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Byrd Man
Who out there in the HW division do you give ANY shot at beating the Klitschkos. Who won't wilt under pressure, or go into defense mode as soon as they realize that these motherfuckers punch hard, and they can't seem to get into their range?

Haye? Adamek? Solier? Toney?

Personally I'd give Tony Toni Tone more of a shot against the Klitschkos than James Toney, but that's another story I suppose.

But seriously though, who out there do you see as being able to defeat them?

Sam Peter looks to be close to a title shot, and he drilled Wlad several times (eventually losing anyway) but that was before Stewart took over.

Will we ever see the Klitschkos lose another fight?
HaydelHammer
Not james toney at all......I just don't see him doing jack shit against either of them.

It will take a guy that can counter and is confident in his counters. A guy that when he isn't committed to doing work...stays out of range to gather himself then when he gets in range has got a freaking plan ( example: klit will jab, I need to slip it, throw my jab which will be out of range, keep forward with my right which will STILL be out of range yet I STILL press in the combination with a long left and BINGO .....IT LANDS) ...all because I pressed the big man.

these guys are 6'6 ...they are not agile and their lateral sucks. loop shots, counter combo punch, use lateral movement and move your damn head for christ sakes.....find a guy that can do all that and he beats these STATUES who are basically doing 1,2's the entire damn match.

Forehead in their chest is what my trainer used to tell me about fighting larger guys...forehead in chest and throw whatever you want...it will land..just get for head there one way or another using everything in the book to get inside faints, head movement, slips, counters, lateral

I get so frustrated watching heavyweight boxing now. Tyson had this shit mastered vs big guys. Evander also. wtf are these guys learning is my question.
Byrd Man
QUOTE (HaydelHammer @ Mar 20 2010, 09:37 PM) *
Not james toney at all......I just don't see him doing jack shit against either of them.

It will take a guy that can counter and is confident in his counters. A guy that when he isn't committed to doing work...stays out of range to gather himself then when he gets in range has got a freaking plan ( example: klit will jab, I need to slip it, throw my jab which will be out of range, keep forward with my right which will STILL be out of range yet I STILL press in the combination with a long left and BINGO .....IT LANDS) ...all because I pressed the big man.

these guys are 6'6 ...they are not agile and their lateral sucks. loop shots, counter combo punch, use lateral movement and move your damn head for christ sakes.....find a guy that can do all that and he beats these STATUES who are basically doing 1,2's the entire damn match.

Forehead in their chest is what my trainer used to tell me about fighting larger guys...forehead in chest and throw whatever you want...it will land..just get for head there one way or another using everything in the book to get inside faints, head movement, slips, counters, lateral

I get so frustrated watching heavyweight boxing now. Tyson had this shit mastered vs big guys. Evander also. wtf are these guys learning is my question.


Well, to be fair I think many of these guys go in knowing EXACTLY what they have to do, but once they're in there they just can't pull it off. The ultimate example of "easier said than done"
HaydelHammer
QUOTE (Byrd Man @ Mar 21 2010, 12:52 AM) *
Well, to be fair I think many of these guys go in knowing EXACTLY what they have to do, but once they're in there they just can't pull it off. The ultimate example of "easier said than done"



true ...very true.

this is where the debate all ends. I'm not in there, so that is where it ends pretty much. No hands on experience to see what these guys are dealing with.
d843
QUOTE (Byrd Man @ Mar 20 2010, 11:28 PM) *
Who out there in the HW division do you give ANY shot at beating the Klitschkos. Who won't wilt under pressure, or go into defense mode as soon as they realize that these motherfuckers punch hard, and they can't seem to get into their range?

Haye? Adamek? Solier? Toney?

Personally I'd give Tony Toni Tone more of a shot against the Klitschkos than James Toney, but that's another story I suppose.

But seriously though, who out there do you see as being able to defeat them?

Sam Peter looks to be close to a title shot, and he drilled Wlad several times (eventually losing anyway) but that was before Stewart took over.

Will we ever see the Klitschkos lose another fight?
tony toni tone I remember that SLOW song they had called JUST ME & U THAT'S SOME funny shit.but on a more serious note.all thes ppl r too little to fuc with either one of these dudes.maybe if they both stick around long enough & get old some1 will eventually get @ em but I doubt they stic around long enough 4 that happen. LENEX WAS THE ONLY PERSON THAT HAD A GOOD CHANCE BUT we all know how that went down.big buba scared his ass into retirement.So to answer the ?No there's now 1 out there that I see that is any real major threat .by this time next year I think big buba probably will have anounced his retirement.then wlad will end up holding all the belts 6-12 months after vitaly retires
d843
QUOTE (HaydelHammer @ Mar 20 2010, 11:37 PM) *
Not james toney at all......I just don't see him doing jack shit against either of them.

It will take a guy that can counter and is confident in his counters. A guy that when he isn't committed to doing work...stays out of range to gather himself then when he gets in range has got a freaking plan ( example: klit will jab, I need to slip it, throw my jab which will be out of range, keep forward with my right which will STILL be out of range yet I STILL press in the combination with a long left and BINGO .....IT LANDS) ...all because I pressed the big man.

these guys are 6'6 ...they are not agile and their lateral sucks. loop shots, counter combo punch, use lateral movement and move your damn head for christ sakes.....find a guy that can do all that and he beats these STATUES who are basically doing 1,2's the entire damn match.

Forehead in their chest is what my trainer used to tell me about fighting larger guys...forehead in chest and throw whatever you want...it will land..just get for head there one way or another using everything in the book to get inside faints, head movement, slips, counters, lateral

I get so frustrated watching heavyweight boxing now. Tyson had this shit mastered vs big guys. Evander also. wtf are these guys learning is my question.
EASIER SAID THAN DONE BRO
Byrd Man
QUOTE (d843 @ Mar 20 2010, 10:26 PM) *
tony toni tone I remember that SLOW song they had called JUST ME & U THAT'S SOME funny shit.




BGv2.0
This is easy.

NOBODY!

Because there is nobody....the ONLY hope for getting either of these guys out is that they hang around long enough to get old enough that some guy just HAPPENS to catch them on the night they get too old.

I personally like Haye...BUT...I still consider him a HUGE ? at HW. So there is no way I'm ready to name him as the potential Klit slayer his t-shirt makes him out to be. lol

Based on what I saw with Arreola/Vitali...I would really like to see Arreola/Wlad at some point....just because I'd like to see if Wlad could handle the pressure the way his bro did....but at the same time, Wlad is a lot more fluid than his brother and might take Arreola out sooner....but it's a matchup I'd like to see. Would still pick Wlad though.

I really think Wlad/Povetkin could be interesting...as I think Atlas being with Povetkin is a very good team up.

BUT if you are asking me to name a guy in the HW divison that I really am 90% or even 75% sure can beat these guys....there is nobody.

Like I said in a prior thread....as much as I dislike the Klits.....they at least provide consistancy....allbeit in BORING fashion.

Once they are gone....it's going to get far worse. Because you will lose that consistancy because what is left is so utterly shitty and useless....it's going to be a nightmare.

I can see the "Championship" matchups now.

Maddalone/Zumbrum

Oquendo/Minto

Sinal Sam/Solis

man....I could make endless CRAP fights with the leftovers of the HW division. It's going to be UGLY!
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
The only fighters I see having a shot against the Klitschko's is either Valuev, Haye, and Ruiz. Now hear me out here, I know this isn't exactly the popular list. Klitschko likes to keep people at the end of that jab and dominate the flow of action. He's done it with shorter fighters than him. After the 2nd round, Chambers just let Klitschko dictate the pace. Same with just about every other fighter. Valuev is 7 feet tall. He would have to reach that jab up there. He would have to fight outside of himself, which is be the agressor and come forward. Valuev would have the height and reach, and would present a different look to Wlad. Valuev has been given problems by people who can move and box. Haye, Chagaev, and Holyfield had success moving in and out on Valuev. Klitschko doesn't do that at all. Valuev would throw a long jab at a guy who's as robotic as he is. His would get there first. If he puts a right hand behind it, who knows what happens. We haven't seen Klitschko's chin tested in the last five years really. Also, if he got all agressive he may punch himself out. If he couldn't get Valuev out of there, we've seen what can happen to Wlad. These two scenarios can lead to a shot at a Valuev victory.

Haye and Ruiz would have less of a shot. I'm curious if Haye is mentally tough enough not to let Klitschko dictate the pace for 12 rounds. I think he has the movement to get inside that great jab and do work on the inside. He also has the hand speed to get to that chin. Chambers got through with some nice right hands today, and Haye hits harder than that. He's a fluid fighter, and has the skills to pull it off. He may frustrate Klitschko if he gets on that bike. He wouldn't stand right in front of Wlad, and might get him to come forward. This could lead to counter opportunities.

Ruiz-Wlad would be the most boring fight ever. However, Ruiz always comes forward, likes to get inside and hold. If there's a fighter who's mentally tough enough to go in there and charge ahead it's him. He also has a sneaky right hand on that inside that have stunned fighters before. He would hug Wlad to no end, and this could frustrate Wlad. I know it's a huge long shot, but he usually doesn't let another fighter dictate the pace at least. Even against Jones, he still kept pushing forward and getting to the inside.

Now before anybody goes off on this, I wouldn't pick any of these guys over Wlad. In fact, I truly think Wlad defeats all three by KO. However, these three have the potential to frustrate Wlad and get him out of his plan. To me, getting Wlad out of his comfort zone is the key to defeating him. He doesn't have a good chin, and may not have good stamina. Get him out that comfort zone and that can be exploited. However, A LOT easier said than done.
JonnyBlaze
I give Povetkin the biggest chance against the Klitchkos..

It really shows you have skills have gone to the back burner when none of these guys know how to parry a jab..If ya parry a jab the right way,like Marciano,Robinson,Louis,Archie,and Benny Leonard would,they'd be setting the Klitchkos up for counters all night long..How the fuck do you come into a fight and know a guy is going to be throwing A LOT of jabs at you and not be able to do shit but just cover up like a bitch and just sit there..Ya gotta try to work angles and get closer..The Klitchkos have really good jabs but by blocking them is not going to do anyone any good..You have to parry their jab or you're going to be sitting at the end of their jab all night long..When I say parry,I don't mean catch it or any of that weak ass shit,I mean send the punch away so he has to reload and not be able to double and triple up..
d843
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Mar 21 2010, 01:17 AM) *
I give Povetkin the biggest chance against the Klitchkos..

It really shows you have skills have gone to the back burner when none of these guys know how to parry a jab..If ya parry a jab the right way,like Marciano,Robinson,Louis,Archie,and Benny Leonard would,they'd be setting the Klitchkos up for counters all night long..How the fuck do you come into a fight and know a guy is going to be throwing A LOT of jabs at you and not be able to do shit but just cover up like a bitch and just sit there..Ya gotta try to work angles and get closer..The Klitchkos have really good jabs but by blocking them is not going to do anyone any good..You have to parry their jab or you're going to be sitting at the end of their jab all night long..When I say parry,I don't mean catch it or any of that weak ass shit,I mean send the punch away so he has to reload and not be able to double and triple up..
we all can say what these guys should or shouldn't be doing to win there figHT .but like iv said earlier!WHEN U GET HIT SO HARD IN YUR FUCKN MOUTH THE PLAN GOES SOUTH.WLAD WOULD RUN CIRCLES AROUND VALUEV HE IS THE SLOWEST ACTIVE BOXER TODAY.I DON'T EVEN GIVE HIM A PIECE OF CHANCE
Maxy
Today's current crop of heavyweights, bar the Klits, are all by and large, very poor, and trying to find someone capable of beating either of them is extremely difficult.

I'd perhaps give Haye the best chance of the lot simply because he is quick and carries a bit of pop. However, I find it really hard to see exactly how he could do it. Haye has a 78" reach, compared to Chambers, who has a 75" reach and continuously fell short last night.

To beat them you have to get into range. Somehow you have to slip that ramrod jab, get inside, land a couple and get out again. I really don't see anyone out there who I'd be confident of them being able to implement such a strategy.

Those jabs would put Haye in a lot of bother and the right hand that wobbled Chambers in the 2nd round would, most likely, have finished Haye.

So basically it boils down to Haye having a bit of speed and a punchers chance. Other than that there really is nothing at all.
JLUVBABY
Ty Fields will be the savior of american heavyweight fighters... a fighter of his caliber only comes around about every 50 years or so... my next pick would be everett "bigfoot" martin who will come out of retirement to destroy both klits...
Lil-lightsout
Povektin and Haye seems to be the only two guys right now with any type of chance.

But there is one heavyweight who I truly could beat the Klits if he was in his best shape, and NO it is not Toney...































it's DAVID TUA!!! Yeah, I said it. He has a great chin and if he would stay on there chest's and throw some bombs he has the best chance of any fighter right now. I know he has been very inactive, but if he could get more active and maybe he could make some noise again?
King Eugene
At this point I give Haye and Tua the best chance. Haye's speed could give the Klits problems only if he can get in and get out and be effective. Tua's chin and willingness could frustrate Wlad enough that he loses a little bit of focus and get caught with a Tua bomb. Its still less than a 50% chance of either of these happening. Deontay Wilder is the next best American Heavyweight coming up through the rankings but before he even gets to the point where he deserves a title shot the Klits will be retired. Dont be surprised if one day there is a mega fight between Wilder and Foremans son.
D-MARV
I have more of a chance to have a threesome with Alicia Keys and Rihanna than Tua has to beat either Klitschko.


THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE GUYS... DAVID HAYE

He has the ability to KO Wlad and I give him a GOOD DAMN chance to do so. Vitali is a different beast.
d843
QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Mar 21 2010, 03:17 AM) *
Ty Fields will be the savior of american heavyweight fighters... a fighter of his caliber only comes around about every 50 years or so... my next pick would be everett "bigfoot" martin who will come out of retirement to destroy both klits...
wow,ty fields ?are u serious ? frank bruno could come out of retirement & probably beat him!he's a BUM.But any way,there was a big white dude on the under card of the kliTSCHKO figHT.I think his name was nada or something can't remember.he's big & has speed & power.he knocked the dude out in the second.i'd like to see more of him. iv said defore that its gonna take a big fast strong dude to beat these guys
pcraw
I think a lot of you guys are forgetting Haye has no chin for one, two he talked all of that shit and fought very timid against Valuev and three if the rumors I hear are true of BJ Flores giving him all he can handle in camp then...well let's just say good luck with that. This won't be popular, but I say the only 2 old school heavyweights left and that's Tua and Toney. If you give Tua a shot why not Toney? They are the same height. Toney has better defense and Tua has more pop.

Here is the thing, you guys are looking for someone that can match the Klischko's reach or skill level (which in my opinion is very limited). Fuck that! The person that stands a chance against the Klitscko Brothers will be a fighter that's actually a fighter. Anyone that thought Eddie Chambers was going to go over there and back up this tough talk was kidding themselves. Stop me when you've heard this before...I'm in the best shape of my life, I'm going to go over there and shock the world, they haven't seen a fighter like me...blah blah blah and then they go over there, get tagged and bitch up. These heavyweights today are just bitches with the exception of Toney and Tua. What did we learn about Solis last night? Absolutely nothing. But they will hoist him into a fight with one of the Klitschko's and it will look very similar to the Arreola fight. These guys just bitch up man.

If you watch the Wlad/Brewster fight, Lamon, after taking a beating trying to outbox and be cute just said, fuck it. He threw caution into the wind and just came out to fight. Sam Peter had some success doing the same thing to Wlad.
BigG
I'm with Maxy, I think it's maybe Haye. Povketin will get crushed against either Klitschko

I think Tua gets killed against either Klitschko at this point. Jab and hold all night to a UD.

I honestly think Chambers was the best contender out there that I've seen and he got destroyed...I dont think theres anyone left to challenge Klitschkos except for Haye

Haye didn't put on a great showing vs Valuev and every Klitschko fight since the Brewster loss has been a dominant victory but I feel Haye has got the speed to give the Klitschko's trouble.
JLUVBABY
QUOTE (d843 @ Mar 21 2010, 10:11 AM) *
wow,ty fields ?are u serious ? frank bruno could come out of retirement & probably beat him!he's a BUM.But any way,there was a big white dude on the under card of the kliTSCHKO figHT.I think his name was nada or something can't remember.he's big & has speed & power.he knocked the dude out in the second.i'd like to see more of him. iv said defore that its gonna take a big fast strong dude to beat these guys


that was a joke d843...
Lil-lightsout
Say what you want about Tua's chances, but the bottom line is he has the best chance. Period. NO ONE in the heavyweight division can box with them and win. The ONLY way to beat them is with pressure and stay close and throw bombs and atleast try to win. You are not going to win fighting a boxing match with them. Tua has the chin,which Haye does have, and Tua IS the biggest puncher in this division. Sure he would have to stay on Klits and a ref that would not allow holding all night too. I am just saying on paper Tua to me looks like the best bet. Haye with his performance against Valuev was pretty bad, after that he would have to jump on Klits really early and hope to land a bomb.

Well atleast I didn't pick Chamber's by 10 round TKO upset. laugh.gif
D-MARV
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Mar 21 2010, 02:06 PM) *
Say what you want about Tua's chances, but the bottom line is he has the best chance. Period. NO ONE in the heavyweight division can box with them and win. The ONLY way to beat them is with pressure and stay close and throw bombs and atleast try to win. You are not going to win fighting a boxing match with them. Tua has the chin,which Haye does have, and Tua IS the biggest puncher in this division. Sure he would have to stay on Klits and a ref that would not allow holding all night too. I am just saying on paper Tua to me looks like the best bet. Haye with his performance against Valuev was pretty bad, after that he would have to jump on Klits really early and hope to land a bomb.

Well atleast I didn't pick Chamber's by 10 round TKO upset. laugh.gif

LMAO... I really don't know if you're being seriuos! I hope Not!

If you couldn't pick up on my "Patriotic dreams and hope" with that statement then I don't know what to tell you. I never gave Chambers a legit shot but I certainly didn't expect him to get KO'd like that either. You giving Tua a chance at either Klitschko is flat out HORRIBLE (Almost as bad as you saying that the Klits are afraid of Toney, LMAO). Tua wouldn't beat Rahman at this point.
Maxy
QUOTE (pcraw @ Mar 21 2010, 11:05 AM) *
I think a lot of you guys are forgetting Haye has no chin for one, two he talked all of that shit and fought very timid against Valuev and three if the rumors I hear are true of BJ Flores giving him all he can handle in camp then...well let's just say good luck with that. This won't be popular, but I say the only 2 old school heavyweights left and that's Tua and Toney. If you give Tua a shot why not Toney? They are the same height. Toney has better defense and Tua has more pop.

Here is the thing, you guys are looking for someone that can match the Klischko's reach or skill level (which in my opinion is very limited). Fuck that! The person that stands a chance against the Klitscko Brothers will be a fighter that's actually a fighter. Anyone that thought Eddie Chambers was going to go over there and back up this tough talk was kidding themselves. Stop me when you've heard this before...I'm in the best shape of my life, I'm going to go over there and shock the world, they haven't seen a fighter like me...blah blah blah and then they go over there, get tagged and bitch up. These heavyweights today are just bitches with the exception of Toney and Tua. What did we learn about Solis last night? Absolutely nothing. But they will hoist him into a fight with one of the Klitschko's and it will look very similar to the Arreola fight. These guys just bitch up man.

If you watch the Wlad/Brewster fight, Lamon, after taking a beating trying to outbox and be cute just said, fuck it. He threw caution into the wind and just came out to fight. Sam Peter had some success doing the same thing to Wlad.


Regardless of how you rate Haye's chances against either Klit, I can't for the life of me understand why you would feel Tua or Toney have a better shot. Ten years ago Tua was absolutely horrible in his challenge to Lewis and yeah, granted, Lewis was then a better fighter than Wlad is now, but how can the Tua of today improve on his dire showing back when he was at his peak? Back then I expected Tua to say "fuck it" and have a right old go at Lewis but it never happened. I don't see how todays version of Tua would be any different in his approach against a fighter of similar size and stature to the Lewis he fought in 2000. Nah, I don't give Tua a hope.

Toney? Well Toney is one of my favourite fighters all time. He's a genuinely great fighter who has forgotten more about the sweet science than either of those Klits will ever know. That said, he's not far off being two foot shorter than the Klits and he's about 20Ibs overweight. Could Toney hurt Wlad? Maybe. Could he hurt Vitali? Nope. Would he be busy enough, sneaky enough to outbox either of them? Absolutely no chance. Like I said, I like Toney but I just can't see how he beats either Klit.

On a side note I used to follow Malik Scott a few years back until I realized he wasn't going to be the future...

What happened to him? I checked boxrec and he's still unbeaten against a shed load of bums tbh, but he hasn't boxed in ages. Has he retired?
pcraw
No clue on Malik Scott, but if memory serves me well I understand he was a lazy fighter with no will or desire.

Let's not forget Tua's fight with Lennox was his first big stage fight and he was never on the big stage again. It's their last chance to shine, so it's shit or get off of the pot for him and Toney. I don't think Lennox size was the problem as much as he had stage fright. If we as boxing fans preach, styles make fights then why is it we always say, size makes a difference? Don't get me wrong the Klitschko's size is a plus, but they don't fight like killers and both fight very timid to be such big men. No way Chambers should have gone 12 rounds with Wlad, but they have no killer instincts. Hell Chambers was only 209 and went 12 rounds with Wlad. What?

I think people forget Toney was 217 in his last fight. Everyone wants to call him fat, overweight or lazy, but you gotta credit his last fight and not think of his past fights when he was all of the above. Alls I'm saying is there is a reason the Klits keep telling their people not to make the Toney fight. Why? Because stylistically he could make them look very foolish. Hell when Queenpin was doing his best James Toney impersonation against the ropes against Vitali you could see Vitali getting very frustrated because he couldn't land. Now you put that same style on a fighter that damn near created it, on a fighter with balls and on a fighter who even when out of shape has come to fight and I like his chances.

Hey as far as improving I know it's a totally different weight class, but I never would have imagined the Manny Pacquiao who I watched get buzzed by Morales and Marquez would be starching De La Hoya, Cotto and blanking Clottey...I'm just saying.
thehype
Anyone who's not a BITCH will defeat the Klitschkos. The problem with the heavyweight division is that we got a lot of BITCHES who are pretending to be fighters. It's VERY easy to rule a division that's full of BITCHES. Truth be told, I think Sanders was the last non-BITCH to fight the Klitschkos, and you saw what he did to Wladimaria and he even put Vitalia in a tougher fight than anyone else not named Lennox Lewis has put him in.

James Toney may be "fat" and he may be "old" and he may be "short"...but James Toney is NOT a BITCH and I'd LOVE to see what either Klitschko could do against a guy who's not going to BITCH UP the minute they eat one clean punch.

People can talk all the smack they want to about Toney, but those motherfuckers sure as hell don't want to fight him.

I'll tell you one thing...Toney will give Wladimaria a better fight than Chambers ever did!

In fact, I'll even go out on a limb and say that Evander Holyfield gives them a tougher fight than a lot of these other BITCHES!

Say what? Evander Holyfield? Yeah...fuckin' Evander Holyfield! I mean, you know it's bad when Evander Holyfield put on a better performance against Valuev than David Haye's ass did. Shit, I won't even be shocked to see David Haye get flattened by John Ruiz.

Geesh! Bunch of BITCHES!
Maxy
QUOTE (pcraw @ Mar 21 2010, 03:28 PM) *
No clue on Malik Scott, but if memory serves me well I understand he was a lazy fighter with no will or desire.

Let's not forget Tua's fight with Lennox was his first big stage fight and he was never on the big stage again. It's their last chance to shine, so it's shit or get off of the pot for him and Toney. I don't think Lennox size was the problem as much as he had stage fright. If we as boxing fans preach, styles make fights then why is it we always say, size makes a difference? Don't get me wrong the Klitschko's size is a plus, but they don't fight like killers and both fight very timid to be such big men. No way Chambers should have gone 12 rounds with Wlad, but they have no killer instincts. Hell Chambers was only 209 and went 12 rounds with Wlad. What?

I think people forget Toney was 217 in his last fight. Everyone wants to call him fat, overweight or lazy, but you gotta credit his last fight and not think of his past fights when he was all of the above. Alls I'm saying is there is a reason the Klits keep telling their people not to make the Toney fight. Why? Because stylistically he could make them look very foolish. Hell when Queenpin was doing his best James Toney impersonation against the ropes against Vitali you could see Vitali getting very frustrated because he couldn't land. Now you put that same style on a fighter that damn near created it, on a fighter with balls and on a fighter who even when out of shape has come to fight and I like his chances.

Hey as far as improving I know it's a totally different weight class, but I never would have imagined the Manny Pacquiao who I watched get buzzed by Morales and Marquez would be starching De La Hoya, Cotto and blanking Clottey...I'm just saying.


We'll have to agree to disagree on Tua. I just can't see how a Tua of today is doing anything, even if it is the last chance saloon. I like your analysis of how Toney would go about things though. It's nice because it is exactly what I'd want him to do. I'd love for him to frustrate the fuck out of either/both Klits en route to punishing them with sneaky counters and the occasional bouts of stylish aggression. Sadly though I believe it's too big of an ask for todays James Toney to successfully beat either Klit.

But yeah, he'd give it a much better shot than any of the recent title challengers who are basically nothing short of a disgrace to the sport and to the prestigious honour of challenging for a world heavyweight title.
d843
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Mar 21 2010, 03:21 AM) *
Povektin and Haye seems to be the only two guys right now with any type of chance.

But there is one heavyweight who I truly could beat the Klits if he was in his best shape, and NO it is not Toney...































it's DAVID TUA!!! Yeah, I said it. He has a great chin and if he would stay on there chest's and throw some bombs he has the best chance of any fighter right now. I know he has been very inactive, but if he could get more active and maybe he could make some noise again?
I think tua wud make it compETITIVE 4 about 5 rounds if that!Way too short .they both would beat the living shit out him!BUT HEY,its a fight that makes sense & its 1 I hope gets made in the future
d843
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Mar 21 2010, 01:57 PM) *
LMAO... I really don't know if you're being seriuos! I hope Not!

If you couldn't pick up on my "Patriotic dreams and hope" with that statement then I don't know what to tell you. I never gave Chambers a legit shot but I certainly didn't expect him to get KO'd like that either. You giving Tua a chance at either Klitschko is flat out HORRIBLE (Almost as bad as you saying that the Klits are afraid of Toney, LMAO). Tua wouldn't beat Rahman at this point.
Wlad would beat all 3 of them in the same fucn night!THAT'S SOME FUNNY SHIT
d843
QUOTE (Maxy @ Mar 21 2010, 02:25 PM) *
Regardless of how you rate Haye's chances against either Klit, I can't for the life of me understand why you would feel Tua or Toney have a better shot. Ten years ago Tua was absolutely horrible in his challenge to Lewis and yeah, granted, Lewis was then a better fighter than Wlad is now, but how can the Tua of today improve on his dire showing back when he was at his peak? Back then I expected Tua to say "fuck it" and have a right old go at Lewis but it never happened. I don't see how todays version of Tua would be any different in his approach against a fighter of similar size and stature to the Lewis he fought in 2000. Nah, I don't give Tua a hope.

Toney? Well Toney is one of my favourite fighters all time. He's a genuinely great fighter who has forgotten more about the sweet science than either of those Klits will ever know. That said, he's not far off being two foot shorter than the Klits and he's about 20Ibs overweight. Could Toney hurt Wlad? Maybe. Could he hurt Vitali? Nope. Would he be busy enough, sneaky enough to outbox either of them? Absolutely no chance. Like I said, I like Toney but I just can't see how he beats either Klit.

On a side note I used to follow Malik Scott a few years back until I realized he wasn't going to be the future...

What happened to him? I checked boxrec and he's still unbeaten against a shed load of bums tbh, but he hasn't boxed in ages. Has he retired?
GREAT POST,I read some where that he helped chambers get ready for wlad.he's another cat that I wanted to see more of.I think goosen puts more effort into who he wants & shits on ppl like scoot & tony.Fuc goosen
streetlion1
QUOTE (thehype @ Mar 21 2010, 03:49 PM) *
Anyone who's not a BITCH will defeat the Klitschkos. The problem with the heavyweight division is that we got a lot of BITCHES who are pretending to be fighters. It's VERY easy to rule a division that's full of BITCHES. Truth be told, I think Sanders was the last non-BITCH to fight the Klitschkos, and you saw what he did to Wladimaria and he even put Vitalia in a tougher fight than anyone else not named Lennox Lewis has put him in.

James Toney may be "fat" and he may be "old" and he may be "short"...but James Toney is NOT a BITCH and I'd LOVE to see what either Klitschko could do against a guy who's not going to BITCH UP the minute they eat one clean punch.

People can talk all the smack they want to about Toney, but those motherfuckers sure as hell don't want to fight him.

I'll tell you one thing...Toney will give Wladimaria a better fight than Chambers ever did!

In fact, I'll even go out on a limb and say that Evander Holyfield gives them a tougher fight than a lot of these other BITCHES!

Say what? Evander Holyfield? Yeah...fuckin' Evander Holyfield! I mean, you know it's bad when Evander Holyfield put on a better performance against Valuev than David Haye's ass did. Shit, I won't even be shocked to see David Haye get flattened by John Ruiz.

Geesh! Bunch of BITCHES!

You said it!!! Toney has the experience and mentality to give them a better challenge than anyone they fought so far. David Haye gets KTFO and John Ruiz...gimme a break. All everyone does against the Klit sisters is come foward and eat the jab...I know for a fact James Toney isnt gonna just be dominated by 2 punches all night long!
BGv2.0
In regard to Tua....

I think it's really a pipe dream to give him anything more than a puncher's chance against either of these guys.

The man is way too inactive and even in his prime looked AWFUL when in with a guy with the same attributes during the Lewis fight.

Even though I do not see either Klit as being as fluid as Lewis was.....they have the same attributes he did in height and jab....

If Tua could not do the job in his prime....I see no reason how he would get it done today with either Klit, damn near a decade older and YEARS of inactivity under his belt.

Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ Mar 22 2010, 12:29 PM) *
In regard to Tua....

I think it's really a pipe dream to give him anything more than a puncher's chance against either of these guys.

The man is way too inactive and even in his prime looked AWFUL when in with a guy with the same attributes during the Lewis fight.

Even though I do not see either Klit as being as fluid as Lewis was.....they have the same attributes he did in height and jab....

If Tua could not do the job in his prime....I see no reason how he would get it done today with either Klit, damn near a decade older and YEARS of inactivity under his belt.


I hear ya man, but that is kind of my point,he has a punchers chance and a good chin. NO one else remotely has the tools to beat them any other way. I understand it is a long shot for him to win, but it's not like Wlad has not been hurt and down several times. I am waiting on these better type opponents to challenge them.

I thought Tua looked like the new champ in the first round or two against Lewis, but then he just stopped working. Do not forget Foreman came back at a very advanced age to win the belt, and Tua is not that old anyway, for a heavyweight at least. And Tua did fight recently and KO'd the guy, did not see the fight though.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Mar 22 2010, 11:42 AM) *
I hear ya man, but that is kind of my point,he has a punchers chance and a good chin. NO one else remotely has the tools to beat them any other way. I understand it is a long shot for him to win, but it's not like Wlad has not been hurt and down several times. I am waiting on these better type opponents to challenge them.

I thought Tua looked like the new champ in the first round or two against Lewis, but then he just stopped working. Do not forget Foreman came back at a very advanced age to win the belt, and Tua is not that old anyway, for a heavyweight at least. And Tua did fight recently and KO'd the guy, did not see the fight though.


I agree he has the potential to land a big shot...but I really question his beard in relation to the age.....because I don't care what anybody says...in his last high profile fight...the one with Rock.....his ass got dropped in that last round.

AND....you have to remember he has not taken a real HW shot in YEARS....probally since that fight.

After his reaction to that first right hand Lewis landed on him in their fight.....I just really can see it palying out the same way for him now with the Klits.

HEY...I LOVE the Tuaman! BUT...I just am not as optimistic based on inactivity.....I NEVER trust a guy...no matter how talented or powerful....when inactivity comes into the picture.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (d843 @ Mar 21 2010, 02:45 AM) *
we all can say what these guys should or shouldn't be doing to win there figHT .but like iv said earlier!WHEN U GET HIT SO HARD IN YUR FUCKN MOUTH THE PLAN GOES SOUTH.WLAD WOULD RUN CIRCLES AROUND VALUEV HE IS THE SLOWEST ACTIVE BOXER TODAY.I DON'T EVEN GIVE HIM A PIECE OF CHANCE

Plan goes south??All I'm talking about is parrying a jab..hahaha..That should be the very first thing a boxer should learn when it comes to defense..By catching a jab,it just stops the jab,when you parry it and set it off course,you can counter off it,close the distance,or atleast not let him double or triple his jab like I said..I just really can't understand how everyone they fight have no defense for a jab and if they do they just hold their hands up like Winky and just hope they don't get hit..If I were to fight a Klitchko,I would work on my parry like crazy with a 6'7 guy..I wish I knew what the guys they are fighting are working on in camp..Wlad has an amazing jab with a combo of speed and power on it and Vitali knows how to keep range with his jab better than most heavyweights I've ever seen,which is why these heavyweights have got to take the jab away..James Toney may be the only guy with the skills to take away the jab BUT that's only if James somehow gets his reflexes back and body movement back..He looks shot these days which sucks but who knows,crazier things have happened in boxing..
d843
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Mar 22 2010, 05:35 PM) *
Plan goes south??All I'm talking about is parrying a jab..hahaha..That should be the very first thing a boxer should learn when it comes to defense..By catching a jab,it just stops the jab,when you parry it and set it off course,you can counter off it,close the distance,or atleast not let him double or triple his jab like I said..I just really can't understand how everyone they fight have no defense for a jab and if they do they just hold their hands up like Winky and just hope they don't get hit..If I were to fight a Klitchko,I would work on my parry like crazy with a 6'7 guy..I wish I knew what the guys they are fighting are working on in camp..Wlad has an amazing jab with a combo of speed and power on it and Vitali knows how to keep range with his jab better than most heavyweights I've ever seen,which is why these heavyweights have got to take the jab away..James Toney may be the only guy with the skills to take away the jab BUT that's only if James somehow gets his reflexes back and body movement back..He looks shot these days which sucks but who knows,crazier things have happened in boxing..
Very well put,hopefully one of them will give him a shot in the near future
BGv2.0
QUOTE (Fitz @ Mar 22 2010, 05:22 PM) *
BG. I think you are being extremely hard on Tua about his beard in relation to getting dropped by Rahman. That to me wasn't a punch that hurt him, I think he got caught in the moment and was nothing more than a flash knockdown. I don't recall him being hurt remotely.
Agreed with everything else though. Tua doesn't stand a chance, if he didn't do anything with Lewis in his prime, he ain't doing shit all against the Klitscko's.


Well..I'm not saying he was mega hurt...not at all...but he was put on his ass....and many people claim it was not a KD...and I think they need to have their eyes checked out....because it was...without doubt.

BUT...I really question if it was not the first chinks in the armor, so to speak.

The VERY FIRST right hand Lewis put on him....he completley went into a shell....and then..here is a guy that has had a rep for a huge beard....and he gets floored by Rock....

I just really started to wonder if something was not starting to break down....I mean we all know he took a lot of punishment over the course of his career....the two Rock fights, the Ike fight, the Lewis fight even the Fres fight...

After that Rock fight....he basically fell off the face of the earth, some of it was due to legal issues....but a lot of it was just no desire to climb back into the ring....

I might be totally off the mark...I admit that...but it just seemed like there may have been some cracks starting....

I mean what else explains his reluctance to get back in there?

I mean....if you were David Tua...and you saw this HW division of the last 7 years....would you not have been jumping through hoops to get back in?

I just think that at the end of the day...he knows what's waiting at the end.....

BUT..then again..all of that could just be my personal frustration with his inactivity...I've always been a Tua fan.
jlupi
there are a few that have a long shot punchers chance w wlad. thats it. the heavys outside the klits is a wastland. People are saying chambers is the best US heavy. He came in at what 209 and fat? the guy is really a lighthvy without the disiplin to be there. And you cant even say he is chasing the money - what money? arreola is the only one even getting on tv
Lil-lightsout
Johnny Blaze???
grapevine241
outside of the lucky punch, nobody can beat them until they fall off
D-MARV
I hope they make a Haye-Wlad fight... Haye will catch Wlad!!!!
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Mar 25 2010, 08:42 PM) *
I hope they make a Haye-Wlad fight... Haye will catch Wlad!!!!


I think it was Fightnews I saw it, Tua and Friday Anuyana? are fighting soon. I saw a picture of them, do not remember details or the date. Atleast Tua is going to be fighting again soon. I would like to watch him to see what he has left.

Here are some heavyweights that got crippling power to end fights, in no particular order.

Peter- wide and slow, but heavy hands.
Wlad- His right when thrown with meaning is nasty, and his hook is much better too.
Haye- Smaller heavy, but he got great speed and power.
Tua- His left hook is arguably the hardest punch of them all.

Sure there are others.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Mar 23 2010, 02:19 PM) *
Johnny Blaze???

What's up??You likin that last post on here or somethin??hahaha..I'm still given Toney some props..
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