He just fucking slipped and his hands were on the canvas trying to balance himself. Watch the clip again before making stupid remarks like that. Why don't you put the blame where it truly belongs instead of making excuses for AA?

Agree totally,

Sautherland is more of a POS than King and Arum COMBIINED!!! If this fight had been in Germany like I said, they would have counted Direll out or taken five minutes to come up with some rule that protects Abraham.

Jack

I'm guessing they would have ruled it an unintentional foul and given Dirrell five minutes to recover or he loses by TKO.

This is the European flag. It is the symbol not only of the European Union but also of Europe's unity and identity in a wider sense. The circle of gold stars represents solidarity and harmony between the peoples of Europe.

The number of stars has nothing to do with the number of Member States. There are twelve stars because the number twelve is traditionally the symbol of perfection, completeness and unity. The flag therefore remains unchanged regardless of EU enlargements.

lloyd and Maxy, you guys need to show more harmony with your solidarity...

I guess I still think he put on a bit of an acting job. I'm not saying the shot didn't stun him, but there's no way he was that out of it that he was twitching on the mat. He gets hit, his eyes aren't gone, then HE SQUINTS. He squints and then goes down to the mat twitching. I've never seen a KO, and I mean legit KTFO KO, where a guy squints before he goes down. Dirrell was obviously stunned by the shot though, and who knows if he recovers even after five minutes. I do think Lawrence Cole made the right call though. I don't think anybody is aruging whether it should be a DQ or not, so the discussion is kind of irrelevant in a way. Dirrell was obviously down, and Abraham wacked him. It's up to the ref whether to DQ him or not, and he made his call. However, I just don't think Dirrell was as out of it as he seemed.

Also, Dirrell didn't own Abraham. He outworked him for 9 rounds, and he did very well. He boxed a lot better than he did against Froch, and I'll give him that. However, he was dropped in the 10th and was fading fast. He doesn't see the end of that 12th round. He was slipping around the ring, and starting to get tagged. He was getting stuck on those ropes, and Abraham finally started to go to work. It's a shame Abraham is dumb, cause it would have been a great finish.

yea,its all good.ya lose some ya win some

But if all that is true, what would Direll gain by "acting" in the post-fight interview? His conversation did not even make sense to athletic commission members. Fighters can still fake or exaggerate their injuries, which I DON'T think happened here. But it would be pretty difficult to fake a mental state. Especially after the fight is over and you the victim of an injury are given the DQ victory. Direll's mental state was very bad. Pretty difficult to make all that stuff up on the fly. What else are those involved supposed to do? The safety of the fighter has to be top priority, and IF let's say the officials thought he was faking and Direll had later become comatose or died from "fake?" injuries, that can have very negative implications.

Jack

When I was watching the fight live I initially thought Dirrell was faking. That delayed reaction threw me. But after seeing him twitch on the canvas and the way he was completely confused afterward I definitely think the impact of that shot was real. I have no idea whether Abraham knew what he was doing when he threw the punch or if he just got caught up in the heat of the action. And unless he one day comes out and admits that it was intentional, none of us will ever know. He obviously knew that he was behind in the fight, and he was desperately gunning for the KO, throwing caution to the wind.

I will say that if it WAS intentional, it was incredibly stupid, because Dirrell was done from an offensive standpoint in that fight. Abraham was coming on big time and had Andre in full retreat. Those last 5 minutes were going to get VERY interesting, and IMO Abraham had a good chance of scoring the dramatic come from behind KO. My feeling is that Dirrell would have done enough to survive and pull out the decision. Not to pile on the guy after what he suffered last night but he very likely would have fallen to the canvas repeatedly the last two rounds to avoid getting KO'd for real. That's how I see it.

Like others have said, the ref did a terrible job all night long, missing knockdowns from both guys, breaking the action awkwardly, and of course being out of position for the fight ending shot. That idiot doctor who worked on Abraham's cut for a full minute had his head up his ass too.


I agree. You can't read into what a guy says in the heat of the moment. This is a brutal sport and the men who do it for a living are warriors. Abraham's doesn't want to admit 5 minutes after it's over that his loss was legit. Obviously he wants to believe he should still be undefeated. IMO saying Dirrell is a good actor in that moment doesn't reflect badly on him at all.


So do I. I also am really looking forward to Ward-Dirrell too. There might not be a ton of action in that one, but it's going to be fun watching those two test their skills against one another. Round 3 looks to be the best of the tournament.

I happen to really like the super six, regardless of whether any of these guys are top P4Pers.

Absolutely owned? Really?

Dirrell was in danger of getting ko'd. How the hell is that absolutely owned?

Danger of getting KO'd? What does that even mean?

I am with you. This is not World War III. Personally each guy in this tournament has something about him that you can like. Froch has a certain edge to him that you can like. Green has the best personality of the Americans. Ward is very old school, respectable and humble. Dirrell's backstory is appealing. King Arthur speaks of wanting to be a star in America and has a dog named after Tyson.

GREAT GREAT GREAT POST

Dude save the cursing. No need to try and come at my like you are going to whip me or something. I watched the fight several times over. Of course we can see it from our view point. I have no idea how Arthur saw it from his view point. I am not making excuses for anyone. I know that you are suppose to protect yourself at all times. Period! Save the wolf tickets and calm down. My comments have been rational unlike you trying to insult me. If you don't like my remarks. I am cool with anyone disagreeing with me but I am not going to say that anyone has made a stupid remark. I am going to state my case with respect and agree that we disagree.

Everyone's opinion is valid as far as I am concerned. Everyone on this board has a opinion and I love to read what others have to say even if I don't agree with it. There are points that Jack 1000 made that I didn't think of at the time. It's all good though. I am not here to have a flame war - I did that back in the old days. I would rather trade thoughts and opinions and have fun on this board.

Next.

Do you have command of the English language sir?

Dirrell was hurt in the 10 round and was on his horse to avoid receiving any more punishment the rest of the fight.

Do you disagree?

No, I don't disagree. ANY fighter is in danger of being KO'd...

The statement doesn't even make sense.

yeah, in the post fight interview he seemed to think he lost and "got dropped" until someone said something and then he corrected himself saying he got hit when he was down. for it to be a dq, all he had to do was "pretend" to be out for 10 seconds and then it's called. he wouldn't need to "pretend" anymore. but he seemed to be genuinely freaked out and disoriented. to me, it looked like he just completely didn't expect the punch or see it at all and it took a second for him to realize what happened. it wasn't the normal reaction, but people respond differently to punches sometimes, and that didn't look like a soft punch. if he was faking, that was some seriously unnecessary over-acting.

Well damn this fight has the boards moving, I like this.....

We may disagree on what happened with the outcome but I think we can all agree the real winner last night was Showtime. Not only was it a better fight but no dickriding from the announce team.

Any time I see a fighter blinking and squinting and/or genuinely confused and disoriented at a point where one would normally be regaining their lucidity, I'm very concerned.

Think of Gerald McClellan.

Think of Randie Carver.

Last night when Dirrell was that confused MINUTES after the incident, plus the twitching on the ground, the eyes, everything... I was very concerned. Just glad that he appears to be okay.

Faking? Hardly. He's not that good of an actor. The best actor that boxing has ever produced is Tex Cobb and that's saying something.

Good points. I watched the fight again and its hard to say what would have happened if it would have been allowed to continue. This is a brutal sport and its filled with passionate and emotions are running high. And I agree with you that Abraham doesn't want to admit that he lost. He even said that he knew that Dirrell was winning by points.

Ward-Dirrell will be interesting. Abrham-Froch has action written all over it. I am looking forward to Green-Ward. It could be exciting or boring and that all depends on Green because it appears that Ward is the goods.

Imagine if Green knocks out Ward. That would really change the whole landscape of the Super-Six.

They need to have better refs and a much more experience ringside doctor whose more experience in dealing with the aspect of boxing.

You know what. That is something that has been clearly overlooked. The Showtime announcement team was on point. Unlike the HBO version who seem to have a agenda. Not saying they do but they are far from objective when they call a fight. Traver is very good. Al Bernstein is excellent.

Thanks brother. I do what I can.

I completely agree.

I think that in their last fights, both fighters have really stepped up their games. It's highly unusual to see such progress in a single fight in any fighter's career, but in both cases here the improvement has been highly noteworthy. Both fighters are highly technical boxers who have stepped up their offenses/risk taking as they have stepped up in class of competition for this tourney. And now, after both coming off the biggest wins of their careers, they're going to put on a great show.

Alright, we don't need to get into super conspiarcies about this, but it's interesting. Lets throw this out there....If he was 100% coherant in that interview, and didn't seem visibly bothored by anything in that interview, it fuels the fire. If he was fine in that interview, Jim Grey would have just grilled the dude with every question. Maybe he didn't want to deal with that at the second. Also, he may have thought that if he fakes being out and twitching, Lawrence Cole is influenced to DQ Abraham at a point he is in control of the fight. That, and the fact he squinted after getting hit leads me to believe that he acted just a bit.

However, with all that said, it was the right call. You don't jeapordize the safety of a fighter no matter what. We've seen tragedies happen, and you don't play a game of chance with that. Even when Bonsante played possum, and pretended like he was out, they stopped the fight. I still think he acted a bit to get that DQ at a time he lost control of the fight. However, it was still the right call and still a stupid move for Abraham to hit him while down. That can't be argued.

i don't know, i think hagler is pretty good.

Direll was no more endanger of being knocked out than Abraham was being countered. Talk about selective observation. Abraham was pressuring more because he was desperate and behind. THAT DOES NOT MEAN Direll was endanger of being knocked out. Show me one flurry in the entire fight KEITH where Direll absorbed punches and was nearly OUT since he was "endanger of being knocked out??"

Direll went on his bike later and Abraham was pursuing swinging for the fences. That does NOT mean Direll was getting knocked out. Whether or not you think the fight was close (not hardly) the bottom line Abraham was definitely behind. He knew it, Uli Vegner (sp?) knew it and all those Armenians knew it. Just because you're the predator doesn't mean you're the one eating all the food.

I said earlier that Abraham's knockdown of Direll was legit. But so was Direll's when he hit Abraham with a nice counter hook. I'm still wondering why Showtime didn't show a replay of that.

I saw Abraham coming foward recklessly and swinging for the fences. Dirrell cruised a bit late in the fight but he landed some good counters.

Dirrell would have easily won a UD if the DQ hadn't occurred. Abraham was throwing some of the widest, most telegraphed shot I've seen in a while.

Here are the general rules that are the guidelines for a ref for fouls:

1.) It is illegal to hit a fighter when he is down.

2.) If the ref determines the hit to be intentional and not in the heat of the moment, which can sometimes happen after a lot of punches, these are the options:

a. On an intentional foul the ref can deduct up to two points for misconduct. He may also DQ the offending fighter immediately. It is his call.

b. If the recipient of the intentional foul cannot continue the fight because of injury the offending boxer should be disqualified.

c. A ref may also consider a DQ after repeated warnings or point deductions for illegal activity.

For an unintentional or accidental foul:

a. The ref may choose to give a fighter up to five minutes to recover from the foul. If the fighter cannot continue due to an accidental foul after the five minute rest, he loses by what is called abandonment. Some commissions will go to the scorecards to determine who is the technical decision winner after four completed rounds. Before four rounds are completed, it is considered a no decision or technical draw depending on the rules of the commission.

b. On unintentional head-butts that produce a cut, unless the local commission overrides the rule in WBC title fights, the ref is supposed to take one point off of the uninjured fighter who caused the cut to neutralize the disadvantage to the fighter who was cut from the headbutt. I always hated this rule because it penalizes a fighter for being lucky that he wasn't cut. This rule does not apply in the USA or England. Other commissions have nullified it too, but I don't know which ones.

The same way that the local commission makes the call whether or not to apply 4th and 8th round Open Scoring in WBC sanctioned fights. Japan for some ungodly reason is one of the few world commissions who still use the WBC Open Scoring rule.

Jack

I see there is several delusional people posting.What the hell?Dirrel was going to get finished!He was a sitting duck

Great post! And I just had a discussion pointing out that if the ref had said, "You're faking" and if Direll had died or even lapsed into a coma, the officials could be held criminally responsible with the potential from a contributory negligence lawsuit. The safety of the fighter, especially in this day and age, has to be a top priority. And let's keep in mind that it was Abraham who started all of this by throwing a blatantly illegal punch. The rules say you can't hit a guy when he's down.

And than I asked, "OK, if you are the ref What do you do in Direll's situation like this?" The consequences and implications of Abraham throwing an illegal punch are more important than whether or not Direll may have faked or exaggerated his injuries.

Jack

First off...don't take what I say personal, guys....I'm not calling you out...I'm not calling Maxy out.

I'm talkin' Boxing...frankly...how it is.


You say you haven't seen what I was talkin' about out there on the other forums, Lloyd...and if you ever do, I'd like to think you'd fess up and say it's NOT U.S. perpetuated....because that's not the case...we normally don't start it...we finish it.

There IS no rivalry....there IS no competition....the problem here is that there's a SHIT TON of Nationalistic assholes from around your way who have the audacity to say their top fighters are better than America's top fighters....while throughout modern Boxing History, it has been proven over and over and over and over again that fighters from across the ocean are generally and genuinely not in American fighters' league.

and regardless of there being any of those types here or not, equalizer, just doesn't matter...this Garbage Fanism EXISTS...they are reading this board...and there's guys like me who remind them of where they REALLY stand...with each schooling and each victory over them by our B TEAM fighters, I am smacking them in the motherfuckin' face with Reality.

Basically...and I know this might get some backlash....with some exceptions here and there (i.e. The Klits, a couple of Asian fighters, an African or 2 maybe)....when it comes to Boxing, the ENTIRE Eastern Hemisphere is basically NOTHING compared to America, by ITSELF.

That's nothin' but The Truth.

but these garbage fans I speak of still don't get it...they never will...because they refuse to bow down....they refuse to believe that America OWNS Boxing, and their region or whatever is a tertiary Boxing nation....you see....I'm just tryin' to help set them free...that Pride is fuckin' with them....they'd feel so much better if they accepted it...they'd be better Boxing Fans if they accept it.

Like I said...this is nothing personal...it just HAS to be pointed out...because their bullshit continues out there even as I type this...

Well I guess thats fair enough. I guess im just privileged to have stumbled upon a board where the garbage fanism doesnt exist. But the U.S isnt anything special to me, its just exactly where it should be in terms of money, populus and interest in the sport. As European football teams are when it somes to soccer. I dont think its really that big of a deal and I definitely wouldnt claim that Euros are better than Americans because i couldnt qualify it.

What annoys me is the Team America stuff. A good example, I dont know if you watch golf, but the Ryder Cup traditionally has a bit of needle, and during Gulf War 1 the American team and fans were running around hollering about Desert Storm, get on board you pussies, all that shit. That sort of carry on rubs people up the wrong way. I dont think its too bad on this board, but as sure as the Euro fanboy's are out there, so are the ignorant ass American ones

Yes...we're VERY lucky that shit virtually doesn't exist amongst our regulars...but it won't last forever...they will come eventually...lol

I'm very glad you're not one of them and am privileged to know you...




Going on...there ARE guys who passionately go "USA #1!!!1" at everything unprovoked sure...these are the ones who probably picked Taylor over Abraham without a blink of the eye....they're garbage fans too.

I'm familiar with The Ryder Cup...which is funny...this tournament was billed to be just that by Sauerland and them...they were the ones who stressed the USA-Euro Angle...because they really thought they were gonna steamroll America's green talent...

It's backfired on them BIG TIME.

I wasn't aware of that. But I guess that kind of talk is a way if hyping the fight and generating buzz.

Thanks for the info Jack.

I just rewatched the fight and I think at no time was Dirrell in eminant danger of being knocked out.

Yes it should have been a KD in the 10th. I don't think there is any doubt about that. But I also feel the AD should have been awarded a KD in the 7th with that counter hook.

Also, back to the idea that he may have been faking it, when Jim Gray went to Dirrell's dressing room, there was no hooting and hollering or celebrating of any kind.

It really had a somber feel of a losing dressing room. I think this is because his camp was geniunely concerned for him.

I'm concerned for him too because here's a guy who is hard to hit, frustrates the hell out of his opponents and also is prone to falling on the canvas all the time. That means that this probably won't be the last time he gets drilled after he takes a knee.

I do hate how he has a tendency to fall on the ground. More against Froch than Abraham but still.

But I will say that I don't blame him at all for the final slip. He was backing up trying to parry the jab and slipped on the ad on the canvas. This was also in AA's corner were they were drenching his head with water in between several rounds. His foot totally went out and didn't look like one of his other balance issues.

I wasnt aware of Sauerlands angle either, which kinda goes towards proving my original point. Mick Hennessy didnt market it that way for Froch, just the Sauerland team whose fighters and fanbase are in mainland Europe. Maybe thats how they see things, but im not them, thats all i'm sayin. Im not aware of anyone on this board from mainland Europe, and if there is, there pretty quiet!!

And also CEO, cheers, im privileged to know you and everyone else on this board who have made it the first website I look at when im supposed to be working!

Co-sign on that. Sometimes I only get 2 hrs of work done in an 8hr work day because of this site.

LOL. "like you are going to whip me". Okay...whatever.

Everybody curses on this site, don't take it personal. To me it is just ridiculous how you mentioned how Dirrell should have protected himself when he was down with his hands on the canvas after slipping, there is no way he could have put his hands up in time to "protect himself".

So to me that is a "stupid remark" you made. You are the only one I recall mentioning it. I just do not see how it was possible to get his hands up that quick. So don't take offense to me thinking your remark was stupid, cause you will hear alot of that around here. Everybody disagree's and argues about stuff all the time, and I get insulted sometimes,it's just everyody got there own opinions.

Liked your "Next" line, very cool and catchy.

But to make you feel better, I retract everything I said and will put it a better way for you. I respectfully disagree with your assessment on your stance of "protect yourself at all times" in this giving situation. I feel Dirrell did not have the proper amount of time to get his hands up to protect himself as his gloves were on the canvas, when AA sucker punched him due to frustration of losing badly the first ten rounds. Though we disagree on this situation, it is okay, and we can still be civil. You are correct, I do not want a flame war either.

Just watched the fight. Dirrell was really impressive and I can give him credit where I believe he fought better. I was very critical of him against Froch and thought he was cowardly, though he was more aggressive in this fight. Very good performance by him.
Abraham on the other hand is always a slow starter and too inactive early and it cost him on this one. It always seems like he is content to give away early rounds and play catch up because he always expects to finally get them later. It pays off a lot most of the time, but it seemed costly yesterday.
He needs to show a bit more aggression early. He was doing much better later when he started to come in behind punches rather than cover up early. That's his style and has worked for him in the past, yesterday it didn't benefit him.
I also thought the refereeing was absolutely terrible. Dirrell only gets warnings from multiple low blows, he gets put down and is ruled a slip and I think it was later in the fight in about round 9. Abraham had Dirrell on the ropes and was going at him and had him in a good position. The referee pulls them apart to warn Abraham (not sure as I watched a german telecast) for what it appeared to be a warning for holding out his left hand which looked like it was used as a measuring stick. What the hell was that?
I haven't seen any thing after the fight, the post fight interviews or anything like that. I literally turned it off after it finished, but it looked like Dirrell was milking it from what I saw. He gets hit, it then looks like something registers as he is fine for a second, and then closes his eyes and drops to his side.
That's just from how the punch and the reaction looked. Not saying he did or didn't as I don't know, but that's how it looked from what I saw.

I've only seen the knockout and it seems like Dirrel was out pretty bad.


The punch caught him right on the chin when he was down. It was one of those that made the top of his head spin to the side.


I personally don't think he was play acting - he looked pretty fucked up to me. At first I thought he was, but after watching it a few more times, the punch seems to land sweet and the camera shows his breathing seems a little messed up when he's on the floor too.


Not seen much else of the fight though so can't comment, apart from the tiny bit I saw, but Dirrel seemed to a little more aggressive with his punches....he seemed to be sitting down on them more than the Froch fight.

Dirrell only gets warnings from multiple low blows, he gets put down and is ruled a slip and I think it was later in the fight in about round 9. Abraham had Dirrell on the ropes and was going at him and had him in a good position. The referee pulls them apart to warn Abraham (not sure as I watched a german telecast) for what it appeared to be a warning for holding out his left hand which looked like it was used as a measuring stick. What the hell was that?

All that is a wash and I'll use round 7 as an example which "can" be a synopsis of the fight of sorts.

At the beginning of Round 7 Direll slipped in the same corner where Cole had them wipe it. I've heard various commentators comment on this and I think it needs to be said. There are certain type of logos that maybe should be reconsidered in the boxing ring.

The logo where Direll slipped here its circular is one that I think should be outlawed or not plastered on top of the canvas but be part of the canvas if it's absolutely needed.

Anyways in that same round 7 Abraham threw Direll down midpoint in the fight. The first sign of him being frustrated. Direll is pretty much using Abraham's forward aggression against him and at the end of the round he nails him with a left that sent him into the ropes. Clear knockdown but like I said, thats a wash because Abraham didn't get credited with his knockdown either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLYFzJ9J6lI...feature=related

Fitz, That ref was terrible but lets not act like only Abe got the short end of the stick... Dirrell wasn't credit with a clear KD when he throw a counter left hook and sent Abe flying into the ropes. Also (I forgot the round), Dirrell landed a MASSIVE counter left (best punch of the fight) and the ref immediately stepped in to get Arthur's eye checked. I thought that was straight bullshit. The low blows that Dirrell was warned for were also questionable. The ref sucked but it went both ways.

You're not allowed to measure...it's been a rule for a while. Wlad used to get called for it all the time. Could you imagine if it wasn't a rule? Guys with really long arms could just hold you away out of range like in a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

At least the one constant in all the discussion is that Lawrence Cole sucks, and should not be allowed to ref a fight between two drunks over a bar stool, let alone a professional prize fight.

The dude is an absolute abomination.

Not to mention that the doctors fixed the cut when Abraham was getting checked, or at least they stopped the bleeding momentarily.

Yes Sir!!!

I heard stories about him but this was terrible. He should never ref a meaniful fight again.