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Fitz
What's the next scenario between all of them? It was a similar scenario with Cotto/Mosley/Margarito.

  • Martinez/Williams II now?
  • Martinez/Pavlik II now?
  • Martinez take a tune up and let Williams/Pavlik battle it out for the rematch?


I think either of those three scenarios is ok, though I think Martinez has earned himself a break, I wouldn't mind seeing Pavlik-Williams battle it out for the next shot at Martinez. Thoughts?
JD
Martinez is 35...I think he needs to get as many big fights in as he can.
Fitz
Good point.
JD
Martinez should fight Pavlik or Williams next...if he wins, try to get Floyd to fight the middleweight champ at a catchweight of 155. Let Floyd try to win a legit title at 160.

Hell...maybe just try to get the Mayweather fight period. I gotta believe offering Floyd a chance to fight for the middleweight title in a 155 pound fight would be enticing.
D-MARV
Martinez-Williams should fight about 4 times in a row. Two Gods of our era!
King Eugene
Rematch Clause...he has to fight Pavlik one more time.
darroy
martinez should fight pavlik again next. as for pwill even if he gets by cintron i'd like to see pwill make a change w/ his trainer. i like paul but he's VERY flawed and vulnerable because of his flaws. that's fun for us fight fans because the fights are entertaining but to go from being very good to great i think he should make a change in his corner to sure up those rough edges. watching pwill and the mistakes he makes reminds me a lot of a young lennox lewis. bad balance, somewhat clumsy footwork, doesn't rely on jab as much as he should, gives up height too much. that being said i nominate manny steward for the job! he took lennox and wlad k. and took them from very good to dominate by smoothing out those rough edges they had (better footwork, better more effective jab, etc.). manny i think could teach pwill to fight like a tall man and improve the flaws in his game. i believe lennox and wlad were both near 30 yrs old when they began working with manny so it's not too late! pwill made it this far but to go even further especially if he isn't fighting welter and jr middles he's bigger than he'll need some improvement
Fitz
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Apr 19 2010, 11:16 AM) *
SMartinez and PWill just switched places on my P4P list, but this fight seems far closer than the accounts I have read made it seem. I think Pavlik was ahead after 8.


I am about 95% sure I scored it like this:

1. Martinez
2. Martinez
3. Martinez
4. Martinez
5. Pavlik
6. Pavlik
7. Pavlik
8. Pavlik
9. Martinez
10. Martinez
11. Martinez
12. Martinez

So, yes at the end of the 8th, I would have had Pavlik up because of the KD. But the fight wasn't that close. Martinez whooped Pavlik, busted him up and won rounds clearly. Pavlik won rounds, but didn't whoop on Martinez. Martinez won it pretty comfortably.
I think Pavlik makes a lot more mistakes rather than not just going to the body. He makes mistakes by telegraphing punches, poor footwork, being slow and chasing guys around the ring and just being average.......oh wait. I just made a mistake, they weren't actually bad mistakes Pavlik made, just bad qualities he has.
Col Reb
I think Pavlik moves up and fights Bute. Martinez either fights PW at 160 or he gets a bigger fight with one of the cash cows at 154. I do really like the idea of fighting a guy like Floyd (or Pac, Shane) at 155 for the MW title.
D-MARV
Pavlik moving up to fight Bute is about the dumbest thing he can do. It's almost as stupid as rematching Martinez. He needs to take a tune up bout and then fight a contender at 168 then MAYBE he'll be ready for a top guy.
D-MARV
Also,

I'm hearing that Martinez will NOT fight PWill next. After PWill beats up Cintron he's going to target the Cotto-Foreman winner. Martinez will likely rematch Pavlik OR fight Margarito.
KYLE THEEE SPINKS FAN
Martinez will be rematching margarito in this next fight, assuming margarito gets past his next bout. Who knows what he has left. Pavlik will be on the shelf for awhile after those nasty cuts. I don't see him wanting to get in with another mover like Bute or Martinez either. If anything, I see him taking a tune up bout in Cleveland then fighting for a title. I still think a match with Felix Sturm would fit him well. Even if it were in Germany, I think he could stop Sturm. Martinez has many options now. He could fight Williams or Margarito. If Foreman were to beat Cotto, I doubt he jumps to fight him. That would sure open up the door to rematch Martinez.
Col Reb
While beating Margarito would be sweet, I think he should look to the Mayweather-Mosley winner next. Since he is in the special position of being a 154 pound guy with a MW title, he could get one of those guys to move up and fight for the title at 155. I'd do that right now; Margarito will be there later. Plus, Marg may be fighting Pac next.
Snoop
Margarito doesn't deserve ANY fight that generates him an income. Even though I'd love to see his ass get beat silly, I don't want to see him get paid doing it. Fuck that cheater.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 18 2010, 06:31 PM) *
Martinez should fight Pavlik or Williams next...if he wins, try to get Floyd to fight the middleweight champ at a catchweight of 155. Let Floyd try to win a legit title at 160.

Hell...maybe just try to get the Mayweather fight period. I gotta believe offering Floyd a chance to fight for the middleweight title in a 155 pound fight would be enticing.


No way Floyd will never takea fight against Martinez forget about it.

I see Williams/Pavlik as a toss up because of the styles. Martinez would always whoop Pavlik but Williams/Martinez could go either way just like the first fight.
Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 18 2010, 11:33 PM) *
Pavlik moving up to fight Bute is about the dumbest thing he can do. It's almost as stupid as rematching Martinez. He needs to take a tune up bout and then fight a contender at 168 then MAYBE he'll be ready for a top guy.


Bute would KO Pavlik or win 12-0 in rounds.
ViperSniper
Sergio Martinez has become the new man in town who has a lot of decisions to make & has a lot of options he can work on. Martinez may be the only current champion in the sport to hold major titles in 2 divisions at the same time, being the WBC 154 Super Welterweight & WBC/WBO Unified 160 Middleweight Champion.

Margarito is moving back up to 154 so he could get the rematch which I feel he would avenge this time around & we would all get to see a very massive possibility of seeing Antonio get another beating! Another option he has if he decides to move back down to 154 is to set a unification fight with the winner of Cotto-Foreman.

This may seem odd but my favoured option is if Martinez wants to keep busy & get paid why not get a win over Winky while Pavlik-Williams battle it out for the rematch? Not sure if thatís in Sergioís best interest but by doing this I think it just makes for much more potential match ups in the division thatís all.

As for Martinez fighting the guys at 147 I think itís best if they all stay away from each other for now, as they all got more than enough to clear up in their own respected divisions. At 147 you got Mosley-Mayweather-Pac that needs to be sorted, Cotto-Foreman- Martinez at 154 & Martinez-Williams-Pavlik at 160!

Things have gotten VERY interesting!
Fitz
QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Apr 19 2010, 04:58 PM) *
This may seem odd but my favoured option is if Martinez wants to keep busy & get paid why not get a win over Winky while Pavlik-Williams battle it out for the rematch? Not sure if thatís in Sergioís best interest but by doing this I think it just makes for much more potential match ups in the division thatís all.


Winky can't get anyone paid.
ViperSniper
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 19 2010, 07:14 AM) *
Winky can't get anyone paid.


LOL!

Winky is still a decent name around that division & although he has seen his best days it would still be good if Sergio was to get a win over him like I think he would. I say this because who else would give Martinez more money than Winky & would be a 'stay busy' fight? I don't think it's the worst decision IF that's infact what he wants to do is rest from the best & just keep busy which would be fair enough.

Something tells me this won't be happening though so I think from the many other options he has Sergio may end up waiting until how Cotto-Foreman unfolds. I think Sergio Martinez will base his decision to stay at Middleweight or move back down depending on weather Cotto looses against Foreman or not.

Side note: Can you imagine how much more higher Martinez could have been on the p4p list if he got the nod against Williams?
Fitz
QUOTE (ViperSniper @ Apr 19 2010, 06:03 PM) *
LOL!

Winky is still a decent name around that division & although he has seen his best days it would still be good if Sergio was to get a win over him like I think he would. I say this because who else would give Martinez more money than Winky & would be a 'stay busy' fight? I don't think it's the worst decision IF that's infact what he wants to do is rest from the best & just keep busy which would be fair enough.

Something tells me this won't be happening though so I think from the many other options he has Sergio may end up waiting until how Cotto-Foreman unfolds. I think Sergio Martinez will base his decision to stay at Middleweight or move back down depending on weather Cotto looses against Foreman or not.

Side note: Can you imagine how much more higher Martinez could have been on the p4p list if he got the nod against Williams?


A rematch with Pavlik or Williams would probably make him more money than Winky.

And yeah, he would have been much higher if he got the decision over Williams. But just imagine if he got the decision over Cintron and Williams? I think he would have definitely been in the top half of the 10 if he got those wins, now I think he is probably just knocking on the door.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Snoop @ Apr 18 2010, 11:52 PM) *
Margarito doesn't deserve ANY fight that generates him an income. Even though I'd love to see his ass get beat silly, I don't want to see him get paid doing it. Fuck that cheater.


I would settle for Margarito being shot by Edwin Valero before Valero turns the gun on himself.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
I also wonder with Martinez being so dominant against Pavlik does this impact on Hopkin's win over Pavlik. Yes Nard's win was even more impressive but it was fought at a weight that Pavlik doesn't normally fight at. Martinez beat him at his preferred weight.
Fitz
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Apr 19 2010, 07:47 PM) *
I also wonder with Martinez being so dominant against Pavlik does this impact on Hopkin's win over Pavlik. Yes Nard's win was even more impressive but it was fought at a weight that Pavlik doesn't normally fight at. Martinez beat him at his preferred weight.


But Pavlik fought Taylor at 166 and Pavlik has already said he struggles to make 160. Sounds like 160 isn't his best weight.
The CEO
The World is Martinez' oyster right now...he needs to lay back in the cut until after May 1st and then call out all the money making names around his weight....saying he will fight any of them, anywhere.

Williams needs to press for a rematch with Martinez...which is funny seeing how he got the decision in the 1st one...

Pavlik?....well...he's basically screwed...lol...he could beat some guys at 68 (like Kessler for example), but he gets schooled badly by the best boxers there...I think he could possibly have some success against Williams, but I don't think Williams wants that fight.
D-MARV
QUOTE (The CEO @ Apr 19 2010, 08:53 AM) *
The World is Martinez' oyster right now...he needs to lay back in the cut until after May 1st and then call out all the money making names around his weight....saying he will fight any of them, anywhere.

Williams needs to press for a rematch with Martinez...which is funny seeing how he got the decision in the 1st one...

Pavlik?....well...he's basically screwed...lol...he could beat some guys at 68 (like Kessler for example), but he gets schooled badly by the best boxers there...I think he could possibly have some success against Williams, but I don't think Williams wants that fight.



Nor should Williams take the fight. If Pavlik calls out PWill, PWill should tell Pavlik to go fuck himself.
HaydelHammer
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 18 2010, 07:05 PM) *
What's the next scenario between all of them? It was a similar scenario with Cotto/Mosley/Margarito.

  • Martinez/Williams II now?
  • Martinez/Pavlik II now?
  • Martinez take a tune up and let Williams/Pavlik battle it out for the rematch?


I think either of those three scenarios is ok, though I think Martinez has earned himself a break, I wouldn't mind seeing Pavlik-Williams battle it out for the next shot at Martinez. Thoughts?



Man after that fight kelly looked like he wanted to just flat out say "man I aint fighting this cat no more man!" lol

Go ahead and set up Paul vs Mart II

Paul ass just needs to make sure he don't overlook Cintron now....one of those "trap" fights all of a sudden.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 19 2010, 06:05 AM) *
But Pavlik fought Taylor at 166 and Pavlik has already said he struggles to make 160. Sounds like 160 isn't his best weight.


Then I'd say Pavlik is super duper fucked because I don't think he looked like much when he's fought past 160 pounds either.
Fitz
QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Apr 20 2010, 05:50 AM) *
Then I'd say Pavlik is super duper fucked because I don't think he looked like much when he's fought past 160 pounds either.


I don't think he looked like much at 160 ever either.

laugh.gif
PR316
I always felt Pavlik was overrated.


A big strong guy who was a good puncher but very predictable with his jab, jab, right hand combo. I knew Martinez would beat his ass.


The thing is that Pavlik apparentley is struggling to make 160 and I can't see him remaining there that long, unless he gets somebody to get control of his conditioning and blowing up in weight between fights. I think his run at the top over. Jermain Taylor is the last top fighter he'll ever beat.


Martinez has the Williams rematch and he can always go back to 154 and defend his titles there. He's a very fit guy who stays in shape in between fights and he'd have no problem making 154 again. I would like to see him get a big fight.

Hard to imagine Mayweather fighting him UNLESS the Pacquiao fight falls through again. And we all know that PBF only takes calculated risks.

But junior middleweight has some names either way that would make for some good fights.
kidbazooka1
QUOTE (HaydelHammer @ Apr 19 2010, 09:50 AM) *
Man after that fight kelly looked like he wanted to just flat out say "man I aint fighting this cat no more man!" lol

Go ahead and set up Paul vs Mart II

Paul ass just needs to make sure he don't overlook Cintron now....one of those "trap" fights all of a sudden.


yeah i highyl doubt Pavlik and his people will go for a return bout with Martinez style wise he hasa better shot at beating Williams.
RyanTical
I could see Paul Williams, given he puts on an impressive display against Kermit Cintron, rematches Sergio Martinez at 160 for all the marbles or Sergio sees no money in a Paul Williams rematch, heads to 154 and fights winner of Cotto/Foreman. Leaving Pavlik to fight Williams or Pavlik ( or Williams ) takes on Bute.

Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing Pacquiao vs Martinez at 154, given Mayweather-Pacquiao falls apart again, although I don't see that happening because both men would be ridiculed beyong belief.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Apr 20 2010, 12:54 AM) *
Too late, unfortunately.


That turned out to be a little bit freaky Beardo.
King Eugene
FINALLY!!!!!

Martinez vs. Paul Williams

Middleweight Championship

Catchweight 157 (Williams Request: BULLSHIT) but nevertheless the fight has been made.

ESPN

QUOTE
By Dan Rafael
ESPN.com
Archive

Middleweight champ Sergio Martinez and Paul Williams will meet in a rematch of one of 2009's most exciting fights on Nov. 20 at Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City, N.J., their promoters told ESPN.com on Monday.

The rematch, one of the most significant fights of the year, will be televised on HBO's "World Championship Boxing." A news conference to formally announce the bout is scheduled for Thursday in New York, months after the on-and-off negotiations began.

"It's nice to get it completed," Dan Goossen, Williams' promoter, said. "It's not a matter of whose fault it is [that the fight took so long to make], it's a matter that you have two of the most feared fighters in the world facing each other. It doesn't just get made overnight. There's a lot more to it. That's what took time."

[+] EnlargeMartinez/Williams
Ed Mulholland/FightWireImages.comPaul Williams, left, and Sergio Martinez will meet in a rematch of their welterweight bout in Atlantic City, N.J. on Dec. 5, 2009.

Said Lou DiBella, Martinez's promoter, "Martinez is not afraid of anybody and we did the deal that HBO wanted us to do. My take on the fight it's the best f------ fight the rest of the year. Period. It's the best fight for fight fans and they don't have to fork over $60 to watch it on pay-per-view."

Although their first fight was contracted at the middleweight limit of 160 pounds, the rematch, which will be for Martinez's world title, is contracted at a catch weight of 157 pounds, which is what Williams weighed for the first fight; Martinez came in at 159.

"It's at 157 because we didn't have a choice," DiBella said. "Williams wanted the catch weight. There was an issue on the weight and we gave on the weight."

The fight will take place in the Boardwalk Hall main arena, which will be configured for about 7,000.

When they met for the first time on Dec. 5 in the smaller arena upstairs at Boardwalk Hall, both fighters were knocked down in the first round of what turned out to be a rousing, slugfest and one of the most action-packed fights of the year. Williams won a heavily disputed majority decision in the nontitle bout.

The fight had taken place on short notice when Kelly Pavlik, then the middleweight champ, withdrew from a scheduled defense against Williams (39-1, 27 KOs) and was replaced by Martinez (45-2-2, 24 KOs).

In his first fight after the loss to Williams, Martinez outpointed Pavlik to win the middleweight title in April at Boardwalk Hall.

"The fight can't miss," DiBella said. "You saw the first fight but I thought my guy won the first fight and I think he'll win this one easier. I don't think you'll ever fight Paul Williams and have an easy fight, but I think this time he will win more clearly."

Martinez, a native of Argentina living in California, will be making his first title defense. Williams has also fought once since their initial meeting, winning a four-round technical decision against Kermit Cintron in a May junior middleweight bout.

One of the reasons it took so long to finalize Martinez-Williams II was because the Williams camp was not eager for the fight. Goossen and adviser Al Haymon hoped to line up a big fight for Williams at welterweight, where he used to hold a title, against an opponent such as Manny Pacquiao or Shane Mosley.

When that did not materialize, they put off making the Martinez rematch for as long as they could until they had run out of other lucrative options.

When HBO and DiBella ran out of patience waiting for the Williams side to accept the fight in mid-August, DiBella cut off talks and offered the fight -- with HBO's blessing -- to junior middleweight contender Alfredo "Perro" Angulo, a network staple in recent years. However, when Angulo turned down $750,000, a career-high purse by more than double, plus other perks, DiBella and HBO made another run at Williams and HBO worked closely with Haymon to get it done. The Williams camp's reluctance to finalize the deal forced HBO to move the fight from the intended date of Oct. 2 to Nov. 20, leaving the network with no fights in October.

DiBella said he was ready to make a deal months ago and he's been upset that Martinez was treated as a "second-class citizen" by HBO while Williams, because of his ties to Haymon, received preferential treatment.

"Sergio has just wanted to get back in the ring and wants to be treated like the middleweight champion," DiBella said. "He knows what this fight means. He knows it's the last time he will be bullied by anybody in a business sense. That won't happen again if he wins. If he can beat Paul Williams after what he did to Pavlik and the damage he and Williams did to each other in the first fight, people should give him his props and he should be considered one of the best pound-for-pound fighters in the world below Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather. Sergio can establish himself at that level if he can perform in this fight. This is the prime of his career. This fight is everything to him."

Now that the fight is made, the difficulties were brushed aside by Goossen.

"Paul is very excited about the fight, so is [trainer] George [Peterson]," Goossen said. "It's the type of fight boxing needs and wants and one that we're looking to deliver. When everything is said and done, this is the fight everyone wants. But we never made any bones about the fact that we were looking for a welterweight fight. It wasn't that we didn't want a Sergio Martinez fight. We were hoping for the big fight at 147 pounds. We didn't get it and therefore we went for the next biggest fight, and that was obviously against Sergio.

"The great thing about is it Paul will have more than three weeks to train for Martinez, which is what happened last time when Pavlik pulled out and we had to change opponents and train for a southpaw."
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 21 2010, 04:54 AM) *
Props again for bumping a months old thread, lol.

I thought the fight was on between them like a month back? Was it just official now? Good that they are fighting again. It had to be between Pavlik/Martinez/Williams. Not much else there, so glad that two of them are fighting.
Agreed on this being a bullshit move on Williams part for a catchweight. I know it doesn't matter much, because they can both fight 154 and 160, but just leave it as is. Pacquiao got called on that junk, and so should Williams. I am really getting annoyed with that new trend.



I don't agree with it either but it does make me wonder with Paul can get down to 154 now.
streetlion1
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 21 2010, 03:54 AM) *
Props again for bumping a months old thread, lol.

I thought the fight was on between them like a month back? Was it just official now? Good that they are fighting again. It had to be between Pavlik/Martinez/Williams. Not much else there, so glad that two of them are fighting.
Agreed on this being a bullshit move on Williams part for a catchweight. I know it doesn't matter much, because they can both fight 154 and 160, but just leave it as is. Pacquiao got called on that junk, and so should Williams. I am really getting annoyed with that new trend.

Not a PW fan but at least he hasnt called for catchweights in the past. Either way I think Martinez will win...I thought he won the 1st fight and he'll win this one. Williams has always had average boxing skill and made up for it with his size and workrate...finally Sergio is a guy who is a slick boxer who he cant get away with that against. The catchweight is BS though...I hate it with Pacquiao and I hate it with any fight that is for a title!!!

The Paul Williams hype train...if it wasnt done before...is finished after the rematch!
streetlion1
QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 22 2010, 12:38 AM) *
I could be wrong, but off memory, Pacquiao did it once and the first time with Cotto? First time or last time, it doesn't make it right IMO, especially when the guy you are making come in at a lower weight is the world champion himself.

I know Pacquiao has...I was talking about Paul Williams not calling for catchweights. Ur right...what is wrong is wrong...im not giving Williams a pass im just saying he isnt as bad as Pacquiao...Sorry if I wasnt clear. I know before the Cheato-Pac fight was announced they were talkin about a Pac-Cotto rematch at another catchweight which is B.S.
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