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Method
http://allhiphop.com/stories/lifestylefash...3/22167354.aspx

QUOTE
40 have tried, 40 have failed. Undefeated fighter Floyd Mayweather, Jr has been fond of that quote in recent weeks assessing his May 1 showdown with Shane Mosley. But Mosley trainer Naazim Richardson has spent the last several years specializing in destroying the mystique of feared and previously undefeated fighters like Kelly Pavlik and Antonio Margarito. In Mayweather, the man known in boxing circles as Brother Naazim recognizes his greatest challenge as a trainer, but also sees a delusional, arrogant man weeks away from a brutal reality check.

In this exclusive and thorough interview with AllHipHop.com, Naazim Richardson lays out his thoughts on everything: from Mayweather-Mosley, to Ray Robinsonís chances in todayís welterweight division, and whether Antonio Margarito should ever be allowed in the ring again.

AllHipHop.com: There been a lot of criticism regarding the Hopkins-Jones rematch, but more so at Hopkinsí antics. How would you rate both their performances?

Naazim Richardson: I wasnít in favor of the fight from the beginning, because there was nothing Bernard can do to win favor. If you kill Roy theyíre going to call you a bully, and if he goes the distance then theyíre going to start questioning your mortality in the sport. To me it was a lose-lose situation. But I also thought he has been in the sport long enough where heís entitled to clean up some personal residue, which is why I supported him in his effort.

I thought he dominated and initiated all the exchanges as I felt he would. Unfortunately he got hit in the back of the head, and in boxing when youíre hit there no one ever feels itís authentic [the reaction]. They think youíre exaggerating. The trip to the hospital was for observation, and luckily everything was negative and he was released.

AllHipHop.com: Based on how heís been carrying the weight at light-heavyweight, do you think his goal to move up to heavyweight to face David Haye is realistic?

Richardson: I feel if Bernard can hold some weight on his body, then he can outbox David Haye. But I question if he can hold the weight. Bernardís metabolism is in training he starts cutting and dropping weight immediately. And heís not even a big light-heavyweight. I force him to keep weight on him for camp to be ready for light-heavyweight. But his boxing IQ is tremendous, and he does better with punchers than any other type of style.

But in my personal opinion, and Iíve told him this, that heís done everything there is to do in the sport of boxing except lose badly. And Iíve told him leave the sport before youíve done everything in it.

AllHipHop.com: Thereís been a persistent rumor that Shane hasnít looked too good in sparring. Can you verify his progress at this point?

Richardson: Heís doing fine in camp. [Pauses] Iíve never been impressed with Shane as a sparring partner. But his [great] ability is following the path weíve worked on. Now he just has to complete the task on the night of fight.

AllHipHop.com: Was there any worry about him overtraining since he already had a full camp for the canceled Andre Berto fight, and now had to do everything over for Mayweather? Is that a real concern due to Mosleyís age?

Richardson: I know heíll be ok because heís been going in the sport for so long. Itís been 16 months since he last fought, and if people pay attention he was off for another year prior to the Margarito fight. So itís been about 3 years and this guy is only having his second fight! Heíll be fine.

AllHipHop.com: Letís run a Mayweather strategy by you. He said recently that he was going to make Mosley ďthinkĒ in there, implying a criticism of many that Shane cannot adjust in the ring as the fight develops. Is that something youíve been working on to improve with Shane as Mayweather will no doubt switch up in the fight?

Richardson: The whole thing about a fighter like Mayweather is you canít assume there would be one mode of attack anyway. My assumption that I told Shane is I predict that he hits Floyd with a right hand, and Mayweather grows wings with fangs out his mouth like a dragon. And when he turns into a dragon Iím going to tell Shane to move laterally so that the fireballs donít hit you, step on his tail, and drive shots to the body. Meaning even if he turns into a dragon weíre not going to surrender the fight. Weíll let the audience run out the dag on theater.

Iím going that deep as far as adaption for this fight in the ring.

AllHipHop.com: Another favorite Mayweather quote is that since heís undefeated, thereís no blueprint to beating him and he has no weaknesses. But watching him for his whole career as a trainer, what do you feel are his weakest points?

Richardson: The thing is this, the only being that is flawless is God Allah, and any man that feels as though they are flawless thinks they are God. And any man who thinks they are God is a pure fool. And that speaks for itself.

When I was a young man, I saw Ray Robinson lose, and I saw Muhammad Ali lose. I was like yo; that was my awakening that anyone can come up short in this game. What people fail to realize is that with Shane Mosley, Mayweather goes on and on about the blueprint, but you can have a blueprint to stop a lion and that doesnít mean you can stop one! I feel that after Shane beats him, there still wonít be a blueprint to beat Floyd, because unless youíre Shane Mosley you canít do it.

Mayweather is verbally cute. He talks so much, that people underestimate him, because normally people who talk that much canít fight that well. Iíve known him since the amateurs, and heís always talked like that. I videotaped him talking like that before the Olympics, and he went in there and lost.

Heís a tremendous fighter, but heís still a young man. Becoming educated is how you become an older man. So thereís still a lot for Floyd Mayweather to learn.

AllHipHop.com: The Olympic style drug testing is underway. Do you think this will be a major distraction for the fighters?

Richardson: Nah, it wonít be a problem. Itís more hoopla. Floyd needs as much attention as he can before a fight because he tells you heís an entertainer. Thatís why he does 24/7, because heís more entertaining there than when he fights. Youíll pay to see Floyd hit the pads before youíll pay to see him fight! Pad work with him and Roger is more exciting than the actual fight.

You never saw Mike Tyson put on fake armor or wearing crocodile trunks. Because in the center of the ring Mike Tyson was entertaining. He put guys on their backs and we got our entertainment out of him. Tysonís entertainment was cracking you upside the head and laying you out. All the extra is needed for Floyd to give people and reporters something to talk about. More questions for people to ask him and he can bark more.

AllHipHop.com: Just based on what youíve seen, do you think steroids are a big problem in boxing?

Richardson: Like most sports you see a bunch of guys around the athletes, and no one has been able to figure out why. Why you need your lawyer in the ring at fight time? But it happens. Everybody wants to be a part of the big fight.

I got reporters calling and telling me how I should fight Floyd. [chuckles] This guyís a reporter! Heís telling me heís studied Floyd for weeks and I should do this and that. You get people stopping me in the casinos about how I should fight Roy Jones. It gets ridiculous, but when youíre around that much energy youíll get vibes.

After the fight if thereís a knockout thereís always some guy in the winnerís dressing room saying ďI knew he would knock him out that round.Ē And I say well damn, we didnít need to go to camp if you knew it would be the left hook! So you get fitness trainers that want to get involved and be the ones who made the fighter stronger and faster. They get overzealous, and the next thing you know theyíre rubbing something on your ass you donít need! Everybody is looking for that edge.

You have to recognize who is in your circle. Shane has a private gym, and you [still] got rumors about his sparring. So how does that get out? So either someone is full of s**tand just saying things or someone has a cell phone and is running their mouth after camp with their opinions. I wouldnít believe anyone telling me whatís going on in Floydís camp. Fight night weíll see who has the best game plan.

AllHipHop.com: Antonio Margarito will be fighting in boxing since he canít get reinstated in the United States. Do you believe as many do that he should be banned permanently from the sport considering what happened with Luis Resto and Billy Collins in the 80s?

Richardson: You canít ask me because Iím biased. If the joker tried to hit my son with a car, even though he missed, you canít have me on that jury Ďbecause I know what Iím going to say. We have to ask what might have happened if he wouldíve gotten through with those blocks in his hands. Shane has little kids, and how would it have looked seeing him lain out or with a hole in his head? Miguel Cotto got a hole in his head. That ainít a cut, itís a hole! I thought heíd do good in the Pacquiao fight, but I picked Pacquiao because of that hole in Cottoís head.

AllHipHop.com: Youíre also training cruiserweight Steve Cunningham. His scheduled fight last month was canceled due to Don King not being able to come to terms with ESPN. How has he been holding up with this layoff?

Richardson: They put it on Don [King]. He played a part in it. Main Events picked up the fight and it was going to Chicago. But then Matt Godfrey said he missed two days of training and said he wasnít ready for the fight. I had the pleasure of working with Matt Godfrey before. So it didnít come down to Don, it was saved by Main Events.

But Steve is a professional. Heís never been discouraged by any stops in his career. He doesnít fall apart. Unfortunately when he was under Don he fought very little. None of these things are going to distract him. When the fight fell out we were still in the gym training and preparing for the next day. I told him to take some time off and he got a little mad at me because I didnít want him even running. Heís driving his wife crazy now, but heís coming back soon to help out some other guys.

AllHipHop.com: There have been Muslim boxers throughout the history of the sport. You had some who were outspoken about it like Muhammad Ali, Naseem Hamed, and Dwight Muhammad Qawi. And you have others who are more subdued about it like Amir Khan. How has Islam helped your approach to the sport of boxing?

Richardson: Islam allows me to understand my identity of whom and what I am, and not let the nonsense restructure my thoughts and ideas. When they cut the cameras on I wonít turn into a buffoon. Itís hard not to, but I wonít let boxing turn me into something Iím not. On 24/7, I saw nothing but Floyd Mayweather Sr. and Freddie Roach going back and forth. I thought they were going to pick up gloves on an episode! I told 24/7 you can keep that with me. I donít want the camera in my face every time Iím talking to my athletes.

AllHipHop.com: Why do you think theyíre trying to make celebrities out of the trainers? For the last few years this has gone on from Buddy McGirt to now Freddie Roach.

Richardson: The trainers stick around longer in the game then the boxers. If they can make them celebrities, they can run it out longer. A lot us fought before, so those who didnít get the limelight as boxers now see their chance to get it. These guys want it! Some of them want to step out and push the fighter to the side. I donít knock them, thatís what they do, but Iím not interested. The athlete is the prime principal, and has to carry out the game plan. It goes back even further than Buddy McGirt. They did it with Cus DíAmato.

Weíre the only sport that we disrespect each other as trainers and fighters. I just read an article with James Toney attacking Bernardís performance in the Jones rematch. Heís talking about Bernardís mother and all kinds of stuff. I understand that Toney is trying to get back on television, I get it. But then we wonder why we canít get respect.

You donít hear George Karl telling Phil Jackson ďyouíre only winning because you got Kobe [Bryant].Ē You donít hear that type of nonsense. It just embarrasses us and says you are not getting enough attention on your own and need to stand on somebody else to be seen. I donít want that, I want to just do the work and what God has planned for me. These guys, itís just foolishness.

When Margarito has illegal hand wraps it is a black eye on all of us. Itís not just an embarrassment to Margarito; itís embarrassment to all of us.

Youíve been writing on boxing for awhile. I was so tired a few years back when people would say ďyou train boxers? I hope youíre not training them to bite ears off!Ē I was like oh lord, I wish I could change what happened with Tyson myself I was so sick of hearing about it. It made us all look bad. That was the position we were put in.

We donít realize weíre all under the same umbrella. You see, Muhammad Ali did something we call now trash talking. But he had flair and was charismatic in the way he went about that. Now everybody think they can do it to sell some extra tickets. Mayweather likes to run his mouth but itís only his opinion.

He likes to run off about PPV numbers like people pay to watch him shadowbox! Those numbers are because Oscar De La Hoya and other guys were across the ring from you! He makes it sound likes itís just his numbers. Akh if you had clout like that you never would have gotten voted off Dancing with the Stars. You wouldíve won the show with just your boxing fans and blew everyone off the show. But you got voted off quite quickly. But thatís neither here nor there.

Floyd knows his audience; he got the barbershop and Hip-Hop audience, the young boys on the corner. A lot of them donít check things on details. If you say something they buy it as true. Youíre dealing with that young media audience that doesnít do a lot of investigating. You keep saying something loud enough people take it as true. So the IRS can be on your ass, but you get on TV and say ďmy stuff is paid for, how about yours,Ē and no one is going to look up income taxes. Theyíll go to YouTube.

But this is boxing, the sport we signed up for; the good, the bad, everything rolled into one. And Iíd be lying if I said I didnít love the sport.

AllHipHop.com: Floyd is fighting the Sugar of his generation, and awhile back I asked him how he would do with the previous Sugars in Ray Robinson and Ray Leonard. He was very respectful of Robinson but laid into Leonard, claiming he lost to his lightweight challenge in Roberto Duran. At the same time, Floyd said he dominated his lightweight moving up. As a trainer whoís seen both, how do you think theyíd match up with Floyd or other guys today at welterweight?

Richardson: Ray Robinson you canít even do because thatís another generation. This is the microwave era. Ray Robinson and them came from an era that was first and second generation poor. These guys were fighting because they were hungry; these werenít spoiled kids with $400 video games and $100 sneakers. They didnít come from that era. Those cats wouldíve blown most of these guys [today] out of the water with their desire and hunger alone.

Ray Leonard is a talent that would be a problem in any era. He could punch good, great hand speed and boxing IQ.

Floyd knows what heís doing. Muhammad Ali called himself great before he even knew he was. How many people have we called great who didnít call themselves that first? So Floyd is just following what history has shown. If he can protect his undefeated record, he can say ďRay Robinson was great but I am greater. How many fights did he lose?Ē This is his goal.

Itís not a bad plan; so far it worked out for him. I think it was genius when he retired. If he wouldíve beat Cotto they wouldíve said fight Margarito. If he beats Margarito they say fight Kermit Cintron. If he beats Cintron they say fight Shane Mosley. He beats Mosley they say fight Paul Williams. And that was just a little too much for him to run down. So if I retire and let these killers fight each other, I can pick up the leftovers. Because you couldnít pull Margarito on top of this dude!

Bob Arum used to disrespect him with Margarito. He used to be like ďHey b***h you ainít number 1, I got Margarito!Ē And Floyd would turn his head and start talking about basketball. Like he never heard of him, because he knew Margarito had the kind of chin where he would just walk through whatever he was doing. If he sat on the ropes Margarito would just walk through that shit. If you canít hurt Margarito you canít beat Margarito! And Floyd knew he couldnít beat or hurt him.

Nobody really wanted to fight Margarito. And after Shane blew him out, nobody really wanted to fight Shane. But Mayweatherís perspective makes sense in saying ďIíll take a chance with a man that can hurt me, and I can keep myself from getting hurt, opposed to a man I cannot hurt at all.Ē People said Margarito was one-dimensional. We can sit on a train track and know the train is coming the same way, but stand your ass on the track and what still happens? Thatís what Margarito was.

AllHipHop.com: This has been a great interview, Naazim. Any closing thoughts?

Richardson: I will say this. You have good fighters, then you have champions, then you have elite champions, and finally fighters who are special. This is the rare time we will see two fighters who are special. They got past the elites in the Margaritos and Ricky Hattons. Both have special fighters on their resume in Oscar De La Hoya. Floyd is an undefeated special fighter, which Shane has faced before.

I have a great deal of respect for both. All special guys are what I call misleading fighters. Hopkins talks so much s**tyou forget heís more technical than gorilla. All that prison, gangsta talk misleads you. Pacquiao they call him small like heís 4 feet tall. But when you get in the ring you realize he ainít that small! Mayweather, all that s**ttalking you think you can hit him right in the mouth. But he isnít that easy to hit. Mosley, he looks like he should be selling you car insurance with all that smiling, but heís a gorilla.

Pioneers donít need blueprints, Floyd. Muhammad Ali and Wilt Chamberlain didnít need them. There was none on Margarito. Thatís how the world works. Weíre up for the task. It wonít be easy. But if it was, anyone could do it.

Writerís Note: Mayweather-Mosley is live on HBO PPV May 1. The next 24/7 Mayweather-Mosley is this Saturday (April 17 ) at 9:30PM.
thehype
Ismael should have picked a better title for this interview. After speaking with him shortly after he did this interview, the impression that I got was that he already knows the answer to that question.

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Method
Elaborate.

I didnt even get to read the interview yet (got jammed up at work), but fuck, it seems pretty extensive for a hiphop website...not just the regular old cookie-cutter softball questioning.
Snoop
Good Interview but don't know if the content warrants the title. Love his take on the Margarito situation though. Extremely well-balanced and objective.
thehype
QUOTE (Method @ Apr 20 2010, 10:33 AM) *
Elaborate.

I didnt even get to read the interview yet (got jammed up at work), but fuck, it seems pretty extensive for a hiphop website...not just the regular old cookie-cutter softball questioning.


Just said he didn't think Naazim sounded too confident. LOL.
Method
Ahhh.
Big Slim Sweet
Great read. I didn't think he sounded like he was lacking confidence, though maybe there was something to the way he was saying things that indicated that.
thehype
A typed interview doesn't exactly relay the tone or the pauses in ones voice....but regardless, it was so much the stuff he said on the record, but the stuff that he said off the record.

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Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (thehype @ Apr 20 2010, 11:24 AM) *
A typed interview doesn't exactly relay the tone or the pauses in ones voice....but regardless, it was so much the stuff he said on the record, but the stuff that he said off the record.

laugh.gif

?????????????
KookedKrack
sad.gif

war mosley?
Big Slim Sweet
Hype's just trying to irritate the War Train members. Trying to get in our heads. He's looking for any advantage possible come fight time.
thehype
QUOTE (Sweetness @ Apr 20 2010, 01:06 PM) *
Hype's just trying to irritate the War Train members. Trying to get in our heads. He's looking for any advantage possible come fight time.


laugh.gif

Not at all. I like to see the War Train members getting all pumped up for a letdown. It's a funny thing to watch.

laugh.gif

I do hope I'm wrong though.
RyanTical
QUOTE (thehype @ Apr 20 2010, 10:33 AM) *
laugh.gif

Not at all. I like to see the War Train members getting all pumped up for a letdown. It's a funny thing to watch.

laugh.gif

I do hope I'm wrong though.


Don't worry about it. You won't be. smile.gif
Snoop
I liked the interview, but I didn't really see any blueprint to beating Mayweather besides these very ambiguous comparisons to the eventual losses of Muhammad Ali and SRR. The "pause" in response to the rumor that Shane wasn't too well in sparring session wasn't too helpful either. I think the title just makes people read the article, but 70% of the article was not about Floyd.
RyanTical
QUOTE (Snoop @ Apr 20 2010, 04:52 PM) *
I liked the interview, but I didn't really see any blueprint to beating Mayweather besides these very ambiguous comparisons to the eventual losses of Muhammad Ali and SRR. The "pause" in response to the rumor that Shane wasn't too well in sparring session wasn't too helpful either. I think the title just makes people read the article, but 70% of the article was not about Floyd.


As did I. I thought it was informative to know what's going on in Brotha' Nazim's head. I think he may be a tad bit confused as to which Shane Mosley will enter the ring. The dominant Mosley or the old Mosley ó a side of Mosley we have yet to see.

If some of you can say Mayweather will get kayo'd then the chances of seeing an old Mosley is just as high, IMO.
Fitz
I hope thehype is wrong, and it's him just not liking Mosley but something tells me he is right. I think Mayweather is always very difficult to beat.
Snoop
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 21 2010, 12:09 AM) *
I hope thehype is wrong, and it's him just not liking Mosley but something tells me he is right. I think Mayweather is always very difficult to beat.

Without Naaz in his corner, I would give Shane almost no chance of winning the fight, and now that his biggest asset is sounding kind of unsure, it makes me think Floyd is gonna win this thing easily.
TRU
Nazeem is no salesman.

He knows the truth.

Shane Mosley was ruined by Vernon Forrest and nobody sees it.

Boxing fans must be blind.
Keith
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 20 2010, 08:16 PM) *
Nazeem is no salesman.

He knows the truth.

Shane Mosley was ruined by Vernon Forrest and nobody sees it.

Boxing fans must be blind.


Ruined? That is a gross innacuracy on any level.
RyanTical
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 20 2010, 05:16 PM) *
Nazeem is no salesman.

He knows the truth.

Shane Mosley was ruined by Vernon Forrest and nobody sees it.

Boxing fans must be blind.


That could very well be true. I'm already convinced Floyd would win, however, Floyd losing by some shocking kayo ó would not suprise me, Shane Mosley is certainly capable of such.
TRU
QUOTE (Keith @ Apr 20 2010, 07:25 PM) *
Ruined? That is a gross innacuracy on any level.


Think... Camacho-Rosario... if you even know about that one.
Keith
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 20 2010, 08:28 PM) *
Think... Camacho-Rosario... if you even know about that one.


Listen, you can claim whatever you want. I wouldnt have the slightest problem with you claiming Forrest dimished Shane in some way. But to say he ruined him is grossly innacurate. Since the Forrest loses Shane has beaten good fighters. He has loses to Winky and Cotto(no shame in losing to either imo) but since Forrest he has yet to taste the canvas again. Ruined fighters dont beat the likes of DLH, Vargas, Collazo, and Margarito. Ruined fighters get beat up.




TRU
QUOTE (Keith @ Apr 20 2010, 08:37 PM) *
Listen, you can claim whatever you want. I wouldnt have the slightest problem with you claiming Forrest dimished Shane in some way. But to say he ruined him is grossly innacurate. Since the Forrest loses Shane has beaten good fighters. He has loses to Winky and Cotto(no shame in losing to either imo) but since Forrest he has yet to taste the canvas again. Ruined fighters dont beat the likes of DLH, Vargas, Collazo, and Margarito. Ruined fighters get beat up.



The fact that you bring up Oscar and Vargas as credible wins for Shane shows there's no point to this discussion.

Holding/Clinching mask the ruin that Vernon brought upon Shane.

Open your eyes my friends...
Keith
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 20 2010, 08:43 PM) *
The fact that you bring up Oscar and Vargas as credible wins for Shane shows there's no point to this discussion.

Holding/Clinching mask the ruin that Vernon brought upon Shane.

Open your eyes my friends...


First... are holding and clinching illegal in boxing? Its strange, but I see them in every fight to some degree.
TRU
QUOTE (Keith @ Apr 20 2010, 08:47 PM) *
First... are holding and clinching illegal in boxing? Its strange, but I see them in every fight to some degree.


Ummm, I assumed people here understood the rules of boxing.

Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquess_of_Queensberry_rules

Fitz
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 21 2010, 10:43 AM) *
The fact that you bring up Oscar and Vargas as credible wins for Shane shows there's no point to this discussion.

Holding/Clinching mask the ruin that Vernon brought upon Shane.

Open your eyes my friends...


Why isn't an Oscar win credible?
TRU
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 20 2010, 08:50 PM) *
Why isn't an Oscar win credible?


Ummm... how did you score the fight?
Fitz
I scored it for Oscar, I see what you are getting at. I just thought you were insinuating about the quality of Oscar.
Keith
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 20 2010, 08:50 PM) *
Ummm, I assumed people here understood the rules of boxing.

Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquess_of_Queensberry_rules


Hugging and wrestling are not the same as holding and clinching. If we used your interpretation of the rules, every fight would end in a dq.

Here's something you just wrote in another thread....

QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 20 2010, 08:48 PM) *
Wait... Floyd has a close fight against Oscar at 154 and now he beats Martinez?

Oscar was not faded in that fight with Floyd but he definitely wasn't in his physical prime like he was against Mosley the first go around.


after writing this here...

QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 20 2010, 08:43 PM) *
The fact that you bring up Oscar and Vargas as credible wins for Shane shows there's no point to this discussion.


So the Oscar Floyd fought was not faded and the Oscar Shane beat 4 years prior to that isnt credible? Or maybe you just disagree with the scoring... which is a different discussion. But even if you had Oscar up on the cards in that fight then I still cant see how that proves Shane is ruined. a 7-5 loss to Oscar at 154(clearly not Shanes best weight since he currently is at 147) hardly lends Shane ruined.

Was Vargas the best competition... no, but Shane treated him as such. The fact that you feel Vargas was compromised proves that Shane clearly wasnt.

Method
Im laying money on Mosely. I ain't never heard Naaz sound "unsure". As much as I enjoyed the interview, Im not gonna base my interpretation of Naazim off of a hiphop site that is partial to Mayweather.


Maybe Percy fighthype can get an interview w Naazim like they have in the past, and we can get it from the horse's mouth.

Im laying some money on Mosely.
Lil-lightsout
Sorry... but ruined fighters DON't do the things Mosley did to Margarito last year. Say what you want about Margarito, but WHO ever remotely handled him like that??? To me he looked like an energized confident fighter that night, and from the looks and sounds of him now, Mayweather is going to have his hands full regardless of the outcome.

I could care less what the rules on clinching/holding are, it is a part of the sport that pretty much most boxers use.
TRU
QUOTE (Keith @ Apr 20 2010, 09:17 PM) *
Hugging and wrestling are not the same as holding and clinching. If we used your interpretation of the rules, every fight would end in a dq.

Here's something you just wrote in another thread....



after writing this here...



So the Oscar Floyd fought was not faded and the Oscar Shane beat 4 years prior to that isnt credible? Or maybe you just disagree with the scoring... which is a different discussion. But even if you had Oscar up on the cards in that fight then I still cant see how that proves Shane is ruined. a 7-5 loss to Oscar at 154(clearly not Shanes best weight since he currently is at 147) hardly lends Shane ruined.

Was Vargas the best competition... no, but Shane treated him as such. The fact that you feel Vargas was compromised proves that Shane clearly wasnt.


1. Hugging and wrestling are not the same as holding and clinching? Do you speak fucking english? Give me an example because I can't even begin to comprehend what you just wrote.


2. Shane didn't beat Oscar in the rematch... plain and very simple.

I love how "close" losses ad to Shane's credibility. Shane was ruined because it is EVIDENT when you watch him fight prior to the first Vernon Forrest fight and the manner in which he fights after. If you don't get it, I can't help you.

As for Vargas... it's funny. When the fight happened everyone knew it was a gimme but now that years have passed, it's a credible name on a resume.

Rookies galore.

and Method will continue his shitty losing streak by betting on Shane.
Byrd Man
until someone beats Floyd, there is NO blueprint. People can say they have a blueprint to defeat him, but it's never happened so as far as I am concerned, there IS no blueprint.
D-MARV
LOL... Vargas was suppose to be a gimme and was very competitive in the first fight.


I love Shane to death... I can't remember EVER rooting against him but He will lose this fight and I think their will be a lot of shocked people after they see the manner he losses in.
TRU
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 20 2010, 09:48 PM) *
LOL... Vargas was suppose to be a gimme and was very competitive in the first fight.


I love Shane to death... I can't remember EVER rooting against him but He will lose this fight and I think their will be a lot of shocked people after they see the manner he losses in.


Truer words have NEVER been spoken.

When a shotter than shot Vargas is giving you hell... you are RUINED.

There's this thing called YouTube folks... use it.
Fitz
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 21 2010, 11:44 AM) *
1. Hugging and wrestling are not the same as holding and clinching? Do you speak fucking english? Give me an example because I can't even begin to comprehend what you just wrote.


2. Shane didn't beat Oscar in the rematch... plain and very simple.

I love how "close" losses ad to Shane's credibility. Shane was ruined because it is EVIDENT when you watch him fight prior to the first Vernon Forrest fight and the manner in which he fights after. If you don't get it, I can't help you.

As for Vargas... it's funny. When the fight happened everyone knew it was a gimme but now that years have passed, it's a credible name on a resume.

Rookies galore.

and Method will continue his shitty losing streak by betting on Shane.


I agree with you, though I think some parts are exaggerated. Has Mosley slipped and not been in his prime since Forrest? Sure. Was he ruined? No. Vargas is what a ruined fighter looks like, not Mosey.

Also there is nothing wrong with holding and clinching, it's part of the sport and it can be used in a good manner. Like what Mosley did to Margarito, the way he used the clinch in that fight is how it was supposed to be used.
If fighters just clinch the whole time any time their opponent gets close and over uses it unnecessarily it's shit, but some fighters actually use it how it's supposed to be used at times.
TRU
95 clinches against Cotto... is that not excessive?
Method
I thought Floyd pretty much drew w DLH. I think Shane cracks a little harder, and will be a little stronger down the stretch (than DLH was). I have no problem laying a little on Shane. I think hes as live as they come, and it won't surprise me a bit to see Naazim guide him to a "W".

Forrest and Wright might have whipped the tar outta Shane, but I'd tab both versions of them at the time woulda put it on Floyd too. Forrest was a big welter, and Wright was a big Jr Middle.
Fitz
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 21 2010, 11:58 AM) *
95 clinches against Cotto... is that not excessive?


95? Sounds excessive when you put the numbers out, but mustn't have been 'bad' holding, because to me that was one of the fights of the year.

http://www.fighthype.com/community/index.p...Mosley&st=0

Go have a read about the round by round thread. Most people enjoyed the fight and didn't really complain too much about excessive holding. If the holding was bad, we would be getting the same reaction that Ruiz and Hatton had after some of their fights. Not the respect Cotto and Mosley got from their fight.
Yes 95 sounds excessive when you lay the number out, but he clearly must have been using the clinch how it was intended to be used if not many people actually complained about it, because most people didn't even notice it was that much because he was still able to fight and still had flow in the fight.
TRU
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 20 2010, 10:07 PM) *
95? Sounds excessive when you put the numbers out, but mustn't have been 'bad' holding, because to me that was one of the fights of the year.

http://www.fighthype.com/community/index.p...Mosley&st=0

Go have a read about the round by round thread. Most people enjoyed the fight and didn't really complain too much about excessive holding. If the holding was bad, we would be getting the same reaction that Ruiz and Hatton had after some of their fights. Not the respect Cotto and Mosley got from their fight.
Yes 95 sounds excessive when you lay the number out, but he clearly must have been using the clinch how it was intended to be used if not many people actually complained about it, because most people didn't even notice it was that much because he was still able to fight and still had flow in the fight.


Judge for yourself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBr__cfEVrA

Non-boxing fans weren't thrilled about the fight. That's how you truly gauge the true intrigue of a fight. Not guys that jerkoff to Mosley's greatest hits on YouTube.
Keith
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 20 2010, 09:58 PM) *
95 clinches against Cotto... is that not excessive?


Just out of curiosity... where did you arrive at that number? And is that the total clinches or only the ones initiated by Mosley?

How do you count a clinch? Is it anytime the ref has to split you up or just anytime the fighters grab each other regardless of situation?

Has Shane Mosley ever been so much as warned by a ref for excessive clinching/holding?
TRU
QUOTE (Keith @ Apr 20 2010, 10:14 PM) *
Just out of curiosity... where did you arrive at that number? And is that the total clinches or only the ones initiated by Mosley?

How do you count a clinch? Is it anytime the ref has to split you up or just anytime the fighters grab each other regardless of situation?

Has Shane Mosley ever been so much as warned by a ref for excessive clinching/holding?



Miguel Cotto doesn't clinch... period. As in PERIOD.

95 clinches were initiated by Mosley... 15 in 5th round of the Cotto fight.

Watch for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBr__cfEVrA

And yes... Mosley has been warned but never a point taken away. It's inept and/or scared refs that are too weak to make the correct call and deduct points.

Shane holds and LOOKS to hold because he's scared to get hurt badly against like he did in the first Vernon fight. That is not opinion... it is FACT.
Fitz
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 21 2010, 12:10 PM) *
Judge for yourself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBr__cfEVrA

Non-boxing fans weren't thrilled about the fight. That's how you truly gauge the true intrigue of a fight. Not guys that jerkoff to Mosley's greatest hits on YouTube.


rolleyes_anim.gif

Yeah, a boxing video that YOU uploaded that has a description of "Somebody clinches... somebody doesn't." You already have an agenda, when you have a video like that. Yeah lets use a video that you uploaded that criticises Mosley clinching and then look at the youtube comments to gauge on what 'real' boxing fans are.

Let me pull a video that is intended to bag Mayweather and use all the youtube comments as a benchmark for what 'real boxing' fans are

rolleyes_anim.gif

By the way, I am neutral with Mosley. He has never been one of my favourites.
TRU
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 20 2010, 10:21 PM) *
rolleyes_anim.gif

Yeah, a boxing video that YOU uploaded that has a description of "Somebody clinches... somebody doesn't." You already have an agenda, when you have a video like that. Yeah lets use a video that you uploaded that criticises Mosley clinching and then look at the youtube comments to gauge on what 'real' boxing fans are.

Let me pull a video that is intended to bag Mayweather and use all the youtube comments as a benchmark for what 'real boxing' fans are

rolleyes_anim.gif

By the way, I am neutral with Mosley. He has never been one of my favourites.


LOL... did I alter the video?

NOPE. 15 clinches in one round.

Enough said.
JD
I agree that Mosley holds excessively.

TRU
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 20 2010, 10:30 PM) *
I agree that Mosley holds excessively.


JACKPOT. Vernon... you are one of the ONLY smart boxing posters online.
JD
He ramps it up when he struggles to get his flurries off.

Once Cotto timed him, Mosley would grab constantly. Mosley was able to get back in the fight as Cotto wore down late.
TRU
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 20 2010, 10:36 PM) *
He ramps it up when he struggles to get his flurries off.

Once Cotto timed him, Mosley would grab constantly. Mosley was able to get back in the fight as Cotto wore down late.


I honestly feel as though Cotto started to box more later because everytime he'd press and get close to Shane, he'd get clinched.

I think he adjusted later and decided to box to avoid the clinching as well as possibly being a little bit tired.
Fitz
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 21 2010, 12:22 PM) *
LOL... did I alter the video?

NOPE. 15 clinches in one round.

Enough said.


No you didn't. But I get the impression that you are against clinching period. I think clinching can be pulled off in a good manner. Someone like Ruiz was someone that did it dreadfully, I don't believe Mosley was the case.
For the record, I didn't watch all your video, but saw a little bit. To me, I thought it showed that Cotto is unable to clinch and Mosley can. That is why Cotto was stopped with Margarito and probably Pacquiao, because he doesn't know how survive and clinch.
I think clinching is a problem when it brings down the quality in a fight, I think Mosley still puts on entertaining fights, so it isn't a problem like some of the other fighters.
TRU
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 20 2010, 10:41 PM) *
No you didn't. But I get the impression that you are against clinching period. I think clinching can be pulled off in a good manner. Someone like Ruiz was someone that did it dreadfully, I don't believe Mosley was the case.
For the record, I didn't watch all your video, but saw a little bit. To me, I thought it showed that Cotto is unable to clinch and Mosley can. That is why Cotto was stopped with Margarito and probably Pacquiao, because he doesn't know how survive and clinch.
I think clinching is a problem when it brings down the quality in a fight, I think Mosley still puts on entertaining fights, so it isn't a problem like some of the other fighters.


I can't convince you of what is entertaining and what isn't. Some people like to watch animals fuck... it ain't my cup of tea but that's their form of entertainment.

Great fights in boxing involve little clinching. There has never been a Fight of the Year that involved excessive clinching. Shane Mosley has never been in a "Fight of the Year" or Fight of the year candidate for that matter... there's a reason for it especially for a fighter deemed as so "Exciting".

The original point of this was the fact that Mosley is ruined. Anyone that used to clinch minimally and now clinches upwards of 15 times a round shows that they have serious issues.

It's not a physical example of being ruined but more mentally. His confidence is not there. His primary game was to take shots and dish out his own using his speed and crisp combinations to break down his opponent. He doesn't have the confidence to take a shot anymore hence his relying on clinching to avoid taking flush punches and avoid punishment.

Here is shane before the vernon fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXD-KJvjUAI

Here is shane after the vernon fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0rUaJrfHAw...feature=related

Night and day...

PS. Oh... and Martinez used clinching against Pavlik in spots. It was close to being the slightest bit excessive but he then turned it up and it's a non-event. But nothing even CLOSE to 15 times a round.
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