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D-MARV
QUOTE
According to Sports Business Daily, the Manny Pacquiao vs. Joshua Clottey HBO pay-per-view registered 700,000 pay-per-view buys with $35.3 million dollars in revenue. A crowd of nearly 51,000 boxing fans turned out to watch Pacquiao retain his WBO welterweight title by dominating Clottey for a twelve round decision at Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas.

HBO Sports President Ross Greenburg was very pleased with the number. He expected around 500,000-600,000 buys.

“We didn’t think Manny could carry the load to this degree. He’s attracting more than just the hardcore boxing fan," Greenburg.




That is great for no 24/7 and no dance partner.

Mayweather-Mosley will DESTROY that number... My guess is they come close to 2 million!
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Agreed, on one hand it is very impressive given the overall lack of interest in the fight and no 24/7, on the other hand it will given Floyd a stronger position at the negotiation table as PBF/Mosley is sure to smash this number.

In some ways it only probably makes a fight between the 2 (PBF/Pac) more unlikely given Arum is not going to move from his 50/50 shared purse stance should they decide to fight.
D-MARV
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 23 2010, 06:39 PM) *
Agreed, on one hand it is very impressive given the overall lack of interest in the fight and no 24/7, on the other hand it will given Floyd a stronger position at the negotiation table as PBF/Mosley is sure to smash this number.

In some ways it only probably makes a fight between the 2 (PBF/Pac) more unlikely given Arum is not going to move from his 50/50 shared purse stance should they decide to fight.

I think a fair measuring tool would be to compare Pacquiao-Cotto and Mayweather-Mosley... If Mayweather-Mosley crushes that number then that should tell us where they stand as far as drawing power. Cotto is a bigger star than Mosley so that actually gives Pac a slight advantage.
Snoop
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 23 2010, 10:39 PM) *
Agreed, on one hand it is very impressive given the overall lack of interest in the fight and no 24/7.

Agreed. Given the lack of promotion, that's a very impressive number.
d843
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Mar 23 2010, 05:31 PM) *
That is great for no 24/7 and no dance partner.

Mayweather-Mosley will DESTROY that number... My guess is they come close to 2 million!
Oh yes,most definitely,I say triple it!
Provo209
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Mar 23 2010, 02:44 PM) *
I think a fair measuring tool would be to compare Pacquiao-Cotto and Mayweather-Mosley... If Mayweather-Mosley crushes that number then that should tell us where they stand as far as drawing power. Cotto is a bigger star than Mosley so that actually gives Pac a slight advantage.


What did Pac,Cotto do ? I forgot . Regardless though I think Floyd ,Shane does big numbers guys at work are coming up 2 me pumped about this and I've never knew they watched boxing..LOL
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (StyleZ @ Mar 23 2010, 06:44 PM) *
I think a fair measuring tool would be to compare Pacquiao-Cotto and Mayweather-Mosley... If Mayweather-Mosley crushes that number then that should tell us where they stand as far as drawing power. Cotto is a bigger star than Mosley so that actually gives Pac a slight advantage.


I think there is more ' heat' on this one than Pac-Cotto. For one it is a GBP fight and BO are right up their ass when it comes to promoting their fights.

Secondly Mayweather has gotten a heap of free press over this drug testing fiasco with Pac and thus I think this has parlayed into his fight with Shane. This baby definately has got more legs and I wouldn't be surprised to see it push Oscar/PBF for numbers.
D-MARV
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 23 2010, 10:38 PM) *
I think there is more ' heat' on this one than Pac-Cotto. For one it is a GBP fight and BO are right up their ass when it comes to promoting their fights.

Secondly Mayweather has gotten a heap of free press over this drug testing fiasco with Pac and thus I think this has parlayed into his fight with Shane. This baby definately has got more legs and I wouldn't be surprised to see it push Oscar/PBF for numbers.

Oh I agree with you... But let's not act like Pacquiao didn't get any free press from this drug testing fiasco. My father (casual fan) wanted to see the Pac fight last week because he wanted to see how he looked physically. If Mayweather-Mosley pushes Floyd-De La Hoya for PPV numbers then Pacquiao can forget about 50-50 and rightfully so.
Mean Mister Mustard
Another factor which might help Mayweather-Molsey is the fact that the buzz that non boxing fans are getting is that Mosley is no joke and they saw him confront Mayweather after the Marquez fight, so this confidence that boxing fans have on Mosley is trickling down towards non-boxing fans, or as I call them Infidels. He he he.

Regardless I think Mayweather wins this one easy on the scorecards. He mifhgt get thumped up a bit but he should be comfortably ahead after the 10th.
thehype
HA!

I called it! 700-800K. NICE.

The POWER of THE Pacquiao strikes again!

MABUHAY BITCHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MarzB
Another factor which might help Mayweather-Molsey is the fact that the buzz that non boxing fans

That more than 24/7 will help along with the sponsors they have. That said, 700K is a GREAT number with or without a "24/7" which I think gets too much credit for promoting fights. It's a great vehicle but it would be even more effective if it wasn't relegated strictly to HBO subscribers.

The people that I know that watch "24/7s" religiously are already boxing fans.
thehype
QUOTE (Mean Mister Mustard @ Mar 23 2010, 11:00 PM) *
Another factor which might help Mayweather-Molsey is the fact that the buzz that non boxing fans are getting is that Mosley is no joke and they saw him confront Mayweather after the Marquez fight, so this confidence that boxing fans have on Mosley is trickling down towards non-boxing fans, or as I call them Infidels. He he he.

Regardless I think Mayweather wins this one easy on the scorecards. He mifhgt get thumped up a bit but he should be comfortably ahead after the 10th.


Great call MMM.

I'll take it a step further...Mayweather TKO12!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

SHANE'S GOING DOWN BITCHES!!!!!!!! WE'LL SHAKE UP THE WORLD!!!!!!!!! WE'LL SHAKE UP THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm calling it! Mosley down from a body shot. CALLING IT!!!!!! Like a PROPHET BABY!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

And if I'm wrong, worst case scenario, Mayweather by WIDE UNANIMOUS DECISION. 9 rounds to 3...or something like that. EASY WORK!!!!!

Once that head starts snappin' back from those jabs, the jerry curl juice will fly and that back is gonna stiffen up....man, if he thought he had a monkey on his back when Winky was thumpin' him, he's in for a world of trouble against Mayweather, baby!

I'M ALL IN!!!!! IN FACT, FUCK IT, I'M THE FUCKIN' CONDUCTOR OF THE MAYWEATHER EXPRESS BABY!!!!! WOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

LOL.

laugh.gif

My bad...had to stir it up a little bit.

laugh.gif
thehype
QUOTE (MarzB @ Mar 23 2010, 11:08 PM) *
Another factor which might help Mayweather-Molsey is the fact that the buzz that non boxing fans

That more than 24/7 will help along with the sponsors they have. That said, 700K is a GREAT number with or without a "24/7" which I think gets too much credit for promoting fights. It's a great vehicle but it would be even more effective if it wasn't relegated strictly to HBO subscribers.

The people that I know that watch "24/7s" religiously are already boxing fans.


Agreed about the 24/7...shit, I'M a freakin diehard boxing fan and sometimes, I even forget those damn things are coming on. LOL.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE watching them, but for some reason, I just don't think the INFIDELS are sitting around and waiting for those 24/7 shows to come on.
thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Mar 23 2010, 11:14 PM) *
Marz, I don't think people are overrating the influence of 24/7.

Guys like Tyson and DLH are more known and marketable than guys like Mayweather and Pacquiao, though why are the numbers working in there favour over something? If it's not 24/7, it has to be some other kind of promotion. I just don't think Mayweather and Pacquiao are as big as Tyson and DLH, though in recent times, numbers say otherwise.
If you believe they are more recognised than Tyson and DLH, we may have to just agree to disagree, but for me I think the 24/7 series has been a big contribution.


Oh, don't get me wrong Fitz, I also agree that they DEFINITELY help, since, at the very least, they serve as a 30-minute commercial sprinkled on HBO throughout the weeks leading up to the fight....a nice reminder to the INFIDELS that a big fight is coming up. I just don't think they help in a sense where it would take a 700,000 buy event and turn it into a 1.25 million buy event. I don't think it's helping like that. For example, even if they had a 24/7 for Pacquiao vs. Clottey, yeah, I think it would have done more buys, but only like 800,000...maybe 850,000 tops...maybe not even that. Keep in mind that they DID do a 24/7 for Pacquiao vs. Hatton, and that only generated 800,000 buys. Even if you stick a camera in Joshua Clottey's face for every episode, I just don't think he would have enticed the INFIDELS to buy it. I just don't think they would have viewed it as a BIG event because, even with 4 episodes of 24/7, they're still not going to know who the fuck Joshua Clottey is...and if they continued to show footage of some of his past fights, that might even turn off some INFIDELS. LOL. I'm just saying it's not blowing the numbers off the roof. Mayweather vs. De La Hoya likely would have generated 2 million, or at least close to it, with or without the 24/7 in my opinion. I could be wrong...maybe it would have only done 1.5 million...but still, you kinda get what I'm saying. I think. LOL. I definitely don't think they're more recognized than Tyson or DLH...HOWEVER...the fact that they both fought and beat DLH, I think that helps A LOT. I mean, I wouldn't say that Buster Douglas is more recognized than Tyson, HOWEVER, a whole LOT of motherfuckers know who Buster Douglas is because he beat Mike Tyson. Ya know?
Spyder
They had a "Face-Off" for this fight...what else do you want?
Romulus9
HBO replaying any Clottey fight before the Pacquiao-Clottey fight probably hurt sales more than a 24/7 series for the fight would have helped.

How could ANYONE have watched Clottey before hand and expected him to do anything other than exactly what he did with Pacquiao? Anyone who had seen him fight in the past, be it against Cotto or anyone, knew EXACTLY what he'd do: cover up and look to counter. When the target fires and gets out quickly, there's not much for him to counter because he just doesn't have the tools to do it quickly.

24/7 would have had a marginal impact on Pac-Clottey sales, IMO. Clottey wasn't well-known, and the more that people found out about him, the less inviting the $50 PVP became. AT BEST, it didn't help OR hurt.

People want Pacquiao-Mayweather. No question

What many, many, many people want, both boxing fans and many casual fans who rarely watch anything other than a big fight... is to see Mayweather humbled. That's what helps drive sales. Many people watch Pacqiuao for excitement, and watch Mayweather hoping he gets starched.
thehype
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Mar 23 2010, 11:36 PM) *
What many, many, many people want, both boxing fans and many casual fans who rarely watch anything other than a big fight... is to see Mayweather humbled. That's what helps drive sales. Many people watch Pacqiuao for excitement, and watch Mayweather hoping he gets starched.


Agreed. I mean, there's nothing wrong with watching for either reason, but I think some people get WAY too emotional when it comes to which side they're backing. LOL.

It's always nice to have a good villain.

laugh.gif
Provo209
QUOTE (thehype @ Mar 23 2010, 07:10 PM) *
Great call MMM.

I'll take it a step further...Mayweather TKO12!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

SHANE'S GOING DOWN BITCHES!!!!!!!! WE'LL SHAKE UP THE WORLD!!!!!!!!! WE'LL SHAKE UP THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm calling it! Mosley down from a body shot. CALLING IT!!!!!! Like a PROPHET BABY!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

And if I'm wrong, worst case scenario, Mayweather by WIDE UNANIMOUS DECISION. 9 rounds to 3...or something like that. EASY WORK!!!!!

Once that head starts snappin' back from those jabs, the jerry curl juice will fly and that back is gonna stiffen up....man, if he thought he had a monkey on his back when Winky was thumpin' him, he's in for a world of trouble against Mayweather, baby!

I'M ALL IN!!!!! IN FACT, FUCK IT, I'M THE FUCKIN' CONDUCTOR OF THE MAYWEATHER EXPRESS BABY!!!!! WOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

LOL.


Damn Hype u got me Pumped" LOL man im ready for May 1st .I see Floyd stopping Shane, late as well.ShaMes going to get his ass skooled.he's already beat mentally and I think Floyd knows that...
Lil-lightsout
Floyd stopping Shane late. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Easy work for Floyd. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Fuck...there is not enough of those damn smileys to show how ridiculous those statements are. Jhug said the same shit a bit back, then he pussed out and just wanted a straight up bet for the winner.

Mayweather is getting KTFO!!!
Romulus9
QUOTE (thehype @ Mar 23 2010, 11:47 PM) *
Agreed. I mean, there's nothing wrong with watching for either reason, but I think some people get WAY too emotional when it comes to which side they're backing. LOL.

It's always nice to have a good villain.

laugh.gif




Always.

Some hated Ali. Some loved Ali. Common ground? They all watched Ali. It has been true for years and years and will always be true. The Yankees. Notre Dame. The Celtics. Whoever. It's true in boxing, in sports, in fiction, in life. With no villains, there are no heroes. There's no good versus evil with one side missing.

Rivalry is good for business, especially in sport an, within sport, especially in boxing.

I'd love to see Mosley destroy Mayweather. I'd play the DVD on a 24-hour loop for at least a week on one TV in my house. What I want more is a great fight that lives up to the [fight]hype and leaves the SPORTS world talking for a while. That's what we need, and it's bigger than what Mayweather lovers or haters 'want'.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (thehype @ Mar 23 2010, 10:24 PM) *
Mayweather vs. De La Hoya likely would have generated 2 million, or at least close to it, with or without the 24/7 in my opinion. I could be wrong...maybe it would have only done 1.5 million...but still, you kinda get what I'm saying.


I do know what you're getting at Hype. However I think the 24/7 show had a lot to do with the DLH/PBF fight. It had never been done before and seemed pretty radical back then. Since the initial series it has become a bit more ho-hum and formulaic but back then it seemed pretty cool.

Another problem is a lot of the mainstream public bought that fight off the 24/7 series and then were pissed off when the fight stunk up the joint. Chances are Joe and Jane Public felt a little short changed come fight night after watching all that Floyd footage claiming he was gonna 'whoop' De la Hoya laugh.gif
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Romulus9 @ Mar 23 2010, 11:54 PM) *
Always.

Some hated Ali. Some loved Ali. Common ground? They all watched Ali. It has been true for years and years and will always be true. The Yankees. Notre Dame. The Celtics. Whoever. It's true in boxing, in sports, in fiction, in life. With no villains, there are no heroes. There's no good versus evil with one side missing.

Rivalry is good for business, especially in sport an, within sport, especially in boxing.

I'd love to see Mosley destroy Mayweather. I'd play the DVD on a 24-hour loop for at least a week on one TV in my house. What I want more is a great fight that lives up to the [fight]hype and leaves the SPORTS world talking for a while. That's what we need, and it's bigger than what Mayweather lovers or haters 'want'.


Please review footage of recent Floyd fights I think you'll find your answer right there.
Romulus9
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 24 2010, 01:05 AM) *
Please review footage of recent Floyd fights I think you'll find your answer right there.


As I said... what I want...


not what we're likely to get!
salvador
Does anyone know how much Clottey made?

It makes sense to me that if the fight generated $20MM plus for Arum/Pac, that throwing Clottey $3MM with the idea that he wouldn't under any circumstances win the fight would have been a very wise business move.

There really isn't any other explanation for why Clottey was so unwilling to throw punches in those final rounds - because God knows he had the energy.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (salvador @ Mar 24 2010, 08:16 AM) *
Does anyone know how much Clottey made?

It makes sense to me that if the fight generated $20MM plus for Arum/Pac, that throwing Clottey $3MM with the idea that he wouldn't under any circumstances win the fight would have been a very wise business move.

There really isn't any other explanation for why Clottey was so unwilling to throw punches in those final rounds - because God knows he had the energy.


Actually there is another explanantion. Review some of Clottey's previous fights. The guy has a talenet for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. He doesn't have the killer instinct. He lets events dominate him despite his natural ability. In other words that crucial 80% mental toughness that he needs to win the big ones he doesn't have.
JD
QUOTE (salvador @ Mar 24 2010, 09:16 AM) *
Does anyone know how much Clottey made?

It makes sense to me that if the fight generated $20MM plus for Arum/Pac, that throwing Clottey $3MM with the idea that he wouldn't under any circumstances win the fight would have been a very wise business move.

There really isn't any other explanation for why Clottey was so unwilling to throw punches in those final rounds - because God knows he had the energy.


If the guy is unwilling to throw when a fight is on the table late...why would he suddenly be willing to open up when he has lost every minute of every round?

It's not like Joshua Clottey totally changed character in one night, it was just more pronounced because the guy in front of him continued to throw punches round after round. If Clottey landed something, Pac answered with more punches.
thehype
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Mar 24 2010, 12:26 AM) *
Floyd stopping Shane late. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Easy work for Floyd. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Fuck...there is not enough of those damn smileys to show how ridiculous those statements are. Jhug said the same shit a bit back, then he pussed out and just wanted a straight up bet for the winner.

Mayweather is getting KTFO!!!


Personally, I think saying Manny Pacquiao is going to make De La Hoya quit on his stool is a MUCH MORE ridiculous statement...and yet, IT HAPPENED!

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

EASY WORK I TELL YA!!!!

Maybe you we're sippin' a little too much of that Margarito Kool-Aid or something, but honestly, PRIOR to that fight, tell me when's the last time Shane actually looked good? More importantly, tell me what it is that Shane brings to the table, other than the fact that he's going to "bring it", that leads you to believe that he has the key to beating Floyd Mayweather. I mean, even the Pactards can argue that Pacquiao brings awkward angles, non-stop combinations, fast hands and feet...and I'll give them that....maybe Pacquiao CAN catch him with something he doesn't see, but what does Mosley bring? A new tattoo? Dude couldn't even cut off the ring on a backpedaling Miguel Cotto, who was outslugging him at first before he decided to get on his bike and just outbox him when he ate a shot that he didn't like. If Miguel Freakin Cotto, who doesn't have HALF the style and boxing knowledge as Floyd, can do that, then what the heck is Mosley going to do against Money? Keep in mind the only guys Shane has looked SPECTACULAR against are guys that are lesser skilled than him, like Margarito and Fernando Vargas (and even Vargas was hanging to some degree with that blown up eye). Other than that, he's looked like an aging fighter, who still has enough left in the tank to outbox the Collazos, Estradas and Cruzs of the world. The ONLY thing that Shane has going for him, in my opinion, is Brother Naazim Richardson, but he'll have to have one hell of a game plan that Mosley absolutely, positively sticks to...but honestly, Mosley is so stubborn that he can't even do that (stick to the game plan). Even in the Margarito fight, he wasn't sticking to the game plan...Brother Naaz kept having to remind his ass to tie up Margarito on the inside, but Shane's stubborn ass kept wanting to trade and swing for the fences. LOL.

But seriously...no knock on anyone who's picking Shane Mosley to win because, really, I LOVE watching the guy fight and truly respect the fact that he "brings it" for each and every fight. HOWEVER, that being said, I would LOVE for someone to actually explain what Shane is going to bring to the table against Floyd that no one else has brought, because quite frankly, I think just about everyone that fights Money is trying to "bring it", but for some reason, that shit gets beaten out of them at some point in the fight and they all seem to shut down before they can come close to getting the job done.

So yeah...like I said...EASY WORK. Hell, if Mayorga had any kind of stamina, HE would have made it look like EASY WORK against Shane. LOL.
salvador
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 24 2010, 08:33 AM) *
Actually there is another explanantion. Review some of Clottey's previous fights. The guy has a talenet for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. He doesn't have the killer instinct. He lets events dominate him despite his natural ability. In other words that crucial 80% mental toughness that he needs to win the big ones he doesn't have.


The first thing is that I find it impossible to believe that anyone could rewatch/rescore the Clottey-Cotto fight and come away with the idea that Clottey didn't win AT LEAST 7 rounds.

Second, it is interesting to note that all 3 of his high profile losses (Baldomir loss was rediculous as he was up on all 3 scorecards) were against high profile Arum fighters (Pac, Marg, Cotto).

Third - Pac's face was pretty messed up for the number of punches Clottey threw. Clottey had to know his punches were heavier and cleaner than anything Pac had experienced before.

Fourth - unlike the Cotto or Marg fights, Clottey clearly could have gone another 3 or 4 rounds against Pac. His energy was obviously there when the bell rang.

Fifth - Clottey knew for absolutely damn sure that this would be his last big shot and his last big payday if he lost.

Finally - seriously, if anyone had told you that Clottey would be an opponent for Pac while Pac was waiting on a $25MM payday from Floyd, wouldn't you automatically question the logic/sanity of that decision on Arum's part? Doesn't it make sense to ask the question - particularly when the evidence is that Clottey played the role so perfectly?

The bottom line is that Clottey's punches were doing more damage than Pac's, Clottey knew it, Clottey had tons of energy left to mount the final attack, and HE DIDN'T EVEN TRY. I don't believe that a guy who goes from abject poverty in Ghana to the Bronx and spends every day of his life in the gym has a character problem of the magnitude required for him to just roll over when his whole life was on the line - unless he was paid off.

thehype
QUOTE (Fitz @ Mar 24 2010, 01:38 AM) *
I get what you are saying hype, and can't say you are entirely wrong, I'm just not sure what to chalk the big PPV numbers to.

I am just thinking if Tyson-Lewis was done in this day and age (not how they are right now, but how they were then), on what kind of numbers they would produce. Just those two alone I think would sell more than DLH-Mayweather, but the only thing I can chalk it up to is 24/7.
Not sure how they PPV fights in the states as well, but I read that they do rebates and discounts for PPV's when you buy beer or something? Maybe just as a whole, they promote better.
I have nothing to back up what I am saying, which is why I can accept what you are saying as well and I agree with some of it. I just can't imagine Tyson-Lewis doing less than some of those other fights today.


Actually...I don't know man...I think there's a good chance that, even with 24/7, Tyson vs. Lewis MIGHT have done less than De La Hoya vs. Mayweather. I mean, if you think about it, De La Hoya has ALWAYS been an uber draw himself...maybe not quite as big as Tyson, but nearly just as big. Tyson-Lewis nearly did 2 million itself, but I think, in large part, that was due more to the big scuffle that he and Lewis had, which generated a lot more interest in the fight. Lewis wasn't exactly a guy that American fans flocked to their TV set to watch and, at the time, the heavyweight division was slowly starting to die. Tyson himself was coming off of some so-so and weird performances against the likes of Lou Savarese, Andrew Golota and Brian Nielsen...not exactly the string of opponents that get you amped to see a "BIG" clash against Lewis, who was coming off of his own issues against Rahman. I think people buy whatever they perceive to be a "BIG" fight and I think a lot of people simply thought that De La Hoya vs. Mayweather was the "CAN'T MISS FIGHT OF THE DECADE" because that's how they billed it. Truth be told, had Tyson fought Holyfield a third time instead of Lennox Lewis, I think THAT would have probably generated more than 2 million buys WITHOUT any 24/7 series to support. Again, don't get me wrong, I'm sure it would have added an extra 100,000 or so more eyes to the event, but I just don't think it would have pushed the numbers through the roof. Like I said, if it's perceived to be a big fight, people will buy it without some mini-documentary to promote. Case in point, right now they could make Tyson vs. Holyfield 3 and it would STILL probably generate 1-1.5 million buys. Why? Because to the INFIDELS, that's a bigger heavyweight fight than say Klitscho vs. Povetkin. No 24/7 series is going to make people want to buy Klitscho vs. Povetkin more than Tyson vs. Holyfield 3.

As for the PPV of Pacquiao vs. Clottey, hey, I think you just gotta give credit to Manny Pacquiao, who actually has turned into a decent PPV draw. I do think the fact that some people...no...scratch that...A LOT of people actually thought Clottey was going to be a threat or a challenge to Pacquiao, so I think that helped with those numbers in a lot of ways. Not to mention, I think some people were even tuning in out of curiosity for the pageantry of the event taking place at Cowboys Stadium. But I give Manny his props...he's a PPV draw...just as Floyd Mayweather is a PPV draw. Neither one of them will ever be as big of a draw as Tyson or De La Hoya, but in this day and age, those are the two biggest PPV draws that are out there and I think because there IS a lack of other stars out there, people are going to tune in to watch both of those guys fight for whatever reason. Simply put, because those are the two biggest names in boxing, people are going to pay to watch them fight, so I think, no matter the opponent, those guys will continue to generate PPV numbers that exceed 500,000...NO MATTER THE OPPONENT. There's just simply no other competition. Really, if you think about it, HBO is probably much better off by NOT having those two fight each other. The longer they prolong that fight, the more money they can rake in through other fights because the minute that they do fight, whoever loses is probably going to take a serious hit depending on how the fight plays out. LOL.
salvador
QUOTE (JD @ Mar 24 2010, 08:39 AM) *
If the guy is unwilling to throw when a fight is on the table late...why would he suddenly be willing to open up when he has lost every minute of every round?

It's not like Joshua Clottey totally changed character in one night, it was just more pronounced because the guy in front of him continued to throw punches round after round. If Clottey landed something, Pac answered with more punches.


My point is that in those few rounds he had energy and he should have fought desperately. It was his only chance in a once in a lifetime opportunity - AND IT WAS A REAL CHANCE! Pac was beat up from the few punches Clottey threw.

And I would argue that when they did have exchanges, Pac threw way more punches but Clottey generally got the best of the exchanges. It was all the times when Clottey wasn't throwing that the points were being added up.
The CEO
Yep...Hype's all over this one...with him all the way...

Mosley's always had trouble with pure boxing types....and now he's about to face the best pure boxer of the last 20 years...at an advanced age and after a long layoff to boot...add the insider info we got about his back, and this shit is almost Elementary.

Mayweather will win this fight in an easier than expected fashion.
The CEO
QUOTE (salvador @ Mar 24 2010, 10:02 AM) *
The first thing is that I find it impossible to believe that anyone could rewatch/rescore the Clottey-Cotto fight and come away with the idea that Clottey didn't win AT LEAST 7 rounds.

Second, it is interesting to note that all 3 of his high profile losses (Baldomir loss was rediculous as he was up on all 3 scorecards) were against high profile Arum fighters (Pac, Marg, Cotto).

Third - Pac's face was pretty messed up for the number of punches Clottey threw. Clottey had to know his punches were heavier and cleaner than anything Pac had experienced before.

Fourth - unlike the Cotto or Marg fights, Clottey clearly could have gone another 3 or 4 rounds against Pac. His energy was obviously there when the bell rang.

Fifth - Clottey knew for absolutely damn sure that this would be his last big shot and his last big payday if he lost.

Finally - seriously, if anyone had told you that Clottey would be an opponent for Pac while Pac was waiting on a $25MM payday from Floyd, wouldn't you automatically question the logic/sanity of that decision on Arum's part? Doesn't it make sense to ask the question - particularly when the evidence is that Clottey played the role so perfectly?

The bottom line is that Clottey's punches were doing more damage than Pac's, Clottey knew it, Clottey had tons of energy left to mount the final attack, and HE DIDN'T EVEN TRY. I don't believe that a guy who goes from abject poverty in Ghana to the Bronx and spends every day of his life in the gym has a character problem of the magnitude required for him to just roll over when his whole life was on the line - unless he was paid off.


So you SEE it...good for you, Sal...

Clottey made it a POINT to throw even less than he normally does...223 punches less to be exact.
JD
QUOTE (salvador @ Mar 24 2010, 10:06 AM) *
My point is that in those few rounds he had energy and he should have fought desperately. It was his only chance in a once in a lifetime opportunity - AND IT WAS A REAL CHANCE! Pac was beat up from the few punches Clottey threw.

And I would argue that when they did have exchanges, Pac threw way more punches but Clottey generally got the best of the exchanges. It was all the times when Clottey wasn't throwing that the points were being added up.


Should have....but didn't. The guy has NEVER fought desperately...EVER...in his entire career. Why would that suddenly change in one night? Besides, while Clottey may have had energy for brief spurts, I think you are overlooking the possibility that the body shots took something out of him as well...and even if it didn't, Clottey's temperament is Clottey's temperament - you can't change that in training.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (salvador @ Mar 24 2010, 09:02 AM) *
The first thing is that I find it impossible to believe that anyone could rewatch/rescore the Clottey-Cotto fight and come away with the idea that Clottey didn't win AT LEAST 7 rounds.

Second, it is interesting to note that all 3 of his high profile losses (Baldomir loss was rediculous as he was up on all 3 scorecards) were against high profile Arum fighters (Pac, Marg, Cotto).

Third - Pac's face was pretty messed up for the number of punches Clottey threw. Clottey had to know his punches were heavier and cleaner than anything Pac had experienced before.

Fourth - unlike the Cotto or Marg fights, Clottey clearly could have gone another 3 or 4 rounds against Pac. His energy was obviously there when the bell rang.

Fifth - Clottey knew for absolutely damn sure that this would be his last big shot and his last big payday if he lost.

Finally - seriously, if anyone had told you that Clottey would be an opponent for Pac while Pac was waiting on a $25MM payday from Floyd, wouldn't you automatically question the logic/sanity of that decision on Arum's part? Doesn't it make sense to ask the question - particularly when the evidence is that Clottey played the role so perfectly?

The bottom line is that Clottey's punches were doing more damage than Pac's, Clottey knew it, Clottey had tons of energy left to mount the final attack, and HE DIDN'T EVEN TRY. I don't believe that a guy who goes from abject poverty in Ghana to the Bronx and spends every day of his life in the gym has a character problem of the magnitude required for him to just roll over when his whole life was on the line - unless he was paid off.


First. Yes Clottey won the Cotto fight IMHO but the problem is he didn't CLOSE THE SHOW. He had a chance to really press the action and he didn't go for the home run. This displays a defensive mindset. Plus in the Pac fight he was getting hit with more combos, faster shots than anything he had ever been hit with in his life. He seemed prepared to take shots to the body but he looked damned petrified to open up in case he got caught with something meaningful to the chin. Could the jab from the previous bout Cotto that put him down made him even more defensive minded?

Second. So what if they were Arum fighters? Mosley/PBF are 2 (practically) Golden Boy fighters is that fixed as well? Yeah I know you haven't used the word 'fix' yet but you sure are implying it.

Three. Yeah Pac's face didn't look so hot. Again so what? Pac had a grotesque busted eardrum against Cotto but he still won that fight too right? Maybe they were the heaviest punches Pac has taken but had Clottey ever taken that number of punches and that kind of speed? It works both ways you know.

Four. How the fuck do you know how many more rounds Clottey could've gone? What bullshit, you have no idea as to how he was feeling. If anything to me he was looking a little shopworn by the end of the fight and I thought all that body work was starting to take effect. However I am in no position to say that with any certainty.

Fifth. I'm sorry your point is? It really doesn't matter if it was Clottey's first big chance or last big chance, Clottey was being Clottey. Most fighters have a definitive fighting style that stays with them their whole career. Corrales for instance loved to stand toe to toe and brawl even though he was an excellent boxer and could win fights a lot more easily that way, but did he change? Nope, coz that's what his fighting DNA was. Same with Clottey he doesn't know how to bring the heat in the big ones and so it proved again.

THIS is why Arum chose him to figt Pac and also possibly Arum's believes that Pac is that damn good. Same with Floyd, I would put Floyd in with Clottey and consider it no big risk. These 2 guys are head and shoulders above the rest right now and putting them in with the Clottey's of the world is no great task.

Besides who says Arum is lining up Floyd? I have the very strong suspicion that Margarito will be Manny's next opponent.

Yeay yeah cry me a freaking river, Clottey came from poverty and lived in the Bronx. Well Manny's dad ate his dog. Now that's doing it tough laugh.gif

MarzB
QUOTE (Fitz @ Mar 23 2010, 10:14 PM) *
Marz, I don't think people are overrating the influence of 24/7.

Guys like Tyson and DLH are more known and marketable than guys like Mayweather and Pacquiao, though why are the numbers working in there favour over something? If it's not 24/7, it has to be some other kind of promotion. I just don't think Mayweather and Pacquiao are as big as Tyson and DLH, though in recent times, numbers say otherwise.
If you believe they are more recognised than Tyson and DLH, we may have to just agree to disagree,
but for me I think the 24/7 series has been a big contribution.


That NEVER came out of my mouth for the record. The reason why I think 24/7's aren't totally part of the conversation is look at JONES vs. Calazaghe..

Respectable PPV numbers are anything +300K, that fight did 190,000. Thats not just terrible but flat out AWFUL.

Now regarding Floyd's appeal/dislike whatever you want to call it. It's scoffed at and dimenished here but YOU CAN NOT discount Floyd making appearances on "Dancing with the Stars" (20 million people watch that show continually. I said that then when he was getting dissed here for it when people called it "gay". Ok, dancing with attractive women is gay, got it,lol).

When you combine his WWE exposure (and thats really the key word) it definitely turns into a, "who is this guy (for those that don't know). Let me find out about him".

Tyson and DLH are extremely unique cases. These guys are (IMO) the LAST beneficiaries of boxing as a mainstream sport. Dela Hoya was highly profiled during his Olympic tenure here and he had the right "look" of sorts. We all know Tyson's story no need to repeat it.

When you see boxers coming up through the ranks on FREE tv and combined with exposure, the public gets to know them better. Boxing is one of the few sports where unless you're a fan, you can't really delve into "HOW" they came up. Where as other sports have "college", "high school" or AAU.

Anyways, back to the original discussion on 24/7 and its effect on PPV buys, again I'm still iffy. All the fights that have been feature (sad I can rattle this) May vs. DLH, May vs. Hat, DLH vs. Pac, Pac vs. Cotto, Pac vs. Hat, May vs. Marquez were going to watched in abundance anyways. Even if I worked for HBO I would have still done a 24/7 for Cal vs. Jones (can't get them right all the time). But my MAIN gist is that HBO could pull from a LARGER pool if they distributed this to say an ESPN.
salvador
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 24 2010, 03:57 PM) *
First. Yes Clottey won the Cotto fight IMHO but the problem is he didn't CLOSE THE SHOW. He had a chance to really press the action and he didn't go for the home run. This displays a defensive mindset. Plus in the Pac fight he was getting hit with more combos, faster shots than anything he had ever been hit with in his life. He seemed prepared to take shots to the body but he looked damned petrified to open up in case he got caught with something meaningful to the chin. Could the jab from the previous bout Cotto that put him down made him even more defensive minded?

Second. So what if they were Arum fighters? Mosley/PBF are 2 (practically) Golden Boy fighters is that fixed as well? Yeah I know you haven't used the word 'fix' yet but you sure are implying it.

Three. Yeah Pac's face didn't look so hot. Again so what? Pac had a grotesque busted eardrum against Cotto but he still won that fight too right? Maybe they were the heaviest punches Pac has taken but had Clottey ever taken that number of punches and that kind of speed? It works both ways you know.

Four. How the fuck do you know how many more rounds Clottey could've gone? What bullshit, you have no idea as to how he was feeling. If anything to me he was looking a little shopworn by the end of the fight and I thought all that body work was starting to take effect. However I am in no position to say that with any certainty.

Fifth. I'm sorry your point is? It really doesn't matter if it was Clottey's first big chance or last big chance, Clottey was being Clottey. Most fighters have a definitive fighting style that stays with them their whole career. Corrales for instance loved to stand toe to toe and brawl even though he was an excellent boxer and could win fights a lot more easily that way, but did he change? Nope, coz that's what his fighting DNA was. Same with Clottey he doesn't know how to bring the heat in the big ones and so it proved again.

THIS is why Arum chose him to figt Pac and also possibly Arum's believes that Pac is that damn good. Same with Floyd, I would put Floyd in with Clottey and consider it no big risk. These 2 guys are head and shoulders above the rest right now and putting them in with the Clottey's of the world is no great task.

Besides who says Arum is lining up Floyd? I have the very strong suspicion that Margarito will be Manny's next opponent.

Yeay yeah cry me a freaking river, Clottey came from poverty and lived in the Bronx. Well Manny's dad ate his dog. Now that's doing it tough laugh.gif


Clottey looked exhausted at the end of the Cotto fight whereas he CLEARLY had more rounds in him at the end of the Pac fight. That's obvious to me.

As far as the term "fix", I think it's a legitimate question given the way he fought. Every hockey team (at least according to the movie "Slapshot") has a player designated to rough the other team's star up - that's his role on the team. Clottey's role for Arum has been (intentionally or not) to make Arum's stars look great. Clottey's a top level guy who was able to walk through Corrales and Judah (if not walk through Judah, at least jog through him) and yet he loses megafights to Arum stars. Even if Clottey had won those fights with the Arum fighters, he'd still never be a star, so from the perspective of Team Arum Clottey's best role would be as star maker - or at least to play the part of guy who loses fights so megafights can happen in future. I have absolutely no proof, but if it Quacks like a Duck, then...

Like I said, look at the footage at the end of the Cotto fight then at the end of the Pac fight. There's no comparison.

For someone in Clottey's position to fight the way he did at the end of that fight (there was a break in the action with about a minute to go and he walked away to make about 10 seconds drop off the clock rather than at least TRYING to win) makes very little sense when Clottey knew he was hurting Pac when he did throw. But who knows, maybe he's just a quitter.

And for those reasons, I'd love to know what he got paid. Did he get paid $500K to have a roll of the dice or did he get paid $2MM with a wink and a nod? It's a fair question that could shed some light on the matter.
caneman
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Mar 24 2010, 12:26 AM) *
Floyd stopping Shane late. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Easy work for Floyd. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Fuck...there is not enough of those damn smileys to show how ridiculous those statements are. Jhug said the same shit a bit back, then he pussed out and just wanted a straight up bet for the winner.

Mayweather is getting KTFO!!!



Agreed on Mosley getting KOed & I pray PBF gets KTFO COLD!!!!
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (salvador @ Mar 24 2010, 05:29 PM) *
Clottey looked exhausted at the end of the Cotto fight whereas he CLEARLY had more rounds in him at the end of the Pac fight. That's obvious to me.

As far as the term "fix", I think it's a legitimate question given the way he fought. Every hockey team (at least according to the movie "Slapshot") has a player designated to rough the other team's star up - that's his role on the team. Clottey's role for Arum has been (intentionally or not) to make Arum's stars look great. Clottey's a top level guy who was able to walk through Corrales and Judah (if not walk through Judah, at least jog through him) and yet he loses megafights to Arum stars. Even if Clottey had won those fights with the Arum fighters, he'd still never be a star, so from the perspective of Team Arum Clottey's best role would be as star maker - or at least to play the part of guy who loses fights so megafights can happen in future. I have absolutely no proof, but if it Quacks like a Duck, then...

Like I said, look at the footage at the end of the Cotto fight then at the end of the Pac fight. There's no comparison.

For someone in Clottey's position to fight the way he did at the end of that fight (there was a break in the action with about a minute to go and he walked away to make about 10 seconds drop off the clock rather than at least TRYING to win) makes very little sense when Clottey knew he was hurting Pac when he did throw. But who knows, maybe he's just a quitter.

And for those reasons, I'd love to know what he got paid. Did he get paid $500K to have a roll of the dice or did he get paid $2MM with a wink and a nod? It's a fair question that could shed some light on the matter.


Clottey is not the first guy I've seen who was happy just to 'go the distance' with the champ.

Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker during Tyson's reign pop in to mind as guys who were happy to go the 12 rather than swing and win. I don't think these fights were fixed. In fact if you were to sit down and go through it there are probably hundreds of examples of guys who have taken this approach during title fights.

I'm not disputing that Clottey was chosen for a reason. That reason being that he is simply not good enough to beat Pac. But as for actually fixing a fight no I think that's reaching somewhat.

And please don't bring up Corrales as an example of one of his good wins. Diego was a dead man walking by that stage, fighting in a weight class he had no business being in. That's a really bad example of a quality Clottey win.

Lil-lightsout
[quote name='Fitz' date='Mar 24 2010, 05:05 PM' post='477896']
Of course there is. Smiley's for everyone.






Thank-you. That is more like it.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (caneman @ Mar 24 2010, 09:54 PM) *
Agreed on Mosley getting KOed & I pray PBF gets KTFO COLD!!!!


That would undoubtably be the greatest thing I could ever see in a fight I have always wanted to see.
JLUVBABY
theres a rumor in the youtube boxing circle and not sure i believe it based on the turnout for the fight alone but a rumor saying the 700,000 ppv buys for this fight is fluff and the number is closer to 450,000... i dont co-sign just sharing a rumor thats floating around on youtube...
salvador
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Mar 25 2010, 12:52 AM) *
Clottey is not the first guy I've seen who was happy just to 'go the distance' with the champ.

Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker during Tyson's reign pop in to mind as guys who were happy to go the 12 rather than swing and win. I don't think these fights were fixed. In fact if you were to sit down and go through it there are probably hundreds of examples of guys who have taken this approach during title fights.

I'm not disputing that Clottey was chosen for a reason. That reason being that he is simply not good enough to beat Pac. But as for actually fixing a fight no I think that's reaching somewhat.

And please don't bring up Corrales as an example of one of his good wins. Diego was a dead man walking by that stage, fighting in a weight class he had no business being in. That's a really bad example of a quality Clottey win.


Corrales and Judah were both mentioned because they were both smaller guys like Pac, and Clottey was far more offensive minded in those fights - and I won't apologize for the comparison. Clottey was much bigger than Pac and, as was the case with Judah and Corrales, Clottey's punches made a big impact and Clottey knew it.

My point from the beginning is that I'd really like to know how much Clottey was paid. I remember it being a big deal for Marg that Arum was going to pay him $1.2MM for the Cotto fight (his first $1MM+ paycheck) and he took more for fighting Williams. Given that Arum and Pac probably made north of $20MM from the fight, it would be interesting to know if, after Clottey had lost to Cotto and Marg, he was being paid like he would have been paid if he'd been managed by a promoter other than Arum (in which case there's very little chance he would have made north of a million because the risk would have been so great and the opportunity to fight on such a big stage and revive his career would have been implicit in the offer) or if he got paid $2MM+ as if he was part of the Arum family of fighters.
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