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LoneRyu
why do pacfanatics still claim this rediculous lie???
Hops
Yes. Xylocaine is not illegal in any state. And the answer to your question lies in the title of this thread.

Ellerbe doesn't even have to deny Floyd's use of Xylocaine. It makes Floyd look guilty because of that.
Byrd Man
Well HBO Boxing said that several boxers use it, INCLUDING FLOYD. I don't know where the allegation originally springs from, whether it's HBO or somewhere else.

That said I'm wondering why Ellerbe even came out and said anything about it. Who cares if it's out there. Xylocaine (from what I read) is not allowed for Boxers to use in any other state other than Nevada. Whether that's true or not, I dunno.

And besides, WADA or USADA or whoever's doing the testing, does not have Xylocaine on the banned substances list, so it's a moot point anyway.
Byrd Man
Hops
Byrdman,

I know. Floyd used/uses Xylocaine. But it's not illegal in any state.

But Ellerbe denied the accusations, IMHO, because it's really embarrassing to get caught using any form of drugs. Xylocaine couldn't even be considered medicine like paracetamol or ibuprofen or non-steroidal anti-inflammatories.

It's like Dela Hoya not agreeing to signing a waiver so that any drug-results-related issues can be exposed from NSAC.

Dela Hoya could be using PED's during those times but during those times, PED's were "legal" as there were no rules yet that he would have violated.
tymoney
QUOTE (Byrd Man @ Apr 15 2010, 01:19 AM) *
Well HBO Boxing said that several boxers use it, INCLUDING FLOYD. I don't know where the allegation originally springs from, whether it's HBO or somewhere else.

That said I'm wondering why Ellerbe even came out and said anything about it. Who cares if it's out there. Xylocaine (from what I read) is not allowed for Boxers to use in any other state other than Nevada. Whether that's true or not, I dunno.

And besides, WADA or USADA or whoever's doing the testing, does not have Xylocaine on the banned substances list, so it's a moot point anyway.


Well Naazim brought it up first saying he heard about Floyd using it.. so Ellerbe was just responding to him and denied it. But I agree, if its not on the banned substances list then its really nothing to talk about.
STEVENSKI
Floyd is a cheat. Always has been always will be.
D-MARV
Let me get this straight...

We are arguing over Floyd using a substance that's not even banned? LMAO



jlupi
this stems from the hbo vid identifying floyd in particular as using the drug to numb his hads directly before the fight which is against the rules now in all states. I dont know if it was though at the time the vid was made, even EPO was not a "banned" substance in nevada when shane took it.

this is not new. Ex from the times oonline 12/07

"At the bout organisational meeting run by NSAC on Wednesday morning, Gareth Williams, Hatton’s lawyer, asked Keith Kizer, the NSAC executive director, if lidocaine would be tested for.

“We’d all seen the stories about Mayweather’s hands and we had heard rumours that he uses lidocaine,” Williams said. “So we just wanted to make sure that they complied with the rules and that it would be tested for.”

The request did not go down well with John Hornewer, Mayweather’s attorney. Williams said: “He responded by saying: ‘Well, what about grappling?’ I quite facetiously responded: ‘I didn’t think you could test for that.’” Kizer confirmed yesterday that lidocaine is banned for use by boxers within a week of a bout. “If lidocaine is injected,” he said, “the pain receptors in the boxer may not work and he may not know if he is hurt.” He also confirmed that lidocaine would be tested for after the bout, at the Quest Diagnostics laboratory in the city."
D-MARV
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but is Lidocaine the same as Xylocaine?


Aslo the article clealy states the that Hatton's team said they heard RUMORS!!!!!.

So with that being said... WHERE does it state that Floyd was identified as using Lidocaine?
SmartyBeardo
QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Apr 15 2010, 07:25 AM) *
Floyd is a cheat. Always has been always will be.

Why, because he cheats you out of peace of mind and a happy ending to your wet dreams?

Sorry STEVENSKI, just a minor relapse to the "cute pussy" days. I'll try not to let it happen again (at least until May2).
jlupi
Lidocaine the same as Xylocaine?>>> yes both are local anesthetics

Aslo the article clealy states the that Hatton's team said they heard RUMORS!!!!!.>>> i think its pretty clear that at least at some time floyd did use the substance on his hands. Was it illegal at the time or did he take it in an improper way? does he even use it any more? dntknw.gif

"In an article written by Frank Gonzales in April 21, 2002, it is revealed that Floyd Mayweather has been using a painkiller called Xylocaine to treat the pain caused by his brittle hands, which have been injured numerous times in the past.

However, Xylocaine is proven to enhance a boxer’s performance.

It effectively numbs the boxer’s hands, making it less susceptible to pain caused by punching constantly. With the pain efficiently blocked out, Xylocaine, in effect, enables the boxer to throw more powerful shots."

from an unidentified article (Ive seen it quoted but never saw the source). Gonzales wrote only that it was identified by hbo that floyd took zylo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAIQBcpHpSs
D-MARV
QUOTE (jlupi @ Apr 15 2010, 10:49 AM) *
Lidocaine the same as Xylocaine?>>> yes both are local anesthetics

Aslo the article clealy states the that Hatton's team said they heard RUMORS!!!!!.>>> i think its pretty clear that at least at some time floyd did use the substance on his hands. Was it illegal at the time or did he take it in an improper way? does he even use it any more? dntknw.gif

"In an article written by Frank Gonzales in April 21, 2002, it is revealed that Floyd Mayweather has been using a painkiller called Xylocaine to treat the pain caused by his brittle hands, which have been injured numerous times in the past.

However, Xylocaine is proven to enhance a boxer’s performance.

It effectively numbs the boxer’s hands, making it less susceptible to pain caused by punching constantly. With the pain efficiently blocked out, Xylocaine, in effect, enables the boxer to throw more powerful shots."

from an unidentified article (Ive seen it quoted but never saw the source). Gonzales wrote only that it was identified by hbo that floyd took zylo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAIQBcpHpSs


Was Xylocaine ever described as an illegal substance in any of Floyd's fights? Has Floyd ever tested postive for any banned substances?
JD
I think the irony in Ellerbe's comment about people spreading nasty rumors is too funny.
jlupi
Was Xylocaine ever described as an illegal substance in any of Floyd's fights? Has Floyd ever tested postive for any banned substances?>>>> Just throwing info out there I thought I was pretty clear that im not judging him in any way. He has used it, i think thats clear. Some may argue its PED and in a way I guess it is but as long as he is honest about it and it is not against any rules at the time biggrin.gif .
D-MARV
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 15 2010, 11:16 AM) *
I think the irony in Ellerbe's comment about people spreading nasty rumors is too funny.

I think that's pretty funny too. Never liked Ellerbe... he's a BAMA!

The difference between Pacquiao and Mayweather though... Mayweather is ready, willing, and able to prove to the world that he's 100% clean of any illegal substances and Pacquiao is not. Whatever the reason may be is debatable.
JD
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 15 2010, 11:47 AM) *
I think that's pretty funny too. Never liked Ellerbe... he's a BAMA!

The difference between Pacquiao and Mayweather though... Mayweather is ready, willing, and able to prove to the world that he's 100% clean of any illegal substances and Pacquiao is not. Whatever the reason may be is debatable.


I think the reason is that he does not want to do anything just because Mayweather says he has to.

On Floyd's side, Ellerbe is just denying something that is untrue and it makes it more of a big deal than it really is.

Man is our favorite sport eff'd up.
D-MARV
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 15 2010, 11:49 AM) *
I think the reason is that he does not want to do anything just because Mayweather says he has to.

On Floyd's side, Ellerbe is just denying something that is untrue and it makes it more of a big deal than it really is.

Man is our favorite sport eff'd up.

Yup.

The biggest fight in world isn't happening because two females are having a penis-swinging contest. That's IRONY for you're ass.
jlupi
hate to get off topic, but I think a lot of the stuff between flyd and pac is really between flyd and arum. They never liked each other even when flyd was promoted by arum. I remember arum stating during the negotiations for the castillo rematch how dumb floyd was for not knowing that cities in southern cali and northern cali shared officials. He said something to the effect as "he doesent even know its the same state". ( arum wanted it at staples and floyd did not)
Col Reb
I think this whole Pac-Floyd thing is just an ego issue. Each wants to get his way, period. It's kind of like BHOP & Roy fighting for all those years about purse splits.
Snoop
QUOTE (jlupi @ Apr 15 2010, 02:49 PM) *
Lidocaine the same as Xylocaine?>>> yes both are local anesthetics

Aslo the article clealy states the that Hatton's team said they heard RUMORS!!!!!.>>> i think its pretty clear that at least at some time floyd did use the substance on his hands. Was it illegal at the time or did he take it in an improper way? does he even use it any more? dntknw.gif

"In an article written by Frank Gonzales in April 21, 2002, it is revealed that Floyd Mayweather has been using a painkiller called Xylocaine to treat the pain caused by his brittle hands, which have been injured numerous times in the past.

However, Xylocaine is proven to enhance a boxer’s performance.

It effectively numbs the boxer’s hands, making it less susceptible to pain caused by punching constantly. With the pain efficiently blocked out, Xylocaine, in effect, enables the boxer to throw more powerful shots."

from an unidentified article (Ive seen it quoted but never saw the source). Gonzales wrote only that it was identified by hbo that floyd took zylo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAIQBcpHpSs

I think the word "enhance" is used subjectively loose in this context. I mean it numbs your hands, it doesn't necessarily make you perform athletically better, not in the same sense of other PEDs anyway.

So...is this stuff illegal or not? Was he using it one week prior to the fight or not?
Hops
QUOTE (jlupi @ Apr 15 2010, 05:13 PM) *
Hate to get off topic, but I think a lot of the stuff between Floyd and Pac is really between Floyd and Arum.


You've got a point there. From Murad to Arum, Pac has always been gullible. Arum could have convinced Pac to capitulate. But he didn't even try. Plus, even if the blood testing agreement has been ironed out, there still was the big problem of Golden Boy insisting on Vegas while Arum insisting on Dallas Stadium. Remember Arum "accusing" GBP of "What the hell is going on... why does Schaeffer wanted to put the location of the fight on the contract.".
JD
I think that it is safe to say that if a drug or injection allows you to perform better, it is performance enhancing.

If having your hands numbed allows you to throw punches without concern...or harder...or faster...or more consistently, it has enhanced your performance.

As for what is and isn't illegal, which is all that matters, I don't really know.
Snoop
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 17 2010, 01:30 PM) *
I think that it is safe to say that if a drug or injection allows you to perform better, it is performance enhancing.

If having your hands numbed allows you to throw punches without concern...or harder...or faster...or more consistently, it has enhanced your performance.

As for what is and isn't illegal, which is all that matters, I don't really know.

I still think it could "enhance" your performance, but I'm saying things like punch output, strength, stamina, mobility - general boxing skills, are not aided by Xylocaine. In other words, you still have to legitimately develop those attributes while other PEDs aid in developing them. I put them in the overall category of "performance aid", but not to the same degree.
JD
If it enhances performance, I would define it as performance enhancing.

It could certainly improve punch output, and even how hard you punch if your hand is numbed. If you had hand issues, and were reluctant to throw, and this was a remedy for that...I am of the opinion that it clearly enhances performance.
Snoop
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 17 2010, 05:54 PM) *
If it enhances performance, I would define it as performance enhancing.

It could certainly improve punch output, and even how hard you punch if your hand is numbed. If you had hand issues, and were reluctant to throw, and this was a remedy for that...I am of the opinion that it clearly enhances performance.

Sure, but there's still different degrees of "performance enhancing." I don't think these things are simple black or white categories.

And in terms of punch output, I was referring to the muscle's punch output, but fine. Let go of that one. What about the others: strength, mobility and stamina?
JD
QUOTE (Snoop @ Apr 17 2010, 12:56 PM) *
Sure, but there's still different degrees of "performance enhancing." I don't think these things are simple black or white categories.

And in terms of punch output, I was referring to the muscle's punch output, but fine. Let go of that one. What about the others: strength, mobility and stamina?


It doesn't have anything to do with mobility and stamina...never alluded to that being the case.

I think there is a simplicity here though...does it enhance performance? Well, quite clearly, yes. So...by extension, performance enhancing. Maybe not in the traditional sense where it changes your body, but it does in fact enhance your performance.
JD
Well, I think if you need it to perform daily functions, it ceases being performance enhancing.

Floyd could live fine with out the shots...Briggs would have some real problems.

That said, I would not argue the point with someone who said that Briggs asthma meds were performance enhancing.
Snoop
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 17 2010, 06:00 PM) *
It doesn't have anything to do with mobility and stamina...never alluded to that being the case.

I think there is a simplicity here though...does it enhance performance? Well, quite clearly, yes. So...by extension, performance enhancing. Maybe not in the traditional sense where it changes your body, but it does in fact enhance your performance.

LOL. I think we agree it does enhance performance.

But my point in bringing up mobility, stamina and strength is that Xylocaine doesn't develop the physical attributes of boxing skills like other PEDs; you still have to be a legitimately good boxer to reap the benefits of the painkiller whereas traditional PEDs will make you a good boxer. That's why I think it's worth specifying varying degrees of performance enhancers.
JD
QUOTE (Snoop @ Apr 17 2010, 01:06 PM) *
LOL. I think we agree it does enhance performance.

But my point in bringing up mobility, stamina and strength is that Xylocaine doesn't develop the physical attributes of boxing skills like other PEDs; you still have to be a legitimately good boxer to reap the benefits of the painkiller whereas traditional PEDs will make you a good boxer. That's why I think it's worth specifying varying degrees of performance enhancers.


I don't think anything can make you a good boxer besides training. Other PED's can make those text book skills more effective.


Snoop
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 17 2010, 06:08 PM) *
I don't think anything can make you a good boxer besides training. Other PED's can make those text book skills more effective.

True. I didn't mean to imply that only taking PEDs will make you a better boxer, but I think bottom line is, at least for me, they aid performance more than a painkiller, which is why I hold them in a different light.
JD
QUOTE (Snoop @ Apr 17 2010, 01:13 PM) *
True. I didn't mean to imply that only taking PEDs will make you a better boxer, but I think bottom line is, at least for me, they aid performance more than a painkiller, which is why I hold them in a different light.


Its tough to say because I never took any of them, nor have I ever aspired to be a boxer.

In either case, I would not diminish the impact they could have on a fight or a fighter.
D-MARV
Anybody arguing the two or trying to compare the two are simply Pac fans or Floyd Haters or both.

The two drugs are so critically different that this shouldn't even be up for debate. Besides the one Floyd has used in the past wasn't even illegal...

If you guys want to get technical, I guess you can say water is a PED. rolleyes_anim.gif
JD
Well that is the crux of it...if it is not illegal, it doesn't matter.

But anyone who does not see how something like a hand numbing shot, that enhances your performance is a performance enhancing drug sees it differently than me I guess. I don't think this has anything to do with Pac, the commentary was on Floyd. If your opinion is that someone with hand issues taking a shot that numbs the hands and allows them to enhance their performance, yet do not define it as performance enhancing...so be it...your opinion.

From my perspective, I have not made any parallel whatsoever, because frankly...who the hell am I? It is impossible to parallel because as mentioned, I am not an aspiring fighter, nor have I taken any sort of PED.

But to simplify it...if you take something that enhances your performance, it is performance enhancing. Unfortunately I do not think water fits the bill as there is no legality issue, it does not afford you the ability to punch with impunity should you have troubles with your hand, nor does it make you bigger, faster or stronger...and, of course, it is a basic human need.
STEVENSKI
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 17 2010, 05:24 PM) *
Anybody arguing the two or trying to compare the two are simply Pac fans or Floyd Haters or both.

The two drugs are so critically different that this shouldn't even be up for debate. Besides the one Floyd has used in the past wasn't even illegal...

If you guys want to get technical, I guess you can say water is a PED. rolleyes_anim.gif



Does Xylocaine allow Floyd or any fighter to hit harder for longer without feeling pain?

Answer that & you have the answer as to if it is a PED or not.
E.C.LEGEND
its not allowed within a week of the fight right? so basically you use it so that you can properly train. so I would not say its a PED. The only way I would consider it a PED is if the effects of the shot have not worn off by fight night. Does anyone know how long the effects of the shot last?
Hops
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 17 2010, 06:24 PM) *
Anybody arguing the two or trying to compare the two are simply Pac fans or Floyd Haters or both.

The two drugs are so critically different that this shouldn't even be up for debate. Besides the one Floyd has used in the past wasn't even illegal...

If you guys want to get technical, I guess you can say water is a PED. rolleyes_anim.gif


HGH isn't classified as a PED.
Kusini
I can understand if xylocaine is legal in other sports. Boxing is different though because the hands are the instrument and if a boxer can hit without paid then his performance is enhanced.
Keith

If the Xylocaine makes Floyds hands feel like their 20 years old again....

Whats the problem with HGH or steroids making a 40 year old fighters legs feel like their 30 again.

A performance enhancement is a.... performance enhancement. It doesnt matter if it gets you back to 100% normal or puts you over 100% normal.

I dont hate Floyd for using this stuff because he isnt breaking the rules. That doesnt make it right. With a big deal being made about it now, I anticipate it being a banned substance in Vegas fairly soon. When that happens... will there be any argument then about whether it added his performance?

RyanTical
QUOTE (Keith @ Apr 22 2010, 05:41 PM) *
If the Xylocaine makes Floyds hands feel like their 20 years old again....

Whats the problem with HGH or steroids making a 40 year old fighters legs feel like their 30 again.

A performance enhancement is a.... performance enhancement. It doesnt matter if it gets you back to 100% normal or puts you over 100% normal.

I dont hate Floyd for using this stuff because he isnt breaking the rules. That doesnt make it right. With a big deal being made about it now, I anticipate it being a banned substance in Vegas fairly soon. When that happens... will there be any argument then about whether it added his performance?


Is Lidocaine even considered a steroid?
Keith
QUOTE (RyanTical @ Apr 22 2010, 09:01 PM) *
Is Lidocaine even considered a steroid?


It is not.

Why does it matter? Steroids are'nt the only substance capable of enhancing performance?
RyanTical
QUOTE (Keith @ Apr 22 2010, 06:22 PM) *
It is not.

Why does it matter? Steroids are'nt the only substance capable of enhancing performance?


Because Lidocaine is an athesthetic to numb pain, skin irritations and inflammation.

Nothing about Lidocaine enchances performance i.e. HGH/Steroids/PED's.
Keith
QUOTE (RyanTical @ Apr 22 2010, 09:25 PM) *
Because Lidocaine is an athesthetic to numb pain, skin irritations and inflammation.

Nothing about Lidocaine enchances performance i.e. HGH/Steroids/PED's.


Here we go again....

If lidocaine or Xylocaine numb the pain in your hand which then allows you to punch more/harder then how is that not a performance enhancement in the sport of boxing?
Keith
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 22 2010, 09:34 PM) *
It's banned in certain areas because it is dangerous for the guy using it, not because it is a performance enhancer. Because if people are using it for an injury, you can cause more injury that you are unaware of.
You use it on your head and start smashing your head into a wall, sure it won't hurt because you can't feel anything, but it's the injury it causes once it wears off. This is why it is banned. It's a safety measure for the guy using it, not a safety measure for the guy not using it.


Ya I get that, but what if the thing your smashing your head into isnt a wall... what if its a person?
Keith
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 22 2010, 09:44 PM) *
You will get stopped on cuts, get stopped because you are taking a beating or get an even bigger beating when you can't see, you are swelling or blood running into your eyes or lose a wide decision because they are landing scoring shots and power shots.


laugh.gif

oh man, thats some good shit. Quick thinking Fitz... you win.
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