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TRU
I can't remember the time I've seen a guy deemed as an all-time great looking so visibly discouraged each and every time out.

Can you guys?

This is a serious question... not hating.
Douchebag
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 26 2010, 01:16 PM) *
I can't remember the time I've seen a guy deemed as an all-time great looking so visibly discouraged each and every time out.

Can you guys?

This is a serious question... not hating.



LOL
enigma1969
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 26 2010, 06:16 PM) *
I can't remember the time I've seen a guy deemed as an all-time great looking so visibly discouraged each and every time out.

Can you guys?

This is a serious question... not hating.


I would not consider Mosley an all-time great. But I don't consider Roy Jones an all-time great either. But to answer your question There has been times he looks frustrated but not every time out. I didn't see any frustrated when fought as a lightweight.
He had fought 34 times amassing a 34–0 (32) record, beating undefeated Phillip Holiday to win the IBF Lightweight title. He made 9 title defenses with all inside the distance, but never unified belts. Mosley relinquished his lightweight title to move up 2 divisions, facing Oscar De La Hoya for his Welterweight title.

I didn't see any signs of frustration as he came on strong down the stretch as De La Hoya started to fade and Mosley finished strong. Shane was brimming with confidence and was considered pound for pound the best fighter in the world at the time. Ranked ahead of Roy Jones Jr, Felix Trinidad, and Bernard Hopkins.

Now when Mosley met Forrest ... he looked confused and lost. A clash of heads and dealing with a monster of a welterweight in the The Viper.

This was the first time I saw Mosley clearly frustrated. The main reason was because he was getting his ass kicked. But he never stopped trying. Didn't helped that his father went into a panic as well.

Mosley rematch against Forrest and lost. Frustrated looking from losing? Maybe? Maybe not.

Mosley fought Winky Wright twice ... a fighter that many high-profile welterweights clearly didn't fight. I saw Felix Trinidad looking confused and frustrated against Hopkins and Wright.

Mosley seemed more sure of himself in their rematch and did much better but he lost.

The only pattern I can see is the same pattern I see in many fighters ... Mosley not being an exception. What happens when you can't figure a guy out. Cotto wore that same look when he fought Pac Man. Roy Jones Jr looked that way in all three of his fights against Traver. Tyson was no longer the baddest man against Douglas or Holyfield. Tyson became so upset and bewildered he went Dracula in their rematch. Holyfield was frustrated against an young and hungry Riddick Bowe in their first fight.

What about Duran against Sugar Ray. He was so frustrated that he quit. How about Hagler calling Ray an bitch in their super fight because he couldn't draw Ray into a war. Never saw Hagler looking so frustrated and upset.

Looking at so old fight films of of the original Sugar. Watch how frustrated Jake LaMotta looked ... as Ray Robinson unleashed combinations time and time again on the raging bull's fast.

How about the look on Erick Morales face ... after quitting against Pac Man in their third fight.

Has anyone forgotten the look on Alexis Argüello's face ... after being savagely beaten by Aaron Pryor in their rematch. He looked discouraged. Something he admitted years later.

Fighters are human. And Mosley is not Cotto, Hopkins, Barrera, and Julio Cesar Chavez. Those men rarely show any emotions.

Hope this answers your question.


KookedKrack
dry.gif

Troll Thread.
TRU
QUOTE (enigma1969 @ Apr 26 2010, 08:32 PM) *
I would not consider Mosley an all-time great. But I don't consider Roy Jones an all-time great either. But to answer your question There has been times he looks frustrated but not every time out. I didn't see any frustrated when fought as a lightweight.
He had fought 34 times amassing a 34–0 (32) record, beating undefeated Phillip Holiday to win the IBF Lightweight title. He made 9 title defenses with all inside the distance, but never unified belts. Mosley relinquished his lightweight title to move up 2 divisions, facing Oscar De La Hoya for his Welterweight title.

I didn't see any signs of frustration as he came on strong down the stretch as De La Hoya started to fade and Mosley finished strong. Shane was brimming with confidence and was considered pound for pound the best fighter in the world at the time. Ranked ahead of Roy Jones Jr, Felix Trinidad, and Bernard Hopkins.

Now when Mosley met Forrest ... he looked confused and lost. A clash of heads and dealing with a monster of a welterweight in the The Viper.

This was the first time I saw Mosley clearly frustrated. The main reason was because he was getting his ass kicked. But he never stopped trying. Didn't helped that his father went into a panic as well.

Mosley rematch against Forrest and lost. Frustrated looking from losing? Maybe? Maybe not.

Mosley fought Winky Wright twice ... a fighter that many high-profile welterweights clearly didn't fight. I saw Felix Trinidad looking confused and frustrated against Hopkins and Wright.

Mosley seemed more sure of himself in their rematch and did much better but he lost.

The only pattern I can see is the same pattern I see in many fighters ... Mosley not being an exception. What happens when you can't figure a guy out. Cotto wore that same look when he fought Pac Man. Roy Jones Jr looked that way in all three of his fights against Traver. Tyson was no longer the baddest man against Douglas or Holyfield. Tyson became so upset and bewildered he went Dracula in their rematch. Holyfield was frustrated against an young and hungry Riddick Bowe in their first fight.

What about Duran against Sugar Ray. He was so frustrated that he quit. How about Hagler calling Ray an bitch in their super fight because he couldn't draw Ray into a war. Never saw Hagler looking so frustrated and upset.

Looking at so old fight films of of the original Sugar. Watch how frustrated Jake LaMotta looked ... as Ray Robinson unleashed combinations time and time again on the raging bull's fast.

How about the look on Erick Morales face ... after quitting against Pac Man in their third fight.

Has anyone forgotten the look on Alexis Argüello's face ... after being savagely beaten by Aaron Pryor in their rematch. He looked discouraged. Something he admitted years later.

Fighters are human. And Mosley is not Cotto, Hopkins, Barrera, and Julio Cesar Chavez. Those men rarely show any emotions.

Hope this answers your question.


Great examples old friend...

The look of distress I'm referring to is strictly after his first fight with Vernon.

I'm more of referring to the times when he fought sub-par competition like David Estrada and Jose Luis Cruz... even a VERY shopworn Vargas.

I was expecting to see the Shane from fights prior to Vernon fight in these scraps and still saw some of the same issues regarding that confused look.

Just wondering what you thought.
King Eugene
You mean this look right?



JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (King Eugene @ Apr 26 2010, 11:14 PM) *
You mean this look right?


That's just Mosley sayin to DLH "WE should be making more on this fight"
King Eugene
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Apr 27 2010, 12:16 AM) *
That's just Mosley sayin to DLH "WE should be making more on this fight"

Oscars thinking to himself..."I am!" laugh.gif
Voodoo
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 26 2010, 09:10 PM) *
Great examples old friend...

The look of distress I'm referring to is strictly after his first fight with Vernon.

I'm more of referring to the times when he fought sub-par competition like David Estrada and Jose Luis Cruz... even a VERY shopworn Vargas.

I was expecting to see the Shane from fights prior to Vernon fight in these scraps and still saw some of the same issues regarding that confused look.

Just wondering what you thought.
The thing with the Estrada and Cruz fights is Shane was working with John David Jackson as his trainer. Jackson's plan for Shane was to box and be more defensive as he planned to extend Shane's career. So if there was a look of confusion during those fights that could be the reason. Shane was not only still working on confidence issues but was also playing with a new trainer and an altered style. I can't comment on the Cruz fight because I don't remember it, but although most people think Shane struggled with Estrada I saw Shane dominate the guy. He just didn't do it in his normal aggressive style that most are used to. He did however do just what Jackson trained him to do, which was box patiently and be more defensive and in that vein he dominated.

As for the confused frustrated look, I think it gets over emphasized. I've heard people say he had that look against Collazo which is a fight he completely dominated. Who knows what that look means anyway, it could just be fatigue.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (Voodoo @ Apr 27 2010, 02:10 AM) *
The thing with the Estrada and Cruz fights is Shane was working with John David Jackson as his trainer. Jackson's plan for Shane was to box and be more defensive as he planned to extend Shane's career. So if there was a look of confusion during those fights that could be the reason. Shane was not only still working on confidence issues but was also playing with a new trainer and an altered style. I can't comment on the Cruz fight because I don't remember it, but although most people think Shane struggled with Estrada I saw Shane dominate the guy. He just didn't do it in his normal aggressive style that most are used to. He did however do just what Jackson trained him to do, which was box patiently and be more defensive and in that vein he dominated.

As for the confused frustrated look, I think it gets over emphasized. I've heard people say he had that look against Collazo which is a fight he completely dominated. Who knows what that look means anyway, it could just be fatigue.


Co-sign. That quizzical look Shane gets, I think people sometimes pick up on it too much. Almost like they're looking for it. I thought he looked pretty confident during the Collazo fight.
JD
"I hope this works!!!!!!!!!"
jlupi
Now when Mosley met Forrest ... he looked confused and lost. A clash of heads and dealing with a monster of a welterweight in the The Viper. >>>>

that fight should have been stopped in the 2nd. head but or rt hand or both mosley fought from then on w a concussion.
enigma1969
QUOTE (jlupi @ Apr 27 2010, 04:46 PM) *
Now when Mosley met Forrest ... he looked confused and lost. A clash of heads and dealing with a monster of a welterweight in the The Viper. >>>>

that fight should have been stopped in the 2nd. head but or rt hand or both mosley fought from then on w a concussion.


Yes he was fighting with an concussion. In retro - that says a lot about Mosley as a fighter.
TRU
QUOTE (enigma1969 @ Apr 27 2010, 01:35 PM) *
Yes he was fighting with an concussion. In retro - that says a lot about Mosley as a fighter.


Of course man... Mosley's dad fucked up in that fight.

I feel bad for Shane, he took a bad proLONGED beating in that fight.
xxxxxx
QUOTE (enigma1969 @ Apr 26 2010, 07:32 PM) *
I would not consider Mosley an all-time great. But I don't consider Roy Jones an all-time great either. But to answer your question There has been times he looks frustrated but not every time out. I didn't see any frustrated when fought as a lightweight.
He had fought 34 times amassing a 34–0 (32) record, beating undefeated Phillip Holiday to win the IBF Lightweight title. He made 9 title defenses with all inside the distance, but never unified belts. Mosley relinquished his lightweight title to move up 2 divisions, facing Oscar De La Hoya for his Welterweight title.

I didn't see any signs of frustration as he came on strong down the stretch as De La Hoya started to fade and Mosley finished strong. Shane was brimming with confidence and was considered pound for pound the best fighter in the world at the time. Ranked ahead of Roy Jones Jr, Felix Trinidad, and Bernard Hopkins.

Now when Mosley met Forrest ... he looked confused and lost. A clash of heads and dealing with a monster of a welterweight in the The Viper.

This was the first time I saw Mosley clearly frustrated. The main reason was because he was getting his ass kicked. But he never stopped trying. Didn't helped that his father went into a panic as well.

Mosley rematch against Forrest and lost. Frustrated looking from losing? Maybe? Maybe not.

Mosley fought Winky Wright twice ... a fighter that many high-profile welterweights clearly didn't fight. I saw Felix Trinidad looking confused and frustrated against Hopkins and Wright.

Mosley seemed more sure of himself in their rematch and did much better but he lost.

The only pattern I can see is the same pattern I see in many fighters ... Mosley not being an exception. What happens when you can't figure a guy out. Cotto wore that same look when he fought Pac Man. Roy Jones Jr looked that way in all three of his fights against Traver. Tyson was no longer the baddest man against Douglas or Holyfield. Tyson became so upset and bewildered he went Dracula in their rematch. Holyfield was frustrated against an young and hungry Riddick Bowe in their first fight.

What about Duran against Sugar Ray. He was so frustrated that he quit. How about Hagler calling Ray an bitch in their super fight because he couldn't draw Ray into a war. Never saw Hagler looking so frustrated and upset.

Looking at so old fight films of of the original Sugar. Watch how frustrated Jake LaMotta looked ... as Ray Robinson unleashed combinations time and time again on the raging bull's fast.

How about the look on Erick Morales face ... after quitting against Pac Man in their third fight.

Has anyone forgotten the look on Alexis Argüello's face ... after being savagely beaten by Aaron Pryor in their rematch. He looked discouraged. Something he admitted years later.

Fighters are human. And Mosley is not Cotto, Hopkins, Barrera, and Julio Cesar Chavez. Those men rarely show any emotions.

Hope this answers your question.



Solid Post...couldn't have said it better myself. It's also nice to see Pryor get some props. thumbsup_anim.gif
enigma1969
QUOTE (xxxxxx @ Apr 27 2010, 09:17 PM) *
Solid Post...couldn't have said it better myself. It's also nice to see Pryor get some props. thumbsup_anim.gif


Thanks man. The Hawk was a beast. Check out the front page and read about Mayweather vs Mosley career-defining fights. Pryor is given mad props in that piece.

Lil-lightsout
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 27 2010, 12:10 AM) *
Great examples old friend...

The look of distress I'm referring to is strictly after his first fight with Vernon.

I'm more of referring to the times when he fought sub-par competition like David Estrada and Jose Luis Cruz... even a VERY shopworn Vargas.

I was expecting to see the Shane from fights prior to Vernon fight in these scraps and still saw some of the same issues regarding that confused look.

Just wondering what you thought.


Just maybe Shane was not as prepared for these less threatening fights? Maybe he just was not as motivated fighting these lesser fighters? Many champs have shown to fight down to there competition on occasions. Mayweather-Burton, Toney-Thadzi, Lewis-Rahman I, etc.
TRU
QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Apr 28 2010, 02:19 AM) *
Just maybe Shane was not as prepared for these less threatening fights? Maybe he just was not as motivated fighting these lesser fighters? Many champs have shown to fight down to there competition on occasions. Mayweather-Burton, Toney-Thadzi, Lewis-Rahman I, etc.


That could be the case but I've just seen a certain demeanor that's been consistent ever since that Forrest bout in each of his fights since.

I truly remember thinking that the Raul Marquez fight was just a comeback trail type of fight and that Mosley would bounce back and regain his old swagger.

Then several fights later I'm seeing him fight Estrada and it's the same thing.

I kept on waiting to see the Mosley of old and it never happened leading me to believe that the Forrest fight made him gun-shy. Not completely but it definitely changed him.

I honestly believe his lack of commitment to the jab has to do with memories of seeing and feeling that overhand right hurting him badly in that fight. His lack of confidence in being able to withstand any punches doesnt' allow him to sit in the pocket and fire of nasty combinations as he used to.

They say a guy who swings for the fences is a scared fighter since he's trying to end it with one shot and go home...

Just an opinion.
Douchebag
Maybe the reason he doesn't sit in the pocket and trade shots with is opponents is because he knows he doesn't have the reflexes do that anymore.
TRU
QUOTE (The Conscience @ Apr 28 2010, 01:53 PM) *
Maybe the reason he doesn't sit in the pocket and trade shots with is opponents is because he knows he doesn't have the reflexes do that anymore.


It's been an aspect of his game that's changed ever since the Forrest fight... not recently.
enigma1969
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 28 2010, 07:06 PM) *
It's been an aspect of his game that's changed ever since the Forrest fight... not recently.


Really?

Point out the fights?

TRU
QUOTE (enigma1969 @ Apr 28 2010, 02:44 PM) *
Really?

Point out the fights?


Marquez, Estrada, Cruz, Mayorga...
enigma1969
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 28 2010, 10:54 PM) *
Marquez, Estrada, Cruz, Mayorga...


I disagree with you ... I will say that Mayorga makes everyone look confused because of his style. He made the late Vernon Forrest look confused in both of their fights.

In the end we just agree to disagree.


JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (enigma1969 @ Apr 28 2010, 10:45 PM) *
I disagree with you ... I will say that Mayorga makes everyone look confused because of his style. He made the late Vernon Forrest look confused in both of their fights.

In the end we just agree to disagree.

True..Mayorga is very unorthadox..
TRU
Did either of you see any sort of confusion from De la Hoya in their fight?
enigma1969
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 29 2010, 07:58 AM) *
Did either of you see any sort of confusion from De la Hoya in their fight?


Tru -

Man, I can sit back and pick out confusion in the face of EVERY fighter in the game!

From Ali, Trinidad, Mayweather, Forrest, Hopkins, Roy Jones, Hagler, Hearns, Pacman ...

I saw confusion in DLH's eyes in his fights against Mosley, Pac and Hopkins.

Fighters are human .. and some show more emotion than others ...

Not trying to pull a card or anything but when someone hits you the face and pain shoots through you ... emotion reacts on your face.

Like I said if you think that way ... yeah cool ... no fighter is perfect.




Fitz
A thread about a confused Mosley look.

laugh.gif
D-MARV
To be honest with you guys... Shane Mosley just doesn't seem very bright. I don't think it's confusion it's just him. Listen to his interviews... it seems as if he has a hard time expressing how he really feels, Almost like it's a stuggle for him to push words out. He can fight his ass off but he's no Einstein.
Fitz
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 29 2010, 09:02 PM) *
To be honest with you guys... Shane Mosley just doesn't seem very bright. I don't think it's confusion it's just him. Listen to his interviews... it seems as if he has a hard time expressing how he really feels, Almost like it's a stuggle for him to push words out. He can fight his ass off but he's no Einstein.


Haven't noticed, but if you are right they should have titled the fight something along the lines of "battle of the dumb cunts".

Mayweather is also one of the dumber fighters out today. He can't get the right words out, stutters and also seems to have a hard time expressing himself. They may be a perfect fit. Both dumb.
King Eugene
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 29 2010, 07:31 AM) *
Haven't noticed, but if you are right they should have titled the fight something along the lines of "battle of the dumb cunts".

Mayweather is also one of the dumber fighters out today. He can't get the right words out, stutters and also seems to have a hard time expressing himself. They may be a perfect fit. Both dumb.

but one is smart enough to know how to make a heap more money than the other dntknw.gif

I didn't graduate HS but I can count some Money - Mayweather

laugh.gif
D-MARV
I think Floyd's insecurities effects his speech. LOL
Snoop
Mayweather wouldn't be where he is if he was dumb IMO.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Snoop @ Apr 29 2010, 10:05 AM) *
Mayweather wouldn't be where he is if he was dumb IMO.

Agreed
TRU
QUOTE (enigma1969 @ Apr 29 2010, 05:39 AM) *
Tru -

Man, I can sit back and pick out confusion in the face of EVERY fighter in the game!

From Ali, Trinidad, Mayweather, Forrest, Hopkins, Roy Jones, Hagler, Hearns, Pacman ...

I saw confusion in DLH's eyes in his fights against Mosley, Pac and Hopkins.

Fighters are human .. and some show more emotion than others ...

Not trying to pull a card or anything but when someone hits you the face and pain shoots through you ... emotion reacts on your face.

Like I said if you think that way ... yeah cool ... no fighter is perfect.


Nice way to avoid a simple yes or no question.
neophyte7
Mosley in many fights shows the body language of a loser in between rounds. He often is too nice and likes to hit gloves with his opponent at every opportunity. The Margarito fight was the most focused and killer calculating I have ever seen shane. But this is not one dimensional cheating Margarito who resembled a punching bag that night. Also, Margarito was never a killer puncher--- that is why he started cheating--- Margarito did not force Mosley to make any adjustments because his style and skills were inferior to Mosley's who had his way from the opening bell...
Fitz
QUOTE (King Eugene @ Apr 29 2010, 10:27 PM) *
but one is smart enough to know how to make a heap more money than the other dntknw.gif

I didn't graduate HS but I can count some Money - Mayweather

laugh.gif


Tyson was smart enough to know how to make it. I think we need to wait, as you can judge how smart one guy is when it comes to 'keeping' it. So far from what I have seen, Mayweather has been dumb on how he uses his money and reports back that up.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 29 2010, 06:31 AM) *
Haven't noticed, but if you are right they should have titled the fight something along the lines of "battle of the dumb cunts".

laugh.gif

One of the best comebacks I've heard in a while.

I think it's very interesting how loyalties have seemingly changed on this board lately.

Definitely a pro-PBF shift happening here the past week or so.

D-MARV
QUOTE (Sweetness @ Apr 29 2010, 08:35 PM) *
laugh.gif

One of the best comebacks I've heard in a while.

I think it's very interesting how loyalties have seemingly changed on this board lately.

Definitely a pro-PBF shift happening here the past week or so.



There's a good reason for that.
xxxxxx
QUOTE (Fitz @ Apr 29 2010, 06:31 AM) *
Haven't noticed, but if you are right they should have titled the fight something along the lines of "battle of the dumb cunts".

Mayweather is also one of the dumber fighters out today. He can't get the right words out, stutters and also seems to have a hard time expressing himself. They may be a perfect fit. Both dumb.



Battle of the dumb cunts?? Fitz you must have taken your potion again.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 29 2010, 07:45 PM) *
There's a good reason for that.

Which is?
Imperius3
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 29 2010, 06:02 AM) *
To be honest with you guys... Shane Mosley just doesn't seem very bright. I don't think it's confusion it's just him. Listen to his interviews... it seems as if he has a hard time expressing how he really feels, Almost like it's a stuggle for him to push words out. He can fight his ass off but he's no Einstein.


I actually think Mosley is very well-spoken most of the time. I consider him to be one of the smarter boxers out there.
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