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TRU
Admin Notes: Updated/ changed topic to steer discussion toward Saturday's fight. The OP's comment on the amount of clinching allowed by Bayless for the Hatton-Malinaggi fight is indicated below instead of in the topic.


He allowed 85 clinches in the Hatton-Malinaggi fight?


The 85 is after six rounds of "action" not the entire fight.

Mosley can use this same strategy to possibly steal moments against Floyd if Bayless doesn't warn or deduct points.

Funny how we have to calculate illegal and miserable tactics when breaking down a super-fight.
KookedKrack


Because this couldn't go in ANY of the Floyd Mosley threads right?
JD
I think how Bayless approaches the fight will make a big difference in how the action plays out.

He tends to let fighters do their thing, though at some point it would have limitations...at least I would think.
TRU
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 29 2010, 02:06 PM) *
I think how Bayless approaches the fight will make a big difference in how the action plays out.

He tends to let fighters do their thing, though at some point it would have limitations...at least I would think.


I completely agree.

Depends on how the camps push their agendas I suppose.

Bayless will have his hands full on Saturday and unfortunately will probably be criticized heavily after the fight.
JD
Both fighters have their way of bending the rules.

Mayweather's use of elbows to create distance, and Mosley's use of holding to create an opponent that stands still...if I were a betting man, I would be apt to think that Naaz will be the first one to get in KB's ear before the fight to make sure he warns Floyd if he uses his elbows on the inside.

But again, I am not so sure it all matters because Mosley is not all that prolific of an infighter as it is.
TRU
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 29 2010, 02:17 PM) *
Both fighters have their way of bending the rules.

Mayweather's use of elbows to create distance, and Mosley's use of holding to create an opponent that stands still...if I were a betting man, I would be apt to think that Naaz will be the first one to get in KB's ear before the fight to make sure he warns Floyd if he uses his elbows on the inside.

But again, I am not so sure it all matters because Mosley is not all that prolific of an infighter as it is.


Biggest difference is that Floyd can be effective from the outside without using the elbow to create distance.

Shane's method of bending the rules is intertwined with his effectiveness in totality.
JD
I agree...and if Floyd were not a moving target, or could be caught by shots that have some loop in them from a conventional stance, I would think that Mosley could be effective at distance, but that is not the case.

Mosley will have to make the most of it when Floyd goes to the ropes.
TRU
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 29 2010, 02:25 PM) *
I agree...and if Floyd were not a moving target, or could be caught by shots that have some loop in them from a conventional stance, I would think that Mosley could be effective at distance, but that is not the case.

Mosley will have to make the most of it when Floyd goes to the ropes.


The goal for Shane should be 20 clinches per round... stall the fight, get off when he can until Bayless deducts a point.
JD
The uglier fight, the better for Shane - because if he gets into a smooth, clean boxing match with Floyd, he will get roasted.
Jack 1000
However,

Taking the above points into consideration, I think Bayless is THE BEST referee, not only in Nevada, but one of the best in the world. He doesn't play favorites, lets the fighters fight, and intervenes only when necessary. My other choice would have been Tony Weeks. But look at the alternatives, because Nevada hasn't brought in an out of state Ref for years.

Jay Nady: A Mayweaather suck-up. In the dressing room of one of Floyd's fights, "It's such a great honor to be working your fight, Floyd." Along with about two other suck up comments. And Nady is too unpredictable on performance in the ring and stoppage. He's good more than he's bad. But when he's bad he's VERY bad.

Joe Cortez: Some of you may not remember, but about 15-20 years ago, Cortez was a great ref. Now, age is affecting his judgment, and I cannot find ONE person that has agreed with his judgment of DQ'ing Soto in the first Lorenzo fight off of that "love tap." That night has forever soiled his reputation. Joe's a little too "firm" and a little less "fair" in recent times.

Robert Byrd: No problems with him. He called a few fights too early when he was working on the California Commission, but since than is a good ref.

Vic Drachulich Too intrusive, and not experienced enough for a fight of this level. Gives a decent effort though.

In fact, if Mayweather-Pacquiao ever happens, based on what I see now, Bayless is my first choice for ref.

Jack
JD
I agree that Bayless is the best ref on the west coast, Smoger is the best on the east coast.

Drakulich I am ok with.

I think that instructions being read to the fighters will be very interesting in this one.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (KookedKrack @ Apr 29 2010, 01:02 PM) *


Because this couldn't go in ANY of the Floyd Mosley threads right?


A separate topic is OK here, because it brings up an important issue for the big fight. And this way, people don't have to look in the preview thread to see who the ref is. It's also not an overt duplication, so we'll allow it.

Jack

Administrator
TRU
Bayless and Smoger stand head and shoulders above the rest in my eyes.

I'm just saying... technically, Bayless could deduct a point from Shane for holding excessively and be completely in the right for doing so.

However, after seeing him work the Hatton-Malignaggi fight in which there were 85 clinches after 6 rounds, I doubt that he does.

It's up to Team Mayweather to make a real issue of this and make the fight MUCH easier for themselves in the process.

Not sure if they have the brains to do this.
Snoop
Bayless and Weeks are probably the best choices for a fight of this magnitude. Smoger woulda been good too. Just as long as it's not Nady, Cortez or Cole, then I'm good.
jlupi
I like bayless - he lets them fight and has a good eye for when a fight should be stopped. If my memory serves correct many of the clinches in that fight were initiated surprisingly by paulie trying to keep ricky off him
lloyd mayflower
QUOTE (jlupi @ Apr 29 2010, 08:08 PM) *
I like bayless - he lets them fight and has a good eye for when a fight should be stopped. If my memory serves correct many of the clinches in that fight were initiated surprisingly by paulie trying to keep ricky off him


I was going to point that out aswell, its a little different in that circumstance. TRU is implying that he will allow the clincher to clinch, but Paulie was supposedly the boxer and he done all the clinching. It was unexpected and probably why it was allowed to happen so much.
JD
I think the underlying point is that Bayless will let the fighters do what they want, by and large. But do we expect him to get on Mosley if he is employing a punch, grab, wrestle style that is proving effective - but also killing the fight?

TRU
QUOTE (JD @ Apr 29 2010, 03:14 PM) *
I think the underlying point is that Bayless will let the fighters do what they want, by and large. But do we expect him to get on Mosley if he is employing a punch, grab, wrestle style that is proving effective - but also killing the fight?


That is the variable that makes this fight competitive.
xxxxxx
I'm happy with the Kenny Bayless selection as referee in this Super Fight. I have confidence he will do a fine job.
Romulus9
Kenny Bayless is one of the best in the business right now, along with Tony Weeks. Excellent selection. Other than Weeks, there was no one else to even consider.

Considering all of the wrestling and inside 'stuff' that Shane will likely employ, I'd say he wishes he could have had...



Romulus9
In the same vein regarding officials for the fight, here are the records of the judges as they related to previous Mosley and Mayweather fights:


Dave Moretti:
Mosley TKO 6 Fernando Vargas II - 50-45 Mosley
Mosley UD 10 Jason Estrada - 99-91 Mosley
Mosley L UD 12 Winky Wright - 117-111 Wright
Mayweather UD 12 Juan Manuel Marquez - 119-108 Mayweather
Mayweather TKO 10 Ricky Hatton - 89-81 Mayweather
Mayweather UD 12 Zab Judah - 116-112 Mayweather
Mayweather TKO 6 Arturo Gatti - 60-52 Mayweather


Adalaide Byrd:
Mosley UD 12 Luis Collazo - 119-108 Mosley
Mosley TKO 6 Fernando Vargas II - 50-45 Mosley
No Mayweather fights.


Robert Hoyle:
No Mosley fights.
No Mayweather fights.


One judge with useful experience with the fighters. One judge with ZERO experience with either fighter. So that means that at least one judge, and perhaps two, have only EVER approached either fighter.... as a fan. Hmmm........

Interesting...
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
Bayless is a good choice. Like most I wouldn't have minded Smoger or Weeks easily the top 3. Both Nady and Cortez give me the shits. Bayless is pretty experienced and I'm sure he will allow both guys to get a little of their shadier stuff in. Crowd could play its part as well.

If Kenny feels the heat from the stands he may get in an break up those clinches a little earlier. I thought Cortez was affected by the crowd in the Hatton/Mayweather fight possibly going to Floyd's assistence a little too much when in all honesty Floyd looked pretty happy busting Ricky up on the inside.
PR316
Bayless is good. Him and Smoger are the best. Nady is good too but he's inconsistent and Cortez is just horrible.
Fitz
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 30 2010, 03:41 AM) *
Funny how I have to calculate illegal and miserable tactics when breaking down a super-fight.


fixed.
STEVENSKI
I would have preferred Vic myself but what they hey.
Method
There's Smoger & Bayless....


...and then there's everyone else.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Method @ Apr 30 2010, 06:56 AM) *
There's Smoger & Bayless....


...and then there's everyone else.

That's pretty much it... I love how Smoger will let someone fight until they nearly die.
Method
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 30 2010, 07:48 AM) *
That's pretty much it... I love how Smoger will let someone fight until they nearly die.

Yup.

Soger is my ATF.

Bayless is runner up.

Nady and Steele are all time worst. Cortez is coming on strong to join them.
D-MARV
QUOTE (Method @ Apr 30 2010, 02:06 PM) *
Yup.

Soger is my ATF.

Bayless is runner up.

Nady and Steele are all time worst. Cortez is coming on strong to join them.

Smoger is my fav too.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 29 2010, 12:41 PM) *
Admin Notes: Updated/ changed topic to steer discussion toward Saturday's fight. The OP's comment on the amount of clinching allowed by Bayless for the Hatton-Malinaggi fight is indicated below instead of in the topic.


He allowed 85 clinches in the Hatton-Malinaggi fight?


The 85 is after six rounds of "action" not the entire fight.

Mosley can use this same strategy to possibly steal moments against Floyd if Bayless doesn't warn or deduct points.

Funny how we have to calculate illegal and miserable tactics when breaking down a super-fight.

He didn't allow SHIT in this fight..

Weeks is the fuckin man!!I'd probably say he's my fav..Smoger is good too..The best ref of all time though is.......THE REF IN THE JOE LOUIS/BUDDY BAER 2 FIGHT..That guy was so into that fight..No ref ever counted better than that guy..The way he says 9 is crazy..hahahahaha..I can remember the first time I saw that fight I couldn't stop laughing when he'd be counting and following Buddy Baer around the ring counting in his face..hahaha..If that was me be counted out,I'd be pissed that guy was all in my face..hahaha..
TRU
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 2 2010, 11:58 PM) *
He didn't allow SHIT in this fight..

Weeks is the fuckin man!!I'd probably say he's my fav..Smoger is good too..The best ref of all time though is.......THE REF IN THE JOE LOUIS/BUDDY BAER 2 FIGHT..That guy was so into that fight..No ref ever counted better than that guy..The way he says 9 is crazy..hahahahaha..I can remember the first time I saw that fight I couldn't stop laughing when he'd be counting and following Buddy Baer around the ring counting in his face..hahaha..If that was me be counted out,I'd be pissed that guy was all in my face..hahaha..



Haha! Bayless called it very good and the fight played out as it should... PURELY.

On a PURE level, Mosley never belonged in the same zip code as Floyd.

On a bullshit Margarito-performance level, it could have been closer.

JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (TRU @ May 2 2010, 11:01 PM) *
Haha! Bayless called it very good and the fight played out as it should... PURELY.

On a PURE level, Mosley never belonged in the same zip code as Floyd.

On a bullshit Margarito-performance level, it could have been closer.

Margarito throws a lot of punches,thats all..It doesn't take the best guy to beat him..Margarito is kinda like Jirov..They rely only on offense and don't give a shit about defense..P4P Jirov is more extreme than Margarito..Jirov doesn't even have to wear juiced up wraps either..The shit Jirov has been put through in training is like nothing I've ever heard during a training camp..
TRU
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 3 2010, 12:12 AM) *
Margarito throws a lot of punches,thats all..It doesn't take the best guy to beat him..Margarito is kinda like Jirov..They rely only on offense and don't give a shit about defense..P4P Jirov is more extreme than Margarito..Jirov doesn't even have to wear juiced up wraps either..The shit Jirov has been put through in training is like nothing I've ever heard during a training camp..



I can see that.

What fight did you find more entertaining... Jirov-Toney or Margarito-Mosley?
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (TRU @ May 2 2010, 11:15 PM) *
I can see that.

What fight did you find more entertaining... Jirov-Toney or Margarito-Mosley?

Toney/Jirov..Margarito/Mosley was dope but Toney/Jirov had more skill involved..Toney is one of my favorite fighters and it's amazing to watch him counter punch someone who is throwing a lot of punches at him..
TRU
QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ May 3 2010, 01:53 AM) *
Toney/Jirov..Margarito/Mosley was dope but Toney/Jirov had more skill involved..Toney is one of my favorite fighters and it's amazing to watch him counter punch someone who is throwing a lot of punches at him..


Completely agree man. Toney-Jirov was an epic showcase of great pure boxing and fighting.

The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (D-MARV @ Apr 30 2010, 06:48 AM) *
That's pretty much it... I love how Smoger will let someone fight until they nearly die.


ha ha, i just read that. So fucking true, Smoger will just let dudes go 'Rocky' on each other until falls over.
The Ollie Reed Fan Club
QUOTE (TRU @ May 3 2010, 01:40 AM) *
Completely agree man. Toney-Jirov was an epic showcase of great pure boxing and fighting.


Not to mention a Platinum A+ p4p classic post-fight interview from James. "There's Chris Byrd!!" laugh.gif
neophyte7
bayless was frustrating as hell... pbf wass tyring to mix in more body work and was being physical with shane but bayless stepped in too much... he is good but too damned clean.. Smoger is the man
D-MARV
Bayless is good.

He let Mosley hold a lot but other than that he did a good job.
BGv2.0
I thought Bayless allowed PBF to hold Mosley's arms WAY TOO much.....

There were numerous occasions when in close where Floyd would hold onto one of Shanes arms....so much so that it actually frustrated Shane.

I thought he did a good job in regard to warning Shane about certain issues....but that holding the arm was excessive...and I never once saw him warn Floyd about it....

not sure if he just did not see it or what.
TRU
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ May 3 2010, 12:32 PM) *
I thought Bayless allowed PBF to hold Mosley's arms WAY TOO much.....

There were numerous occasions when in close where Floyd would hold onto one of Shanes arms....so much so that it actually frustrated Shane.

I thought he did a good job in regard to warning Shane about certain issues....but that holding the arm was excessive...and I never once saw him warn Floyd about it....

not sure if he just did not see it or what.


you're a moron if you think Floyd is the one that initiated the majority of the clinches... plain and VERY simple.
BGv2.0
QUOTE (TRU @ May 3 2010, 11:37 AM) *
you're a moron if you think Floyd is the one that initiated the majority of the clinches... plain and VERY simple.


You are a gotdamn moron for not reading what I typed...

Nowhere did I say anything about who initaited clinches....I was complaining about holding the arm after the clinch....

I don't give a shit who started a clinch....I'm comlplaining about what was taking place when they did...and I saw a hell of a lot of PBF holding Shane's arm while he hit....a LOT of it.

TRU
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ May 3 2010, 12:50 PM) *
You are a gotdamn moron for not reading what I typed...

Nowhere did I say anything about who initaited clinches....I was complaining about holding the arm after the clinch....

I don't give a shit who started a clinch....I'm comlplaining about what was taking place when they did...and I saw a hell of a lot of PBF holding Shane's arm while he hit....a LOT of it.


U have no clue about boxing period.
Method
The ONLY time I saw Mayweather try to initiate ANYTHING was the second round, when he held on for dear life.

Other than that I saw Mosley lunge in to hold PBF.

That said, Floyd did use the elbow to Mosley's neck a LOT, and it wasn't until late in the fight that Bayless said anything.

Would have had NO bearing on the outcome.

Saturday's performance by Bayless made me realize that Smoger REALLY IS the best ref in the sport.
TRU
QUOTE (Method @ May 3 2010, 01:05 PM) *
The ONLY time I saw Mayweather try to initiate ANYTHING was the second round, when he held on for dear life.

Other than that I saw Mosley lunge in to hold PBF.

That said, Floyd did use the elbow to Mosley's neck a LOT, and it wasn't until late in the fight that Bayless said anything.

Would have had NO bearing on the outcome.

Saturday's performance by Bayless made me realize that Smoger REALLY IS the best ref in the sport.


Smoger #1

Statue Cappuccino #2

Bayless #3

Keith Hughes #4
BGv2.0
QUOTE (TRU @ May 3 2010, 11:54 AM) *
U have no clue about boxing period.



I have a clue about newbie posters that run their mouth and then don't want to back it up with solid arguments....

I watched this thing on an AMC screen...there is noway in hell you are going to tell me my imagination created what I saw....

YES....Shane was coming in an starting the vast majority of the clinches....nowhere did I ever say he did not.

BUT...when they are in a clinch, instead of working their way out...PBF was holding one of shane's arms and doing work with the other....that's dirty shit...and I did not like it...BUT...more power to him if he can get away with it.

BUT....with the sheer amount of times I saw it Bayless should have seen it.
TRU
QUOTE (BGv2.0 @ May 3 2010, 01:22 PM) *
I have a clue about newbie posters that run their mouth and then don't want to back it up with solid arguments....

I watched this thing on an AMC screen...there is noway in hell you are going to tell me my imagination created what I saw....

YES....Shane was coming in an starting the vast majority of the clinches....nowhere did I ever say he did not.

BUT...when they are in a clinch, instead of working their way out...PBF was holding one of shane's arms and doing work with the other....that's dirty shit...and I did not like it...BUT...more power to him if he can get away with it.

BUT....with the sheer amount of times I saw it Bayless should have seen it.



Newbie posters... gotta luv it.

If Shane really wanted to fight, he would fight on the inside and not clinch like a bitch. Period point blank.
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ May 3 2010, 10:37 AM) *
bayless was frustrating as hell... pbf wass tyring to mix in more body work and was being physical with shane but bayless stepped in too much... he is good but too damned clean.. Smoger is the man

Agree..There were times in the fight where Bayless looked like he was coming in to get inbetween them and both Mosley and Floyd would stop for a second..Bayless should have known that in that fight,he really didn't need to get as close to them as he did..Bayless only let them work out of a clinch maybe 5 times AT MOST..Was Bayless a factor in the fight??NO,but he did start to annoy me at times..
JonnyBlaze
QUOTE (TRU @ May 3 2010, 01:40 AM) *
Completely agree man. Toney-Jirov was an epic showcase of great pure boxing and fighting.

Everytime I think of that fight I can visualize Toney rolling a right hand and coming back with his right hand,Archie Moore style..
Method
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