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Jack 1000
Several sources are claiming that Antonio Margarito after the infamous Plaster of Paris Glove incident before the Shane Mosley fight is going to be applying for a license in Texas and early indications are that because of politics and money he may get a license to fight. However, most boxing networks around the world believe that Margarito should be banned from boxing for life, that he has the same accountability as his former trainer for attempting to fight with an unauthorized weapon.

This is a serious issue, and if anyone would like to protest the reinstatement of Antonio Margarito to be able to box again, you may file a grievance with the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation requesting that Margarito should not be reinstated. The address for letters is:

Texas Boxing Department of Licensing and Regulation
Atten: Dicky Cole
P.O. Box 12157
Austin, Texas 78711

You can e-mail him at the boxing commission as well:

Dick.cole@license.state.tx.us

Best advice is to be professional and to the point. A 1 page Max letter should be good. You can use your own boxing experience to illustrate the bad precedent that a relicensing of Antonio Margarito would set a bad precedent for the sport.

Don't forget to check your letters for grammar, punctuation, and spelling.

It may not do much good, but there is safety in numbers.

And while for the life of me, I cannot imagine anyone supporting Margarito's reinstatement, you can use the same address for both pro and against viewpoints.

I wanted to give you guys this as a tool so that maybe through safety in numbers, international boxing communities can work together to have a say in this matter.

Jack
D-MARV
Let the man fight, He'll get his ass kicked again.
Keith
If the punishment isnt severe enough to deter fighters from doing this...then more will try... and more fighters will end up like Cotto.
EpTXCHAMP
QUOTE (Keith @ Jan 21 2010, 08:46 PM) *
If the punishment isnt severe enough to deter fighters from doing this...then more will try... and more fighters will end up like Cotto.



Exactly!!!!!!!

this is horrible and I have this awful feeling if he gets back in the ring and wins on the undercard and no pac vs mayweather is made think we see Arum matching up pac with this cheat!!! giving margs an undeserving pay check!!
MarzB
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Jan 21 2010, 08:42 PM) *
Let the man fight, He'll get his ass kicked again.


First off thanks for this post Jack and the address. But then I gotta agree with Stylez here.

Forget Yuri Foreman, Miguel Cotto. If I'm you, I DEMAND Arum to make that match happen and perhaps this is already underway he just needs a tuneup. Here's my musings about this.

Seriously, this is a serious offense and he served the same time that Zab Judah served for his seconds entering the ring. Something is wrong with that picture

There is a real reason that I don't know why their seeking reinstatement in Texas first and not Nevada or California (that suspended him). Are there some under the table payoffs occurring?? Because this hearing seems to be more of a formality(where the result has already been determined) than an actual reinstatement hearing.

After being off for a year, can Margarito still SAFELY (not that I care about his health by any means and maybe I could have used better wording) still make welterweight?? Hopefully not and he tries and is bludgeoned in the ring.

My personal hope is that he struggles against ordinary opposition. Never gets another "million dollar" pay day and ends up fighting on BS "Latin Fury" type cards on the undercard.
JD
Zab Judah got railroaded...hell, Roger, was in the ring before Joel was and yet Zab took the fall.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (JD @ Jan 22 2010, 02:57 AM) *
Zab Judah got railroaded...hell, Roger, was in the ring before Joel was and yet Zab took the fall.


Stop picking on the Mayweathers Mmkay.
D-MARV
Roger was suspended for a year and he got fined 200K.

This latest shit he pulled is disgraceful though. He should be thrown UNDER the jail.
gustavo
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jan 21 2010, 09:37 PM) *
Several sources are claiming that Antonio Margarito after the infamous Plaster of Paris Glove incident before the Shane Mosley fight is going to be applying for a license in Texas and early indications are that because of politics and money he may get a license to fight. However, most boxing networks around the world believe that Margarito should be banned from boxing for life, that he has the same accountability as his former trainer for attempting to fight with an unauthorized weapon.

This is a serious issue, and if anyone would like to protest the reinstatement of Antonio Margarito to be able to box again, you may file a grievance with the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation requesting that Margarito should not be reinstated. The address for letters is:

Texas Boxing Department of Licensing and Regulation
Atten: Dicky Cole
P.O. Box 12157
Austin, Texas 78711

You can e-mail him at the boxing commission as well:

Dick.cole@license.state.tx.us

Best advice is to be professional and to the point. A 1 page Max letter should be good. You can use your own boxing experience to illustrate the bad precedent that a relicensing of Antonio Margarito would set a bad precedent for the sport.

Don't forget to check your letters for grammar, punctuation, and spelling.

It may not do much good, but there is safety in numbers.

And while for the life of me, I cannot imagine anyone supporting Margarito's reinstatement, you can use the same address for both pro and against viewpoints.

I wanted to give you guys this as a tool so that maybe through safety in numbers, international boxing communities can work together to have a say in this matter.

Jack


sorry man, but i support my idol Antonio Margarito. he did not cheat, and he is coming back hungrier than ever before!
mexi-cutioner
I too like Margarito, and although his tactics are dirty and shameful, the same can be said about several steroid users in boxing, and despite their detrimental actions, most are still held in high regard and their steroid use is often seen as nothing but a slight tarnish on their record (IE: Mosley, Jones, Toney, etc). Hopefully he can come back and fight his way to the top as a CLEAN SPORTSMAN and I look forward to seeing him on the undercard of Pac-Clottey


...that being said, let the man fight and if he hasn't learned his lesson and does it again, ban him for life and throw him in jail
MarzB
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Jan 21 2010, 10:25 PM) *
Roger was suspended for a year and he got fined 200K.

This latest shit he pulled is disgraceful though. He should be thrown UNDER the jail.


I believe there are two sides to every story but from what I hear, I TOTALLY agree with your points.
D-MARV
QUOTE (MarzB @ Jan 22 2010, 10:16 AM) *
I believe there are two sides to every story but from what I hear, I TOTALLY agree with your points.

you're right... I want to hear Roger explain himself but it's not looking good for him.
ROLL DEEP
For someone to go through that much trouble to cheat, shouldn't be allowed again.



Let him fight on if he wants, but he can do it for free.


He shouldn't take $$$ away from those that do not endanger people's lives illegally.


That should happen with all boxers who are caught cheating....they can box on but have to do it for free.
Romulus9
QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Jan 22 2010, 11:18 AM) *
For someone to go through that much trouble to cheat, shouldn't be allowed again.



Let him fight on if he wants, but he can do it for free.


He shouldn't take $$$ away from those that do not endanger people's lives illegally.


That should happen with all boxers who are caught cheating....they can box on but have to do it for free.



Make him wear 18 oz. gloves for every fight.
The Original MrFactor
The thing about it was that he was caught with the substance in his gloves on fight night AND still allowed to fight that night. From what we know, he didnt actually enter the ring with the stuff in his gloves. He took a beating like a man. He took his suspension like a man. Other folks have admitted that they entered the ring juiced or were found to have juiced after their fights. Some folks were NOT suspended and have never been dealt with from a Boxing commission standpoint and are still highly respected in the sport today. I think Margarito served his time and should be allowed to fight again. Simple as that.
Snoop
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 22 2010, 05:05 PM) *
Other folks have admitted that they entered the ring juiced or were found to have juiced after their fights. Some folks were NOT suspended and have never been dealt with from a Boxing commission standpoint and are still highly respected in the sport today.

Just because steroid usage was not punished does not mean they should be less strict on loading gloves. If they want to be uniform on ALL violations, it means they need to crack down harder on the steroids usage, not be more lax on other illegal activities that would make the sport more dangerous as a whole.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (Snoop @ Jan 22 2010, 12:58 PM) *
Just because steroid usage was not punished does not mean they should be less strict on loading gloves. If they want to be uniform on ALL violations, it means they need to crack down harder on the steroids usage, not be more lax on other illegal activities that would make the sport more dangerous as a whole.



I dont condone what Margarito did. I also dont think the punishment was lax. I think dude paid his debt to the boxing gods via a 1 year suspension I thought that was fair. Like I said he didnt get caught in the act. He got caught prior to and was allowed to fight that night. Other people got caught with PEDs after they fought and could have killed someone due to an unfair advantage. Mosley has admitted to using and has never been punished. It really has me scratching my head as to the very least they could do is change the Mosley/DLH II result to a NC, like they did with TONEY/Ruiz. Maybe Mosley should have to pay back some of his purse from that fight.
Snoop
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 22 2010, 06:17 PM) *
I dont condone what Margarito did. I also dont think the punishment was lax. I think dude paid his debt to the boxing gods via a 1 year suspension I thought that was fair. Like I said he didnt get caught in the act. He got caught prior to and was allowed to fight that night. Other people got caught with PEDs after they fought and could have killed someone due to an unfair advantage. Mosley has admitted to using and has never been punished. It really has me scratching my head as to the very least they could do is change the Mosley/DLH II result to a NC, like they did with TONEY/Ruiz. Maybe Mosley should have to pay back some of his purse from that fight.

Well, I guess it all depends on if you assume the Mosley fight was really the first time he tried to load his gloves. I suppose it's all speculative, but at the same time, people have come up with some damn good arguments that would suggest he did.

I think it boils down to which one you view as the more dangerous offense. For me it's loading gloves. Steroids are such a broad category. Sometimes they're used in painkillers. Sometimes fighters really don't question what their nutritionist gives them. Would a fighter not know about a trainer loading gloves? Possibly, but not likely.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (Snoop @ Jan 22 2010, 01:25 PM) *
Well, I guess it all depends on if you assume the Mosley fight was really the first time he tried to load his gloves. I suppose it's all speculative, but at the same time, people have come up with some damn good arguments that would suggest he did.

I think it boils down to which one you view as the more dangerous offense. For me it's loading gloves. Steroids are such a broad category. Sometimes they're used in painkillers. Sometimes fighters really don't question what their nutritionist gives them. Would a fighter not know about a trainer loading gloves? Possibly, but not likely.



I'm with you, if you think he probably has comitted the deed before. Especially concerning the Cotto fight. I just dont think its fair to level punishment on the guy for speculation. Cotto's team had the same opportunity to check Margarito's gloves as the Mosley team. In fact I'd say that if they didnt then they were negligent. They didnt protect their guy. That beating took some years off Cotto's life, I'd say.

I dont see either crime as worse than the other. Loaded gloves can certainly kill a guy with one deadly blow. From what I've read about EPO(which is one of the things Mosley was alledged to have taken), it increases stamina by greatly increasing your red blood cell count. So a guy who'd normally be tired from throwing 30 - 40 punches per round, can throw that extra 60 or so punches per round without the same fatigue factor as he would have if he didnt use EPO. That 100th punch has the same amount of steam on it as the 24th punch because the figher just doesnt get tired. That also can be a life threatening danger. Death by one blow or death by 1000 extra blows that you wouldnt normally see if the guy you're fighting wasnt using EPO.

The funny thing about all of this is, that the boxing commissions dont appear to have the oversight necessary to check these things. Or maybe they just dont really give a damn about fighters. Margarito would have gotten away with the loaded gloves had it not been for Mosley's trainer. The commision stood by and watched as they wrapped Tony's hands. The commission was also complicit in several of these fights where one guy was caught using PEDs because they caught many of these guys after they fought. No efficient drug testing methods prior to fights. It just makes me think about guys like Leavander Johnson, who could have been killed by someone who cheated(not saying this was the way things went down, but its a possibility), because the boxing commisions didnt protect the fighter.
Snoop
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 22 2010, 07:27 PM) *
I'm with you, if you think he probably has comitted the deed before. Especially concerning the Cotto fight. I just dont think its fair to level punishment on the guy for speculation. Cotto's team had the same opportunity to check Margarito's gloves as the Mosley team. In fact I'd say that if they didnt then they were negligent. They didnt protect their guy. That beating took some years off Cotto's life, I'd say.

I dont see either crime as worse than the other. Loaded gloves can certainly kill a guy with one deadly blow. From what I've read about EPO(which is one of the things Mosley was alledged to have taken), it increases stamina by greatly increasing your red blood cell count. So a guy who'd normally be tired from throwing 30 - 40 punches per round, can throw that extra 60 or so punches per round without the same fatigue factor as he would have if he didnt use EPO. That 100th punch has the same amount of steam on it as the 24th punch because the figher just doesnt get tired. That also can be a life threatening danger. Death by one blow or death by 1000 extra blows that you wouldnt normally see if the guy you're fighting wasnt using EPO.

The funny thing about all of this is, that the boxing commissions dont appear to have the oversight necessary to check these things. Or maybe they just dont really give a damn about fighters. Margarito would have gotten away with the loaded gloves had it not been for Mosley's trainer. The commision stood by and watched as they wrapped Tony's hands. The commission was also complicit in several of these fights where one guy was caught using PEDs because they caught many of these guys after they fought. No efficient drug testing methods prior to fights. It just makes me think about guys like Leavander Johnson, who could have been killed by someone who cheated(not saying this was the way things went down, but its a possibility), because the boxing commisions didnt protect the fighter.

While Cotto's corner should have been more diligent in their checks, I hope their negligence isn't lessening the severity of Margarito's loaded gloves. Overall I agree with you. The NSAC is being REALLY lazy when it comes to cheating in sports, especially in one where you could be killed.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
I have no problems with Margarito returning. His opponent, Carson Jones, has made his plea to allow the fight to happen, since he wants the opportunity to not only beat him, but to make a living. It's terrible what he did, but I really don't think this will happen again. This will be a tough fight back for Margarito too I think, but he's got to get that license back first.
torvix2000
QUOTE (Snoop @ Jan 22 2010, 09:21 PM) *
The NSAC is being REALLY lazy when it comes to cheating in sports, especially in one where you could be killed.


They're being incompetent.
torvix2000
And with drug testing, the AMATEUR DRUG TESTING COMMITTEE (who's that?) is just trying to save its own face by pointing a finger at NSAC.
gbh32001
Cheaters should be executed in the ring with each all pro boxers around the world hit him with their division gloves once. thumbsup_anim.gif
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (torvix2000 @ Jan 22 2010, 08:06 PM) *
They're being incompetent.



I think they turn a blind eye because the money is so good.
Romulus9
Last year, Benjamin Flores died after his fight with Al Seeger, in Dallas, Texas, the very same state where this licensing battle will take place. Keep that incident in mind. Seeger had nothing illegal. He simply fought, as did Flores, and Benjamin lost his life. Now...

Had Margarito made it into the ring with those wraps on (the suspicion surrounding the Cotto fight notwithstanding), and something serious had happened to Shane, and the wraps were found to be tampered with, would we be having this discussion?

Of course not. This would be open and shut. We'd all agree that a year was nothing because of what happened. Is it magically different because he got caught BEFORE the fight and a potentially awful situation was avoided?

Did Luis Resto get his license back?

No.

Margarito should not be licensed, nor should his trainer. For those trying to liken this to PEDs, it's not even close.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jan 22 2010, 08:47 PM) *
Last year, Benjamin Flores died after his fight with Al Seeger, in Dallas, Texas, the very same state where this licensing battle will take place. Keep that incident in mind. Seeger had nothing illegal. He simply fought, as did Flores, and Benjamin lost his life. Now...

Had Margarito made it into the ring with those wraps on (the suspicion surrounding the Cotto fight notwithstanding), and something serious had happened to Shane, and the wraps were found to be tampered with, would we be having this discussion?

Of course not. This would be open and shut. We'd all agree that a year was nothing because of what happened. Is it magically different because he got caught BEFORE the fight and a potentially awful situation was avoided?

Did Luis Resto get his license back?

No.

Margarito should not be licensed, nor should his trainer. For those trying to liken this to PEDs, it's not even close.



Explain why you dont think they are close?
Romulus9
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 22 2010, 09:11 PM) *
Explain why you dont think they are close?



A loaded glove is, in and of itself, a deadly weapon.

Someone who is on PEDs, while assumed to have an advantage of some kind, is not given the same kind of directly lethal advantage that loaded gloves would present.

Neither is right and should be punished, but loaded gloves are far worse, far more dangerous. Plenty of fighters have been severely injured or killed over the years, and against a fighters without loaded gloves. PED's will in fact give a fighter an advantage, most likely regarding stamina, number of punches thrown, and the like. That is true. To assume that fact is to assume that the advantage would not be present until later in the fight, where the additional stamina would enter into play. That is not the case with loaded gloves, for which the potentially lethal effect would be present on each and every punch that lands for the entire duration of the fight. That is one big reason that I believe loaded gloves to be far worse.

Of course, a fighter on PEDs with loaded gloves should be executed on the spot.

Ask the family of Billy Collins if Margarito should get his license back. Bring them all in for testimony and see what they have to say. Panama Lewis probably wouldn't be a good choice though.

No license.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jan 22 2010, 10:31 PM) *
A loaded glove is, in and of itself, a deadly weapon.

Someone who is on PEDs, while assumed to have an advantage of some kind, is not given the same kind of directly lethal advantage that loaded gloves would present.

Neither is right and should be punished, but loaded gloves are far worse, far more dangerous. Plenty of fighters have been severely injured or killed over the years, and against a fighters without loaded gloves. PED's will in fact give a fighter an advantage, most likely regarding stamina, number of punches thrown, and the like. That is true. To assume that fact is to assume that the advantage would not be present until later in the fight, where the additional stamina would enter into play. That is not the case with loaded gloves, for which the potentially lethal effect would be present on each and every punch that lands for the entire duration of the fight. That is one big reason that I believe loaded gloves to be far worse.

Of course, a fighter on PEDs with loaded gloves should be executed on the spot.

Ask the family of Billy Collins if Margarito should get his license back. Bring them all in for testimony and see what they have to say. Panama Lewis probably wouldn't be a good choice though.

No license.


Great post.
gbh32001
If they let go of Jones and Mosley, Margarito is no different. When there is a money involved, cheating is rampant and those who got caught should received penalty according to their case. With Margarito's case, his trainer already paid the price and Margarito himself served the penalty he deserved, but if people want him to be banned in boxing they should addressed that to the commission or they can boycott Margarito's fight or at least go to the long process of changing the system.
Same case with Floyd for the olympic type of testing to be implemented, it's a good start but a long process.
MarzB
There's a huge difference. First off all PED's aren't the same hence why we refer to them as "PEDs" and not the generic "steroids" term.

In other words, the effects of them aren't always about POWER where someone is trying to liken this to being punched by "bricks".

Percy did an interview with Nazim Richardson where he made an EXCELLENT point about the Margarito/Cotto clash. In that interview Nazim said, "I was very suspicious because he was throwing punches at Cotto in areas fighters don't throw punches like the crown/top of the head, elbows etc."

I rewatched that fight and he was SPOT on. The point I bring that up is that "I BELIEVE" that he did have loaded gloves against Cotto and the picture they showed during the Pacquiao/Cotto fight of his wraps when he held his hands up in victory where there was blood on the wraps confirms it that he's a cheating SOB IMO.

PEDs, some will increase stamina, anerobic conditioning. Some will relieve muscle wearyness that that allows a fighter NOT to be drained if they punch themselves out. Etc.

Steroids/PEDs aren't going to make you a better hitter or into a slugger that some are alleging. What they will do is help your body generally speaking sustain a high rate of activity that you normally wouldn't be able to do.

I say that to say PED's are terrible and definitely should be tested for in boxing IMO but I don't at all compare that to loaded gloves.

If this were a track meet where one runner was using PED's, his opposing runner would have on ROCKET shoes so to speak.

Not at all a fair comparison.

Let the piece of schit comeback and hopefully someone bludgeons him.
D-MARV
Soemone already mentioned it and it was a great point... Margarito is ONLY guilty of attempting to load his gloves. I think he should get his license back. Besides the first legit fighter he fights will destroy him. I'm not sure Margarito gets past Carson Jones at this point.
Romulus9
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Jan 23 2010, 04:01 PM) *
Soemone already mentioned it and it was a great point... Margarito is ONLY guilty of attempting to load his gloves. I think he should get his license back. Besides the first legit fighter he fights will destroy him. I'm not sure Margarito gets past Carson Jones at this point.



Of course. He only attempted to load his gloves. Let's give him his license, get him a fight in a place where the commission isn't competent to effectively spot improper wraps and/or against a fighter who has a trainer who doesn't have the eye to see it, have someone permanently injured or killed because of it, and THEN ban him.

What he and his trainer did was a blatant and dangerous attempt to not only gain an advantage, but to do so in a way that could end the opponent's career, permanently injure him, or worse. It's disgusting and shameful.

Why stop at giving his license back? Let's lobby for him to get an immediate title shot and let Panama Lewis train the son of a bitch. I'm sure he could use the cash and I know he's learned his lesson. Just try to spot the black bottle in the corner before the commission's inspector catches on and takes it away.

Margacheato shouldn't step foot in a ring again unless it's in an unsanctioned bare-knuckle fight in a barn 15 miles outside Tijuana, and even in that fight... I hope he gets his sorry ass kicked from here to 10 miles from nowhere.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Jan 23 2010, 04:32 PM) *
Of course. He only attempted to load his gloves. Let's give him his license, get him a fight in a place where the commission isn't competent to effectively spot improper wraps and/or against a fighter who has a trainer who doesn't have the eye to see it, have someone permanently injured or killed because of it, and THEN ban him.

LMAO... You won't have to worry about him being illegally wrapped ever again.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Jan 23 2010, 05:01 PM) *
Soemone already mentioned it and it was a great point... Margarito is ONLY guilty of attempting to load his gloves. I think he should get his license back. Besides the first legit fighter he fights will destroy him. I'm not sure Margarito gets past Carson Jones at this point.


StyleZ as a knowledgeable dude I'm surprised at this post.

Getting caught just before the fight is no different than getting caught after the fight. The ONLY difference is that he would've had the chance to unload those concrete mitts on Mosley's head for 6,7 or however many rounds and may have even won the fight. Surely there is a significant advantage to hitting the guy with solid plaster?

For me intent to commit the crime is a good as committing the crime itself. The only way you could convince me otherwise would be to prove that Marg had every intention of changing his mind and not go through with using those 'weapons' which of course is laughable.



Romulus9
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Jan 23 2010, 05:59 PM) *
StyleZ as a knowledgeable dude I'm surprised at this post.

Getting caught just before the fight is no different than getting caught after the fight. The ONLY difference is that he would've had the chance to unload those concrete mitts on Mosley's head for 6,7 or however many rounds and may have even won the fight. Surely there is a significant advantage to hitting the guy with solid plaster?

For me intent to commit the crime is a good as committing the crime itself. The only way you could convince me otherwise would be to prove that Marg had every intention of changing his mind and not go through with using those 'weapons' which of course is laughable.



Agreed.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Fitz @ Jan 23 2010, 07:25 PM) *
The idea sounds great on paper, but doesn't matter what type of court it is. "Attempting" is always a different crime than committing it. Not saying it's right or wrong, but whether in a court of law or something. Attempted murder is a different punishment to murder. It's the way it is.


I realize that Fitz hence the use of the word 'I' in my response. My take on the subject is a completely presonal one. I've always known that that scumbag would get a licence somewhere and would inevitably fight again but if I had my way this arsehole would be looking for a new job.

The law (in my opinion) is an ass on this one.

I'll just have to leave it to karma and hope that this prick ends up taking the beating of a lifetime somewhere in the future.
D-MARV
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Jan 23 2010, 07:39 PM) *
I realize that Fitz hence the use of the word 'I' in my response. My take on the subject is a completely presonal one. I've always known that that scumbag would get a licence somewhere and would inevitably fight again but if I had my way this arsehole would be looking for a new job.

The law (in my opinion) is an ass on this one.

I'll just have to leave it to karma and hope that this prick ends up taking the beating of a lifetime somewhere in the future.

Thats what it comes down to for me... Margarito is a scumbag. I do, however, think he served his 1 year suspenison and should be allowed to make money the ONLY way he has ever made money. He'll never be a champion again. He will get his ASS handed to him once again and I will love every second of it.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (the ollie reed fan club @ Jan 23 2010, 05:59 PM) *
StyleZ as a knowledgeable dude I'm surprised at this post.

Getting caught just before the fight is no different than getting caught after the fight. The ONLY difference is that he would've had the chance to unload those concrete mitts on Mosley's head for 6,7 or however many rounds and may have even won the fight. Surely there is a significant advantage to hitting the guy with solid plaster?

For me intent to commit the crime is a good as committing the crime itself. The only way you could convince me otherwise would be to prove that Marg had every intention of changing his mind and not go through with using those 'weapons' which of course is laughable.


The thing is, that he was allowed to go on and fight that night. If you attempt to murder someone, they dont generally give you your gun back and let you walk free. Not only did he take the beating of his life, he was also banned for a year. He claims ignorance and his trainer took the full blame for the incident. Just like Mosley claimed ignorance, he was never punished. Its a matter of what you beleive. I think the guy should be given a 2nd chance. I think his wraps will be more scrutinized than any other fighter.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 23 2010, 07:52 PM) *
The thing is, that he was allowed to go on and fight that night. If you attempt to murder someone, they dont generally give you your gun back and let you walk free. Not only did he take the beating of his life, he was also banned for a year. He claims ignorance and his trainer took the full blame for the incident. Just like Mosley claimed ignorance, he was never punished. Its a matter of what you beleive. I think the guy should be given a 2nd chance. I think his wraps will be more scrutinized than any other fighter.


Correct and I don't believe him.

It's like the Pac situation. So far I've defended him coz I haven't seen any substantial evidence that he is juicing, just a lot of speculation about his head and size of his calves laugh.gif

Now if something concrete comes to light then i won't be buying the 'I didn't know what my trainer gave me' line, coz that's B.S and we all know it.

For the record as much as i like Shane I don't belive him either.

So back to my point, I'm pretty sure Marg knew what his trainer was up and played along, I don't care if Mosley gave him a pummeling, that is irrelevant (to me). I don't like the fact he got his licence back, nor the way Arum tried to protect him.

As for the attempted murder thing, hey did OJ ever get his knife back? laugh.gif
Jack 1000
A person's livelihood has to have consequences when wrong doing is so severe that it brings about unlawful activity. The only difference between Margarito-Mosley and Collins-Resto is that one cunt of a trainer and his fighter were caught before the fight, prosecuted, and given life bans. (Panama Lewis and his fighter Luis Resto.) The other cunt of a trainer Javier Capetillo and Margarito get a one year "Don't do that" slap on the wrist and "Cheato" is being petitioned to fight again.

What's to stop these trainers and fighters from doing this shit again if all they get is a one-year ban with a "Leave it to Beaver" say you're sorry speech and than they fight again with the promoters thinking "Oh, well, that's OK, He knows what he did was wrong? A one year ban isn't shit. Fighters often take 1-2 years off between fights. Margarito's punishment was joke and and an outrage to the people of boxing.

The real issue that needs to be examined is what would have happened if Mosley's trainer Naz Richardson had not caught the illegal wraps in time? Would Margarito still only be given a one year suspension because we don't want to take away his livelihood? I guess in today's boxing world, "I'm sorry" is good enough to overturn any wrongdoing.

Jack
torvix2000
Well, I guess us boxing fans should also adapt. We can all start rooting for the fighter with loaded gloves. Perhaps it will be more exciting.
King Eugene
Margarito shouldn't be allowed in any boxing venues. Let him work in a fruit field for the rest of his life. This is the hurt business...not the attempt to kill business. 3-5 years minimum!
Spyder
The only way that I'd ever root for Margacheato is if he came to the ring with Mini Daddy!

torvix2000
Pacland
by: elven (poster)

Once upon a time in Toledo, Ohio on July 4, 1919, a 6'1" popular challenger weighing only 187 lbs. faced a 245 lbs., 6'6" durable Heavyweight Champion. So sure was Jack "Doc" Kearn, the Manager of the challenger, of a first round knockout that he bet his fighter's entire purse on it.

Incredibly, Jack "Manassa Mauler" almost pulled it off had the deafening noise of 18,000 excited fans not drowned the sound of the bell. When the long confusion was settled, the Champ was declared saved by the bell after the last knock down. Dempsey had to cut short his celebration inside his dressing room and immediately scrambled back into the ring to inflict more severe punishment in the next two rounds. The bloodied and battered champ eventually quit before the 4th round.

In the first three minutes of round one alone, Dempsey knocked Willard down seven times. First of those was the now famous "Dempsey Roll".
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Jack Dempsey might have lost the bet but he won the crown in a fashion regarded by boxing historians, including Hank Kaplan and Bert Sugar, as the most brutal ever. Jess Willard resembled someone who had just been thru a bad car crash than a boxing match.

To what extent is Jess Willard's injuries? Here's the breakdown;
- Nose completely smashed
- Busted lips
- Cheekbones shattered in twelve places
- Jaw broken in seven places
- Cracked two ribs
- Smashed eye socket
- four teeth flew somewhere in the ring
- Partial loss of hearing

In Dr. Ferdie Pacheco's words (Boxing expert, more known as Ali's physician)...
"He had more damage than everyone i have ever seen in 40 years of being a fight Doctor. Now, after taking care of thousands of boxers, every kind of heavy punching heavyweight fights i've been in, with Liston, with Foreman, with Tyson, i've never seen this kind of injury."

When Dr. Pacheco asked Jack Dempsey's biographer Roger Kahn (Flame of Pure Fire) to explain it, the latter hardly laid out solid facts that those injuries were legally inflicted.

For decades of mental and physical anguish, Jess Willard couldn't fathom how he sustained such comprehensive beatdown as there had not been similar injuries incurred by Jack Dempsey's knockout victims before and after their encounter. At old age, his jaw was still caved in and part of his cheekbone moved around like a loose coin inside when touched. He maintained that no small man could hit that hard without using Plaster-of-Paris like substance on his hand wraps.

Dempsey remained firm on his innocence until his death in 1983 despite Doc Kearn's(his former Manager) confession in 1964 that his gloves were indeed loaded.

________________________________



Fast forward to 1983 at Madison Square Garden on June 16.

Billy Collins, Jr. was a young, undefeated Welterweight prospect with a ring record of 14 wins, 11 by knockouts when he battled light-punching journeyman Luis Resto( 20 wins, 8 losses, 8 knockouts) in the undercard of Roberto Duran vs. Davy Moore.

Working in Resto's corner was Panama Lewis, also known as Aaron Pryor's coach who gave his fighter the mysterious "drink" before stopping Alexis Arguello in the first fight.

What supposed to be a routine tune up for Billy to pad his record turned into a gruesome nightmare.
Even those shots by Resto to the body and hands hurt.
Billy complained to his corner in between rounds that Resto's fists hit like bricks but the kid bravely fought on.
As rounds passed by, his face gradually transformed into a grotesque mask...

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Resto was giving Billy the ceremonial beating of his life right before a stunned crowd.
The kid cringed in the ensuing heated exchanges. Each thudding blow to the face and head worried his team, especially his father in tow.
It was painfully evident that Billy was fighting back on pure instincts alone but somehow, he managed to see the last bell in the 10th round clearly the loser.

After the unanimous verdict formalized Billy's first loss, his father, Billy, Sr., reached out for Resto's hand to congratulate him. To his surprise, he felt nothing but leather on Resto's glove, the padding had been removed. And worse, it was later discovered upon the investigation NYSAC that Resto's hand wraps were soaked in Plaster of Paris.

Billy's promising boxing career ended at 21 years of age right after diagnosed with torn iris. That the permanent eye injury would inevitably cause him to go blind.

As a result, Billy's life turned into a downward spiral, succumbing to drugs, alcohol and extreme depression. Eight months after the tragic fight, Billy crashed his car into a culvert which many believed as a deliberate suicide.

Luis Resto and Coach Panama Lewis were later jailed for 2 1/2 years and permanently banned from boxing.

______________________________


Back to the future with Shane Mosley vs. Antonio Margarito on January 24, 2009 at LA, Staples Center.

Before the fight, Larry Merchant announced that an illegal substance, commonly known as plaster of Paris, was found in Margarito's hand wraps.
Hence, the show went on with Mosley knocking out Margarito in the 9th round.

To further compound his woes, Antonio Margarito along with his Coach, Javier Capetillo were deemed guilty by CSAC or California State Athletic Commission and later suspended from boxing for one year across 29 States.

Larry Merchant believed that Margarito was illegally loaded against Cotto.
Kermit Cintron too in his two knockout losses against him.
Freddie Roach wanted Margarito banned for life in boxing.
Vast number of fans and boxing insiders are against Margarito's reinstatement.

Pardon me for making this thread quite long but in the wake of Antonio Margarito's imminent return in the under card of Pacquiao vs. Cotto,
I am one of those voices who strongly objects such move.
Given the often told dreadful tales of loaded gloves above,
I could almost imagine what damage he would have caused Shane Mosley had his misdeed was consummated.

Let's admit it, part of Cotto died when he lost his will against Margarito, and upon learning about the cheating later. Although we could only speculate but looking back at Margarito's history, never was he known as a hard-punching bruiser until we saw the bloody mess he painted on Cotto's face.

The assaulted bloody faces of Willard and Collins are the ugly side of boxing.
Stark reminders of what illegal violence could do to innocent victims.
Must we forgive Antonio Margarito because his deadly harm has been aborted?

We all have opinions regarding that matter
but we don't have to ask ourselves "What if" or "What could have happened" to Mosley.
We don't need to look further for the answers,
history has long been around for us to learn.

Some might have gotten away with the crime but for those who didn't,
I believe Margarito should have been dealt the same verdict
as Luis Resto and Panama Lewis...

Lifetime ban from boxing.
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