters, he also isn't as resilient. Mosley on the other hand is one of the strongest guys, he is just damn strong and is a lot more resilient which is why he was able to keep moving forward.
I think they may be close in raw punching power, but Mosley has him beat easily in physical strength.


I'll accept that... and that physical strength and resiliency would allow him to fight Pac much harder and longer then Cotto.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Keith @ Nov 30 2009, 09:29 PM) *
So your saying Mosley doesnt bang harder then Cotto? And that he doesnt have a thicker coat?

I'm not saying Shane cant be hurt. I'm not saying he has power that Pac cant handle. What I am saying is that he clearly hits harder then Cotto and I think any argument to the contrary is insane based on how their punches affected Margs. I've seen cotto hurt real bad by multiple fighters over the last 5 years while I've only seen Shane hurt once some 8 years ago. Agree?


im saying styles make fights and as good as you want mosely to be he is not the most disciplined fighter in the game and while he may have the best game plan going in once he gets blasted a few good times hes gonna get mad and his game plan is gonna go out the window... pacs game plan is to get these guys into a slugfest, he wants to bang... shanes gonna fall for it at some point if they where to fight cuzz like i said he doesnt have the discipline to stick to a game plan of boxing the whole 12 rounds and that will be his downfall... its just not in his blood to be a boxer tho he has very good boxing ability... true mosely hasnt been hurt much in his fights but i guarentee youll see him buzzed if not on his back if he fights pac... im not even getting into the other intangibles pac has over mosely like being able to punch hard for all 3 minutes for the full 12 rounds... mosley not surviving that...
King Eugene
Two Things...

One reason why Mosley could be considered a pretty good draw is cause a lot of the guys he's fought he wasn't necessarily picked to win for the most part like Vargas and Margarito. He beat those guys, made a name for himself and had smaller fights on regular HBO. Of course you'd likely get more people to tune in when its on regular HBO than PPV and I'm pretty sure the ticket cost aren't as expensive as a PPV fights tickets. Therefor its easier to draw more people at a cheaper price.

Initially I was on the "Shane would beat Manny from Pilar to Post" boat but after seeing the Cotto fight my feelings have changed. People forget Cotto is a pretty precise puncher so of course he was going to land some pretty good shots on Pac. Shane on the other hand likes to load up on his shots and so I think Pac could get in and get out before Shane got anything big off. Don't get me wrong I think it would be one hell of a fight but I think Pac would frustrate the hell out of Shane by darting in, getting off, and darting back out. They say Pac like to sit and trade...Shitting me! He didnt' trade with DLH til he wore that sucka down and slowed him up. So IMO Pac will get the nod on this one. Shane will have early success with that flickering jab, get comfortable, get caught a few times, get a little upset and start to want to brawl. Pac then puts a pretty good whippin on him and gets the UD.

Manny likes to brawl yes but he knows when to get the hell up out of there. Shane will have some success with the straight right hand but not as much as some are assuming. Hell wasn't Cotto suppose to have success with the straight right too. Everybody has a plan til they get hit!
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Keith @ Nov 30 2009, 08:44 PM) *
Styles make fights and I think Shane is all wrong for Pac. Shane has trouble with guys who are either bigger then him, or with fighters who keep him out of sync with a jab. Pac really doesnt present either. Pac is one dimensional in a similar way as Margarito was. Pac will need to attack to win and Shane's right hand will be on the ready.


Keith I'd argue that the days of Pac being one dimensional are over. Dude has really improved. For one he owns a right hand now. I don't think he's prone to lunging in quite as much any more (still got over excited a couple of times in the Cotto fight) and seems to fight in and out a helluva lot better than before.

Circles the ring much better and even counter punches at times!

Floyd may be the better fighter but Manny would definately win my most improved award. No way did I ever think I'd se the one dimensional slugger who scrapped it out with Morales develop into the fighter he is today.
Keith
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Dec 1 2009, 03:41 AM) *
Keith I'd argue that the days of Pac being one dimensional are over. Dude has really improved. For one he owns a right hand now. I don't think he's prone to lunging in quite as much any more (still got over excited a couple of times in the Cotto fight) and seems to fight in and out a helluva lot better than before.

Circles the ring much better and even counter punches at times!

Floyd may be the better fighter but Manny would definately win my most improved award. No way did I ever think I'd se the one dimensional slugger who scrapped it out with Morales develop into the fighter he is today.


So your saying you have seen Pac win a fight moving backward? You've seen Pac in a fight with a guy he couldnt physically impose his will on?

I'm not suggesting that Pac doesnt have a tremendous offensive skill set. Only that he probably cant win a fight moving backward and his defensive prowess leaves a lot to be desired. He gets hit rather easily and eventually he will run into a fighter that can hurt him bad. When that happens he probably wont know what to do. It happens to great fighters who are accustomed to being the aggressor/puncher. Pac wont all of the sudden turn into a guy who can dominate a round with his jab and counter punching. He needs to attack, thats who he is. Damn good at it but one-dimensional none the less.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (Keith @ Dec 1 2009, 03:11 PM) *
So your saying you have seen Pac win a fight moving backward? You've seen Pac in a fight with a guy he couldnt physically impose his will on?

I'm not suggesting that Pac doesnt have a tremendous offensive skill set. Only that he probably cant win a fight moving backward and his defensive prowess leaves a lot to be desired. He gets hit rather easily and eventually he will run into a fighter that can hurt him bad. When that happens he probably wont know what to do. It happens to great fighters who are accustomed to being the aggressor/puncher. Pac wont all of the sudden turn into a guy who can dominate a round with his jab and counter punching. He needs to attack, thats who he is. Damn good at it but one-dimensional none the less.


who says pac is gonna be the fighter going backwards in a mosely fight?...
Keith
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Dec 1 2009, 07:57 PM) *
who says pac is gonna be the fighter going backwards in a mosely fight?...


I am. Just like your saying it will be the opposite. Unlike you, I am willing to acknowledge that it wont be easy. This fight would turn into a war and it could go either way because Pac is that good. I think Shane hits as hard and is just as armor coated as Pac. The deciding factor will be his height and reach advantage.

I'm not the one saying things such as....

QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Nov 29 2009, 09:33 PM) *
in my opinion pac would shred shane mosely up...


Thats sounds pretty one-sided. Given Mosley's track record of facing top guys at 147-154 for 10 years, and 51 pro fight overall, ... he isnt all that easy to "shred".
Lil-lightsout
The only place Pac goes in a Mosley fight is on his BACK! thumbsup_anim.gif
darroy
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Nov 29 2009, 06:31 PM) *
I love how people seem to believe that thos 1 million buys were for Marquez. LMAO! You guys are clueless.

so everyone who ordered the fight ordered it to see floyd? so who did the 2 plus million ppv customers for oscar and floyd tune in for floyd also? i guess the large population of latinos in this country had nothing to fo with a chunk of these ppv numbers? no one says marquez was the draw but let's use common sense here. latinos are some of the most passionate fights fans if not the most passionate fight fans around and to downplay their role in the success of the may/marquez ppv is ridiculous!
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (darroy @ Dec 1 2009, 09:43 PM) *
so everyone who ordered the fight ordered it to see floyd? so who did the 2 plus million ppv customers for oscar and floyd tune in for floyd also? i guess the large population of latinos in this country had nothing to fo with a chunk of these ppv numbers? no one says marquez was the draw but let's use common sense here. latinos are some of the most passionate fights fans if not the most passionate fight fans around and to downplay their role in the success of the may/marquez ppv is ridiculous!


Very good post.
streetlion1
QUOTE (King Eugene @ Nov 30 2009, 11:57 PM) *
Two Things...

One reason why Mosley could be considered a pretty good draw is cause a lot of the guys he's fought he wasn't necessarily picked to win for the most part like Vargas and Margarito. He beat those guys, made a name for himself and had smaller fights on regular HBO. Of course you'd likely get more people to tune in when its on regular HBO than PPV and I'm pretty sure the ticket cost aren't as expensive as a PPV fights tickets. Therefor its easier to draw more people at a cheaper price.

Initially I was on the "Shane would beat Manny from Pilar to Post" boat but after seeing the Cotto fight my feelings have changed. People forget Cotto is a pretty precise puncher so of course he was going to land some pretty good shots on Pac. Shane on the other hand likes to load up on his shots and so I think Pac could get in and get out before Shane got anything big off. Don't get me wrong I think it would be one hell of a fight but I think Pac would frustrate the hell out of Shane by darting in, getting off, and darting back out. They say Pac like to sit and trade...Shitting me! He didnt' trade with DLH til he wore that sucka down and slowed him up. So IMO Pac will get the nod on this one. Shane will have early success with that flickering jab, get comfortable, get caught a few times, get a little upset and start to want to brawl. Pac then puts a pretty good whippin on him and gets the UD.

Manny likes to brawl yes but he knows when to get the hell up out of there. Shane will have some success with the straight right hand but not as much as some are assuming. Hell wasn't Cotto suppose to have success with the straight right too. Everybody has a plan til they get hit!

Mosley is the last guy Pacman wants to fight. Mosley and Naaz would come up with the plan....Shane would use his jab and 7inch reach advantage to back Manny up...get close to him...smother his shots and hammer the Pacman with power shots.

MosleyW 6-7rd K.O.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Keith @ Dec 1 2009, 04:11 PM) *
So your saying you have seen Pac win a fight moving backward? You've seen Pac in a fight with a guy he couldnt physically impose his will on?

I'm not suggesting that Pac doesnt have a tremendous offensive skill set. Only that he probably cant win a fight moving backward and his defensive prowess leaves a lot to be desired. He gets hit rather easily and eventually he will run into a fighter that can hurt him bad. When that happens he probably wont know what to do. It happens to great fighters who are accustomed to being the aggressor/puncher. Pac wont all of the sudden turn into a guy who can dominate a round with his jab and counter punching. He needs to attack, thats who he is. Damn good at it but one-dimensional none the less.


I thought Pac fought the first half of the Cotto fight going backward and I'd argue that his 2 knockdowns happened while he was going backward and Cotto ran into big punches.
Keith
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Dec 2 2009, 04:35 PM) *
I thought Pac fought the first half of the Cotto fight going backward and I'd argue that his 2 knockdowns happened while he was going backward and Cotto ran into big punches.


You were watching a different fight then. I saw some give and take.... and when Manny was moving he was circling to engage again. When Cotto tried to bully Manny he stood his ground and fired back. Those 2 kds might of had Cotto moving foward but Manny wasnt moving backwards. I did not see Manny move backward much at all. Your imagining things.... watch the fight again.
King Eugene
QUOTE (streetlion1 @ Dec 2 2009, 12:31 PM) *
Mosley is the last guy Pacman wants to fight. Mosley and Naaz would come up with the plan....Shane would use his jab and 7inch reach advantage to back Manny up...get close to him...smother his shots and hammer the Pacman with power shots.

MosleyW 6-7rd K.O.

Thats been everybody's game plan as of late and we've all seen how that panned out.
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