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Full Version: Prime Chavez/Whitaker vs. this era of 140/147
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BigG
Vs. Pacquiao

Vs. Mayweather

Vs. Mosley

Vs. Cotto

Vs. Margarito

Vs. Clottey

Vs. Williams

Vs. Berto
blackbelt2003
Good question, G.


I'd say that at 140, Chavez and Whitaker have got the drop on everyone, including Money May.

At 147, however, Chavez was never as good and Whitaker was a touch slower.


At 147, I think Chavez would lose to everyone on the list bar Clottey, and Berto would be 50/50 with him.


Whitaker would beat everyone on the list bar Floyd (who is a big strong welter with speed to match Pea), Williams and even Mosley may have gone to the wire with him.




Black
Provo209
Chavez at 140 would beat Pac however Pac on HGH would, I hate to say it destroy Chavez..

Whitaker vs Mayweather would be a interesting fight.

Clottey would loose to both!
Shane also!

Chavez at 140 vs Cotto would be a hella of a fight. Chavez wins.. That would be a war .....
kidbazooka1
Chavez would beat everyone at 140lb with Floyd being his toughest fight.

Whitaker would beat everyone at 140lb except for maybe Floyd IMO.

Chavez had no buisnees fighting at 147lb Pea on the other hand would be right in the mix in this era.
Big Slim Sweet
Margarito would eat Pea's biggest bombs, grind him down and stop him late!

Everyone else Pea destroys!

And all those guys mop the ring with Chavez Jr. Please!
D-MARV
QUOTE (Sweetness @ Mar 17 2010, 10:08 PM) *
Margarito would eat Pea's biggest bombs, grind him down and stop him late!

thumbsdown_anim.gif


BOOOOOOOOO! That's not like you brother... That's the EASIEST pick of the bunch. Sweet Pea OWNS Margarito.
KookedKrack
QUOTE (Sweetness @ Mar 17 2010, 10:08 PM) *
Margarito would eat Pea's biggest bombs, grind him down and stop him late!


hmm wide looping punches catching Whitaker at ANY point in the fight is a tough pill for me to swallow.
D-MARV
Margarito wouldn't stand a "snowball's chance in hell" against Whitaker.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Mar 17 2010, 09:15 PM) *
thumbsdown_anim.gif


BOOOOOOOOO! That's not like you brother... That's the EASIEST pick of the bunch. Sweet Pea OWNS Margarito.


And that's not like YOU brother... Sarcasm like that shouldn't be so hard to spot.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (Sweetness @ Mar 17 2010, 09:08 PM) *
Margarito would eat Pea's biggest bombs, grind him down and stop him late!

Everyone else Pea destroys!

And all those guys mop the ring with Chavez Jr. Please!


Chavez Sr. not Jr. buddy.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Sweetness @ Mar 18 2010, 12:54 AM) *
And that's not like YOU brother... Sarcasm like that shouldn't be so hard to spot.

LOL... Oh!
King Eugene
The first time they fought against each other Whitaker should have gotten the win. The draw was ridiculous.
Maxy
Whitaker beats them all at both weights. Chavez beats them all at 140 but at 147 he might struggle with a couple.
Keith
Vs. Mayweather - Floyd cant outbox Pea and has to turn into a puncher... he cant effectively solve the southpaw and it turns in to a tactical stalemate, I could very well see a legitimate draw with 12 close rounds to try and score. Chavez gets embarrassed against Floyd... too fast and too smart for Chavez to methodically wear down.

Vs. Mosley - Mosley loses, finding it incredibly frustrating to land his right hand against the defensive southpaw... Pea effectively jabs, moves right, and is still quick enough to avoid Shanes left hook, Pea pot shots Mosley to a competetive unanimous decision. Mosley ko's Chavez... Shanes size, speed, and power prove to be to much for a fighter that typically wore down his opponents.

Vs. Cotto -

Cotto is a 50/50 tossup against Pea, split decision either way. He gets outboxed, but Cotto has only had serious trouble against pressure fighters with power, against Pea... Cotto gets to be the pressure fighter. Cotto gets beaten up by Chavez.... They are similar fighters but Chavez is a bit better in every way.

Vs. Margarito -

Margarito makes it interesting against Pea but ultimately looks bad too often... Pea cant discourage Margarito from pressuring him but finds it extremely difficult to land enough punches to wear him down. Chavez outboxes Margarito in a toe to toe battle... Chavez rattles Margaritos thin torso over and over with pinpoint accuracy.

Vs. Clottey -

Clottey loses a wide unanimous decision in a boring fight against Pea... Pea looks like a volume puncher in this one, Clottey throws very little and lands almost nothing of substance. Chavez cracks Clottey's defenses with an effective jab and brutal body attack... he keeps Clottey in the high guard with constant punching and wins a wide unanimous decision.

Vs. Williams -

Williams completly overwelms Pea and wins by tko. Pea counters effectively early on but can never hurt PWill, Pea ducks, dodges, and slips many of PWills punches but that snowballs into PWill to throwing 100+ a round.

Vs. Berto -

Berto gets completely outclassed by Pea. Berto leaps in and gets timed with an effective jab repeatedly... Pea is too smart to get wrestled to death by Berto. Chavez beats this man like he owes him money.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Sweetness @ Mar 17 2010, 09:08 PM) *
Margarito would eat Pea's biggest bombs, grind him down and stop him late!

Everyone else Pea destroys!

And all those guys mop the ring with Chavez Jr. Please!


Possibly the part about Pea throwing bombs should have given it away. laugh.gif

I think Williams at 147 is hard for either of those guys to beat. At 140 I think it is hard for anyone on the current list to beat them.

PBF/Pea is an interesting fight for pretty much the reasons that Keith bought up. Note I say interesting rather than exciting.

I would also be interested to see how Floyd copes with Chavez' intensity and pressure. I'm not sure he does.
JLUVBABY
prime pernell whitaker beats all these cats including lil floyd at both weights... chavez struggles with any of them listed that are pure boxers...

side note... imo... pernell deserves to be listed somewhere in the top 10 all time group... he was that damn good a fighter... he is what lil floyd wants to be...
LivingLegend
vs Mosley...mosley lose to pernell but beat chavez...pernell lets shane try to be aggressive and simply outsmart by never letting him land his right hand and left hook...chavez fights hard but mosley's size, power, and athletic ability is the difference.

vs Margarito...both these guys beat margarito..just not skilled enough to deal with pernell and chavez stands toe to toe an knock him out

vs clottey...both defeat clottey as well..not enough offensive ability

vs berto...berto's speed an power play a big role in these fights but his lack of experiecne cause him to lose...give him more experience and i think he take them both into deep waters...not sayin he would win though

vs cotto...pernell out points cotto by either split or majority...cotto and chavez is a toss up...somebody will knock the other out

vs Floyd Mayweather Jr...imo..the best to ever lace em' up...floyd outclasses chavez that simple...just a better all around fighter and smarter too...Prime Pernell vs Prime Floyd...hard to say cause they styles are so similar but got to give it to floyd...just think he find some kind of way to win in a very technical fight...if Prime Floyd vs Prime Pernell was to every happen...GREATEST FIGHT EVER HANDS DOWN IMO
Keith
QUOTE (LivingLegend @ Mar 19 2010, 11:57 AM) *
vs berto...berto's speed an power play a big role in these fights but his lack of experiecne cause him to lose...give him more experience and i think he take them both into deep waters...not sayin he would win though


Berto was taken into deep water by Collazo and couldnt beat up Urango in the same manner that a smaller Devon Alexander just did... thats the caliber of fighter that Berto is. He stands little chance in a fight against either of them.

QUOTE (LivingLegend @ Mar 19 2010, 11:57 AM) *
vs cotto...pernell out points cotto by either split or majority...cotto and chavez is a toss up...somebody will knock the other out


If somebody is getting ko'd in a Chavez vs Cotto fight, it would be Cotto. Cotto is a solid puncher but Chavez had a ridiculous chin. Chavez had heavy hands and its already been proven Cotto wilts under pressure.

QUOTE (LivingLegend @ Mar 19 2010, 11:57 AM) *
vs Floyd Mayweather Jr...imo..the best to ever lace em' up...floyd outclasses chavez that simple...just a better all around fighter and smarter too...Prime Pernell vs Prime Floyd...hard to say cause they styles are so similar but got to give it to floyd...just think he find some kind of way to win in a very technical fight...if Prime Floyd vs Prime Pernell was to every happen...GREATEST FIGHT EVER HANDS DOWN IMO


Why would this be the greatest fighter ever?... Hands down no less! laugh.gif It would be interesting to watch but it would not have the tempo of a great fight... 2 defensive wizards looking for the perfect opportunity to punch. I think you would would have 2 guys staring and circling each other for most of every round.
neophyte7
Floyd beats Whitaker's coke head ass... and a Prime Mosley has a shot against his dope fiend ass as well.. all the other even on coke Whitaker could handle... except Pac would give Crackhead a hard time too...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Mar 19 2010, 06:20 PM) *
Floyd beats Whitaker's coke head ass... and a Prime Mosley has a shot against his dope fiend ass as well.. all the other even on coke Whitaker could handle... except Pac would give Crackhead a hard time too...


how much of whitaker have you actually seen? the man was damn near untouchable... defensive wizard...
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Mar 19 2010, 06:20 PM) *
Floyd beats Whitaker's coke head ass... and a Prime Mosley has a shot against his dope fiend ass as well.. all the other even on coke Whitaker could handle... except Pac would give Crackhead a hard time too...


how much of whitaker have you actually seen? the man was damn near untouchable... defensive wizard...
neophyte7
His defense was tremendous...I give him that, But Floy'ds defense is just as good if not better and PBF punches with more of an arsenal of punches. The light hitting Coke head would lose to Mayweather...
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Mar 20 2010, 04:33 AM) *
His defense was tremendous...I give him that, But Floy'ds defense is just as good if not better and PBF punches with more of an arsenal of punches. The light hitting Coke head would lose to Mayweather...



I would favor Whitaker slightly over PBF at both there bests. You sound a little harsh towards Pernell by your insults, so your views seem pretty biased. I have seen over just about every Whitaker and Mayweather fights they ever had too. I seen 100% of all there televised fights.

Also about a Chavez-Mayweather fight. Let me remind a few of you guys that are picking Mayweather or saying he would beat Chavez fairly easily. I am not judging anyone, but any of you guys seen Chavez at his peak? I mean Floyd in his prime should have lost to Castillo in the first fight, and Castillo was very competitive in the second fight. Castillo was a sparring partner for Chavez. I would easily pick Chavez to batter PBF with his body punches and pressure that Castillo was so effective with. See, PBF does not hit hard enough and could not keep Castillo off him, he even had trouble keeping Hatton off him. Now imagine with Chavez' chin, stamina, body punching, and pressure what he would do to Floyd? No doubt Chavez by late stoppage.
neophyte7
dude Chavez would be bleeding like a stuck pig... he would get cut to shreds... He is too one dimensional and a face fighter.. This is aint Meldrick Taylor this is PBF. Castillo I is mentioned again ... he lost and Floyd was hurt.. in the rematch he came back to the corner in between rounds shaking his head and admitted that PBF's style was difficult. Now back to P whitaker... I am just clowning around saying he was a coke head etc... because I see him now and he looks and speaks like a 125th street dope fiend... Last year I WAS IN harlem at at&t and I see Meldrick Taylor walk in to pay his cell phone bill... dude looked like straight up fiend... I felt sorry for him. I acknowledged him...

about 10 years ago in a bar in manhattan I saw Renaldo Snipes drinking his sorrows away.. I kicked it with him and his eyes lit up to be recognized...

Any way P whitaker great no doubt- but I think PBF is better overall in every category
Keith
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Mar 20 2010, 04:46 AM) *
Also about a Chavez-Mayweather fight. Let me remind a few of you guys that are picking Mayweather or saying he would beat Chavez fairly easily. I am not judging anyone, but any of you guys seen Chavez at his peak?


I would say the Chavez that entered the ring against M. Taylor was peak. Agree?

QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Mar 20 2010, 04:46 AM) *
I mean Floyd in his prime should have lost to Castillo in the first fight, and Castillo was very competitive in the second fight.


I would disagree. Floyd was not at his peak against Castillo. He was close, but I think physically and experience/skill development his prime occured at 140-47 before the psuedo retirement. Whatever the reason, its too bad that Floyd spent that time fighting bums.

On the other hand, that was the prime version of Castillo and Floyd still beat him... twice. I have no problem with people who believe Castillo won the first fight, but it was not a hands down clear victory and ultimately the judges saw it the other way.

QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Mar 20 2010, 04:46 AM) *
I would easily pick Chavez to batter PBF with his body punches and pressure that Castillo was so effective with. See, PBF does not hit hard enough and could not keep Castillo off him, he even had trouble keeping Hatton off him.


Certainly Chavez would pressure Floyd, but I think its a bit of an exageration to say he could not keep Castillo or Hatton off of him. Floyd was never seriously hurt by Castillo. Castillo fought him well but he never really got to Floyd... there was never any desperation on Floyds part in those 2 fights.

And there was never anything effective about Hattons pressure. If anything, that fight showed that Floyd could effectively tie up and clinch a fighter who tried to mug him.

QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Mar 20 2010, 04:46 AM) *
Now imagine with Chavez' chin, stamina, body punching, and pressure what he would do to Floyd? No doubt Chavez by late stoppage.


There are 3 fights I looked at when I determined Chavez would not be competetive against Floyd. Meldrick Taylor's speed gave Chavez serious problems, Chavez found it incredibley difficult to hit Whitaker, and Chavez had an awful time with DLH's jab (I admit Chavez was past his peak there). Floyd has similar hand/foot speed to Taylor, is tough to hit clean like Whitaker, and has an effective jab like DLH.

I usually come off as a Floyd hater, but the dude has sick skills that match-up against Chavez pretty well imo.

This post might get my Haters license revoked. Satan please help me... diablo.gif
Mean Mister Mustard
Mayweather did certain things in the Castillo fights that indicated that he was having a herder time than usual. For example in both fights he spent the 12th round running. Did he think he had the fight won or was he out of gas and refuse to get into an exchange with Castillo?

Also in the 1st fight he stopped running in the 11th and actually stood toe to toe with Castillo. He was trying to make a statement to Castillo and leave an imprint in the fight by trying to outfight him. He got the worst of it.

Now Chavez had as good a chin as Castillo, tremendous stamina like Castillo, shifty deceptively good defense, hevy hands, heart but also faster hands than Castillo, more activity and smarter. Castillo was a very good fighter, Chavez was a great one. If Mayweather beats him you better believe he would go through hell to do it. Taylor was outboxing Chavez but he was doing it by throwing non stop to and in the end he still took the harder shots and was stopped. Mayweather would not throw punches at the rate that Taylor was, he would be sticking and moving with better defense but that would only make Chavez follow him faster.

Moreover Chavez only started bleeding like a stuck pig when he got old and started taking more punches. In his prime he wasn't cut that much.

On to Whitaker. Sure he was not Tyson, but the man could throw with gusto and always got the respect of the guys he fought.
neophyte7
I disagree with your assessment of Castillo getting the best of mayweather in the 11th round. It was that round in my eyes which made a statement to Castillo as he stood fought and clearly landed the cleaner more telling blows... what damage did Castillo inflict?
Mean Mister Mustard
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Mar 20 2010, 01:20 PM) *
I disagree with your assessment of Castillo getting the best of mayweather in the 11th round. It was that round in my eyes which made a statement to Castillo as he stood fought and clearly landed the cleaner more telling blows... what damage did Castillo inflict?


You think Mayweather wasn't damaged? You think those body shots he absorbed throughout the night did no damage?
neophyte7
Just as was mentioned early... Floyd never appeared hurt in the bout. When he went to to toe with Castillo he landed hard telling blows- to his head. The bloody nose Castillo sported made it obvious.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Mar 20 2010, 03:57 AM) *
dude Chavez would be bleeding like a stuck pig... he would get cut to shreds... He is too one dimensional and a face fighter.. This is aint Meldrick Taylor this is PBF. Castillo I is mentioned again ... he lost and Floyd was hurt.. in the rematch he came back to the corner in between rounds shaking his head and admitted that PBF's style was difficult. Now back to P whitaker... I am just clowning around saying he was a coke head etc... because I see him now and he looks and speaks like a 125th street dope fiend... Last year I WAS IN harlem at at&t and I see Meldrick Taylor walk in to pay his cell phone bill... dude looked like straight up fiend... I felt sorry for him. I acknowledged him...


Thats how i know you haven't seen much of Chavez in his prime because if you did you would know that the guy never cut nor bruised he was known for having very thick skin.

Your obviousley judgeing Chavez by his perfromances against DLH, Gonzales and Tyszu that was an over the hill Chavez who was fighting on memeory he was done by the time those guys got to him a prime JCC would have beaten the sh*t out of those guys.

Very sad though that most young fans only remember the ageing Chavez not the guy was who a master at cutting of the ring, the best bodypuncher in the game, iron chin, exceptional stamina and beautifully controlled agression Chavez.
JD
The best version of Chavez was the one that tore up Edwin Rosario...that Chavez at lightweight against Floyd at lightweight would be very interesting.

As for whose defense was better...Whitaker or Floyd's, I will take Pea's. Sweet Pea was not only harder to hit in his prime (which is saying a lot), but he was also better at mixing offense back in and scoring.
BigG
QUOTE (blackbelt2003 @ Mar 17 2010, 05:20 PM) *
Good question, G.


I'd say that at 140, Chavez and Whitaker have got the drop on everyone, including Money May.

At 147, however, Chavez was never as good and Whitaker was a touch slower.


At 147, I think Chavez would lose to everyone on the list bar Clottey, and Berto would be 50/50 with him.


Whitaker would beat everyone on the list bar Floyd (who is a big strong welter with speed to match Pea), Williams and even Mosley may have gone to the wire with him.




Black


I agree with most except at 140 I think Pac and Mayweather beat Chavez.

Whitaker beats everyone in that list with Floyd being the toughest fight
AussieLad
QUOTE (Keith @ Mar 20 2010, 01:45 PM) *
I would disagree. Floyd was not at his peak against Castillo. He was close, but I think physically and experience/skill development his prime occured at 140-47 before the psuedo retirement. Whatever the reason, its too bad that Floyd spent that time fighting bums.


And thats the question. Was floyd in his prime just prior to retirement at 140/147, or was it the lower level competition he was fighting allowing him to seem that way? Personally, i think floyd prior to 140 was at his prime. And prime chavez would grind a clear decision against him
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